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from the nation's capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. , a lecturer in prison and jail innovation lab director at the university of texas at austin. good thank you so much for having me. host: can you talk about the prison and jail innovation lab? what you all do and how it came about? guest: the prison and jail innovation lab, pjil, is that the lbj school of public affairs at the university of texas. we work to improve correctional oversight and ensure the safety, health, and dignity of people in custody. we are a bridge between academic research, policy, and practice inds of issues.

you can go to pjil.org. host: since were operating from the same linkage can you describe the difference between prison and jail? guest: prisons are state run institutions for people who have been convicted of crimes and sentenced typically for longer than a year. they are operated by the state. they are large facilities. they tend to be in more rural parts of the state. jails are run most typically by counties, by local agencies. they include a number of different types of folks. when you hear about people arrested and booked and our pretrial, they are going to jails. people are intended to stay there for a short period of time. a matter of hours or usually not more than a year,

except in unusual circumstances. host: i'm looking at a chart from the prison policy initiative breaking down the number of people in state prisons versus local jails versus federal prisons and jails. the overwhelming number of incarcerated people being in the state prisons as oppod even within the local jails you have a big portion of those folks who are not convicted versus those who are convicted. whereas in the state prisons obviously folks have been convicted with a big chunk being violent offenders versus those with property cases or drug cases or public order. can you talk a little bit about the overall number of people within the u.s. jail and prison system and how that compares with the rest of the world? guest: let me make one point about that. although jails have fewer people

in them at any given time, because people turn over in jail all the time you have about 10 million people a year passing to the doors of jails. they are kind of underrecognized as a major part of our system. in fact, tum who are locked up --roughly 2 million people -- that dwarfs any other country in the world. roughly 25% of the incarcerated population in the world. only about 5% of the overall population. our incarceration rate in this country is far outpacing any other country. we have roughly 664 people per country -- per 100,000 locked up here. upcountry -- our country relies

heavily on incarceration. there are a lot of people everything you year who are affected by what happens inside our prisons and jails. host: to get a sense of the global comparison here is prison policy initiative looking at global incarceration rates. the united states is literally off the charts comd countries h the closest being the united kingdom with 129 people per 100,000 people. the united states over here at 664 people per 100,000 people. what are some of the biggest problems in the state and federal prison systems right now. guest: where to san issue that l institutions is the lack of transparency about what happens inside these places. prisons and jails are some the

most opaque institutions in society. we get very little data about what's happenthere is very litty for effective oversight where an outside party can go in and expect- inspect and find out what's happening inside and how people are being treated. from the information that does come out we know there are a issues. facilities all over the country are understaffed.

at a federal prison about an hour outside of boston a professional officer recently quit his job for a better offer with better pay. better offerg at the local grocy store. on the law enforcement side and in the new york city subway

there is advertising that corr the job while at the same time our officers after we implemented the bonus would be making about $90,000. the story is the same throughout the country. we need more resources to carry out our mission, implement our vision and restart goals. what o that? how much of it is a staffin■n issue? >> staffing is related to issues of --. if you don't have enough staff, you are not properly absorbed -- you may not get to them quickly enough if they are attempting suicide. but it is not everything, not the only explanation. there also needs to be appropriate protocols for screening people coming in making sure that people with

serious mental health conditions are not inside the prisons or jails more specifically where they don't belong. we knowhat putting people into solitary confinement is a huge risk factor. overuse of that kind of setting is very dangerous. how we treat people once they are identified as at risk of suicide matters. supervision and staffing absolutely a crisis and something that needs to be dealt with. people need to be appropriately trained by did is not the only explanation. >> we have central phone lines for this segment. we are doing regional as well as folks th h with the prison system. if you are in the eastern or central time zone that number is -- and in the mountain or pacific time zones -- and if you have experience with the prison

or jail system and have comments or questions for michelle, and of course you can reach us on social media or by text. let's stt with jean in delroy, ohio in the eastern time zone. go ahead. >> wanted her to maybe comment on a case that happened in the atlanta, georgia metro area where a mentally ill man was bitten by bedbugs, caught with no sheets. you can see that conduction's of the cell online. he died from his injuries. and it was like?a -- no big dea. and also the feeling in our country and the jokes made when a younger prisoner or any prisoner is sent to jail, that they are going to be sexually assaulted regularly and that is

part of their punishment. it is a bi this country and i would like her to comment on that also, please. details on the case that our caller was referencing. georgia's fulton county has reached a settlement with the family of the d cell in the county jail psychiatric ward and that was in augus■u2023.■5 thompson died in september 3 months after he was put into the atlantic jail. attorneys said they reached a settlement and his death gained public attention in april after there were photos released of his face and body covered in insects. an investigation was announced into jail conditions in august of last year. >> thank you so much for raising back.

that incident, that man in the fulton county jail, there is no excuse for anything like that. it was an absolute horror story. it is reflective of deep-seated problems in the fulton county jail. the lack of supervision and frankly the lack of caring. i am just -- just horrible. as for the comments that people make about sexual assault, that is thoroughly unacceptable under any circumstance. and unfortunately, in this country, there is a changing of where corrections professionals understand that this is unacceptable. we have the prison rape elimination actndards that apply to facilities around the country that have sought to change the way that we protect people inside so we ideif at riy assaulted, those at risk of being perpetrators, and there are protocols now on how to deal

with that. that said, there is far too much sexual assault going on inside our facilities. one example, the california, has become known as a rape club because of their sheer numbers of women being raped with impunity by staff. the warden, the chaplain and many staff there have been convicted of raping the women there. i cannot even imagine the horrors that those women experienced. >> jack is in hawaii in the mountain time zone. go ahead, jack. >> i would like to have -- i ha to ask michelle. i would like?ñ first talk about the conditions in el salvador. go on youtube and show a bit of

the conditions they have in el salvador. and those people that they rounded up down there are coming up here. we have presidents -- ms 13 people -- >> is the question for michelle related to the prisoner jail system specifically? >> i don't know about her thoughts about what el salvador is doing rounding up th gang members and they are coming across the border. >> do you have any thoughts on that? >> i would like to respond thise reference of country clubs. anyone that has ever spent time in prison or jail in america would never describe them as a couns in albany, georgia and has some experience with the prison system. can you tell us about ur

experience and then your question for michelle? >> i went to prison 1999. and the criminal justice system treated me as if i was guilty before it was proven. my only way back home from jail was to plead guilty because i was here without bond and i had never been locked up like that. ght now. how the criminal justice system has treated black men. it is easier to incarcerate him and not rehabilitate him.

's them for a lifetime -- and house them for a lifetime. and 20 years later, as i look back and see president joe biden wh committee in 1995 and how he said he had the agreement with black preachers because of the crack epidemic to justify what was done to broken. i'm so hurt. i am not a bad person. but aeaving a world behind worse than we found it and it is all because -- i just wanted to make that comment.

i'm so glad i had the call in. i started watching c-span way back in the early 80's. >> anthony, thank you so much for sharing that experience. i imagine you have heard stories like that before. >> there are pieces -- there are three pieces of what anthony said that is so important and one is highlighting the racial disparity in our prison system. it is undeniable and it runs deep. another issue has to do with how people do plead guilty when they are in conditions are so awful that anything they can do to get out of those conditions leads to them sometimes pleading guilty even if they are not. and the third point that he is getting at is the trauma to peon incarcerated. this has a lifelong affect on people and even when they get

out. rhonda is in jacksonville, north carolina and also has some experience with the prison system. >> i juswa say that i have my bachelors in criminal justice and a masters in counseling. i took a job at the prison as a secretary and then i got certified as a correctional officer because i wanted to work deeper with the inmates. and what i learned, i worked there for 2-3 years, but what i learned is there a spec that i have for the workers in these prison systems. idea the sacrifice and the long hours and what they do during the day and what they prevent and what theycounsel and how thy