♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, march 30. we followed several news items this week, including the bridge

collapsed in baltimore and the federal response. the supreme court heard or world arguments on access to the abortion pill mifepristone. an april 15 is the date set for donald trump's first criminal case in new york. this morning we would like to hear what you thought was the top news story for the past week. democrats, call us on (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. and independents it is (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. include your first name and city/state. and we are on social media. facebook.com/c-span and x, @c-spanwj. a blessed easter weekend for those celebrating. let's start with that bridge collapsed. here is a portion of a news

briefing given by governor of maryland, wes moore, talking about the latest efforts at the wreckage site. governor moore: i have been told by the navy they are supplying us with cranes. two have already arrived. one arrived tonight and the fourth is arriving on monday. one of the cranes is a -- is called the chesapeake 1000, and it can lift about 1000 tons. but the big part, and one of the challenges, is that the key bridge, which sits on top of the vessel right now, that weight is somewhere between 3000 and 4000 tons. our team needs to cut that in sections in a safe, responsible, and efficient way before can lift those pieces out of the water. this crane we are looking at is massive. the thing we also know is this.

so is the challenge ahead of us. so in the coming weeks we expect to have the following entities inside of the water. seven floating cranes, 10 tugs, nine barges, eight salvage vessels, and five coast guard boats. i have said before, i will say it again, and i will keep on saying it. this is not just about maryland. this mission is not just about maryland. and what we are talking about today is not just about maryland's economy. this is about the nation's, -- economy. the port handles more cars and farm equipment than any other port in this country. at least 8000 workers on the docks have jobs that have been directly impacted by this collapse.

our economy depends on the port of baltimore, and the port of baltimore depends on vessel traffic. maryland's economy and maryland's workers rely on us to move quickly. but that is not just maryland. the nation's economy and the nation's economy and the nations workers are requiring us to move quickly. host: and we are getting your calls this morning on your top news story of the week. it is on your screen, a couple of options for you. one of them is u.s.-israel tensions. here is the latest on that. here is an article from reuters with the headline "israel asks u.s. to reschedule meeting." israel has asked the u.s. to reschedule a meeting that prime minister netanyahu had abruptly canceled in an attempt to ease

tensions with the allies. that yahoo! had called off the meeting after the u.s. had allowed passage of a gaza cease-fire resolution at the united nations on monday. marking a newartime low in his relations with president biden. also regarding that situation, here is the washington post, the front page of the washington post, and it says biden signs off on arms transfers. no conditions on supply to israel. one ton bombs linked to massive casualties. says the biden administration quietly authorized the transfer of billions of dollars in bonds and fighter jets to israel, despite washington's concerns about an anticipated military offensive in gaza that could threaten the lives of hundreds of thousands of palestinian civilians.

the new packages include more than 1800 mk 84 2000 pound bombs and 500 mk 82 500 pound bombs, according to state department officials. 2000 pound bombs have been linked to previous mass casualty events throughout israel's military campaign in gaza, and these officials, like others who spoke to the washington post on condition of anonymity, because recent authorizations have not been disclosed publicly. want to get your views on that, what you thought would be the top news story of something that happened this week and melvin is up first in richmond, virginia. caller: good morning, mimi. thank you for taking my call. my important issue for the week, and probably of the last two years is the abortion issue.

i think when history is written for the year, the election of 2024, it will show that this will be the most important issue , the issue that will save america. i believe that women will come out and vote against anyone who is trying to take away their health care. if you notice in the past few years anytime there is an special election involving women's health on the ballot, no matter what state it is in, the democrats do very well. because female turnout is always high. now, women, as you probably know, is one of the leading constituencies in the country. and when you get the situation where women's health is being

jeopardized, they will come out. 2024 will be considered the election that women showed out. stand up, ladies. it is your time to shine. thank you, mimi. host: let's to danny in yuma, arizona. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi. i'm down here in a border town, but my concern is the lawlessness of this country. what the democrats are doing to police and the citizens of new york -- not only new york, but the whole country. all of the big cities. all of their policies extinct. they are no good. the prosecutors will not prosecute the criminals. they are more in line to let the

criminals go, and the people that are subject to this violence, they have to suffer through this. now, after saying that, i think it is very telling that president trump got an invitation to go to the wake of that brave policeman who was murdered, and kathy hochul was turned away. that has to tell you something. not only that, a lot of your democratic callers, god bless them, but they put their heads in the sand when it comes to immigration. you know something? they should come down here see what the hell we have to put up with. host: randall is next in michigan, independent. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. my top story deals with this trump's backlash, coming out and recognizing the holy bible is the word of god.

al sharpton made some comments in newsweek magazine as well. i was offended by the rebuke. as a christian there is the right of redemption, and president trump is just as entitled to that right of redemption as any other person. so, judging a man according to what he has done in the past, i think, is over the top. i want to relate that, though, to both of those men, to what you covered earlier, and that is dealing with israel. what is being confronted right now is -- the first thing is, the international criminal court, the international court of justice is considering what the legal status is of israel. are they occupiers?

now, i could not find mr. sharpton and mr. trump witnessing to what he did last week and stirring it up and making the claim that he is a christian. he is now confronted whether -- with whether or not he should ask the world court to delay his decision on the occupier. the present administration, president biden, has filed their response to this legal question by taking the position that the parties should be advocating towards a two state solution. and that is really what is going on in the world right now. the new world order is adopting this two state solution as a means of suppressing the jewish state. and if they succeed at doing that -- this is what they call

the new world order. in my view, it bridges the freedom of religion and, in my view, is a cornerstone of democracy. the new world order is running the flag of democracy, underneath it all it is trying to abolish the idea that god intervened, and this is the point of the holy scripture. us christians, we recognize that the bible in both the old and new testament makes it very clear that it was god's intent that this territory was to be given to the jews, the faithful jews. that is commonly called the promised land. right from the bear beginning -- from the very beginning, if you go to the archives of the united nations you will not find any reference or any authority that the jewish state of israel's

sovereignty is derived from god. host: all right, randall. randall did mention al sharpton's comments about the trump bible. i want to make sure everybody is up-to-date on that. this is the guardian. al sharpton, trump bibles spit in the face of people who believe it. the spectacle is "a spit in the face of people who really believe," according to the rev. al sharpton. he said that amid backlash. "blasphemy certainly comes to mind. he said that on msnbc. "i think people ought to realize how offensive this is to people who really believe in the bible. he's doing this during holy week. tomorrow is good friday, sunday is easter. of all the times you want to hustle using the bible, why would you do it during holy

week, which is a spit in the face of people who really believe in the bible, from a christian point of view?" jamie is calling us from superior, wisconsin. caller: throughout the last week i have been paying the most attention to the bridge collapsed that happened in baltimore. because one of the things that immediately came to mind when that story broke was, i live close to minneapolis, and of course we had that major bridge collapsed on the former i-35, and while others -- and while those situations are drastically different in terms of the cause, it definitely struck an emotional chord, and i feel for the families in baltimore that are dealing with the grief that they are undoubtedly going through. i wish the best for them. my heart goes out to the mall. host: there were six

construction workers that were killed during that time. jamie, remind me of the number of casualties from that minneapolis bridge collapse. caller: i believe at the end of the day there was 13. that could be wrong. last time i remember hearing about it there was, i believe there were 13. again, it could be wrong. host: that was in the middle of the day. i remember there was a school bus that, thankfully, the driver was able to save the kids. but i do remember that. it was definitely tragic. and gary is next in sterling, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you, mimi. that first caller we had this morning was awesome. get that man a gold star on his mother goose chart.

i'm an old-time republican, mimi. last time i talked to you was valentine's day, and i wanted to talk about the plastic cap. a famous man once said, waste not, want not. that is the way i feel about that plastic cap on the milk carton. that is high quality plastic. what a waste. it is an impediment to getting to the product, you know? if it is wet, you have to get pliers. and if the safety seal ring breaks you have to get needle nose and pull that out. and no matter how you shaken dance with the carton there is enough to stink up the pantry or under your sink. so i might call the 800 number and tell them to get rid of that plastic cap. the old way was better. you just fullback the corners

and pop out the spout, and it didn't hesitate and shoot out drops because the whole is only 5/8. why are they keeping me from my product? i could go on, mimi. host: i know. i know, gary. sometimes the old ways are better caller:. caller:amen. you girls are vivacious. man, you kick it up a notch. go, girls. host: appreciate that, gary. rory in california. public and. caller: yes, good morning. that baltimore collapse of the bridge is a tragedy, beyond doubt. however, there are things happening here in california, long beach, los angeles port. there are 11 peers, seven in long beach, four in l.a., and a

lot of ships being diverted will be here within 15 days through the panama canal, and 30 days if they go around the tip of south america. a security watchmen, which i am one of them, which are security guards, they are the ones that meet the ships, tie it off, and then stand guard and do other things. they are calling people back to work because that disaster is actually a benefit to other ports in america. thank you. that's it. host: ron is on the line for democrats in michigan. caller: good morning, mimi. didn't the chinese take control of the panama canal recently? i think they did. that attack on the bridge in baltimore -- first of all, last week the state department said the chinese are going to attack our infrastructure.

do you remember that? host: yeah. i mean, i think that the intelligence community is always saying there is a fear that there will be a cyber on critical infrastructure, from china or from russia. caller: yeah, well, infrastructure attack. we will stick with that. that was the francis scott key bridge. historic. most of our call goes through that -- coal goes to that port. that is going to take two years to rebuild. that ship captain -- i don't care which nationality he has -- he was probably gotten to buy the chinese gangs. maybe smuggling, some kind of charge. he was told to crash into that bridge, knock it out. also the chinese minister of week also made a statement saying, we have to directly attack the united states. and go into their layer he said,

in so many words. host: weight. ron. the chinese are always saying they want to attack the united states. russia as well. where are you getting this idea that the chinese controled -- controlled the captain? caller: i'm speculating. host: ok. caller: it is a conspiracy theory. just like jfk. just like the gulf of tonkin. these things happen and it is not just happenstance. host: what are your thoughts as to how to protect critical infrastructure from that? caller: well, that bridge right there it was built at a time when we built them cheap. those bridges have to be reinforced. and they've got to be protected. we have to protect our ports, plain and simple. host: what engineers are saying is that a container ship hitting the support of that bridge at

that speed, i mean there is no way you can reinforce concrete to withstand that. i think there are other things, like the tugboats, we have heard things like that. but i take your point on protecting the infrastructure. paul is an independent in connecticut. hi, paul. caller: hello, dear. thank you for your professionalism too. i might -- am i too late to call twe in 30 days? host: you have to putt on your calendar. caller: i thought we were going to go a week without the appeals to white man's burden. people that call up and they justify war crimes by israel because it is in the bible. didn't you know that?

this thing, and the confluence of trump coming out with the patriot 5-0, i think it was called, with the lyrics to a song that is probably being cheered by white nationalists all over the country in the world. where are at holy week? we are at the point of reasoning. should we go toward reason or should we go towards passions? and why is it that people have trouble distinguishing between the two? and a lot of the passions are political. people line up on one side, and then they are pigeonholed. it prevents them from the true freedom that they are talking about in our society. so, it may be a complicated

issue for a lot of people, however i would turn to this holy week. not necessarily scripture, but some of the scholars, like st. john. he talks about mann's supernatural likeness to god and the abuses thereof. let's try to separate the abuses to passion host: paul, what is your religious background? do you belong to an organized religion? caller: i do. i am a practical catholic and i'm having trouble with mcreynolds and his agent, the knights of columbus, but i belong to, because you remember the photo op leading up to the 2020 election where they allowed trump and his -- i guess one of his wives -- to go and pose

again with a bible, you know, in front of the john paul ii memorial. we lost a lot of nights because of that, because they took a political position. now, with that enough to forgo their nonprofit status? evidently not, but it was electioneering at its highest form. the catholic church is in america, is nothing but a militaries organization -- militarist organization. they push this militarism. there are zionist catholics that have infiltrated our faith. they are allowing the kind of shenanigans, the top news story of biden further arming genocide

without any controls. no controls. host: all right, paul. we will move on and take a look at the white house press secretary talking about that rescheduled meeting with israeli officials. >> our understanding is that talks are restarting between the u.s. and israel about rescheduling that meeting that was supposed to be held this week on raw file. what is the u.s. of -- on raw for -- rafa. what is the u.s.'s understanding? >> obviously him going to let the prime minister speak for himself on the first part of the question. what i can see on israel more broadly, as you asked me about meetings held here, they were constructive meetings with israel's defense minister. rafah was one of the many subjects discussed.

the prime minister's office has agreed to reschedule the meeting dedicated to rafah. we are now working with them to find a convenient date that is obviously going to work for both sides. his office has agreed to reschedule that meeting that would be rededicated to rafah. >> on that note we had received statements from the presidents office saying that in yaro -- netanyahu did not approve the delegation. >> i would say we are working to set a date. the prime minister's office agreed to reschedule this meeting. he saw that the israel defense minister is here for two days, extended a day, and added another day to meet with jake sullivan and bill burns. that is a conversation we are having.

an important meeting on raw file. when we have a date we will share that with you. host: that was from wednesday at the white house. what is your top story of the week, david, in new york, republican? caller: no, there are so many stories going on right now. what i find frightening is this potential and have semitism -- potential antisemitism. what took place in front of radio city music hall and is taking place all over the country scares me and makes me see the beginning of 1933 in germany. but i'm going to be more based than that. i live in new york city, and i see the city deteriorating. i see women walking down the street getting sucker punched. i see criminals out on the street getting released the same day. the woman in brooklyn was

punched, they broke her jaw, and the gentleman, whatever he was, that beat that woman, was released the same day. this is coming from the whole social justice issue. we need talk about al sharpton, he has a rabble-rouser for years, in cahoots with ben crump, to bring this to small towns around the country, when a police officer acts unprofessionally, and maximizing the return on that. my biggest concern is that the city is becoming more unsafe because ideology and reality are clashing. criminals are criminals. they can make crimes, no matter what they look like, no matter where they are from. somehow we have found now that somehow criminals are nice people and they should be given a second, third, fourth, fifth,

and in the case of the gentleman who shot the police officer, 21 chances. something has got to be done to somehow stir city councils, progressive d.a.'s, liberal judges to stop and think about what is going on. people are getting killed. people are getting hurt. i go through penn station everyday. teaming with homeless people who are ticking time bombs who could potentially hurt somebody themselves, but somehow the aclu finds they have a right to -- to take abode in public places, no matter what they look like, what they smell like. people are being heard every because of ideology. host: we are going to be talking about criminal justice reform in the 8:00 hour, so make sure you stick around for that. also in new york in staten island is kenny. good morning. caller: good morning.

i'm channel surfing and they changed the channel. i'm glad i ran across you. this is a great geopolitical platform for people to open to different perspectives, ok? i'm going to run down the gauntlet. the baltimore bridge collapsed. the state police should get a lot of credit, and they haven't. let's not forget the state police that stopped the traffic, ok? number two, that worker on the bridge, and i work on construction jobs, that work crew should've had a line. when that bridge was declared closed they should have called those guys off immediately. that didn't happen. that is going to be a lawsuit, i'm sure. going down the line, scotus. it is funny that the supreme court wants to -- republicans in

general, power to the states, not centralized federal power. but funny thing how they flip-flop. because here it is, when it comes to abortion, let the states decide, but when it comes to abortion pill, they will decide. we don't want the government telling us to wear masks, but it is ok, the government can tell us to have a baby. that is done. trump's bond being lowered. host: we can't go through the whole list. what do you think is the most important news item that happened this week? caller: i would say the u.s.-israeli relations, number one. host: ok. caller: i believe that israel should have a state, the jews should have a safe state to be in without war. i also believe the people that were displaced, the palestinians, as well as should have a safe homeland.

just like israelis. because israelis encompass jews and arabs, all right? you have to look at the picture, and reality and fairness. a lot of tensions, especially from netanyahu, which i consider a war criminal, that whenever this piece with rabin, just like america, the right wing over here, when there is peace involved the right wing came up and they will desecrate the dome of the rock and cause tension. of course there is going to be demonstrations and riots. they throw rocks, they throw bombs. host: all right, kenny. i'm glad you found another topic that happened yesterday is, this is on foxbusiness. sam bankman-fried gets 25 years. where will he serve his sentence?

sam bankman-fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison for his role in defrauding customers of ftx. in case you missed that news. darrell is a democrat in columbus, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing, mimi? host: doing good. caller: my thing is with donald trump, wants to claim law and order nowadays. he attended a wake for an officer in new york, which is sad. at the same time, he going to go and do that, but three years ago, one 40 police officers in washington, d.c. get the hell beat out of him. he's going to call the people that beat them hostages. j6 hostages, and they are going to do a song i'm all about.

that shows you how they have politicized when people die. lakin down here in georgia, beautiful lady got killed and it was very sad. but the republicans, what they always do, they take something like that and they politicized the hell out of it. it is just crazy to me. that's all i've got this morning, mimi. you have a great day. host: chris in philadelphia, pennsylvania. morning. caller: good morning, mimi. how are you doing today? host: i'm doing great. caller: my top news was the lady spoke at the united nations and really the american response to it. it would be amusing if it was not so tragic to see john kirby

and matt miller try to kind of sneak their way out of the u.s.'s on position here where they are trying to not vote against these resolutions that are immensely popular, both in the u.s. and abroad, but they are trying not to remove any tangible support from israel, despite the confirmation that they are undeniably committing a genocide. and it is just kind of crazy to see all of the court reporters at odds with mr. miller and john kirby, asking tough questions. i want everybody to notice how they always sort of pivot two, when people are asking about palestinian rights they will always say, well, we are not going to leave israel defenseless. we can't cut israel off from ironed him defenses.

i just want people to know that nobody -- especially on the left i have seen -- is asking for israel to go defenseless and just be open and vulnerable to attack. all we are asking is that they cut off their offensive weapons that are enabling them to kill hundreds of children daily. that is all we are asking. i personally don't think it is that much to ask. but evidently it is too much to ask of the united states government. thank you much for listening. host: chris, let's take a look at what john kirby said about that. it was a nonbinding vote the u.s. sustained in the u.n., asking for a cease-fire in gaza until the end of ramadan. >> today we abstained on a un security council resolution calling for a cease-fire in gaza

until the end of ramadan, and the release of all the hostages. our boat does not -- i repeat -- is not represent a shift in our policy. we have been very clear, we have been very consistent in our support for a cease-fire as part of a hostage deal. that is how the hostage deal is structured in the resolution acknowledges the ongoing talks. we want it to get to a place where we could support this resolution, but because the final text does not have key language we think is essential, such as condemning hamas, we cannot support it. because it does fairly reflect our view that a cease-fire and the release of hostages come together, we abstained. the defense minister is here today, meeting with mr. sullivan. as we speak people have other meetings while he is in town today and tomorrow. certainly with the secretary of defense tomorrow, and we

certainly look forward to having those discussions with him. and making it clear that the united states continues to stand with israel as they fight hamas, and will continue to fight to get those hostages back with their families where they belong. host: that was the white house on monday. john in ventura, california. what is your top story this week? caller: good morning, mimi. good morning, everyone. i'm trying to make something out of the israeli-palestinian, trying to figure it out. there is one thing i come up with kids that it is really serious because the october 7 raid was not really a military raid. it was just to poke the hornets nest, to really just jab israel and get them angry so they woul fire back at the palestinians

and so they went and they are doing all of this destruction and bombs. i'm beginning to think this is kind of a diversion. because the real issue is iran getting the nuclear bomb. this is kind of a false light that takes everybody's mind off iran getting the bomb. according to sources, they think they're going to have a bomb within a month. when iran gets the bomb, they are going to shoot it at israel. that is the first thing they're going to do. so what is israel to do? will israel launch a preemptive strike against iran? that is where i am starting to get worried, because right now we are wasting all of this time and the reality is iran is making a bomb and they are going to shoot it at israel. host: what do you think is the best way to keep iran from

getting a nuclear bomb? caller: well, if you study history and you study julius caesar, and he conquered gaul, they had this fortress that was fortified. it took them two years, but he surrounded it and he starved them out and made them give up their leaders. that is what the palestinians have to do. they have to give up hamas. we cannot kill hamas. the palestinians have to turn on hamas. the only way to do that is through a prolonged siege. and not the destruction, but a prolonged siege. study julius caesar. he was one of the greatest leaders of all time, and that battle is fascinating to study, because he built a wall around the city. if israel had built some kind of

a defensive wall around gaza and not let anything in or anything out except hostages and hamas leaders, then the palestinians would have to turn on hamas. but the reality is, it is a false flag. riots and everything else. the reality is, iran is getting the bomb and they are going to shoot it off at israel. host: we heard that point. russ is a democrat in new york. good morning. caller: i would like to thank ralph nader for ringing us and the c-span audience together. you are a great interviewer. these last callers, this is the end of the zionist project. if that person wants to worry about a nuclear weapon he should worry about the hundreds of nuclear weapons israel has, and if israel sees the end of the zionist project they will start lashing out. they will blow themselves up. that is the nature of a

messianic project. a lot of us don't feel that a specific religious group, their holy book is not a land document, it is not permission for squatters to go and sees the lands of other people. but of course in the united states that is what we did when we emplaced -- displaced the indigenous people. but i'm sorry, i don't want to go on. the important story for me is the story about the tragic shooting of the police officer in new york. i'm speculating, but they show a gun that was recovered was not the weapon used. we don't know how this officer was shot, what weapon. we are told they were robbing a store two blocks away from a police station. this doesn't add up. this officer's sacrifice deserves the truth. i hope it wasn't a friendly fire shooting, and i think the people politicizing it are really outrageous. this guy who they have arrested spent many years in prison.

bail reform came because people were being locked up because they were black and being released because they were white. specifically in new york. we used to have mandatory one-year sentences for gun possession and the used to lock up black people all the time for that. until they started having white tourists ringing guns to times square and the airport and they let them go. you cannot have racist justice. thank you, mimi. host: make sure you stick around for the 8:00 hour, because i will be talking to someone about their reform specifically. -- bail reform specifically. host: mike, good morning. caller: when it comes to the shooting of the police officer, of course there is a crime wave, essentially all across the country. i lived on the border for years and i can tell you this is the beginning of a problem that is going to be growing for 20 years.

there is three constituencies of the democratic party that are responsible for this. one is the open borders constituency. when is the community activist constituency. obama was a failed community activist from chicago. look at chicago. the other is the restorative justice constituency, where you restored the criminals back into the communities they have been praying on for years. and also restore children that are violent. this is a program of obama that caused at least two of these school shootings. where they kept putting these violent children with mental health issues and kept placing them back restoring them to the classroom. these are the three constituencies that are mainly responsible for this crime wave. people need to wake up. it is the point of idiocy at

this point. host: montclair, virginia, good money. caller: i want to tell white democrats to shut up thinking you can talk for black people. you need to talk for white people. my top story are white men -- white women getting hit in the face because the white kids getting jumped on in school because they are white. you will always, you white liberals always want to speak up for somebody else. that is the reason why the washington redskins are not the redskins anymore, because of white people thinking they can speak up for everybody. shut up. host: maria, carmel, new york. go ahead. caller: yes, my top story would be the fact that i am an older woman, 74 years old. i live in upstate new york, and i used to love to go down to the city, i used to love to go with my friends.

i used to go to shows. what concerns me is the fact i am petrified -- and so are my friends -- to come down to the city. i am a white woman and i don't understand, and i really don't think this is true, but i have heard a man you had on before saying that now they don't believe what they hear on the news, that these news stories are not true, that may be the police officer was not shot, it was maybe friendly fire. we have such contradiction in the news up here, but my fear is that, why are these criminals -- is it true that these criminals are being laid out after they have been arrested and are 15 times? my top story is the fact that, why this fear? our mayor gets on and says these are random acts. that there is not enough police,

that the police are creating -- are quitting. how can they be random acts? there are so many of them, and do we believe the news? are they really happening? i don't understand and i want to know what we can do to take this fear away of us going to the city and looking behind our backs all the time to see, is somebody going to punch us? can we enjoy the city we used to love years ago, to go down and have dinner, to go to a show? this is a beautiful city, new york, and i haven't been there in, like, five years. because i'm afraid. that is my only concern at this point right now, because it affects me personally. i have to say, a lot of other things i cannot affect, but this is what affects me, i grandkids, my children. and that is the only thing i have to say. host: all right, maria. let's go to the line for democrats. vinson in missouri.

vinson, are you there? caller: yes, ma'am. i'm here. i was thinking of the guy earlier when he was talking about that barge, and i think that that was done on purpose. i follow the stock market. and i noticed all of the major companies selling they stocks. when i saw that barge hit that bridge i was thinking, what is in those container ships? are they holding a lot of merchandise these guys are going to sell off? like in the stock market crash in 2008, or exxon, where there was doing the pump and downs and then selling all stocks and telling everybody's 401(k)'s and retirement plans, and businesses that depended on those companies. just like when they built that loyal barge in iran -- not iran, but india. why would you do that if they

are not going to be able to maintain that facility? now that is sitting over in the air, vacant, not eating used and rusted over. when i see this barge with all of this stuff my first thought -- the first topic comes to mind is, what is inside those container ships? i know all kind of stuff goes through those ships, but i know they hold a lot of merchandise. i just feel like they are in the middle of a pump and dump ponzi scheme where they are going to cash out all of their stocks and leave the little guy to be poor. it starts watching these billionaires do whatever they want. they are more powerful will be government with the kind of money they've got, and resources. i feel like they did have the resources to put something like this together. just like the conspiracy behind the towers. host: all right, benson. this is in the washington post, about the economic impact. you can see here a picture of

the wreckage site. it says, harbor remains blocked. poor workers feel -- fear impact on their lives. layoffs may be imminent as nearly 8000 have jobs tied to the docks. maryland has received an initial payment of $60 million for early cleanup of the collapse from the federal government. joseph in raymond, mississippi, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi. my biggest concern from this week was the border crisis. the senate passed a bill concerning the crisis, from president trump, for the house not to pass it, and they agreed to it. now they are blaming president biden for not having concerns for the border crisis.

they say it is a border crisis, but the use it as a political tool. thank you. host: just to clarify, the senate did not take it up at all, but it was a bipartisan deal that was negotiated. and josh in great falls, virginia. republican. caller: good morning, mimi, and thanks for this conversation. i think the story of the week that has not been covered in detail, other than people like you and amy goodman, is that we are sending -- rewarding israel with billions of dollars this week, despite the fact that the majority of the american population is opposed to the genocide. rather than docking payment, we are rewarding them. our infrastructure is falling apart while children are being murdered in a genocide. it is a departure from international law, as we have

seen at the united nations, where it is a binding resolution under international law. the administration is trying to have both sides of the story so they can appease the pro-israeli lobby and if i the american public and international law. these children are dying as we speak, right now. probably another 100 palestinians, mostly civilians, have been killed. this story needs to be told, and thank god for c-span and others who have the nerve to do that, because we are losing at all levels as americans. host: i want to show you a poll from gallup. you are talking about public opinion. it says, majority in u.s. now disapprove of israeli action in gaza. here are the numbers. this is the question asked. do you approve or disapprove of the military actions israel has

taken in gaza? here you can see the comparison between november 2023, a month after the october attacks, to, most recently, march 2024. the approval has dropped down to 36%. disapproval has gone up from 45% to 55% in march. interestingly, no opinion has also gone up to 9%. jean in cedar rapids, iowa. independent. caller: hi. there were so many subjects that were touched on. one, i really think that all of us americans need to look at the big picture of what is going on. our border is really bad, but with the children, it seems apparent to me that before the border happened there was 86% of

the kids that were rescued from a sex trafficking king, from some kind of interaction with foster care. and now we have all of these immigrant children that are missing, don't even want to touch base or talk about it, our government. i started looking into a couple of things, and the nationality of a lot of people in our government, people should really look at. the fact that we are pushing so hard for this genocide in palestine. it is ridiculous. it goes against all of our morals and standards. if we can take care of our own border, what are we doing out here -- can't take care of our own border, what are we doing out here funding this checkup we have millions of illegal immigrants that have come in here -- and i'm not saying they shouldn't be able to -- but, do it legally. for some time now they have all

been young males, all physically fit, and don't really like they are wanting to do nothing but harm. here in iowa, we were at the bus station and we watched a white 17-year-old kid get beat down. you couldn't even recognize the kid's face. from immigrant people. if we think we are not going to be in trouble, you have another thing coming. seriously, look up nationality of most of the government officials. they are not american. host: glenn in valley center, kansas. morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. two things. one is the audacity of governor hochul and letitia james, asking to speak at this man's funeral today. it is a travesty. the second thing is, in israel, you know, this is god's chosen people.

and he gave them this land thousands of years ago, and why the arabs seem to think they can wipe it out is beyond belief. everybody is hollering about the children getting killed over there, but what about all of the babies that are being killed in this country through abortion? we don't hear any backlash on that. host: about the war in gaza, here is a politico article that says the dod is in early talks to find a peacekeeping force in gaza. u.s. officials has been that have been clear the plan would not include american boots on the ground. you can read that at politico if you are interested. beverly is calling from madison, alabama. independent. caller: i want to talk a little bit about the illegal immigrants

coming in. i am a nurse myself. some of the diseases we are seeing in this country probably is going to lead to another pandemic. the measles, tuberculosis -- especially tuberculosis. polio. things we have eradicated in this country years and years ago is prevalent again because of people coming in that is probably not vaccinated, not screen for it at the border -- screen for it at the border, and then let loose in society. and they don't follow up with health care. host: how are those vaccination rates here among permanent residents and citizens? you mentioned measles, and aimed -- and i understand there has been hesitancy from parents, on their kids getting measles vaccines. caller: there is some hesitancy,

but for the majority of people, i don't know the records or anything like that, national to statistics -- national statistics. measles, to me growing up they were more prevalent in the 1960's, the 1970's. but with vaccinations they had gone down from being in nursing school we learned that. if people coming in, there is no -- i mean, even if they are not coming in sick from leaving their countries, doing these long road trips that they make through the jungles, and you know they are bringing in fears. the children don't get health care. this is a spreading, and that is what is causing, probably, a lot of these diseases. it is worrisome to me because something has to be done at the border. that is only one thing about the

border, you know, for safety reasons. there needs to be some checks and balances but people getting vaccinated at the border when they come in. or just let loose in society and they probably don't have money. and all of the funds are being taken up in schools. i've been in schools sometimes, and all of the funding, or i am live they are building new schools for the people coming in. not immigrants so much, but they don't have the money to do anything and help public health because all of these immigrants they are putting up in hotels, they are moving them around from place to place in this country. and it takes money from the government that could be used for our own children. i have a hard time with that. i really do. i mean, we should allow legal citizenship for people that come in, but this is way out of hand.

host: got it, beverly. that is going to be our last call for this segment. we will have more time later for open forum. coming up next on "washington journal," lisel petis at the r street institute joins us to discuss the state of pretrial justice and bail reform across the u.s. and later, ipsos public affairs president cliff young discusses attitudes toward candidates and top issues. ♪ >> american history tv, exploring the history and events that tell the american story. elizabeth aaron talks about confederate general james long street and reconstruction after the civil war and became an outcast in the south. congress investigates looks at

historic congressional investigations that led to changes in policy and law. this weekend the special 1912 senate committee investigation into the sinking of the titanic. 82 witnesses testified about ice warnings were ignored, the inadequate lifeboats, and the treatment of different classes of passengers. on the presidency, presidential descendants gathered in key west, florida to reflect on how their ancestors asserted political influence. here from descendants of william mckinley, william howard taft, harry truman, dwight eisenhower and jimmy carter. explore the american story. watch american history tv every weekend and find the full schedule or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> c-span has been delivering

unfiltered congressional coverage for 45 years. here's a highlight from the key moment. >> the space program has been a marvelous program for america to expand its knowledge, its horizons. it will continue to be so in the future. as long as man has the thirst for knowledge we will continue to press outward. in the process there is risk. that risk is taken by each one of us every day and that risk is understood by all the members of the crew that climb into a loaded spaceship. >> c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are joined to talk about the bail system and reforms to the

bail system with lisel petis, resident senior fellow of criminal justice at the r street institute. welcome to the program. guest: thanks for having me. host: tell us about the r street institute and how you are funded and if you have a political plant. guest: r street institute is a nonpartisan, nonprofit think tank. we focus on free markets and limited effective government. we are working with key stakeholders in the criminal justice system. we are funded by a variety of philanthropic foundations, organizations and individuals that support the work we do. host: explain to us how the pretrial system works in the purpose of bail. guest: it's hard to say how it works because it works differently across the country. every state has a different pretrial system and different pretrial laws.

ugh -- if someone commits an offense, they'll comes in if the person is arrested. they essentially come into the system. a bail amount may be set. in some states there will be a determination if the person gets bail at all or if they will be held in custody. if the going to be released they are conditions. it's often a cash bail or conditions such as house arrest, supervision, drug testing. once the person is out then they have to abide by the rules. they have to show up for court. they can't commit offenses. they have to live by the conditions imposed. if they have been successful. if not they can get rearrested and put back into jail. it works differently across the states. host: how was the decision made

to set bond? is there certain criteria a judge goes through? how does that work? guest: a judge will generally be focused on two main areas, public safety and whether or not some people appear back in court. i should say not every state evaluates both of those. new york does not actually consider somebody's danger. only appearing back in court. those of the two main considerations. after that generally the state laws are going to give a laundry list of factors to be considered. it could be the level of offense, prior criminal history. it could be cash. they will evaluate those and looking at how those play into other -- whether or not some it is a flight or safety risk. host: what are the issues you think need reforming in the bail bond system?

guest: the biggest issue is the cash bail system. it's at both ends of the spectrum. at one end you have individuals accused of lower level offenses. maybe driving under restraint, simple theft, things of that nature that are low risk and likely to show up for court. they are law-abiding but they can't afford low-levels of bail amounts. you look at a place like michigan who had a report saying that 38% of their pretrial detainees are being held on a bail amount of less than $2500. when working with a bail bondsman usually pay 10% of that. people are being held on $250 at the end of the day. that's the one issue. are we best using resources by having people staying in jail for these low-level offenses that are low risk? on the other end you have

individuals who may have committed very serious crimes. they may be high risk for fleeing or a danger to the community. yet if they have the financial means, if you set a high cash bail amount they can still pay their way out. that is more being determined on wealth versus a risk to society. i would say that is the number one issue with the cash bail system. proponents of bail reform will point to more long-term unintended consequences. often times we think about pretrial detention in that moment after the arrest and somebody's being detained. research has shown when individuals are arrested even for one day or two that can start to create this succession. someone might lose a job. they might lose housing. they could have the custody of their children challenged. when those things start

happening it creates a higher likelihood of reoffending in the future. it can compromise public safety on the backend. we are not talking about violent felonies. that's a concern for a lot of proponents of bail reform. host: we will take your calls for the next 35 minutes with our guest lisel petis on the bail system. we are dividing the lines by region. in the eastern or central time zones, call us at (202) 748-8000 . not nor pacific, (202) 748-8001 -- mountain or pacific, (202) 748-8001. we have a line if you have experience with the bail system. call us on (202) 748-8002. you can also use our line for texting and our social media lines. can you give us a bit of an idea of the history of the bail system? where did it come from? for what purpose? around when did it start? guest: the bail system has been

around for centuries. we are talking about before america. back when we are looking in europe. it was a way to work within the judicial system to make sure people were being held accountable. people were showing up to court and facing the charges against them. public safety became a concern as well. that was not an original piece of the system but it's become very prominent now. the idea is when we came to america under our constitution we had certain rights. one is the presumption of innocence. we don't just want to lock up everybody accused of a crime. we want a lot of people who are maybe not showing up to face those charges or potentially locking of people who may be a safety risk for the community. the vast majority people actually show up for court enter law-abiding. those individuals have a

presumption of innocence. we don't know if they are guilty of the crime they are accused of. it is not a great use of taxpayer money to be holding them in jail if they're coming into court anyway and they're going to be staying law-abiding. as we progressed forward we have started to see cash bail being used. fairly early on cash came into play about whether or not they could eventually pay to get out. if somebody had skin of the game they would show back up for court because they want that money back. early in the 1900s we started to see bail bonds come out. that is when they became more prominent. the veil bondsman is someone who will pay the cash bail amount for somebody to be released. in return the defendant will pay generally between 10% to 50% of the bond amount, a nonrefundable bond amount. the bail bondsman gets to keep the money and a surety for the

rest of the amount the court. host: but they have to show up though. guest: if they show up. a lot of times the court will wait to see whether or not the person shows up. often times the bail amount -- the vast majority do show for court. the amount to the bail bondsman is not refunded. host: so they keep that is profit. guest: right. host: i want to let people know your report on this is called tools for safe and smart bail system changes. people can take a look at that if they would like. critics of bail reform say it's going to increase crime, increase violent crime. is there any evidence that shows the relationship between bail reform and violent crime? guest: there evidence -- there

is no evidence that shows it causes violent crime. this concern comes up a lot so it's worth addressing where the concern comes from. we see a lot of cases in the media where 70 has gotten -- somebody else got out on relief and tragedy happened. there was one in the news this week. what's important to remember is that bail reform looks very different state to state. it's very hard to attack that because there is no one bail reform effort. what has been done in new jersey looks very different from what has been done in new york which is different from illinois. we have to look at the very specific local level at what is happening. i will give an example. in new york, bail reform had a couple of things. it's important to mention that

new york does not consider dangerousness and their bail. that is very different. most every other state does. new york does not. host: why is that? that seems odd. wouldn't it be the most important thing? guest: the original purpose of bail is to have people show up for court. that is new york's main consideration when they do bail determination. a lot of states have prioritized public safety. actually see that as the primary concern of public safety. not every state has done that. the other things new york has done, and has been amended but requiring certain people to be out on release. some bail reform is a production -- presumption of release. your f -- new york has a long

list of crimes it has mandatory release. you have to compare that to something like new jersey. new jersey had a very different approach to bail reform. their approach was not only -- essentially getting rid of cash bail for most offenses. it also greatly expanded preventative detention. preventative detention means somebody does not have a right to release. they would just remain in jail rather than be released. they had a robust pretrial services program put in place at the same time. very different efforts and laws. it is hard to compare bail reform in general and the rising crime. as of now i'm not aware of any studies that show there is a direct relation between bail reform and a rising crime. -- rise in crime. host: new york and new jersey have very different views on

pretrial the tension and release. what are the different crime rates? is that a fair comparison to see which method is better? guest: i think it is worth looking at the crime rates. i think a better method is looking at whether or not the people being released from jail are showing up for court and staying law-abiding. crime rates can be affected by so many things. we saw a huge spike in crime after the closures from covid, after the murder of george floyd. those are external kind of things that are impacting the criminal justice system. it is hard to use that is one indicator of success . i think it is something to be looked at. new jersey did in fact and has continued to see the people they have released in their system do continue to show up for court. they have had very low levels of people getting out after serious

offenses. they had a decrease in crime overall since bail reform. i think those are indicators to show whether or not there has been success. new york has had different studies come out about whether or not there has been success or not. it's very nuanced. a lot has happened in the criminal justice space in the last couple of years. host: we will take your calls for our guest lisel petis on our lines by region. eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. if you have had experience with the bail system, (202) 748-8002. before we go to the phones i want to ask about this article about illinois from cbs. illinois becomes the first day to end cash bail. the article was in september of last year. i am wondering once they have

ended cash bail what impact has that hat? guest: -- that had? guest: what illinois did his groundbreaking. we have had a lot of other states and municipalities really pull back on cash bail. illinois is the first place that has full long eliminated cash bail. at the same time they did that they did expand the list, like new jersey did, offenses that can be preventative lee detained. in the state of illinois the options are you will be detained or released. if released, the conditions cannot be monetary. you are getting out. it's a matter of what conditions are in there as well. we are about six months out from the implementation of the pretrial fairness act which illuminates bail -- eliminates cash bail. people are seeing how impactful

it has been. there are studies that it has reduced the jail population, which was one of the goals or anticipated outcomes of this. we are waiting to see the full data on whether or not primaries have changed or if the people being released are showing up for court and staying law-abiding. the one thing we know is a lot of critics of pretrial fairness were concerned about the purge happening after it wasn't limited, meaning people would go out commit all the crimes and think there is no consequences. that definitely did not happen. it seems most of the key stakeholders and professionals in the system may want some tweaks with what is going on but many think it is going ok. there is not a severe outcome from it. host: robert is a first from silver spring, maryland. good morning. caller: it seems like a lot of

our large cities are actually experiencing a purge. the chicago man who was released this weekend and murdered a child within 24 hours. the new york punching rampage where the people are not even being arrested. in d.c. this week a dispensary worker was murdered after complying and giving up the products. we had 12 people who killed a homeless man. people walking around on the street with semi all medic rifles -- semi automatic rifles. none of these people arrested. the complete acceptance of crime, it has to stop. we have to go back to law and order. it's really insulting to the people that are following the

laws. basically that's my comment and that is why i will be supporting trump in the fall. host: lisel. guest: the first thing we need to remember is that have been absolutely tragic cases out there. i could not hear all the examples but somewhere released on parole which means they were convicted of a crime and released from a prison sentence. the discussion will have to be for a different day. certainly tragedies and people are released on bail as well. the one thing important to remember is that people under the cash bail system often are released as well. many people do get out of jail on cash bail, whether by their own means, family member's means or a bail bondsman who is paying

the amount for them to get out. these tragedies may or may not happen under each system. it is completely fair to evaluate what the system is doing and if there is a better way to do it. that could mean, you know, changing policies but more often than not it is changing practices and how the policies are used in the courtroom. using the tools that are already available. host: another robert, this time from gulfport, mississippi. caller: yes ma'am. i'm going to piggyback on the last element. i think the laws have been i guess you could say dumbed down so much there is no penalty no for the crimes. they go in, get a little bail or no bail and they are back on the streets. the judges in certain states, you can steal $1000 and is no big deal.

something has got to be done. you do the crime i think they need to do the time. especially -- as the other genoa saying -- gentleman was saying, the people are either out on bail or they have x number of violent crimes in the past and they are out of jail. some have over 20 -- over the last 14 years have been jail 20 times. why is that person on the street committing crimes? that is the angle i'm trying to ask about. guest: we have to be really careful in talking about punishment. and we talk about pretrial detention these individuals have not been convicted of a crime. they have been accused. under our constitution and the

laws of the united states they are presumed innocent. they have a right to due process, our right to have a jury convicted him of the crime before facing punishment. we have to be careful. the pretrial the tension determination or fail determination --bail determination -- most states consider public safety but that is different than somebody that deserves to be punished at this point in time. judges have to really say is this person going to get out and be dangerous to society? are they not going to show up for court? those of the things they are considering. the caller mentioned cases where people have 20 prior arrests. i understand the concern. i am not in the courtrooms making those decisions. it is unclear what the decision was to be released.

i would just say we have to remember even under a cash bail system those individuals often are paying to get out. one interesting thing out of illinois is 1180 cash bail has actually made victims safer under the new system. now instead of having the right to pay to get out they are just being detained in some cases where they are high-risk defendants. in some ways -- you have to be thoughtful -- you can create more safety. host: ed in queens, new york. caller: good morning, mimi. hello again. my tv is muted again. my experience has been that the system in new york was run through too fast. it started with keeping some and custody for more than two years in solitary confinement,

segregation, on suspicion of stealing a school back. when he was released a few was afterwards he killed himself. that is what started the bail system. i'm a little familiar with it because i was tasked with writing the training program forward. there really was not enough time to get it done. i had to teach officers very simple things such as 30 days past september, april, june, and november so they could calculate when to release people into society. this is what started the bail program in new york city's apartment of corrections. as i said, it was way too short a time to initiate a comprehensive training program mainly because a lot of people don't know the training takes a

great deal more time than they think. basically that is my experience. host: thanks for the input. any comment on that? guest: i am familiar with that case. a lotto policies, especially in the criminal justice space are the result of a tragic instance, as the one that was just told. you see that happen a lot. i don't know if it's grading were tough on crime reform. too often we are pushing through criminal justice policies without doing all the due diligence. some of the better policies that come about, what we see is a collaboration with all stakeholders. you want to make sure that prosecutors are at the table talking about these changes. you want police talking about the changes.

you want people who have been in the system to be talking about these changes. it does not mean everybody has to agree but it needs to be considered so you are figuring out the whole -- you are bringing out the training pieces. illinois has had to make amendments to the bail reform and are continuing to have conversations of changes needing to make a stronger -- needed to make it stronger. the more you can do before the policy takes place to avoid those unintended consequences is great. host: pensacola, florida is next. pat, hello. caller: i have a comment to make for ms. petis. the way you solve the bail problem if you think it is wrong for certain people who can't afford it is if they don't do the crime they will not have to -- i would like to -- host: we heard you.

if they didn't do the crime they would have to afford bail in the first place. caller: on crime statistics, if these liberal d.a.'s downgrade from felonies to misdemeanors, that would affect the reporting on crime statistics. is that correct? guest: i'm not familiar with the report. we have another colleague on our team that can probably answer that better so i believe that one. if they don't commit the crime, they got worry about this. i have to keep reiterating these are individuals who are presumed to be innocent at that point in time. i am passionate also about crime prevention. we do work in making sure that crimes don't happen in the first place and finding the best practices to ensure the behavior stops. we are talking about people who are presumed innocent. they have not been accused of a crime.

it's a very different determination. we are talking about pretrial versus postconviction after someone's been accused and convicted. host: the state of georgia has last month -- the state senate approved a bill that if it passed it would expand the list of offenses that require cash bail, kind of going in the opposite direction of illinois. what are yourhoughts on that and tell us what is happening and the implications of that? guest: it's interesting. illinois has decided to completely eliminate cash bail and then you have georgia who was expanding their list of offenses that are now being required to have cash bail. i emphasize required because what that means is judges and prosecutors no longer have discretion in those offenses. we are talking a long list of offenses that are more than just violent crimes. possession of marijuana is in there. a second reckless driving charge is in there.

people should be held accountable but not generally seen for cash bail consideration in many places. right now it has passed the legislature and is on the governor's desk. people who are against the bill are concerned about the unintended consequences of when we pass policies and don't think through how it will impact the system. the state of georgia is already seeing backlogged courts. they are seeing jails that are overwhelmed, having way too many people. it could add to the problem, making it even worse. taking the discretion away from your judges and prosecutors who really have the authorities and knowledge to know what to do with these cases is concerning. if anything it is going back to that.

they were not addressing the risk, saying to people are high-risk is a concern and what we can do about it. they came down to wealth. what is the cash amount we can attach to these offenses. host: keith is calling from denver, colorado. caller: hi. good morning. i am so impressed by your presentation of facts this morning. thank you for bringing some much needed context and perspective to this discussion. understanding that our street is center-right, i think you do get great deal to counter a lot of the what i would describe as false narratives that exist around this issue. to be quite honest it runs on a loop.

-- on a loop on fox news 20 47. we look at the incident with diller in new york, the officer, which was purely political. it was an awful tragedy what happened to the officer. i think it's important to keep informing people that even though this may be their steady diet of news consumption -- i call it news loosely on fox news. i watched fox news this morning. it is on a loop. they are in new york talking about diller. they have been asked not to talk about lakeland riley by his family. all the crime is down significantly from 2020.

all the statistics. host: kenny comment? -- any comment? guest: our streets really tried to take politics out of what we do --r street institute. we tried to say what makes the most common sense here. and apply that. that story is absolutely tragic. i look at the history of those defendants and i have my own questions. the purpose of bail is to be focused on how we keep our communities safe, how we best use our taxpayer dollars and make sure the system is being fairly applied to everybody. host: truth sayers send you this on x. "i would think linking bail to public safety should be the most important concern. i'm dumbfounded that new york does not see it that way."

is there pressure on new york to change that? is there talk of reforming that? guest: a couple of years ago there was a lot of pressure and conversations in the state of new york on that. i will not speak for the state. if the state of new york -- the state of new york is not the only state that puts emphasis on appearing in court. i put out a paper on comparing all 50 states' bail laws. if people want to look state to state and what they are using to determine bail they can go to r street's website access that. there are states you have not just addressing public safety but that this is a primary purpose for bail, public safety. we are seeing both sides. i cannot speak for new york but i believe it is an ongoing discussion. host: tom, good morning. caller: good morning.

right quick. i have to get ready to go to work. we have got to do something to get the private citizen back out there on top. we can't spend more time taking care of the criminals that we do the victims. when you do you undermine the entire society. i hate to be so blunt about this but guys like me are not being paid to solve that problem. unfortunately the guys at the top are being paid to solve that and they're not doing a good job. i appreciate your time. thank you. host: bruce in canton, massachusetts. caller: good morning. this is a very timely discussion. my own experience is limited

with the bail system. at least in massachusetts i think it is reasonably corrupt and that about 12 years ago my pno coach -- i'm a physician but i play in piano competitions. my coach was arrested and could i bail him out. he had a fight with his boyfriend. the apartment building has then walls and the neighbor called the police and he got arrested. he says it is $1800. i pulled together $1800, go to the atm to get the cash, go down to the jail. i discover i have a choice. i can pay a bill bondsman $180 and get him out now or i can wait until 10:00 a.m. monday morning -- this is saturday night -- and put the $1800 up at

the court clerk. host: what did you do? caller: i paid the $180. the case was actually dismissed around for much later but he told me that part of his conditions of release were drug testing even though there were no drugs involved. to cost him another $1000 for mandatory drug testing. there were a lot of people there to bail out their loved ones, family, friends. it was a system the funnel -- there was no chance he was not going to trial. host: let's get a response from lisel. guest: bail is done differently in every city.

the procedures will change and be different state to state. it is concerning to hear that you can pay one amount and get released amelia not the other. -- immediately and out the other. one change is how we make sure people who are going to be released can be released immediately so the are not collateral consequences of not losing a house over job. this witness of getting somebody -- the decision will be made quicker. it is a push as well. host: former caller talked about the crime rate and how much it is reported on media outlets. this is nbc news. the crime rate is still dropping. fbi data shows -- one expert says people confuse disorder with crime. i wonder what you make of that and how that perception of

crime, even though it is going down, is impacting the bail reform movement. guest: i think it's a valid point. georgia is a great example. the state of georgia has an increasing crime. atlanta is seeing a bigger -- we know the actual stat on crime rates does not immediately impact policy the way we think it would. yes, pretty much across the nation crime rates are going down. however, polls are showing most americans think crime is worsening. the perception and reality are not linking up right now which is driving some policies. certainly, disorder or chaos the writer was speaking about is out there. what i mean by that is we are seeing a very high level of mental health crisis in the public. overdoses and drug use,

especially fentanyl has been a crisis across the nation. homelessness encampments. when people see these other pieces of haverhill health crisis, homelessness -- behavioral health crisis and homelessness they often connected with crime. they are different. but people see that and they think crime. it is not quite as surprising in perception when the stats themselves are going down in both places. -- most places. host: bill in venice, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. some points. the term crime is used to great deal. what you touched on is real important. the way to keep people away from prison is not to arrest them if there is no crime. my take on that is no victim, no crime.

i don't know what the percentage is but i think it's high of people wanting -- winding up in jail when there is no victim. i wonder if you can address that and the importance of that of not getting them in the system to begin with. host: can you explain what you mean by no victim, no crime? give me an example. caller: a true crime is when somebody -- if there is theft involved or the person is hurt. we used to have what was called the vice squad. back in the because a crime was prostitution, gambling or narcotics. there is no victim there. if we got rid of those that maybe help people -- you also mentioned the homeless and things like that. there is no crime there. they need some help. host: go ahead, lisel.

guest: i understand the concerns. too often jails turn into defective mental health facilities, homeless shelters, detox centers. it's unfair to the deputies. i understand where the concern comes from. i would say we have to be careful making that much of a difference in how we use the language. the first thing that comes to me is a driving under intoxication. i would say that is probably a victimless crime. they have not hit anybody but we generally want them prosecuted because it can become a tragedy. it is tough saying one should or should not be arrested. that is why states like new jersey have opened up the tension to most crimes -- detention to most crimes of making sure it's focused on whether some but he danger or a flight risk versus the effect

itself. host: dave is next in all wrightsville, pennsylvania. caller: hi. my question is what makes you think you are perception of reality which does not include crime is the only perspective that is correct? most of us see crime to be out of control. everything in this country is out of control. every single state is allowing these criminals out. what just happened in new york. did the guy get out? when you going to understand your perception could be the wrong perception and that reality is with the other half thinks is to be the truth is actually the truth and you are

wrong? host: what you think, lisel? guest: we will disagree on the thought that i don't think crime is ok. r street focuses on how to reduce crime and prevent crime. any amount of crime is unacceptable and we should be working to really resolve it. one interesting thing to point out is the poll i was referencing where people say crime is worsening even though we see data going to the way is that when individuals were asked about their local area versus the nation most people think crime in the nation is very seriously bad. it's gotten to a bad point. luckily they don't think so -- locally they don't think so. that make me think most people are basing their perception on the news and media

and know what they are actually experiencing locally. people are experiencing crime. i come from a background in representing victims. i am fiercely fighting against more crime but we are talking about people accused. they have not been convicted. whether or not they should be detained or released and the consequences and the trade-offs are, there is no perfect solution. there is no right or wrong answer. we need to be evaluating the tools available and looking for the best options. host: one more call. stephen portland, oregon. -- steve in portland, oregon. caller: your crime statistics are not correct. we have these large liberal cities not even reporting crimes to the fbi. the statistics are low. also, you don't take into account they let people walk out

of the stores with merchandise that are never even arrested. there are no statistics on that. i see that happen. they walk out of the store. they have people at the door. you just let them walk out with rex of goods -- racks of goods? we are told not to stop them. i feel like a full. my wife is paying over $400 for merchandise. the statistics are not correct. host: lisel, i know you addressed reporting. anything you would like to add? guest: there are some fair comments. we had 83% of law enforcement agencies differ from the fbi this year. last year it was less than 50%. i think is a fair thing to point out. however, crime did go down. if we are not arresting people that is also going to alter

data. that i cannot speak for on this call. we are talking about bail but clearance rate for crimes being committed, making sure police are out there and are properly funded to make arrests is also an important discussion to be having. host: president senior fellow for camilla justice and civil liberties at the r street institute, lisel petis, thank you for joining us today. guest: thanks for having me. host: later we will talk to cliff young to discuss public attitudes towards campaign 2024, the candidates and top issues. first, we go back to our question from this morning. what is your top news story of the week? we will take your questions. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. s independents, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪

>> dr. blackstock and their mother are graduates of harvard medical school, macon the first black ther-daughter graduates of the program. sunday on q&a, dr. blackstock shares her book "legacy," which discusses racism facing doctors today. >> myself as a black woman with a harvard degree from undergrad and medical school i'm five times more likely to die of pregnancy related complications that my white counterparts. why would that happen? right? why is that happening in 2024? because the health care system, the health professionals are still not adequately trained to care for a diverse patient population. patients are dying.

i feel like this is politicizing a crisis that does not need to be politicized. we have statistics and numbers that show we can be caring for our patients, especially black patients in a more competent way. that is a matter of life and death. >> dr. blackstock with her book "legacy," sunday night on q&a. you can listen on our free c-span now app. >> dr. andrew pedigree is a british story at st. andrews university in scotland. his specialty is the history of the book and media transformation. he has written a great deal about the written word with and if on libraries. his latest book is titled, "the book at war: power reading shift

conflict and conflict shaped reading." professor pedigree rights, "in all nations once war broke out writers and libraries work specter to play a role in forging victory. after the second world war the allies who had faced problems of how to sanitize or exploit the collections of the defeated." >> andrew pedigree with his latest book, "the book at war: how reading shift conflict and conflict shaped reading." book notes plus available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979 we have been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government.

taking you to where the policies are debated and decided all with the support of america's cable companies. c-span. 45 years and counting. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are asking about your top news stories of the week. if he did not get a chance to weigh in and the first hour, now's your chance to call in. a couple of things to show you first. here is newsweek with the headline, donald trump reveals plan after bond is reduced. the article says on monday, former president trump announced his intention to pay the appeal bond for his civil business fraud ruling after an appeals court ruled he could proceed with a much lower amount than the $454 million penalty against him. we will abide by the decision of the appellate division and post either a bond equivalent

securities or cash trump wrote on true social. here he is talking about that criminal case against him set the start and in new york on april 15. [video] >> a lot of things happened today. this is all about election interference. this is all biden-run things, meaning biden and his thugs. it's a shame what is happening to our country. this is election interference. they are doing things that i never been done in this country before. we have never had anything like it, not at this level. we had nothing like it i have been able to find. it does happen a lot in third world countries and banana republics. if you look at what we just left, you have a case -- they are dying to get this thing started. the judge cannot go fast enough.

he wants to get it started so badly. there is tremendous corruption. mark pomerantz, hillary clinton's lawyer. democratic national committee's lawyer. he walked in and he took over the district attorney's office. nobody has ever seen things like that. to prosecute trump. they would not do what he wanted to do and he writes a book long before decisions were made. he writes a book about it. the book is published. everybody is reading his book. the judge says there is nothing wrong with that. bragg had a fit over that. he said the trial is now dead. we cannot do the trial. that was one of the problems in the judge should have allowed that to happen. you had other instances like colangelo. a radical left from the doj who was put into the state working

with letitia james and then put into the district attorney's office to run the trial against trump. that was done by biden and his thugs also, because they cannot win the election because of the borders and energy prices and inflation, because of afghanistan, the worst and most embarrassing day in the history of our country. he cannot win because of russia, russia, russia. because of ukraine being attacked by russia. he cannot win because of the october 7 attack on israel which he should've never have allowed to happen. ukraine would have never been attacked if i was president. you would not have inflation if i was president. we did not have inflation. they do election interference, which is court cases and try to tie him up and take as much of his money as possible. host: joining us on the republican line in washington is

cinda. caller: my top news story is the juveniles. i know we have been talking about the adult and the crime bills and the justice system and the bail system. we are forgetting we've got a new era of generation coming in who add to the influence of the justice system and what is happening is the juvenile crime bills that have been already substantiated, those have not seemed to have taken effect. what is happening is with these older generations indoctrinating these younger generations and committing crimes and violent crimes they know that is a slap on the wrist when it comes time to facing the consequences of we

the people and the judicial system itself. has anybody taken the opportunity to see other options that can lead to a diversion? i'm sure there are a lot of people that get angry for me saying this but if these kids are not wanting to be in school when school is in session and getting an education to better their lives can there be a consideration of may be looking at as a diversion program sending these kids into a military style set up where they are actually getting their education, their knowledge, their discipline?

it gives them a foot in the door for a career in the future but also they are ready to make the determination if they are willing to stand up and protect us, we the people. host: randall in north dakota, democrat. i was close. caller: it's an indian name. the story i was surprised from was the georgia governor kemp signed a law on wednesday to increase sanctioning removing prosecutors in the state, which of course can have an effect on what is going on with the fulton county district attorney. the thing was -- it was kemp that signed it so i should not be surprised.

then again, the same bill had been signed before. it went to the supreme court and the supreme court shot it down. this time they have turned around and exempted the supreme court, which i do note if they can legally do but the exempted the supreme court from having standings to this bill. that caught me off guard. there was another slight article about the biden and the trump donations. that biden was getting essentially double donations status for the d&c right now. -- dnc right now. somebody mentioned that you cannot really reach people if they are only watching one tv news program.

it doesn't matter which one it is. if that is your bubble, that's your bubble. the dnc [inaudible] and more on fox and oan and newsmax group to wake people up a little better that what they are able to do if not in the game at all. host: randall, upon your first one here's an article at the hill.com. kemp signs law reviving georgia sanctions panel that could disrupt prosecution of trump. you can read that at thehill.com if you want more information. catherine from queens, ohio on the lines for democrats. caller: i have been giving it a

lot of thought. i'm a 75 euros woman. i was born with kidney disease. i've had three very ugly miscarriages. here is my statement. all the young women or women and young girls can get pregnant, they never ask the man that was raping them to give them a deposit. a sperm deposit. they walked away. that young girl or woman is there to the full brunt of the hatred people have toward women in the united states today. i have been listening all morning. people will prosecute a 14-year-old black boy to the letter of the law. they will keep him in prison for as long as they possibly can.

but you will have a person like trump, who has broken every rule that he's ever come to. he will rape women, lied, steal, do whatever, but they don't want him to be prosecuted, but if you are a 14-year-old young boy, we want you to be held to the letter of the law. either we have rules in this country that cover everybody -- i thought that lady liberty that held the weights is supposed to be blindfolded. she is not supposed to know if it was a 14-year-old boy or a very entitled old white man who thinks that the rules were not made for him. and so far, they have not, because nobody has held him to the letter of the law. in this country, we either have a democracy or we don't.

everybody has to be held accountable for what they do and if we can hold children responsible, if we can hold women responsible, if we can hold people of color responsible, then please tell me, as a nation, why we can't hold an old white man responsible for the thieving that he's done, the rapes that he's committed, the insurrection he incited, for all the crimes that he's made. until lady liberty is truly blindfolded, we as people in this country cannot get justice. host: got it, kathryn. angela in maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: also a native american name like that last gentlemen.

i have three top news stories of the week. i should be able to get it out in 60 seconds. the first would be the supreme court taking up this abortion medication case, which i find appalling, but i don't blame the supreme court and i don't blame trump. i blame the 2016 voters. they told you what their lifetime appointed justices would be and what their federal judges would be. the second, this week, house republicans came out with a 2025 budget proposal, and i hear a lot of republicans say we can solve social security by taking the cap off for social security and medicare. in their budget proposal, they are not for taking the cap off. they call that the left's idea. and they are for turning

medicare into a voucher program. that is in their budget proposal. and lastly, women and children dying in gaza, a lot of that could come to an end now if egypt would unlock their gates and let the women and children in until that war is over, just like poland let the women and children of ukraine in. i don't know why egypt won't let those women and children in. they are innocent and they should be let in, egypt. that's my point. thank you. host: let's talk to joseph in key west, florida, republican. good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: yeah. caller: ok. my top story -- let me turn off the tv. i was watching that judge hearing the trump case, that federal judge, and apparently trump tweeted out something, and i saw on msnbc.

i did not see a threat in that. this judge's daughter has gone for her 15 minutes of fame. she's got millions and millions of collects on her wet -- of clicks on her webpage attacking donald trump. it's been going on for months. now, if anybody has drawn attention to herself, she's done it to herself. she's capitalized on it with her clicks. and another thing. donald trump, i don't blame the guy. they are taking swings at the guy. she should have kept her fingers off the keyboard. ok. and another thing. i watched c-span last weekend and a caller called in and

apparently you had a guest that told 12 fibs. he told a fib. your commentator said that's up to you to fact-check it. i said to myself, i tune in to c-span because i trust your guys for the truth. but now you are telling me i should fact-check it anyway. and you know -- and on msnbc i watched, i see what they are doing is bringing out the trump nonsense, collusion with the russians again. i would call for a boycott, republican boycott, of abc, nbc and cbs. just throw them out. we will sit on our couches and be counted. just turn this nonsense off until they start telling us the truth and quit lying to us.

i will take common software. thank you. host: joseph mentioned the situation with the judge and his daughter in former president trump. here's the latest on that from the washington post. after trump attacked hush money judge's daughter, d.a. seeks broader gag order. they have -- trump has made posts criticizing the daughter of the judge. you can read that in the washington post. carl is calling from north little rock, arkansas, independent. caller: hello? host: go ahead, carl. caller: this is carl. can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: ok. i wanted to call about what's in the news. the second or third caller talking about former president trump and not prosecuting him

about how he lied. well, the man has not lied. they have been in court. they have not proved anything. they have no proof. you know, democrats, i don't understand y'all. the mainstream media. they had mcdaniels, a republican, for a couple hours because they were afraid that she would say something good about the republicans or president trump. so i would like for the so-called democrats -- i don't call them democrats. i called them what they are. lct's. you can figure out what that

means just by watching with the so-called democrats do. they just lie, cheat and thieve. i cannot understand it. you only hear one side, you know, one side, you know, you talk about trump, talk about him being prejudiced. you know who mandela is? from south africa? do y'all -- i want people to remember him. nelson mandela. he got out of prison and was going to come to america to, you know, talk civil rights and so forth, but the united states government, i think it was run by democrats at that time, like now, and they would not --

president trump, who was a private citizen back then, he actually sent his private jet to south africa to pick up nelson mandela and bring him to the united states to tour and spread his word about racism and the democrats -- in south africa, they kept him imprisoned. fact-check me. host: all right. appreciate the call, carl. we got this from scott in essex, massachusetts. an underreported story, russia escalates war as they strike kharkiv with aerial bombs for the first time since 2022. also marked this week,

yesterday, grim milestone for a u.s. reporter in a russian cell. this is a wall street journal reporter. he was detained while on a reporting assignment in russia and he has been in a prison accused of spying for the american government. this makes him the first american reporter to be held on espionage charges in russia since the end of the cold war. again, 32-year-old reporter, american, being held in russia. yesterday marks his first anniversary. let's talk to melanie in guthrie, oklahoma, republican, about your top news story. melanie? caller: yes. could we get this story straight on the civil case? the e. jean carroll -- i'm so upset. it's a civil case, right? host: correct. caller: could we get it straight?

hello? host: go ahead, melanie. we are listening. caller: it's a civil case. would you tell the story of what -- that happened, what, back in the 1990's? host: ok. brian and rutledge, tennessee, democrat, good morning -- in rutledge, tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: the border crisis. host: that's your top news story? caller: yeah. because i'm a democrat and a no voter now. host: what do you mean by no voter? are you not going to vote? caller: no, not going to vote. no. host: ok. anything you would like to add on this, brian?

caller: the fbi warned about cyber attacks, terrorists coming in, and he's got executive order. mayorkas went on tv and bragged about killing 90 trump executive orders. host: all right. anw in -- anwar in washington, d.c., good morning. caller: my top story is the criminal branch of the government that is called i guess the judicial branch. and i say that because -- excuse me -- the supreme court and the cases they have decided to take and those that they apparently do not feel the need to take. excuse me. they have decided not to rule on the gop racist gerrymandering in

the state of south carolina and north carolina. they have basically determined that those gerrymandered redistricting areas have diluted the black vote. there was already stated that it was diluted but -- what i mean is that they have taken districts away from black congressmen, so basically, they have given the state of south carolina and north carolina to the republican party. and then in the same instance, they have decided to take a case to determine whether donald trump is above the law, whether or not what he did as president that she cannot be charged because he's above the law -- as president -- he cannot be charged because he's above the law.

the recent idiotic case of taking this case about the medicine or that -- determines whether or not women can have an abortion. this is funny. this is because, they say, that people who work in hospitals might get upset. one of them said they are upset because they don't see women's bellies. this is nonsense. they need to be gotten rid of. they have basically determined the next election. and it's criminal and we see it happening in front of our faces and no one is saying anything about it. the other top story is haiti and what the united states is not doing to bring an end to the problems down there. that's all i have to say. host: all right. let's talk to tim in alabama, democrat. caller: good morning. host: good morning.

caller: i have a number of stories but i will tell you about this one. it's about a woman in florida. her name is crystal mason. she was charged with illegal voting and because of the law that santos put into order, she was sentenced to five years in jail. she served about 10 months in jail and had to report every week to somebody so she would not go back to jail. but she didn't serve the five years and she was cleared earlier this week. but you have a gop official named brian prichard, who is from georgia. he's chairman of the georgia

republican party. he voted nine times illegally. and he was only sentenced to $5,000. did not serve a day in jail. he still has his job. this is how racism is in this country. if she got five years for voting when she didn't know that she was voting illegally -- her vote did not even count. this man here, he voted for dead people that was in his family. so after nine times, he should get 45 years in jail. this is how white racism in this country works. now, the other thing is with donald trump, and i will end on this. he's threatening these judges. he's threatening their families.

every judge that he goes before, they put a gag order on him. the gag order does nothing. he comes back and he threatens the judge's family, threatens the daughter, puts their name out there. this gag order does not work on him. what they should do -- and he's going to wind up -- somebody's going to get killed before the election in november with this type of rhetoric he's putting out there with this type of crazy people out there. when they put a gag order on him, they should fine him $100,000 for the first offense, $5,000 for the second offense, $25,000. host: let sarlacc call for this. next on washington journal, we will have ipsos public affairs president cliff young join us and discusses organization's recent polling on public attitudes toward the campaign, the candidates, and the top issues, but first, on tuesday,

nasa held a press briefing on the upcoming solar eclipse, including the opportunities it will provide for scientific discovery. here it is. [video clip] >> in addition to our over 20 satellites in our observatory that regulatory observe the sun, we will be using rockets, planes and balloons and on the ground observation to optimize the science return of the eclipse. as the previous speakers mentioned, the sun and its effect on the earth is one of the motivating factors of our study. although the focus will be on our sun's corona, or outer hot atmosphere as the moon blocks the bright disc of the sun, the eclipse gives us the opportunity also to observe our earth's reaction. starting with our rocket experiment is a series of three rockets launched from wallace flight facility to explore the layers of the earth's atmosphere called the ionosphere.

that layer is important as it's the one that our communication signals pass through. the services in this layer -- disturbances in this layer can cause issue with gps and communications. we will sample a layer of the atmosphere to see how it changes. that information can be sent to models for us to understand the earth's atmosphere. nasa's plane with two solar experiments will chase the eclipse, getting an additional two minutes of totality and deeper understanding of the sun and earth's atmosphere. dozens of student teams will launch balloons along the eclipse path before, during and after the eclipse to get measurements of the atmosphere. in addition, a nasa team will be using a balloon to study the whether of the eclipse. it's a way for everyone to join the nasa science exploration during the eclipse. i'm highlighting just three of

the over 40 projects. the first project is sun sketcher. utilizes a smartphone to understand the size and shape of the sun better. the second project is focused on the reaction of our atmosphere to the eclipse. it's called globe observer. this app has you record things like temperature to understand the effect of the eclipse on the atmosphere and clouds. the third is something to explore the reaction of wildlife to the eclipse. these are a few of the ways to engage in the eclipse and nasa science. it is not just a stunning visual experience and i hope you will join us in these discoveries. ♪ >> c-span has been delivering unfiltered congressional coverage for 45 years. here's a highlight from a key moment. >> the space program has been a marvelous program for america to expand its knowledge, its

horizons, and it will continue to do so in the future. as long as man has the thirst for knowledge, we will continue to press outward. and in the process, there is risk. that risk is taken by each one of us every day and that risk is understood by all the members of a crew that climb into a loaded spaceship. >> c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us now to talk about polling in campaign 2024 is cliff young, president of public affairs for ipsos. thank you for joining us. guest: great to be here. host: let's start with the issues.

what issues are you finding voters are most concerned about right now? guest: over the last two years, it's been the economy, and more specifically inflation. americans have had a hard time making ends meet but that is changing as the economy is improving. what we are finding is that the economy as an issue, a driving issue for americans, is waning, becoming weaker, and there are other issues percolating to the surface, most importantly saving democracy on the one hand and immigration on the other. host: how to those issues influence an election? guest: i'm a professional pollster and i say if i only had one question to put on a poll, i would put out the main problem question. it's very predictive of what will happen. what we know based on our data set is that the candidate strongest on the main issue wins the election 85% of the time.

that's what we are looking at at this point. right now, we have saving democracy is the number one issue. immigration is second-place. we are laser focused there. things are changing but we think we will get to a steady state in a little bit. host: earlier this month, president biden and former president trump clinched their parties' nominations. how do people feel about that match up that rematch? guest: i would say there's ambivalence. on the one hand you have partisans very much in support of their respective candidate. they are in favor of biden and very much against trump or vice versa. but you have 10% to 15% of the population of americans that are not really happy with either choice. what we are seeing is that third-party candidates like rfk are seeping into the consciousness and showing up in the polling and so there's an ambivalence now, at least with a

chunk of the population, that like neither one candidate nor the other. host: you just touched on it a little bit. in your recent polling, you talked about negative partisanship. explain what that is and what you are seeing. guest: that is the anti-boat. there's no other reason why you want to vote for biden or trump. but to vote against the other. what we find about this anti-vote is it strongest when it comes to trump. there represents about 25% of the population. the biden anti-vote about 15% of the population. but these are individuals that are voting exclusively to vote against the other and is less important the specific characteristics or flaws of the candidate they vote for. host: we are talking with cliff young about polling in campaign 2024 if you have a question. give us a call. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

and independents, (202) 748-8002 . and with the -- having this rematch, what are you seeing in terms of people who may flip to the other side? are you seeing voters who may vote for one -- voted for president biden in 20 but may vote for trump this year? host: that's very rare. that's sort of flip-flopping -- that sort of flip-flopping is rare in this highly polarized time. what we see instead are these ambivalent voters, these individuals in the middle that like neither one candidate nor the other. they don't like the options. those individuals will either throw their vote to the third candidate or not show up or vote. it's more likely they will not bow than they will vote for the other side. host: something we will always that something we always watch during elections --

something we always watch during elections are swing states. what does their matchup look like in some of those? guest: you have the northern midwest, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. they have been critical over the last couple electoral cycles. you have georgia, north carolina, arizona. those are some other states that are important. you could throw nevada in there. the issues very from place to place but ultimately, right this second, when you look at the horse race polls, trump is in the lead in all these states, but it's very early. we have to be careful with the horserace polls. people still are not paying attention to this electoral cycle, this matchup, but these estates will be critical in determining the election outcome. 1.i would make is always be careful of looking at national polls. we make this mistake a lot. they are indicative or

suggestive of the trend but don't determine the outcome of an election. host: we are expecting another close election this year as it was in 2020. your most recent polling shows a tight one point between biden and trump. there's 11% who are looking at maybe another candidate. 5% are saying they would not vote. 7% are saying they don't know or refuse to answer. the number of people, is that comment at this point in the cycle that people may not know or say who they will be voting for? host: there's always uncertainty, whether it be in the u.s. or another country. about 25% of the population now is paying attention. so this is normal. these things will shore up over time. some will not vote. probably about half. the other half will ultimately make a decision one way or the other. but this is normal. host: lets talk with some of our

callers. first up is john from hampton, georgia on the republican line. john, go ahead. can you mute your tv? ok. let's move on to dixie in alabama calling on the independent line. dixie, you are on. caller: good morning. great to talk to you all. i am an independent and i am supporting robert kennedy. so i was curious about two things. one, when you talk about democracy being in danger, is that also considered because of corporate capture? the second thing is funding of campaigns. did the democrats and

republicans, the major parties, have a different amount that individuals can contribute to their campaigns compared to, like, the independent parties? guest: those are great questions and i will go right at them. ultimately, when it comes to saving democracy, that's sort of a very broad concept. you know, the meaning can vary a bit. for the left, it means saving democracy from trump. for the right, it's much more about sort of fixing a broken system. it's a theme that we are seeing all over the world. we are not just seeing and hearing the united states. like i was saying, we believe at ipsos this will be the primary issue that will organize both campaigns going into november. when it comes to campaign financing, not an expert on. i think it is all the same. i think the rules are basically constant across parties and

whatever political persuasion you might be but i don't have specific knowledge of that. host: peter from minnesota, also on the independent line. peter, you are on. caller: i was wondering about your opinion on the unholy alliance between the media and the democratic party and do the republicans even have a chance to counter that in any way? guest: yeah. obviously, media today is highly politicized. if you put this term "mainstream media," it has a very negative connotation among more conservative individuals, republicans. if you put up fox or another one, has a negative connotation for democrats. my experience globally, while we

have a highly fractured media landscape, it's pretty competitive. we have competitive media outlets on the right. we have competitive media outlets on the left and some even in the middle and they are battling it out. i think it's a healthy thing in a vibrant democracy even if it can be partisan. host: are people trusting the media when it comes to these campaign cycles? guest: know, increasingly less. nothing specifically about this electoral cycle but the media have lost trust with the american population. that goes back to the backdrop of this election and elections around the world today. there's a widespread belief that the system is broken and no longer works for the average person. that includes institutions and more specifically includes the media. host: miriam from texas calling on the democrat line. miriam, you are on. caller: yes. i don't know but i do believe in

numbers but the numbers that the our showing -- that the polls are showing don't reflect the reality that is happening. there was just an election in alabama or kansas -- i don't remember which state -- but that was, like, a super red district, and a democrat was able to win in that district with about 15 points. that should not have happened. so if you are comparing that to the national numbers that you are giving us, they don't make sense. they don't make sense at all. the past elections in the midterms, the numbers did not reflect the polls that you guys are showing us, and there's something going on with it.

i don't want to be a conspiracy theorist like the republicans are -- they are always coming up with weird ideas -- but there is something happening, and hopefully, hopefully, you guys will get your credibility back, because i want to be a believer in the process of polls but something is happening. host: is there a difference between state polling that's done and national polling? guest: first and foremost, polling, in my opinion, as a professional pollster, is the linchpin of democracy. it is important. so obviously the polling industry is critical. i wouldn't say so. ethic we have done a pretty good job over time -- i think we have done a pretty good job over time. we have had some misses but on

average we get the trends right. the world is a complex place and national polls will not necessarily reflect a state outcome. we have to be careful, especially when it's a horse race. people are not paying attention. we warn people to be careful at this point. there are other indicators, like biden's approval rating. we should be looking at those now. but as we had closer to election day, the polls will converge as people pay more attention. aiko comfortable with what we have -- i feel comfortable with what we have. sometimes we get it wrong but most of the time we get it right. host: shirley from orangeburg, south carolina on the democrat line. caller: good morning. i want to say i don't know how anybody could be thinking about voting for this donald trump --

guest: it's very strong -- they will motivate people, election day, come the time to actually vote. that will be driving them ultimately. in this 80 vote, nothing else --

in this anti-vote, nothing else really matters. it will be and is a strong driver of the vote on both the right end of the left but especially when it comes to biden. host: you are talking about these anti-voters but there are also people who may not have an interest in either and may sit out the vote instead. what is the polling showing on that? guest: that's a complex picture. you could talk to five different pollsters and get five different answers. it is somewhere between 10% and 15% of the population. at least by ipsos polling, they have a more conservative profile. they are slightly to the right. you have females may be a little bit more suburban, younger, maybe the dobbs issue had an effect.

these traditionally would be trump voters or republican voters, many of them, but they are disaffected. they should be biden's voters, he should be able to capture them, but they are unsure whether they want to throw their vote the other way. so this is a battleground that will play out over the course of the cycle. host: let's go to steve in illinois on the independent line. caller: yes. everybody is complaining about democracy and having donald trump on the ballot. donald trump left the white house in 2020 and there's people on the ballots that they can vote for. if you want to vote for kennedy, i guess, he should be on the ballot. and trump's going to be on the

ballot, of course. we have to think about democracy, about the four wars that i think biden has caused, proxy wars that he's caused, ukraine, israel, yemen, and somalia and that -- underneath trump, there was not one war. he wanted us to get out of afghanistan and people are complaining about trump. i just don't understand it. and no 80-year-old man should tell a woman what rights they have. it's -- if they want to do

whatever they want with their bodies, they should be able to do whatever they want. it's their body. it's their liberty. host: ok, steve. thank you so much. what about the candidates' record, their actual record while in office and what they have done, how does that influence voters decisions? guest: it has less of an impact than you would think. really, voting is about things that impact your day-to-day life. the voters will be asking questions. is my life better off now than it was before? do i trust that my life will be better off looking forward? sort of a checklist of what was done. maybe policy wonks like us think like that a bit but the average voter does not. it will be more about emotion, how you feel about what's happened since last time, projecting into the future about what you think will happen.

the caller made some great points but i think the one significant takeaways that, really, in my mind, this is the first time that democracy real large has been weaponized in the united states. we see this in other countries. i was in brazil and latin america for 10 years and worked through a lot of populist governments and it is significant to see one side using the theme saving democracy, the other side saying it's broken and we have to fix it. this is something we would -- we have not really experienced in the modern era, this sort of rhetoric. and obviously come as a pollster, we are interested to see how it plays out -- obviously, as a pollster, we are interested to see how it plays out. at -- as citizens, it is something maybe we should reflect on. host: some of your polling shows the trump does have a slight

edge over joe biden, about 16% of people are looking at rfk junior. that type of support for an independent at this point in the cycle, is that something we have seen before or is it an outlier? guest: guest: that's a great question. if we take away the name rfk and just have a nondescript candidate, we get 10%. that suggests that in general, independent of who is running, a bunch of americans are disaffected. that's the first take away. but it's a large number. 16% is not insignificant. whether it helps trump or biden more, like i said, the debate is raging at this point. what we know is that third-party candidates tend to fizzle out as we get closer to election day. why is that? there's two things. some of those people don't vote. the second is people are thinking about the value of their vote. so am i going to vote for rfk

and allow trump to win or vote for rfk and allow biden to win? that's called strategic voting. that happens in the united states but we don't have so much experience with third-party candidates. we see it a lot in europe, where they have multiple parties, and people jump at the end because they want their vote to matter. host: christina in georgia calling on the democratic line. you are on. caller: good morning. i know many people are calling and asking what it means to lose democracy and i wish your guest would have been more upfront. to lose democracy means we would live like north korea, like cuba, like russia. you would lose your freedom. i think that americans don't know what it is. the country will be run by a dictator and trump has made several comments that he wants to be a dictator.

his sister, his family, his wife, his first wife said he had a love for hitler. to lose democracy means you don't have no freedom. we will have -- we will not have a c-span to call. we will be just like cuba. we see the republicans already working towards destroying the educational system with this project 2025. and another thing is that we will not have -- trump has said he wants to be a dictator. the main thing that will happen, all these people that love their guns, there's no dictatorship that allows people to have guns. that will be the first thing they will come and do because one thing it will prove his he lied. trump lied, the republicans lied. the republicans are not for the people. please read. educate yourself.

we are all going to lose, republicans, democrats, independents. the people that are planning on giving rfk their vote, you will be giving trump the vote. please, i urge you to read. you do not want to live like russia, like cuba, like north korea, and trump -- one thing people need to take. he loves -- tell me who your friends are and i will tell you who you are. this man loves victor orban, that he had in florida the other day. he loves these people. ask yourself why. can't use common sense and ask yourself lives? host: when you're asking questions in a poll and you ask about threats to democracy, how much information are you

giving to somebody you are polling or is it open-ended? how do they make their answer? guest: in this case, the data we cited today, we provided a list for people. so it was not an unaided or volunteered response. we gave a list of problems. so we do it that way. we do it other ways as well. often we do focus groups to hear people's issues, triangulate things that come up. i would -- two responses to the caller. the first is, at ipsos, and personally, we are independent neutral pollsters. we make no value judgment about what's going on. we want to capture the real pulse of america and bring it to all of you like we are here. the second point is i think she represented the talking points of the democratic party very

much, what the democratic party or biden would say on the campaign trail, and these talking points will be used over and over again to convince voters to vote for biden. and it is persuasive, that argument, for a large swath of the population. weather is 50% plus one we will see on election day. host: charlie in new york calling on the independent line. caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. first, i would like to mention that the polls -- i worry about a number of things, one being people who work at the polls, probably you are looking at less people that want to because of threats. and you can figure out which side we are talking about in terms of threats. so it's a little concerning that -- how the polls have been --

when people get to the polls, what's going to happen. the other thing, though, is that we are in a situation where we only have two candidates even though, in new york, let me say that it does not matter because biden, based on your polls, he's way in front. it's no different than back in the day when people in new york voted for ralph nader. it was not a problem. but certainly somebody in florida, if they voted for him, because the polls it was too tight, did not vote for al gore. so needless to say, i think there's people who still don't understand that, and it would be good because if it was up to most of the people in the united states, the two-party system would be thrown away. i mean, just like citizens united should be thrown away. people do not want corporate

people controlling the elections. in regard to donald trump, let me say this. it's easter good > heat -- it is easter. he's talking about his issues relative to -- my favorite thing in the bible. he could not even mention anything. i would doubt -- to the evangelicals out there, i don't think donald trump knows the lord's prayer. bottom line is we are in dangerous territory but i worry more about the people who work at the polls. and lastly, the reason people flocked to donald trump as they did to bernie's because people were upset during 2008 when the

rich, the banks were let go without being penalized and they were looking for -- when sarah palin came along, donald trump followed, and there you go. thank you for your time. happy easter to anybody who celebrates it out there. host: anything in response to charlie? guest: are polling suggests there is a fear of political violence in general. this is a question we could not have even imagined asking if years ago. indeed, like i said, i cut my teeth in other places where these sorts of things happen more and they were typical questions. there's a tense contest, highly polarized context, and a lot of trepidation and fear among americans about what will happen the day after. will we be able to come to consensus about the outcome? we have not been able to do it

in the recent past. it's critical for democracy because there's no one out there that just anoints the person as the new executive, the new president, and so there's a lot of worry with public opinion on the one hand and decision-makers on the other about what will happen the day after the election. host: wendy from woodland hills, california calling on the democrat line. wendy? caller: hi. good morning. it's nice to have the opportunity to voice an opinion. i am flabbergasted at the law. if any of us citizens were behaving like donald trump, we would be locked up. there's one law for him and another for everybody else. he's a very sick, narcissistic person, and very dangerous to run our great country. and the people have just drank

the kool-aid -- the people that don't see this have just ranked the kool-aid. it is apparent. i am very, very worried for our great country. joe biden, over the past four years, has one of the best records of any modern-day president in doing things. donald trump killed over one million people during cushion. joe biden pulled us out of covid.he saved the economy. he's added jobs. sure, he is not perfect o yes, he's od. donald trump is only a few years younger. this is a very, very, very sick, dangerous man, and those who don't see it are just naive and not educated, and he will take away all your rights and it's

already apparent. that's all i want to say and i'm so glad that you have a forum like you do to be able to express an opinion on national television. thank you so much. happy holidays. guest: if we take the polling, about half the american population agrees with the caller. there's four cases going on at this point. we polled on all of them at about 50% of americans believe donald trump is guilty. there's huge partisan differences. on the one hand, in the teens or so, 10% to 15% depending on the question of republicans believe he's guilty, and 80% plus of democrats believe he's guilty. the cultist represents that divide. there is part of the population that believes he

deserves to go to jail and be convicted and another half of the population that believes it's all politically motivated. that's our country today, the tale of two americas. host: and those trials are either underway or have yet to get started but you did do some polling and it found that a plurality of americans say that a conviction of former president trump impact their likelihood to support them, but also, 32% said that they would be less likely to support him. what does that tell you? guest: we don't know. there's uncertainty. we have the indictments did not have an effect. those are already baked into the numbers and did not affect voting intentions. we do think that if he were to be convicted there would be some effect, but how much -- you know, one third of the vote, probably not. but we think there could be

something like a few points, a point or two affect on his outcome. the swing states will be key because they are already very close. host: joy in tulsa, oklahoma calling on the independent line. caller: i don't know how many times you conduct a poll but i will tell you what get polled for everything for every election and it's annoying to turn on the television and see yet another poll with the same questions asked. how many times do you have to ask somebody do you think biden's age is a factor? i don't need to hear this every two or three days on television. wen yu poll and are asking -- win you poll people and asked this question about do you think you're better off now, do you then follow up with, you realize nobody was going anywhere, right? the reason gas prices were low is because nobody was moving. my first question is how often do you poll?

why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again every couple months? guest: ok. i guess there's a lot there to unpack. we are in the field all the time and obviously, when there's news happening, we will poll on the news. for a time, age was an issue. it will be an issue for the campaign but there was a news cycle when age was the point of focus for the news media and all of us pollsters, including ipsos, polled on that. but we will probably not poll on that continually. for the most part, we follow the news cycle on specific questions. we have other questions, like approval ratings, that we track all the time and watch, because approval ratings are important for predicting elections. they are very predictive and we want to have a measure over time of what public opinion is going with respect to the case of approval ratings.

our polls have questions more related to the news cycle and more that are constant that we believe are essential for understanding the pulse of america. host: there's a lot to keep track of and we are 220 days away from election day. what will you be keeping an eye on between now and then? guest: right now, we are not looking so much of the horserace polls. voting intention or matchups are just not the issue today. we will be looking at the main problems. as i mentioned before, they are predictive of electoral outcomes. it's a changing scenario where the economy is getting better. we think saving democracy will be the issue but it could be immigration, which helps trump, so we will be focused on that issue set and how it evolves over time. host: we have time for one more call. we will go to rudy in indiana on the republican line. caller: how are you doing?

it's rodney. host: sorry, rodney. caller: you are fine. thank you for having me on. host: go ahead. what's your question? caller: i don't have a question, more like an opinion. i have been listening to the previous callers who set us republicans who believe donald trump is the best thing for our company are naive and uneducated. to that person, i would like to say you are probably a generational democrat. your granddad and dad and everybody in your family are probably democrats but let me tell you my opinion. our country has declined so much. i feel like i'm living in a third world country. joe biden and his administration has decimated our economy. our open borders. we have immigrants punching women in the face, beating up our cops, transgenderism in schools, sexual indoctrination.

i mean, it is just a laundry list of things that the democrats are pushing, and it's destroying the secular family. that i want masculine men. just like daniel penny, the marine facing charges for murder for a chokehold to protect people. i mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. and i believe donald trump is going to be the only person who can stand up to the deep state because it's more than just politics. this is good versus evil and in my opinion it's the fate of our nation in this election. and if people don't start opening their eyes, these generational democrats, just because they have been voting that way and their whole family voted that way for years and it's pounded in their brains, like it's the only way and the right way, they have to educate themselves. it is plain, clear and visible to see what they are doing. it is destroying america. when obama got elected, he said he would fundamentally change america.

in my opinion, he's done it, and it's not for the best. trump 2024. that's all i can say. guest: i think the caller represents your prototypical maga voter. there's a deep-seated fear of cultural change driven in part by anti-immigrant feelings. it really is a central driver of republicanism today, in my opinion, and trump channels that grievance. this is why he is so strong. and he can go through all these other issues with legal troubles and still maintain a float because there's a huge swath of america that is fearful of what is to come and wishes america was like it was. host: ok. chris young, president of u.s. public affairs for ipsos, thank you for being with us. guest: thank you so much. host: that's it for today's

washington journal. we will be back tomorrow at 7 a.m. with another program. thanks for being with us and enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]