thank you so much for joining us. guest: thank you. host: thanks to everyone who called or texted or posted on social media. we will be back tomorrow with another session of "washington journal." thank you so much and have a wonderful day. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

♪ host: good morning, it is sunday, march 31st, 2024. today, many christians around the world are celebrating easter. in the united states, religious service attendant is on the decline while there is a growing debate about the role of religion should play in american politics. this morning we want to hear from you. do you support more or less religion in public life? i number free democrats, (202) 748-8000. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002.

if you'd like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. and on social media you can reach us on facebook.com/c-span or on x at c-spanwj. if you write in, make sure to let us know your name and where you are writing from. to start us off with some data about the way americans receive religion in public life let's look at some numbers from the peer research center which found that eight in 10 americans say religion is losing influence in public lif 4 say that religion is losi iluence and th this is a bad thing. an additional 8% think religion's influence is growing and that is a good thing and a combined 57% of u.s. adults expressed a positive view of religion's influence on americans lives.

that is a study that came out in march, 2024. you can find that on their website more information, so here is a chart revealing that share who say religion's influence is declining which is as high as it has ever been, and then most american to say religion's influence is shrinking are not happy about it. together, a combined 57%, a clear majority express a positive view of religion's influence in american life. you can see that here with the net positive view of religion there. the study also finds that about half of u.s. adults say it is fairy or someone orton to them to have a president who has strong religious beliefs, even if those beliefs are different from their own. relatively few americans view either of the leading presidential candidates as very religious.

13% of americans say they think president joe biden is very religious, and just 4% say this about former president donald trump. last week, former president trump announced the launch of a leather bound, large print king james bible in a post on truth social and called for more religion in america. here is a portion of those comments. from: religion and christianity are the biggest things missing from this country and i truly believe that we need to bring them back and we have to bring them back, is one of the biggest problems we have. that is why our country is going haywire, we lost religion in our country. all americans need a bible in their home and i have many. it's my favorite book, a lot of people's favorite book. the bible is a reminder that the biggest thing we have to bring back to america -- to make america great again is our religion. religion is so important, it is so missing but it is going to come back and it is going to

come back strong just like a country is going to come back strong. in the end, we do not answer to bureaucrats in washington, we answer to god in heaven. christians are under siege. we must protect content that is pro god, we love god and we have to protect anything that is pro god. we must defend god in the public square and not allow the media where the left-wing groups to silence, censure or discriminate against us. we have to bring christianity back into our lives and back into what will be again a great nation. our founding fathers did a tremendous thing when they built america on judeo-christian values. now that foundation is under attack, perhaps as never before. what can we do? stand up, speak out and pray that god will bless america again. i am proud to endorse and courage you to get this bible. we must make america pray again

host: once again we are looking for your thoughts on whether you support more or less religion in public life. again, those numbers free democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8003. we will start out in maryland with janice on the line for democrats. caller: yes, good morning. we are speaking about bibles today and more religion, it is really a shame. trump is talking about selling bibles, that god died on the cross for all of us and we have to pray to have more religion. god is first and foremost. he is the only one that is the judge, jury, so people had better start waking up.

it is about -- and who is going to be in the white house. the bible, he holds it upside down. it's a shame, but i thank god for today -- host: thank you so much for your call. let's hear from marlene in minneapolis, minnesota on our line for independents. caller: morning. i think we have less religion in our politics and happy transgender day visibility. easter is another day -- visibility -- not take easter

over. i just want to say that we need less religion in politics and more peace and love toward the lgbt people because we are getting hurt out here. thank you, you all have a good day. host: thank you. next up is september in jacksonville, florida on the line for republicans. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: icu on the tv. wave to me. host: tello there, how are you, what is your comment? should there be more or less religion in public life? caller: listen, religion is a form of a cult. what i think should be going on is both parties should come together. there is a whole lot going on other than democratic and republican and independent. i am going to encourage my babies and cousins, don't even vote. we don't need to vote. we don't need this.

this is stressful. host: ok, thank you. let's hear from steve in florida on the line for democrats. caller: religion in public life and of religion in politics are two different things. back in the 80's, i feel like religion became date religion. it became corporate and it became a political force and there was a marriage between conservative evangelical christians and the republican party, and there was a lot of money going back and forth. i really believe that if a major religion declares their support for a major political party than they should lose their 5-0 on iiic and they should start paying taxes. host: thank you, steve.

one of our earlier callers mentioned trans davis ability. i wanted to point out this article here from politico. the transgender day of visibility, president biden publicly celebrated both days, conservatives responded furiously. the culture wars have reached easter. president joe biden on friday issued a proclamation recognizing march 31 as transgender day of visibility just as he has commemorated the day every year since he has been in office. as easter sunday falls on march 31 this year, conservatives responded furiously accusing the president, who is catholic, of attempting to stifle christian values by highlighting the event during an important religious holiday. the controversy which has galvanized conservatives in which transgender advocates say is manufactured is the latest in a series of social conflict that has enveloped the political process and the current electoral cycle.

the transgender day of visibility observed on march 31 each year with started by advocates 15 years ago as a way to celebrate transgender people and raise awareness of the discrimination they face. easter falls on a different day each year as determined by a calculation validity lunar phases. the overlap between the two this year is coincidental. next, let's hear from jim in michigan on the line for republicans. good morning, jim. caller: yeah, you took away what i was just going to say. host: sorry, go ahead. caller: i don't believe it's right. they could pick another day. this is god's day, thank you. host: ok, jim. michael is in detroit on the line for independents. . caller: yes. the question that you propose regarding religion, i think somewhat of an oxymoron because

religion is just a way my and it is part of worship. hello? host: we can hear you. caller: it is a part of worship and the human being is created to worship something. whether it is worshiping ideas, whether they are conscious or unconscious of their philosophy that is governing their lives. the question should be what sense of morality does this country have, and the religion of america is capitalism. we cover it with an identity with christ, but if you look in the bible, they follow absolutely very little of what christ has promoted. it is in the bible that christ

said none of you based upon the choices and the actions that govern your way of riffing, your value system. the value system of this country , it has to be more satanic than it is god-fearing. laws are made by god, and laws are not made by man. when man makes laws that is to certain groups of humans. host: i want to bring in a bit more information here about have some politicians see the role of religion in public life. speaker johnson says the separation of church and state is a misnomer. this is an article from the hill from back in november where he pushed back on the belief that there should be a separation between church and state in the u.s., arguing that the founding

fathers wanted states to be a big part of government and he made those comments on cnbc where he was asked about the separation of church and state and playing on the -- house floor, here are some of those comments. >> i just want to ask a separate question you talked about quite openly and publicly, the importance of faith in your life. i think it with the first day that you had been sworn in, it appeared that you were praying on the floor of congress with a number of other congressmen, and there is a question about the separation of church and state. we often talk on the show about folks about whether religion should play a role in a company, whether people should be allowed to pray inside a company. it is one thing to pray outside and to have your space and there is a great importance in that, but how do you think about that and how do you think about the public perception of that? >> listen, faith is a big part

of what it means to be an american. when the founders set this system up they want a vibrant expression of faith in the public sphere because they believe that a general moral consensus and virtue is necessary to maintain this grand experiment we created. we don't have a middleman, so we have to keep morality amongst us so that we have accountability. they wanted this to be part of that. the separation of church and state is a misnomer, people misunderstand. it comes from a phrase in a letter that jefferson wrote, not in the constitution. he was explaining that they did not want the government to encroach upon the church not that they did not want it suppose of faith to have influence on public life. washington's end of all the dispositions and habits, religion and morality are --. john adam came next and set our constitution made only -- is wholly inadequate to government of any other. they knew it would be important to maintain our system and that

is why we need more of it. not an establishment of any national religion but we need everybody to have a vibrant expression of faith because it is so important to who we are as a nation. host: speaker johnson referenced a letter from thomas jefferson. there is more information on that. the letter that johnson referred to is thomas jefferson's 1802 letter to the danbury baptist association that expressed concerns about religious liberty. in his reply, jefferson said that the first amendment which barred congress from prohibiting the free exercise of religion built a wall of separation between the church and the state. johnson was also referencing the desired that they should be no establishment of a religion, and it should be mentioned that we are still celebrating ramadan this month if you are a muslim in this country. more than two thirds of muslim americans refer giving charity during ramadan. a new survey shows that nearly 70% of muslims in the united

states practice -- during ramadan, the muslim month of fasting. the survey conducted by the muslim philanthropy initiative found that gender, age, race, income, marital status, religiosity and voter registration status with the factors that influence mobile -- muslim american's preferences for paying the cot during ramadan. the importance of ramadan to muslims has long been discussed said the v's -- lead researcher of the study. he told voice of america in an email that the survey indicates the importance of ramadan when it comes to their charitable giving. back to speaker johnson's comments, there was also response when speaker johnson made those comments related to the separation of church and stat d the were all kinds of universal values we ought to be

attudes and develop a pretty good list that the attitudes a referencing bible verses that give them guidn hoto live. you could just read that and develop a pretty good list. where it breaks down is the tortured culture war that becoreligious war for many of. anytime you start trying t impose religion onthers through the d throw public institutions, that is just a redline and there is no room for compromise on that. that was from roll call also in november of last year. now then, let's hear from chicago, illinois, for independents. caller: hello, good morning. thank you for taking my call. hello? host: we can hear you. more or less religion in public life? caller: much, much less. much less. i am a buddhist.

i am quite worried about what former president trump says. everybody has to read the bible. what to you think? i read the bible when i was in high school and actually my first girlfriend was catholic, and she wanted me to be a priest. as a buddhist family, i read the bible but i told her christianity is not my religion. i prefer to be a buddhist for confucius.

in asia, especially in japan where i am from, we believe in buddhism or shintoism. and shinto is as you know, the emperor's families religion. it is the emperor's family religion. there's no place for religion and politics in japan. and what happened unfortunately was that one religious group, they funded lots of money for the democratic party -- host: thank you very much for the international context, that is very helpful. i want to read a text message we chigan who says jesus taught that when you pray to not b like the hypocrite the

love to pray standing in synagogu on e street when yy, go into your men. room, close the door and pray to your fato isnseen. urelhas no place in politics and strength knows no religion other than serving himself. last month, president biden would join congressional leaders at the 2024 national prayer festival at the u.s. capitol and luta's" in discussing the need for tolerance as well as american exceptionalism. the challenge of host: host: our times reminds us of our responsible as a nation. help each other in lasting peace. delivery abroad and here at home. that is what we are fighting against, the rise in anti-semitism, islamophobia and all forms of faith including those against south asian americans. this is a call to stand against

hate. to remember the very idea of america. we are all created equal. the only nation based on ideas. we hold these truths to be self-evident, we are all created equal. we deserve to be treated equally throughout our lives. we have never walked away from it, either. it is a covenant we have with one another that holds this nation together. quite frankly, i knew it before i became president because i did a lot of foreign policy in the previous administration. but we are the beacon to the world. the entire world looks to us and that is not hyperbole. this idea was made real before the soul became flesh, before the dream became a fact. it was prayed for, hoped, believed in. that is the story of america.

today marks the first time the national prayer record as being held here in statuary hall. this is where the house of representatives met for 50 years leading up to the civil war. the congress with abraham lincoln set at desk 191 before becoming president. canceling us to heed the better angels of our nature, the better angels of our nature. we would do well to remember what he said just a few moments before he concluded that same address. in a moment of deep division in our nation, president lincoln said we are not enemies. he said we are not enemies. but friends. we must not be enemies, he went on to say. i long believed we have to look

at each other even in our most challenging times not as enemies, but as fellow americans. scripture tells us the truth of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. i believe that is our collective calling today. host: status president biden speaking last month at the national prayer breakfast. a couple more comments we received, yes, absolutely there ou be more religion. it woulde better country. randy and millington, michigan says i believe wneed less religion in the public life. what we doeed is more people reecng all people and not trying to force belief oth. it would be nice to see those they claim to be religious actually live by what the bible says.

next up, tutman, west virginia on the line for demoats. caller:ood morning. it has been 44 days since my last call. i think the question this morning is kind of odd because of congress, the people we send to washington, if that is a reflection of the electorate of the american people and the american people are gradually becoming less religious, then congress should reflect that. but on the other hand, if trump was to win in november, the heritage foundation has something called project 2025 which would definitely hoist a lot more fascist christian nationalism of the country. when i saw that clip of donald trump parking a $60 bible, which

i wonder if his signature is stamped inside the front cover of that bible, and he was talking about we need more religion, we need more christianity, we need more prayer, anyone who looks at that man and listens to him has to see through this. when he was in office, he would have evangelical leaders come into the white house and come into the oval office and he would sit at his desk and they would surround him and they would lay hands on him and pray on him and he would close his eyes obediently for the cameras because that kind of scene always played well to his face. but anyone who thinks that donald trump is some kind of remotely god-fearing man has got to be hopelessly naive. but i see who he was playing to when he was trying to hawk that $60 bible and talking about prayer and christianity and everything. he is appealing to his base, his base loves that.

but as far as some kind of one of the christian, -- wannabe christian, he is a charlatan. he is not any kind of god-fearing man. host: you reference christian nationalism and they want to give our audience a bit more information on that topic. here is an article where they look at a pole where they found most americans are cool to christian nationalism as its influence grows. the share of people who say they adhere to or sympathize with christian nationalism overall, about 30% in the u.s. so about two thirds of americans reject or are skeptical about christian nationalism despite its rising influence in shaping education, immigration and health care policy. some republicans are openly expressing christian nationalist view which have ranged from calls for more religion in schools to book bans and even

suggestions that democracy should die. the strange ideology has become prevalent in some deeply red state at a time when the nation overall is increasingly diverse and less religious. new data from the nonpartisan public religion research institute comes days after the alabama supreme court ruled that frozen embryos should receive legal protections as unborn life and cited christianity in its ruling. scrolling down a little bit more, republicans are more than twice as likely as independents and three times more likely than democrats to hold christian nationalist views, the survey found, and to get any idea of what that means, according to axios, it is a set of beliefs centered around white american, christianity dominant in most aspects of life in the united states. many christian nationals believe the federal government should declare the u.s. a christian nation.

many also believe u.s. laws should be based on christian values and that god has called christians to exercise dominion over all areas of american society. a counterpoint on that is in the washington times, christian nationalism panic must be called out for exactly what it is, is what that headline says. this is an opinion piece from february 28 of this year that says fears over this purported christian nationalist takeover are ever present these days, but the real menace is something our morphine dish. at best, -- far more fiendish. at worst, a strategic ever to obliterate ideological opponents. and if you scroll down a bit, it says that christian nationalism is an exacerbated term.

is there such a thing as christian nationalism? probably in a church in south carolina somewhere hidden in the back woods. is it a national issue? no. don't misunderstand me, i'm not claiming christian nationalism doesn't exist at all nor am i claiming no one fits the bill. i'm simply offering up the obvious. this problem is nowhere near as something or as perilous as claimed. that is in washington times once again. with the back to your cause. beth is in florida on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say amen to -- from west virginia, the democrat. i've been a republican for more than half a century but i believe in everything he said. if you read our constitution, it gives us the right to have whatever religious beliefs that

we want to have. that is what it is giving us. it does not give any single one of us the right to force our personal religion on anybody else. i just watched a program yesterday in regard to easter and it was talking about the nativity that is run by 13 different sects of christians and is talking about how the priests in that church will get in a fight, sweeping the floor because they are of different sects of the christian religion. but the constitution says we can have our own personal beliefs and feel free to believe however we choose. it does not give us the right to impose our beliefs on anybody else, and that is the thing that these christian nationalist need to learn, because i don't

believe that they are christians to begin with because if you are a christian, you're going to take from the bible in the old testament, the 10 commandments, and from the new testament you're going to teach jesus' teaching, honor thy neighbor as thyself. they are not practicing that. host: sydney is in louisiana on the line for independents. caller: yes. if you go to the declaration of independence, 1776, first paragraph, the laws of nature and nature's god. now, we have taken the taxes off the churches and now they are flying around in their jets, they are buying up land, they are buying up business and they

don't pay taxes and they are just trying to take over. we are going to end up having a religious war again. when they left england, one reason was the churches. i appreciate you listening and i wish you would look at the declaration of independence and the first paragraph. thank you. host: while we look up that detail, i do want to point out first amendment to the constitution which does say as we've referenced a couple of times this morning congres shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the freexeise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or of the right of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for redress of grievances. new york city, the line for

democrats, good morning. caller: good morning, happy easter. how are you doing? host: doing all right. caller: my first time calling. host: thanks for calling in. caller: thank you very much. honestly, what really is scaring me the most is listening to the whole case this week in texas, and believe the whole concept about how donald trump really was sold on getting supreme court justices, especially now that roe v. wade has been overturned i'm really concerned about what i was watching this week from mayorhart talking about the lines of hippocratic medicine. if you really read her website, it talks in the first line about god and the problem right now that i have is that now we are pretty much seeing a minority of the nation talking about how we

should really be pushing everybody else, and i feel that bike now if we are in a situation where we are talking about pushing or banning abortion because it is not a state right, this is going to be a national issue. i am concerned right now is a jewish man and i think about the muslim community, i think about buddhist community. right now our voices are not being heard at all because we are a nation of all people and religions and opinions. i don't want to rant too much, i just feel like this whole thing is really scaring me about where the country is going. as a nation we should all really understand that this election is a very big deal, people. donald trump is a threat to this country and we need to wake up and realize that. thank you for hearing me today and happy easter again. host: thanks for being a first time caller. i want to bring in some other new that jake referenced related to the alabama ivf ruling.

this is a story from february 22 of this year. the alabama justice invoked the wrath of a holy god in the opinion. is that allowed? and alabama supreme court ruling is torn open and emotionally charged debate about whether some aspects of ivf represent a form of abortion and should be banned under religious principles. in his concurring opinion last week and in february, chief justice parker and elected republicans invoke this reasoning. in summary, the sanctity of life adapted by the people of alabama encompasses the following. one, god made every person in his image. two, each person therefore has a value that are exceeds the ability of human beings to calculate. three, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy god who views the destruction of his image as an affront to

himself. legal scholars say indicating religion is an unusual step for a judge and advocates are concerned about injecting religion into what they see as a medical decision to have a family. the substance of the ruling is not a surprise at all, but the language used is completely out of towns, unusual to an extreme degree set a law professor in family law expert at the university of colorado boulder. back to your calls, matt is in texas on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, ma'am. i would just like to say that all of us are going to have to stand before judgment one day. and these people that are calling in saying they are for abortion, murdering babies, you are going to stand before god

and you are not arguing with christian conservatives in this country, you arguing with god. host: so you think there should be more or less religion in public life? caller: well, i think there should be more christianity everywhere, but the democrats are telling god or a lot of people who are calling in are saying that they know more than god. god creates all life. all life. see you are telling him i know more than you do, i will murder your baby anytime i want. now, you're going to stand before judgment and the lord god and you are going to tell him that i stood by these democrats and these people that want to vote for abortion and murder your babies. host: i think we got your idea. patrick is in oregon on the line for independents. caller: hi. host: hi.

caller: i've got one opinion, there should be less religion in government. but my wife thinks different about that. go ahead. caller: oh my gosh. the separation of church and state is for a reason. we as people have independent thought and it should be respected. this make america great again is a giant step back in our society. host: i know we was talking to patrick earlier, what is your name? caller: my name is paula, i am his wife. host: thank you both for calling in. next up we will hear from ohio on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: hi, i have to echo in

part with the last caller from the independent line just said. the of church and state is one of the very founding doctrines of america. we wouldn't have america without it. of the things i would like, such as the republican caller that was earlier talking about the need for church in government, pretend you are of the faith of the islamic faith and you are a member of the taliban. this is what the sort of government, the taliban promotes is non-separation of church and state. and it is that kind of reflection that more americans think we need to do to understand the reality that american democracy means people get to believe what they wish

and not inform their political life in their governmental life. that is all i have to say today. host: thanks for your call. donald is in allentown, pennsylvania on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, i asked my priest, i would like to not feel like a hypocrite and vote for mr. trump and he says we've got to at least eliminate three of the 10 commandments. thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, thou shall not steal secret documents. so i kind of don't know what to do. so that is my comment for this morning and thanks for hearing me. host: thanks. nick is in irvington, new jersey on the line for any. -- for independents. caller: good morning.

putin opened up a false and it is the oldest vault for christianity and showed that jesus christ is a black man and nobody unless there is news on tiktok or facebook or youtube, this white national christian says his country is going to start worshiping the black jesus. also, the bible says that god creates the light and the darkness. so when he is judging us, he should be the one to be judged because he is the one that created everything. no human being gets to tell other human being that he is evil or anything else. that is all i have to say, thank you. host: thank you for that. i wasn't able to find this article that you were referencing about russia, but i

am seeing a report here from the fact checking service and it is referencing that story and it is saying that upon a fact check that that is actually not true. the post falsely claimed videos show russian president saying jesus was black. moscow has increasingly pursued ties with several west african nations, uses in africa recently shared two videos claiming they show russian president that amir putin saying that new discovered religious icons proof jesus was back, but the claim is false. the clips come from prudence new year's eve address. the leader made no mention of jesus'skin tone in either footage. viewed more than 10,000 times, the account that posted the clip regularly features content about

africa and the same footage was also widely shared on x. the three minute clip shows russian president vladimir putin speaking directly to the camera, his voice replaced by an english language voiceover. that does not seem to be a real video. next up, let's hear from cynthia in freeport, new york on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, everyone. i'm going to stand with religion to have less of an effect upon our politics, and that is internationally. we believe in powers that are inside and outside of our greater and always have been through our lives and at the same time, each one of us is a vessel of politicians, representatives, a leader, somebody that is supposed to be able to move us from where we

are to a better place. and i believe religion has a role in a church, in a building with a people who have a faith and we don't all share those things. we don't share those same ideologies, but we share the same space here in one international location. maybe russia or america, it doesn't matter where you are. we are hoping the left piece all over the land, and i don't believe religion is going to do that. what i do believe is that a great leader for each and every one of the countries should be able to fortify that. we start pulling religion then we begin to say are you in this sect or that secular, or where are you? and no, we are altogether here on one planet, supposed to be a coexisting peacefully, and we are hoping that these world leaders understand the needs of that, and they don't have

ulterior religions or ulterior motives in order to carry out leading us to improve life in the 21st century. host: thank you so much for that call. i also want to bring in some new information related to church attendance. this is an article that sort of mapped out religious service attendance in the united states, and the share of adults who say they never or rarely attend religious services which now stands at about 49%, vermont and new hampshire and maine have the highest share of adult who say they never or seldom attend church for religious services compared to the national average of 49%. more than three quarters of americans say religion's role in public life is shrinking, per a recent survey. the highest levels of the group started tracking the sentiment in 2001. many americans are unhappy about

that with about half of adults saying that though religion is losing influence and that this is a bad thing, and about 57% of adults say religion is a positive impact on american life. in eastern states, mississippi, alabama and louisiana have the lowest share of adult who say they never or seldom attend services, and nearly half of u.s. adults say they feel at least some tension between their religious beliefs and mainstream culture. that is up from 42% in 2020. on this program earlier this year, we talk to eastern illinois university -- who talked about his recent book which examines the views of americans who are religiously unaffiliated. the teary bit of his comments. the tenant of the book is the nuns, where they came from, who

they are, and where they are going. where did they come from? >> at the beginning there was only one type of person who became a nun. it was a lot of white people, a lot of educated white people. but you don't get to be 30% of the population by just being one thing, so now they are really coming from every aspect of american society it is both women and men. not just the white community, but african-american, latino, asian and other communities. it used to be all work liberals or left of center democrats. now we're seeing a rising number of conservative nuns or republican nuns. it used to be in new england or the pacific northwest, but now we are seeing 25% with 30% of people living in states like iowa and nebraska are nonreligious. so they are coming from every possible aspect of american society, every partisanship,

every race, every gender and every age. this is not just a young person's phenomenon. if you look at any person's generation, they are more likely to be nuns today than 2008. host: next up we have mason in alabama on our line for republican mason, did i say the name of your town right? caller: yes ma'am, you sure did. host: do you think there should be more or less religion in public life? caller: honestly i believe we need to see more religion in public. everybody else kind of dragging their point along but i honestly do think that more religion would help unite us. the caller before me saying that he doesn't think religion or god

, i don't understand who we have as a leader. while i am a republican voter, i don't see anybody with the tolerance to actually do this. whether it be donald trump or joe biden, or anything like that. i don't see anybody with that capability to do so because it just seems that our country is so divided right now. it honestly seems like the u.s. senate, the house of representatives and everybody else, they are trying to keep us divided. whether it be by race or by creed or religion, they are trying to keep us divided. host: rob is in syracuse, new york on the line for

independents. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm just calling to register my thought, dissatisfaction with the confusion of christian nationalist with the united states constitution which they seem to quote at length for instance, the value to read all of article six of the united states constitution which states quite clearly that there shall be no religious test whatsoever to hold office or position of public trust under the constitution. if they were to read article 2 where the presidential oath of office is set forth right there, the four awards that it does not contain is so help me god. under the first amendment, the

congress shall have no authority in the establishment of religion. we are in the historical fact of the original pledge of allegiance did not contain the phrase one nation under god, and the very historical fact that one of the most beautiful and original copies of the koran was brought back from paris and is on the shelf in the library of congress and brought to the united states by none other than thomas jefferson. so i believe that what we should be doing is rendering unto god what is god's, but unto caesar what is caesar's. host: thanks. ron and a few other folks have mentioned christian nationalism.

political theory professor paul miller des christian nationalism this way. christian natio in e belief that the american nation is defined by christianity and th the government should take active steps to keep it that way. polarly, christian nationalists assert that america is an must remain a christian nation, not nearly as an observation about american history but as a prescriptive program for what america must continue to be in the future. that was back in 2021 and dr. miller, a professor of the practice of international affairs at georgetown university and a research fellow with the ethics and religious liberties commission. now, let's hear from -- california on the line for democrats. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i really enjoyed the various viewpoints that have been

expressed. when i was a boy in salinas, california in grade school, i learned that various religious sects came to america, the quakers of pennsylvania, the catholics in maryland, and the conservation lists in new england. the problem became the dominant religion prevented other religions from expressing their beliefs. they persecuted the minority people. so what bothers jefferson and franklin and the others, they didn't want a state religion that have been established in previous generations and wanted multiple expressions of faith.

they lived in god, but they didn't believe in prescribing -- host: do you think there should be more or less religion in public life today? caller: yeah, so yes you can have religious views and follow them, but not have a state religion. thank you very much for taking my call. host: michael is in hagerstown, maryland on the line for caller: good morning. i am an elder at a christian church, we are getting ready to celebrate easter. host: what denomination? caller: not a denomination, just a church. there is just always this myth that people throughout that the constitution has something in it about separation of church and state that does not exist. it is nowhere in the constitution. it was a letter written by

thomas jefferson assuring them that we would not have a state-run church like the church of england. that is what we don't want. we don't want religion and government to be one and the same. we don't want one religion. even though i'm a christian, you can't force people to be christians and that is not part of our system. and we do have sort of a secular system right now where if you don't believe in evolution, you are sort of set aside and we get policy based on that like the climate hoax, the climate alarmism. evolution sort of created this mindset for policy changes. host: michael, you referenced

that letter from thomas jefferson which a couple of other folks have brought up this morning. here it is on the library of congress website. this is jefferson's letter to the danbury baptists. a portion of it says believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god that he owes account to none other for his faith or for his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions. i contemplate with solemn reverence of the whole american people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" thus building a wall of separation between church and state, adhering to the succession of the supreme will of the nation on behalf of the rights of conscience, i shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress which tends to restore to man all his

natural rights convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. this is, again, jefferson's letter to the denver area baptists and you can find that on the library of congress website next that we will hear from bob in new hampshire on the line for independents. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would just like to pose a question, and i'm not a christian nationalist, but pose a question to those that are concerned about christian influence on the government. if we are not going to follow christian values as far as laws and so forth are concerned, then what are we going to follow?

what is going to be our standard of value? the nation was founded on judeo-christian principles. and the other thing i would like to note, if we have complete separation of church and state, why is the president of the united states campaigning from church pulpits? is that separation of church and state, or why do others campaign from church pulpits? host: i want to go to another text message we received. the white house is now promoting transgender visibility during the celebration began. a country once founded on individual freedomigion being one, now worships a large government that lasts only for

power. america needs more religious ith and mental health facilities. i do want to point back to this article that we referenced earlier from lytic about this transgender day of visibility which has reported here is observed on march 31 each year and was started by advocates 15 years ago as a way to celebrate transgender people and raise awareness for discrimination they face. easter falls on a different date each year determined by a calculation related to lunar phases. the overlap between the two this year is coincidental. in his friday statement marking the globally-celebrated day, biden affirmed the rights and freedoms of all transgender americans, highlighting the rise of extremism against transgender youth in particular. bioreference the proliferation of laws that targeted terrified transgender kids and their

families, including those that banned books with lgbtq content and threaten health workers providing gender affirming care. a statement to politico on saturday, andrew bates added added that, it is unsurprising politicians are seeking to divide and weaken our country with cruel, hateful and dishonest rhetoric. president biden will never abuse for political purposes or profit. next we will hear from linda. caller: i believe in the strict separation of church and state. with the past president hawking bibles, now we have it separated by bookmarks. we have too much bloodshed in history when church is involved with state. too much turmoil. we cannot even get along in our government now without religion

in it. you put religion in the mix and it is just horrible. there is a mentality of us versus them come out with people who are immersed in its religious aspect. and them its knocked out of the box. them gets discriminated against. i do not want to be discriminated against. i believe in freedom from religion. host: we hear from robert douglas, who says, irt the idea of having less religion in public life. for any one person, relis and should only be a private matter. next on our last line for now is john in massachusetts on our line for republicans. good morning, john. can you hear us?

caller: yes, i can hear you. let me get this straight. this is a christian nation, right? this is a sane nation that says the conception of this country all presidents were masons. all presidents practiced all religions, right? this is why when you have jesuits who teach who created all these religions, islam, christianity -- host: you mention the u.s. -- caller: this is the reason we are at war. host: you mentioned the united state is a christian nation. what do you think of the turn christian nationalism? caller: i think history has been corrupted by the rulers. rockefeller, j.p. morgan. if they were christians, there would not be so much suffering. if they were not investing on

both sides of the war. host: last comment via text from ben in maryland, who says, i'm a public servant and try my best to practicmyeligion. when we love, forgive, speak life into all things, we are practicing our religion. will end the segment there for now, but next alexandria hudson will join us to discuss efforts to promote civility in american politics and her book, "the soul of civility." later we will hear from alexander heffner, whose television series focuses on fostering political unity. he will be joining us to discuss the current state of our nation's politics. we will be right back. >> dr. blackstock, her twin sister, and their mother are all gradtes of harvard medical

school quit making them the first black mother-daughter graduates in the program. tonight, dr. blackstock shares her book which looks at racism and other issues sheaf sees facing black doctors -- she sees facing black doctors today. >> looking at myself as a black woman with a harvard degree from undergrad and medical school, i am still more likely to dive pregnancy related obligations than my white counterparts. why would that happen? why is it happening in 2024? because our health care system, our health professionals, are still not adequately trained to care for the population. our patients are dying. i feel like this is politicizing a crisis that does not need to be politicized, that we have the statistics and numbers that show we could be caring for our patients in a more competent way

and that is a matter of life and death. >> dr. uche blackstock tonight on q&a. you can listen to all of our podcasts on our free app. >> dr. andrew pedigree is a british historian at st. andrews university in scotland. his specialty is the history of the book and media transformation. he has written a great deal about the written word with an emphasis on libraries. his latest book is titled the book at war: how reading shaped conflict and conflict shaped reading. professor pedigree writes, in all nations, once war broke out, writers on libraries work spec to deploy a full role in forging victory.

after the second world war, the allies face problems of how to sanitize or exploit the collections of the defeated. >> british historian andrew pedigree with his latest book. on this episode of book notes us. book notes plus is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> friday night, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly round up of c-span campaign coverage providing a one-stop shop to discover what candidates across the country are saying to voters along with first-hand accounts from political reporters come updated poll numbers, fundraising data, and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail on c-span, online at c-span.org, or download the

podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> celebrating the 20 anniversary of our annual documentary can petition, titian, c-span asked middle and haskell students across the country to look forward what considering the past. they were given the option to look 20 years into the future or past and respond. we received inspiring and thought-provoking document trees for over 3200 students across 42 states. our top award goes to 10th graders in connecticut. there documentary, "innocence held hostage." >> the united states must make more policy that faces restriction on all americans

traveling to iran. not only will we see -- less hostage taking, but the united states will no longer have to participate in such considerable negotiations with iran. >> don't miss out. the top 20 documentaries air on c-span every morning and roughout the day beginning on april 1. you can watch each of these studentcam films any time at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are joined now by alex hunter hudson, and author. her book is "the soul of civility." welcome to the program. what pronto you to write this book and focus on civility? >> guest: i could not not write this book. i had been taking about the topic of social norms and human

flourishing. my mother is an international expert on manners and etiquette who always taught my brothers and i how to sit at the table, how to shake hands just so. while i questioned the rules, i am somewhat allergic to authority and generally followed them because she said they would lease it success -- they would lead to success and she was right until i found myself in federal government. i took a role in washington, d.c. in a rather divided time in our world and country. what i experienced in washington was a period of anti-human flourishing. i felt myself depersonalized and reduced to one aspect of who i was. it was my experience in government the prompt and me to write this book. i left government after one euro of federal service and thought

deeply about what it meant to be human. what is the bare minimum of respect we owe to others by virtue of our shared personhood? what does that look like in practice even in our deeply divided moment that we find ourselves in now? host: i misstated the title of your book, which is the soul of civility: timeless principles to heal society and ourselves. why do you think it is so important to focus on civility, especially at this moment we are in in american politics? >> there is no question this is the most important issue of our day. how do we flourish across deep difference? this is a question of democracy and in the face of the rise of hyper partisanship, political extremism across the political spectrum, as well as the increasing threats of clinical

violence not just in america but around the world. there is no question this is an essential question, yet after i left government, investigating from a global perspective, i explored the notion of civility as conceived across history and across culture. what i recognized is this is actually a timeless question, a timeless problem. the oldest book in the world is a civility book, from ancient egypt. by an advisor to the ancient pharaoh. his maxims on civility in the oldest book in the world are just as relevant today as they were when they were written nearly 4000 years ago. they are things like do not be good to your friends and your family just when you want something. be good to people all the time. do not abuse a power differential. be good to people who can do

nothing for you. do not gossip. it is funny there are these maxims that have stood the test of time and that every generation is to be reminded of these timeless principles of living well with others. i see myself standing on the backs of giants that came before and after, that thought deeply about the timeless principles of human flourishing and i harness the wisdom of that history and deploy it as we are grappling with the question now. host: it feels sometimes, especially in politics, incivility gets for warded more than civility. why do you think that is? guest: it certainly feels that way. people are willing to do and say whatever is necessary to win and are increasingly -- in our increasingly high stakes put chlorine up and while in government, i went on a retreat

and we explored the question of civility -- increasingly high-stakes government. i went on retreat and we store this question civility in government. it was especially reading of dr. martin luther king jr.'s letter from birmingham jail that offered clarity to me about the role of civility in american public life and why the virtue of civility is good for its own sake. dr. king makes an observation about segregation. he says segregation hurts both parties. it hurts the segregated by giving them a false sense of inferiority and hurts the segregate or by giving them a false sense of superiority that deforms the soul. while i was reading this, i realized the same was true about incivility. when people are uncivil to others, they are vicious,

malicious, that obviously hurts the party to whom that poor conduct is directed. that is obviously dehumanizing. what we insufficiently appreciate is it hurts the party using that conduct as well. it is mutually harmful. it makes both parties less human and less humane. yet the inverse is also true. hospitality, which is topical because we are celebrating easter and many of us will go to family dinners today and be surrounded by ones and hospitality, acts of grace and charity and kindness, these are mutually and no bling. they make both parties more human despite certain intra-mental arguments that we need to be willing to be -- to do anything to be to the other side cut hurts the person we want to, that we want to beat, that we have to remember civility is good in and of

itself just by virtue as dr. king taught us of treating the other, with dignity and respect. host: you write that civility is a technique, not a disposition -- not a technique but a disposition. what do you mean by that? guest: this is a core argument of my book. as i learned in my government, there is a distinction between civility and politeness. politeness is manners, etiquette , technique. it is external whereas civility is a disposition of the heart, a way of seeing others as our equals who are worthy of a bare minimum of respect just by virtue of our shared moral status as members of the human community. crucially, sometimes respecting someone, actually loving someone, requires deviating from politeness, actually risking offending someone, telling a

hard truth, engaging in robust debate that today we often feel like we are walking on eggshells. we do not want to unnecessarily offend anyone. but we forget having honest, difficult conversations is a way to respect and to love our fellow human beings and those closest to us. i argue in american public life today, and this is what people have found independently across history and culture, we need less seeming good and nice and respectful and more true civility, actually respecting and loving others even when it risks telling a hard truth and hurting feelings. host: earlier this morning, we have had references to a letter by thomas jefferson about the separation of church and state. you write about another letter exchange that thomas jefferson

had that deals with the topic exactly. guest: are you talking about the exchange between edward cole and jefferson? thank you for asking me that. i do not get a chance often to talk about this unsung hero in american history, who is a -- of the same social class and strata as the founders but a generation after them. he was a neighbor to thomas jefferson and aid in the white house to james madison and while he was in the white house he does something unthinkable. he decides to write to america's most respected statesman and ask him why -- how he can justify owning slaves while being the architect of liberty. he asks jefferson to join him and his fellow abolitionists in

the abolitionist cause. this is one of the only times in history we have direct confrontation. we know the founding sin of america and the foundational hypocrisy in jefferson. he wrote these words for all while owning slaves until he died, even beyond his death. how do you rationalize that? amazingly, jefferson responded. he said, nice to hear from you, thanks for your note. i hear what you're saying. you're right. this is where history is going. abolition will happen at some point. just look at the haitian revolution and what happened. he said, this is just not my fight. this is a battle for younger men , jefferson says. i wish you all the best. my thoughts and prayers are with you, but this is not for me.

thanks and be well. host: so using for -- politeness to deflect from the conversation. guest: he wrote back and argued every excuse jefferson proffered , for example jefferson says he is too old. he responded saying, look at your elder statesman peer benjamin franklin. you have such moral authority and credibility, which goes a long way to this cause. please help us. jefferson never responded after that. coles ended up inheriting a slave his father left him and immediately man emitted him. he inspired a generation of abolitionists, including abraham

lincoln, where lincoln said, thank you for the example you set. it is important to have heroes who embody these values, people who even when it was unpopular, to recognize the equal personhood and moral worth of all human beings, even when it was costly to them. he uprooted his life to a more amenable environment in the midwest, yet he is someone no one knows about. he is not taught in history books and should be. host: you hold him up as an example how you can be civil even when you deeply disagree with someone. guest: and speaking truth to power. he took a lot of personal risk onto himself and calling out the most respected person in america for his inherent hypocrisy, yet you can see that he actually displayed supreme respect for jefferson, saying, i respect you

enough to tell you and are wrong. you can imagine this young intern in the white house shaking his boots while he is putting this letter to jefferson. jefferson could have made it so he could never work in politics again, yet he took that risk. it was worth it to speak that truth because he was convinced of the moral abhorrence of slavery host:. host:i will remind folks our number for democrats is (202) 748-8000. republicans can call at (202) 748-8001. and dependent -- independents on (202) 748-8002. lots of folks will be sitting down today for dinner with family and those conversations, especially in our environment, can be challenging and two things i would like you to address. number one, what does it do to us as a country when it is

considered bad manners to discuss politics in these sort of settings? do you have tips for people to survive their family dinners if they do disagree with folks around the table? guest: on one hand, close family relationships and friendships, these environments of trust and love and affection, these are in theory the best places to have these conversations across deep differences. it is one of the challenges of our current moment, that we lack the basic affection and trust for our fellow citizens to go right to the heart. the culture war is a heated topic and we generalize about someone based on their view on donald trump come on the vaccine come on joe biden. we think because of their view on one thing we know everything there is to know about them. and we lack charity and

curiosity and how we approach them. it is a nonstarter, their view on one issue. and we think there is no more conversation to be had. on one hand, that is an ideal opportunity to have these conversations because of the spaces of love and respect. on the other hand, i argue in my final chapter on misplaced meaning and forgiveness that so many people have made idols out of politics and little issues that as these traditional touchstones of meetings, faith, family, friendship, as these have been on the decline in recent decades, people have increasingly derived their ultimate source of meaning in political issues and public life and there are three symptoms i see that suggest this is the case. one is the way people can go from zero to 60 at the mere mention of a topic. secondarily, the number of

friendships and family relationships that have been severed over political difference. it is heartbreaking. thirdly, politics is everywhere in an unprecedented way. it feels like every decision we make has a political dimension to it, where we live, where we send our kids to school, where we grocery shop. politics has invaded or oversaturated. that is bad for society and for our souls. i mention that because i give everyone permission today at easter to not talk about politics. if someone wants to bring it up, pivot away from it and talk about a shared source of joy and passion because the problem is we are doing the hard conversations on all fronts of our lives and we need a break from that. it is bad for society cut democracy, and our souls. host: we have a, that says, this

guest topic is of great importance. e are positive values that create socialization t produc and friendships form, not enemies and cy -- and hostility. civility is everything and running government, not just federal and state. let's hear from ross in new york. caller: it seems contradictory when you said you have to be civil but sometimes rude to tell people what they need to know, but i want to ask how you keep people from mistaking kindness for weakness and talking over you. sometimes i call talk shows and i hear people talking over the host. jefferson was describing a wall of separation as a metaphor for what is in the constitution, but

you are a fascinating guest. guest: thanks. i will offer clarification about the difference between civility and politeness. politeness is manners, etiquette cut technique, external stuff. civility is internal, a way of seeing others that respects others enough to risk offending them. i love etymology. adam ologies is throughout my book, the story of our language. i think it is awful term member the distinction between these ideas are the latin roots of these ideas words, politeness comes from to soothe or polish. that is what politeness does. it polishes over and sweeps under the rug as opposed to giving us essential tools to grapple with different head on. civility, the etymology is the latin root of our word city,

citizenship, civilization. that is what civility is, the conduct and orientation befitting a citizen in the city and especially in a democracy like our own. disagreement is the lifeblood of democracy. we have to be willing to tell hard truths and have robust dialogue and conversation like what coles initiated with thomas jefferson, risking alienating him by confronting the core epoxy to have honest conversation about the most pressing question of the day, which was slavery and abolition, so that is a point of clarification. thanks for asking that question. your second question was what? host: i lost myself as well. i will ask your producers to remind me while we hear from trent on our independent line. caller: it is easter.

let's go deep. easter is about the life, death, resurrection, ascension of christ. curious stuff. he was not very civil. i know a guy who is not very civil, steve bannon, but he said something i thought -- i do not think people are following trumped because he is the messiah. they are following him because they are on a search for truth. how do you be civil in a culture that is under the paw of such demonic powers and principalities? how do you go back and forth on that? i am 66. ice to get up every morning and say, do i say my prayers or do something else? how do i say my prayers can't

watch c-span, or watch porn on my iphone? we are in a significant new time in history. i think of the famous film. host: let's give alexandra a chance to respond to her question. how do you remain civil when someone's language is not and some of the characters are controversial? guest: i love the question asking about christ. this is easter where many across this country are celebrating the resurrection of christ. this morning, i was reading a this morning, i was reading a sermon dr. martin luther king, jr., gave in 1959 where he recently visited the middle east and calvary was in tears and said christ on the cross was something no one can force him to do, to be obedient to

unenforceable obligations. that is what he said in 1959. i love that and i hold that in my book as a model of civility and not politeness. the caller made the point he was not always polite. he spoke honest truth because he loved and respected them. i hold christ up as a model of civility and not politeness, papering over, condescending to people by not telling hard truths. what i love about the sermon from dr. king is this gets to an essential theme in my book. i have an idea i unpack in my book called obedience to the unenforceable. it is from a speech in the house of commons after world war i by lord walton.

he said democracy in a free society depends on respecting others in ways great and small even when nobody is looking. it depends on obedience to the unenforceable. choosing to love the clerk at the cash register, your uber driver, people you will never see again in micro exchanges countless times a day in the modern, commercial society we live in. and yet democracy in a free and flirting society depends on us recognizing the dignity and humanity of those we will never see again. people who will never do anything for us in return. you cannot have a law to make people feel warm and fuzzy and comfortable. like he was saying about christ, we have an obligation as well to

the stuff that supports a free and flourishing democracy in a society like ours. host: the example of jesus in terms of civility or not, i want to point to matthew 21:12 when jesus went into the temple of god and drove out all of those who bought and sold in the temple and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seat of those who sold doves. he said, it is written my house will be called a house of prayer but you have made it a den of thieves. guest: it is such a great example. there are so many other examples like that in the christian new testament where he says to the pharisees you worship me with your mouth but not your heart. i am paraphrasing a concept from isaiah. that is the distinction between civility and politeness. it is easy to go through the

motions and say the right things. too often, we are content with that. we need to make sure we are not just doing and saying the right things but that we are doing it for the right reasons. that we have a heart in the right place and seek the good and want to respect and love our fellow citizens. host: the question earlier from ross in new york that we can both not quite recall is, how do you keep people from mistaking kindness for weakness? guest: great question. there is only so much you can do. the argument of my book is you can only control yourself. the world wants us to externalize causes and sources aflame -- of blame. they want us to blame elon musk, donald trump, joe biden, what is going on around the world. i argue in my book we cannot change others, that we can only change ourselves. we cannot even control how others perceive us.

we can only know that we are doing the best we can and we are doing it for the right reasons. i talk about this story moving from washington, d.c., to indianapolis. my first friend here came up to me after church one day and said, hi, i am joanna, would you like to porch with us sometime. i had never heard the word porch used as a verb. i went to her home and realized she was stating a quiet revolution against the adam mites, divided, and lonely status quo. she included people across geography to be seen and known and love in the fullness of who they were as human beings. this is also a place where trust and friendship blossomed and flourished.

i want people across the country with porches and without who are doing the same thing. i cannot control how others view me, what others are doing, how they are to using -- choosing to part of the solution or problem, but i can control myself. i'm going to choose to make the world better and more beautiful from right where i am. we can all do the same. it is not about having a porch. it is about what we do with what we have. are our lives to sow civility and respect to transformation ranger into a friend. your little acts that might go unseen and we might never see the diffidence of kindness and compassion, we might never see this side of eternity, the good in the world, but we know we are doing the best we can to be

solutions for the right reason. host: we have a bunch more callers with questions for you. let's hear from stephen in portland, oregon, on the line for republicans. caller: hello, angela. i just have one question about civility. it is a two-way street, right? what happens when one party abuses the other side? what would be the remedy? for example, in portland, during the 2020 george floyd riots and black lives matter, supporters were trying to set fire to the justice center. had they been successful, what would be the aggrieved party's remedy civility? -- civilly? host: go ahead, alexandra. guest: great question. i love history. i am a student of the past.

when you are a student of history, you realize there is nothing new under the sun. history will not perfectly repeat itself but it certainly rhymes. thanks for bringing up the division caused in your country, the brokenness, and that in the wake of the murder of george floyd, because i'm calling in from indianapolis, i love the story of a similar time of discord and racial division in indianapolis. it was on the evening when dr. king was assassinated. robert kennedy was running for president at the time. he was tasked with telling a crowd of african american listeners of the horrible news that dr. king had been murdered. worth noting in history that most -- there was violence. many cities did burn because of the anger about the gross injustice in the wake of dr.

king's murder. and yet, dr. king used the platform he had and the tools at his disposal to sow seeds of light to his audience. he said let this be a moment where we do not worry about whether citizens are black-and-white but he quoted the greek poet and said let us dedicate ourselves to make gentle the savage nature of this world. the crowd really took to heart this message of healing and hope and uplift and went home in peace. indianapolis remarkably was spared in a way other cities across america were not that were rightfully angry about this injustice. i see that is important. he harnessed the wisdom of the past and deployed it. he did not patronize his audience.

he told him a hard truth. and yet, he used his words and civility to sow seeds of healing and trust that resonated with his audience and is an important example to us in history that we can point to as a moment of civility, as a way that our leaders can model healing in the face of injustice, atrocity, deep divisions. host: next, we have michael in north carolina on the line for independents. caller: sorry. good -- good morning. i'm sorry. i have a cold. happy easter. i appreciate you being on today. but i have a problem with this person talking about dr. martin luther king, jr., this person,

alexandra, has not read the letter from the birmingham jail or the book "why we can't wait." please keep martin luther king out of your analysis. it is just not appropriate for us black americans. host: alexandra, i want to take that point to maybe respond to this idea of people who say these calls for civility even in the midst of really harmful rhetoric are really just efforts to stifle hard conversations or suppress necessary change with called for civility or even politeness. guest: thank you. i respectfully disagree with the caller's preposition i should not borrow and learn from and study and recite from the and

leslie was -- endlessly wise dr. king. we also draw from the same intellectual well. i have read many times dr. king's letter from birding him -- birmingham jail where he cites other thinkers of importance to meet. he deployed the great conversations of the past to clarify the problems and possible solutions of the moment print there's a reason i reference him and draw from him throughout my book, especially when it comes to the question of how we respond in the face of injustice. i have a whole chapter in my book on civil disobedience where i talk about dr. king in the context of gandhi before him, frederick douglass, and others, and movements for abolition, and

overthrowing colonial authority. i talk about specifically dr. king's litmus test for when to take action and how. dr. king, for anyone who wanted to be part of his peaceful, nonviolent resistance movement, they had to undergo this process of purification. perfect asian was cultivating how i have conceived this position of civility, respecting others enough to tell the hard truth. it was cultivating basic love and respect for the people they were protesting. that compelled them to protest, engaged in the sit-ins and letter writing campaigns. at the same time it demanded action also took certain conduct off the table.

he never wanted anyone part of the nonviolent resistance movement to engage in violence because human dignity was his litmus test, that we respect people enough to tell hard truths and not degrade them personally, their property, or their character. host:. to queioon x from steve who says intolerance of the differences of the political is more intense than ever with social media. civil war is a daily hashtag. how will your mission and book turn that around? guest: i hope my book is a small part of the solution elevating important stories of people doing big things in a small way every day and how we can too because that is how change begins.

that is the beauty of democracy. the citizen is more important than the leaders who lead us, that we have agency, we have a responsibility. we cannot just leave the question to public leaders. we have to start in our everyday. another example of a person i so admire and respect and learn from who is also a student of dr. king is the jazz musician darrell davis. he is also part of the pro human foundation that i'm thrilled to be on the advisory board of. his story is exceptional. he is a jazz musician, african american, but he says his passion ial reconciliation. for 30 or 40 years, he has befriended, sought out and befriended members of hate groups, of white supremacists organizations and neo-nazis and the kkk and just befriending them, conversing with them, engaging in relationship with

them pretty has converted many away from the bigoted racial views. i understand he might be a guest coming up. i cannot wait to listen to your conversation. darrell is somebody i can listen to for hours pray he is endlessly thoughtful and wise. we hear a lot from people who say, how can i engage with respect towards people who have this horrible view, this anti-human, racist view that is not deserve respect? i would say if darrell can seek out neo-nazis and members of hate groups and have the time of day to be curious about them and their points of view and befriend them, if he can do it, maybe we can too. host: we havxt msage illinois.se lines from john in the concept is ridiculous wh elected representatives can be

bribed legally, thanks to citizens united. is it uncivil to call out them for taking pat money -- pack money? guest: great question print on the one hand, absolutely not. it is the duty of citizenship to hold our political leaders accountable. on the other hand, and dr. king reminds us about this, it is not just whether we hold them accountable but how as well. if we are on the internet venting or going to their office and shouting at them and saying horrible things, we have to remember we are not just hurting the other when we engage in that

rhetoric and conduct. we debase ourselves as well when we treat another human being with insufficient reverence and respect when we debase them. of course, we have a duty to speak truth to power and hold public leaders accountable. as dr. king showed us, there is a way to do it that is also respectful of the other and affirms and protects and cultivates our own humanity and dignity as human beings as well. host: a couple more calls before we have to let you go. jay is in indiana on the line for independents. caller: thanks very much for taking my call. i am interested in your affiliation with the aspen institute. it is my understanding that is a group of economists and very well heeled.

my question has to do with credibility. i don't think anyone can argue with anything you have said so far about your, but i do find incivility has been rewarded in the last eight years. my question to you is, who did you support for president in 2016 and 2020? i would like to hear from you. i will wait for your answer. guest: thank you for that question. i think it is really interesting how we do go to these questions, give me your opinion on this one person, this one issue, this one election. i'm going to let your views on one thing determined for me whether i am going to take anything you have to say seriously. that is such a problem. that is so centralizing of the

human person and spirit. we live in this era of strange litmus tests, strange perfectionism. we engage in small conversation in cocktail hours. if they do not respond with a sufficient response, we do not engage with them. i have a concept in my group called unbundling people. it is a mental framework. how do we set apart the view we hate, the air is adjustable dignity and work of the human being? too often, we take one mistake someone has made of them at their worst moment captured on video and it is strewn all over the internet and they are fired and publicly shamed and maligned because they have been caught on camera at their worst moment or

week rehash something they have done 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or we take out of context something they have said or done as opposed to seeing the objectionable thing in light of the dignity and worth of the human being. i think we need to outgrow this strange perfectionism we centralize and reduce others based on one aspect of who they are and say because of this one thing they have said or done, they have nothing to teach me. there is always something we can learn from every person and in every situation. we have lost the appreciation of the dignity of the human person and the value of curiosity and what others can teach us even across differences. host: the last caller. sharon is in minnesota on the line for democrats. caller: good morning, kimberly. happy easter to both of you ladies and thanks for the conversation.

i am grappling with this and trying to understand. i live across the street. i have a couple of babers down the road that fly proudly the rebel confederate flag and that is very upsetting. i was a teacher furthered years of desk for 30 years at the middle school level. we preached no bullying. we also had posters and sessions about being a bystander. we all know donald trump is a racist. but i'm smart enough to know that not all of his supporters are racist. however, if you support the racist, what is the difference? how am i supposed to get past that? i do not want to have dinner with a racist. i do not want to have dinner with someone who supports a sexual assaulter. i do not understand how we are supposed to get past this.

guest: i will just bring up my friend and someone i infinitely expect and admire, daryl davis, one more time. i hope when he is a guest on the show at some point, you are able to call him and jewish people and indie semites the less anti-semites -- anti-semites who seek to dispel horrible notions about jewish people. this is what darryl does with his life. he has found often people have abhorrent views about african american people, people part of hate groups and neo-nazi groups, he befriends them and what he discovers as an african american man and jazz musician is they have never sat down and had an encounter with an african american person before. they have these wild notions,

wild racist notions he is able to refute with an in-person experience with them in friendship showing them they have more income and as human beings and citizens of america than what differentiates them. my message for our questionnaire is if darryl can sit down with a white supremacist, someone who hates him, maybe we can sit down with people who support people we disagree with or even hold views that we disagree with. instead of going in blazing thinking we know every thing there is to know about someone because they have one view on issue, maybe go in with curiosity. we are each infinitely complex as human beings. we come to our views of the world for many different reasons, each of us. if we approach others saying, tell me why you view the world this way, tell me the story

behind this view, and going with curiosity and not with a certainty that is too pervasive in our world today, a little bit of curiosity can go a long way towards friendship and also to healing these deep divides that unquestionably are unprecedented in this moment. host: alexandra hudson and her book is "he soul of civility: timeless principles to heal society and ourselves." thank you so much for sharing your time and expertise. thank you for having me. i am privileged to be with you. happy easter, everyone. host: alexandra mentioned several times daryl davis. he will be on "washington journal" tomorrow at 9:15 eastern. if you want to hear from him or ask questions related to what we discussed today, he will be on tomorrow. later today, we will hear from alexander heffner whose series

focuses on fostering political unity. he will be on to discuss the current state of our nation's politics. next, open forum. the numbers are on your screen. you can start dialing and now. we will be right back. ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. the president of the center for urban renewal and education shares her book. it highlights organizations reports on the advancements black areas have made an areas where work still needs to be done. then, get why the professor argues technology is harming the social development and mental health of children in his book, "the anxious generation."

he is interviewed by emily weinstein. watch every weekend on c-span2 and watch anytime online at boo ktv.org. >> ♪ >> celebrating the 20th anniversary of our annual documentary competition, this year, c-span asks middle and high school students across the country to look forward while considering the past. participants were given the option to look 20 years into the future or into the past. in response, we received inspiring and thought-provoking documentaries from over 3200 students. our top award goes to nate coleman and jonah, 10th graders in connecticut. the compelling documentary is about navigating past and future conflict with iran.

>> the u.s. must place restrictions on all americans traveling to iran. united states will no longer have to participate in such negotiations with iran. >> congratulations to the winners. the winning documentaries air throughout the day beginning april 1. you can watch each of the award-winning studentcam films anytime online. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are in open forum. you can call in with your thoughts on politics or any other affairs you would like to discuss. i will start over the comment from the presegment where we were discussing civility. joan in minnesota says i love talking politics but will not do hen it is offensive to others. i value my friendships more than

disagreeing. i love hearing different opinions but some do not, so we need to inspect others. a great way to start us off in this segment. we will hear from ed in philadelphia on the line from republicans. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: good morning. caller: all right. i have a couple of different feelings about this. i find it unfortunate that people i agree with generally politically seem to be consumed with conspiracy theories and the [indiscernible] of people who are vulnerable and we are consumed with trying to find middle ground with people who refuse to offer a sick respect -- basic respect. today is easter. many people i agree with go to

church this morning. i myself just came home. the caller in the last segment was onto something. it is impossible to find no ground with someone who refuses to respect the basic humanity of others. there are many people on the line right now that are vulnerable. i think the most christlike behavior imaginable would be to extend two people threatened by the policies of the modern republican party humanity in our support. host: thank you. next, we have josh in vanessa's, virginia. -- in manassas, virginia, on the independent line. what is your comment? caller: i find it unfortunate that of all days, on easter sunday, it is more racially based politics.

it is preached day in and day out, racism, racism. it is dividing us all. it is disgusting. that is all i have got. host: where are you hearing it? caller: everyday on c-span, all the news, republican, democrat. it is divide and conquer every day. it is leaving our children behind i think. host: thanks for your call, josh. susan is an amherst, ohio, on the line for democrats. good morning. what is your comment? caller: i was wondering why all of those brilliant minds in congress, senate, congress, and the white house, cannot figure out, close the border down, get caught up with the people here, get them all taken care of. in the meantime, these brilliant minds should be able to come up with a decent plan to let these people come in legally and

process them quickly. host: ok. thank you, susan. christine is on the line for republicans pray good morning -- for republicans. good morning. caller: i'm not really talking about politics but i kind of am. i'm wondering if the weather has been the way it is lately because of what man has done to the sky and the air. i don't know much about any of this. but cutting the trees down and not replacing them, letting those things fly around in the sky to take pictures and different things like that, not recycling and things like that. i just wonder why the air outside and the skies and everything in it now are as weird as it is. host: thank you, christina. i will go to an article from

nasa, actually, from nasa's website on the causes of climate change in particular. human activities are driving the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century. it says the greenhouse effect is essential to life on earth but human made emissions are throwing heat loss into space. the greenhouse gases include methane and water vapor. while the sun has played a role in past climate changes, the current warming cannot be explained by the sun. other research and scientists have argued the extremes in weather we see these days is due to human caused climate change. next, new orleans on the line

for independents. caller: good morning. we talked about the religion in public life. but even the census is in the bible, when it took the number of people in israel and things of that nature. the census played a role in the bible as we know it. and yet, in the united states, our senses have been disregarded in this respect. there is the american community survey and the american consumer expenditure survey which is part of the u.s. census which happens every 10 years. but the american community survey and the consumer expenditure survey happens every year and every half decade. it utilizes data to address the issues of housing, employment, education, every part of human life and respect that it

acknowledges us as people and our needs on a human level, not on a religious level. too many people want to say religion serves a purpose. but religion is part of a techonomy -- dichotomy, a basket of issues that addresses human needs. as jesus said, when i was hungry, you fed me. he also teaches us, if you teach a man to fish, you fade him for a lifetime. that all falls under the census that the government will be on his shoulders. we at religion as a way of oft resizing, demonizing, and not addressing the issues of human needs and desire to contribute to society and the betterment of it. host: thank you. let's hear from jerome in lancaster, california. caller: thank you. with all of the fighting and

misinformation created in our society, partly based and due to news organizations on the internet that have become subdivided and partisan, i think if we create a platform for people to communicate in a nonpartisan way and create an independent internet through the post office, everyone could have a platform to speak on. politicians would be required to disseminate the platforms and not hate speech and religious or all of this anxiety. i'm sorry. we create a platform that is equal for everyone. host: thank you, jerome. once again, our numbers, for

democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. other news we are following regarding the bridge collapse in maryland, the governor announced starting yesterday, portions of the francis scott key bridge will be cut up and removed saying doing so will eventually allow for the port to be partially reopened for the benefit of the nation's economy. your are some of those statements. [video clip] >> this point, unified command assured me the hull is damaged but intact. the army corps and their partners will begin to move forward with the crane operations today. the north sections of the key bridge will be cut up and removed. this will eventually allow us to open up a temporary restricted channel that will help us get more vessels in the water around

the site of the collapse. our friends have agreed to help us with the process wreckage from salvaging into the team, i want to say thank you again for stepping up. this is going to take time to clear this section of the collapse. it is not going to take hours, it is not going to take days. but once we complete this phase of the work, we can move more tugs and barges and boats into the area to accelerate recovery. as of yesterday, 377 people were actively engaged in response operations in support of unified command. we will continue to marshal people and resources to ensure we have everything we need to do the work as safely, efficiently, and effectively as possible. i have said this before, i will

say it again, and i will continue to say this. this is not just about maryland. this is about our nation's economy. the port handles more farm equipment than any other ports inside this country. at least 8000 workers on the docks have jobs directly affected by the collapse. our economy depends on the port of baltimore and the port of baltimore depends on vessel traffic. maryland's economy and maryland workers rely on us to move quickly. it is not just maryland being impacted. i'm also talking about the farmer in kentucky. i'm also talking about the autoworker in ohio. i'm talking about the restaurant owner in tennessee. this is impacting all of us. the nation's economy and workers are relying on us to move

quickly and move together. host: bacteria calls now, joel is in longmont -- back to your calls now, joel is in longmont, colorado. good morning. caller: good morning. i was born in mexico. i became an american citizen about 35 years ago. i am a little nervous. host: that is ok. caller: lately, i have been noticing all of the changes happening. i have been trying to learn. i am a truck driver. i do not like whatever is happening in washington right now with all of this stuff about fossil fuels. i do not like about all of the migration stuff. i was born and raised in mexico. i can agree with whatever is

happening because it took me more than 10 years to learn the american way. i know whatever is happening right now is going to transform our country. i call it my country because i came here when it was the way it used to be, not the way it will be. i wanted to make that comment. i do not understand how people cannot see what i seek. you know what i mean? host: thanks for your call. ben is on the line for independents. caller: good morning, kimberly. i have been looking through your social media outlets. i do not know if you have anything on social media. i would like to follow you. i want to talk about as far as the situation with the bridge, i know there is a lot of discussion on the local affiliates in baltimore how the impact of this bridge, the

francis scott key bridge, and now it has become politicized in reference to how the country will move forward as it relates to repairing the bridge and the impact it has on the economy. it is such a sad state we are in that someone could even politicize something of that nature. we know baltimore and maryland is strongly democratic. i do not see how people cannot see further than their eyes to know this is an impact on everyone throughout the nation. not just baltimore. some of these persons who take these hard political positions on things think they are hampering the baltimore economy or doing something to hurt the baltimore economy. they are really hurting themselves and the rest of the

country because this is a vital point of entrance into this country for all types of goods and services. host: let me share some more information from some local affiliates in baltimore. this is from wbaltv.com, talking about the crane coming in that can lift up to 1000 tons, one of at least two that will be used to clear the channel of the metal and concrete remains of the fallen bridge and cargo ship. the u.s. navy will supply four heavy lift cranes with tugs, salvage books, and navy vessels. he warned of a long road to recovery but said he was grateful to the biden administration for approving $60 million in immediate aid. president biden has said the federal government will pay the full cost of rebuilding the bridge. and so, now, let's hear from

jane in new york city on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. happy easter to everybody who celebrates. i want to make two points. as americans, we need to get educated about what is happening internationally. the immigration issue is not just here from south america into the united states on our southern border. europe is dealing with it. a lot of people in africa and the middle east, immigrants are coming to all of the european nations. people are drowning in the english channel. we are not the only ones suffering from this problem. the second thing i want to say is i am 63 years old. i live in queens, not far from where donald trump anti-trump family grew up. we know all about donald trump's

father who got a contract with city housing for low income individuals and rented it out to all upper-class tenants. that is how he started making his money. i have also seen donald trump bankrupt every company has had from the casinos to trump university which i almost signed up for that never got accredited by the state to be an educational institution. every endeavor he has initiated has failed in bankruptcy. that is why we have been able to hold him accountable here in new york. host: thank you for your call. let's hear from heidi in brooklyn, new york, on the line for democrats. good morning, heidi. caller: hello.

thank you, c-span. happy easter to everyone. i would like to make one point. i am so horrified by the atrocious behavior of candidate trump. i do not understand why we cannot get him to trial so the can actually see the evidence of him trying to steal an election. but even more than that, i remind republican voters, when you go to vote, you will be voting against social security, medicare, and health care, because that is what the republicans are about. so, when you go to vote for republicans, no matter what your reasoning is, you are voting against your own social security and stability in your elder life . thank you very much. host: that is all the time we have for open forum today.

next, we will hear from alexander heffner whose television series focuses on fostering political unity. he will be on to discuss the current state of our nation's politics. that is coming right up. we will be right back. ♪ >> dr. blackstock, her twin sister, and their mother are all graduates of harvard medical school, making them first black mother-daughter graduates of the program. tonight, dr. blackstock shares her book which looks at racism and other issues she sees facing black doctors and patients today. >> when we look at the statistics, for example, myself as a black woman with a harvard degree undergrad and medical school, i'm still five times more likely to die of pregnancy related complications.

why would that happen? right? why is this happening in 2024? because our health care system, our health professionals, are still not adequately trained to care for a diverse patient population. our patients are dying. i feel like this is politicizing a crisis that does not need to be politicized. we have the statistics and numbers that show that we could be caring for our patients, especially our black patients, in a more competent way. that is a matter of life and death. >> dr. blackstock with her book "legacy," tonight at 8:00 eastern on q&a. you can listen to all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates

45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government. taking to where policy is debated and decided all with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by alexander heffner, hosting the show "breaking bread" on bloomberg and also host of "the open mind." welcome to the program. let's talk about "breaking bread" in particular. tell us about the show and how it attempts to find ways to unite people. guest: the genesis of the idea is that we have reality tv hardware from cable culture to x

or twitter. i always thought of you quote the amazing race" --" the amazing race" is a program aiming to bring together contestants to ambitiously achieve some kind of challenge that required mental and physical and intellectual stamina. in a more modest way, i thought it was important to bring together governors and senators from both parties to engage in some of their favorite activities in their home states and to have a meal. and that could be a secret sauce to achieving some greater understanding, bridge building, consensus-forging. we have not climbed any mountains yet on "breaking bread," but as we anticipate season two's release this summer, the focus from the

governors and the centers -- senators, the focus is on our common civic values, virtues. too often in american political life, the vindictiveness, the vendettas, the vitriol, is what incentivizes attention. we live in a digital attention economy where you do not even have 140 characters but you might have a word or two to articulate or convey a point. in the american political theater, in our heritage, when we have been successful, we have lived by more than a tweet or x post. we have lived by a substantive engagement in the ideas and the idea that we can be empowered in our democracy.

so, it has always been a dream, kimberly, to see c-span every morning on "washington journal." yourself, the whole gang, focus on the issues of greatest importance to the american people and to give them a voice. and in developing this program, "breaking bread," we probed all of these constituencies from georgia to alaska to arizona, and it is heartwarming and heartening to engage in that conversation. but that is not all it takes. i hope one day a television platform or some kind of new media platform will embrace this idea of an amazing race, not only to lift our nation's morale but to a legislative outcome. many of your callers each morning talk about immigration as a challenge, as a crisis.

i think both parties agree on that. they agree there are things flagrantly, egregiously wrong with the system. not only the deprivation of american jobs and human rights but the functionality of our economy and our goodwill as neighbor's depends on fixing this problem. i always thought the late senator mccain and retired senator leahy from arizona and vermont were the kind of people with the moral fiber and courage to get up every morning with their dog, cat, "washington post," and "washington journal" and fix the problem. i hope we can extrapolate even from the "breaking bread" model to not only deliberate in our democracy but to fix the problem. host: for people who have not seen the show yet, can you walk through what it looks like in the activities they are doing beyond eating? guest: sure.

heating is an important one -- eating is an important one because it is soulful. it engages a universal language. as president kennedy said, we breathe the same air. we do not have the same culinary preferences all together, but a lot of us see the enjoyment of chicken and waffles, whether they are vegan which we did with senator booker in season one, or the real mccoy, actual chicken and waffles with senator warnock coming up soon, food is essential. sometimes, we begin with an activity like hiking or birding. sometimes, we began with a meal. often, i'm going to the hometown community of the elected representative, or, for example, something they are passionate about in the public policy realm. senator murkowski of alaska invited me to the hot springs,

to a renewable energy fair. you think of alaska not as synonymous with renewable or green and conservation stewardship. you often think of it in the mainstream media as synonymous with the pursuit of drilling or oil and gas. in this case, it confounded a stereotype about what folks are concerned about were interested in -- or interested in in alaska. go ahead. host: i wanted to ask you, in this election year, you are trying to bring together people. you are heading into your second season. how would you assess the current level of civility in the country right now when it comes to politics? guest: two of my favorite guests from season two, they all accept the invitation because they believe in the proposition of understanding and tolerance across geography.

we think of racial tolerance. we think of religious tolerance on a holy day, tomorrow, too. we think of the intergenerational tolerance. we don't want to be a just against the gen z folks or the older guard. often, we forget geographic unity is what has preserved federalism. it is what has preserved liberty across states, now 50 of them. if you talk to governor moore or governor gordon of maryland and wyoming, and you watch those episodes later this year, you will see whether it is at orioles game with governor moore or at the historic occidental hotel in buffalo, wyoming, you see a unity of purpose which is serving the public. you asked about the state of partisanship. we know from the depictions of

political parties and candidates that there is a toxicity in the air. but the vast majority of americans do not endorse that toxicity. they want to be problem solvers. that is the critical thing to always remember. it is disheartening whenever i am on c-span and i see, only on twitter, not in conversation with you, before i even appear, there is a left and right, and you must get it too on your ex handle, before the show even begins, the armies have been enlisted, whether bots or t rolls, to feed into a system. that is not what "washington journal" or c-span is about. it is about the opposite. it is about representing our better values and interests. i will give you a concrete example. we are approaching tax day. we are in tax season.

this country was founded on the proposition of taxation with representation. something that unites the c-span callers i presume, except maybe some of the anarchists that call in, but the vast majority, 95 percent, maybe 99% of people want to believe their tax dollars are going to represent their neighbors, their family, their children, their school districts, their law enforcement, that is what is intended to preserve the quality of air and water so we are not breathing in or drink and carcinogens. it is going to school teachers, resources for parents. host: ok. guest: the point i am making is that we file our taxes each year without the fanfare of any kind of patriotism. we do not put a sticker on either badge of honor. we are almost repulsed and

dishonored by the practice that is the most universal active our citizenship more so than voting. i have yet to see a political scientist or any caller disagree with this basic premise. and yet, why are we not tracking those expenditures? why are we not demanding from our government, is a two-way street, acknowledgment of our role in serving the public good? if it was only as easy as accessing an amazon product to understand the municipal, state, and federal moneys and how they are being invested, whether they are going to foreign policy investments overseas and the stability of the world, but we do not seek that out. we do not demand that. if we do not start practicing participatory budgeting and democracy, we will lose it. we will lose access to our own wallace and franchise in the

process. host: you have mentioned a couple of times the interview with senator cory booker. guest: yes, from the first season. host: i want to play a clip of that. [video clip] >> who is from oklahoma. i went to his office for bible study. i did not expect to see him in an embrace with an african american little girl. i'm like, chairman, who dat? that is my granddaughter, a family member of his. he explains his family adopted this girl from a very difficult circumstance. i was moved by that. months later, there is a big bill. there was no amendment, it was a clean bill. i walked into the well of the senate and said, mr. chairman, i have an amendment for the b bile said let's talk about it. i walked back, sat in my seat

and i look up and he is marching towards me and he kind of grunts amiga and says i'm in. the next thing you know, we get chuck grassley and some other republicans and out is the law of the land. host: how often do you find that willingness to work with the political opposite among the politicians you see that you have interviewed? guest: there are many stories recollected and illuminated in "breaking bread." you heard reference to that. senator booker is an advocate of baby -- baby bonds incentivizing a culture of thoughtful parenting and supportive parenting. you hear it often when it comes to crises, whether it is child poverty, homelessness, or our greatest responsibility, to protect the do must exceed your

of this country -- the domestic security of this country. after 9/11, we rallied together to fight terrorists and terrorism and to preserve domestic tranquility. when the stakes are high, i think it is important to acknowledge people come together. republicans came together with a lot of democrats after the violation of the capitol building, the trespassing that occurred and there was an acknowledgment among both parties that the transfer of powerless -- of power in this country had been violated and that there had not been the peaceful transfer of power that this country has embraced, and so there are many examples of public policy innovations that governors or senators may partner on and you may have

heard kimberly of the disagree better campaign and i'm sure you have interviewed the governor of utah or colorado or some of their allies. you cannot sustain a republic by disagreeing better. that is a fundamental point, especially if you see the trajectory of the country shifting from small r republicanism or small d democratism. not the parties but shifting from republicanism or democracy to authoritarianism. the more we find ourselves in ideological silos, the more likely it is that we will not only erode but demolish the goodwill that enables compromise , not on an individual microlevel but on the holistic macro level and that is deeply concerning. host: we have people calling in

for you, but for folks to know, if you have a question, (202)-748-8000 is the number for democrats. (202)-748-8001 for republicans. (202)-748-8002 for independents. you've been talking a lot about speaking across these differences and trying to find common ground. recently supreme court justice sotomayor and amy coney barrett have been speaking out about this as well, about the need for civility in politics. i'm going to play a clip of them and then ask for what you think of their assessment. [video clip] >> when there is discord within one of those branches or without it or between them, that system is going to show cracks and eventually it can fail and the failing starts with small things that move to large things.

when we don't have a functioning executive for example, you will likely see the legislative branch stepping in. if we don't have a functional legislative branch, you are attempting the executive to take more responsibility. similarly, you challenge the court because of the other two branches are not stepping up to their obligations, the court will solve problems that it really shouldn't. all of these present dangers to the society. >> i think institutions are responsive to the people and one thing that institutions have lost a sense of is that we are a pluralistic society. they lost a sense of the ability to compromise which is hardwired into the constitution. it takes compromise to pass legislation. i feel like maybe in this era of

polarization, that ability to compromise is being lost and institutions reflect back some things that are present in the citizenry themselves, and so i think that is true of our docket. if you want to know what is going on in america, look at our docket and you can see some of the battles that are being waged , often reflective of battles being waged in the society at large. if we demand of our institutions, compromise, but if we started to calm prompt -- a campaign for compromise and for kindness, those of the things we want to see. host: alexander heffner, your thoughts on that assessment? guest: the justices, with all due respect, have to start practicing what they preach.

i have immense respect for every institution of american civic life. the architecture, the brilliance to be able to sustain us who are decades, now centuries, but the supreme court of the united states, now like congress is viewed distributable he -- dystrophy doubly -- disreputably. it is not an institution we are able to remind -- to admire because it is not demonstrated to the american people, the aptitude for that compromise that justice coney barrett articulates. i'm not saying every decision has to be unanimous but on the hot button issues when you have constantly 5-4 divisions --

decisions and divisive opinions or dissents being composed, that is not part of the building blocks of a pluralistic democracy. i think the supreme court has violated the most essential rule, not only of democracy but of civil society which is intellectual honesty. i think with respect to the shadow docket that has been written about often, with respect to hot button polarizing subjects that the court tackles, they are not behaving necessarily as an independent arbiter, as that umpire that chief justice roberts described in his confirmation hearing. as long as there is the

perception of intellectual dishonesty and inconsistency and a feeling of hubris, imperious nests around the court and the judiciary, things are not going to change. host: we have lots of folks waiting to ask questions but very quickly, i want to get your take on this survey that came out last year from the american bar association, talking about civility in the united states. it says civility is vanishing and people blame it on the media specifically. 85% saying that civility today is worse than it was 10 years ago. 29% blame social media, 24% blame the media more generally. 19% blame public officials and with all of these different numbers, i wonder what you think of that. who is to blame for the situation with civility? guest: let's think of the word

civility. it derives from civilization. we want to embrace advance, perpetuate civil society. whether you want to call it civil society or civilization. i think social media and social media tycoons that basically set up these ideologically rigid platforms of groupthink take a lot of responsibility for this and have not accounted for their irresponsibility, going back to 2016, and the fact that unknown entities contributed to american political parties and candidates and got away with impunity. the media has always been scapegoated. we know that but you are not scapegoating your local congressperson in the zip code where you live and you are not scapegoating the media with which you have sympathy, if you

watch fox news or msnbc, or you think another media platform tells it as it is. that is not fair, because the most fundamental obstacle to civil society is having a functioning economy and functioning democracy. i would not identify those factors as precipitating the deterioration of civility. there is something to be said for disharmony, dysfunction in our social lives, and also from the perspective of the economy. cannibal capitalism has eaten out the core of what was the middle-class and republicans and democrats, conservatives and liberals agree on that proposition. it was one of the defining themes of the 2016 provincial election with then president obama and senator sanders being

the most popular figures to be running and representing a critique of cannibal capitalism even if it was coming from a cannibal capitalist himself. host: i do want to get to some of these callers. kristin in pennsylvania on our democratic line. go ahead. caller: good morning. thanks so much for taking our call. happy sunday. i just wanted -- i had a comment for alexander. i really appreciate his mission to get politicians together in an effort for them to see more eye to eye. i really think the politicians need to sit down and break down with marginalized groups they don't understand and are making policies for. i think if you got donald trump to sit down with people who are interested in immigrating to

this country, maybe he would change his ideas a little bit. host: what do you think about having those conversations in that way, with people who are actually affected by policy and politicians? guest: again, an idealist, i appreciate the comment. what needs to be pumped into our bloodstream is very much that focus, on understanding the diversity of marginalized communities, not thinking of it as singularly by race or religion or gender, sexual orientation. but the heart of the matter. there was a caller in between this and your last segment, the truck driver who talked about assimilating and acclimating to the american way and not liking what he heard about environmental policy being a threat to his job and having

lived in his truck presumably for years if not decades. in the same way, senator warren or president biden ought to listen to concerns about environmental policy that is perceived to be a threat to the livelihood of individuals who have taken on some of the most brutal and dehumanizing jobs. host: on our text message line, we heard from michelle in illinois ws civility and respect go hand-in-hand. when you lvility, you loud, you air grievances or hold gravid -- hold grudges. when you remove civility lose respect and chaos ensues. current politics is chaos. does "breaking bread" want to give r the extremists on

the right? these people seem to want and thrive on chaos. guest: extremism and radicalism have been interpreted as vices and when they are directed towards malicious outcomes, they certainly are vices. what is a radical or counterintuitive or unprecedented dare today is to be a servant of bipartisanship, to carry on and champion causes that are greater than one's party or one's self, as the late senator mccain said often. we don't give voice to the toxicity of partisan politics. that is not how we measure our success with the programming that i do, whether it is the open line on pbs or "breaking bread>" -- "breaking bread."

it is important to establish that taking steps toward the normalization of our rhetoric, that is now radical, that is an unusual venture to pursue and as the previous caller said, it is worth every penny, worth every attempt to get to that table. let me just add because there are bipartisan movements manifesting as potentially third-party candidacies or candidates or tickets, be careful what you wish for, understand what is motivating a campaign because you don't want to simply maneuver or change the egos around a dysfunctional table. you want to correct the dysfunction at the table. who is prepared to do that? that is the question we must answer as americans. host: a similar question from mike in illinois. if one party is far right and one party is far left, do we really want them to compromise and make laws? guest: historically they have

been able to work together to forge compromise and consensus. we have a congress now where one party sees a deficit or intervention of social programs whether it is preservation of the social security trust or investments in daycare, and sees them as a net negative. maybe looking towards the fact that we are in the red right now. we were not in the red in the 1990's. we were in the green coming out of president clinton's administration. there were the beginnings of this same toxicity. what is the source of this duopoly stick proclivity and reality in american life? who is governing us and who is -- it is problematic if the

duopoly is essentially paralyzed to do anything to do this -- to do the -- anything positive. we had representation in this country. go read the last great senate, where there was alignment in values sufficient to move us forward in furthering human rights, furthering fiscal safety, furthering a base level of safety net to protect vulnerable populations. not so much now because it is all about political hay. there was a story in the last 48 hours about how senior-level staffers on the hill are imminently preparing to resign. there has been a big crush of resignations over these past sessions of congress, from serious states people who came to the hill to forge consensus,

and we often say to each other on television and in our private lives, why aren't the people who are really dedicated to life, liberty and happiness for all of us and want to do everything in their power to forge those alliances to make that happen, why aren't they in the process? it's about the people, not the party. we need to embrace those voices that are going to advance humane policies. host: next up is mike in ohio on our line for independents. caller: thank you for c-span, and happy easter to everyone who was watching, who celebrates the holiday. i just have a comment for the hostess. people call into this show and they say that we live in a republic and not a democracy. they need to be asked, how long

have those terms been incompatible? you can be catholic and a christian, but just because you are christian does not mean you are catholic. we are fighting over -- it is ridiculous. we are a constitutional republic whose constitution is based upon the principles of representative democracy. you have to use both words to define our government, republic and democracy. i used to be a poll worker. i retired during the 2020 covid. i may go back later on but i haven't met one poll worker that i would not trust with my life. every poll worker i've met is the enemy of patriotism and shame on anyone who accuses them about absolute proof that they tried to cheat. we are your -- we are a republic and a democracy. guest: thank you, for your

service, for your comment. it deserves recognition, at a moment of cowardice in our country, at a moment of an ill-informed republic and democracy that cannot stand up to those principles and embrace what you are saying. again, intellectual honesty has to be the golden rule, and you said it. without any denomination. we are an interfaith pluralistic country and society. we can celebrate easter, we can celebrate passover, we can celebrate christmas and hanukkah. we can celebrate republicanism and democracy. what is wrong with us that we are incapable of having two thoughts at the same time that are connected? i just want to totally embrace your contribution to our civic life. i hope you get back out there is a poll worker. i hope you teach civic education

at the local high school because what you are saying is imperative and if you are going to be an american hero today, it's important that you understand context and nuance, and never underestimate the intelligence of your fellow citizen. if you do that, it is the first step to a despondent regime. if you underestimate the intelligence of your neighbor, of the american people, you have to at least idealistically hope for the best and then work towards cultivating that, those centers of knowledge. we are a republic and a democracy. host: i did find that report you are referencing from the washington post which says half of senior staffers in congress are so fed up that they may quit. capitol hill aides were worried that lawmakers have increased their bombast so much that it makes it harder for them to do their jobs. this is on march 30.

only about one in five senior aides on capitol hill believe that congress is functioning as a democratic legislature should and at the same margin believes it is an effective forum for debate on key issues. this was an investigation of the congressional management foundation, a nonprofit that seeks to improve oath maker effectiveness and constituent engagement. let's hear from elizabeth in san diego on our line for democrats. caller: good morning c-span. i would just like to say that, i myself and most americans believe in civil discourse. it has been the foundation of a wonderful experiment with democracy. i will have to say that the boat has a leak in it. it is now all hands on deck.

when trump came down the escalator, i was in a group and we were dedicated to civil discourse but those times are over. we have one party and they are not dedicated to the prospect of fairness and truth. you have a candidate for office, a presidential candidate who is out there threatening judges and their families, and we are in a different world. it is all hands on deck right now to save our democracy. host: let's let alexander respond to that idea. guest: you do have to look at the evolution and devolution in american history. the democratic party is not the same party that it was in 1950 or earlier.

your point may be true about particular people, but i don't think it's going to serve the interest of the continuity of that democratic expression, if we scapegoat and pigeonhole to the point that we are excluding a whole political party or geography from the pursuit of civil discourse and i would add the leaking of the boat, if you will, your analogy here, is the result of not recognizing the vast civic creed that we inherited from our forefathers and mothers that involved civil disobedience and bus boycotts. there is a movement now to boycott social media and apps that are causing harm to our young people, and are precluding

the kind of deliberation and exchange and positive experiences that we had working together. you can't look at this moment without acknowledging the history and the fact that its contours have constantly been reshaped by the people who have animated and informed the democratic party. did we think that in 1950 or the early 1900s or late 1800s that the democratic party would be the party that would nominate and elect the first nonwhite candidate to the presidency? no. we never would have conceived of that possibility. if you're going to criticize individuals, whether it is president trump or his allies, who denied the integrity of the election results, who denied facts, then speak that truth to

power, but that is not consistent with republican liz cheney's take on the events of the insurrection and the trespassing on capitol hill, probably not consistent with the takes of some of those senior-level staffers or representatives. host: mike in illinois says when trying to heal and move forward from civility and division, should the same culprits who are causing the divide be in charge of fixing it, the same politicians clawing back money after the covid debacle? guest: that is a fair point. no, i think it has to be fresh blood. that is the only way it is going to work. there were figures in our lineage, in our republic's history and democracy. i mentioned senator mccain and senator lahey, who i think had the fortitude and if afforded

the platform by their leadership, caucus leadership, the media, new social innovations, there could have been salvation. we could have salvaged these previous periods. i echo the sentiment of the caller or text messager that you shared, no. that is why he and each passing congress in recent years, there have been fresh voices that have come out of the victims of the parkland massacre in florida and survivors and allies of those survivors. i think that is what we have to embrace, not partisan politics but the voices in all of these zip codes and varying parts of the country, rural, urban, suburban that do want to fix problems and that will model the leadership and discourse to inform those solutions, and it

is never easy but those people do exist. host: last caller for the segment for today, we will hear from rebecca in florida on our line for independents. caller: hello. i just wanted to say, sometimes when people disagree in the congress, it is better to go in front of the speaker individually instead of out in front of everyone so there is no bias or arguments, so everyone has a private opinion or private vote and at the end, you know how many democrats or republicans but if they just say it in front of everyone, then it breaks down to fighting and nothing gets resolved. sometimes it is better to go individually. that is my point when it comes to issues with congress and holding people accountable. it is a major issue when the laws are being changed by obama

and the house has agreed and passed it and the senate has agreed and passed it like the propaganda in 2012. i would like to see when that was passed by the congress. host: let's go ahead and give alexander a chance to respond and share his final thoughts. guest: thank you for curating those questions and thanks to you and your team who performed this public service every morning. i think the point is well taken that diplomacy operates privately before it operates publicly. we have to understand that the fundraising game in congress has debilitated the institution so that those backyard barbecues, cohabitation in washington, d.c. has not existed in the same way, thanks to modern transport, the demands of fundraising and now the demands of social platforms.

we have to change things and if that means a commitment of a delegation, not simply a problem solver's caucus in theory but in practice, living that life of legislating and bringing those experiences to each other in a private context, not live, filmed or recorded on c-span but first as a human exchange between people and families, let's do that, let's invest every effort we can in doing that. host: alexander heffner, the host of "breaking bread," with bloomberg and also the host of pbs's "the open mind." thank you so much for joining us. guest: thank you. host: thanks to everyone who called or texted or posted on social media. we will be back tomorrow with another session of "washington journal." thank you so much and have a wonderful day.

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from oakland, california, this is about one hour and 10 minutes. >> the brilliant, the beautiful, the hilarious, cheryl hines.