■=■ our vi particularly the way in which it might undermine our ability to have a fully employed economy and might threaten our culture. >> i'm from st. louis, missouri and i would likù the preside4nt to take care and close the border because we are getting too many, illegals in here. it is getting overwhelming and a lot of crime. >> i'm aisha from new jersey. the thing i would like to see the president addresses anything related to gaza and palestine. that's very important right now and i see people who are ignorant and choosing to think about it one way. >> watch the state of the union address thursday at 8:00 p.m.ea, or online at c-span.org.

>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these televisionnd more, including sparklight. >> the greatest town is the town you call home. right now we are all faces it -- facing our greatest challenge. that's when sparklight is working around the clock to keep you updated. are doing our part so it's easier to do yours. >> sparklight supports c-span as a public service along with these other public service providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> now to a discussion on human rights advocacinthe internationy during russia's invasion of ukraine. this is about an hour.

■>éñ good afternoon, everyo. welcome to the human rights program at purdue's presentation of a talk on tn you hear me? my name is■e rebecca klein, i'm codirector of the interdisciplinary human rights program at purdue, housed in the college of liberal arts. we are dedicated to researching and teaching global human rights issues. our students come away with a deeper understanding of a human rights narratives that belongs to the world, it's politics, and ideas and to our own humanity. our program today commemorates the second anniversary of russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine on february 24, 2022.

dr. branco is here as a visiting scholar through produce ukrainian scholars initiative. sheh) is sp the pert -- ukrainian scholars initiative is the largest residential program of its kind launched by then president mitch daniels in march 2022 in response to the invasion. the initiative provides an opportunity for ukrainian scholars to continue academic pursuits. dr. branco was the first of the scholars to arrive here in the summer of 2022. we are grateful to the current purdue president for extending and the many university and community donors, faculty, and staff that have made the program possible. this afternoon, dr. branco will walk us through the

possibilities rights advocacy we wartime context. dr. branctrainer in the field of education, use, and culture with a focus on human rights and debt -- democratic citizenship. she studies at berlin free university before obtaining her phd in political■r■ science. in the past five years, she has participated in elaborating legal framework for ngo's on the implementation of new legal acts with a specific focus on the donbas region and southern ukraine. a question and answer session will follow the presentations. we will ask people who wish to have a question to stand where i'm standing now. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. i'm honored to know present dr.

branco -- borenko. [applause] >> thank you for coming. today, i want to to, orto indicn rights in ukraine and broader context in the communist war. three days■o ago, the big war in ukraine started three years ago. today we have commemoration of the killing of the last supporter for ukraine and justice in russia. now we als[eo see the last oppositional personality in russia, novell knee -- alexei

navalny. have different dimensions when we see you are invited and there's no space for negotiations. anyway, the sys human rights doesn't disappear, but te beginning of global changes forming international institutions and the significance of international criminal justice. ■çi will take about 50 minutes d then we will have a question and answer session. we can talk about what happens in the global context and also the continued war in ukraine.

the starting point, because many peop can ask why we pay more attention to this person as opposed to this person. from the point of view of human rights concepts, this who advocates for rights of other persons, they are more dangerous for the ruling if there is a dictatorship, and imprisoning, killing and torturing such people, it means that -- in the united nations, the definition of human rights defendants is very broad.

there has not been a convention -- there has been a convention adopted in 1998 indicating everyone has the right individually in association with others to promote for the r

ruia. we can go back to the soviet times, and russian intellectuals weqre really lost. ■&in 1917 in 1918, the country s looking at reforming human rights in the so■viet syste como fought for these people. there were many exchanges and declarations and tools that forct government to release political prisoners or at least recognize that it is not ok to imprison political opponents. in case of --

■cthe first one coming universality. claims to civil rights, right to association, freedom of speech. advocate for national identity to have the rights for equal status of national language, history, culture, and some nations also claimed they want to recognize that during soviet times, there were many partitions andminority groups. the university out -- hts is individual, it is recognized. and what happens if we start to talk about national rights or

rights of ethnic groups, it was very difficult. it was difficult because european countries and the usa, the soviet union started to collapse. many political leaders force the idea that the soviets wanted war . in the soviet union, there were some points which were very important to sethe context of democratization. it was abolishment of the constitution and the role of the communist party.

the second point which was very important for ukrainians, that men should have military service in ukraine. also it showed the idea of this and that ukrainians did not want to participate in other military conflicts that happened in the's -- south in middle asia. all of this should be set up in the sound -- soviet union, but very soon everyone understood that there would be no agreement anymore. the post-soviet. which i see as 1991 to 2004,

the were different reforms in diffencountries and each country moved in the direction rognize human rights and have more indicators of democracy institutions. for ukraine, it wathfirst time among lawyers and human rights activists, protecting the rights. it's important to this institutional framework that was set up and never discussed something ou be changed. the second point was safety and sovereignty. it resulted from negotiations about the future o -- there was also the consequences

of the chernobyl plant catastrophe in uai. all tse attempts to establish sereignty or independence. hkin 1995, ukraine agreed to remove weapons from this territory. after the war started, bill clinton thought it was maybe a mistake because ukraine destroyed a lot of weapons. ■■%to that time, it was very important to have guarantees for

the borders. ukraine was integral and safe withinhe bor■6de for a long time. there was a lot of imality but also a lot of freedom. it was less poverty, but also less freedom. like in other countries ithe post-soviet area, it was not important to have freedom of ee and free elections. is about media and

elections was ith so-called orange revolution enhe people demand to organize elections. the revolution was successful. the protesters reached the goal of he ink tt having new elections d elect a president. at the same time, ukraine launched negotiations with the europeannion and that means you also implement a lot of fos ind ma right the government was forced to do something but it was also like a

consensus to work more about social rights and groups wijbth collective rights, minorities, inclusion, disabilities and gender equality. now we see the difference. but after 2014, the new revolution happened which was the origin of this war. russia always tried to have influence in ukraine and until 2014, we had in russia a did take -- dictatorship and lack of

free elections. putin, the president of russia, he wanted to nominate -- his famous speech in conference in to have an influence on eastern europe. in november 2015, the governmenh the european union and russia declined the assignment for the european union. the protest started in the capital and other cities in the

protest was really violent. at the beginning, it was not understaable but in december, it was clear. what happened with human rights groups during the revolution, on the first stage is what is very typical of human rights activities. support for imprisoned activists, providing support -- documenting crimes against protesters, advocating the right networking of civil society. from a political point of view, it w different political groups. there were also discussions about peace and violence at this time.

if the revolution of dignity succeedsgroups have managed to come together. after revolution of dignity, after the changing of the political regime, russia invited time and there were two stages. first of all, annexation of the crimean peninsula in the south and second stage, it was supporting and managing different groups whondent repube east. the idea of russia was like now to connect east and sou andin te international human rights community was really undecided

about what's going on. as russian context because in russia, before the annexation of crimea, there was a consensus. it means all the liberals agreed to the annexation of crimea because putin said they can take elections and a leader supported different european countries on russian sanctions. and he was killed in 2015. so that time, there was nobody

in russian the political level able to put on the table ukrainian and russian relations, emigrated, and they left russia shut down after voting. there were two kinds of crimes. the persecution of political leaders and persecution of crimean and the national group of crimea.

that was also interesting that it was very difficult define who they are from the understanding of human rights. ukrainian human rights could have accepted them as political prisoners in russia, but they were kidnapped from the and it. the international community did not recognize the russian army was already in the donbas region . russia denied the presence in ukraine, and in fact there were discussions on the civil war or invasion of ukraine. third point, also more about justice, the cases of shooting

, the dignity protests should be finished and those people who committed the crimes should experience justice. these cases are still running now. there is a group of lawyers who still follow the criminal cases. there is a very big scale of different reforms because ukraine finally signed the european association agreement. this was on justice system, anticorruption, frameworks for freedom of speech, whom i -- minority groups, lgbtq rights, all the modern framework of human rights.

there were also some which wert so positively in the international community. it was legislation on the protection of the ukrainian language. there was some res that not all the rights of minorities were guaranteed and russia appealed that it damaged th russian language in ukraine. the seco framework was in' -- the removal of old glorification times. everything like the names of streets. there was specialon.

national hidays, education polies in schools, exhibitions, museums, everything. it was also very unacceptable for russia a when they spoke about the need, -- there were problems and controversies with political prisons. there's a big role especially internationally because if a person belongs to the right

view, the international community is more to the left, they have problems to recognize it. the same case happen with navalny. because he had connections with right-wing. this was also problematic, which people are imprisoned because they are radical, which because they are human rights defenders, and the meaning of human rht bee many radicals accepted the nee . they finally also received the status and recognition that if they be political prisoners.

the last point, which is still controveial now, it's aboutremol identity. now ter two years, the picture of the enemys very car and -- the ability to defend the old country. in soviet times, patriotism was now whom -- human rights defenders, the advocate for

everyone and it's e for everyono abdicates for peace and always appreciated nonviolence principle. this understanding that nonviolence doesn't work, deconstructing the whole community, the personal identity , the piece, but pieces justice. human rights now refers more to international criminal justice and focuses on documenting were crimes and cooperation with the state. it is not so easy for many human rights groups because for typical human rights groups, the state is the enemy. ■gthe state is something that as

to limit our rights, and we have to defend our rights. now the situation is we have to work with the state to defend our rights becausewants to remoe rights. the main controversy in the state is about the ratification of the status of the international criminal court because the state -- ukraine signed but did not ratify it. there are many arguments for this and still discussions. the last point is about information and basic liberty. now in fact you have limited

democracy and after two years it has a consequence. is it about the recovery of political rights, or sometimes we just don't because information is limited, political activities are limited. you have the whole generation who has not experienced political life on this ll-scale. it could be a challenge because er that there could be violence. something more.

[applause] >> this point, we will take questions and come down and ask your question over here so that we get it. maybe we can go back to your title slide. and then we will■ be able to see what the questions are. so the floor is open. >> thank you for the interesting presentation. of course i am familiar with the

situation, but i have extra questions. the main question, what current top■ organizations are watching for human rights in ukraine and what are their perspectives on the work conditions? >> some organizations work as ■coalitions and use specific protocols on the were crimes and these protocols are submitted to international criminal court. they work "igeer with the prosecution office and the international criminal court. there are manyabroad who also wn interviewing ukrainians who are refugees. so they claim to have more than 100,000 and they feel that

the case is sufficient to submit to the prosecution office or the international criminal court, they do it. you have work for maybe 50 years for sure because you know that the criminal cases from the in many cases, the prosecutors and special international criminal court secfq cases and start to work on it. but if you look for numbers, for 50 or 60 years for sure.

>> maybe i will ask a question while you're still thinking about your questions. i think a really important point that you make is this idea of peace is justice and that there's a kind of transfer in the we are imagining protests and human rights advocacy. i wonder if you can talk about that a little more. the different methods of advocating human rights during wartime. >> the first for many human rights groups is jttary. there are specific protocols and tools recognized on the united nations level and the council of europe and european countries. if you have tools and access to the institutions, you can submit

the situation with human rights in specific countries. there are also different tools coming from inte organizations, especially the united nations. they can nominate a special commissioner to monitoring for the countries theyy provide recommendations on how to proceed. in the united nations system, there's also that ngo's can provide official re some debateo is right and who can commit to that.

countries was under this for several years. ukraine never did like full democracy, it was always a transitional country. now documenting his cases, it's the ability of human gh■8ts defenders a ngos to document and to submit the case. it is about monitoring. we should change the situation. it can be proposals for legal frameworks. ñ%if this peaceful advocacy doesn' work, you connect with

more radical protests. it can be demonstrations and can be debates. the human rights defenders also connect with those groups. it happens not only in ukraine. case of nelson mandela is very interesting. he wanted to be peaceful, but at the fin speed -- stage, he moved. >> i've done some work in the nations specifically relating to the genocide in sri lanka and we found the united nations humans rights response to be very ineffective, similar with israel and palestine debate.

+othe you and high commissioner for human rights resigned in protest over the lack of a respns. how do you feel that these bodies like the united nations can shift towards radical and more direct arms of change maybe failed to act on the promises they make to the >> it is an interesting question because i think we are on the stage of experiencing global changes soon. ukrainian human rights defenders also emphasize that the united nations system should be reformed. a good example is also the human rights monitoring in russia. when the commissioner, he never na the names of putin, security

council. they cannot delegitimize the person. from another side, the international criminal court already issued the order to this person that he is guilty for somearthe united nations agencid humanitarian response, i think that it will be some reforms. the united nations will start some reforms with human rights and --maybe the united nations■e reminded of more than one issue. the meaning of the existence of other things are aside. in, it is more

international criminal court because they did not even accept what happened between 2014 and 2022. they did not accept political prisoners. they need to have russia as a legitimate entity to negotiate. >> i just wanted to ask if you kóthink -- a lot of people have been using social media as a form to do activism. do you think that is meaningful or impactful in any way in the actual crisis, or are they just doing it for show? >> i think digital activism is important.

the big question is if activists can see if technology is used as propaganda. usually these technologies are powerful and you cannot see it. i think the ukrainian war is a media war. russia exterminated manyonal gr. in the caucuses, in asia, but in the case of ukraine, the world witnessed this in real time. without social, the people could not accept what is going on. i t facebook is not dynamic.

m is about commerce and business. there are not so many spaces in fact after visit>iy9 him -- activism to reach the people. how do you te these people from the activists bubble to connect with another world? i think■■ that it makes sense bt it is very difficult now because you have this commercial approach youtube. for example, there are a lot of russian political migrants now, in the usa, israel, and europe and they have time to set up youtube channels. they have a time and they have audience because there's no free media in russia. just have some messages.

but those people who don't have access, don't have space to express. no blogger will talk about someone who is not known because there is the exchainof and so o. so i'm disappointed with social media, x, because twitter is now you don't know if it is ban some people or -- but it's important that i think iwiange l still reach the audience. even in 2014, i did social media

for my group. mmunication was very easy. now when you try to operate with the same resources, you see that you have only a bubble. you have no newcomers. only your stable group, but is difficult to spread out th >> in your opinion, what is the role of the united states■l witn human rights in the world, especially in the eu, and how important is the u.s. positively and negatively? what are the impact of the u.s.? >> i think the european human rights system is stronger becausof the heat -- human rights court. every state is obliged to follow the decision of the human rights

court. the united states did not signed to many things, for example the conventi ochild or the death pey issue. i think europe is stronger. the united states always has this experience of different wars and now the internal experience is about should we stay isolated or participate in international development? maybe people involved in global leadership should stand by it. but i think the united nations is m keeping security and having influence on the united nations and providing justice.

there is a crisis defining who we are. i have a feeling that we will experience global changes in the process of the evolution of the united states has already started. slowly, but. >> in this space, i will ask a question.speaker come talk at tn rights spring symposium who is from the group human rights first and talked about the role of the united states in termswof these weak points that we could point to, but she asked, what is the

alternative? what would be the alternative scenario to a strong position of the united states? if we see these changes more isolationism.e a so it's a question i'm posing that is based on that presentation. that was 2it was a while ago. >> i think for example, the case of guantanamo, it has an influence understanding what is going on. there are some cases where in europe, it is not so acceptable. but from another side, we see how weak europe is issues. for example, sanctions against russia are working very badly in europe because they have --

everyone can come to advocate. in the united states, there is a mechanism following the sanctions. on one side, you have a lack of understanding of humanity,ute ar mechanism for prevention in the crisis. with europe, it is very slowly. >> thank you for this presentation. you ma the point that when you look at ukraine, we see this moment by the mid to thousands where3@ economic prosperity goes up, but human rights adherence

starts to decline. i wonder if you can flush out the relationship between material conditions and economic prosperity and commitment to human rights. is there a relationship and how do we understa smart >> i think the main relationship is about corruption. one of the origins of where this happened was also corruption in politics and business. i think after 2014, there was more freedom in the individual economy and economic development . russia had a better level of economic development. many ukrainians went to work in russia for example. at the same time, you have a significant level of businesses

in ukraine. before 2014, someone can say it's mine. after 2014, this criminalization changed. there were different cases persecuting the people who were political and not too loyal. now we see in comparison to russia, we have crop -- progress but corruption is still corruption. the corruption issue also damaged the quality of life. bribery, no transparency, and everything. ízthe conservative, they experienced a level of radicalization and

developing new industries creat. so it was this experience. painful for the people. this russian model goes more with russia. ■pyou can launchusinesses, you don't have to connect powerful people to manage something. i would say many people who are refugees who experience occupations say that we didn't appreciate that there was a problem with economic freedom. ukraine also there was a word deuce -- a clash between power

and reach. now it is of course different but still the situation of the refugees, it is not as badqd expected, the politicization of quality-of-life. >> a quick follow-up from the last question but how much is the u.n. and european human rights groups dependent on the u.s. -- the siz of the u.s. military? the u.s. mill -- the military after that would be china and russia in terms of size. my question is how much is the u.n.e size of the u.s. military or is it not important?you >> mean united nad military supplies from united states? i think it's different.

i think it is bilateral agreements■b and for bilateral agreements, the united states doesn't need to have approval from the securityil or from the united nations. but there is no possibility to step up united nations groups■!e security council. but what happens now with weapons delivery, it is about bilateral agreements. they still have a monitoring for human rights in russia. i read the f strange. it seems better than it is in reality. russia participates in all the

activities. . russia has received money for ukrainian refugees for example. they cooperate with the red cross and there are like two different perspectives on it. >> int to outline that -- come here and tell about their cou■fntthere's a lon propaganda. ys like that. i have recently heard the

interview with the ukrainian writer and poet, who was a fulbright scholar in the usa, after e soviet union collapsed, and she said, at that time, people knew very little about ukraine, because mostly, the history was written by russians. and when you come to high school and take a textbook on the history of civilization, you will find russia very often. and maybe you won't find the word "ukraine" even once. so it is nice to have this event today. it hear ukrainian voices often in the

united state so that you know that our history has got long roots, so american citizens don 't ask question, when did ukraine appear? it was after the soviet union collapsed. so thank you for this event. >> as you push for peace in ukraine, what advice can you give to palestinians who wish to do the same? >> i think it's very difficult now, because of the relations with israel -- akr bomb russia,t

to, frankly, but there is no capacity. i read the human rights report from palestine. i important, if you work for human rights agencies, work for human rights, to have established standards. the main value of the united nations in palestine is they allowed hamas to build conflict. i also experienced this in ukraine. the united nations pursued russian interests and took money from russia.

it is to not collaborate with the people who want war. it is also a a mistake from ukraine [indce it is all contained. thinking of palestine■u, it is a peaceful people. some neighboring countries can receive refugees, with open borders. it is a problem that refugees have no open borders for other countries now. the european system also. it is a to think about.

--■ to think about. is having an understanding that life is important. it is having an understanding that life is important. >> are there any further questions? all right. in that case, then, thank yoand for your attention to all the questions people had. it was very useful. >> thank you. >> thank you all for coming. [applause]

anunr: she wrote, "i'm disappointed in the u.s. supremrt's decision stripping states -- of coloro should be able to bar insurrectionists from our valid. -- our ballot."

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