--they both should be. >> if you miss c-span's coverage, you can find it online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings and debates feature markers that guarded you to death guide you to highlights. these appear on the right-hand side of your screen. the timeline tool makes it easy

to get an idea of what was decided in washington. spend a few minutes on points of interest. viewers are familiar with frank l bain, he has a communication strategist joining us a day after the michigan presidential primary. he is -- is the wolverine state expected to be competitive in 2024. did we lose -- did we learn anything new? guest: yes we did. shakespeare said everything that is old is new and everything new is old. we will have a fascinating election campaign and i am concerned about the tone and demeanor and how we relate to each other. listening to c-span often in the mornings, and it is a little bit quieter in the mornings and the evenings. but three things that stand out to me.

number one, there is no hesitation or doubt whatsoever that it is going to be joe biden versus donald trump. any thoughts of someone coming in late is not going to happen. second, there is discontent on both sides. that nikki haley, the governor south carolina does not have a chance of taking the nomination and she is still getting a sizable boat -- vote and on the democrat side the fact that 100,000 people voted uncommitted as a way to discuss -- to show their displeasure with this biden is significant. the typical unclear vote is 25,000. third, i really do think that we are going to set yet another record for turnout in 2024 as america's -- americans want to have their voices heard. host: who should be more

concerned, joe biden or donald trump looking at nikki haley's almost 300,000 votes even though he won over -- by over 40%. caller: they both -- guest: they both should be. union households are you -- are losing republicans and that is important in a state like michigan. latino and hispanic voters are doing the same and it is possible that a republican could get 45 or 50% of the latino vote. on the democratic side, suburban voters and particularly women, particularly upper-middle-class do not like donald trump and they are moving towards the democrats and joe biden. we have the shifting going on that is very significant and happening in all of the swing states. and frankly, it is giving

viewers an idea of just how few votes will determine the election. there are only nine states that are truly up for grabs, and only about 5% is shifting back and forth. when you combine those two we are about to spend aliens of dollars in negative advertising for only 2% of americans. and frankly, i am concerned about the consequences. host: in advertising how much will that be age versus indictments and abortion versus border. are those of the messages that viewers should be repaired to hit on? guest: if i was taking notes but i am focused on the viewers. you just summarized it. you just summarized it in a way that they cannot do on cable news. you said in four seconds what takes them two minutes to say -- to save. host: you started by saying that

it is something you are concerned about and c-span viewers know that you are thin polling people for a long time. what is different in the division that you were talking about? guest: i will go into it if you have the slides to show viewers. host: sure. guest: we asked the question and i believe this is been the best question we have asked and maybe my career. i asked the american people do you feel invested in your country and its future? two thirds said yes, which is not a great number. one third really does not care what really happens to america and to the people around them. host: as you are explaining this and showing your slides, explain where they should be looking on the slide. you know them. do you consider yourself invested in america, 66% yes. democrats at 71% and republicans

at 71%. explain why that is? guest: no partisanship. if you are republican or democrat you are invested in your country. the people least likely to be invested are independents who have chosen to stay outside of the political process and outside the partisanship and in some cases because they reject republicans and democrats and in other cases they simply do not care. it is the bottom seven numbers that leumi away. and i literally, and i mean this and i saw the results come back and i started pacing when i had to write the analysis. 31% of americans and fewer among republicans believe that their country is invested in them in their future. and that is a complete rejection of the political process. a belief that the people in

washington are not listening and do not care, a sense of denial and betrayal, and it completely freaks me out to be honest. memes are going to be created, he is freaked out. host: what would you say to the viewers who say well americans throughout history have not felt that their country is invested in them. how different do you think those numbers are, that concerns you from 20 years ago, 60 years ago? guest: i believe that it is at an all-time high. this country did a vaccine that saved millions of lives. this country invested in education and roads, bridges and highways. some investments republicans like and some investments democrats liked.

every day this country asks of us are tax scholars -- dollars and gives us back hopefully and i believe how people feel that they are not getting their money's worth and they do not you like the government is efficient, effective, and accountable. but overall when i visit the lincoln memorial and ic the jefferson memorial and the washington monument and i think of how much this country has accomplished and truthfully it has nothing to do with government. it has to do to this commitment to the flag, the statue of liberty and the star string -- star-spangled banner, i teach at west point now. and these young men and women are the best that america has to offer -- to offer. and i believe that our country is invested in them and they may not do it well, as i said they might not do it efficiently.

but when the public says i do not believe it anymore and i do not accept it anymore, we are less likely to trust the media than ever before or politicians than ever before. we are least likely to have faith in the future than ever before, when i see these, it makes me concerned about the future and let us do the other two slides later in the interview to give people a reason to keep watching and keep engaging. host: let me invite the viewers to call in with frank no and he is with us for another half hour or so. republicans. 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. we will get to other two slides let us hear from bob out of nashville, tennessee. independent line to start. go ahead, bob. caller: i am calling to ask if he has some assigned to the

terrorist center relative to the uncommitted vote. now, how close do you think it is that israel will be held accountable for the terrorist, there part in the terror in the middle east, particularly directed to the people in the west bank, and the siege in gaza? it seems like congress is beholden to this idea that it is unconditional and israel is all good is when the opposite has been the truth. do you think accountability is coming? thank you? guest: i want to get to as many questions as possible. one of the things i teach my students and staff that you can ask the question incredibly powerfully and do not have to

re-ask. frankly, it is a mess. the middle east and what happened on october 7 is a crime against humanity. what is happening in gaza right now is horrific. we all see that. the question i ask is there a light at the end of the tunnel? is there way that these two could live together side-by-side, maybe not loving each other but at least accepting each other. the work that i try to do, this is not who i was 10 years ago. i was on the show as far back as money five years ago. i am trying to find the common ground, the threads that allow people to just accept each other and respect each other and ask -- and respects the right to live. on october 7 that did not happen. the level of crime and inhumanity, and what is happening in gaza today. i do not look away from it, we

have to see it. buildings destroyed and families ruined. what must be done to prevent that, and you are correct, caller. we have to do a better job at prevention. trying to hold people accountable now is good for them. it is essential. but seeking to prevent this from happening again, allowing israelis to live in peace and not invading and desecrating and committing the most unspeakable crimes has to happen so that we do not have a gaza, so we do not have a lebanon. by the way, just do not look at gaza. consider what is happening in lebanon, the hezbollah are firing missiles almost every night and killing israelis up north, and we will have the same situation if we do not do something about it. that is the purpose of politics and diplomacy. see a problem and to address it

before it becomes a crisis. host: louisville, kentucky. this is benny. democrat, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i will take you off speakerphone. it is a pleasure to talk to you. i appreciate you taking my call. my question is that you had mentioned earlier the stands about republicans and democrats and feeling that america is invested in them. but that number for republicans was substantially higher, almost double. i do feel like we are getting a lot of whining and you know, america does not care and they have given all the money to the immigrants. and i think that republicans in congress they painted this picture that the government is not working.

so, i guess, are they feeding the fire, or how do you see it, that was my question. guest: good for you. i want to hold both sides accountable. and everything that i do. but your question is a good one. and the answer has to be yes. are they seeking to find a solution to the border or are they playing politics. and that border crisis is a problem. frankly, it was not a problem under donald trump and a nightmare under joe biden. i will say that. i will also say that the members of congress had the opportunity to pass legislation to address it and they have chosen not to do it. and that is a problem for republicans. we need to sit them down at the same time. the problem was not nearly bad under trump and worse hunter biden but republicans are not solving it.

if you could bring up that slide, it was page 77, the pie chart because to the caller's point. we feel more desired -- more divided now. 80% of americans feel polarized than ever before. if you look in the corner i broke it down by age. over 90% of people over age 65, the typical viewers of this program feel like the divisions are the worst that they have ever been. remember, they lived through the rise of the 1960's, the protests of the vietnam war in the early 1970's, the oil embargoes and the reagan and carter campaigns of 1980. they have lived through all of these divisions and they specifically say it is worse right now. my message to all the callers

and to the washington politicians watching me right now is that up until now they have been able to play it anyway they want because we are a strong and healthy democracy. at this moment in 2024, we are so divided that if we continue to act the way we have acted over the last few years, it is possible. i never would have said this, but it is possible that we could lose the democracy right now. we are so angry with the other side that we do not seek to listen and to learn, and the data from the national governor's association poll. c-span covered it last saturday. it is governors from both sides. it is callers from both sides and it is me as a former political consultant. we have to take responsibility and we cannot make the situation any worse.

right now we are on that line. and if we get any worse, the west point cadets when you run into them in the airport, explained to them how you are deborah. thus jeopardizing the future of the democracy and you cannot do that. we have to stop. host: the presentation to the governors and the slides point to the portions of the country being pulled apart, what are the portions bringing them together. guest: clearly it is here at west point and education itself. i will give you two specific solutions. number one is education. the more that we know and the more knowledgeable we are the less likely we will be angry because the more likely we will understand and appreciate the other side, point number one. point number two, the communication that elected officials deliver should be, and this is something called the dignity index.

so it was created by tim shriver and unite movement. we should reject communication that demonizes the other side. it is perfectly acceptable to disagree. in fact, there is nothing wrong with this agreement. we should embrace it. but how we disagree, do we simply think that you are wrong which is fine or do i think that you are evil which is not. we have to find a way to fix the education system and change the discourse at those two solutions to make a meaningful and measurable difference to the future of this country. host: from one frank in new york to another frank in new york. this is the republican line, good morning. caller: frank, this is frank from new york. i have been listening to your responses and they have been interesting and intelligent. i was an elected official for 20

years and never lost an election. always had both sides support, democrat, republican and conservative. what i think is not being said, quite frankly. i am 81 years old. i have never seen that the legacy media in all forms, and i know we like to claim that it simply came from the internet. all forms of media, magazines, radio and tv. it is incredible how they have deliberately divided our community. so, you can gain by dividing because then you can nip you late and get the 51 north 52%. they do not care if they are getting the other 20%. as long as they can get over 50%. dividing perpetuates the elites,

the people who gain the most. that is why they do not need the regular people, that is why trump is successful because he is saying it is all about the elites, the intelligentsia so to speak from the old european word we used to use. host: got your point. guest: that is a fair point. that is one of the things that i do when i present to "the new york times" or on cnn when i have the top -- the chance to talk to the "financial times." all of them have to say, the number one attribute that people think is missing by far is truth. not left-wing or right-wing truth, but truth, not joe biden or donald trump's truth but the truth. i think we'll have to see a role.

this -- what cp is what c-span did was they give democrats and republicans and independents a line. the problem is that that causes us to polarize. when we hear the democratic line republicans think i will not believe it. when we hear the republican line democrats to not out. i am glad that people listen for the entire show. i am glad that they hear both sides. but even that little effort to inform the listener of the perspective of the caller, that in itself polarizes. i have been on this passionate pursuit of the truth. a willingness to say to former president donald trump you do not have to talk that way, a willingness to say to current -- i am sorry. current president joe biden, the american do -- the american people do think you are too old. the willingness is to speak truth to power to save our

democracy. we do so not out of revenge or meanness, but out of the truth. we have to tell the truth. i appreciate the caller's respective. ohio, william. republican. caller: good morning. i wanted to say something about the border thing. a few years ago when president trump was in office a soldier was killed in south america or africa. we were working with that country to dustup the training camps of hezbollah. now people are coming through those countries to come back up through our border. so now you understand why people would be so polarized about that. with regard to the constitution of the united states. i -- we need to have the palestinian people and the israeli people sit down and try to work out a two state

solution, i think it would be sufficient. they would have to have a constitution that they would agree on and model it something similar to what we have here. the problem with the palestinian people is is that they are not trying to put hamas, the radicals, those hamas people out of their country. instead they put them in charge, which was a huge mistake. because that is just another terrorist organization. guest: the issue is that we have to be careful. demonizing the people versus holding the governments responsible. hamas is radical, it does not just leave about laminating israel it talks about killing jews, which is a fact. you can look that up. but it is not the people -- sorry. this is what happens when you start to get old. and you get up at 8:00 a.m.. you have to have something to

negotiate with. and frankly, the israelis are not eager, the israeli people are still buried. but with so many hostages and so many people knowing someone who is still a hostage in gaza, they are not eager to negotiate. with israel continuing to attack in gaza the people in gaza are not eager to negotiate. we are not in a position where both sides will sit down and have an honest and open or not -- open-minded and free-flowing conversation about how to solve it. there have been attempts again and again over the last 30 years. when barkat was in charge of the palestinians. you have to have people willing to negotiate.

you have to have people who have the best interest of their populations at heart. and arguably that is not the case at this point. and until that is the case, it will continue to be a conflict. and i want to do something helpful in this. i am asking listeners right now to pay attention to what is happening up north. because whatever missiles and whatever happens in gaza coming over the israeli border, what is happening in the north is more significant. there is even more weaponry and more civilians. and i am praying, literally that it does not erupt. but as we look at gaza, let us also focus on preventing a conflict up north to remove the offensive missiles that hezbollah has, and to communicate to them that moral community will not embrace

anything that they might do because that is how you get a war. that is how you get the kind of conflict that sucks the united states in. i will say to all of you it is interesting that there has not been a single comment about china and yes this goes back and forth and there has not been a single conversation about russia and ukraine. it is right that we are focused on what is happening in the middle east, but we cannot just focus on that and ignore everything else that is happening over there or over here in america. host: about 15 moment -- 15 minutes. continue to call in on the phone lines as usual. you mentioned honest and free-flowing conversations. i want to bring that back to the united states. one of the things you have found on the impact of polarization, that we are censoring ourselves and that we are not having honest and free-flowing conversations. explain. guest: that is particularly true among young people.

we that they are the most tolerant generation ever and yet under age 30 you are more likely -- i am so worried -- i'm sorry about this. at the age of 30 you are more likely to cut out somebody in your life that you disagree politically and you are censoring yourself and not engage a political conversation because you are afraid of consequences. the one that are most tragic, you are most likely to cut off a family member because you and they disagree. a caller who i listen to before i came on, it was tragic, the idea that you cannot have an open, honest and free-flowing conversation with your parents and grandparents. the fact that husbands and wives let up because they disagree so much on politics. that is not america. that is not who we have been or

who we should be. and, i am going to point a light at this for the rest of my career in conversations like that when i am having here. and i am grateful. i do not mind people on the phones disagreeing with me. i want to hear that and i welcome that. and i will always treat you with respect because in the end not only are we speaking the truth, but we are seeking mutual respect and and open-mindedness that we did not have before. the governor of utah has done a brilliant job at focusing on this challenge. because in the end we can solve inflation and immigration and education. and we can solve and you factoring in all of these challenges if we are just open enough and open-minded enough to have these conversations and if we are not we cut people out and none of these challenges will be solved in the country will

continue to sink deeper and deeper into this political morass. host: christopher, new york. line for democrats. good morning. caller: i want to say and talk about the intersection we are at in our evolution. i want to talk about it from a point of ascension. mankind has ascended to the point where industrial revolution, computer revolution, and now the space-age is bringing us forward. and i wanted to talk about the fact that in our evolution we have always used these -- the things that made us evolve like the whole food, shelter and clothing thing made us better but we had to fight for it so we became warriors. in the world we seem like we have become more like warrior nations and we weaponize everything from our schools to even the fetus. and it is getting to the point where we cannot do any other

way, but we can. i think it is a matter of looking at what are the common themes for us. the other thing is a police system. host: let me pause and let frank jump in. guest: because this thing is people. this gives us the ability to visit a museum, halfway across the globe. this gives us the chance to interact with virtually every human being at an affordable rate. when i was a kid i had to book a phone call to call my parents at, home and it cost $30 and i had to get on off quickly. it now a dixie your chip -- it a ddicts children and grandchildren and this spreads falsehoods. it is your parents if you are watching me right now and your kids do not listen to you and they do not want to engage you, and they seem to be spending

their entire life on their phone, take it away. the way that we address so many of these challenges right now is for parents to assert responsibilities. and their control. there should not be a device that disconnects us, should baa device -- be a device that allows us to do things that we had never been before. if you allow your kids on social media for three hours or four hours or tiktok. tiktok's nest -- not just a disease but it is toxic and it is destroying the ability for us to have conversations. in the last 45 minutes, to really engage in these debates as we are doing right now in this morning. if you allow your child to get addicted it is not your child's fault but your own. grow up and take the phone away and do not let your kids use it at school or use them in place of education.

using this to google or bing something is a good use of technology. using it to spread hate and division on social media is the bad use. host: staying in the empire state. pat in new york. caller: i want to tell the gentleman that we lost democracy a long time ago. john adams said that the two party system was the worst thing that could happen to the country when they are set up against each other into a conflict which is the only thing we concentrate on, not the issues. the people are not educated on the issues and people cannot participate on the issues. we have the tools to do that and we can go on c-span and look at the bills raised and we can vote instead of having these people who do not represent us. and what is happening -- which is to say what is happening in

israel, it is a disgrace to the american flag and the honor of the united states and america. and to the people of this country who will take the blame for it. these foreigners think that we, the american people are the decision-makers the way that we are supposed to be. we the people. it does not work. these two guys going for the presidency, we always have two people, the same two people. out of 350 million people in this country, we are stuck with the same puppets. we want to know who the puppet masters are. host: that was pat. guest: ok, i appreciate that perspective you know what, ronald reagan was -- did not have a puppet master. he responded to the public. we were incredibly down and it looked like american democracy was failing. and in the eight years he gave us hope and opportunity, and a

belief in the future again. and so did barack obama. when he became president the idea that an african-american against all sorts of odds could rise to become president really gave this country hope. republicans and democrats. i know that half of you think that reagan is great and half of you hate him. have of you think barack obama is great and half of you hate him. that is ok. let us say it is half ok. hate is never acceptable. my issue right now, and i am hoping that there is a viable third party candidate to give us an alternative to these two individuals. i have never seen a candidate with more intent support, more loyalty and a willingness to literally walk through fire for him than trump support. and in joe biden's case, despite

the fact that he is 81 he will still be the democratic nominee. there is strong support for them. but for the first time since i have been polling, and that has gone back 38 years. two thirds of americans are looking for an alternative to the two major parties. somebody else that they will vote -- that they could vote for, not that they will. but they do want an alternative. we will see over the next few weeks if they will get that or not. host: do you have someone of who that could be? guest: i thought it could be joe manson -- joe manchin but he is not interested or that marilyn senator. i am thinking it could be senator cassidy of louisiana, a republican. or the tulsi gabbard, the former democratic congresswoman from hawaii or the former governor john huck stead from utah.

there is another name mentioned but he has said he is not interested. i am watching carefully. i believe we will get a name within the next 10 days, so we should talk about how viable the person is because once you get to 22% of the vote you start to win electoral votes. and that poses a different issue when they participate in the debates. they get aderholt funding. we could see a complete change in the two parties system 10 days for now and that is why am so excited. let's see what happens. host: why that time day timeframe frame? after super tuesday? guest: after super tuesday, they cannot be any down. there is no down. after super tuesday it will become impossible for some of the challenges for joe biden and donald trump.

and with that 70% who would rather not have those two candidates running, i believe that right after super tuesday we will know of an alternative, and i will be fascinated to know who that alternative is. host: one or two more phone calls. annapolis, maryland. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i had a quick comment about the quote that you started with which is a shakespeare quote which reminded me of a line from hamlet which reminded me to be someone or to do something as written by john boyd. based off of that, and based off of your experience of surveys, i am curious. you talk about two thirds of the nation feel like the government is not doing something for them. i am curious if you have discovered a correlation with the activities of individual citizens in the united states. are they actively doing something with their dedication to join the military or get

involved in their local community? is there a correlation between that number and that number of two thirds not feeling like the government is doing something for them? guest: that is the best question of this morning. and if you are involved in some sort of service, either the military or faith or charity, the more involved you are in the community the more positive you are. the happier you are with your family, the happier you are at work, your employment your career and where you live. there is a direct correlation with public service and public acceptance and the embracement of american democracy. i love that correlation because that is something that everyone can do. rather than complain, actually do something about it. frankly, there is no place in

america where i have seen more commitment to service, sacrifice, character and courage than where i am sitting right now in west point. they are raising, training, and setting out to the world the most incredible rate of future leaders and i wish that other universities had the same curriculum and the same positive impact that west point has. host: i looked it up while you are talking. 117 appearances on c-span over the years, 21 on this program dating back to 1994. we can show viewers and image of that 1994 visit to the washington journal. you mentioned how the phone lines are set up. if you do not mind holding up a mirror to this program, if you are trying to create a forum and have this conversation, final 45 seconds, how would you do it? guest: first of all, i have had a great experience with your hosts for years.

you are the best interviewer i have ever had. this will mean i will never be on the show again, i realize that. the questions that you asked, i believe that viewers have the right to context and the right to know where you are coming from and where do you support. but, i would be looking for ways to break it down in other ways because in the end if we only see things republican, independent and democrat, that makes us partisan. give me a shout a couple of months from now and allow me to think of the answer to say something intelligent and to continue this conversation because the viewers are awesome and i appreciate that there is no hate this morning. host: always appreciate you having you on and on x you can follow him @frankluntz >> c-span's washington journal, a forum involving you to discuss

issues in government, politics and public policy. thursday morning, political reporter discusses mitch mcconnell's plan to step down and denise gilman at the university of texas, codirector of immigration talks about executive action president biden is considering to address a migrant surge. we will discuss the latest on the government funding deadline, border security and aid to israel and ukraine with republican congressman andy and john larson. washington journal, jewel and live at 7:00 eastern thursday on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> the u.s. su