♪ host: good morning, it is monday, april 1. election 2024 is seven months away with a likely biden-trump rematch. both at this point are showing a close race with voters most concerned about an elation, crime and immigration.

this morning, we'd like to know what your top election issue is this year. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. include your first name and your city and state. we are on social media at facebook.com/c-span and x @ c-spanwj. welcome to today's washington journal, we are glad you are with us. let's start with those polls. this is from gallup and this question is how they phrased it. i'm going to read a list of problems facing the country. for each, please tell me if you personally worry about this problem a great deal, a fair amount, only a little or not at all.

the top one came out as inflation at $.55 all by crime and violence. then hunger, homelessness, the economy, health care, the federal budget, and then illegal immigration at 48% and it continues the. they asked the question differently, they made it open-ended and they said what do you think of the most important problem facing the country today? and they let people just answer what they wanted to say. here's the latest from march of 2024, so march 1 the 20th. the top one was immigration followed by the government or poor leadership, the economy in general and then inflation. so those are some of the things but speaking of the economy, take a look at what marilyn governor wes moore said yesterday about that bridge collapsed and the economic impact it would have across the country.

>> it's not just a massive impact on maryland, this is a massive impact on the national economy. we are talking about one of the busiest ports inside the entire country, a port that handles more cars, more heavy trucks, more agricultural equipment than any other port inside this country. this is impacting the farmer in kentucky, the auto dealer in ohio. it is impacting the restaurant in louisiana and in tennessee. this is impacting the entire country so it really does become a national imperative that we can get the port of baltimore up and going again and the support that we are seeing, it is not because anyone is trying to do maryland a favor, it is because the national economy relies on the port of baltimore being up and running. >> getting the port open and running, at least operational, any idea on a timeline for that? much more long-term, getting the

bridge rebuilt? >> the whole operation is a remarkably complex operation. this is pretty unprecedented. different than what we saw from tampa and minneapolis because we have a ship, a vessel that is nearly the size of the eiffel tower that is now stuck because the key bridge which is 3000-4000 tons of steel is sitting on top of the. inside the water you have debris. inside the water you have wreckage and you have a channel that is just clogged because the ship is still sitting there. this is a remarkably complex operation. we know this is going to be a long road to recovery but we know we have to move with safety and speed. host: that is about that economic impact. this is an article from al jazeera saying what is the cost of baltimore's bridge collapse?

the closure could cost the economy $50 million per day, while insurers face up to $3 billion in claims. and we are taking your top election issue for this year's election. the numbers are republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. here is an article about immigration below the fold on the washington times this morning. it says this homeland security now required to revealed details of border chaos. the department of homeland security is being forced to become a lot more transparent about order activity, particularly how many illegal immigrants it is catching and releasing and why it is having trouble keeping so many of them in detention. congress ordered the data and

language tucked inside the massive spending package it cleared two weeks ago as part of their orders. lawmakers insisted that homeland security make it public. among the data required to be posted are how many beds the department pays for each month and how many of those are actually being filled. the department also must reveal the total number of migrants caught and released undersecretary mayorkas' parole powers. the reason for each parole, the number of migrants caught and valise under other worries and number of illegal immigrants referred by agents and others in office justice department for the prosecution. -- criminal prosecution. brad says economy, illegal immigration, foreign policy, men and women's sports and after rooms, those are his top issues. scott says i want toeelected

president that governs and surrounds himself with professionals. biden works for the lower and middlela, trump works for himself. how many former trump officials didn't endorse him, 10, 12? we will go to paul now, first up is early reading it california, republican. caller: good morning, america. thank you. listen, of course it's immigration. number one, when you see dozens of illegal aliens, russia, and troops on the border, is there any doubt that biden is trying -- if i were trying to get across to mexico that i would not be shot dead on the spot? this election coming up is a fight for good and evil. i'm going to tell you there are some reports of our cia involved

in moscow, and i believe that this democratic party is so people that they really believe that trump is going to take this election. it sure looks like he could again. they would actually put us into world war iii to avoid it. that's what i believe. host: all right, earl. ray in aurora, colorado. independent. caller: good morning. i'm affiliated with the libertarian party and like the previous caller, my top issue is immigration, although my take on the entire issue is different. i think the big problem or one of the big problems has to do with the immigration court caseload. i never thought i would see it go anywhere beyond $3 million, never mind $1 million or $2 million, and the administration promised to tackle the root

causes of mass migration, particularly in america, but i seriously doubt that this administration or any other is willing to really tackle it and to me, one of the root causes has to do with our involvement in destabilizing nations and favoring not so good leaders over the decades. i look at our meddling in foreign affairs as a root cause for mass migration. and generally i think another big cause of illegal immigration is the lack of legal opportunities available. we need to do what we can to give immigrants incentive to come in eagerly. -- legally. that means expanding legal options for everyone. host: got it. this is an ap poll about

immigration with the headline most favor hiring more order patrol agents and immigration judges. 79% of republicans, if the 4% of republicans favor hiring more border patrol agents. there is much less support for building a wall on the u.s.-mexico order, and you can take a look, it is a bit busy, but this is the visual of those results. milwaukee, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. first, let me say that probably national security in the long-term is my top election issue, but overall it is even actually more sad. i am a republican who voted for trump twice, but right now i feel nauseous when i think about the upcoming election because i just think it is so sad that we literally do not have an acceptable ticket for president

and vice president and i'm including trump in that as well. i'm sorry the politics has gotten so polarized, that is probably the top issue, but that is not really an election issue. host: was there somebody else that you wanted to see run? caller: nikki haley, i think she would've made an outstanding resident. even ron desantis. unfortunately, i have been actually very interested in what the no labels party was going to try to do, and they said they would only run a ticket if they could find an acceptable ticket and a ticket that they thought could beat both biden -- they were only going to run a ticket if it came down to biden and trump, which it is right now, and if they thought they could put together a ticket that could draw enough moderate republicans like myself and moderate democrats to beat both of those.

that effort unfortunately has fallen apart a little bit. when joe manchin was considering it, or he was thought to be considering it, he could have been the first democrat i ever voted for in my life because he was very practical and reasonable as a democrat and moderate and all that, but he has gone on to do other things. larry hogan also has gone out, and again, no labels. was going to run a combined ticket of president one-party, vice president the other. my goodness, how bipartisan can you get? now unfortunately with joe lieberman staff, and i believe he was a close follower of no labels were very involved in it, i've heard that the democratic party has left a lot of democrats and now i feel like the republican party has left a

lot of republicans like myself with nowhere to go. thank you for listening. host: regarding nikki haley voters, this is also in the washington times, it says trump makes no big moves to her in support of wavering nikki haley voters. it's as the cochair of her presidential campaign in the swing state of georgia said many of her voters are still "gettable" for donald trump but he has "a lot of work to do." jerry is calling us from clay city, kentucky, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. my greatest concern is honesty. back when pearl harbor got dropped on, my father-in-law tried to warn everybody. nobody would listen.

he was a missionary doctor. everybody voted democrat. i went to virginia in 15 years and i would become a bureaucrat, i registered independent. host: who d.c. as the top contenders between biden and trump, who do you feel is more honest? caller: i would vote for the governor of florida and i would also vote for trump. action people. america needs to get -- like the bible says, if my people called

by mabel humble themselves, they need to do it. humbled in the name of honesty. world war ii and world war i ladies went to work for their country. i just say god bless america. thank you. host: let's take a look at a portion of an interview on fox news on sunday. this is speaker mike johnson talking about the position that he is in on ukraine aid and bringing that to the floor. >> great question. look, what we have to do in an era of divided government historically as we are, is we've got to go consensus. if we want to move a partisan measurement got to have every single member literally and some things need to be bipartisan. that is the thing that the president presented several months ago. the national security supplemental ukraine, israel, the taiwan indo pacific region and also the border. and we said thank you, mr.

president because we've all said we are going to talk about national six ready and it begins that arrow order. the only leverage we have to force change on the border, we are still trying to force the president to use his executive authority and most of the american people know that if he has that authority, he is not using it because they opened the border intentionally. we've been talking with all the members, especially now with the district work period and when we return after this work period we will be moving a product but i think it is going to have some important locations. if we could use the seized assets of russian oligarchs to allow the ukrainians to fight, that is just the military. even president trump is talking about the loan concept where we are not just giving foreign aid, we are staying in open relationship where they can provide back to us when the time is right. we can have natural gas exports to help fund the war effort. there's a lot of things we

should do that make more sense around putting that product together. host: speaker johnson from yesterday. we are taking your top election issue and elizabeth is a democrat in randall's town, maryland. caller: good morning, how are you? i feel that the top election issue is really vitriolic. protesters have vitriol right now protesting against netanyahu but the u.s. has really had a terrible policy. biden needs to stop funding military aid to israel and he needs to refund the u.s. agency to give humanitarian aid to the palestinians. the u.s. is dropping parcels of food in the sea off the coast of taza, but a lot of people are getting food.

there needs to be a ship. spain is sending a ship from cyprus to gaza to give food. hundreds and hundreds of tons of food people in palestine and the u.s. to give humanitarian aid to gaza. biden has been terrible with his policy toward gaza. funding israel of military aid and israel is telling palestinians. that is my top issue in 2024, it is gaza. thank you very much. host: she did mention this protests. here is the washington post, thousands and israel call for netanyahu to resign as frustration mounts over stalled negotiations. families of hostages join antigovernment protest. tens of thousands of demonstrators flooded israel's streets for a second straight night sunday, calling for

immediate elections and for the government to urgently negotiate that release of more than 100 hostages still held by hamas in gaza. between the demands represented a merging of two distinct protest movements. one including the families of hostages, the other lead by civil society and the political opposition, which could become the greatest threat yet to prime minister netanyahu and his far right government. we wonder what your top election issue is this year. you can give us a call on our line. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. mark is in texas, republican. good morning. caller: yes, ma'am.

the fbi director several months ago -- can you hear me? host: if you could just raise your volume a little bit, i'm having a hard time. you were saying? caller: christopher wray, he said then that christians are friendly people. ever since then, he's been getting blinking lights. he's been getting major bright lights for terrorists crossing over our border. biden, he knows this yet he has not shut the border down. he could do it. trump did it they one.

he just doesn't want to do it. have you ever seen biden say anything bad about --? think about it. he takes up for him every time just like with the balloon. he wouldn't do anything about it . host: i am having trouble hearing you but i get your point was that you are most worried about terrorism coming across the southern border. we will go to queens, new york, independent. caller: how are you, thank you for having the on the show. my number one concern this election is democracy. whether we will have elections if trump is elected. i'm worried about the country. it is very scary times now in

terms of the thing that trump is promoting, the 2025 project, and all these ways in which they are trying to bring cronies into the government to change the government and take the civil servants out of the government. it is just a really scary time, so democracy is my number one concern these days. host: ron is next, denver, line for democrats. caller: about the border, the only reason the border was ever closed was because of covid. it was closed for 20 months and it opened on november 21. trump didn't shut it down, he's probably hired more undocumented immigrants than anybody in d.c. rich people want to these people because they are dying for cheap labor. it has always been about cheap labor. another problem i have is trying

to get this dangerous man off the streets. he is a psycho. did you see his post yesterday? threatening judges daughters, that is not right, and there is something wrong with you if you don't recognize that. thank you. host: and gloria is in wilson, north dakota, republican. good morning. caller: i think everybody should make skits, they should make their own skits, learn how from bus drivers. he could teach them. host: sorry gloria, i'm not getting it. caller: i -- i -- i write skits. i will send some on.

host: appreciate that. susan in south dakota, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you. the hugest issue with our election this year is that we have an absolute criminal that is able to run for office. i'm not clear how this is happening, but he has managed to have our capital attacked which has been the most disgusting thing that has happened in this country. in gaza and other parts of the world, he is calling those monsters that went into the capital hostages. all he does is promote violence. he is a rapist. and now he wants to sell the bible. how can such a violent man tried to destroy a country and sell a bible and add things to it?

this whole thing is insane, that he is able to be a candidate. the fact that all of these trials he has managed to manipulate, he is just taking our system and has made a mockery of it in general for america and our number one thing we need to fight for is to not have somebody that is morally bankrupt, that has no integrity at all running our country. it's just not able to happen. and what happens if it is not him, and all of these followers that have these violent tendencies including the president of the united states, how is this legal? all of these things that he is doing? the threats to our courts, the threats to all of these people, it is enough. democracy has to win, trump has to be jailed for this. he has to. thank you so much.

host: on facebook, sherry says these are top inflation issues. crime, high prices on everything. democrats are bankrupting america and americans and this is a text from ned in annapolis, maryland. my top three election issues. first, ukraine, second ukraine, third the pittsburgh steelers. aunt nikki and panama city, florida, republican, you are next. caller: my biggest issue is election interference. they've done about 10 hours a day on msnbc about trump, trump, trump. and yesterday it really -- really went over the top. they had one of the people talking about jailing him because of these gag orders. they gag order is really annoying. the idea that millions of people are interested in seeing this

person in office, there is so much effort to stop him from being able to speak. it is the number one amendment, freedom of speech. as far as january 6, he from the beginning said you have to fight. he said that from the beginning. it didn't suddenly come out of his mouth on january 6. nobody was riding before that except people in new york. host: so i want to ask you about the gag orders that you mention. the previous caller said that trump has got to stop talking about judges and the families of the judges and posting their pictures, that could endanger them, endanger their safety. what do you think of that? do you think that there should be limits to what he can say

about the judges and their families? caller: i really believe the daughter of the one judge that has connections with biden and the biden campaign, i really think that judge should recuse himself. i can't get past that one. and as far as stuff that is going on, if you don't think that trump is getting threats from people who are going around saying he is a danger to democracy, he is the worst thing in the world could happen to a country, he's going to be a dictator for life, you think the man is not getting threats? host: already. and here is deb from facebook who says that her top issues are women's reproductive freedom and climate change. and regarding that, representative michael lawler is

one of four house republicans supporting a bill that would codify the protection of ivf at the federal level. here he is from cnn. >> if we are going to be a party that supports life, we should be fighting to protect the ability of families to become parents. that is what this is about, ultimately. millions of americans struggle with infertility, and they rely on ivf to ensure that they have the joy of being a parent. and so i think that decision that came down in alabama was wrong. i think legislature obviously moved quickly, but there is political fallout from that. people want to reasonableness. they don't want extremism. i am personally pro-life, but i do believe in exceptions for rape and the life of the mother

and i have said very clearly i will never support a federal ban on abortion. this is a decision that would be made at the state level, and it would be made by the voters. and i think we need to do a much better job of listening and understanding where people are on these issues. ivf is something that is critically important for families all across this country, and i believe it should be protected, and that is something where i have signed on to federal legislation to do that, given the fact that some states have not moved legislation to protect ivf. host: and we are getting your top election issue. our numbers are republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will hear next on the line for democrats in milwaukee, melvin. hello. caller: hello. i'm glad i got through, thank

you for taking my call. i want to talk about donald trump. he hasn't been talked about too much. when he was running against clinton, he degraded him and slandered him and stuff like that never, ever gave service to the united states of america. not as an alderman or a mayor or nothing. in any capacity for anything that serves this country. a lifelong civil servant, the first lady of arkansas, she was a senator, she was a secretary of state. host: so what would you say is your top election issue? caller: my top election issue is

to look at donald trump and see what he is really about. he's got this hatred and distrust, and he exacerbates it. he hasn't said nothing good about nobody except for putin and kim jong-un. i believe that if he is reelected, he will ally us with them two. i believe his goal is actually to take over the world. that is when i really see. host: got that. gary in pacifica, california, independent. caller: hi, thanks for getting me on. it is corruption in government. legalized corruption. politicians on the democrats and the republicans, they are all

paid off by the highest bidder, which are corporations. republicans, every time you vote democrats, every time we vote got somebody that is not going to do what we want. immigration, i keep hearing it from the republicans. yet, it is bad. there are certain parts of the country, i live in northern california, it is a border state. frankly they are all in southern california, and other places. host: you were saying corruption. have you decided to you're going to vote for in november? caller: sure, i would love to vote for bernie sanders and aoc, but i'm not going to vote for kennedy, that whack-o. host: are you going to do a write in? caller: well, i'm going to look to see who the green party is.

and by the way i want to thank you personally for bringing on --. and please bring them back on, you personally, you are my hero. host: lloyd pennsylvania, republican, good morning. caller: hello, how are you today? host: i'm doing ok. caller: i didn't get your name. host: it's mimi. caller: how are you? you're good. my biggest thing today is about the media. the misleading media. like msnbc, cbs, abc, all of them just about. just about every single one of them. i wouldn't believe a word they said. i have a brother that works in new york city and some of the things he has told me, it is 90 what is going on there. and with the media, i wouldn't

trust them as far as i could throw them. host: so where do you get your news from? caller: on the internet a lot of places. i watch a lot of shows on the internet, on youtube especially. rules and finance is a very excellent channel. zach gregorio i think his name is? he is excellent, he tells it like it is. as far as news stations, if parents would start doing what they do in the 70's and actually tell you the news. host: i'm curious, do you ever fact-check what you hear or read on the internet? do you ever liked get another opinion? caller: how do you? howdy fact-check lies? you know what i'm saying? have you do that? and your democrat callers, you would swear donald trump had a bifurcating tail and fangs and red skin. i mean, really?

have they ever listened to donald trump talk ever? host: brenda in houston, line for democrats. caller: good morning and thanks for taking my call. i'd like to pay homage to the south dakota woman, she completely nailed it. there were a couple of others that mentioned democracy and more power to them. i question also why are we allowing this criminal to run for the highest office in the land? you know, i remember as a child watching the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's on television. these men stood up to this great america without even a pocket knife, with the very government and military against them. they stood up and died for their

cause. these republican leaders cannot even stand up to a racist, weak-kneed, putin-worshiping traitor. host: let me ask you this to get the color right before you said that these people haven't even listened to anything that trump has said because they are so busy demonizing him. have you sat down and listened to his speeches, have you heard what he has to say? caller: oh, i don't get my way, i'm going to call my mob out to get you people. i want my way. i'm going to do this, i'm going to do that. he is going to find out in the end that the people he is trying to rile up, i mean, they may be idiots, but they are not they are not going to give up their livelihood and things that they hold dear for trump. why are you doing it for trump? i don't understand. a part of me maybe he does

because the time is at hand. god is on his way back. thanks, mimi. host: albert sent us this on facebook. he says top issues are leading a constitutional republic. too many in this country want communism but they call it democracy so the fools will think it is stree stuff. hopefully we will elect politicians whose o to the constitution will guide their decisions, not party propaganda. let's hear from paul next in west palm beach, florida. independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. the 44th president, he said if there is a way can run for a third term that he could be running the country now.

his dream has come true, nothing but socialism. host: you are saying obama said i wish that i could have a puppet running the country? caller: he said that is what has tactically happened now. people got to see -- all the gas prices, the war, the border. things were much, much better a while ago. it will be nothing but socialism thrust if his dreams come true. that is what he said. that is what is happening. the gas price, the food price, the border. thank you. host: senator chris van hollen was on abc this week yesterday

and he was talking about president biden's relationship with israeli prime minister jan here it is. caller: as you know politically, this has been very damaging to president biden. you saw the protesters i'm sure as a fundraiser the other night. so what does president biden have to do to win those voters back? you are a democrat, i assume you want president biden to win, so what is your advice to him to win those voters back? >> i certainly want president biden to win. the future of our democracy depends on. the future of democracies around the world append on it. this is a case were just doing the right thing will also result in a better electoral outcome. in other words, yes, support israel's right to defend itself. i am all in on that. but reasonable requests like preventing people from starving

and 2 million palestinians to had nothing to do with hamas, and the president needs to back up his no excuses language with real action. just providing a blank check, providing more bombs without getting assurances now about rafah and not making the humanitarian disaster even worse, doing simple things right now to help people who are starving to death in gaza, those are simple requests. we have a situation where netanyahu continues to essentially give the finger to the president of the united states, and we are sending more bombs. that doesn't make sense. host: we are asking you about your top election issue this year. he did mention the sending of u.s. bombs to israel. this is on the front page of the wall street journal this morning. u.s. intel sharing with ally

israel stirs criticism, concerns grow that american-provided information adds to the humanitarian crisis. it is a secret memorandum that expanded intelligence sharing with israel after the october 7 hamas attack has led to growing concerns in washington about whether the information is contributing to civilian deaths. among the worries is that there is little independent oversight. the concern, u.s.-supplied intelligence isn't using strike that unnecessarily killed civilians were damaged infrastructure. that is all the wall street journal. dale is calling us from oceanside, new york, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. definitely the future of democracy. this is for all the democrat that will be voting for democracy in november. guess what, you already lost democracy under the biden regime. rfk jr. was not allowed to participate in the democratic primaries. the democrats did everything in

their power not to let him in. that was a big no-no. then he was denied secret service protection. that was the first time in our country's history that that was ever done. i don't know, is that democracy? in addition to that, the supreme court said it was unconstitutional that the american people pay back loan debt, but no, joe biden is still paying them back. i don't know, is that democracy? and last but not least, the fbi or cia had an informant who successfully testified for them for 10 years. and now his testimony is all lies. it is all lies against the biden family for receiving illegal money from foreign countries. i'm sorry. and he was lying.

i'm sorry, now he is lying, but then he was telling -- now he is telling the truth and then he was lying. i'm so sorry, it's early. host: i understand it is early but i did get your point about democracy. robert in north carolina, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to give a quick review of the republican side, which i'm not a republican, a quick review. we had 8, 9, 10, 11, we had 12 years of the bush administration. high prices of oil, 90 to $100 per barrel. people forget five dollars a gallon of gas, is on the republican side. that was 12 years of republicans. donald trump, telling you to drink clorox or bleach to get rid of covid. donald trump, the first two and a half years of donald trump,

covid came, everybody was scared to go out. gas prices were up. people say they made more money, with trump they pay people more money during covid to drive trucks, to work. people forget all that. but donald trump ain't did nothing. all he did was overthrow roe v. wade, piss people off, then he turned around and tried to change laws with abortion. and that is the only thing he has ever done. a lot of people forget that gas prices, people were scared to come out. essential workers made more money, ok. and then you get joe biden in office. joe biden save my life because he told me to get the shot. when i got the shot, people around me were sickened dying.

people who got the shot lived. donald trump refused to tell people to get the shot. the only thing he did was tell people to drink clorox. most people died from that thank, appreciate it. host: brenda in st. louis, missouri, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go right ahead. caller: well, you know what? i think that why is people scared of trump? he ain't did nothing but scare people and that is why they are against talking against him. people don't need to be afraid of trump. i mean, come on, people. let's get real. who is trump? he's not nothing but a person.

host: all right, brenda. take a look at representative don bacon, a republican from nebraska. he was on meet the press yesterday talking about plans for speaker johnson to bring a bill on ukraine aid to the floor, and the possibility that he could lose his position over it. >> let me ask you about the speaker of the house because you know that some republicans oppose him putting a ukraine aid bill on the floor. do you think he could lose his speakership over this, congressman? >> it's possible. i'm not going to deny it. we have one or two people who are not team players. they would rather enjoy the limelight, social media. and with a one seat majority, and we will end up with a three

or four seat majority, that is a very narrow majority. and one or two people can make as a minority. you work with a team, i would like to get 100%. 80% is the ronald reagan rule, but we have some people that they don't get 100%, they want to bring the house down and it makes us dysfunctional. i do think he will be democrats, though, who do not want to see this, and they will probably vote present or maybe not vote, but it is very likely that after this ukraine bail we may have a standoff with the speaker. i hope the speaker prevails. he's doing the right thing. it is in our national security interest that ukraine remain independent. host: just as a reminder, what they are talking about here, this is representative marjorie taylor greene files motion to oust mike johnson. speaker johnson has served as speaker of the house for five months, stop short of forcing a vote to remove him, calling her

motion "a warning." we are getting reports that the two might be meeting sometime this week, i guess to discuss that, but we will keep you updated if anything happens on that front. baltimore, maryland, republican. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i want to take us back to the gentleman who called earlier focusing on the media and what it has done to this country. i don't think people really understand that the media is using airways and in order to use those airways they have to pay license to accomplish that. let's go back to the surplus when clinton left office and i will call him president because he was really the one running the show. in my lifetime, i'm 78, i could go back to vietnam, cambodia. we were looking at $37 trillion

that we've now added to. as long as we keep people divided with the help of the media, which politicians will continue to do for the people that take care of them, which will be the hardware and software manufacturers that come in and say hey, we need the lions share of that budget in order to keep supplying the over 700 military bases we have worldwide, when this money should actually be brought back to the people of the country, close down these military bases, in this country is imploding. let's see if we can't do something in a positive direction rather than people divided. and as we are looking at israel and palestine right now, and the same thing in ukraine. we are supplying them what they need as the hardware and the software corporations continue to make revenue off this invisible money that our

grandchildren will never be able to pay off. so that is my comment. thank you for letting me get out there and share my thinking. host: joe, new mexico, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you think, what is your top election issue? caller: the bible states about the lawless man and yet trump describes that completely. a lawless man is exactly what donald trump is. i couldn't force myself to vote for him and all those who are in sin to follow him but i couldn't force myself to follow the devil. thank you. host: tim in michigan, the publican. caller: yes, good morning. not the last gentleman, but the gentleman before had some really

good points to say. as a republican, i would like to say that we are not hateful people. we actually love people, but we do not like the violence and the rhetoric that comes from the other side a lot, and if people cannot see that the only way to combat that is to go back and point out the fact that that is what they are being is people and silent toward certain people. and that is not america. the america that we want to have is the america of freedom. you can choose who you date, who you love. what work you do, if you want to

pay taxes, if you don't want to pay taxes, whatever, that is what them is so that is the important part. if we have 800 people deciding things for america as a whole, then we are never going to be good. we're just going to be continually going down and that is not good. so thank you. host: willie in chicago on the line for democrats. caller: hello. host: hello. caller: my name is willie. i just had to called in and tell you something. any time a major party has a criminal cult leader like donald trump, we are in trouble. years ago, the white working class in this country has the

potential to plunge this country into a right-wing nightmare, and that is finally about to happen. donald trump is not fit to be near the white house. anytime he would be at the capital, people who are doing their constitutional duty, and the president has to run for his life, this man is not fit to be in the white house. this is a shame. i really hate to see my country go into this condition. i am over 70 years old. this is sad. host: we will talk to carl next in west virginia on the line for independents. caller: how are you doing? this caller from west virginia, trump is a problem for this country.

number one, there is a subliminal message to all white folks that they are trying to keep america white. so what trump is doing, all the judges know it, everybody knows it. this whole thing is about keeping america white. and that is it, that is the bottom line. that is why trump gets away with what he is doing. the white folks know this. so what happened in iowa? host: so what would you say is your top election issue? caller: racism. racism. let me say one more thing. it is better to have one and not need one. it is better. host: joan in frisco, texas, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you. i just had to speak my mind, i'm

sorry, hold on. i was so afraid i wouldn't get to hear my voice today. i am voting for joe biden. hello? host: we can hear you, don't listen to the echo. you said you're voting for joe biden. caller: i'm voting for joe biden because joe biden is a good man. john mccain said that joe biden -- yes. host: that joe biden was a good man? is that what you wanted to say? caller: yes, he is a good man. and one of his opponents was john mccain. john mccain was a dying man and i believe a dying man that said some nasty things about joe biden. john mccain spoke up and said no, joe biden is a good man. he said all the senators respect

him and that is a lie, what they were saying about john mccain. as far as trump is, trump is a liar, a cheat, and the lord himself is going to win. and i believe that the democrats can win, but i don't think that god is for trump. host: mark washington, d.c., independent line. caller: thank you, c-span, always great to hear different colors from all over america. so i really believe in democracy and have family members who fought in the military and work in the executive branch and have worked with multiple political appointees across the administration. i think to me, it is extremely

concerning what is going on politically in our country, and i suggest people look at something called the fragile state index. in particular, look at cohesion. it is an indicator in the fragile state index. so i think america has a lot of issues with the division across different religious groups, across racial groups, and i think to me people have become very polarized within those groups. even the thing toward autocratic tendencies, and i think trump display goes, or toward democratic tendencies, and ivan displays those. i think the more polarized people are, the more they feel their government hasn't supported them or help them, they are likely to vote for donald trump. the more that people believe that government is good, that it

has helped them, that it regulates things in a positive way, i think they are more likely -- likely to vote for joe biden. so those are just some of my comments, kind of an academic way to look at things, kind of tones down the rhetoric, it is less emotional, but i think it is very concerning effect country has in the past shown itself to have democratic tendencies and now we are moving toward more potentially autocratic tendencies which is i think concerning. so those are my comments, have a good day. host: let's go to michigan next. republican, fred, what is your top election issue? caller: my top issue is all this talk about donald trump all the time. who paid for a russian spy dossier? the democrats did. hillary clinton and the democratic party paid for that.

they did all that stuff to trump for four years and they investigate him the whole time. then when he got out of office they started doing the same thing donald trump has done. host: and jessica is jessica is, virginia, democrat. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i have not seen this come up as an election issue much, i am very concerned about gun violence. as everyone knows, there is a massive gun shooting almost every other week. loads of gun mishaps and shootings that do not even. -- that do not even make the news. but if you google what is going on with gun violence in each state, it is amazing what you will find. i am for sensible gun

legislation -- host: like what? . tell us what you would like to see done. caller: i would like controlled weapons controlled a lot more, if not banned. in the last week, the governor of virginia vetoed an assault weapon proposal that was put forward, along with another piece of legislation that would have contributed to sensible gun legislation. i do not know why this is not more of an issue. it is very political, and people are afraid to touch it, elected officials, but that is ridiculous. i am very concerned. i live in the suburbs of washington, d.c., and the gun violence going on, not only in the district but in the larger area, is shocking.

i hope the public wakes up and starts voicing their opinion more on this. thank you very much. host: that is our last call for this hour. we will have more -- you will be able to weigh in more during open forum. next, we have a discussion on housing and equity in the u.s. with center for economic and policy research's dean baker pay later, you meet the creators of the prohuman foundation, daryl davis and letitia kim, on their effort to promote more stability in america. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> dr. andrew pedigree is a british historian at st. andrews university in scotland. his specialty is the history of the book and media transformation. he has written a great deal about the written word, with an

emphasis on libraries. his latest book is titled "the book at war: how reading shaped conflict and conflict shaped reading." in his introduction, he writes, in all nations, once war broke out, writers on libraries or expected to play a full role in forging a victory. after the second world war, the allies would face problems of how to sanitize or exploit the collections of the defeated. >> british historian andrew pettegree with his latest book, "the book at war," on this episode of book notes plus. book neslus is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcastss. ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your

primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government, taking you to where the policies debated and decided, all with support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. ♪ c-spanshop.org is c-span online store. browse through our products, including apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there something for every c-span fan, and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. shop now, or anytime, at c-spanshop.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined now by the cofounder and senior economic economist for the center for economic and policy research, dean baker. he is also a contributor to the book called "housing the nation:

social equity, architecture, and the future of affordable housing." welcome to the program. guest: thanks for having me on. host: before we get to the content, tell us about the center for economic and policy research, what the mission is, the funding, and your role there. guest: the center for economic and policy research got started in 1999. we are salivating artfully for the anniversary this year. we thought there were a lot of policy debates that were lacking. back then, it was widely said both democrats and republicans face a social security crisis, and we had to step back. we do not have to. we put out a book, "the phony crisis." a couple years later, there was a serious housing bubble that collapsed and caused serious problems for the economy, which proved to be right. we are concerned about trade

policy, which we felt was hurting the workers. the has become more widely accepted. so we have dealt with perspectives being left out of the debate. our funding is mostly from foundations. we are nonpartisan. we tend to be left side of the lyrical spectrum, but we have worked with people across the aisle. -- we tend to be on the left side of the political spectrum, but we have worked with people across the aisle. we have been around 25 years, which, in washington, is a lot better than other places. host: the book, called "housing the nation," is written by a series of economists with several contributors, you being one of them. in that book, it says come on a night, more than 650,000 in the u.s., many of them families with full-time will experience homelessness.

and the shortfall in affordable housing is estimated to be around 5 million units or more. first, how do we measure homelessness? where do those statistics come from? guest: the government tries to do a census -- you have people go in and out of homes. some people are not homeless year-round. on the other hand, means a lot of people are exposed to homelessness over the course of the year. what they do is pick a night and try to do a census of people around the street, try to find how many people are homeless that night. the ideas is to get a snapshot. obviously, that will very night tonight -- night to night. this should be treated as a rough estimate. the idea is to try and get how many people we are dealing with

who literally do not have housing. host: one of the other statistics, in addition to that 12% increase in homelessness in 2023, is that was the sharpest increa the largest unhoused population since the government began tallying totals in 2007. what is country reading to that as far as why the sharpest increase in 2023 in particular? guest: it is important to keep in mind -- i do not want to minimize the issue, but part of the big increase in 2023 was we had a lot of protections for people in place during the pandemic. a lot of those -- we had bans on evictions. those ended, so you had people who, in other circumstances, would have been evicted in 2020, 2021, 2022 who weren't because

you had bans on evictions. that was the reason for the large increase. it was not that thing suddenly got really bad. we had protections for people that have been good if we left them in place, but we did not. so we are roughly where we are pretty pandemic, so given the exactness of the measure, are we higher today than we were in 2019, probably somewhat, but i do not want to minimize the problem. i just want to say it is not as though we suddenly got this problem. it was a good thing we had protections during the pandemic. for better or worse, those are gone now. host: what are other factors that contribute to homelessness? guest: we had a huge increase in inequality in the united states over the last four decades. one of the things about inequality, the amount of money, income, went from 10% of earnings to 40%. when higher income people or very high income people -- when

they get more money, they decide to buy more things. they want to buy more furniture, more cars. we can produce more furniture and cars. if they want to buy more housing, that is a problem, because there is a limited supply of land, and when people want bigger homes, more homes, that puts a real strain on it. compounding it is you had zoning restrictions that made it hard to deal in many areas, so you have both an increased demand coming from high end earners and also limited supply, and then you go down the pay bracket -- not just the people at the very bottom, people who had good jobs at factories, a lot of those jobs are gone or, they pay less. we have seen less production and has tended to see its biggest

crisis in the housing area. there are problems throughout. people do not have a decent paying job, have problems paying for food and also the things, but housing is where the rubber hits the road. host: if you would like to join us and ask a question of our guest, dean baker, of affordable housing, here is how you can do so. here are how our lines are split up. for homeowners, if you own your home, it is (202) 748-8000. if you are a renter, it's (202) 748-8001 . everyone else can call on (202) 748-8002. you can also send a text to (202) 748-8003. and you can post on facebook and on x. connor dowdy -- connor dougherty report on housi and i would like to get your response. heon home prices are up abouoverhe past decade,

adjusted for inflation. t a quarter of renters, some 12 million households, more than half their income on housing, far in exceshe one third level considered healthy. homeamps have expanded and er commuters," those who drive for 90 minutes or longer rk, migrated well beyond the extensive coasts to smaller cities, like spokane, washington and fast-growing metropolitan areas like dallas and phoenix. what are your thoughts on that? guest: i think it answers largely the situation we have seen. i mentioned earlier about the housing bubble, which went on from roughly 2000 to 2007, when it started to collapse, then of course you have a great recession hit the economy very hard. if you look at the housing market, what you saw in those years in the bubble, we were

building over 2 million units a year in 2005, 2006. then we had the bubble burst, and construction literally collapsed. so we were down around 800,000, if you get to 2008, 2009, 2010. i do not have a crystal ball to tell you exactly what the right number is. we probably should have been billing about -- and i we gradually inched up, so you eventually got a million around 2016. just before the pandemic, we were at 1.3 million, still below what we should have been building. what that meant his we have this long deficit in construction that created stress on the housing market, upward pressure on prices. so this is still fallout from the public that we very gradually got back to more normal rates of construction. on top of that, with the

pandemic -- it created this huge surge in work from home, and that was associated with increased demand for housing, so you had a lot of people, certainly, they were able to work from home. the people working from home increased by about 70 million during the pandemic, and that has continued. he will now need more space in their home or home office. also, they do not have commuting costs. people work from home, they save on commuting costs, so they can afford more space, but what i did is put huge pressure on the housing market in 2020, 2021, 2022. we are starting to see that relax now, but that created a deficit in housing. so if you want to buy a home, it costs much more -- again, adjusted for overall inflation. it costs much more to buy a home. same story with rent. again, i think that is turning now. we are building more.

we have more units coming online, and it is starting to turn. but it is kind of like an oil tanker in the ocean. it takes a long time to turn around the housing market. it is likely to get better in the coming years. host: i wonder about interest rates, and given that those are higher now, are those causing more people to not be able to afford to buy a new house, and being forced to rent or some other solution? what do you think about that as an issue? guest: that is a very big deal. one thing worth pointing out, you have a lot of people -- this is part of the story -- you have tens of millions of people who refinance their home in 2020 to, -- 2022, so if you mortgage to your home already, you're very happy. but for a first-time home owner, you're suddenly looking at

mortgage rates 7%, the highest at a percent. high interest rates are a big issue. these are some of the areas that are a big issue every time the federal reserve board has a meeting. sometimes, the housing market gets neglected in that story. i am sure the fed is well aware of it, but it is not just do we have to wear about inflation or unemployment -- all tremendously important questions. but we also have to think about the housing market. i think the fed has been overly cautious, saying the economy looks strong and we are creating jobs. all that is true, but it greeted a very big problem in the housing market that you still have very high interest rates, so i am hoping -- it is not just my hope. jerome powell said they expect lower interest rates. i hope it is sooner rather than layer, because that will make it a lot easier for people to buy homes. host: there is what is being

called the montana miracle. this is efforts by the state of montana to address their housing shortage. i wonder if you can give us a little bit of information about what they are doing. they are really talking about the zoning changes, the land use planning that they are doing out there. it is having quite the impact. guest: a lot of the problem with zoning, and one of the nice things about that story, is it is relatively easy to fix. if we go to an expert in say we have to increase taxes to pay for more affordable housing, which we probably should be doing -- we have to raise taxes, people do not want to hear that. we will need more public funding to support affordable housing. but a big part of the story is changing zoning rules, because we have a lot of places zoned for single-family units. somebody wants to put an auxiliary unit in their backyard

they want to subdivide their place, they are prevented from doing it by zoning. montana is deliberately looking to ease up on that, and it has reduced prices, reduced the problems on affordable housing, homelessness. that is a really, really great story. other places are doing this too. austin, texas -- there -- their rents are falling. if you build more housing, prices will fall. there are competitions there. it is not just if you have more housing, everybody has cheap housing. by that is a big part of the story. what montana has done is really take the lead on this. it is probably also worth pointing out it is a republican state. this is not like some crazy, left-wing democrat -- it is just common sense. it is good to see montana has taken the lead there. host: let's talk to callers.

stacy is in wisconsin, a homeowner. caller: yes, hi. i have a question that i think that nobody may not think about. i own my own home only because my husband passed away, and i have two children who live with me that who do not have their father. the thing i think they should go back to is medicaid and what is called generational wealth, where medicaid is a parent or someone who owns a home, if they have medicaid and are over 55, later on, when they pass away, the people that would normally have their home, like their children or family members, get their home taken away, because medicaid has an estate recovery plan. i think that is a huge reason why a lot of people do not have

a home, because their person before them, their ancestors and other things, they don't have a home because medicaid comes and seizes the home. that is what i wanted him to address, because that actually goes to a lot of people who are poor. they owned a home throughout the time, then after they die, medicaid seizes it from the state. host: dean, can you discuss that? guest: it raises two very good issues, import issues. first of all, housing traditionally has been the main form of wealth that most people have, most middle income people have. they own a home as wealth, they do not have $100,000 or $200,000 sitting in the stock market, so what they will pass down to their kids is their home. so it is an important way to

build wealth. you can argue whether that is the best thing. i think arguably you should look to build wealth other ways. but that is the reality for most middle income people. the other part of the story is our health care system, which has been kind of a mess, to put it generously. what that means is that you have a lot of people, when they get older and face health-care expenses, medicaid, force, is a program for people who are poor, so they may not have been poor during their working life, but then they have big bills in retirement, medicaid picks up those bills, but then it says but we are going to snatch your assets. for most people, that asset is their home. on one hand, it is born to try and develop other ways for people to build wealth, other than just their home, come again, that is reality for now. the other thing is the health care system -- if he did not have such extensive health care,

you would not have a story where so many people suddenly ended up on medicaid and basically build up these huge bills, and medicaid comes and takes their home when they pass. those are two really huge problems. i do not think there is a simple solution. there is not. but we have to try to find better ways to build wealth, and, most importantly, try to fix our health care system. i should point out we have made progress. health care costs have slowed tremendously over the last 10, 12 years, basically things to the affordable care act. whether you want to give obamacare credit or not, that is just the time. host: let's talk to raymond next in new hampshire, homeowner. caller: yes. one question i do not understand they do not do -- like after a natural disaster, the government came in and put in temporary mobile homes. there was a lot of surplus like down south. now, mobile home parks are a

quick and easy way to address housing. they can be put in areas where they could be in economical areas for towns and cities, and also mini homes. people can afford them paid a lot of -- the reason why a lot of banks do not like to loan on them is because as a mobile home gets older, they depreciate. why not just take those mobile homes and make them a lot better, so that they could sustain the value and have a place in the american -- that people can afford it if they had a low income, say if you worked at mcdonald's. even if it was a co-op park that could be set up, these are quick, fast, and are more economic than a lot of these major buildings that i am seeing popping up here for housing in my state, new hampshire, where a

lot of these other ones, the trailer parks, the mini home areas that can be produced and get a lot of people off the streets. host: all right, ted. guest: that is a really good point. a lot of this gets back to zoning issues. you have restrictions on what homes can be placed where. there has been kind of -- i should find a better word than prejudice, but i will say prejudice now, against manufactured homes and mobile homes. we want everyone to have good housing, which, of course, we do, but it is better to have some housing that might be less than the most desirable, then no housing. there is a lot we could do. but again, we want it to be good housing. you could make good manufactured housing. many places have good, manufactured housing.

but it is not inferior quality, so i think having more spaces for people to rotate manufactured housing, that would be a great thing, and a certain part of the solution. again, you have to look to lower the cost of construction, and that is one way we could do it. host: you have a couple solutions, that i would like to put up on screen. one of them is t limit vacation rentals, lik airbnb. what impact does -- is vacation rentals like airbnb having on affordable housing? guest: where you have seen airbnb's pullout, it does raise rents. kind of stands to reason. you have a limited amount of housing available for rent. if you have people renting out places, not regular renters, they are airbnb's, that reduces the supply of rental housing for

people to live in that place, in that city. what i and what other people would say -- i do not want to implicate my co-authors -- it is better to have those people in hotels, places that are designated as hotels, whatever, then short-term rentals. which is not to say zero. i think it is a good innovation. but limiting that so it does not get to a situation where it substantially impacts the supply of housing, which i think, in many areas, it has. host: another recommendation you make is to convert vacant office space, but how easy is it to take an empty office building and make it into an apartment building? or as is sometimes easier to knock it down and rebuild it from scratch? guest: a couple points here. it is not easy.

the thing is it can be done, -- it can be done. what you have to do is change your zoning restrictions. i keep hitting on that, because a lot of that is zoning restrictions make it more difficult. but there are issues like how many windows do you have? it is good to have windows, but maybe allow people to have units that have fewer windows, so you do not have a window in every bedroom, so changing a zoning restrictions to facilitate that. the other point to keep in mind -- sure, some office buildings will be difficult to convert. others are easy to convert. i lived in washington, d.c. for a quarter century.

plenty of old office buildings are now residential. this is before the pandemic. that is because they were not that hard to convert. we want people to move their offices from places that are easier to convert to places that are harder to convert. cities can help that process. there are subsidies. encourage people to leave the building that can be converted and move into buildings that are more difficult to be converted. this is not to be done overnight, but it is a very important thing, not just to create housing, but you look at the downtowns of san francisco, d.c., and other cities -- they are not empty, but they are certainly nothing like they were before the pandemic, so if we could convert a lot of those vacant spaces to residential, that would be a big step towards revitalizing those downtowns. host: let's talk to brian next in oregon, a homeowner. caller: good morning. i would like to bring up a few

things. i was a contractor before i retired, and the most important part i would like to say is there is a missing component in this picture, and that is, as an employer, i noticed a lot of people do not want to work. for whatever reason. there are a lot of different reasons. i am not talking about the people who did not have a way to work, like they were handicapped or they had mental illness or they have really bad alcohol and drug problems. i am talking about that middle subset. they do not want to work for $15 to $18 an hour or $20 to $22 an hour. they think that is beneath them. i expensed that a lot in my life. i will support you in saying that, as a contra fact -- as a contractor, i did retrofit empty buildings to housing. it is difficult. and the cities and that counties are very, very resistant to

these changes. they, for some reason, do not want that much housing. that is my experience. thank you. host: what do you think? guest: obviously, there is always going to be some number of people, for whatever reason, that do not want to work. but the data to focus on high wage workers. we expect most of them to be working. if we look at the percentage working, it is actually near all-time highs. for women, it is actually woment all-time highs. there's a lot of restrictions. who are the men who aren't working, then in their 30's, 40's. sometimes it is drug problems, alcohol problems, people with criminal records have a very hard time job but the number of

people who say i don't feel like working, there have always been some people who aren't working, but the number is relatively low. host: let's talk to barbara who is a renter in tallahassee, florida. caller: good morning, how are you? my question is i am 75 years old and since i can remember in my lifetime, the mortgage length of time for a fifth mortgage has been 30 years. you can buy a car now and it used to be 36 months. now they've raised it up just like seven or eight years because nobody could afford a car. if we had a longer-term for

mortgages instead of 30 years, you would think by this time we could have raised it to 40 years. when that make it easier for a lot of people to buy homes? that is my question, you all have a great day. guest: very good question. i have to say i haven't given that one in particular that much thought but it is a very good point. if you go back to about three decades ago in japan, a serious housing bubble, the house prices were absolutely crazy. fifty-year and even 100 year mortgages, and you could go that route. again, it is not impossible. the 30 year mortgage has really been institutionalized. there are mortgage-backed securities overwhelmingly based on your mortgage.

change, i'm not saying it is fixed in stone, but efforts toward increasing the length, if a bank wanted to offer a 50 year mortgage, i'm sure some do, but we don't have institutional structural settlements. if home prices continue to get higher and higher we might cease and in that direction. it's a very reasonable question. host: you have an article here on your website that says it is a great time for a vacant property tax. how does that work? are owners not taxed on properties that are vacant currently? guest: the idea of a vacant property taxes to make it more costly to leave a place empty. you have a lot of people who might have a place open the price goes higher somewhere in the distant future to move them,

have a relative move in, but they let a property sit vacant. in a context for you have shortage of housing, that is not something we want to see. we already have the property on the books so we are not going out there trying to measure. your value, 500 thousand dollars, whatever it might be, it has been vacant for more than six months. you have to pay a 2% tax. so to try and give the property owners incentive to have the space fill. you don't want places sitting empty. again, another story is that one of the things we don't want is a lot of property sitting empty.

san francisco just putting in place, vancouver, canada put in place eight or nine or 10 years ago. i don't want to say that is going to cure everything, but you definitely want to discourage people from having properties sit vacant. let's talk to dwight who is a homeowner in fairfield, california. caller: good morning, how are you doing this morning? this is great, i just watched a segment and now with dane coming on, it leads me right into migrated concerns. the november ballot we had the issue of this job and clean energy initiative. we are taking signatures now and this initiative is to build a community of at least 50,000

people. one of the biggest obstacles to this initiative is government gerrymandering, congressman mike thompson, because the people to come and kiss their rings and ask for permission to do this. this group is called california forever. these are billionaires, they are big money. and as you know, big risk can give big rewards or they risk can make big losses as well. but here in northern california you look on the side of the freeway, and a lot of people don't want to be homeless, and these people are trying to build new home and these restrictions on things that were done back in the 50's, if these people were

looking, they are looking to do something 2024. this is brand-new. we don't know how it's going to turn out but if at least someone is trying to do something to get people in homes. they did their homework, they talked to travis, and this is a great thing. government is the biggest obstacle for them trying to do that. thank you for taking my call. guest: i can't say that much about the specifics. in general but i will say that we definitely need housing. could there be other aspects? i can't comment. obviously anytime time you about a big project there is going to be some negatives some whether

this had been treated fairly, zoning restrictions had been prohibited, i'm just saying i am not in a position to judge that but in general this is the sort of thing we want to see. we definitely want more housing. there are issues that maybe could be addressed but if we get some 50,000 units in the bay area, to me that sounds like a really good thing. host: jerome's renting in martinsville, indiana. caller: my question today is we have right now, i can say a definite number but it is over 5 million immigrants coming to america and we are now paying as taxpayers for them to be in apartments. so what is the answer to the problem there? guest: immigrants contribute an

enormous amount of the u.s. economy. for the most part they're not getting much public support. jobs, in many cases people are very reluctant to do. i don't want to great example, we saw an example of the sort of working. when we saw the bridge collaps d in baltimore last week, those were immigrants. people who work middle of the night and is very dangerous. i'm not go to say immigration doesn't create problems, of course it does. most immigrants actually don't have very much housing. but they come here to work and i don't see it as a net problem. it does definitely create problems, but it also answers a lot of problems.

one of the stories of the economic recovery, we see more rapid growth than just about anyone had expected. a lot of that is immigrants came in and increased the size of the labor force and our ability to produce goods and services. there are definitely some problems created that i don't think anyone would say they are not accused the economy. host: let's talk to nick next in belmont, massachusetts. caller: thank you for taking my call. the problem with the red tape to build these affordable housing unit. and maintaining it. if the plumbers are charging 100 $50, $200 per hour, you need to go through huge red tape to build these units. it's going to be harder and harder to create the affordable housing and maintain it. cast: certainly redtape is a problem. i would say for the most part it

is not labor cost but for the most part it is not labor cost. construction workers are not paid very well and on average. five they were able to build so many homes in 2003. that story simply isn't it. that doesn't mean there's not somewhere you have them pay for specific specialties, i'm sure there are. but many of the regulations, 30, 40 years ago, i'm sure they are well-intended, but they have to be adjusted. we have to do a lot more. host: following that question from the caller, this is in the wall street journal.

why private developers are projecting government money for affordable housing. a complex in los angeles, buildings financed with public money. it also talks about in that article about the energy efficiency standard, funding coming from a variety of agencies, each with its own approvals and regulations, and that all flows construction at cost. what do you say to that? guest: i can't speak to the specifics of the case but we often do have problems like that where we want energy-efficient units. that doesn't mean you can build it it doesn't mean a very high standard. that is going to keep the unit from being built. probably want to build it even at a somewhat lower standard that you have to really look at the regulations, try to eliminate ones that come at the end of the day, you can say it

would be better if it had a higher standard, but we need the housing. i don't want to pass judgment on specific instruction going on in l.a. i haven't studied that, but often times i think the regulations are too strict and it prevents us from building housing. the end of the day, that is not doing anyone any good. host: we have a question for you on x. when it comes to access: affordable housing, how does the reported 50 mlion-17 million vacant homes in the u.s.,ow many are suitable for habitation and how do they affect current prices and availability? guest: most of the vacant homes are on the market so it is not just a huge amount that are sitting vacant part of that as many of those places are on the market but maybe people are asking a real high price for they don't want to rent. we don't have a story where we have massive numbers of vacant units that people can just fail.

if landlords want to fill the unit, the vacancy rate, they should double check the vacancy rate for rental unit somewhere around 7% which is historically relatively low. it has been low at other times, but that is the lower end, a relatively low rate. i don't think the problem is we have all these units sitting vacant, but again, we want to have as few vacant units as possible. you are always going to have some turnover. you can't expect that as soon as one tenant moves out, it is going to be filled today. host: mike in houston, texas. caller: i actually am a housing consultant, do housing studies, have done them all over the state of texas, missouri, and oklahoma.

a big issue with the price of housing is that we can't build the homes that we really want to fight. if we just built a bunch of big mcmansions and that is all we build, it is easy to say that is what everybody wants to five. zoning, lot size and home size, minimum regulations is a big issue across the country area in houston, we have a minimum lot size of 1400 square feet. if you go to other parts of the country, other states, it is 5000 square-foot as a minimum, the smallest you can build a home on his 5000 square feet. here at least we have 1400 square feet which is a lot smaller and you can build a lot cheaper homelands all lots but if the regulations say you can't build that small, then you can't legally build homes that small that are more affordable. the other thing is homeowners, not in my back yard. if a bunch of homeowners come together and say we don't want to housing, apartment or small

lot homes built close to ours, nobody's going to fill them. in texas we don't have it like that but in california they bunch of resident to come together and say we don't want to housing in our neighborhood, that is going to drive up the cost of housing. san francisco prevents like three houses a month. chicago, dallas, houston, these cities consistently are the only ones in the country that build housing every sale year and therefore have more, cheaper home market because they allow homes built whether people like that or not. the other thing, immigrants. immigrants typically work in industries that we demand low prices for. the retail, food, hospitality. all these quality-of-life issues and everybody once in their community, if they have immigrants working those jobs, first of all, they probably exist, and second of all they

would be much higher. host: let's get a response. guest: very good point. that is any way to limit housing in a lot of places. every lot size restriction in the state, but in houston, it is still relatively small and that is true in most of the state in terms of people restricting building their neighborhood, it is a mixed story. but on the other hand, in san francisco, i don't want to see san francisco covered high-rises it is a city that people come to visit because of the way it is. you absolutely get more housing in one of the things that many people proposed is you radically relax restrictions near metro stops, public transit so there you will have high-rises with argie and its while you still

could preserve neighborhoods. that seems in my view at least a very reasonable compromise. host: dean baker, architecture and the future of affordable housing. also cofounder and senior economist at the center for economic and policy research. thanks so much for joining us today. guest: thank you for having me on. host: up next, daryl davis and leticia kim discussed the organization's efforts to improve stability in the u.s. but first, it is open for them. your chance to weigh in on anything on your mind public policy. the numbers, (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. stay with us.

>> do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to have will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? announcer: the explore major investigations by the u.s. house and senate in our country's history. each week authors and historians will tell the stories, we see historic footage, and examine the impact and legacy of key congressional hearings. this week, a committee led by harry truman in the 1940's. examining the national defense program and whether there was corruption, waste, and inefficiency in military contract the committee's work is said to have saved money, lives, and maybe even shorten world war ii. watch saturdays at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two.

celebrating the 20th anniversary of our annual studentcam documentary competition, this year c-span asked middle and high school students across the country to look forward while considering the past. participants were given the option to look 20 years into the future or 20 years into the past and in response, we received inspiring and thought-provoking documentaries from over the 200 students ross only two states. our top award of $5,000 for grand prize goes to nate coleman and jonah --, 10th graders in connecticut. the compelling documentary, navigating past and future conflict with iran. >> it is evident that in the next 20 years the united states will make more policy that faced heavy restrictions on all americans traveling to irvine because not only will receive less hostage-taking, but the u.s. will no longer have to purchase for such considerable negotiations with iran. announcer: congratulations to our winners and don't miss out. the top documentaries air at

c-span every morning: 50 every morning throughout the day beginninpril 1 and you can want of the studentcam films anytime online. washington journal continues. >> we are back to washington journal and we are going to be taking your calls on our lines i party on whatever is on your mind politics-wise that is happening in washington or around the negative election news for you before we get started, this is in the new york times. china's advancing efforts to influence the u.s. election raise alarms. it's as china has adopted some of the same this information tactics that russia used ahead of the 2016 election researchers and government officials say. cobra chinese accounts are masquerading online as americans of orders of former president donald trump, promoting conspiracy theories, building domestic divisions and attacking president biden ahead of the election in november according

to researchers and government officials area you can signal a tactical shift in how beijing aims to influence american politics with more of a willingness to target specific candidates and parties including mr. biden in an echo of russia's influence campaign before the coming 16 election. china appears to be trying to harness partisan division to undermine the biden administration policies despite recent efforts by the two countries to lower the temperature in their relations. and oscar is calling us from north carolina, republican, good morning. caller: yes ma'am. can you hear me? host: yes we can. caller: thank you. i'm an 87-year-old retiree and my wife passed away from covid about three years ago so i don't get out much. i want a lot of tv, though, and

i start every day with c-span. my complaint this morning is not a real complaint, just comments, immigration. i mean, we've done all these things, millions of people coming across the border down there. they are just looking for a better life. but when you see groups of 50 to 100 coming through in military formation, they are not here for a better life, they are here to cause a lot of trouble. i believe that it won't be too long before we are going to start having these people who are going to wake up and we will start having a lot of -- here in the united states. and way down on the list i hear people say their main concern is productivity, female productivity and climate change. i think when these bombs start going out and people start dying all around us, i believe that

wanting to kill your baby is going to be the last on your mind at that time. thank you for taking my call. host: all right, oscar. robert in texas, morning. caller: i just want to know, i cannot understand why people respect donald trump and the next president, the things he is doing right now. only thing he has ever done is talk about people. he has not told none of these people what is going to do for them. everything is about him. the only reason you're getting immigrants across the border is donald trump chose not to take this deal with more border agents find out. the only thing that they like about trump is racism, so just get it over with. he is not going to do anything for you or your kids or your grandkids.

i'm sure glad that minor loan and i thank you very much. post: regarding immigration, this is in newsmax today. senator blackburn, mayorkas impeachment block should anchor everyone. it says that americans should be incensed by senate majority leader chuck schumer's wish to shelve articles of impeachment first in the house against secretary mayorkas according to senator marsha blackburn. she said this yesterday. what we are hearing is for the first time in our nations history, chuck schumer is wanting to table the impeachment article. under mayorkas and president joe biden's watch, nearly 10 million immigrants have the united states illegally according to senator blackburn. and sheila is calling from massachusetts, independent, good morning. caller: hi, how are you today? i just have a question regarding

nasa and the moon. it was my understanding they want to develop the mood in order to send out spacecrafts of people can go to mars when they get that far into that project. and i thought the moon affected the tides of our oceans and i'm always wondering if the moon just developed with all of these buildings and other the things they're going to have to put up there, how is that going to affect the moon and the tides on earth? that is what i wanted to find out about. host: i'm not a scientist but i don't think that that is really going to impact that at all. gravitational forces, i think that any structures on the moon wouldn't be substantial enough to affect that. >> ok, thank you. host: phil in hawaii,

democrat. what are you doing up early in hawaii? caller: i was listening. i missed the housing part for you were talking with the homeless situation if it was implemented nationwide that you had a charity, you had people who can contribute, that just went to building houses like prefabricated houses, the people who built these houses would go around to the different parts of the country to the government and whatever that are running that part of the country and said something like if you are willing to put in the infrastructure and provide the land, we will provide the housing. to see how many communities would go ahead and adapt such a

program, because to me, what seems to happen is you have developers that want to make a lot of money, and you have politicians who don't want to build the infrastructure because it costs too much, because they are helping the people who are building houses have a better way of providing affordable houses, but i'm thinking of it like this way. if they were willing to provide the land in the infrastructure, a charity would pay for the houses. and then they can rent them out, they can sell them, to them whatever they want, but it would take a lot of people in them into housing that they can't afford to get into because here you had a charity that is helping them do it what do you think of that idea? host: all right, phil. homelessness and hunger actually are, we talked about this gallup poll earlier in the program

about what people are worried about a great deal. hunger and homelessness actually came in third at 52% saying they personally worry about this problem a great deal. 52% of those that responded. philip is in mississippi, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. what is going on in florida's environment with fish actually turning upside down, before they die, spinning like a top because of something in the water that is causing them to die. we rarely talk about our environment which is the most important element of life. most of the people call about the immigrants coming across the border and things of that

nature, but they rarely talk about how important the overall environment is. republicans seem to be running people that have no interest in life. it's just the dollar. or military posture or telling us what we canon cannot do with our bodies. i just don't understand what group of people want that type of government. and again, climate change is our most important subject and is rarely mentioned. i do also think that race relations is importanti think te important. we still have a lot of people living in the civil war days. in the case of environment and the kind of leaders -- it is very important to me. host: this is abc news from a

few days ago. scientists baffled over fish dead on south water shores. we are taking your calls on open forum. the number for republicans is (202) 748-8001. for democrats it is (202) 748-8000. for independent colors, the number is (202) 748-8002. caller: good morning. i just want to make a broad comment. my thing is, when i listen to people talk, i know there is a right and a left, there is democrat and republican. i just think, and perspective, i think we should look at policies

that people always push. i am 64 years old. i do not believe -- i think we are all -- i think we all come from each other. we put that into perspective, the republicans have nothing to do with who you are as a human being. language is something that we learn and i think what we need to do as american, we can run around and claim how patriotic we are, but the only thing that will secure us as a nation and a country -- when we start jumping around and saying independent, democrat, republican, it is self-defeating because we are not upholding the democratic policy in this country. erdogan lost an election in

turkey. he says he respects what happened there. can you imagine that in this country? it seems as if we are going backwards and then moving forwards. we have to stop thinking about right, left and liberal. just think about the country so that we can move ourselves forward. that would be better instead of jumping around. these are grown people in the military, that have been forever claiming how patriotic they are but then saying, i cannot vote for a democrat or republican. vote for something that is beneficial for everyone to move forward. if we can do that, we would be in a better place. host: next, greenville, north carolina.

caller: good morning. first of all, donald trump needs to be in jail, without bail because of his actions. there is no excuse. it is ridiculous. the joy is still messing up the post office. we are having trouble with our mail. the -- he is saying it and i consider it a threat to our country. i do not understand why this man can do so much damage. host: who wants to kill democrats? caller: the guy -- the guy he gave a part into.

host: ok. i think we lost him. ed, in lawrence, georgia. caller: that guy from north carolina, i do not know what he is eating, but he needs to change his diet. what i am upset about is people who call in, they are concerned about all these people coming into the country. the truth of the matter is, 10 million people coming into this country illegally is going to cause a lot of problems. they are already causing problems. they are not supposed to be here. another thing is the squatters. these people, every state should just make it where you call the

police. i went to kroger, i come back, there is somebody in my house. that is called breaking and entering. let's wake up or we are all going to die. host: anthony in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i was listening to the guy from hawaii about the homeless problem and there is a solution and he is on the right track. i myself was homeless and now i have a masters degree in nursing. there are plenty of houses. there are empty houses everywhere, but there are homeless people. the solution is to get the government involved and implement a five-step program. we deal with the psychological, emotional and social.

our biggest problem is that we do not have any continuity of care. we can stabilize anybody come but after that happens, one thing i have done through my research is discovered that no one is born homeless. something happens. we need to address the problem that way. people are so entrenched that they do not want to think outside the box. i wanted to share that i agreed with the guy on the line. host: how did you end up homeless? caller: residuals from childhood trauma and abuse, crimes and dealing with all of that stuff, not having any effect at coping strategies or any way to deal with repressed childhood drama. i dealt with all of that and then some. host: how did you get out of that cycle? caller: i had to change the

environment and then get some outside help to do some inside work and then be some -- be consistent with it. getting some self-esteem and self-worth and developing confidence in who i am as a person. host: i am glad you are doing well. independent line. caller: i like to comment on the homelessness also. our country as -- in general, i think we should start fresh. it is almost like our country is being run by a bunch of demonic entities. i'm really concerned about my children at this point. biden is bringing in people from other countries and we do not know what they are doing. you all are all over trump, but

you're not looking at what biden does. to me, you do not cover her the anything that matters to us. host: when you say you are worried about your children, what specifically are you worried about? caller: everything. america is not america anymore. we are not free. they are changing the laws. it is our fault because we are not paying attention. we have gotten lazy. as far as race, my children are mixed. i do not see color. color is not a big issue. why does everybody want special privileges? it's not what they say it is. everything is upside down right now and it is scary because i do

not know what is going to happen to my kids. i do not know if they will have jobs, if they will be there anymore. they are outsourcing. and we are allowing it to happen. aren't we the one that put him on the hill? why don't we knock him down? trump went about it the wrong way, but in my opinion, he was trying to overthrow our government because our government is cracked. it really is. host: there is an election coming up in november, see you could fire your representative and senators. caller: personally, i cannot because it takes more than just. host: true.

caller: what i do not understand is every time we turn around come here about the government and more money. i do not understand why it has not been brought up. i think it was a while ago about paying the fair percentage and it was never brought up again. i do not really believe in either candidate right now because to be, they are both weak. the same things keep happening, the same lies. host: you like the idea of a flat tax? at what level? >> whatever percentage that they come up with between businesses and everybody. about 15 to 20 years ago, it

somebody way back was trying. host: remember steve forbes? he ran for president briefly. i remember that. caller: that was never brought up again. he could probably set it up and simplify it a little bit you would not have to hire more irs people. it was just never brought up and the government keeps spending money. we are in debt. i see major problems and nobody talks about it. host: the line for democrats is next, james in newark, new jersey. caller: good morning. two things. the federal judge's daughter was threatened.

i lost my fiance -- 10 years on medically imprisoned. i would represent myself. thank you. host: alan is next in jonesborough, tennessee. caller: thank you. this is alan. regarding the homeless factor, you could make an argument, but if you have not been homeless, you cannot relate. why don't you make shelters for individuals, not shelters but homes, simple, direct and fairly indestructible. if you build a basic florida type brick home, people might say that is not very attractive, but do we really want them to

stay in those homes? i will not get into a minimum-wage argument, but if you look at an example of san francisco, there are examples of protected housing, but if somebody is going to be on the duel of the government, they leave -- they need to live in the part of town that is affordable. simple, affordable housing and if you damage it, you damage it, you're out of there. they need to pick able-bodied men and women up and say, we will have a full day of work for you, but -- we need to go back to behavioral psychology. it is simply destroying the country. thank you. host: let's talk to david in virginia beach. caller: this is a question for

your independent and your trump rhinos. open borders, higher taxes, redistribution of wealth, climate fanaticism, transgender nonsense, weaponization of government, religious persecution, censorship, unlimited wars, trillion dollar deficits, runaway inflation, vague elections and abortion on demand. host: that will be the last word for open forum, but there will be more. we will talk to darrell davis and they will discuss the effort to improve stability in the u.s.

>> dr. andrew is a british historian at st. andrews university in scotland. his specialty is the history of media transformations. he has written a great deal with an emphasis on libraries. his latest book is titled how they shaped reading. he writes, and all nations, writers and libraries were expected to forge a victory. how to sanitize or exploit collections of the defeated. >> have reading shape conflict and conflict shaped reading. book notes plus isvaable on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> get contact information in the palm of your hand when you preorder. important information on congressional committees, federal agencies and state governors. every purchase helps to support our nonprofit organizations. preorder your copy today for delivery this spring. friday night, watch the campaign trail. a weekly roundup to discover what candidates are saying to voters, along with firsthand

reports. updated poll numbers, fundraising data and campaign ads. march the campaign trail friday night on c-span, online at c-span.org or download the podcast on c-span now or wherever you get your podcast. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it any time online at c-span.org. videos of hearings and debates feature markers that guide you to newsworthy highlights. they appear on the right-hand side of your screen. it makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. to spend a few minutes on points of interest. washington journal continues.

host: we are joined by darrell davis. i want to start with you about the protein in foundation. how did you get involved and how is it funded? >> the process -- guest: they are a nonprofit organization. we are all unique individuals and we have cora valley -- core values in order to build character and grow closer together rather than apart. great, optimism, curiosity, tolerance of other views, compassion, fairness and gratitude. i wanted to get into a little bit of the reason why we felt it

was necessary. for me, personally, i have two children who are now teenagers. in 2018, i became concerned about what my children were being taught and how they were being taught. i placed these concerns into broad categories. i felt the school was taking a divisive approach. my children were taught that all americans are oppressed because of their race. they were taught to be deliberately conscious of everyone's race and that race affects how we treat and interact with people. i felt this was progressive and contrary to the principles of the civil rights movement.

i thought it was contrary to my family's values and -- our kids are mixed, a fact that we thought was unremarkable. but at school, they were taught that the racial differences in our family were very important. second, i noticed an overarching focus on content. they went to great lengths to teach students about colonialism and other human conflict and injustices. most definitely a large part of the human story and should be taught, but they are not the only part of the human story because that story is also about collaboration, cooperation and progress by between those of all races.

finally i saw a limitation that i think is quite common. on many topics, it contained only one perspective. unless parents are supplementing at home, it keeps students from having a understanding of the topic from the people to form their own opinions. these are young kids we are talking about. it does everybody a disservice because unless they are presented with competing ideas, they are not going to develop the skills that they need to engage productively with people of different views. we established the foundation as a counterpoint to that approach. we are funded by private

individuals and foundations. host: you have been on this program before, reaching out to members of the kkk. there is an npr about that. a campaign to change the minds of white supremacists. can you remind us about the work you have done and how that informs the work that you are doing now? guest: absolutely. i am continuing that work. even racists who do not belong to a group in particular. it is important to have that -- open-minded communication. and missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution. i seek these out. people do not always want to talk about the elephant in the room. i prefer to talk directly to the

elephant in the room. our country is getting smaller and smaller, not in terms of population but between people. we are in close proximity to people who do not look like us or worship like we do. we have to get to know these people so that we can live together in peace. that is what this country was founded upon. when i was a kid, we learned about our family is this is a melting pot. but it was not a melting pot back then. not at all. today it is a melting pot. we need to go back to where we were. host: you are obviously a black man, and there are people who

might be -- is that where you start? how do you start? guest: white supremacists are as individual as you are and i am. they come into that ideology from different avenues, maybe because their grandparents were in it. a strong hold, in order to live in that area and joined the local chamber of commerce. things like that. there are reasons why people come into it. basically, i want to sit back and listen to them. i can tell you, no matter how far i go for my country, no

matter how different people are. everyone i have encountered as a human being. everyone wants to be loved and respected. we all want to be heard. we want the same thing for our family. if we can learn to apply those core values when we find ourselves in adversarial situations, i can guarantee that the navigation of the situation will be much more smooth.

we keep hearing about 70 being antiracist or anti-that. fine, you are anti-something, but what are you pro? i am pro-human rather than antiracist. when we say someone is antiracist, you are against that person. i am antiracism. the ideology. the person who might be delivering that message is salvageable. i do not convert anybody. i am able to offer them a better perception. host: what would you say are the ground rules for discussion? we have had people on this program call in and say, i do not talk to family members

anymore because we disagree about politics. guest: something i have noticed is that we can have a tendency to enter a conversation with someone we disagree with or with someone we believe we disagree with. the assumption that the person must be stupid or was born malevolent. i liked -- and how our conversation could be different and what we could achieve. instead, the willingness to listen, understand and above all consider the possibility that we may be wrong. host: people take your calls on our lines by party. if you are republican, you can call (202) 748-8001.

democrats can call (202) 748-8000. independent colors can call (202) 748-8002. what do you think of the role it has played in the dialogue come in partisanship and disagreement among people in this country? guest: it is a double-edged sword when in the wrong hands. if you are cold in your house, i can bring you fire and bring -- he'd your house. so, social media has been a double-edged sword for many people. they are kind of new. we are still trying to figure out how to navigate it. from wielding out-of-control influence to somebody, they talk about livestreaming mass

murderers and stuff like that, but we are always bumping against the freedom of speech. it is a double-edged sword that is a little ahead of us. host: i want to ask about di -- dei. this is a headline that says that congress actually office of diversity and inclusion has been slammed as an ongoing attack. about dei, there has been a lot of discussion about that, critics will say it's a way of putting people that are not qualified into positions just based on their race or gender, etc.? guest: i actually think dei itself can be useful and

productive or it can't. it depends on how it is used. for example, what i think about dei, diversity, i think about a diverse collection of people. when i think about equity, i think about treating people with fairness and understanding. when i think about inclusion, i think about including many different people and many different perspectives. seeing in that light, dei can be a good thing. the problem we are seeing is when people and institutions take it to the extreme and use it to foreclose a real conversation over some real differences. host: daryl, your thoughts on that? the tragic collapse of the bridge in baltimore has renewed calls, the governor, mayor of baltimore, they are black, have come under attack.

what is your reaction to that? guest: people always want to cast blame somewhere especially when it comes to their own responsibility for not assuming responsibility and accountability. my feelings about dei is it is really much-needed. because many americans, older and younger, do not know their history, do not know the things that have gone in this country. you don't find out about them until 40 some years later. when i was in high school, and i went to high school in montgomery co., maryland, one of the best two systems in the country. we go back and forth with fairfax county. we never learned that we had internment of japanese americans. i didn't learn that until college and i was incredulous. they said yes. today it's in the history books.

that's also race riots are not in history books. this is why we need things like dei, so people can understand where people are coming from, why they think a certain way. perhaps you would think that way, too, if you knew what they had gone through. we need inclusivity. we need diversity. we need equity and equality. host: let's take calls from the viewers. jess is first. democrat in indianapolis. caller: doing a fantastic john as always. i really enjoy the program. mr. davis, i've been following your career for a long time. i understand there is possibly a movie about your life being talked about. i think morgan freeman or tyler perry is talking about bringing you to the big screen. i find your life very interesting especially as i, too, am an african-american,

about the same age, and your interactions with the clan is remarkable. i want to get back to dei and history. it is interesting the same people talking about cancel culture and woke. when you asked them what it is, they say i don't know. take germany for instance. german children don't feel guilty about their parents and grandparents participating in the holocaust. they learned about it. they are not having a guilt trip about that. they say let's not repeat that again. we have problems in this country. if we don't confront those problems like slavery, genocide against native americans, how women were regulated to second or third class citizenship, these things need to be addressed. you have one party, the

democrats, want to bring people together. the republican party, i hate to say it, you are not the party of abraham lincoln anymore. you are the party of david duke and the oath keepers. look out for project 2025. host: let's get a response. is there a movie being made about you? guest: there was a documentary made about me called "accidental courtesy" made in 2016 on pbs, streams on amazon. yes, there is a full feature movie in the works. host: do you know who will play you? guest: i don't know. [laughter] host: it is one of those questions, if there was a movie about you, who would play you? i want to ask leticia about this. he mentioned guilt over slavery in the past in this country. guest: there is no doubt that

students and even adults need to be taught and accurate, correct, full history of this country. that includes slavery, includes jim crow, the multitude of injustices that were visited upon people. but it also includes this story of all the progress that we have made. it is a complicated and complex story but in order for us to learn from history in the way that we need to, we need to take it as a whole, take it as it was, with both the good and the bad. guest: and the ugly and the shameful. host: let's talk to marcus in columbus, ohio. caller: love c-span. been listening for a while, i caught the last time that you were on, daryl. happy to catch you again. i did have some clarifications but i do want to say first off,

on behalf of teachers across the nation, there is no teaching white children that they are bad because they are white. that does not exist, that is a complete fabrication. daryl, i do have a question about this melting pot that we are in a melting pot right now. i wonder if you could interrogate some examples like ahmaud arbery, didn't have an opportunity to have a polite discussion with the white man who murdered him because he was black. i think of the palestinian child that was stabbed to death by a man that he had known. a landlord that had known the child for years, but once realizing the child was palestinian, he stabbed that little child to debt. -- death. i have a question whether this is currently a mixing pot with some of these issues currently in front of our face, and if

advocating for civil discourse no matter what might be putting people in danger do not have the privilege of being a famous musician? guest: i don't know that being a musician in my position give me any benefits. my safety is at risk. i get threats every now and then but i do what i feel is necessary to promote this country and bring about stability. i work with another lady, lexi hudson, who just had another book out. we work hard at the prohuman foundation to try and instill that in people. i understand what you are saying, bringing these conversations to the table. it can erect in violence. that is one thing that we try to prevent. while we talked about how to have civil conversations. when i talk with kkk members or neo-nazis, for the most part i

have been successful, gone and come back unscathed. there are times where i had to use violence to protect myself because someone has treated me with violence, so those things happen. but in terms of what is happening in this country and the melting pot, i learned back in 1982, from the head of the american nazi party. the party was founded in arlington, virginia by a guy called linton rockwell, later murdered by one of his men. i had conversations with matt cole. he was telling me about the year, 1942. he told me a lot of lies but this one think you told me was true. every year, the demographics of this country changes. before you had nonwhites down here with the white population up here. this is slowly happening and it is well predicted by the year

2042, this country will be 50/50. 50% white, 50% nonwhite. between 2042 and 2050, it will flip. for the first time, whites will become the minority. there are plenty of white people in this country who don't care, that is evolution, it doesn't bother me. but there is a slice of our population that does care, and those are the ones that i deal with. they tell me, i don't want my grandkids to be brown. this is why we are seeing so many lone wolves walk into black churches or synagogues or to the buffalo grocery store, walmart in el paso, sikh temple and take out these people, because they feel their identity is being erased. you remember the term white flight. a lot of young people never heard of that term because the

color of the american landscape has changed so much, anywhere you go there is already people that don't look like you. white flight is out the window and that bothers people. if you remember 1999, everyone was freaking out about y2k, afraid their computer was not going to work anymore, vcr wasn't going to work, people taking money out of the bank and bearing it -- burying it. 2042 is the y2k of the white supremacist movement. they feel that shift. when you have sat on the throne of power for 400 years, you don't want to get off. you look at our last president, he was there for four years, he still thinks he is there. that is what is happening with this country and the melting pot, the dynamics of people coming together, people freaking out with change. host: you mention the author alexander hudson.

actually she was on the program yesterday. i have a portion to show you. [video clip] >> a close reading of martin luther king junior's letter from the birmingham jail that offered a lot of clues about american civility and why the virtue of civility is good for its own sake. dr. king makes the observation about segregation. he says segregation hurts both parties. it hurts the segregated by giving a false sense of inferiority, and it hurts the segregated or's by giving them a false sense of superiority. it deforms the soul. while i was reading this, i realize the same is true about instability. -- incivility. when they are cruel, malicious, that hurts the party to whom that conduct is directed. that is the humanizing. although we appreciate, it hurts

the party using the conduct, those modes. it is mutually harmful and makes both parties a little less human and less humane. the inverse is also true. hospitality is topical because we are celibate and easter. many of us are going to family dinners. acts of grace, charity, acts of kindness, unmerited kindness, these are mutually beneficial. they make both parties a little more human. host: what do you think of that, daryl. incivility hurts the soul of the people? guest: absolutely. hate is extremely exhausting. it is free when you get rid of it. that burden is lifted. i have seen it. i have seen a glow around those people that have been able to renounce those times that's kinds of things and start a new

life. getting to work with people like that, alexandra, is another bonus. speaking of dr. martin luther king, part of his i have a dream speech, which i will paraphrase, he had a dream that one day the sons of former slaves will sit down at the table with former slave or nurse. that is precisely what i'm doing with these people. host: bill is calling us from northbrook, illinois. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. pro football, and what happened to us with the quarterback from san francisco a few years back, i found was one of the most disturbing things.

people of different races coming to professional events. they were cheering for a team that was multiracial. there was a community. in a very short time, professional football became politicized. most people really didn't object to this. however, remember, there was a black baseball league and a white baseball league, professional, until the 1920's. when jackie robinson came in on the brooklyn dodgers. pro sports has been so important for us as a country to get to know each other. i just wonder what you think about politicizing those points,

where people can learn to know each other. that is my only comment. host: which one of you want to take that, letitia? guest: i can take a stab at it. i hope i'm understanding the question correctly, but the prohuman foundation, we are not really here to decide the substance of any of these underlying issues such as whether sports should be politicized. but we are here to talk about the method and how we deal with people with different opinions, who looked differently from us, act different me from us, and as darrell said, worship differently than us. certainly an argument could be made. i think the caller is talking about colin kaepernick. , cap nick is a human being who sees what he sees.

he has every right to take a knee, if he feels that is appropriate and warranted. regardless, the conversation that we have around that was quite heated. many people were just at each other's throats over whether this was appropriate or not. i think how we handle ourselves in those conversations, how we handle those disagreements is what is the most important thing because we are never going to agree on everything but we will always have to learn to disagree. guest: if i might add into that, talking about colin kaepernick. i have no problem with what he did whatsoever. any time lack people object to something, whether we are marching down the street with able horn or having a sit-in somewhere at a segregated lunch

fountain counter or whether we are having some kind of demonstration, there is always complaints. yet, this man did not have a bullhorn, he was not marching down the street carrying a sign, he simply kneeled down. people say that is not the right place or the right time. well when is the right place or the right time? in other words, we don't have it. it is no different. as a black man, i remember when we had to say the pledge of allegiance in school, sing the star-spangled banner. one nation, indivisible, with justice for all. this is not one nation indivisible. this is a very divided nation. there is not liberty and justice for all, but we need that. that pledges what we aspire to but it is not what we get. if i go to someone's religious institution and i'm not a member

of that faith, and they stand for whatever, communion or whatever, i remain seated. just like when somebody comes to my church, if they are not what i am, they can remain seated. no big deal. it is not that they are protesting or saying somebody is bad. what colin kaepernick did had nothing to do with the veterans, nothing whatsoever. but people said he is unpatriotic, disgraced to veterans who fought for the flyer, etc. but it is racist or a veteran to fly a confederate flag. this country only has one flag. host: nancy is in cedar falls, iowa. caller: hello, daryl. guest: i think i know you. caller: yes you do. i love your music. belated happy birthday. as you know, you are my hero, i

love your message. i, too, am pro human. this is just a vote of confidence, not anything thought-provoking. i thought i would just say hello and give you my sincere vote. thank you, daryl. host: letitia, we he a posting on x, saying the host mentioned less qualified blacks taking white jo ithe dei argument. when in fact the more qualified black occupants were denied opportunities over less qualified whites, hence affirmative action was created. what do you think? guest: i think there are many reasons behind the creation of affirmative action. but i don't see that it is the role of the prohuman foundation to decide that issue, to decide whether or not affirmative

action was a good thing or bad thing. it also really depends on the forum of affirmative action. there are so many different forms of it, they cannot be considered one whole piece. i need to be considered individually. again at the prohuman foundation, we are more about bringing people together and helping them to engage, disagree constructively over these issues such as affirmative action, to be willing to consider a variety of different viewpoints, consider the fact that we might be wrong and be willing to productively speak with others so that we can together, with a better solution to these issues. host: let's talk to brian, republican in east sandwich, massachusetts. caller: thank you for letting me ask a question to mr. davis or ms. kim.

many christians, one of the holiest periods of time was this weekend. in new york city, there was a demonstration at a roman catholic church on saturday evening for pro-palestinian rights or something like this. i found that to be very uncivil, offensive. i am not even of that faith but i thought it was horrible. i wonder if your guests had a comment on it. i will hang up and listen. thanks. host: daryl. guest: i heard about it but did not see it on the tv or the news. people have a right to protest anytime they want, as long as it is civil. i don't know what went on, i heard about something going on in new york.

was it violent, unruly? i don't know. but people have a right to protest whether we like it or not. if you take that right away from somebody else, eventually it will be taken away from you, just like the klan has a right to protest. host: jeff is in bayville, new york. independent. caller: thank you, mimi, for taking my call. thank you, mr. davis, ms. kim. one of the underlying issues that may resolve the issues you are talking about, many others, is the fact that we cannot agree on what is true, what the facts are the way that we use to. not to say anybody is an arbiter of truth, of course they are not, but there is a very pernicious section of social media that you mentioned, mr. davis.

you are not sure how we can get ahead of social media. i would like to suggest that one of the ways we can stop misinformation and disinformation and get closer to the truth is if we basically repeal section 230 of the federal communications act. this following of people's, what they believe are alternative facts, this orwellian type of thinking, is actually reality. it is not 1980 four, is actually here in 2024. i would like to get your opinion on that. thank you for taking my call. guest: i don't know what the section -- 232? i'm not sure what that actually says so i cannot comment on that. forgive me for that. host: let's go to lidell in

rochester, new york. republican. go right ahead. caller: hi. first of all, ok, i am 55. my prime time was in the 1980's. the lady mentioned 1984. to me, i didn't see the incivility going on in america. i didn't see the racism or anything like that. whereas now, i don't see racism at all. as a matter of fact, i would call the classism. i don't want to curse, so let's say buttism. some people are just jerks. that note, if everyone was coo l, we would be living in utopia.

i don't think that will happen. there will always be jerks. guest: i hear what you are saying, but the fact that you do not see it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. i have seen it all my life. 1984 and even now in 2024, i see it. does classism exist? absolutely. all kind of discrimination exist in this country and racism is at the top of the heap. host: steve is a democrat in long island. caller: thanks for having me on, great show. i just wanted to make a comment about a bunch of things but, first of all, i have a lot of friends who are sort of conservative, maga types. they use terms and words, but that is about it.

they are actually happy if they see a black or hispanic person, whatever, having success. i think a lot of it is words. now there is a lot of anti-semitism supposedly. i don't see it, i don't hear it. again, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. again, it is amplified by the internet. but i think a lot of stuff is just vocal. host: the power of words, letitia. what do you think of that? guest: words can be very powerful, both positive and negative. it is important that we use the words that can bring us closer as opposed to those that are going to even widen the gulf

that exist between us. part of that is being willing, as daryl says, to listen to somebody, to treat them like a human being, to treat them with basic civility and respect. despite whatever we may disagree about. host: mike from new york sent us a text saying, daryl, you are a national treasure. any tips for the general public to effly approach people for civil discourse ideology differs vastly from our own? for example, i've up reading some of the propaganda of the extremists which i will not name so that i can know what they think and where to address the myths. guest: absolutely and thank you for the question. i call it walking across the cafeteria. we see so many diverse places, whether colleges or workplaces, but people from all different backgrounds and ideologies may

be working together even on the same project. they might even be sharing the same cubicle. but what happens at 12 noon? they go to the cafeteria for lunch and all of a sudden everything segregates. blacks with blacks, hispanics with hispanics, etc. does that mean that they are racist? not necessarily. people tend to be more come to bowl with familiarity. if you were to walk around and you were to say, go back to where you belong, that is your table. then there is a problem the news to be addressed. but start with the ground roots. leave your comfort table, whether a physical building or doing it virtually, and walk across the cafeteria. call up one of your colleagues on the internet, have lunch over cyberspace or in the physical building. sit at someone else's table where you don't normally sit. you have a lot to learn from them, you have a lot to teach them, and in the process you can develop a new friend.

believe it or not, you and them will both absorb different perspectives. that is where change occurs. it is easy to make a judgment about somebody you don't know but it is hard to judge somebody the old way once you are meeting them face-to-face and having that conversation. host: quick question before we end. eddie in phoenix says thanks for having mr. davis on again. just wanted to askimow far the five core values go. to take it to the extreme, is thera enario in which an adolf hitler might see reason or are some just too far gone? guest: let's understand this. over 200 people have left white supremacist organization that i have been involved with because i applied those five core values they were able to change their perceptions. are there people that are so extreme they will never change? absolutely. but even some of those that have come back to me, though that i

come into physical fights with, have come to me and apologized and some are out. there will be some who apologize -- never apologize, those who will go to their graves being violent and racist. what you do is move them down the list of priorities. don't give up on them, just move them down, and deal with the ones that are willing to sit down and have civil conversations. what you will see is those people change from those civil conversations,.their live become better the hard-core ones also see that and they want better lives, something to open up a little bit. host: cofounders at the prohuman foundation, daryl davis, letitia kim. you can find out more at prohumanfoundation.org. that does it for today's washington journal. thanks to everyone who joined us or watched on the air. we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. have a great day. [captions copyright national

cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> this afternoon, white house senior advancer for energy investment discusses the middle east crisis and threat of conflict between hezbollah and israel. see the brookings institution event live at 1:00 eastern on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. tonight, and all this week, we will show some recent supreme court cases which the court has until the end of the term to roll on. we will talk to reporters on some of the legal issues involved. naval air each night at 9:30 eastern on c-span. here's a look at the schedule. toni we begin with two cases

that could resolve in the ening of federal agencies rulingrocess and there belief to interpret and plummet laws. on tuesday, the earl argument chal the constitutionality of a provision of a trump era 2017 corporate tax law. on wednesde court looks at the gala g of the 2018 ban on bump stocks which modify ms. on thursday, another secondment case this onen whether people under domestic violence protective orders can legally own firearms. friday, two cases on social media content and states ability to regulate conten watch the supreme court oral gunts all this week gettg tonight at 9:30 eastern on c-span. you can also find all of our supreme court coverage on our website, c-span.org. c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what's happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the day's biggest

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so students and families can get the tools they need to be rey for everything. >> comcast supports c-span as a public service along with these television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> next, the u.s. supreme court hears oral arguments in a case to detmine the power of the environmental protection agency to regulate national air quality standard case was originally filed by numeus states and companies following an epa ruling establishing national rules. justices have until june to issue a ruling. this is about 90 minutes chief justice roberts: we will hear argfirst this morning in case 23a349, ohio versus the environmental protection agency, and the consolidated cases. ms. sridharan. ms. sridharan: mr. chief justice, and may it please the court: the epa set out to address the contributions of 23 upwind states to downwind air