russia and china pose in these

areas. this is just over two hours >> good morning. the committee meets today to receive testimony from general anthony cotton, commander of u.s. strategic command or stratcom. and whiting, commander of u.s. spacecom or spacecom. gentlemen, thank you for your service to the nation and extend our thanks to the men and women who serve with you. as in the past we have asked the commanders the stratcom and until 2019. spacecom was a part of strategic command. mr. reed: as spacecom continues as an independent command, it's important to identify any gaps or seams that emerged during the transition. on the global stage,si reckless.

recent press reports state that russia is considering violating rnnal space treaties and endangering the global use of space for vital communications and sensing. further, putin has stab the strategy stability and arms control policies both our nations have respected for decades. over the past year,has suspended its participation in the star treaty and the comprehensive test ban treaty. russia continues to develop new ranging from multimegaton nuclear war tore paoedzos to cruise missiles. at the same time, china is advancing its missile capabilities. they are quickly expanding its pwaoeulding new air and sea nuclear platforms. and completing its nc-3. these developments may have stay in the indo-pacific and

america's commitment to our allies in the region. since we are now in a try lateral -- tri lateral era. general cotton, i would ask for your thoughts on how your command is handling this challenge and how you plan to adjust your structure to deter both russia and china while minimizing the potential for escalation. chair read: there has been in nonrecruited reach which means the program must undergo reviews and analysis for cost overruns. for this year 2024 ndaa require an assessment of the operational impacts of these acquisition delays and would ask for an update on the situation. general whiting, the threats to

the united states and allied space systems continue to increase. in ukraine, dominance in the electromagnetic spectrum plays a vital role in modern warfare. we have seen lge battlefield in ukraine incomparable due to g.p.s. denial for precision weapons, as well as the disabling of commercial slight systemso that both militaries use. china for its part has invested heavily in jamming the electronic and connect kwreubg technologies that could be used to disability our military and civilian lights. we are in a race to dominate this field because any future battle to control the spectrum and cripple the adversary's communications command and control. i would ask for your roles and vulnerabilities in these systems and lessons learned from the conflict in ukraine. space command has announced it's reached full operational capability. i remind you that does not mean

full commission readiness. as a warmain, space requires new battle management cape inters, especially the ability to detect a threat in space and relay that information to a weapons system. this management directs our ability to protect troops on the ground and spacecom must continue to integrate fully with the commanders. i hope you'll update us on this concept and what the committee can do. finally, i would note the missile defense mission was transferred from stratcom to spacecom. this mission set has never been more important for our troops around the world as we have seen threats increasing in the red sea, middle east, and ukraine. i would like to know how you are integrating missile defense into your command and what capabilities you need to protect our war fighters. thank you again to our witnesses for appearing today. i look forward to your testimony. i would note from my colleagues that t wlassified briefing immediately following this session in room 217 to

continue our discussion. let me recognize the ranking member. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. wicker: thank you to the witnesses for their service. senator wicker: last year's strategic posture commission issued a report that was disquieting. its conclusion was that the united states must fundamentally update our nuclear and space programs if we have any hope of countering growing threats from russ a unfortunately, the current administration has naively maintained the status quo. i am choosing my words carefully. in making th the united states s stayed complacent, russia and china have advanced by leaps and bounds in their nuclear and space programs. as we third year of putin's war against ukraine, russia remains a major strategic

threat to the united states. moscow owns the world's largest, most modern nuclear arsenal giving it a 10 to one advantage over the united states in tactical nuclear weapons. has aw weapons unlike anything in the u.s. inventory. it stocks nuclear powered transoceanic, autonomous torpedoes and intercontinental cruise missiles against such weapons we are currently defenseless. as bad as this sounds, china is rapidly becoming an even greater threat. beijing is phodending and expanding its nuclear forces at breakneck speed. it will likely outpace the united states in the earlyy it d an operational strategic triade of nuclear missiles, bombers, and submarines. over the past three years china has tripled its arsenal and

pwaeult network larger than ours. the chinese have flown a missile that can drop nuclear warheads from orbit anywhere onert *et with virtually no warning. bothuslso openly developing and testing counter space capabilities. each country has used ken weapons -- kenetic weapons to owe phreut rate -- obliterate orbiting satellites. when this is■■ done the blasts scatter thousands of debris fragments, endangered hundreds of other satellites, and preview a frightening future. unfortunately, these aggressive actions only scratch the surface of their real capabilities. one would expect these threats to generate a sense of urgency in washington. today's nuclear and space danger should prompt us to reassess our assumption about the threat, environment, and realign our resources accordingly.

this is the unanimous recommendation of the bipartisan strategic posture commission. unanimous recommendation of this bipartisan commission. instead, we see more of the same. the current administration consistently delays nuclear and space modernization programs. it chooses to doddle in12ed of actively confront a pair of dire truths. the united states' nuclear capabilities are falling behind. and the future of war will extend to space. collaboration wh congress anduse that inaction with progress. we can start reclaiming lost ground by following the recommendations of the strategic posture commission. the unanimous recommendations of this bipartisan commission. weus the national security -- national nuclear security administration

restoration by basic industrial capabilities. of touch with reality. likewise we must make progress on the sentinal icbm and columbia submarine programs. they require sustained investment and innovation. but the benefit is worth the price tag and the elbow grease that it will require. the advances made by our adversaries demand vote defensive and o■mensive military solutions. i would like to hear from our witnesses about how this committee can help create a sense of urgency. when it comes ■' accelerating the modernization of our strategic arsenal and adapting our forces to the new threat environment. thank you, mr. chairman. chair reed: thank you, senator wicker. general cotton, your comments, please. general cotton: good morning, chairman reed, ranking member ad members of this committee. it is an honor to be here today alongside general whiting.

and a privilege to represent the service members and civilians of the united states strategic command. this is my second year appearing before you as a stratcom commander. and i'd like to thank this committee and congress for their support not only to national defense but to my portfolio. for the record. the most important message i want to deliver today is that the forces under my command ares and respond decisively should deter rents fail. no adversary should ever doubt our capa today. as a global war fighting command, stratcom sets missions across the gold as the ultimate guarantor of national alleyed security. our forces and capabilities underpin and enable all other joint forces operations. he face of challenges unlike anything america has ever encountered. we are confronting not one but

two nuclear peers. the russian federation and the people's republic of china. this reality combined by missile developments in north korea, iran's nuclear ambitions, and the growingt1 relatio nations aw layers of complexity to our strategic cal includes -- cal includes. it -- calculus. it raises possibilities of simultaneous conflict with multiple nuclear --adversaries. projections indicate the p.r.c.'s nuclear arsenal wldmat0 warheads by 2030. as russia's unprovoked invasion of ukraine enters the thir year, its reliance on nuclear forces increases as its conventional forces adrift. beyond russia's traditional

strategic triad, it is expanding and modernizing nuclear options not covered by international arms treaties. last friday, president putin stated that 95% of russia's strategic nuclear forces have been modernized. in short, our competitors are improving their position against the united states and its allies in multiple domains. far exceeding the pace we have seen just a few years ago. while our legacy systems continue to hold potential adversaries at risk,t absolutele to -- at speed with the modernization of our nuclear triade. including land-based icbm's, the b-21, the b-52, the columbia class submarine, the nuclear sea launched cruise missile, and the nlrso. as well as numerous related

systems. while also focusing on the nc-3 enterprise with its upgrades and cybersecurity. i supporting these critical national security capabilities. their associated infrastructure, and the sustainment of legacy systems during the phodendization period -- modernization period. let me be clear, while modernization will continue to be the priority, stratcom force are ready to fight tonight. my components will always be ready to fight tonight. i thank you. and i look forward to your questis. you. chairman reed: thank you. general whiting, please. general whiting: chairman reed, rahm wicker, and members of the opportunity to testify. i'm pleased to joined by my long time friend general cotton. i'm honored to

18,000 professionals of the space command. our people are the most valuable asset of national space pow u.s. space command working with allies and partners has a moral responsibility to the joint force, the nation, and our allies to provide through all ls of conflict. since desert storm, the joint force has become reliant on these systems.to the assumption of always having access to space capabilities. this is why u.s. space command must protect and defend our space systems to ensure they are available in the face of the growing threats against us. inherent in this responsibility is our ability tojoint force frd attack. our principle strategic competitors, the people's republic of china anti-russian■ federation, now hold at risk the united states and alleyed space capabilities because they know our joint force relies on space

to fight t precisely, lethally, effectively, and efficiently. to put it plainly, the p.r.c.'s and russia's have transformed space into a contested war fighting domain. additionally, p. c.r. military operations in particular have iy space at all levels of warfare. and the people's liberation army is improving their force's3■2( lethality and effective tphr*es by leveraging space -- capabilities. as of jab, 2024- january, 2024, the p.r.c. more than tripled its presence since 2018. with the systems they have dramatically increased their ability to monitor, track, and target u.s. and alleyed forces both orbit. russia continues to develop, test, and demonstrate their counter space capabilities, despite not having achieved

their war aims from their invasion of ukraine. this ongoing ground war has revealed military reliance on space and space enabled capabilities. to be sure, russia's war in ukraine has established space as an indelible enabler of terrestrial warfare. to expand competitive advantage over p.p.r.c. and russia by leveraging every available asset, the rest of the joint force, allies, and partners, and u.s. industry and academia. the united states remains the best military space power in the world,ent our current architecture is opt tim mizeed for a benign space environment. environment we now find ourselves in, it is vital that u.s. space command is delivered improved capabilities and capacity. fully tested and with trained personnel by 2027. while a conflict in space is not inevitable, it would certainly be devastating andisrupt our

use of space for decades. so we must be ready if deterrence fails. simply put, the p.r.c. is movin. america must rapidly increase the timeliness, quality, and quantity of our critical national space and missile defense systems to match china's speed and maintain our advantage. with the u.s. space force, as well as the army, air force, navy,nd other combatant kpwapbdz commands and agencies, we have known -- specifically, u.s. space command's top five priority requirements that are key to delivering on our unified d plan responsibilities are, one, resilient and timely operational command and control. two, integrated space fires and protection. three, modernized agile electronic warfare architectures. four, enhanced battle space awareness for space warfare. fie

systems. absent commitment to long-term investment in these integrated requirements,sk seeding advantage to our principle strategic competitors in the space domain. with delivery of capability and capacity assured, u.s. space command will attain the required, enduring advantage over any adversary determined to conduct war in outer space. thus our homeland, protection of the joint force, and our allies. i am grateful for congress' support to u.s. space command and investmenerica's leadership. with your continued backing, the united states space command will ensure space remains safe, stable, and secure for all. chairman, i have submitted my statement for the record. i look forward to chairman reed: general cotton, what force structure changes you anticipate in order to maintain our deternce now that we have

a tri lateral nuclear competition with russia and china? can you comment on that. general cotton: chairman, that's the lemon i walked into when i took command of stratcom. as i said in the last hearing and my confirmation, that was one i was going to jump on as soon as i took command and took the flag. what we have done along with the comments of the ranking member in what we are seeinin strategic posture commission results, we have done work internal to stratcom to see what is going to be the requirements in regards to what we need as a fighting force. the n.p.r. actually gives me the opportunity to do just i am staying within the confines of the administration when the n.p.r. says what we want

is a triade, i absolutely agree with that notion that we must mata triade. i agree there is now time for us to look to see what do we do with the we currently have to ensure that i can cover not only one nucleae are having that conversation right now. and there is actually studies going on in which my teammates are part of at stratcom within the department of defense that goes after looking at the recommendations that the strategic posture commission, that validates many of the notions that stratcom came up with even before the release of the commission. chair reed: general whiting, you reached full operational capability in december.

which is welcome news, congratulations. however, the question is adequate readiness posture to support operational capabilities. they are two different topics. are there particular areas the commission should be aware of that must be enhanced? general whiting: my predecessors declared full operational capability as you noted. that was to say our headquarters now can function as the other combatant commands and execute our primary responsibilities as laid out in title x and the unified comman noted in the opeg statement our forces today are optimized for a benign space environment. the systemsthe requirements wery laid down during a time we didn't face the threats we see. we have to focus on making sure we havehe and defend our existing architectures, even as we make our current ones more resilient. and we have the systems o to protect thjo

space enabling capabilities we now see the p.r.c. developing for example. and then we have to have the testing capabilities to assure us those anti-training capabilities so our personnel have the reps and sets if you will be to be ready. that's where we need to fus is on continuing to deliver capabilities to allow us to operate in the contested domain. chair reed: thank you. general cotton, the program is encountering difficulties. the columbia is slowing down rather than speeding up. we have, i think, some good news with the b-21. the basic mission is to maintain a triade and notet less. can you comment, particularly with respect to the sentinal program in terms of what we hav.

i know they are evaluating it. general cotton: in regards to sentinal and where it stands i think i'll answer this way. there is no change in the requirements that i currently have on modernization of all three legs of the triade. that absolutely has to be done. i think what's really important for folks to understand is iproy combatant command that can't have a gap in my capabilities. because a ga capabilities, credibility as well as safe, secure, and effective weapons systems is key and foundna deterrence. as you talk about all three legs going io potentia must ensure that we never have a gap in the capabilities amongst those three legs of the triade.y

every single day to ensure that we don't create a gap in that mission set. whether it's land, sea, or air. chair reed: thank you. senator wicker, please. senator wicker: let's just follow up on that with regard to the triade, general cotton. i appreciate you meeting with u. we've got the land based. and the air. let's talk about sea based. your testimony points out that it involves the oo ssb fleet. and the trident 2 strategic weapon system, are we where we need to be on that? general cotton: all three legs

of the triade are past system life. the good news is the men and women that are maintaining those systems are doing an incredible job to do that. the problem we face and the problem i encounter every single day with legacy system is ensure i have the required numbers of ssbn's available as well as the required number of weapons that are available for the ssbn fleet. as we make the tnsition to the columbia class, as i mentioned to the chairman, what's going to be incredibly important, senator, is that we ensure that there is no gap between the transition of the ohio class weapons system to the columbia class weapons■ system. senator wicker: yes. at least with regard to this there is no talk -- there is no

feeling in your mind that we can die vest so we can later in-- divest so we can later invest.tt you're talking about. general cotton: that's correct. that's why i make that statement on ensuring that i don't create a gap as we do the transition from legacy to a modernized system. i will always have to be able to cover down the requirement with the legacy systems. senator wicker: on page 11 of your testimony, despite the fleet's accomplishments and ability to achieve the mission today, it faces continued sustainment challenges that could impact its availability until fully replaced by the columbia class in 2042. are we asking for enough resources for you to get where you need to get on time? general cotton: i don't know that necessarily

the issue here. i think what i really see is the ability for the industriabase produce and not drive the gaps. so as we look -- senator wicker: to the extent that we are -- we are proposing to appropriate some $3.4 for sul base, that will be helpful, will it not? general cotton: it will be. on the phodendization. moderniz. to your point, we need to ensure that the legacy systems have the sustainability available to them so can maintain the legacy systems as well until the new systems arrive. senator wicker: thank you very much.a÷ serious challenges in your bailiwick, i would say. general whiting, you talked about a vulnerability window on

page 3 of your testimony. there is a vulnerability window communicated by our competitors and highlighted as we watch conflict unfold in ukraine and israel.re we learning there? and state for our audience what the vulnerability window general whiting: ranking member, the vulnerability window is the fact our competitors, p.r.c. and russia, have invested in counter space capabilities having studied us for decades to hold at risk our ability to fight the way we would like. so now we have to our current space capabilities that provide satellite communications, positioning navigation and timing, those functions we have to make resile threats and provide protect and defend capability to help protect them. those investment have been made. but we need to make sure those

programs deliver. and that we continue to invest to assure that we can support the joint force with those kind of capabilities notice face of these threats. senator wicker: until they are delivered, there is a window of vulnerability whiting: that's c. senator wicker: are the resources to address this vulnerability window? general whiting: i think we laid out all the requirements we need. we know the programs we need. now we need to make sure those are delivering on time and pulling themçcj as -- much to te left they can. senator wicker: they need to be pulled to the left. i would like -- senator wicker: explain to people who aren't accustomed to washingtonese what pulling to the left means. general whiting: that means to deliver earlier than we expect. senator wicker: that is a very

important need, is it not? general whiting: i would like to have as much as i could right now. chair reed: senator kaine. our witnesses. general cotton, in your posture statement you mentioned continued congressional support is critical to overhauling the sub industrial base to advance the navy shipment efforts. and the execution of the submarine bill plan is national imperative. i'm following up on senator wicker's questions. i completely agree with this. especially given the additional commitments we have now tak oth. how critical are the submarine industrial base investments like those included in the supplemental to ensure that the5 columbia class submarines are delivered on time? general cotton: thank you for the question. i'd like to say thank you to -- know there was, even yesterday

in regards, many of the members that are before us today were part of the support in addressing the industrial base problem. the northwest it is a wicked problem -- in the northeast it is a wicked problem. the ability -- i do not have capacity to lose one leg of the triade. and the ssbn, and system is critical to the triade and my operational plans. and the forces that i must present to the commander in chief if warranted. critical. as i would state for the land-based leg as well as the air leg, absolutely critical that we continue to press and me said, if we can get things

earlier, that would be incredibly advantageous to us a. senator kaine: we did have a hearing yesterday on manpower issues generally. when you were asked a question about whether you needed more lee sources. you said it's not a resource problem. my colleague here said it's a welder problem. there is a manpower problem. we are experiencing it. australia is experiencing it. the u.k. we have to be very creative in addressing this manpower issue if we maintain and effective. you talked in your testimony here about the four allies, principally russia and the p.r.c., also in the nuclear space, iran and north korea, and the growingn them. do you see those relationships going in ways that really impact the stratcom domain? orrectivities in concert more in other

military demands? general cotton: i see it in my domain awell. rember, part of my portfolio is strategic deterrence, that includes nuclear. but even in a nuclear deter rent space, let's have a conversation in regards to the relationship that we see that transactional relationship between russia and the dprkf in different ways over the past eight months. we are looking at that differently on what that relationship isually -- what does dprk gain with that new relationship that they have with russia as an example. senato: general whiting, in your written testimony you highlighted collaboration with al least, and commercial stakeholders. a key advantage wn space. i was at wall kwrops -- wallops island recently. and a commercial provided rocket

lab to discuss government capabilities in this area. how are you thinking about the collaboration with the commercial space industry? general whiting: i think u.s. commercial space industry advant is an advantage for this nation, period. it is an advantage that is widening over our competitors. we■t absolutely need to continue to partner with u.s. commercial space industry to leverage the cost curves they are on, to leverage the speed which they are operating to take aantage of as much as of that capability as we k the space command is partnered with the space force as they look at new ways of witl industry such as the commercial augmentation space reserve they are looking to start next year. we are excited about those. senator kaine: i'll offer this question for the record. if in the course of us working on the ndaa this year there are any policies that you think we should embrace in the ndaa that

would enhance our ability to collaborate in the ways y that. with that i hand it back. chair reed: thank you very much. senator fischer, please. senator fischer: thank, mr. chairman. last october the bipartisan, bicameral congressional commission on the strategic posture of the united states released their final report on america's strategic posture. its findings were sobering. we face two major nuclear ad in history, we are woefully underprepared to address this future threat environment. in their report the endorsed 81 recommendations. if we can act upon most of these, the united states should retain the■,apability and the capacity to maintain a safe, reliable, effective, and credible rent -- deterrent throughout the next several decades. over the coming months i'm going

to be working with my colleagues on this committee to include many ofí8un in f.y. 2025 ndaa. general cotton, i appreciate our earlier conversations about this report and your very careful review and consideration of their findings and rmc&recommendations. do you agree with the commissioner's statement that, quote, the nuclear force modernization programs of record is although not sufficient to meet the new threats posed by russia and china, and that the elements of the completed on time, expedited wherever possible, and expanded as needed? general cotti do, senator. senator fischer: can you please provide the committee with your views on which of those economiesers' recommendations i' recommendations you think are

the most important or prioritizing? general cotton: thank you for the question. i was probably one of the first to receive the brief wheno the e commission. it validated many of the things strategic command in regards of what do we do with the current arsenal and the stockpile. i memorized what i would consider pages 48 and 49 of the commission, which has 81 recommendations. of those, i prioritized what i think should be things that we get after first. i do believe that we need to serious consideration in seeing what uploading and remerving the icpb looks like and what it takes to do that. i do believe that we need to have a conversation in regards

to how do we have -- because part of that report also says the importance of having a credible and effective conventional that is looking atd ensuring that we have the right long range standoff, conventional weapons a that can be placed on a bomber as an example. and then the look at what does allegs of the triade look like in regards of capacity and how can you expand capacity. how do you build the modernized force that has modularity and where we can always keep pace as opposed to the current system we have that it's hard to do that. senator senator kaine and i oven referred to the nc-3 of-r as the fourth leg of our nuclear triade. and the president's ability to command, control, and communicate with our nuclear forces, that's essential in

maintaining that credible nuclear deterrent we must have. if nc-3 fails, then the deterrent fails. we have previously importance of moving forward quickly with nc-3 modernization and building out that road m with a clear and achievable near and long-term goals. i appreciate you briefing our subcommittee on that earlier this week about your plan. but in this setting, can you please share with the committee the services, with the undersecretaries of acquisition and sustainment and research and engineering to integrate new technologies and new systems into that nc-3 architecture cot. one of the things that was first on the agenda for us was to

ensure as we articulate the mode nc-3 force we look at it in different bends. the first thing we must do to your point is ensure that the nc-3 system currently available to the president of the united states and to decisionmakers of the united states has the ability to fight through. so we wa sure we looked at systems today and ensure we are taking care of systems today. the other piece that we want to make sure we did is look at the midterm and, to your point, we have collaborated -- thank you for hosting us to present that, you and the senator for allowing us to present that to the subcommittee. and show the relationship that i have with a and s. our abgcy wigs and sustainment, dr. laplante, the increased relationship that i have with r

and e dr. heidi shoe. that was prior. and then the relationship that i have with our c.i.o., mr. sherman. because of that we are coalesce and be able to come up with a plan that's executable. we are able to brief that to the deputy defense last summer in which the service components were also in the room. now they have measured■ milestones to grade themselves against where that was missing in the past. we still have a lot of work to go. but i'm pleased with the work we have done so far. senator fischer: thank you. chair reed: senator king. senator king: we think about what's going on here in this room. this hearing is undoubtedly being watched in ale and beijin. general cotton, the focus of

this hearing will naturally be on gaps and work that's under progress and what the problems are. but i want you to restate what you stated in your opening testimony for the benefit of ou. you are ready to fight tonight with an awesome response to anyone who attack this is country, is that correct? general cotton: the men and women that represent the united states strategic command are ready to defend if strategic deterrence failure happens tonight. we are ready today. senator king: the capacity of the triade right now is at an actionable level. we are not -- i don't want anybody to get the impression wo are somehow crippled in terms of our nuclear deterrent. you have the forces you need to defend the country and also to impose unthinkable costs on a potential adversaries. general cotton: i do.r king: one

problems on the budget we have here, it always surprised me, we don't have a capital budget.tes government is a cash flow budget. and the recapitalization of the nuclear triade is a capital investment. we are talking 40 and 50-year assets. one of the problems we are facing in our budget is, it all comes out, it looks like it's in i call it the pig and the python. there is this bulk of nuclear phodendization that should be considered capital investment. i think that's important for people to realize when you look at the defense budget there is a piece of it that is really something that probably should have been done over the past 30 ■?o= years that we are trying to do in a hurry. is that your reading? general cotton: it is, sir. the way like to describe it is i am responsible for maintaining and the components under me are

responsible foring national systems on behalf of the president of the united states. senator king: general whiting, you talked about -- we have the bestpa and have for many, many years. that's the good news. the bad news is, the dependency that we have on space, which makes us vulnerable in terms of the relationship with these potential adversaries. think abt alternatives to space? for example, i understand recently they are now teach lest annapolis. we need to think how do we reduce our reliance on space assets given the development of anti-space capabilities of our adversaries. talk to me how we mitigate this risk. general whiting: we have gone to space because of the advantage it brings us. it allow us to operate globally

intetherred to --r king: we werd for years. general whiting: yes, sir. to your point, i know all the services are thinking abouis, we not available. in space command it's todoesn't. the service vs. to train what their secondary plans are and all of them have those plans in place. and to your those to their people. several of the services, such as the army, navy, and marines also have relatively small but dedicated cadres of space personnel to help their commanders understand the benefits and vulnerabilities of space so they can understand when those times might be they have to go to those secondary plans. senator king: i'm going to talk about those gaps i mentioned at the beginning that i don't want to overemphasize. you have partial responsibility for missile defense.

it bthat we have been very slow on the issue of directed energy. million missiles to knock down 200,000 or $300,000 drones. this should be a task for directed energy. i hope that's part defense, missile awareness, and all branches, not you necessarily, but all the branches should be working on two things. missile defensend hyper sonic defense. those are strategic game changers that i think we have been slow to develop. is directed energy going to be part of the future? general whiting: two weeks hunth the missile defense agency. we talked about directed energy. i know that is something they are looking a i agree with you. i think it needs to be part of the future. senator king: i want more than looking at. i want development and soon. i think we should be having a

the red sea right now. this is an opportunity to use that capacity. finally, i want to associate cor fischer, on nc-3. that is part of the triade. i congratulate you on the work you are doing. but urge you to accelerate and continue. the whole idea -- the cornerstone of the defense of this country is deterrence. the adversaries -- adversaries detect a weakness, we are vulnerable. i congratulate you, but want to prod you to keep going ernestly -- earnestly and accelerate the progress. chair reed: senator cotton. senator cotton: thank you for testimony and thanks to alt men and women who serve under you. general cotton, since deping took power over a decade ago,

china's nuclear paragraphsal has increased by more than 100%. by 2035 the department anticipates that china's nuclear arsenal will have increased byoe threat posed to the united states by china's rapidly growing nuclear arsenal? genera cotton: as my predecessor said, i love this term tpho* tkpweu -- terminology, the breakout that we saw and the advancements and how quickly the advancements that we are seeing on china to rapidly triade is breathtaking. senator cotton: unprecedented? the pace at whi they are expanding? general cotton: it is. senator cotton: your statement says they have a triade today. is that correct? that is correct. senator cotton: may not be the most cutting edge. they are working on stealth

general cotton: correct. senator cotton: do you think a nation that multiplies its nuclear arsenal as rapidly'ys china does, especially when governed by communists, is doing so with peaceful intent? deterrent strategy thatthe we used to hear that china unlinks themself with as far their -- that their strategic policy i find hard to believe that that can still be a policy with the way they are building out there. senator cotton: for years china had minimum deterrence, but they also are well-known for a policy called hide and bide, hide your strength and bide your time. do you think it's fair china is shedding that strategy? general cotton: senator, they are showing us their capability and how fast they can grow. senator cotton: they also have had a long declared, formal,

policy no first use. does it make sense to expand your nuclear program by00% and retain the no first use policy? general cotton: i go back to using that asng for a minimum deter strategy. that probably is in alignment. what we are seeing not so much.t of natural resources to expand by nuclear weapons if you plan to keep a no first use policy. wouldn't you general cotton: even though we haven't heard them say that. you are correct. senator cotton: it will shock everyone to hear the chinese of lying. not just about their nuclear weapons. the tibetans would probably have something to say about that. let's look what we are doing to counteract this threat. first, let's stay on the threat.

how does china's nuclear arsenal compare to ours today? general cotton: ■today we are still superior. but like i said, i think the reality is we are going to have to continue to modernize o current system. we are superior today. senator cotton: today. if china continues on the pace which the department projects by 2035, will they have achieved parity with the united states? general cotton: in the realm of their land basi yes. senator cotton: what if you combined the total forces of china and russia by 2035, wouldm those two countries combined have nuclear overmatch against the united states and the current pace? general cotton: weapons count would be larger than our weapons count. senator cotton: what we are tkoeg. is the b-21 moving quickly enough to meet your future

deterrent requirements? general cotton: the limited production rate of the b-21 is the only thing i wish weer. the fact that that is an incredible sixth generation platform all indications are that that weapons system is moving along at a great pace as far as delivery. . the ability for production. as a war fighters i'd love to have it. senator cotton: be nice to have more than 100? general cotton: yes, sir. senator cotton: let's look at, i guess, a first generation aircraft, the b-52. i think it's 79 years old now? general cotton: 70.■ senator cotton: almost as old as some senators. we often hear criticism like, well, we're flying aircraft that

are older than general cotton. we are flying aircraft generalsr flying. i'm of the, if it ain't broke, don't fix it philosophy. it's highly effective. why is it critical that the air force re-engine b-52 for your that question. it gets picked on quite a bit on its age but as we look at what the capacity and what the capable is of that weapons system that platform, it's amazing. and what that will be able to do for us, and i sai need to think about thible for it to carry lrso. carry lrso. platform

it's the platform that has a lot of mass as far as capability. i want it to have a long-range strike standoff samebility -- capability even greater than it has. senator accountton: if it's well-maintained, it seems like a big part our weapons. >> sen warren? senator warren: strategic command is responsible for strategic deterrence including nuclear weapons. we were already planning trillie and maintain those weapons over the next 30 years. now we are learning that the cost for those programs are going to be even higher than we anticipated. general cotton, i know you are not responsible for managing these programs, but we turn fort

military advice on what these programs will mean for our national security. tton, do you agree that decisions about how to build our nuclear posture should be based on theos information we have at the time? general cotton: senator, can you rephrase -- senator warren: should we base our decisions based ■+on accurate information we've got when we're making the decisions? kip absolutely. senator warren: ok, good. d.o.d. did motte do that for the sentinel program which will replace all land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles. they have already concluded that the base assumptions for the cost quote quote, ren't particularly valid.

when i requested d.o.d. contract with a respected group of outside experts in 2021 to determine the tding the minutem3 missile program, instead of buying expensive new weapons, i was told they didn't have that was not true. they just department want an honest assessment of the real risks of sentinel. and since then,he cost of the program has soared. we initially thought the price for sentinel would be about $95 billion. now the air force reports that it will be $132 billion. nearly 40% more. by law, that kind a mandatory f the program's viability. now i'm glad that this review is happening. but we need independent experts, people who will ask hard questions. we need to ask about the sentinel program, taking a look as yen cotton.

would you oppose an outside review of the sentinel program if it helps enhance our nationaw security? general cotton: i agree with ths in regards of where we are in replace ovment the minuteman program. as i said earlier in my opening comments, what i cannot endure as a combatant commander that has to provide for the commander in chief, i cannot endure having a gap or a drop in the reliability of a current platform we currently have as part of the triad. senator warren: i appreciate that. what i'm talking abo here, i want to make sure what we're replacing it with has been fully vetted and is the right direction for us to go. you know,■fbefore this

latest cost breach, there were bright blinking warnings that this program was not on track. schedule meant they were relying on immature technology which the g.a.o. warned at the time created additional risks of cost increases and schedule delays. now, best practices for budgeting these types of complex programs is to del called and integrated master schedule. analysis that's going to break down project steps, resources and budget needed to complete it. sort of budgeting 101. sentinel did not have that. cottop, you warned of the complexity of the sental program. i'm quoting you here. will challenge air force and industry partners in ways not seen for a generation. so let me ask, do you think it is important to have basic program management guardrails in place to help us prevent delays

abcost general cotton: senator the rest of the statement, you're absolutely right, i've said it numerous times, it is going to be a mega project we haven't seen since the early 1960's. i'm a taxpayer as well. and i want to that we're -- that one, i have a weapons system that can deliver the capabilities i need to deliver. i also need that the don't create a larger gap in having assessments that would drive us to now question one leg of the triad in regards of, how i can produce or have forces go to it. senator warren: i appreciate that, jeb, but we have to have a plan here that's actll■ly going to work we can't keep burning must be

and say at some point we hope to deliver this thing. i am very concerned that pentagon officials arelready saying, they're already saying, quote, they will make the trades it takes to keep the sentinel fm nervetion d. i'll be watching closely to see if the d.o.d. takes this review because of the cost overruns, i will be looking to see if they take this review seriously. or if it's just another paperwork exercise to justify throwing more money at more expensive nuclear programs. you. thank you, general. >> general, thank you, thank you both for your service your teams as well. we're talking about some of the

most stra teem i think weapon ours country has. while are critical, they're only effective because we have the nuclear deterrents in our strategic weapons system to support t general whiting, china and russia both understand how vital our space capabilities are to the joint force and they've been developing capabilities to counter our space assets for years. are we currently postured to win a conflict that begins in or extends into space? when we take a look at this right now, and i really appreciated senator king's comments with regard to the fact that we're ready to fight tonight, but c we win that battle? and what about five and 10 years from now on the current trajectories? wipe senator, thank you for the

question. today i'm completely clear in seeing we do have the world's capabilities. i will use the word general cotton used when we look at what china and russia are doing. they are moving breath takingly fast and so we must ensure that the investments that have been made and we thank the congress to -- those programs continue to execute and we continue to invest to make sure that we keep pace with that breathtaking pace. senator rounds: part of that, you provided, and you will provide an unfunded priorities list that likely will be sent to congress over the next month or so. if we were to fully fund that u.p.l. that unfunded priorities list, how would that impact your readiness in the near term?pe to be on --

general whiting: that will give us what we need in three, five and 10 years. senator rounds: if this policy is not changed how will it impact strategic deterrence? general whiting: senator, thank you for that question. you're refer -- general cotton: senator thank you for that question. you're referring to code 2244

alpha. senator rounds: i imagine you're waiting for that one or something. general cotton: you're right. we have been talking about it all morning. you know, you always have plans that show overlap between legacy systems and new modernized systems. and as i stated earlier, when it comes to strategic deterrence, credibility is foundational to that. and credibility is ensuring that the transition from legacy system, that there's no gap between the transition between legacy system and a modernized system. senator rounds: we're about modernizing significant portion of the triad right now. there'll be times when we need to have both system, the legacy and it may need to be for more than five years, correct? general cotton: that is correct. so that law would stipulate you+ wouldn't modernize dmoafns legacy system if you're within five years what you initially

saw as transition to the new system. that could troublesome. senator rounds: the sentinel program is critical to our deterrent capability, replacement to the minuteman three is foundational to the triad. senator rounds: can we afford to delay the implementation of the sentinel program? general cotton: we are late to need onrts program. senator rounds: what do you mean late to need? general cotton: i would not hava transition from legacy to modern systems -- to modern systems from legacy that are past their need. senator rounds: i don't think you can respond correctly aboutt goes up and the review is

completed this is not something we can sit back and take our time on. could you respondf chairman wou, senator rounds. the analysis and assessments have been done we need to make the decision on regards to what we wan to do as far as thenization of a very important leg of the triad and that's the land leg and the icbm of the system.■u senator rounds: thank you. >> senator hirono. senator hirono: thank you, mr. chairman. this is for -- well beth of you. both witnesses. the 2024ndaa directs the d.o.d. to develop a plan for the missile defense of hawaii and military construction the timely depliment of missile defense capabilities across all

locations in indo pacom. in december you have some 90 days or so to complete and provide the plan. how is the plan coming along for either one of you? whip i'll take that question. we took on responsibility for regional defense. at this time i'm not familiar with where that plan is. if i can take that question for the record i can get back to you with specific obs where that is. senator concerned over time about the missile defense of hawaii. i'd like you to contemplate whether we need to any particular risk from our nuclear competitors as you both have discussed before, we have this plan, missile defense plan, in place. as you know, we have a major mishap in hawaii which led to my

ongoing concerns about missile . for general whiting, the 2024 ndaa required a study on the space functions of the national guard which must include abenefit analysis for each of the futures of these units. the options are the creation of a space national guard, keeping the status quo, or transferring the space functions into the space force. general whiting, what is the current role of■9 the national guard in space? and how would you transfer the space function into the space force and what would you need if that is study? and the reason for the study was that there were some decision made as to what wld happen to national guard space, you could call it space units. there were some decisions made without this kind of plan or

study or cost benefit analysis that would be to the three options i mentioned. so what is being contemplated for the national guard space force? general whiting: senator, thank you for th perspective, we appreciate the great support we get from a number of states that have their guard unions have space missions. it's vital us that however those options are resolved, that we don't have an interruption to those missions. i would have to defer to the united states space force for specifics of what options are being analyzed and where they're headed but it's vital to us that we not have any interruption to those missions. senator hirono: as you are probably aware we have a space function in the national guard this hawaii, these are skilled people. i want to -- i think we need to make sure that whatever

assessment that takes all of an these issues in consideration. for yen white, previously space was only used by the government but s domain for new waves of commercial satellite, for broadband communications and remote whiti. space command specifically and appropriately lef ranling commercial space capabilities? general whiting: thank you for the question. i think u.s. commercial space industry is one of our absolute national advantages and we have leveraged th in the past. i think we can find even better and more innovative ways to leverage it going forward. u.s. commercial space industry is moving incrediblying their ln commercial space services over other countries. and so we want to make sure we are partnered with them■ç as tightly as possible. senator hirono: what protections

exist for■+6 satellite for physl or cyber attacks? general whiting: i do have responsibility to protect or defend commercial aspect as directed. as we work with commercial companies we have information sharing agreements with the companies that we are already contracted and we -- they actually sit with us at one of our operation centers in california, at the highest levels of intelligence, to know what those teats areati. and then we want to work with them as well to help them harden their cyber infrastructure so that they're not denied through the cyber domain because that would impact our ability to leverage their service. senator hirono: i think that aspect protections, the cyber domain, i have talked with private entities where they need to be sure they are up on what kind of protections they need put in place as they work with you to make sure that we are all on the same page in terms of

cyber security issues. thank you. >> thank you,tñ senator. >> generals, thank you for being here. i need more context on a couple i'll start with you, general cotton. in response to a general question from senator fisher you said something to the effect of adequate standoff capability. could you talk about that a little bit? are we short in that capacity particularly on the conventional weapons and if so do you have a solution in■ mind? general cotton: senator cramer, thank you for the question. i can get a little more detailed on what i meant by that. as we look at who our adversaries are, we would all

agree having standoff fires and long-range capabilities will be beneficial for us against the adversary. what i mean by that more specifically, and this is not a parochial statement, it's a matter of fact, is that i think the utilization of bombe and being able to have a bomber carry a long range strike weapon because range is dependent on size. it's fuel caci weapon. would be at very beneficial for us as a nation to have that typr force. notus weapons that could budes for myriad of weapons systems sy used in a conventional sense for the bomber that gives it incredible rainle.f an what that does for us is that actually makes it so it doesn't have to hit a tanker as often as

well. so -- and actually keep the air crew and the platform out of harm's way. senator cramer: thank you for that. something in response senator king, using his usual great illustrations of a pig and a python, i believe is referencinf capital budgeting in our system, transparency budgets are something that's always frustrated me on this committee. particularly with regards to my favorite, air force. you referenced the role of the -- of your■r command as national -- as a national role. understandably. united command. can you flesh that out a little bit for me as well? i have long been concerned that we're not adequately -- i don't want to say appropriate, but appropriating credit where credit is due and then cost where cost is due.

general cotton: thank you, senator cramer. i think there's a lot of times where there can be confusion even within a service component that they're advocating for a weaponsy that that is utilized in their operational domain. it absolutely is. but when it comes strategic deterrence weapons, and strategic deterrence platforms, i think that those are nional what i mean by that is that we are -- you know, we are doing the care and feeding on paf of thstely belong and i got it, all weapons systems belong to the president of the united states. but in particular when we talk about strategic deterrent weapons,t's much more than the columbia being part of the united states navy or the bomber states air force.t of the unit and i think there's probably room for conversation on how do we make that so we cannot have these conversations on funding.

senator cramer: that was therapeutic for me if silos within the same services arerx csed i feel better about my confusion now. i can't help buti there's a lack of space in your leadership chart. can you speak to that a little bit as i look at the two of youe history of both commands. general cotton: as u.c.p. ged we lost our space billetts and the yert of airmen who were space specific. i will tell you, my colleague here, genel have a joint force team that assists us. what i'm missing though is a space component officer, like a one-star general, that is a component linkage to the space

component. my componentkage with the air component, air force global strike command. i have a direct linkage with the naom joint force maritime command. i do not have a direct linkage. we are in the works though, thas general salter for example, to fill thatting we had here recently. what we want to do, you saw a lot of that was the space layer. how can you have, i want to have that is at a general officer level, to be able to articulate the requirements especially when comes to nc-3 if you will. senator cramer:e vulnerability - i'm over time but if you could

elaborate to that point? general whiting: it's important that we ensure that strategic command has all the insights they need as they rely on the space layer for early warning and protected communications. as general cotton noted, today u.s. space command provides a joint integrated space team in his headquarter they sit in omaha, planning and make sure that he has insight into what we're doing so we can best coordinate our plans together. >> senator, i did not realize you were in the room recognizing senator hirono. >> that's ok, i wasn't actually at my seat. i want to follow up on what senator cramer was asking about, standoff capability. general two years since russia's invaded ukraine, we've been forced to rethink our

nuclear posture and how our own deterrence works with growing nuclear capability of our adversaries. rejected a proposal to reopen bilateral nuclear arms control talks. thei rhetoric, along with chinese aggression, north korea's regular testing of ballistic missiles and those kind of capabilities,ly of enriched ura, this underscores the importance of having a strong deterrence ourselves. the lrso, long range standoff missile system, it's developed in tucson, arizona at raytheon. this will be a critical feature of our nuclear deterrence. the ability to deploy this missile is a powerful message to ourbeyond what senator cramer was asking about standoff more broadly, can you expand on the importance of the lrso to

our er deterrence and give any updates you have on its fielding? general cotton: thank you for the question. when we talk about the air leg of the triad, it comprises two of the tasks that are supposed to do. gravity bomb deployment and release, and the ability to have a long range standoff strike weapon. lrso is absolutely critical for my mission set long range standoff nuclear weapon. it will replace the outcome that is currently carry. from the reports that i'm receiving from the component is the -- raytheon is doing a great job manufacturing that weapon for us. once again just like evethin

else, i -- if i get it sooner than later, senator, that's good for us. as far as maintaining the -- senator kelly: is the i.o.c. of this public or something we have to talk about downstairs? general cotton: i would rather have that conversation with you downstairs. senator kelly: beyond lrso, what else do you think we could be doing to deter our adversaries we are currently not doing? general cotton: i think, earlier conversation on what do we look as far sizing of the current triad and what does that look like? it's in alignment with the steady results of the posture commission. it's also in alignment for the work that, to be frank, the pentagon is doing in response to the posture commission. it's work we're doing in stratcom. i can elaborate in incredible detail in the secure session to let you know the work we're

doing in that regard.lly: thank. thank you, general. general white, a different subject. the spice aims to see our -- secure our space industrial base including improving supply chains for crucial satellite components like tubes and traveling way tube amplifiers. in the united states here we face some area with limited domestic capabilities and also competition from china that's often hely subsidized. and this situation leads to supply chain risks for essential national security and commercial satellites. i've got an amendment to the defense bill to support the development of a competitive u.s. source for these components and i'm going to keep working on that this year. general, do you believe it's important for the department of defense ■to have reliable u.s. source for these critical satellite components to ensure quality, timely pricing and whak

do you see from having inadequate domestic supply chains for key satellite components. general whiting: thank you for the question, i think it's important we have robust supply chains from trusted sources in the united ss. don't have that,k the risk is that this widening lead that our commercial space industry has created for us, that might be stymied and that would give our competitors a chance to catch up we want to ensure that doesn't happen. senator kelly: traveling wave tubes and wave tube amplifiers are obscure companies, most folks haven't heard of them but they're important to us maintaininour ed in space technology. thank you. >> senator scott? >> senator scott: thank you, chairman. thank you both for being here. thank you for what you do. chairman whiting, can you tal

about the -- how much dependence our defense capabilities, our offensive capables are on our satellite systems? general whiting: yes, senator, thank you for the question. the army, navy, air force, marines are terrestrial forces if you will. are sized assuming they'll have access to spaceab that we've bee to reduce the number of force we have and can prosecute targets with fewer assets than decades ago. if■r we n't those space capabilities. if those forces don't have access to those space capabilities we don't have the force structure we need to fight without them. that's why we have to protect and defend against the threats arrayed against them. senator scott: how many are we relying on? general whiting: it's our satellite communications, global positioning system, intelligence

systems, weather systems, missile warning systems. it's a host of different capabilities we provide from space. senator scott: so if our adversary was able to demolish h debris? general whiting: almost certainly, yes, senator. senator scott: and if that debris wass floating out there, how much of our satellites one at risk because of just the debris hitting them? general whiting: that is a concern. it's why we monitor the 45,000 trackable objects on orbit to watch for potential conjunctions bris on orbit which wouldiferate increase the risk to our systems. senator scott: so if you were an adversary, wouldn't that be the cheapest thing to do? if you want to cripple our ability wouldn't the cheapest thing to do be to blow up 10 ort

there? general whiting: i don't know the cost of that but it would certainlyit would pollute the vn they're trying to operate in themselves because it's indiscriminate. it impact ours satellites, their satellites, other countries' satellites. it would be incredibly reckless baifor. senator scott:russia's forces. if you look at our forces as compared to russia's forces, how dependent are they on satellite systems as compared to us? general whiting: they are less dependent for the reason they are a continental power and expect to be able to run fiber and to and those kinds of things. they don't have the same global type military we do. they are less dependent. senator scott: how china? general whiting: they have replicated in many way what is we have done in space. as they try to push us out if the first island chain and

second island chain in the pacific they have gone to space for the advantage it brings. they are trying to replicate what we have done in the past. senator scott: if they were able to hamper our abilities, our satellite system, let's say china, only focused on taiwan, japan or well for sure korea, right? they need their satellite system to do anything with regard to korea, right? general whiting: senator, i think china, they are getting to the point where all of their forces are becoming space-enabled. so i think in any conflict they would be reliant on space capabilities. senator scott: only theer to pr, taiwan, japan, that's all they cared about, then they wouldn't need their space capability -- capabilities as much? general whiting: i think they would need those space capabilities because they're looking beyond those countries and looking at the u.s. and looking at where the u.s.

would be flowing forces from and that has required them to go to space. senator scott: how about iran? they don't need it. general whiting: iran is not a space-enabled military. senator scott: do they have any ability to impact us in space? general whiting: they have not t we are watching their space program and ballistic missile program and can only think about what they're thinking about for the future. senator scott: what about north korea? general whiting: they have demonstrated program that would have an -- that could have an effect on us they should not be launching into space because of u.n. resolutions that say they can't use missile technology for that. we have to keep and eye on what they're thinking about in the future.

senator scott: north korea probably doesn't need access to space. general whiting: they are not space-anibled today. senator scott: but south kree -- our troops in south korea need it? >> thank you both for your testimony today and for yr great service to our kun rit. i'm going to continue on thev electromagnet i think spectrum. yen whiting you indicated that elect ro maggette net i think operations are top priority. your forces amazing work at the air force base in my home state of nevada. but even with the efforts made so far, i am sure that there's probably more work to be done. so what actions do you need to take to ensure that the united states can deter, if needed, and defeat threats across the

electromagnet i think spectrum and how can we help with that? general cotton: senator, thank you for the question. thanks for acknowledging the incredible work that team is doing. i'd like to highlight some of that doing, and that includes the support to the yukon commander and what we're seeing in ukrainian efforts. them. july of last year is when we stood up, when i was given the responsibility on inso. as you've heard througut testimony today, electromagnetic spectrum is incredibly important for us. it is a domain■' was uncontested for us over the past

30 years. now that we have a fight, a potential fight with adversaries that, one understand that the domain we rely on, and two have the capability to do something to counter having dominance in that domain and spectrum, it's incredibly important and as we -- the lead component -- or combatt commd training, the proper live, virtual and collaborative training techniques, because as you know, some of what we want to be able to test and train to can be done in the live environment so we continue to work on how do we, i call the reps and sets to our men and womeinpbed forces. how do we give them the reps and sets in a virtual environment that shows all ranges of how they can contest that environment. senator rosen: my team will

follow up with you on that as we work on next year's ndaa. i'm going to move on to reps and sets and that's modeling simulation we have that for spice space too. general whiting i'm going to keep on that list for a bit. space delta one trains weapons officers, again at the air forc. these officers graduate from the pinnacle of training to prepare guardians for what they may need and more. il you may need, what you have now, the ability to model and simulate, how does this prepare your forces and what can we continue to do■y to give you that simulation you need because you may not be able to go up there? general whiting: thank you for the question. i know exactly the great work that happens aats stationed thea decade ago as vice commander of the warfare center vital capability. modeling and simulation is vital for us in space.

it's expensive for us to get there, we can't just launch all sorts of things just to do training, though there's aninee. modeling and simulation allow us to do multiple iterations of various activities and simulate the threats we now see arrayed against us so these weapons officers have the skills that when they go back to their operational squadrons they can share that among thee so that modeling and simulation is absolutely critical to us and we want to continue to grow that capability for all space forces because that will support space command as we move forward. senator rosen: we'll worng forw. speaking of space, i'm going to continue with you, general whiting. given the collaboration between japan and russia space activities that could challenge our u.s. security, can you elaborate a what's happening in iran given

their progress, how might additional sharing between the united states and our partners in the middle east, we know there's increasing channels going on there, the emerging threats, particularly the iranian threat. can you speak to that? general whiting: our relationships is one of our asymmetric advantages. we have shined a number of space situational awareness agreements as you allude to with over 30 countries. three of those are in the middle east re closely with the countries in the middle east it helps us to have a better understanding of what is going on in when we see potential bad actor acting we can call out that may haver. it builds a set of partnerships to deny those partnership countries like russia and iran. it's important for us that we continue to grow them. senator rosen: thank you,

senator schmidt: i think -- i believe this is one of the most important committees in the senate for a variety of reasons. certainly our role in advocating for the national defense is important. i think going back home and talking to constituents and having those conversations about what are the threats, hearing from them but also explaining the th up here. so my two questions are related to that. that would be more sort of conversational about maybe a question i would get from somebody at home that i'd like both of you to address first. nuclear modernization, the price tag of, you know, $2 trillion. potentially over 30 years. a numb s that. could both of you sort of address, you know, i think the perception is that the united states has right now all the nuclear weapons we need to blow up the world into oblivion a

thousand times over. right? so if you were trying to explain the importance of this modernization effort, how would each one of you describe that to folks back home? a -- specifically why it's important. general cotton: i'll start off, first i want to thank you, the men and women of tinker air force base and the work they're doing in tell the bomber being built out there for one leg of the triad is important. going back to your comment, i think the way we should be able to frame it is, one, it's in the a one-for-one. it's not one of these conversations wh have to have a one-for-one or overmatch or those type of things. as we already know, the russians have more weapons than we have today. but we absolutely hold them at

risk. so, so the way i would describe to people as you need to understand, you know, it's a -- it's a proposition in a cost analysis. i want to be able to deter because my adversary understands that the risk of them taking an action would fail upon arrival for them to be able to meet their ultimate needs. so it's a cost-benefit analysis model, if kru will. that's what strategic deterrence truly is the way we use that cost benefit analysis tool is three legs of the triad. senatorzf schmitt: as far as the triad itself, if we have everything we need to deter, we can wipe out a country off the face of the earth? general cotton: we must have the ability to have weapons systems

and platforms. training environment. etc. that the adversary, because for deterrence the adversary always gets a vote. for the adversary to understan that the cost-benefit of them taking action won't jut weigh and that the modernized systems can hold them at risk. general whiting: senator, thank you for the question. for space, the challenge is that the american people can't look up and see space systems. the ws enabling the modern way of life. i think it's important we remind the american people of all the great advantages space that we're never lost anymore because of g.p.s., we can synchronize global stock mark, point of sale, precision farming. if we lost all of that, our modern way of life would be at risk. that's why we have to protect and defend those capabilities and makeestments. i think it's incumbent on all of us to help people understand how space is truly a part of our

life even if they can't see it. schmitt: if you could identify one thing, of course in an unclassified setting, what keeps 2;■5 up at night about china's capabilities, if you want to explain that threat to folks back home who don't understand the specifics what would that general cotton: for me it's their capacity, capability, to build out their weapons systems antheir arsenal. it's that simple, sir. the pace in which they can or -- the levers that they drive or do not drive on whether they go idle or accelerate. they control that throttle. general whiting: my answer is similar. what's most concerning is the wei-chih in a has clinically studies us and our depend -- is the way china hasudied us and on space and are rapidly building

systems to hold that architecture at risk. >> mr. chairman, i would suggest the simplest answer is we want our adversaries to be scared so they don't try anything. >> i agreeh i want to make sure as we talk about the modernization, how does that fit into that discussion. >> we want them to stay scared. >> senator shaheen. senator shaheen: thank you, general cotton, yen whiting, to both of you for being here this morning. and for your service. senator kelly what we could be doing toeter our adversaries. what else we could be doing to deter our adversaries. general cotton, i appreciated the time we spent yesterday and one of the things we talked critical passing the supplemental bill and getting a budget process that's regular, that can be depended on is to ensuring that

you can accomplish your mission. is that correct? general cotton: senator shaheen, yes, it was great speak with you yesterday and you're right. think i would even capture c.r.'s, continuing resolutions for us. especially in my platform where everything that i own is being modernized. i think folks are quick to not realize that there's new start programs that are embedded in these large programs that folks will think are already under way. and not -- i just mentioned it to senator schmitt, for example. they're buildi campus for sustainment, not only of the b-52 but the b-21 continuing resolution could actually per tur b that. if you perturb anything in a larger program it can affect the program overall. and then we have a conversation of a program slipping. so yes.

stable budget. on tim budgets. are incredibly critical for us as we're making this modernization. not only across my portfolio but across the entire department of defense portfolios. senator shaheen: can you speak to what's in the national security supplemental bill we passed out of the senate that's critical to our defense industrial base and why that matters as you're looking at rebuilding, ensuring thathetria? general cotton: yes, senator. even though the majority, part of my port 230e8 yoa, but it does touch on the strail stril base, the defense industrial base which touches all of our portfolios, if you will, in regard of how we strengthen that. i think that's foundational for our ti it's more than even a -- it's more than even a department of defense issue. senator shaheen: one of the

things that i think you alluded to was the -- the sort of end-game we're at with russia in terms of bilateral negotiations on any sort of new start treaty or an effort reduce nuclear weapons. can you talk about putin's conversations -- putin's recent rhetoric around using nuclear weapons and how concerned you are about general cotton: thank you, senator. the conversation we had is, i absolutely am a proponent, you know, of treaties. but everyone has to play. and you have to follow the rules. so yes. what i'd love to see china step up and want to have a

negotiation with us, would i lo back is this absolutely. but i'm also a realist to understand that that may or may not happen. as a combatant commander, my job is to understand how do i built a force i can present to the president if that doesn't happen? but to your point on what we're seeing in rhetoric, i think what we're seeing is the president of the russian federation sees that he can use that as a coercion tool. to threaten in regard to what he had as far as nuclear force. senator shaheen: starlink and other commercial satellite ventures have been a complement to our operations in space, bute issues around how those are being used and we have to ensure that we have the appropriateanio guarantee access. so how should we be thinking about that? and what are you doing to

mitigate the risk that we might have by relying on a commercial source for some of those services? general whiting: thank you for the question. i two aspects that help mitigate that risk. number one is, in all of my experience i have only known that every company we have contracted with for satellite ar service, they have always fulfilled their obligations to us. i expect that going forward. we want to make sure we're writing the contracts smartly on what we need and making sure we get that. secondly, i would point to the thact that in satellite communications, we want a hybrid constellation. we need some built for the exclusive use of the government. in our support of general cotton as we provide nuclear command and control, protected communications to ensure the president, the secretary of defense and yen cotton always can communicate to their forces, we want that to be a government-owned constellations.

thugh there are other requirements we can go commercial for. i think it's understanding what the highest priority, you neeblg military rierpts are and then satisfying these through our own systems and usinmm we can, thats how we can help mitigate risk. senator shaheen: i have some other questions but i'll save those for the closed session. >> senator budd, please. senator budd: thank you both for being here today. general w your predecessor general dickinson told the committee that space force is working to create asymmetrical advantages around the globe. in a eare cents pre release from space and missile defense command it mentioned that they're operating across multiple commands including cyber and space to support war figh forward-deployed special operations forces. can you talk about the nexus between space, cyber and that?

general whiting:ha we do see this as a unique opportunity to help us all thee achieve our meigs. we can create accesses for cyber forces who then can support special operations forces. or special operations forces through their unique ability to to certain geographic locations can help us in our space mission by executing functions that support us. and so i have spoken to the commander of special roarptions -- operations command about that. as you noted have spoken to our army component about that. we also lef ranled and marine s components are also cyber components and so that gives us a unique pairing there as well. senator budd: so it sounds like it's a two-way street. space enables s.o.f. and other forces, s.o.f. also enables space operations?

general whiting: corct. senator budd: there'll be reduced passty to fill combatant command requirements. the demand is up, that'll be increased across geographical combatant command. do you anticipate any impacts on your command should those cuts to s.o.f. move forward over the next few years? senator -- general whiting: no, i don't. senator budd: so you don't see pact you? general whiting: i have not been briefed on anything that will impact us. senator budd: shifting gears, i asked your predecessor how he'd use our satellite constellations, especially s dee minimum number of satellites necessary. how would you answer that question particularly given recent revealed advance threats?

general whiting: i would say today our kons laigs are optimized for a benign environment. as we see threats growing we have to now protect and defend those constellations until we develop the next generation of resilient constellations. that work is ongoing to deploy the next generation of resilient capabilities but we are still going to have to protect and defend for years to come. so that's why we have to also focus on the protect and defend capabilities. senatoreral cotton, i think we can agree that it's important important to continue minuteman's operational ratings. it to conducting retest launches of minuteman to demonstrate the united states nuclear deterrent is safe, secure, reliable and: r the question. i think the answer is, i want to be able to have an ability to

surveil allinclude the minutemas my bomber forces and my slbm force as well. senator budd: general whiting, you've spoken about the need to maximize partnerships so whyis o our national security space capabilities? general whiting: senator, all the things we have to do in space, it's so mucht, you know, no one department, service, command, even country can do all the things we need to do. 's asymmetric advantage of ours to leverage the stake holders to get unity of effort to achieve our goals. that's why we want to partner as widely as we can with and organizations because it maximizes our ability to execute our mission. senator budd: thank you very mu >> senator peters? senator peters: thank you very much. general cotton, in your written

testimony you acknowlge of the g tanker fleet in accomplishing the global strike missions so we don't have to -- have on intermediate basing installations. you also highlight the upcoming acquisition, being able to support simultaneous operations including multiple combatant commands. how does a robust fueling tanker fleet sustain missions and elaborate on how the acquisition of the new kc-46 tankers will expand your global reach and ex capabilities? general cotton: thank you for the question. something that makes us incredibly unique as a fighting force is, we he the ability to fly the entire global. -- the entire globe.

even at its onset the tanker and bomber were both complementary acquisitions. it gives us incredible reach. is such a unique relationship between the tanker force and our bomber force. on my air leg. and absolutely critical to my mission setting with regards to ensuring that we have sustainable and enough tankers to be able to make that a enduring. so i pay attention to what the availability is of the tanker force. we have a great relationship with the u.s. transcom and jackie is a dear friend as well, to ensure there's no disconnect in the requirements. but you're right, that■s be stretched with the requirements that the tanker force has on

nonweapon system movement, missions that don't include bombers but includes providing forces we always have to make sure we pay attention and see that those acquisitions, not only the nuclear triad, but those acquisition on time and are healthy as well. >> i suspect the new kc-46 will be around a long time. that mission is not going anywhere soon and i've told folks this could be a 50-year mission for this aircraft and i'm reminded the b-52's are well in excess of 50 years, accurate statement in regards to the kc-46? general cotton: i don't know how long the community plans on having a kc-46 but if we use legacy as a measure, the kc-135 has been around a long time as well. senator peters: absolutely.

general cotton, northern strike in michigan is the d.o.d.'s largest annual reserve component readiness exercise that takes place in the country. over 7,000 service members from over 25 states and several international partners converge at the national aldamine war fighting center known as nadwic. it's my responsibility to ensure they receive robust funding to support realistic joint force training with our global allies and partners, and part of this reparation for future conflict requires training for our armed forces to fight and win in the electromagnetic spectrum. what role do you see state of the arrested centers like nadwic

play in this electromagnetic challenge that only gets more specific? general cotton: what will be key is ensuring that those exercises are given the true challenge they will face ahe techniques ad procedures because some of it is simple as that to counter the threat. having live reflective opportunities on training venues will be incredibly well. understanding that probably having a live training venuet ng a virtual one is. continued support in having that push for that type of training, then you would be incredibly important. senator peters: thank you, chairman. chairman: before rec the

next senator, we'll convene immediately after this open session in a closed session in abc-217 and i at this pass the gavel to senator shaheen who will preside here and there. senator mullen, please. senator mullen: thank you both for being here today. first off, i want to thank nato cotton for emphasizing the importance of modernization of the b-52 fleet and keeping it in the air especially since■x tt work is being done in oklahoma at tinker air force base and also will be the site for the b-21's and are building up the capacities and capabilities today to take on that new mission. we're very proud of that. general cotton, a queio in the investments we've made to support the bomber modernization and maintenance at tinker air force base. can you speak to the benefit

triad? general cotton: absolutely, fou. tinker and the teammates there on the base support that mission leg on behalf of men and women of the air force global strike command that provides that leg to me is absolutely critical. the fact that we're expanding and building a bomber campus, if you will, in preparation of b-21 is going to be extremely important but even more so, the production of the b-52-j as we go through the commercial engine replacementq-r program for thatt senator mullen: in addition to nuclear, they are■k strapped wih warfare, what is the next frontier for protecting our electronic communications and weapons systems? sir, obviously

it's protection systems and my colleague to the left also plays an important role in that. but more so, one of the things e're finding and it was noted through both northern edge 21 and northern edge 23 having adequate training so the men and women put in those situations understand that there are techniques, tactics, and procedures that can avoid being susceptible to the interference yo spectrum domain. i mentioned earlier but the realities of recognizing that domain is going t be contestant with the near peer adversaries we have now and being able to identify and find ways to ensure that we can fight in that domain at our choosing will be incredibly important.

>> would you like to speak to that? senator whiting: it's the only■o way to get information back from space, our communication and warning and position navigation and timing. we absolutely have to ensure we can operate there free of able o operate through any hindrance that we see. we definitely want to look to technologies that can help us reduce that susceptibity to jamming, for example. i think things like laser communications can help with that and i'd like to see those investments continue moving forward. >> currently we have a company working on a quantum and physics base techniques, is that a help, a big role for you guys? senator whiting: senator, i think that could be. i think that's one of those new technologies that would give us a way perhaps to defeat traditional jamming techniques, so i certainly would encourage■ the research lab and science and

technology community to continue to work on that and for companies to bring mature capabilities forward in that area. is art defense industry capable of making those changes when we're working on a system they say is three or fout times seven. are they able to pivot when new technology comes on? because obviously this is a growing space and a growing concern, so there's new finds, new technology that's coming on constantly. are we able to pivot? i'll hold that for both of you all. in defense to say yes, we want to start moving thi at our modernization programs across the portfolio, what we're seeing that's different and the way we want to do business is through modularity. having the opportunity for modularity is going to be critical for us and crucial for us because then we can outpace and stay ahead of the adversary.

general cotton: we want to work with the systems that we've even for a long time and help them with the pivot but have a relationship with new startup companies that may not be burdened the w things ■.have happened in the past and can now move right to the future and make sure they have an opportunity to compete for our requirements and help move them through that valley of death they call it to bring successful programs forward. senator mullen: thank you, guys. we'll see you in a minute. i yield back. >> thank you. senator king, did you have a second round you wanted to do? we're going to adjourn for 15 minutes so that senators can vote and go into closed session in the s.b.c. at this point we'll close the open session hearing.

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