>> earlier today the justice dertment's special couel robert hur tald about special documents president biden had in his possession watch the entire hearing from the house judiciary cmi ospan. c-span now, our free mobile app or online at c-span.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more, including wow. >> the world has changed, today the fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without. wow is there for our■ customers

with speed, reliability and choice. now more than ever it all starts with great internet. >> wow. support c-span as a public service along with thesother television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> this is matt bennett with third way, he's the co-founder and senior vice president of public affairs here to talk about campaign 2024. good guest: good morning. host: how would you describe your organization to other people? guest: a central left think tank involved in politics as well as policy development. host: what is central left? guest: what joe biden is, a moderate democrat. you can't use parts and terms in your name or descriptions for think tanks so that's basically what it is. host: if you're akin to joe biden, what do you think of the amount of people in the united states that would align themselves that way? it is a prg

numbers. if you look the way partisan breakdown works moderates are a plurality of the public. ■not all moderates are centerleft, some are center-right. as we have seen more polarization and the republican party in the conservative movement moving to the right, i think a lot of the folks who identify as moderate are now probably democratic voters. i think is a pretty big number. when you look at the people who host: we have seen centrists moving off thege with kyrsten sinema and joe manchin and mitt romney. what do these exits indicate? guest: i think some are idiosyncratic. it would be tough to win a senate race in west virginia. joe manchin has defied gravity there for so many years.

i think congress is getting to be a very toxic place for people in the middle. there is still a large group of centerleft people in the democratic conference in the house and senate. on the right there arear fewer and that is difficult for people who regard themselves as dealmakers not to have people on the others have the deal. host:■ what you think the threei mentioned contribute as far as getting a more centrist approach? guest: a tremendous amount, particularly in the first two years of the biden administration when joe manchin and christensen amount were at the forefront and r the seven bs joe biden has signed so far in addition to negotiating for changes to the partisan bills he signed. they played a huge role. ■]host: how much influence what you say those groups have currently in congress? guest: not very much in the

house because the house is run by one party so there is not a lot of democratic input. if the democrats retake the house you can see a significant amount of influence. jeffrey's trends in that he regards himself as a moderate and understands dealmaking requires compromise and he especially understands the moderates in the house tend to be seats that are tough to hold. these are the front line every if he wants to maintain a majority he estimate sure those people are taken care of. host: your organization has done a lot railing against the group no labels. why is that? guest: we knew what a huge risk this could be to joe biden and it could serve as a spoiler to help donald trump. when you look at the two races

trump has run for president, 2016 and 2020, third parties helped him enormously in 2016 and the fact there were not any serious third-party candidates the next time made the difference. we are really worried about third-party candidates in general, especially worried about a ticket that is purportedly moderate. they are attacking joe biden not from the fringes like where rfk junior is, but from the center. that is dangerous. we think that is an opportunityç that trump -- it is is only a way of winning. he cannot get above 50%. that means he needs help from third-party candidates. we are worried this to be the biggest help. host: you talk about the work of centrists. this approach does not sit well. is there some idea how those relate? guest: it is confusi.the word te

and we are centerleft group. in other contexts a third-party effort, particular for down ballot races could be very interesting and might help with polarization. diving in at the presidential ■ level in a cycle in which dond trump is on the ballot. trump is someone i regard as an axis digital threat to our republic is the wrong way of going about it. there is positively no way they can elect their candidate. the only ing their candidat disn between the major party candidates and the destruction will benefit trump. host: our guest is with us. if you want to ask him questions about the efforts of no labels, (202) 748-8000 democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, and independents (202) 748-8002. you caal on x.

we had one of the chief strategists of no labels talking about his efforts and what he had to say about criticisms his group has taken. >> the thing is you have to look at past elections. certainly over the course of the last decades independents do not get much traction. for you to think they could get traction you have to believe this time is different than previous elections. we believe that and voters believe that. you can go down the list of metrics. we have never been in a situation where both parties are this unpopular, where the presumptive nominees are this unpopular, where people are this pessimistic about the future of the country. when we started first thinking there was an inkling of an opening for this was two years ago. a consistent question we've been

asking over time was if it were trump have invited -- itrump-be independent would you be open to voting for an independent? the first time we asked that 59% of voters said they would be open to that ticket. why is that so important? it is not because we think an independent would get 59% of the vote, because with the multi-candidate race they do not have to get close to that. the electoral college is winner take all. if you are in a multi-race and you get 35% of estate you get 100% of the electoral votes. host: he was asked about the group being a spoiler going into this race. go ahead. guest: there are three huge problems with out. historic. no one running as a third-party candidate has come remotely close to winning theresidency. the person who came the closest

was teddy roosevelt doing this four years after leaving office is one of the most popular presidents in american history. 15 years later he would be carved into mount rushmore. this is a popular guy. he ran as a third-party candidate and got his clock cleaned. since then, no one has gotten -- all of the electoral votes won by third-party since then do not add up to 270. the last person to win a single electoral vote was george wallace in 1968 as an overt racist. people are that you had people running is racist winning electoral votes but not anywhere close. the second thing ryan points to his this metric he loves, which is that people might be open to voting third-party. of course they will say there will be open to voting for a ird-party. if a waiter said would you like

three choices -- two choices or three choices, most people would say they like three choices. this voting metric has been asked for manypeople are that ye running is years and never correlates to support for third-party candidates. the final thing i will say is if you look at all the polling, including no labels own polling they show the race between biden and a two way contest is basically tied. trump is slightly ahead right now. very close. a three way race, trump wins because bidens floor in this campaign is soft. there are people that in a two way race would swallow hard and vote for joe biden. if they were given a third option some of them might peel away. trump's floor is very hard but his ceiling is low. biden can move up and down. if you give people this third-party choice they might

take it in small enough numbers for them not to win but in large enough to affect tst: our firstm nick in florida, republican line. caller: the first thing i would like to say that centerleft organizations are simply left-wing organizations. they do not have the courage to admit it. your guest started out, one of the things he said was trump is an existential threat. existential. like that if trump is such a threat, how is it he was president for four years, we had a prosperous economy, we had peace around the world, there was no ukraine war, there was no middle east war, how is he this big threat? if he could explain that? also elections are not national. the presidents are elected by

the electoral college. saying trump does not get above 40% isit is just a left-wing tag point. two questions and i will go. what is your disposition on illegal aliens coming into the country and killing americans. the other question is on election night in 2020, why was it necessaryortates to stop counting and then begin counting again after they had kept all of the poll watout? host: you put a lot out for the guest. guest: let me start with his first comment that centerleft is the same as left. that is not the case. we have profound differences with people in our party like bernie sanders.

we are united as a party and finding trump to be an enormous threat to the country. we do have real differences. on the questn of why do i regard trump as an existential threat, the man tried to foment an insurrection against the united states. as the caller made clear he has not accepted the outcome of a free and fair election. ning for president this time it is clear he wants to govern as an authoritarian. just yesterday he was talking about how much he admires victor or bond, the authoritarian leader of hungry. he talks about how he would like to be in on a cracked. how he would like to cancel -- how he would like to be an autocrat. how he would like to cancel parts of the constitution. you have to take this guy literally and seriously.

he learned a lot about how to be president and the things in the second term are enormously scary. i will not take the second question where he asked about a our position on undocumented people committing crimes is those people should be jailed or deported. i would also note that the president did say the name of lake and riladdress and democray to talk about the fact there is a real problem at the border. the problem needs to be addressed by congress. the president does not have enough power on his own to the president has endorsed a very tough bill negotiated by a very conservative senator from oklahoma and chris murphy from connecticut. it is a tough deal, it is hard

to swallow for democrats. the president is on board. we hope congress too. host: this is from georgia. good morning. caller: the problem with the democratic party is people like you. you use black people to get you in office and then you arese wa. we did not support israel to do this or any other country to do this. you people and you will not get out and talk about white people. the majority of white people they support trump. he always talk about the black vote. exes is not red. is getting more racist

because of illegal people from ukraine and venezuela. they are notthese people are coe fascism they are bringing from germany. that is where trump came from. he is a nazi head you will not admit it. host: you made the point several times a will let our guest respond. guest: i did not quite follow all of the points. with your call a lot more than he might think. we are not responsible and neher are republicans responsible for wars in ukraine or in gaza. the approach to those wars is quite different. the approach you are seei from president biden and donald trump and his followers. the idea that we are causing these the country is not true. host: when you talked about

moderates and how they differ from progressives, what is one guest: both on economic issues and other things there are real differences. in the 2020 primaries when you had joe biden and amy klobuchar and pete buttigieg running against bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, this got to be clear. medicare for all became a big point between the moderates and the more liberal people running for president in 2020. since then, the idea of defunding the police, which started with activists but moved into the democratic mainstream divided the moderates more liberal members of the caucus. and more regular day-to-day ways , the big difference economically is that moderates believe we need robust

capitalism but that requires regulation. we are democrats. we believe you cannot have unfettered capitalism. there folks on the farther left who think we should be socializing things. medicare for all is socialized medicine. that would be 1/5 of the american economy. host: jerry joins us from alabama. independent line. caller: earlier you were talking about not really having a chance in a race. robert f kennedy, jr., in the ads i've been seeing things he has a chance, especially among young voters and i'm wondering what your thoughts are with regards to rfk, jr., and in general why is he not covered anymore in the general media? guest: that is an excellent question.

robert kennedy is running for president. he is only currently on the ballot in two states. one of the things that causes skepticism about whether he could compete to win is he is not on the ballot anywhere besides utah and new hampshire so far. they are working to get on the ballot and we are worried about that. fundamentally the question is can he compete to win the election? i would argue there is no chance of that whatsoever. not only because he is running as a third-party, but the views he has been carrying as a presidential candidate and before that -- he came to fame because he is profoundly anti-vaccine. not just the covid vaccine but all vaccines and he has traveled the world trying to convince people not to use vaccines, which has been enormously dangerous and has caused measles outbreaks and other things as a

direct result of his advocacy against vaccines. that is a inge idea. there are people who believe in that but it is not widely held. when people learn more about who he is his popularity will go down, not up. that said, i think the caller has a real point he could attract some voters, people who do not like vaccines, there are people that are attracted to him because he is vibrant and youthful and named robert f kennedy, jr., but he will not come close to winning pluralities in states you need to win. host: texas. ■democrats line. caller: i am a democrat. i am not a trump fan at all. he should never be able tohe brn the united states and he tried

to overturn the government. i never saw this country divided like it is now. i do not understand the people voting trump. thank you. guest: i cannot agree more. congress had the opportunity to ensure trump would not be able to run again. he broke a lot of laws, including very serious ones around causing an insurrection. when the second impeachment happened there was a real opportunity, there was a moment when mitch mcconnell cld have used his vote and the power he held as the leader of the republican senate to get us to the two-thirds majority required to impeach the president and that would've prevented him from running again. mitch that. it has not gone well for him since.

the fact that trump has rebounded as a leader of his party and now mcconnell is on his way out tells you what you need to know. i am with the caller. however trump is going to be the nominee and will be on the ballot in right now he has a pretty good chance of winning. we are quite worried. host: you did your own internal poll taking a look at the noble labels efforts and you said the allure is dim and fades quickly. guest: we tested a variety of things around the third-party threat. we found the same thing i said earlier. a head-to-head race between trump and biden is tied. when you add the moderate independent candidate, that candidate comes in a distant third. then we tested what we thought to be the most ambitious ticket they could possibly hope for. nikki haley, who is very prominent, and dean phillips,

who is the most prominent democrat who has expressed any openness to running as a third-party candidate. no other democrat in the nation has said that. nikki haley and phillips, how do they do? 9% of the vote. they come and forth behind trump, biden, and kennedy. that will be their high watermark. they will get not so much prominence. nikki haley has said she is not interested. when you go down from there you will be talking about low single digits and coming and forth behind biden and a trump. host: to the polls show the 9% will be pulled away from president biden versus the former president? guest: it does show that most of the vote comes away from biden. in this poll, because we tested nikki haley, it was not as dramatic a differe■snce as you might see in other places. we are just speculating on who the ticket could be. biden is hurt more.

host: matt bennett joining us, the founder and vice president of the group third way. let's hear from patrick in new hampshire. republicaner: good morning, mat. guest: good morning. caller: i was listening to talking about wars and saying how the wars around the world in ukraine, gaza, potential wars between china and taiwan, that is nobody's fault in the united states. it is not joe biden's fault. it is not the democratic party fault. you do not think it has anything to do with our weakness around the world and how we are being perceived as weak by these bad actors? i live in a small town in new hampshire. walking around the past three years and consistently, i walked three

times, one time was at 9:30 to go to the gas station and i was scared looking over my shoulder in new hampshire to see if me to commit a crime against me. it is scary for regular americans. we want to be safe. as a republican i would love for joe biden to do great on the world stage. i would love there to be no wars. i want everything to be safe and have a good life as republicans. close the southern border. keep us safe in the united states. thank you. guest: let me applaud you for that very patriotic view. too many republicans are rooting against president biden because they have a partisan interest in him failing. a republican saying i'm rooting for joe biden to do better is the kind of attitude that american should have.

i will say 2 that i do not agree that america has shown weakness and that has anything to do with russia's barbaric invasion and war against the people of ukraine or hamas's barbaric terror attack on israel or its very strongt with the war in gaza. none of that would have been different if there was a different president. actors doing things they thought benefited them at the time. i think they were horrible events but things the president cannot control. president biden could tell netaah tomorrow we are cutting you off, that would not end the war. israel is a wealthy country and they are well-equipped. netanyahu has his own reasons for fighting it. the minute this war ends and yahoo! is removed as prime

minister and might go to jai he is facing serious criminal charges. it is not because america is supporting this war. putin is executing the war for internal reasons that have nothing to do with united states. the final point i will make is the real weakness between biden and trump has come from trump. trump has repeatedly called into question our commitment to nato. invited vladimir putin to attack nato allies who are not paying their way. that is weakness. what biden has shown is strength. host: to what level are you concerned the president support israel and efforts of that would detract democratic voters from voting for him? guest: very worried. we have to take seriously what happened with the uncommitted votes in places like michigan and minnesota. people are expressing real anger

mpletely understandable. having differences with the president is a natural reaction to what is a horrible and a humanitarian catastrophe in gaza. i hope they view the protests they leveled against the president as an important statement, but by the time they get to november they will have to considerhey are going to vote for a guy with whom they have a real disagreement or fruit guy -- or for a guy whota what they believe. donald trump believes we should have a muslim they on. he has talked about a -- he has talked about expelling muslims from the united states. he is running an overtly racist campaign. choosing what someone with whom you disagree and someone anathema to you is the choice people face in november. let's hear from freddie -- host:

let's hear from freddie in georgia. independent line. caller: i am calling as an independent and i think the democrats repub need to be more concerned about the independent vote. we make up 47% of the electorate and -- my point is republicans and democrats continue to control the government and they control the war in gaza that is a■g people. both parties continue that. they also continue the war in ukraine, which the u.s. is denier eating -- denying russia the opportunity to express its security concerns. the democrats lie to your of h.r. 6276 will now resume.of the clerk will report the