óa >> coming up on "washington journal," we will take your calls and comments live. then, rafael mangual, senior fellow at the manhattan institute, talks about changing attitudes toward criminal justice reform. o÷and we w talk immigration and border security with jennie murray, president of the national immigration;d forum. "washington journal" starts now. ♪ host: good morning. it is sunday, march 17, 2024. the first shipment of aid to gaza to arrive by sea in decades

landed over the weekend. the latest response to the humanitarian crisis in the region as israel continues its■5 military response to the october 7 hamas attack that killed more than 1200 people. growing rifts between leadership in washington as a growing coalition calls for more conditions on aid to israel amid its oning war in gaza which has so far killed more than 30,000 people. this morning, we want to know your thoughts on the u.s. i cutn military aid israel? the number if you think yes is (202) 748-8000. if "no," it's (202) 748-8001. if you're unsure, (202) 748-8002 . if you would like to text us, our number is (202) 748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from.

on social media, that is facebook.com/cspan or on x, @cspanwj. one of the ways that rift was revealing itself was a senate speech by majority leader chuck schumer. schumer called for a new election in israel in a scathing speech on netanyahu. he called for the israeli government to hold a new election in a speech warning that israel risks becoming an■[ international pariah under the leadership of prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his right wing cabinet. schumer, the highest-ranking jewish official in the united states and a staunch ally of israel, says he thinks israel should understand better than anybody that they cannot hope to pariah. here is a portion of senator schumer's remarks from the

senate floor thursday. [video clip] >> israel is a democracy. five months into this conflict, it is clear that israelis need to take stock of the situation and ask, must we change course? at this critical juncture, i believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthys about the future of israel. at a time when so many israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and direction of their government. i also believe a majority of the israeli public will recognize the change, and i believe that holding a new election, once the war starts to wind down, would give israelis an opportunity to express their vision in the postwar future. of course, the united states cannot dictate the outcome of an

election, nor should we try. that is for the israeli public to decide, a public that i believe understands better than anybody that israel cannot hope to succeed as a pariah opposed by the rest of the world. as a democracy, israel has the right to choose its own leaders, and we should let the chips fall where they may, but the important thing is israelis are given a choice. there needs to be a fresh bait about the future of israel after their octoberá■] 7. in my opinion, that is just accomplished by holding an election. now, if prime minister netanyahu's current coalition remains in power after the war begins to wind down and continues to pursue dangerous and inflammatory policies that test existing u.s. standards for

assistance, then the united states will have no choice but to play a more active role in shaping israeli policy by using our leverage to change the present course. host: some of the social media responses to senator schumer's speech, this from senater richard blumenthal -- i welcome senator schumer's insightful comments on new direction for policy change in the middle ealasting peace and stability is important. representative brad schneider said, although i have this agreement with israel's government, i respect the israeli right to decide for themselves when to call for election and whom to choose as their leader. john fetterman says come at any point, hamas could have ended this burgeoning tragedy to surrender and release every hostage. now, tar unwilling to provide a list of any surviving hostages. hamas is an and athena --

anathema. ambassador michael herzog says israel is a sovereign democracy. it is unhelpful as it is at war with the genocidal terror the democratic ability of our ally. and finally, israeldecides for n elections are held and uses its own leaders. america must continue to stand with our ally israel and ensure it has the time and resources it needs to win a war. hamas bears sole responsibility before this. one more from j street. majority leader schumer, an unimpeachable heght to stand up for u.s. interests and our shared values. as he says, he speaks for a silent majority of jewish americans. his nuanced views have long been

overshadowed by louder voices. just to get a sense of some of the contributions the u.s.litard to israel, under a 10 year agreement negotiated by then president 2016. under this agreement, the u.s. provides about $3.3 billion in military financing and about $5 million in missile-defense systems and coordination every year. that is some of the leverage senator schumer was referencing in his speech. if you look at the council on foreign relations, which has several charts related to u.s. aid to israel, you can see israel largest cumulative recipient of u.s. aid, especially if you look out total aid from 1946 to 2023, adjusted for inflation. egypt coming second but quite a

distance away. if you come down here, it says u.s. military aid to israel has been consistent since the 1970's. that is that $3.6 billion here. if we go up, the united states provided israel significant economic assistance from 1971 to 2007, but nearly all usa today goes to support israel's military, the most advanced in the region. the united states provisionally agreed, via memorandum of understanding, to provide israel with nearly $4 billion a year through 2028, and u.s. lawmakers are considering billions of dollars in supplemental funding for israel amid its war with hamas. let's start with your calls. let's start with christine in florida, who believes, yes, we should indeed cut or condition our military aid to israel. go ahead.

caller: yes, i've been following this war, and i feel like israel is committing genocide and should be accused of war crimes. i see no reason why we should give them any more money for weapons. they seem to have enough weapons as it is. they are having no problem killing the palestinians, and they are making no progress in getting rid of hamas. instead, i believe they are helping hamas get more recruits, because these children that are watching this genocide are going to step up to defend their people. it's the opposite of what they should be doing. thank you. host: thanks for your call. john mcnally agrees, saying in terms of whether we should cut or condition military aid to

israel, yes, immediately. right now, we are complicit with genocide. netanyahu and his right wing cronies are destroying israel's reputation in the world and dragging our reputation down with him. republican senator mitch mcconnell, the senate minority leader, pushed back on senator schumer's remarks on thursday. here is an excerp of those comments as well. [video clip] >> the jewish state of israel the people of israel, at home and in captivity, deserve america's support. unity government and security cabinet deserve the deference fitting a sovereign democratic country. the primary obstacles to peace in israel's region

terrorists like hamas and palestinian islamic jihad, who slaughter innocent people and corrupt peoples of the palestinian authority, who have repeatedly -- repeatedly -- rejected peace deals from multiple israeli governments. and foreign observers, who cannot keep these clear distinctions, ought to refrain from weighing in. it is grotesque and hypocritical for americans, who hyperventilate about foreign interference in our own democracy, to call for the removal of the democratically elected leader of israel. host: some response coming from within israel, from the party of

which benjamin netanyahu is chair. it says israel is an independent and proud democracy that elected prime minister benjamin netanyahu, not a banana republic. prime minister netanyahu leads a determined policy that is supported by a majority of the people. the israeli public supports a complete victory over hamas, rejects any international dictates to establish a palestinian terrorist state, and opposes the return of the palestinian authority to gaza. that came from the times israel on march 14. a comment on facebook, it says we should not be giving away anything to israel or ukraine, if they want to buy our weapons, that is fine. otherwise, they are on their own. this is all biden's fault, and both countries would be at

peace today if trump were still in office. if we actually look at some of the u.s. military aid to israel, it mentions that, here on this council on foreign relations article, that transfers on u.s. military equipment to israel, as to other foreign governments, are subject to relevant u.s. law. before selling u.s. weapons systems or services to a foreign power, the president typically must notify congress, allowing lawmakers a period of time to review the sale. congress can block that sail through a joint resolution. this military aid that we sent to israel, most of the aid, approximately $3.3 billion a year, is provided under grants through the foreign military financing program, funds israel must used to purchase u. has aly

been permitted to use a portion of its foreign military financing a two buy equme from israeli defense grants. that procurement is to be phased out in the next years. u.s. aid reportedly accounts for some 15% of israel's defense budget. israel countries, also buys u.s. military products outside the fmf program. let's get to your calls. will says yes, we should cut or condition the aid. caller: good morng this conflicn october the seventh. this conflict started 75-odd years ago, when palestinians were wrongly driven off their land, on which they el for centuries.

illegal settlements are still going on to this day on the west bank. america is finding genocide, and the death toll is going to increase 10 times what it currently is because of starvation and illness. i want to say to joe biden, you've blown this election because of your policy of gaza and israel and your border, your border policy. you've blown it. you've handed the presidency to donald trump. and, again, america, you're going to pay for setting -- pay for putting such a guy, donald trump, in office. host: next up is tony, in north carolina, who believes we should not condition our aid israel. caller: yes. having served in the marine corps for 20 years, i ha to isrl and done work with israeli

defense forces. it is one of the strongholds we have in that area. it is a true democracy there. it is one of our strongest allies in the area. it is also a great port and everything for uss warships and everything to be repaired. i will agree with what will was biden has not only blown this, but the way he handled is not a war president. he has no idea about this. we need to support israel. if the palestinians would lay down their weapons, there would be peace. if israel lays down their weapons, they would be eliminated. thanks. have a good day. host: thank you.dan is in santa, california and is unsure. caller: hi. i call■xed line, although i am what you

would consider a liberal. i am a registered democrat. but i do, like a lot of progressive and liberal jews now, feel homeless, because i feel the left has hijacked a big chunk of the liberal party to obsessively hate israel. october 7, and i wish your hosts would do a little more pushback when far left callers come in and make lies about israel, like using the terms genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid state. especially the word genocide. it is used a lot to the point there are tons of attacks against jewish students around the world. genocide has to d is not the inf or israeli government to wipe out all the postings. if you do the math, it is 1% or 1.5% of palestinians killed, if you are generous and say all

33,000 who died are civilians, which they aren't. it isnow. they got attacked on october 7. it was a massive mass murder. there were gang rapes. it is hideous what happened. they have a right to fight back. what john fetterman said is correct. ended months ago if for two things, one, suender, two, release the hostages. i do not think any of this has been set at any of the crazy hate rallies. none of the processors are saying this. all they are sayin f to the seat want two states, we want all of it. the left has been hijacked by islamist, socialist, communist -- host: you called in on the unsure line, but i want to clarify, what do you think should happen when it comes to u.s. military aid to israel? i think, right now, at

this juncture in tpport them. and if netanyahu or his far right party to get out of control, then we should, you know, talk tobut i don't reallyl these city council meetings i've seen all over the u.s., they are getting hijacked by these extremists, really have any say. do you really think netanyahu and the idf would say, chicago and san francisco say which is stopped, we should pull our troops out? they don't care. host: next up, doug in south dakota, who things we should cut or condition aid. caller: good morning. i got to disagree with this guy you just talked to. i wish you were asking about the settlements and so forth. -- they plan on taking it all. biden is still giving them a lot

of money, and they are keeping the money down. i hope we would keep at least the arms sales to israel under the money limit, so they do not have to bring it to congress. and actually, biden has got a jewish cabinet. if you go to the jewish library, they will brag how many jewish people they have in biden's cabinet -- host: when it comes to military aid, what do you think of the suggested increase of aid package they are pushing, with an additional $14 billion in aid to israel? caller: all they will do is kill more kids. i do not dislike israel. it is just what they do. i dislike hamas for killing kids and innocent people. that is wrong. what israel is doing now is wrong could i wish you would ask these people about settlements. they are trying to push people

out. they have been screwed all the way since 1948. and they keep talking about hiding within the public. look up ben gurden one time. he was hiding within the public -- host: all right. let' david in ohio, who does not the we should cut or condition military aid to israel . caller: i certainly think we should continue to support israel. we started our support for think we kind of abandoned them. and the idea they had nomads in that land, which is religious land -- i think the united states should always support people who are peaceloving. i do not think the palestinians are actually palestinians. i think they're nomads, andu i think, if you want to be an

enemy -- you should have most of the world -- you should not have most of the world thinking of you as a hate group. host: when you say they are nomadss, are you saying there were not established cities in what is now israel prior to 1948? caller: i think they were wanderers, islamic wanderers. and since the majority of israel had been dispersed, i think that they just claimed the land that was, at one time, called palestinia. through the years, i guess, it was diverted ot t -- to the name there were quite a few established cities in that area prior to 1948. perhaps we can find a map. let's look at comments from facebook.

diplomacy and conditional cooperation are the k t stop fun wars, perpetuating violence and destruction. maryann price says help palestine, cut israel. raymond, no, finish the job and wipe hamas off the face of the earth. have a great day. martin says, no, we should cut or condition aid to everyone who wants to hurt israel. and we already heard from john mcnally. let's hear from rashid in florida, who believes we should cut or condition aid to israel. good morning. caller: good morning. our taxpayer money should not go to israel to kill thousands and thousands of innocent people. host: ok. thank you. diane is in connecticut and is unsure.

why are you unsure? caller: hi. because i do not know if israel would be able to make it without being funded by the u.s. but the way i look at it, israel was given to the jews by god in the bible. if people would read the bible, they would know the truth. it is called the promised land given to the jews by god. the palestinian's were already there, and god told them to kill all the palestinians, and they didn't do it. that is why they continue to have this problem. if they do not need the money, sure, cut it. but if they do need the money, i do not think israel should be cut. thank you. host: noah is in alabama and says no. go ahead. caller: yes. i agree with the last caller. it says in the bible there is a

curse to those who turn against israel. if we ever turn against them, it will divide the nation that divides israel. i believe that. it is a warning from god. some things are true, whether you believe them or not. i believe judea and sumea, what some people call the west bank, is part of israel, too. host: cyrus is in boston and says yes. go ahead. caller: thank you. i absolutely believe in conditions to aid. idea. if it were a question of america's best interest, then we are 100% better off being an ally of all the other countries in the region, including palestine, because it does more to serve our economic■ interest, such as securing access to oil, it gives more at streatery --

strategic depth to be analyzed to others in the region. if we can make nice with other states, we can pssure them to be friends with israel instead. israel is a top destination for criminals because they do not suge knight -- extradite to us, so they are not always nice to us. st: an article writing -- an independent and seven democrats argued in a letter that the administration ran foul of part of a law that bars military aid to going to any country that blocks humanitarian aid. a group of democratic senators urged president biden monday to stop providing■k offensive weaps to israel for the war against hamas until it lifts restrictions on u.s.-backed

humanitarian aid going to gaza. in a letter to president biden, senator bernie sanders and seven democrats argued that, by continuing to arm israel, president biden was violating the foreign assistance act, which bars aid going to any country that restricts humanitarian aid. it was the latest bid by members of his own party to intensify pressure on mr. biden to use his leverage to demand prime mr. netanyahu to mitigate the suffering of palestinians as the offensive in gaza attracts into its fifth month. a portion of the letter from those senators -- united states should not provide military assistance to any country that interferes with humanitarian assistance to gaza. we know that the language of the statute precludes u.s. assistance -- does not preclude u.s. assistance for missile

defense, such as the iron dome, and other defenses pursuant to the national defense authorization act. federal law is clear, and given the urgency of the crisis in gaza and the repeated refusal of prime minister netanyahu to address u.s. concerns on this issue, immediate action is necessary to secure a change in policy by his government. the senator's signing that were sanders, van hollen, murph, warren, and christian lujan --i. coming up, arthur, who does not believe we should cut or condition aid. caller: yes. i would like -- in light president kennedy said in a convention address to an

american university in may of 1963, peace does not lie in covenants and treaties alone. it lies in the hearts and minds of the people. the u.s. government, through the u.s. information agency, began a program in the mid-1980's to introduce a curriculum educating for democracy and tolerance into the palestinian curriculu educational system, k through 12. you tell me, when you ask your listeners, how successful was palestinian society in recognizing thatple have a right to live in the form of a british mandate in palestine? if you study through google, you will see, going back to 1922, the

conference after world war i, the international community has tried countless times to introduce a two-state solution into the troubled holy land. look at president clinton. look at what president obama and now president biden. the fact is the palestinians have not accepted the recognition of a two-state solution. the u.s. government should continue military assistance. we wiped out the taliban. we wiped out isis. israel should continue wiping out the iranian proxies who are creating all the trouble in the middle east, hezbollah and hamas , and palestine islamic jihad. host: thank you. via text message, we heard from

william in kentucky, who says, yes, keep funding. israel is engaged in war, and the nature of involved significance of billion fatalities. they have made the mistake of engaging in a zero-sum game, but here we are, in war. former president donald trump has also criticized president biden's response to israel. here is a story about that in "the hill." it says the president dumped netanyahu. former president trump criticized president biden for israeli in an interview set to air it sunday, and all of a sudden, he dumped israel. that authorities -- that is what he is doing, he dumped israel. quote, he just said essentially netanyahu should take a walk.

biden, who has been facing pressure from his party to call for a permanent cease-fire in gaza, has called on israel to do his part to allow more aid into the territory and have more border openings in his recent state of the union address. now let's hear from carl from new york, who believes aid should be cut or conditioned. caller: good morning. i have a few things to say. first thing is google the uss liberty. it will tell■2 youho shot it up. hello? host: i'm here. caller: and again, they don't -- he murdered 18,000 palestinians off the bat. them people over there, they're not semites, they're jews from

the holocaust. god gave the land to the hebrew people. they were ethiopian. everybody got it all twisted. the same story comes from jesus. host: bob does not believe aid should be conditioneded or cut. caller: thank you for taking my call. people seem to forget hamas murdered and butchered over 30 americans. we do have a dog in this. are americans still being hostile -- still being held hostage and have died. chuck schumer should talk - one other thing, the palestinian name was made up after the 1967 war.

arafat was an egyptian. the percent of palestinians are foreign power -- foreign fighters. they were also elected in two office. elections have consequences. wipe them off the face of the earth. host: bob mentioned the american hostages in israel. the times of israel has an article about u.n. crgeneral ang with the families of american hostages in gaza and calling for their unconditional release. the u.n. secretary general just met with the families of american hostages held in gaza, his spokesman says. during the meeting, he reiterated the call for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, including human really -- including human remains. diane is in st. paul, minnesota and thinks aid should be cut or conditioned. good morning.

caller: yes, i do. the reason i say that, in 1948, without any consent from the people who lived in whatever you want to call it, palestine, gaza, the west bank, and all of that -- these people who call themselves jewish people were dropped there by the powers in the world. nobody asked them, do they want to go there. nobody asked the palestinians, do you want them here? they took their land from them. i do not care what your bible says, because everybody in america and were else are not christians. we don't go by that bible you're tlaking about. and i want to say this, because people are talking about they do not have anything to do with -- yes, they did. read your history. before 1948, that was an economically supported country, area. all over there was.

before we decided to put folks there. i've been over there. i've seen what happens. you have people from america here. 's white can go over there and claim these palestinian lands and put them off of their land. if somebody came to america and did me like that, i would be fighting, too. you created more trouble than you think you are by killing all these people. they need to have some kind of restrictions on this aid. i have nothing to do with hamas, but i do care about women and children who are growing up without their parents. i talked to a person who lost 39 of their family members in this war over there, and they are not into arms. the united states has been doing this since 1948. why should they quit? look back. in history, or thousand 69,000 palestinians died when■ they tok

over -- host: i want to go to a comment from president biden on this in the white house on friday. he answered a reporter's question about senator schumer's speech and this situation. that was senator schumer's speech calling for new leadership in israel. [video clip] >> senator schumer's speech on israel yesterday? >> senator schumer contacted my staff, my senior staff, that he was going to make that speech. i am not going to elab■÷orate on his speech. he made a good speech, and i think he expressed his sincerest concern,ly by him but by many americans. host: an additional, we received the text message from dave in orlando, florida, who says i think the u.s. should support israel by medical and food aid only. the fighting needs to stop.

victor in new haven, connecticut, and does not think a should be cut or conditioned. go ahead. caller: yes, thank you. people should ask themselves, where do these young male terrorists come from? these are palestinians that have been trained by their families to continue this generational hatred of israel. and now the thunder has been brought down on them, and they are suffering. well, they should stop the hatred. everyone that has children knows that children don't know race, ey they don't know anything. they're trained to hate. that's the situation with the palestinians chose to be in. i don't think this fighting should stop until this so-called

hamas is entirely eliminated. as far as the two-state solution, that is a mistake. we didn't like it during our civil war, when england wanted a two-state solution for us, so they could keep getting seven cotton. they wanted the confederacy to be left alone and to go back to normal trading time. the only -- host: we are going to keep it on this topic for now. i want to go to another text message we received from ian from florida, who says cut aid to israel. no more american money and bombs. this is genocide,kevin is in ges there should be conditions on israel. go ahead, kvein.

caller: no, i don't want any more billions of bombs or missiles going to israel. this is blatant genocide. it's murder. whatever donald trump says is useless. he's an insurrectionist and racist and a felon, so his opinion don't count. i don't want biden to continue sending more weapons to israel. i'm seeing every day there is innocent people getting killed for nothing. biden is losing support.

he needs to reverse course and just stop sending weapons and start sending food -- host: some polling supporting what you were saying about president biden support and this issue. a story from the associate oppressed says half of adults believe israel has gone too far in the war against -- in gaza. this story from february 2. half of adults say israel's 15 ld military campaign in gaza has gone too far, driven mainly by growing disapproval in republicans and political independents. broadly, the poll shows support biden's handling of the solution dropping across the board.

-- that's as an earlier spike for israel following the hamas attack on october 7 sags. let's look at that chart of support. if you look at u.s. adults, immediately after the attack, so if you look at november 2 through november 6, about a month after the attack, only 40% said that israel's response had gone too far versus 30% saying it was about right, 18% not far enough. if you jump up to january 25 to 29th, 50% saying it had gone too far, 31% about right, only 15% saying it had not gone fardemoce too far direction, both immediately after the attack and more recently, but that has reversed a little bit when it comes down to republicans, who originally, only 18% said it had gone too far, and in january, that jumped up to 33%.

another message we received via text from dave in north carolina. regardless of who is right or wrong, our aid to other countries should never be unconditional. our doing so would make us just as guilty for any crimes committed by those countries. and then mark in maryland says schumer calling for new leadershipthe war winds down" ignores the fact israel is on the brink of destruction due to their mishandling of the gaza situation. no one can support a bully. the u.s. is going to withdraw support. katrina is in west virginia and does not believe usaid should be cut or conditioned. caller: i don't. it should be used strategi■.lly to restructure our agreement so

we can get more out of this deal, including reinstituting their judicial system, which pretty much has been wiped out by netanyahu. i think we should use it for strategic purposes, to restructure it, get more beyond that, because these agreements take sometimes decades to structure. i also want to say i am listening to the comments, and it is making me realize just how evil christianity has become. people are using christianity as a moral excuse to kill people. i am just glad i left it. it seems so evil to me now. but thank you for the time. host: nixon in florida and is unsure. good morning. caller: good morning. i mean, i'm not sure i will support biden going further, because his foreign policy has left me uneasy with all the deaths. and now, we're going to haiti to

establish -- i don't know what we are going to stop us over there, because last time i checked, that was an independent, free country, so why are we involng ourselves and other people's country? i do not understand. i voted for biden before, give him a shot to see what he can do to make this whole world a better place, but all i am seeing is death and destruction, and you want me to give you another four years. to do what? it's been nonstop war after war. and you are even listening to the people who put you in office, your supporters. if yourrters say the direction you are going is not right, we are on comfortable with it, then you reassess. you pivot a little bit and say, ok, netanyahu, hold on.

you're going too far. you are dropping bombs all over, you're killing babies, it is not looking good. the old world is looking at you as if we are cosigning this. you are our ally. god rest his soul, you are our lybut you cannot sit back and at like everything is peaches and cream when people are starving. i've never seen someone use starvation as a war tactic. it's crazy. host: thank you. patrick is in his break and says aid should be cut or conditioned -- patrick is in pittsburgh and says aid should be cut o conditioned. caller: we should cut all of these people -- in light my friend was a former consul general and was flabbergasted -- there is no u.s. aid department.

israel has taken complete control of the entire complex. they turned into a fortress. kerry acknowledges this. former secretary of state kerry acknowledges this. he says at least i can go where i need to. the american people better look at our nation, because we are palestine 2.0. these people are absolutely horrific. my friend in lebanon has grandchildren. his granddaughter was raped by an idf soldier. how dare you, america, allow our tax dollars to go to engage in mass mder of men, women, children? do you have any shame, america? you are a shameful, bloodsoaked nation. host: frank in georgia and does not t should be cut or

conditioned. caller: no, i do not think it should be cut. it should be an unconditional surrender and all the hostages should be released. they started this fight, and israel is going to finish it. a couple other things. israel has always existed. since the bible was written. the jews lived there. it was changed to palestine when the romans took it from the israelis, and they named it palestine to spite the israelis. ch is the foundation for christianity, judaism, and islam, the old testament, god gave atlanta abraham, and he -- god gave that land to abraham, and solomon and moses would come from that line. they didn't have children -- host: when it comes to u.s.

military aid to israel, do you think it should continue at the level it is currently at, or do you agree with this $40 million package? caller: there should be a one-state solution. it is nonsense. the two-state the solution has never worked. it needs to be a one-state solution, just like apartheid, this government that ruled south africa, just like america, when we had slavery and we overthrew the south. sanctioned law. there needs to be a one-state solution. it is foolishness. host: glenn is on our yes line. we lost glenn. let's go to david in north carolina. caller: good morning. absolutely, the u.s. should

continue support for israel. october 7, i hear everyone talking about women and children women and children died on october 7. everybody was quiet there there was peacinestine and israel. they were getting along. then the tragedy, they decided to go in on the seventh and desecrate israeli citizens for no reason, unarmed citizens. and now, when the same things are happening to them, the world is crying out, stop this. i don't think it should be stopped. i think they should go inot rafah, they should go into palestine and clean it out, get rid of all hamas. and hezbollah and the whole group. all the terrorist organizations. they are called terrorists for a reason.

we need to be demolished. the only way to demolish these people, who are hiding behind innocent women, men, and children, the only way to get rid of them is to go in, do what you have to do, which is war, and make it happen and keep their land free and not have them so this thing can happen again living right besideit is . hopefully, lord willing, they will overcome it and defeat hamas. host: this story in the new york times about the first seaborn aid reaching gaza amid fears about security and allergen. about 200 tons of food arrived as unicef saidumber of children in gaza were facing food deprivation. the first shipment of aid to reach gaza by sea was unloaded in a makeshift jettison in the

mediterranean, marking a mileste. the ship, loaded with about 200 tons of rice, lentils, canned beef and chicken, provided by the world central kitchen charity. this revision was set to unfold in the shadow of a series of attacks that have killed or wounded palestinians scrambling for desperately needed food. united nations aid groups had to largely suspend deliveries in northern gaza last month. its human rights office documented over two dozen such attacks. the latest bloodshed took place late thursday in gaza city, where at least 20 people died after an aid convoy came under attack. gazans and the israeli military traded blame. many details about what unfolded remain unclear saturday. on x, this says cut it and

certainly no more aid for ukraine. now let's hear from albert on our yes line. caller: i do not believe the united states should provide any help to any countries around the world. the countries should exist -- their own citizens should decide how to live and support their own country. i do not believe that any country around the world should receive -- host: i think we lost you there, albert. let's go to g spring on our no line. caller: good morning. thank you for having me. i would like to say this.

the people of gaza allowed hamas to come into their city and set up their bases and so forth to attack israel. israel has a right to defend itself, so it attacks back. that is what i think they should do. the united states should support them, 100%. remember, god gave atlanta to israel. the united states has a removing those people who would attack israel. that is what i feel. had gaza not had hamas or set up hamas in that city and they attacked israel, this would have never happened. the gazan people should have went to israel and say we need help, we have to get rid of them or went to egypt to say we need to get rid of them. host: ok. matt is yes line. good morning.

matt, are you there? caller: yes. host: yes, we can. caller: ok. i'm in front of the white house every saturday, and i see these people come, palestinians, and they grieve the deaths. i do'nt know what you call it, they have a little setup, and they bring markers to mark the deaths. i see this all the time. it truly amazes me mindlessly supportive savages we have become in this country. people need to do a little research on this, because clearly none of them know anything about what is going on over there. it's time the media also started giving the palestinians a little more coverage than they do, and

maybe it would change the way host: roberto is in new jersey on our no line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i was born in spain, and i'm an israeli sympathizer. i am host to the jewish cause. i believe the palestinians started this war, and they should be forced out to syria, where they can live there, work there, rebuilding syria, and they can invest in toilet paper that can be sold and sent to the israeli army. host: steve in virginia on our line for folks who are unsure. caller: good morning, can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: i think that a lot of people need to recognize a

couple things about this entire conflict. this has been going on for literally thousands of years. it is not anything new. the u.s. is trying to facilitate from both sides, taking care of the gazan people while respecting the fact that the israelis have dealt with this over and over and over. hamas needs to be removed, but the gazan people need to be the ones that do it. ihat because, without the gazan people recognizing the issues and the pain that it's creating on the people of gaza, i don't see how things will change -- host: so what do you think that means for u.s. military aid to israel? caller: well, i think the aid to israel should continue with a

caveat that they need to do what they can to avoid the civilian impacts. there is a lot going on, and there is too much misinformation across the board. for the u.s. people not to support the israelis -- i heard a gentleman say "how dare they s tarve people," go back to the holocaust, there were a whole lot of jewish people who were starved. it is not that the israelis want to do that, i believe, but the u.s. military aid is there to provide a mechanism of defense. i do not recall, prior to october 7, or any other non-provoked attack, where the israelis flatout attacked the gaza strip. even going back to anwar and

some of the other periods of time. i think people forget there was an olympic -- host: steve, we will keep it on this particular topic and see if we can get a couple other calls. jason on our yes line. caller: well, we know the circumstances here where a lot of people -- in fact, have not heard anything this morning blaming netanyahu for receiving that contact from qatar, asking him for more funding to go to hamas, and he said, just months before october 7, yes, send the millions we have been sending them, that we have agreed to send them for quite some time. this is not productive. it was sloppily handled.

it took seven hours to get to the jews to get to their kibbutz on their border. there is a lot that we do not know in thiset up by probably proxies on both sides in understanding these circumstances and how vulnerable israel was and how israel would respond. would respond. they got exactly what they wanted. to find a resolution for the problem here, unfortunately, war to annihilate hamas the only resolution, but there will be an occupation in palestine by israelis for the next decade for generations on in. because the damage that is being done by all the lost filies

by collateral damage -- host: that's all the time we have for this segment right now. thank you to everyone who called in with your thoughts. up we are going to hear from the manhattan institute's rafael mangual is going to discuss urban anti-crime initiative and changing attitude toward criminal justice reform and later, jenny murray is going to be on to discuss immigration, border security and the role of these issues are playing in the campaign. happy st. patrick's day to everyone who enjoys and on frid, president biden spoke at the annual friends of ireland lunch on capitol hill and here are some of his remarks. president biden: folks, look, mr. speaker, i want you to know that diplomatic -- once wrote every st. patrick's day, every

irishman goes outanother irishma speech to. [laughter] thank you for allowing me to find you. look, i'm glad i found all of you because no matter how much we debate, no matter how much we disagree, we've always bn able to come together as friends of ireland. the friendship goes back centuries, but today is an important milestone. nearly 100 years of diplomatic relations, nearly 100 years in the united states. so mr. speaker, take you for hosting this today and it is a tradition i've always enjoyed. and thank you for joining us again. and i'd also like to extend 100,000 welcomes to all leaders who are involved in the ireland and northern ireland agreements that have put it together.

i just wonder whether my mother would have ever thought that would happen, but it has happened and it is great. it is great to come together once again. to all irish-americans, democrat and republican members here, i'm glad to be united on this issue as we begin the next century of a real partnership, a partnership that is really increasing now. and finally to all who wish they were irish, i'm glad you are here, too. [laughter] sed to say that being irish is enough. i stand here as a proud descendant of finnegans from county mayo, and this pride is part of my soul, and i'm sure for all of you who are irish anw what i serve on capitol hill, my colleagues used to kid me

because i was always putting irish poets. they thought it was because i was irish. i don't do it for that reason, it is because they are the best poets in the world, that is why i quote them. it's true. [laughter] today, there is one poem in pajcrticarit was written by my t grandfather who was only the second -- elected of the state senators and the stated pennsylvania back in 1906, and he wrote a book of 100 poems about what he referred to as his ireland. one he called worker and here is it said. no barrier is too thick or strong to stay the onward march each day. a goal they seek, a goalie fine, hardship for them this but real play. and i think together ireland in america are always marching

forward toward a better world, toward a better life. greater liberty, greater dignity and greater equity of opportunity and possibility for announcer: this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in session on tuesday. those chambers will focus on passing the six remaining 2024 spending bills before midnight friday to avoid a partial government shutdown. command, kenneth mckenzie jr. and the former chair of the joint chiefs of staff, retired general mark milley testified before the house foreign affairs committee on the biden administration's withdrawal of u.s. forces from the anniston in 2021. wednesday, the house oversight committee continues to investigate cross -- possible abuses of public office by president biden, hunter biden invited to attend the hearing, but declined. also, jerome powell host his quarterly press conference following the federal open market committee meeting. and thursday, janet yellen and

the director of the office of management and budget testified before the house appropriations subcommittee on financial services and enteral government. on president biden's 20 when he five post budget. -- 2025 proposed budget. watch on the c-span network or ■ualso, head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch a live and on-demand anytime. of government. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we're joined now by rafael man gual from the manhattan institute where he is a senior fellow ahead of research of policing and public policy and also the author of "criminals injustice." guest: thanks for having me back. host: can you talk a little bit about the manhattan institute as an organization, your mission? guest: sure.

the manhattan institute as a public policy think tank founded in 1978 in new york city, and our mission is basically to promote freedom and well-being across urban america, though not exclusively. i think it would be fairly characterized as relatively conservative or libertarian by policies. in terms of our funding, it mostly comes from a private individual donors and in my work, it's pacific the on criminal justice so the institute has individuals that research areas across the spectrum of public policy, everything from economics and public finance education policy and mental health policy, so yeah. focusing justice is something i've been doing since 2015, so almost 10 years now. i focus on a variety of issues

but mostly crime, policing and incarceration. my book is kind of the culmination of about seven years ofork in the criminal justice reform debate. host: why are some cities now kind of shifting their■, 2 focus toward maybe some more traditional progressive views around policing to some that are calling them more conservative views? >> it is hard to assess motives but it is an election season. i do think a lot of cities have sort of realized that they come vulnerable and crying continues to register as an issue that matters quite a lot to ters. i think a lot of them are very nervous given the last years and the fact that we haven't even reverted back to where we were pre-2020, let alone pre-2015 we started to see homicides spike throughout this country.

but i also think a lotitjust a t that the media has become the word of the day for the last ■decade, but is it working? that harm is being concentrated in a country's most vulnerable communities. i think a lot of people are just realizing it is time to do something about that. as i said before, i think people should be constantly encouraged by these moves, and i say cautiously again because this is an election season. we are all clear that we're -- what we are seeing constitute a substantial reversal. i do think a lot of these initiatives are relatively modest and again, i think the reality is that we have swung so far to the left on criminal justice policy, so far in the leniency direction that what we've seen it done in places like d.c. and san francisco, in

oregon doesn't come close, it doesn't hold a candle to all of the things that have been enacted throughout this country# since 2010 which really shifted the paradigm for how we view criminal justice in america so to the extent that this is the beginning of what turned out to be a broader trend i think we should be encouraged, but i do think that people who are worried about crime shod remain cautious and understand that these are relatively modest views that may not last beyond november. host: let's talk about some of those moves. is a headline here in politico, cities are embracing conservative anti-crime measures , san francisco, washington, new york city, among municipalities were policymakers are backing partial policies. if we look specifically at san francisco it says has san francisco lost its moral soul? any city known as a progressive

bastion, boaters have resoundingly passed two conservative-leaning ballot measures on police authority and drug screening. some details on that, one measure gives more power to the police and the other requires welfare recipients to our drug addictions to enter treatment as a condition to continue to receive benefits. critics of the measures set residents had veered to the right and that billionaires have bought a city by throwing money for campaigns for the measures. can you talk a little bit about these examples and some of the other specific calls that are cropping up in cities around the country? guest: again, the san francisco ballot initiatives are a perfect example of just how mild some of these things are. san francisco has long been sort of the epicenter of the public disorder problem. it was one of the reasons why

the former district attorney was open about the recall initiative. a lot of people who visited san francisco recently be able to attest to this, but it is a city that is played by public drug use, open air drug markets, public education, a burgeoning homeless population making in camp and that has really affectedtu the only of life in e city. it is something that even long-term residents have not been able to find a way out of. something that is much more easily than a violent crime problem. if you add to that fact that people turn on the news in cities like san francisco and are consistently seeing just brazen retail theft, we have these policies where pleas can even engage in pursuits in certain cases. i think what we're seeing is just a collection of the fact that some people are fed up again, giving police more

authority to engage in pursuit is i think something that goes people say they should be able to pursue criminals in almost every case, and understanding that the current trajectory of policy with respect to drug use hasn't eased the b the streets. trying to figure out another way to get people to the treatment that they greatly need i think it's worth trying. i think a lot of san franciscans do, too. i don't know if that makes the right-wing reactionary, but the sort of characterization of this shift to the right reflects an unhealthy patient -- politicization of our criminal justice debate. these are issues that used to be bipartisan. i recently watched president biden respond to george bush state of the union, and a lot of his rhetoric would have been into the stash stingish law

and order folks today. i think america needs to move back in that direction. as far as some of the other examples we are seeing, washington state again getting more authority to police to engage in pursuits. you've got oregon proposing the criminal of drug possession for certain substances -- decriminalization. the most prominent example of this comes out of washington, d.c. which recently passed a criminal justice bill which does several things. it has over 100 provisions. among those things is it gives power. it does sort of rearrange what has been passed with respect to things like restraints, police pursuits. something lots of folks have been complaining about. and it ups the penalties for certain answers including property theft and gun charges.

again, these are pretty modest proposals, there's a lot of agreement across the spectrum in this country, it is important to understand there are lots of states that either have to move in this direction or have expended a lot of capital maintaining the status quo or going further down. the city of austin, texas recently reelected progressive prosecutor, and even more progressive prosecutor. last year, the state of illinois spent a lot of political capital funding the safety act and basically eliminated cash bail. with respect to new york city, you are seeing a small number of national guardsmen doing bag checks on the subway, but again that is a drop in the bucket compared to all of the movement has occurred.

2020, you've got bail reform, two really big criminal justice policy shifts. in 2021 you had the less is more act. 2018 just before that, the juvenile justice reform. several reforms at the city level with respect to qualified unity and police use of force. there is still a long way to go in terms of shifting back to the kind of law and order days of the mid-90's, early 2000's, but i do think we should be encouraged by at least what seems to be a recognition that we've gone too far. host: so we were talking earlier about san francisco and san francisco's mayor recently discussed some of her tough on crime initiatives. >> first, after the approval of these propositions that you

supported, it really caught attention all of the country. the new york times had this headline that i want to share with our the question, has san francisco lost liberal soul in another headline said voters make it clear san francisco could no longer be called a progressive city. what are your thoughts on that and these headlines? >> i'm glad you asked because we can't continue to allow others to define us. we have noabe values. san francisco has lead the way around criminal justice reform. in fact, we will hire people and provide them second chances and opportunities. in fact, there are people who work in the city and work for me who have previously served time and have gotten their lives on the right track. we've done a lot of great work around the things that we care about that are still very progressive around lgbt rights,

the work we do with the african-american community and others to continue to make sure that we show support. we uplift communities, but we also know that when the lines are crossed, as much of the great work we do he in san francisco, there has to be accountability, and that is what we are introducing into the equation. so we have not abandoned our progressive values. in fact, we are on track to complete our 272 reform measures under the u.s. attorney's office of department of justice reform for our police department you're going to be announcing that in april of this year when we expect to complete it. i think that it's just a cost narrative out there trying to define who we are as a city. we have not abandoned our values. host: if you have questions for rafael, the number for democrats is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. in

you can text us at (202) 748-8003. just be sure to write in your name and where you are writing in from. i want to ask you about this article in npr, pay reporting somewhere this elsewhere talking about the fact that violent crime is dropping fast in the united states, even if americans don't believe it. so back in a 2020, the united states experienced one of its most dangerous years in a 2023,a looked very different. at some point in 2022, at the end of 2020 2023 there was a tipping point. in cities big and small, violence has dropped. the national picture shows that murder is falling, setting an analysis of public data, instances of rape, robbery and

violent assault were all down. yet when you ask people about crime the perception is that it is getting a lot worse. a poll released in november 10 77% of americans believe there was more crime in the country than the year before, and 63% thought there was either a daily or extremely serious crime problem, the highest in the history going back to 2000. first of all, what do you think of this discrepancy between the actual crime statistics and how people are perceivingrime, and how does it fit in with the trends you are seeing in terms of what police are doing? guest: one thing to note, the discrepancy is not unusual. it is something that we've seen in years past, pretty much every year. and part of the reason for that is that there is a discrepancy between what the official crime statistics show and what people report in terms of actually being victimized the federal government puts out two sources of national crime data every year.

it used to be that ucr, we've now switched to the national reporting system which are the official crime reports that are given to police department around the country which are then reported to the federal government. the federal government also does crime consistently, the survey which actually asks individuals have even a victim of a crime, what crime and various questions about that, people report at a much higher having been victimized than what the official districts show and that is because the vast majority of crimes do not ultimately get reported. sue part of what we might be seeing is just a growth inarityt individuals are actually experiencing, their willingness to work. y have grown frustrated and they may believe that reporting a crime may not lead to any real fruit, so why bother?

it might be backed up by some of the statistics we see on incarceration over the last 10 years, 15 years. it is down about 24%. jail populations over that time are down about 15%. so these are not small shifts for sure. the other thing is police response times have been growing in a lot of american cities as a result of the staff just had the city of pittsburgh, pennsylvania announced that they are no to certain types of 911 calls during the overnight hours as a result of their inability to fully staff those shifts. and this is something that we are seeing in cities like new york and chicago where there is a research suggesting that as resp(xonse times grow, they are reporting rates -- reporting rates go down because people choose not to stay on scene for as long as it may take for someone to respond, particularly

for lower priority calls. so these are even just a couple of things that might be contributed to the discrepancy. but a lot of wt we are seeing is yes, homicide numbers nationally in the aggregate are down year-over-year, and they were down in funny 22 year over year, but they were up in a 2021 after going up by the largest clip that ■/■@we've ever seen in american history in 2020 which is a continuation of a trend we saw with a spike in homicides in 2016. so the reality is yes, we've seen a decline last year, but we have not yet gotten to the pre-pandemic level, the pre-2016 level. the other thing is that the national number is an aggregated number. it is important to remember that no one lives in the entirety of the united states. your perception of crime is

going to be driven by where you are at a given time. crime is a very hyper local phenomenon so it is important to understand that the number could goc[ down but there nevertheless remain jurisdictions like washington, d.c. which just hit a 20 year high in homicides last year with many numbers moving in the wrong direction. it is important to keep that in mind. host: i will point to some other data before we get to our calls and messages. the questions that you are perceiving, the associated press showing that according to an fbi report, violent crime has decreased to pre-pandemic■ leves across property crime is on the rise. violent crime, and this was a story from october 16 of last year, violent crime across the u.s. decreased, dropping to about the same level as the or the onset of the covid-19 pandemic, but property crimes rose substantial■7ly according o data and the fbi's annual crime report.

that report comes with an asterisk that some law enforcement agencies failed to provide data, but a change in collections methods help so that covers about 83% of all agencies , covering more than 93% of the violent crime dropped by 1.7%, rate decreased by 5.4%. aggravated assault by 1.1 percent but robbery increased by 1.3%. but going down here though, despite the waning violence, property crimes jumped by 7.1% with motor vehicle theft showing the biggest increase, up 10.9%. the fbi said carjackings increased to 8.1% from 2021 and the vast majority of carjackings involving an assailant with a weapon. someone was injured in more than a quarter of all carjackings. ■fannumbers before we go to questions? guest: i think it's important

that some of the violent crime numbers are certainly going up and e overall category is largely a function of just a couple of those categories. for the subcategories that have reached pre-pandemic levels, i want to make this point. i think it is important that having entered the sort of mainstream of this debate, we are comparing current violent crime numbers, particularly the homicide category, to the pre-pandemic era. we have to understand is that in particularly large american cities, there have been a shift in the amount of time that people spent in blic spaces where they might be victimized. we are all spending much more time at home. if you look at new york city, they did a survey early last year and found that only about 9% of new york city office workers were going into the office five days a week. on a given workday, only about

50% of office workers were in the office. ip is down about 30% compared to 2019. but traffic down about 30% compared to 2019. wh of that means is that with people spending more time indoors, less time commuting to work, less time on public transit, less time shopping in person, that means that the opportunities for victimization have been lessened. so the one number comparison needs to reflect a desire to actually control the amount of time that people are spending in public and there is recent research on this is published in the national academy ofciences which actually did this for 2020. 2020 was an odd year, the largest increase in homicides, but we saw an overall drop in crime and a lot of that is due to the ship in terms of the pandemic shutdown and how much time people are spending at home.

when they actually control for that in their even in the crime categories that drop, namely robbery and assault, the risk of position increased by between 50% and ready percent in the three studies they studied. and given that any a lot of cities it still has not fully recovered in terms of foot traffic, public transit ridership and in office work, i think we have to start reading the wrong numbers and looking differently, particularly when we are comparing them to pre-pandemic numbers. host: lots of questions from the audience, let's start with vivian in tennessee on the democratic line. caller: good morning, how are you all doing? my speech is a little impaired, i've been to the hospital. i hope you can understand me. host: we can understand you quite well, thanks for coming in. caller: i was calling for some comments, also. my comments is why are they

letting all of these guns in our cities, and drugs? every night it is a killing here in tennessee. i don't hear anybody saying anything about that. she is a republican. she has not said anything about this. being killed from stray bullets. something has got to be done. the guns by the people, they need gun shows to sell these guns to the gang members. our state don't want to tell the truth, it is happening. i had a nephew who got killed. was in a gang, was find drugs, selling them and buying guns from the gun show. until they stop■i that, it is going to keep on happening. we've got police giving these boys guns.

you all -- host: let's go ahead and let raphael respond to that. guest: i think there has been quite a lot of focus on the pockets of tennessee which of the reason the state legislature has been leading the country in terms of actually moving back. requires individuals who have been convicted of serious tell these to serve 85% of their . i don't know if your viewers have heard about this. a child named jane perkins was 11 years old and was murdered last week apparently by a man who had just been released from prison the day before. despite serving only about half the sentence he was ultimately given for a home invasion. and it is important to know that

that individual was according to the chicago sun-times actually initially paroled in october, violated his parole which returned in february, and the boy was killed in an attack that was apparently aimed at his mother who was pregnant and was wounded. and she had asked the court for an order of protection while this individual was serving time for the parole violation and that was denied because he was incarcerated but he was released just weeks later. now this child is dead. that is the kind of hole in the criminal justice system that we ought to be focusing on the truth is that the research just doesn't back the idea that guns in private circulation is driving this problem which is very hyper concentrated, much more concentrated with the amount of gun ownership. the real problem i think is the fact that we have not held repeat offenders accountable. if you look at americans,

washington, d.c., the typical homicide suspect has 11 prior arrests. in chicago, it is 12. baltimore, about 10. same thing in oakland. what that tells you is that the police are doing a pretty good job using resources to try to take people who are chronic offenders off the streets, and -- to keep those individuals behind bars. that is where the real gap is in the public safety policy that we just referred to is really coming from. host: let's go to connie in west virginia on the republican line. caller: hello. yes, my opinion is the reason why we have defunded the police departments in the a lot of democratic states and cities, new york city, for example, they defunded the police department and then they mandated shots with people, with the police and

emts and all the officials of the of them didn't take shots, they quit their jobs, and then they didn't get rehired because they defunded the police department. and they don't prosecute the criminals, like you said. some of them probably just get let go. 't have a country, we have millions of people that came in here from 160-some different countries and because of that, they are criminals, a lot of them are. host: as far as defunding the police idea, what has actually happened throughout the country? guest: it is kind of hard to say because you have to sort of rely on local news reports. we have 18,000 police departments across the country, i can't say that i can speak to it is true that in 2020, it was

about $1 billion. you have the lapd budget/five a substantial amount. i'm assuming some other departments around the country. and a lot of people set of making a lot of hey around the fact that the spending number ultimately reflect a lot of prior budget use. because of protest and all these other increased man's for police service. but i do think that the defunding efforts particularly in new york, l.a. and minneapolis have very real effects particularly in that they resulted in the income of --, which delayed the gap-feeling. i think it has contributed pretty significantly to the fact this entire country is now seeing a police recruitment and retention crisis. one, i think it substantially

exacerbated the crisis by cutting academy classes, but it also sends a signal to people who are considering that line of work that society no longer values police. that police are seen as the enemy in a lot of places. for individuals who are kind of on the margins of making that decision, for individuals who have other options they may have beenservice for that kind of roi think they are dissuaded from taking that job. that is an important aspect that is going to be the hard to measure, for sure. but it is a real phenomenon, and something we have to consider. but in terms of effect on overall crime, it's going to be hard to say. at least at the national level, my guess is it didn't register very much. my focus is fully on the broader policies. in akron, ohio. go ahead and print line. caller: wow.

you know the top 10 states in the country gun violence and crimes are all red states. news, you think that all the crime is in chicago and new york and those places. and i was listenint exactly whe, from a red state, republican, and they believe that because of the news media, over 94% of the news is controlled by the right wing. and so we get a bad reputation in our democratic cities as if we're the only ones committing the crimes, when the biggest problem is we have politicians who are promoting gun violence by stating that you must arm yourselves, you must protect yourself, because the troops are

not doing a good job for the criminal system is working against you. this is being promoted on a let's get our guest at of chance to respond to that. can you talk a little bit about the distribution of crime in this country? there is a lot of emphasis on decline in cities but can you talk about crime elsewhere? guest: crime is certainly concentrated in large, urban enclaves, accounting for the majority of homicides. and within the, crime is very substantially concentrated host: is that to do with the distribution of population? guest: in terms of actual rate. as part of the population distribution, but not entirely. i will give you an example that you explain why. in new york city, the manhattan institute published an analysis called the rule of crime

concentration, and he has done this analysis which has been replicated in cities across the country and that analysis tends to show that in every city about 9% streets see about 50% of all the crime. segments, and a street segment would be quarter to quarter. 1% sees 25% of all of our violent crime. specifically to the point addressed by the caller, this idea of red state murder problem is kind of a meme that was created during the midterm election season, and seemed to take hold in some places. but when you dig into the numbers, playing the game of using these statewide numbers given the fact that crime is very hyper concentrated, but wer rates are driven largely by the blue city within those red states and then you actually look at the cities in the new

york post. they are home to 50.3% of the country's population, about 34% ofhe countries murders. democratic cities, only 14 have republican mayors. if you look at the homicide rate for the blue cities, it wasper . read cities, 9.4. so that doesn't necessarily mean that every blue city is going to be a crime dystopia. it doesn't mean that every red city is going to perform significantly better. my opinion is that it is a much more constructive conversation if we just focus on the policies, the relationship between the policies in any jurisdiction red or blue.

density provides a level of anonymity they need to get away with certain types of offensive which is one of the reasons why the 1920's saw such a big crime increase. crime is a national problem insofar as i think we all have a stake in keeping our streets safe. host:q-h with the minutes we hae before we have to let you go, i want to ask you a couple questions on social media should police for unlawful arrests, abusing and killing unarmed pedestrians and motorists? guest: of coand ey are. host: how much time have you spent studying the most dangoustate in america. hint, it is n a blue state, it is alaska having the higst combined violence and property crime rate out of any state? guest: so al has long been

one of the countries most dangerous state and also one of the most -- states. i don't think those things are unrelated. the new york times magazine did a profile on the states and their policing problem, and that is the unfortunate reality, that should be addressed. a given jurisdiction may be the most dangerous in terms of rate does not necessarily in that that jurisdiction accounts for most of the countries crime problem with a relatively low-populated state in terms of the share of the countries that it sees, far more people died in large american cities, places like chicago, baltimore, adelphia, los angeles. host:■é robert douglas asks what

would you save the greatest this in crime nowadays and how much has that impotence change from what was a decade ago? guest: the greatest driver of crime has always been the degree to which the criminal justice system is going to hold repeat offenders accountable. the reality is that the crime is driven by a very small slice of the population. studies show something like 1% of the country's population accounts for about 60% of the crime and in american cities like oakland, whicha problem ant 0.1% of the city population is responsible for a majority of the homicides area you're talking about a population of individuals who have communicated. criminal conduct that they do not intend to play by societal rules. fferent from 20 years ago it today is that 20 years ago we made a very concerted position that we were going to hold these individuals accountable with significant and

lengthy prison sentences that incapacitated them from harming their community. and we stopped doing that, and that is one of the reasons we seen about a 25% decline over the last 15 years. 50% decline in the jail population over the last 15 years. those are the trends that i think need to be reversed, particularly because the communities beg harmed are the most vulnerable communities in the country. yes, we have a national crime problem, but the reality is that that crime problem is a burden that is disproportionately on the shoulders of low income minority communities in the country. one of the things that you don't really hear much about his a lot of people are saying that crime spiked in the 90's and that is true in the aggregate, but we don't live in the aggregate and that wasn't true for every population. for black men, they may have peak in 2021 compared to 1990. host: mike in new jersey wants

to know how much money is spent yearly on settlements for law enforcement abuse, and does that play an issue in justice reform? guest: it's hard to say, i don't know what the national number is. britt big city like new york and the hundreds of millions of dollars. the settlements don't necessarily always reflect wrongdoing which is considered important. sometimes it is just cheaper to settle a suit than to fight it. i would caution against 100% of settlement viewed as wrongdoing. but it is part of the job. police are human, they are going to make mistakes. sometimes those mistakes are made in good faith and sometimes there reflect malice. what we do know is that the majority of those mistakes when a lawsuit is filed result in some kind of recovery. we know that we have accountability. society is to maintain a database of lawsuits filed

nk when they stopped tracking if there were something like 2400. only about 4% resulted in favorable police defendants. there is quite a lot of accountability in that state. i'm not sure there are any that would handset reproductive --. a lot of people probably have gh qualified immunity in mind but that only comes into play in about 3.5 percent of cases filed against police officers and is not a particularly consequential doctrine in my opinion, particularly given the fact that the main protection for police is it doesn't come from qualified immunity from identification which is the practice of the music television question footing the bill for any lawsuit or settlement against a police officer. host: we will squeeze in a couple more calls. richard in massachusetts on the independent line. caller: good morning.

i have a quick question. my comment is just this past week, a teenage girl was raped by an immigrant from haiti that had come over recently, and my question is the foreign government in haiti right now and a t of the state military aid and also immigrant men that are coming over, how is that increased the number of violent crimes that happen in the united states? rape of a teenage girl, you hear something like that happens and it is really awful. host: let's let rafael respond. guest: it is certainly awful anytime you have one of these cases. many people aware, but it is too

early to say. my guess is the effect of immigration on the countries crime level, it is probably not larger to register. that doesn't mean that we should keep the border essentially wide open, and that doesn't mean that theto this country intend to and will feel the same. such a disk tradition, and what i need by that is that crime is something that is usually driven by a very small slice of a given population, and i think that is probably true for the immigrant as well. host: last call for now, susan is in connecticut on the democratic line. susan, are you there? can you hear me? caller: great.

i think a part of the problem we have is that we started out the war on drugs arrestieo for neurological and other health issues, and then what happened is we have a reaction where the crime rate is going up ■j,violently because of the neurological problems these people have and we are putting them all in the same block. the violent criminals like different from the people who are doing drugs and i think we have that kind of reaction to all the crimes. i was just wondering what your thought on that was. we need to take a violent crime and separated -- separated from the other types of crime. guest: the biggest problem with that framing is that it fails to recognize that criminals don't specialize. there's a ton of overlap between people who commit violent and nonviolent crimes. if you look at the typical prisoner, about two thirds of themapons offenses.

on average, prisoners have between 10 and 12 prior arrests and five or six prior convictions. you see this when you just break out the drug offenders are incarcerated specifically. population is primarily for drugs. recidivism, about 75% of them will be arrested for a nondrug crime and more will be rearrested for a violent crime specifically. an analysis of homicide with at least one prior drug arrest. so yes, there's just a lot of overlap. the idea that these are static categories is unfortunately just not in mind with -- in line with the data. host: thank you so much to rafael mangual who is also the author of the book "criminal injustice."

guest: thank you so much. host: coming up we will be joined by national integration foreign president jenny murray will talk about her group's role in the immigration and security debates here in washington first, a bit of time in open forum which will be your chance to weigh in on any political or public affairs topic on your mind this morning. the numbers are on your screen, you can start calling in now. announcer: celebrating the 20th an annual studentcam documentary competition this year, c-span asked middle school in haskell student across the country to look forward while considering the■ past, highlighting the milestone of the anniversaries. each participant was given the option to look 20 years into the future or 20 years into the past. in response, we received inspiring and thought-provoking documentaries from more than 3002 arrived students -- 3200

student across 42 states. students tackled critical topics such as technology and social media. >> it has already started replacing humans in certain jobs, eliminating entire fields of work. >> challenges in climate. >> our tapestry can no longer sustain the richness and diversity it once held. >> discussions about criminal justice, race, bias, and the american criminal justice system. >> we are excited to share the top winners of studentcam 2024. in the middle school division, the first prize goes to isaac rendered middle school in mountain view, california. the documentary, ai reshaping americus tomorrow delves into the evolving world of artificially telling. the high school eastern division's fit prize is awarded to montgomery blair high school in silver spring, maryland for his film "the promise of langley park."

breanna johnson and lisa really in troy, michigan claimed the first prize in their high school central division. in the high school western division, brandon james and max writer from palo alto senior high school in california earned first prize for threa of change which takes a critical look at the fashion industry and our top award of $5,000 for a grand prize goes to nate coleman and dash, 10th graders at western paschal in connecticut. their compelling documentary infantile hostage, navigating past and future conflict with iran deals with a timely and sensitive subject and features interviews with a former iranian hostage. >> instead of saying you are free to leave, i was blindfolded, handcuffed, thrown in the back of a car and taken straight prison. >> it brings me great show a out

of 3200 students in this competition this year, you guys of the grand prize winners. >> my god, thank you. this is a huge honor. we are so grateful for this opportunity, really. t. >> we extend our gratitude to the educators, parents and participants who have supported each of these young filmmakers on their creative journeys. congratulations to all the winners. don't miss out. the top winning documentaries will be broadcast on c-span starting april 1, but you can catch each of the award-winning studentcam films online anytime. join us in celebrating these young minds as they share their opinions on the issues that are important to them and affect our world. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are in open form ready to

hear your thoughts on policy news to start the day. we'll start with joe in florida on the independent line. good morning, joe. caller: if i'm reading correctly, isn't it true that iran was broke when trump was president, then biden lifted the sanctions, allowing them to sell millions of barrels of oil, and now they finance hezbollah, hamas? they took the -- off of trump's terrorist watchlist and now we are in the red sea with cattle ships and aircraft carri missilt cost millions of dollars we started this war in israel, i of dollars, thousands of died. now he wants the army corps of engineers to spend two months to build a pier to distribute 2 million meals a day. this is costing us trillions of dollars. all the destruction and the lives are biden's falso, in ukrd

putin for three months station 150,000 troops on ukraine border. he did nothing to deter him and then he said it was a minor incursion. that country is destroyed. trillions of dollars are being spent to rectify in not deterring putin. in 2017 when ukraine asked for weapons, trump immediately without hesitation gave them javelin missile, lethal weapons and stop putin from invading. in a 2014, putin took crimea right out from obama's nose. obama did nothing about it. as far as the water goes, remain in mexico kept families tet sepe same goes with building to waltz. biden fired nurses,

firefighters, military for not wearing a mask. don't forget that. that is a dictatorship. host: you asked a couple of questions and i've been looking for some additional information as you were chatting. in regards to around, i will go to an article from politico that said trump-biden camps trade blame over who ledoblem. one expert says both sides are fitting as presidential election rhetoric heats up. advisers to donald trump and joe biden are trading jabs of which president is more to blame for iran's deadly actions as both men headed toward a rematch in november. this is an article from january. the accusations, the white house weighs in on its response to drone attacks that killed three soldiers in jordan that particular weekend. the military and policy decisions leading up to last weekend's violence general

, biden's lifting of sanctions on iran, trump's withdraw from the 2015 nuclear deal, biden's response to her-back attacks on u.s. troops. each of these actions involved iran or staved ofwar dependin on who you ask. when it comes to iranian policy, both sides are right in some respects and wrong in others. he mentioned ukraine aid as well. there were some weapons under the trump administration ukraine. there was also the story from 2019 about trump holding up ukraine military aid meant to confront russia. trump administration has a slow walking 250 million dollars in military assistance to ukraine, annoying lawmakers and advocate to argued the funding is critical to keeping russia at bay, one of many moments in the long run up to the war in ukraine.

next up, the tear from jane in cleveland, ohio on the line for democrats, good morning. caller: i'm actually calling in response to the speaker you just had on about increasing policing. i spent 40 years in the mental health field as a social worker, family therapist and family therapy trainer. i believe really strongly in community-based approaches, so i am biased, but i just wanted to put his policing policies that he indicates in context of poverty, housing, drugs and guns. when people are expected to play by society's rules in the u.s., those rules are welfare for the

rich. money goes to the top in this country to a great extent, and policies allow that. and housing is such a racket that we need to look at why there are more people on the streets. housing policies, housing is price way out of. and then it drugs and guns are two big industries in this country, and a profit the rich very much while creating mental health issues for huge numbers of people. so it is almost impossible for people to avoid mental illness these days, and we need to look at what he was saying in the context of our larger policies in this country that create

poverty and misery for so many people. what are we going to do about those policies? host: david is in riverside, california on the line for republicans. caller: i was disappointed to see vice president kamala harris become the first vice president to visit an abortion clinic. it was a planned parenthood where they also give out puberty blockers to boys so they cannot become men andls so they cannot become women. maybe you think roe v. wade should not have been overturned, but it was a bad law. it had no basis in law. where is the sense that babies have value? all former fetuses. kamala harris is. so is joe biden. a lot people support other people's abortions.

they are forgetful of where they come from. >>ar mike is on illinois. -- host: mike is in illinois. caller: i would like to challenge the new york times stories are saw last week. one had to do with a pizza parlor owner running for office in georgia. she says the reason she is running is because her state has secret laws and agreements and whatnot. what are the secret laws and agreements that other states do not know about? i love to know that. and the glamour is asian -- glamorization because our local and state police are not allowed to. that is totally -- host: totally what? caller: totally wrong.

we cannot patrol but the federal government can bring in i.c.e. agents into each state to police them? i believe this is part of the federal government attacking the 50 states along with the voting laws that they are trying to get -- to keep certain people out by attacking the laws. this is all the federal government attacking the city states and now the i.c.e. agents being inserted in each state. host: coming up in a little bit, we will have a conversation about immigration. i'm sure it will come up, the division between federal and state responsibilities when it comes to immigration. let's hear from john on our line for republicans. caller: the gentleman you just had on, the young man, i have seen him many times. what is s rafael mangual.

caller: i have seen him ny times on c-span. it is frustrating to see him saying these things. he hash clean, scientific understanding, social sciences, but -- host: your line is really hard to hear. maybe we can get you on a clearer line. let's go to jean and kansas on our line for democrats. caller: i wanted to share my experience. i am a democrat. i love biden. with the poll numbers and everything, i have been worried, but i was a volunteer for calling for the presidential primary preference. i had 200 democrats to call and

i could not get off the line because every single person i could get through to was so furious at trump and loved biden so much. i could not hang up. there one guy, a young man in tennessee, and he said i cannot believe these idiots with trump signs everywhere. this is a young man from kansas. they are all democrats. kansas is as republican as you can get. i would like to share one call that was kind of typical. it was a 70-year-old who was a democrat and he loved biden. he just loved biden. the reasons were because of what he had done for our country and that medicare d finally talk with pharmaceuticals like the v.a. and he lists all these people who know why they love biden, all the reasons. but he says his father was a

republican, 90eabeen a republic, a military man, and he said his 90-year-old father had heard what trump had done and he was voting for biden. i do not get it because polls show biden is down but every person i call was so fired up. on a scale of one to 10, they were a thousand. they can hardly wait. every single one of them are going to vote for biden in the election. host: the latest polling from real clear politics, which shows the latest polls from a variety of organizations. if you look at the reuters poll on friday, march 15, that shows biden up about two points. trump versus biden, that is a

local poll that shows trump with an advantage of six points. in florida, truck with an advantage -- trump with an advantage. in ohio and a couple other looking at these polls. that is the latest one there. let's hear from becky in massachusetts on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: it is pronounced leominster. everybody makes that mistake. the reason i am calling -- a couple things. i would likely -- like to address the fact that i would personally like to see two people at a time from congress from different sides and i would like to alan dershowitz and

the blonde lady who is also a constitutional lawyer teaching at some college. c-span has had her on many times. i would like to speak about last week. a gentleman called in and said he had a 10th grade education and than a woman called in to say how dumb he was because he stated information about biden caller: -- about biden's daughter. the lady called in and said that biden's daughter died in an accident and how stupid he was. will how stupid is she? because had a daughter with dr. jill who is still alive

, which we never hear about, but she is the one that wrote the diary about biden taking a shower with her but whether that is true or not. she is a daughter. and john was the host at that time and should have spoken and said i think he was referring to dr. jill's. he didn't have to agree with either gentleman's conversation. sometimes a little truth added should have been. i hope other people realize that biden does have a daughter with dr. jill. just because we never hear her name or anything -- host: i had not heard that either. thanks for your call. don in new mexico on our independent line. caller: good morning. i found your previous guest to be inherently dishonest.

if you look at crime and the population, the top five cities are st. louis, detroit, baltimore, memphis, and little rock. there is this tendency to focus on chicago and new york and other cities of that nature. in this breakdown, chicago is 20th. also in crime statistics, they are inherently racist. i want to point to the number one city on the list, st. louis, missouri. if we remember the killing of the black man in st. louis, ferguson was outside of st. louis. what we learn from the analysis of st. louis or ferguson was that the police department were using -- picking up and giving citations as a way to bolster

their finances. if you want an honest discussion of crime, i suspect -- i suggest you read the condemnation of blackness. he looks at how crime been focused at black people. we do not think of donald trump as a criminal, but he has -- crime is also white. that is an example of white crime. host: next is mike in texas on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i lost my job years ago. i worked for a company. it was due to china's unfair trade practices. i would love to see democrats

focus more on the issue of trade. a lot of my friends crossed over the border for trump on the issue of trade. he did not deliver but he had the right message. i wish democrats would speak to people like me that work with their hands. it would benefit them greatly. it is also a national security issue. if we got into a war, we would not be able to produce enough aluminum for our military and that is just a fact. i wish democrats would focus more on issues like that on trade and i think they could be trump, especially in rust belt states like michigan, pennsylvania. though states are crual. democrats have to have those states to be trump. i wish they would reach out to people like me. i could tell them how to win on issues like that. host: thank you for the call.

let's hear from carson in tennessee on our republican line. good morning, carson. can you hear us? caller: -- all these illegals coming across the border to that lady in kansas. host: is that your comment? caller: you hear me. host: mark is in california on our line for independents. caller: the former guest was embarrassing got to talk about crime and its aftermath. a lot of our dysnc and problems trace back to the -- the liberalization of our values , when america said yes to drugs. host: ok. all right. thank you, mark.

.ghear from mark in south carolina. caller: i just heard a trump speech and he is threatening a bloodbath if he does not win. since when does the united states to a threat? thank you. host: thank you for your call. next, we are going to turn our attention to immigration and border security debates here in washington with jennie murray, pridmigration forum. we will be right back. ♪ >> this week, the house and senate aren ssion tuesday. both chambers will focus on passing spending bills to avoid

a partial government shutdow onuesday, a retired general anformer chair of theoint chiefs of staff testify before the house foreign affairs committee on the biden administration's withdrawal of u.s. forces from afghanistan in 2021. wednesday, the house oversight committee investigates possible abuses of publichunter biden wao attend but declined. jerome powell holds his quarterly press conference following an open market committee meeting. thursday, jane yellen and the director of the office of management andudt testify before the house appropriations subcommittee on financial services and general government. on president biden's proposed budget. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. go to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or

c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> tonight on q&a, growing up as a chstem. the hurdles he overcame to become successful and what he learned about class division in america as a result. >> lived in seven homes just shy of five years. there is this question of why does the system work this wa if a child is in one placement for too long, it can create issues of attachment and loyalty. if fd is with a foster family for six months or a year and they become comfortable and devoted to this family and suddenly a family member returns, often the child does not want to leave. the system has resolved this by

frequently placing in different environments such that there is never any potential issues with loyalty or devotion or conflict between foster families and birth relatives. and i think maybe it sounds nice in the abstract but often it just introdus stabilitand difficulty. >> rob henderson tonight on c-span's q&a. you can listen to all our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are joined now by jennie murray, presid ceo of the national immigration forum. welcome to the program. caller: thank you for having me. -- guest: thank you for having me. we are a 41-year-old organization that advocates for the value of immigrants and immigration for our nation.

we do it in a uniqueay. we are 41 years old. for many years, we have been the forum where the right and left come together and we still do a lot of that work. for the last 15 years, we have been lifting of voices that are center-right that we know are pro-immigration reform, so we get a chance to work with a lot of corporate leaders, law enforcement leaders, national security experts, and even faith leaders. we come at it from a unique perspective. what we love about that is reminding americans and leaders that most of the country supports immigration reform and constructive solutions that advance immigrants and offer humane solutions as well. and we get our funding mostly philanthropically. we mostly our grant funded an individual donor funded. host: do you endorse candidates

or anything like that? guest: we do not. we lift up ideals and principles. anyone who wants to come and be constructive on forming solutions that are sensible, secure, but also humane. the more people at the table, the better. we are not into the game of selecting candidates or partnering with any political party. host: your organization released a better way forward 202guest: . it is no shock to say that the rhetoric is difficult on immigration. we have noticed the tone has become increasingly difficult for the last several years. we wanted to do in this election cycle and with the tension of the moment is remind folks of our better ideals cannot to lift

up six principles we believe are the most important principles now on creating a way forward together on immigration reform. so we lifted these up. we are getting them out on social media and interviews like this but also all our leaders, business leaders, faith leaders, are also sharing these principles. host: i'm looking at them on your website now. number one, show compassion and justice to long-term residents, including dreamers, by allowing lawful status and citizenship. continue our moral leadership in the world as a welcoming and compassionate nation that offers refuge to the persecuted. three, honor the human dignity of all people through our words and actions. address the need for safety and security on the border and in our communities. enable fair and orderly legal immigration that continues to solidify our global economic leadership and defend

long-standing constitutional principle of birthright citizenship. can you talk about why these are your priorities now? guest: we think these are the most important things given the times -- challenges we have now. we are faced now w 100 million displaced people around the world. to help folks understand that stat, in 2014 we were around 20 million displaced people in the world. we are now over 100 million, so this is a moment where the u.s. as a global leader needs to remember a couple important things. what makes us great and what we need to continue to thrive and also our role as a global citizen and what we should be doing. we have so many resources, so we should be a big player in leading the way.

>> the bipartisan senate bill to deal with border security collapsed. do you expect any relevant immigration legislation to make it through in an election year? guest: we applaud the bipartisan senate bill they drafted and proposed and it was a compromise. compromises are something we have gotten away from, meaning everyone gives up a little bit and gained a little bit. we were in a good, bipartisan place on that. we were sad to see it end and not move forward to a vote, but we think it was a beginning and not an end. it has educated congress on real solutions and allowed us to point to the fact that bipartisan legislation on immigration is possible. it can come together quickly, in

a matter of weeks. that shows us there is appetite and a number of other solutions now that are out there. we are hopeful we can see something within the calendar year. the afghan adjustment act is something everyone is behind and has only grown more bipartisan, so we think -- the afghan adjustment act is to help those allies who we evacuated to the u.s. after the fall of kabul. host: we have special phone lines for this segment. if you would like to call and you are an undocumented immigrant, that special one for you (202) 748-8003. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. re at (202) 748-8001.

independents, (202) 748-8002. and for folks who are on document immigrants, (202) 748-8003. i want to talk to you more about a piece of legislation that republicans are pushing for, which is related to immigration and crime. republicans have been critical of the parole system used in the migration process. they say some migrants are using criminal backgrounds -- with criminal background are not being vetteded into communities. they are seizing on a murder in georgia of a 22-year-old nursing student to highlight this. i want to bring in audio because last week and america first policy institute chad wolf

criticized the biden administration policy on parole and legal migration. he served as acting: secure a secretary in the trump administration from 2019 to 2021. here is the clip. >> the parole system being instituted by the biden administration is unlawful. the way they are using it -- they parole between 400,000 or more individuals into this country and parole is supposed to be on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or the public good of the country. these 400,000 people, which of those categories do they apply to? in this case, the alleged murderer of lincoln riley was paroled into the country. wo categories does that individual apply to? the answer is none of the above, so it is being unlawfully used in a way that is bypassing.

the ministrations basically saying they will never qualify for asylum, yet i walked him into our country, which is not how our laws are supposed to work. host: i'm going tpot to a tweet from march 7. its official. the lake and riley -- laken riley act passed. can you talk about that piece of legislation? >> thank you for that question. the issue is larger than just this bill. first, i am sad about what happened to liken -- laken riley and her family should get justice. also it is being used as a political football. the whole population is not

represented by the actions of one individual. a majority of members actually, immigrants are less likely to commit crimes, especially undocumented. many folks are fleeing and really nervous about messing up at all and of course having to leave the u.s.. it is not a large issue, but this is a moment when we should recognize it was a tragic and horrible. we have no problem with seeing more security, but the security answer needs to be holistic. it does not need to be one small piece of legislation in reaction to parole. parole has been enacted by presidents throughout history for over 100 years in moments of crisis. it is an important tool. republicans and democrats have used it. we used it in world war two, with the cuban missile crisis,

post-vietnam war. we help folks flee and now we have done it to out of afghanistan and through other situations. so we need to use it but the president also uses it when congress is not solving the larger situation. we need to see security, but we also need to see humane practices. that is how the american people feel. there is a mismatch between our elected officials and the majority of american voters on this issue. they want balance. they want security and humane treatment. i want to point to dad about migrant encounters. at the u.s.-mexico border, which hit a record high at the end of 2023.

the u.s. border patrol had nearly 250,000 encounters with migrants crossing into the■0 vzunited states and mexico according to government statistics, the highest monthly total on record, eclipsing the previous peak of about 224 thousand encounters in may of 2022. here is a chart representing what that looks like over time. this is january of 2000 to december of 2023. and i want to highlight some terms here for the purpose of our discussion. the term encounters refers to two types of events, apprehensions migrants taken into custody in the u.s. at least temporarily to wait a decision on whether they can remain in the country legally, such as being granted asylum. apprehensions are carried out under title eight of the u.s. code. there are also explosions. are expelled to their

home country or last country of transit without being held in the u.s. andsions are carried out under title 42, a previously rarely used section of the law invoked during the early stages of the covid-19 pandemic. the law empowers federal authorities to stop migrants from entering the country if■e barring them can stop the spread of a contagious disease. the biden administration stopped the use of 20itle 42 and border patrol has been apprehending migrants within the u.s. instead of excelling them from the country. so why is it that we have reached this? peak in border crossings? guest: it is back to that pushback of 100 million displaced people. we have collapsing governments, cartel issues, wars. at least two large ones are

captivating our attention, but there are more throughout the world. people are hurting across the world. we are in a difficult place and still reeling from covid. we do not realize that as americans. we have rebounded very robustly, but so many countries around the world are still reeling post-covid. their economies are still reeling, so we have factors causing surges. what is important with what you shared is the fact that the numbers are up, but since 2020 100s of thousands of folks have been expelled, so while folks are being encountered and i hear that number being used a lot, ç■bencountered, meaning they hae presented themselves or we have captured them and then let them in, that is not what is happening. they are presenting themselves. the large majority are finding an officer and resenting themselves so they can officially apply for asylum and

then they await their court date. biometrics are taken once they have been encountered commit meeting fingerprints and photo and name. then they leave with their court date in hand, so they know when they present themselves to immigration court and are in the hands of philanthropic charities in the meantime while they are awaiting their work permit and court date, but hundreds of thousands have been expelled since 2021. the criticism and critique of the administration is not fully sharing the real data. we have large numbers. we are also telling folks they will not be eligible for asylum. host: let's start getting to people's calls. let's start with barbara in new jersey. caller: good morning. i am concerned about what is happening in this country.

from what i understand, all democrats have to do is close the border. but of course they will not do that. joe biden from the day he became president, i ththere was peopled he said, don't worry. you have a new president. you can now all come over. that is what they are doing. they are all coming over and being supported on the backs of the american citizens. i have never seen such concern to take care of these illegals, never shown such concern for the american citizen. host: let's let ms.guest: thankg your concern. i understand the challenges and concern. speaking to a few of the things

you mentioned, deterrence only does not fix the problem. so we for sure support a secure border. what that means is congress has to get many more resources bordn for advances in technology commit more officers, and to speed up processing. we need that. we also need a shortcut for the asylum process. we need folks not to have to wait for adjudication in court but to have asylum officers that can quickly let them know whether they will be qualified and put them into the process or expel them if they do not have an eligible claim. that was proposed in the bipartisan senate bill, so we need security but deterrence only -- does not solve the problem and has not solved the problem over the last 40 years. each president has tried to use deterrence and it hasn't helped. it will only compound the

problem. the other big issue is we need a million workers a yea line witht are retiring. so immigrants make up almost 18% of our working population, yet only 13% of our overall population. i do not have to tell anyone ring and need health care. there is a 40% shortage of nurses. so we need legal immigration. but we do need the best processing and most resources we can have to do that. you mentioned benefits. asylum petitioners do not access public benefits. they are not able to. that is part of the situation. many of them are waiting so long to get the immigration court dates because we are backlogged because we need better resources. as they await, they need to be able to work so they can

contribute. they want to work. but in the meantime they are not able to access public benefits. most of them are being taken care of by very small, very generous nonprofits that are trying to hold the stop gap between the american taxpayers and desperate individuals many of whom came with their 18 month old baby strapped to their back to try to make a better life. a lot of the folks that are coming. i hear your concerns, but we can be secure and humane. host: you mention families. i want to go back to research data looking at who is crossing the u.s.-mexico border. most encounters at the u.s.-mexico border, 54%, involve migrants traveling as single adults while 41% involve people traveling in families and 5%

involve unaccompanied minors. in recent months, a growing number of encounters have involve people traveling in families. in december 2023, border patrol id nearly 102,000 encounters with family members up from around 61,000 a year earlier. guest: thank you for sharing that. we work with evangelical faith leaders and lively research, they are an evangelical publishing■ house and their research is reputable among evangelicals. they found 77% of evangelicals support an immigration solution now but 80% support one that is secure borders but also humane treatment of family maze -- of families, keeping families united, and solutions that are already -- for those who are already here, like those who are brought and this is the only country they know but also other workers, including farmworkers.

so the american values really support keeping family unity, being open. 46% of the population, either children alone or families traveling with their children. together, these folks are looking for safety, . i am a mom of an eight-year-old. there is no way i would go through jungles and a dangerous country to get here with my son physically on my body and face the violence in some of these camps once they get to the border unless it was the last option for mano know that and ww that evangelicals and others really support that this is an important ideal for us and we need to be ready to be that beacon of hope we have been for nearly 300 years for so many. host: randy is in michigan on our line for democrats. caller: i would like to thank

you and your guests and all the men and women it takes to bring us this program. do you have any numbers on how many illegal or undocumented aliens were there on january 6 trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power? does all this claim by the republican party that the border is open all the time encourage the coyotes were cartel or whoever ita is that are bringing the people up to try to get in? thank you for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you for the call. i do not have the exact numbers, but i think part of what you are asking is the fact that immigrants and natural born citizens have stood side-by-side to defend this country. that is the case.

we can point back to the civil war and the korean war and the 90's and 2000s, or immigrants have made up a substantial amount of our frontline and military, so we know folks are coming to join the u.s.. they want to integrate and do make a stronger, so i think that is the point of that. i appreciate your call about the open borders. we do not have open borders. we have not since 1880. what we have is a processing system that needs more resources. i am not saying it is completely functioning at its best now. there is a challenge, but we can update it. we are a robust country with lots of resources. we have expertise to fix this.

we have legislation that let us know we can fix this. so we need, as ronald reagan said, a beautiful wall with the beautiful door that lets folks in and out so we continue to be americans. we will not continue to be the global leader that we are unless we have workers to keep our economy robust and our birth rate is low. our unemployment rate is low. open borders is something that makes people respond by saying let's close them. that is human response, but the truth is we need a secure border but a great way for folks to enter that want to make our country better. host: john is in virginia on our line for republicans. >> thanks for calling. i am a former high school social studies teacher in omaha.

we have a huge hispanic population. only half the hispanics in our country graduate from high school. we have a 50% high school dropout rate with hispanics in our country. the other thing about dreamers, one way we can solve this is if they graduate from high school they can go to the military. that is one part of it. i do not think we should give them citizenship on a silver platter. work for it, either join the military or go to the peace corps can't go overseas and help develop those countries or build their economy. even in america, there is numerical core -- the miracle core. we can have them earn their way as a citizen.

they were small children with their parents brought them here, but they have to earn their way as far as being american citizens and i think there are ways we can. the other thing that i disagree with you, go to virginia and you will see a lot of african-americans who are homeless because they cannot jobs and these jobs for our citizens should be given to them. there is another way that many immigrants who want to come to ou country, there is a country just like america called canada. they have a chronic population and labor shortage. there immigration law is more liberal than ours. host: you have raised points. let's let ms. murray respond. >> thank you for your service as an educator and for lifting up dreamers. if you look at the stats of dreamers alone, they are accomplished individuals.

and folks that we won -- if we were not able to keep them or allow them to be authorized to work in the u.s., if we were to not have a solution for dreamers, we would be in a difficult place. we will lose teachers and emt workers, nurses, pastors, and the like. $?very many of them are giving back so much to america, yet there are important programs now in place, although we have kicked this can down the road for 12 years. these individuals deserve the right to be -- to feel secure, to be able to plan their futures. some of them have children now and need to know they can really give all they can fully into our society and have those permanent solutions. republicans and democrats agree on this. it is unfortunate it has been held politically hostage.

we can certainly solve this. everyone agrees on it. and then questions about who is not -- what workers are not in the workforce. the 10 million job openings are folks who are not participating in the american workforce now that already are here, so the argument of a job for everyone who is homeless or struggling with mental illness where is not participating in the workforce right now -- we still would not have the numbers we need. it is interesting you bring up canada. i was in poland on and off the first six months of the war when russia inv u warsaw and the polh government develop an immigration process. all of a sudden, they had 3.5 million immigrants, ukrainian women and children, in a matter of months in warsaw and around

that region. as we worked with them, they were recruiting the best talent they could find, letting them know they were welcome to come to canada. we were not doing that. we did not win the incredible folks that joined their country. canada is becoming an increasingly elevated mobile competitor with the u.s.. they are competing for talent for our companies. many companies are operating out of toronto because they can get the talent they need. it is a difficult situation. i agree with your point that the u.s. cannot take everyone coming to our borders. that is not what we are advocating for. we are advocating for doing our global share and responsibility. host: lynn is in california.

caller: is it against the law for somebody to cross our border illegally? guest: that is your question? caller: please do not cut me off. i am not done. guest: go ahead. i will listen to your whole question. caller: i do live in california. you are incredibly sweet and the speech you used to try to convince us all is -- this is such an amazing thing where it destroying our country with who they are letting in and you can give all the reasons of why somebody should come in here but i live in california. illegal immigrants just got expanded to medicare programs and we have some any americans that are suffering. -- so many americans that are

suffering. it is amazing to sit there and listen to you and your speech and your clarity is so good that it sounds really good but the american people are just really getting screwed over this whole immigration. i would love to have c-span to have one of the border control people on talking about the crisis, having a discussion with you tog and get both sides because you work for immigration. you do not work for the american people. you work for immigrants and the millions that have come here illegally. you can listen to the mayors of new york and chicago. host: i do want to give ms. murray a chance to respond. i want to point to an article in bloomberg looking at where new migrants go once they reach the united states. it has a helpful map showing

where new migrants registered as their last known addresses in court records, sometimes including detention centers. you can see a big concentration in california over here, also a big concentration here in the northeast, also in florida and texas. queens, miami-dade, and denver are among the counties with the highest share of migrants per capita, making up more than 2% of people in some counties. i want to read the opening paragraph. much of the angst is focus on the biggest cities in illinois and immigration court records suggest those states are the most affected. the data signaled that texas and florida, which have complained about the costs of absorbing newcomers, are among the top destinations for migrants. guest: i appreciate the call.

i am also an american. i believe wholeheartedly that this country is better because my family was allowed to come here and i am think will that they were and that i have been able to be born here and have the i have. that is the authenticity ipe shk immigration is good for our country. i wonderyour family also has been welcomed and i really think we need folks. i believe that. we are in a desperate labor shortage situation. we work with large corporations all over the country and they are desperate for workers. they are trying to figure out if they can use automation, trying to figure out which other countries they can go to to set up operations to get access to workers. they are trying to help with the inflation issues that we have an

understanding inflation. the more workers we bring into the system, the consumer has a lower price at the end of that line in the supply chain, so we know we are made better by immigrants. continue to make our military robust. we have a big recruitment issue wi there are real reasons why immigration is better for our country. talk about also where they are going and what the needs are. we are having concentrations of folks taken -- move to urban settings around the country. kirby -- california is receiving a lot of folks. that congress should put together a package of resources that allows their cities to be able to integrate folks, but we have states asking, states like

pennsylvania, ask, please send them here. we need these workers. we will welcome them. it is about making sure they go where they need to go and integrate well, making sure they have resources so they can, and also about coordination. one of the problems has been elected officials have been using this as a politicalfootbay from their states and not coordinating with elected officials on the grounds on the ground with a are sending them and that creates chaos that is not good for anyone. the talking points now are eliciting fear in people. when you are afraid can't you cannot rationalize. that is just physiology. your brand does not allow you to rationalize. when we say people are pouring in and we cannot meet the need, it is not accurate. we are a large company with a

lot of resources. we can and should -- they have solutions on the table. we can take a moment to approach this. host: i want to point to an article in the washington post. the economy is roaring. immigration is a key reason. momentum in the job market picked up over the last■ year while washington is deadlocked on a border deal and immigration is propelled to jobs market further than anyone expected, helping cement the economic rebound from the pandemic is the most robust in the world. that momentum picked up over the past year. about 50% of the labor market's recent growth came from foreign-born workers between january 2023 and january 2024, according to economic policy institute analysis of federal data. even before that, by the middle of 2022, the foreign-born labor

force had grown so fast it closed the labor force gap created by the pandemic, according to research. immigrant workers recovered faster than nativeborn workers from the pandemic disruptions and many saw some of the largest wage■i gains and industries eagr to hire. economists say the surge in employment was key to solving unprecedented gaps in the's economy that threatened the country ability to recover from prolonged shutdowns. guest: that is a wonderful article. politico had a similar article that saidha -- they related it more deeply, to those folks who had come in from afghanistan, ukraine, from those me tension and also the new countries the president expended

parole to. we know these workers have helped us rebound. many of the immigrant workers that have helped us rebound have been the ones that have gone back in person and we have been able to have our stores open, many of our in person operations open because of immigrant workers mostly. so many of the nativeborn population have remained hybrid or remote. host: we will get to a few more callers. doug is on our line for democrats. caller: thank you for the program. i want to mention ever since trump's inauguration, when he had a complaint with the media about the number of people at his inauguration, he said we have alternative facts. today is march 17, not april 1.

it is not april fools' day. mr. biden did not appear to the border can come over. there are zero people that are illegal immigrants that were involved on january 6. the fbi, homeland security have been queried about it multiple times. check the congressional record. our raft is filled in prisons private and federal of people who come here but we do not have enough space for them because we have so many people because of our trade policiesx÷ have gone back for many years. and took away their livelihood and you have the climate crisis. as far as crime and the rest of it, in the 1we deported a bunch of people that came from those three countries. host: do you have a question? caller: my question is, why do

we not have context on these things? i listened to people talk and they act like people spring fully clothed. guest: this is a perfect example of us breaking through that. we have republicans, democrats, independents, and undocumented folks calling in. we are having an honest conversation and it is just not happening now in our country. like one set of facts do not match the other, because we are speaking in echo chambers in many cases and gravitating only to maybe our party or people giving us one set of facts. that is why i feel confident sitting before you sing together we are nonpartisan advocating on

behalf of the value of immigrants and immigration to our country. we have evangelical pastors sitting by my credit leaders there together saying we all agree on this. 86% of the country, according to a bulfinch polling a few years ago, support this. they support democrats and republicans working together to solve the challenges at the border with more security to help with immigration opportunities so we can combat inflation but also be humane so we can continue to be who we have been for so long as america , so that is what i want to lift what is happening as politicians and other leaders are telling us that we are divided. it is just not the truth. once you pull people on the real issues, you will find out americans are aligned. host: we are going to hear from

david in new jersey on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: i hope you will give me as much time as you gave that guy from staten island. host: we only have two minutes. caller: ok. my question is why not go back to the remaining mexico policy? that would stop almost all of this nonsense. i want to point out she keeps talking about jobs. the 10 million job openings, whatever the number is, these people are not going to fill those jobs. those are highly skilled manufacturing type jobs that require at least a bachelors degree. what about the people that are waiting for years to come here illegally? you keep using the word immigration. i am not concerned about immigration. i am concerned about illegal immigration. those are my questions.

guest:he last one first, we do not have a line. we have many lines. we have lots of these opportunities in the u.s., lots of ways folks can apply to become americans and can get into the system. there are employment visas. there are spouse visas. there are a number of skill level visas and humanitarian visas. it is a whole alphabet soup. those folks are not waiting in one line. they each have their own processing procedureswaiting in, if you will come into use the same terminology. we agree that right now we have not reopened legal immigration so we are still constricted in some cases 60% in our legal immigration lines and channels

and that is why people are over depending on asylum, because that is one of the open opportunities protected under international law. if we got more resources at the border and were able to quickly weed out credible fear for those who are eligible for asylum and also open our legal immigration pathways back to where they were pre-covid, we will solve so much of this situation. we will be able to allow folks to come in legally. i appreciate that question. host: there are more questions we would love to get to, but we are out of time for today. thank you so much, jennie murray. i really appreciate your time this morning. thanks to everyone who called in with your thoughts and comments and questions. please stay tuned. tomorrow morning, we will be back with another edition of washington journal. have a great day.

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