tonight and other recent oral arguments all this week at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. you can also find all of our supreme court coverage on her website, c-span.org/supreme court. >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government. we take it to where the policies are debated and decided with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting powered by cable. ♪ >> fcc commissioner brendan carter, top republican on the five-member board talks about the events in a broadband connection during a tech summit

in washington, d.c.. this is about 30 minutes. >> welcome back, everybody. thanks so much for joining us. >> glad to be with you. good to see chip again and most of the rest of you as well. a pretty good crowd to great to be here. >> and the commissioner puts on the hard data climbs up the towers. we have that in common. i will never climb a tower we will never have that in common.

you've been such a great leader on these issues and i want to thank you for the leadership and always coming to the policy summit to talk about us about what's going on at the ftc. you said we are going to spend 45 minutes chatting? >> whatever you want. i thought the best way to do this job is to spend as little time inside the beltway as possible. within a day of first being sworn in, i got on a plane and went to north carolina and i spent a lot of time with the fiber builders and the tower climbers. it was a way to understand the red tape that needs to be cut or the changes that need to take place. when you cut out the layers of lawyers and lobbyists, there are people were building the stuff and you ask them what's slowing them down. you'd be surprised about the types of ideas you hear on the road. >> it's a great place to start because you have my knee -- many

fiber experts in the room. let's talk about what else the ftc could be doing along with the other agencies to improve the availability of broadband everywhere as we are using both public and private >> the playbook when you look at trying to bridge the divide with increased competition, there is a lot you can do but it's a two-part playbook which is more spectrum and more . on some of those, concerned about where we are generally. there are warning signs of us losing speed and momentum particular on spectra matters. we don't a pretty good job the -- it is a difficult task to get that done.

starting to find other countries and availability which is concerning to me. it's not easy with spectrum owned or operated by the department defense since they have aircraft carriers. as a general matter the federal government is not always so efficient user of spectrum. we have to continue to be creative in how we free up more spectrum. i'm concerned about where we are. there is always more we can do on permitting reform. we have this generational opportunity to end the digital divide with this $40 billion initiative if he gets out of commerce. the fcc got pushed to the side. it's fine. no concerns. we want to see americans connected. we are starting to see some warning signs.

i think administration has inserted some policy cuts along the way that are sidetracking the conductivity. i think there is some pressure towards rate regulation and some of the implementations. there has been a very heavy step on the scale for fiber. fiber is a fantastic technology. i have spent a lot of time in the field splicing. we want the lion share of connections to be fiber but around the edges, it's wireless and other new technologies coming online. both because they can get the job done more efficiently from a dollars perspective but they can get it done much more quickly in terms of the time it takes to connect people. again we are starting to see , some concerning signals including up to 12 states by my count that they've indicated they are or may be unable to

connect every location, at least from an underserved perspective with the dollars they been allocated. stepping back, if we were to take this $40 billion initiative and through policy cuts land in a spot where it didn't get the job done i think that would be a , big failure. there is time to course correct. i would encourage states to keep an eye toward the efficient use of dollars. it is not clear when we will have another opportunity possibly ever when you look at the pace of technology change. there is a course correction i would do there. angie: in terms of what you view as the fcc's role but indirectly, ways to turn the dial and help stretch those dollars further and address this issue you raised. com. carr: there is more we can do on the permitting side. section 253 and 233.

we issued guidance on how the regulations should be interpreted. sometimes we have to look at small cell technology but there's more the fcc can do to provide clarity as to how the existing federal law applies when carriers are looking to obtain permits and authorizations to build out. i think there is more in the infrastructure docket we can do that the fcc could do. if we are just spending money to simulate broadband buildup, we are not reforming the permitting law, we are just stepping on the gas on the break at the same time. i've seen to me instances. in wyoming, visiting a broadband builder, they took me to their laydown yard which is their outdoor warehouse where they keep their rolls of conduit and antenna and they were just sitting there. we got the funding for that and acquiring it getting it to that , location but it can't get out into the field because of permitting delays. there is more we can do on that

front as well. angie: one of the things that encompasses broadband readiness checklist to help cities get prepared for the funding. we have seen some states move forward in adopting similar things and have included some of the language we offer them. i want to provide a comment for states and cities who follow. we have seen states like kansas. the kansas broadband office adopted this ready city checklist so cities know what's coming and towns know what's coming and they are ready when the boots hit the ground and folks show up with hardhats. we can deliver more broadband quickly. one of the things the commission recently did in december was address the poll issues that of -- have been pending for a long time. give us your perspective on that action and how you see that fitting into the story. com. carr: i thought i'd live through a lot of tough lytic old debates in d.c.

title ii through multiple iterations. gone through digital discrimination but i've never seen a fight in d.c. quite like the pole attachment. you put two or three dollars on the line here or there and it's a big deal. that was an interesting fight. we two additional ideas we could do. i have no idea on timing but general matter we are trying to make it easier, faster, more more cost-effective for broadband builders to push out , to edge out into rural and underserved areas. stepping back, it's an interesting point in time when when it comes to conductivity -- connectivity because we are truly living this idea of convergence. convergence means we can now effectively substitute which can be hundreds of megabits per second to wireless connection to this new generation of low-earth

orbit satellites providing very high-speed broadband. something we will vote on services that go direct from , satellites right to your smart phone. we are seeing all of this convergence where consumers can substitute in many ways one type of broadband technology for another we've been looking to realize for a long time but we are living it now. i think that needs to help inform our policymaking at the fcc because we are historically a siloed operation. cables this way, mobile wireless this way. it's a challenge to break out of this but we have to see how those silos have broken down and how do we make sure we have a level playing field. that includes that everyone gets a fair shot at attaching. angie: most conferences i've attended no one was to talk about pole attachment, but this conference is a little different. they try to figure it out. what has surprised me in my

career but probably should not have surprised me is pole attachment reform back in the 2010-2011 timeframe. folks are like if you just make sure the rate between cable and telco attachment even if use , different formulas but they are about the same that's going , to solve the problem. that's a really good idea so let's solve that problem. the problem shifts to other things. there is never a want of work but it's so important right now because we have a significant investment being made between the private and public sectors. the need to get the job done once and be done, especially to the extent that so much of this needs fiber conductivity. we appreciate the hard work on it. i was recently reading reading the washington post an opinion piece. not by an opinion writer but i

was surprised this tournament move to more exurban washington. rappahannock county. he was describing how through funding the federal government has provided, rappahannock county is getting broadband. they are stringing fiber. in the middle of the story, there is a dispute between the utility and the fiber provider. these things are ongoing all of the time. people on the ground of the ones that are having to look at the rules and there are fights over who has to do what and the timing. it matters. it matters what you say in the agency says and encouraging the deployment so thank you for your hard work. there is probably a lot more to be done. com. carr: very much look forward to it. angie: but only us, right, and the people in this room. the u.s. and its global leadership in wireless, right

now, we have a significant problem in that the fcc does not have spectrum authority. you still have some tools in your toolkit to advance the availability of spectrum. give us your perspective on the work you are doing. particular in the mid band spectrum. how you view the importance of the work to deliver more spectrum availability to deliver broadband. com. carr: our special option authority which is in one of the main mechanisms we use to use -- to your point, there is more the fcc can do. a couple of years ago i put out a spectrum calendar that identified which spectrum can move by which particular year. even though we don't have authority, the fcc could still step up with its own spectrum calendar that makes clear to

lawmakers that if we had option authority again, here is what we would move. i think he would provide additional motivation for congress. when we tell congress very clearly what we do if we had authority, potentially, they received the message it is not that serious. it is. globally, we are about 400 megahertz behind other countries when it comes to licensed mid and spectrum. china in particular, we're close to 700 megahertz behind. on the current trajectory that gaps will widen. that's a problem because american leadership in wireless is part and parcel of our geopolitical leadership. when we free up spectrum and move airways into the commercial market place, capital flows here , standard-setting bodies look to the u.s. to make sure the products are going to work for our markets. it gives us a lot of influence globally. the opposite is true. if we start to recede on

spectrum and -- it only emboldens china and adversaries that don't share our values or goals for particular spectrum band. we have got to get moving on spectrum again. angie: one of the bands that encompass the numbers is the 12 gigahertz band. that has been two and the commission is look -- been teed up and you are working hard on that. how do you see that playing out? you wanted to follow where the engineering goes. what are you hearing on that and what are your expectations? that does not require the fcc spectrum authority. i think it's right -- ripe for a potential decision. com. carr: my guide star continues to be the same. i'm open to find a win-win. we can do more without causing harmful interference, we should. stepping back, job one of the fcc on spectrum should be to identify large swaths of

spectrum we can open up for exclusive license views. step two, you have to make it fast and you have to look for creative ways. i have a den of others spectrum bands, including one called uni2 c which is underutilized because of the technologies that apply to it. there is one that's effectively a wi-fi band but it's underutilized because of the listen before talk technology and applies to it. job one in my view is licensed mid band spectrum. angie: give us your perspective on the ability of satellite to help us meet the needs of american consumers no matter where they are? com. carr: i'm excited about this. if you look at what start link is doing and what kuyper is planning to do come i think it will be a phenomenal complement

our terrestrial networks. not that everybody will get on this generation of satellites but in this part is to serve parts of the country in areas where a second competitor can be introduced, those technologies are performing phenomenally. we've had relatively high-speed service to a standalone dish that you can wi-fi off of like start link and we've had -- starlink and we've had direct to hand side satellite technologies that are low bandwidth. we are seeing that blend of the two where we have new technologies that can go straight from satellite to your handset with something that's approaching broadband speed. i think it's exciting to see what this entire new generation of leo systems will do. angie: that is exciting. i rented to folks that are really working on this. we are not the satellite bureau.

wait, sorry. i got that wrong. it is exciting to see these new technologies that are coming into place. there are things we never really imagined. i have been around long enough to member when it was voice satellite. now the fact that people will be able to use their broadband no matter where they are. com. carr: china is looking to stand up its own version of the global low earth satellite system called star net. it's replicating u.s. technology. china may have other sorts of satellites as well. we have to be cognizant of policymakers moving fast so star link, kuyper and others can get up and running and working because once china gets its own version of that, maybe 2028, there are some pretty interesting applications to think about when china can take its existing belton road

relationships -- belt and road relationships and infrastructure and pair that with internet service that can be anywhere from space, including the authoritarian filters they have been known to put on the types of technologies. as a country, you look at the capacity of china in the not-too-distant future, we should be thinking through what that means and is there more or different actions we should take with that in mind. angie: you have been forward thinking on these types of issues. what the fcc can do with what has available to it. any further recommendations about what the space bureau and the chairwoman's office can be working on to help internationally to provide service. com. carr: i challenge the bureau is working on which is part of the motivation to stand this up is to continue. we are seeing a rapid acceleration in new satellites

going up and more access request so we have to continue to move with something approaching the pace of technology change in that sector. angie: that same opinion piece referred to a family that purchased the star link service. there was a waiting list. they had an wait a number of months, six months or so to get the service. we do need more options. we love competition at encompass and we think that's a great thing. whatever we can do to speed that up and let us know how we can be helpful in your efforts to make sure the u.s. is in front and all of this and we have competitive options for consumers. we have a lot of folks in the room that are working every day with those who are in process of building the networks and the workforce and training issues that go along with that. this has been a big part of your agenda at the fcc.

tell us what you are seeing in the marketplace and where the fcc's actions may be able to further improve workforce development and training? com. carr: you are right. i talked about spectrum and infrastructure. the third leg is workforce. a couple of years ago we realized we needed to bolster america's skilled workforce, both tower climbers, fiber splicers. it's particularly critical now that we have these that are dollars about to hit the ground. the demand will go through the roof. there is lots of ways you can do it. i've worked a lot with community colleges colleges around the country to stand up tower climbing which is a great program. some companies want to do it in-house. the department of labor has an apprenticeship program. there is a lot of interesting job opportunities right now and we need to continue to keep an eye on as the programs it going. angie: the fiber connectivity as well, there is a lot of

opportunity for fiber splicers and those who maintain the network. it will be key to make sure there are opportunities for training all over the country as we see more fiber being built in addition to fixed wireless and now satellite. those are good paying jobs, right? technology jobs. com. carr: the thing that's interesting about tower climbing is you can go from having no skills and you go from an eight to 12 a class that teaches you a mix of physical skills and technical skills. you can start at $55,000, $60,000 with no skills. no pun intended but there's upward mobility in the job and you can easily make six figures. they then own their own tower business. it's more than just a job, it's a good paying career. angie: thank you for that. your leadership on this issue i think is important.

you are one of the first commissioners that put a spotlight on this and it's because it's more critical as we have more public-sector dollars going into the employment agenda so thank you for that. , you mentioned china already but i want to come back to that. you said you wanted to give your perspective on the new bill. the chinese communist party and how they can use communications to hurt our national security, give us your perspective on that and what's the latest going on? com. carr: on tiktok, i've been reticent to talk about it. to go in front of people and talk about it. this is one that a lot of people in a town like d.c. where feels everyone goes to the corner all the time, we find reasons not to get together in one idea we're seeing something happen potentially this week that's different from that. we've got a broad coalition on

the house side of republicans and democrats alike that of just gotten on a bill introduced in the last hour or so that will ban tiktok or require it to genuinely divest its ties from the ccp. this is not just another messaging bill. this is a bill that leadership is already said we will get a vote in committee this thursday. with this broad coalition, republicans and democrats and the freedom caucus to democrats on the left, together on this bill, it's going to go to the house energy commerce committee where chair rogers is doing a phenomenal job. a lot of people remember last year, as hearings go there was a , blockbuster hearing with the tiktok ceo testifying. this is sort of the other shoe dropping from this hearing. i'm hopeful this is a bill that will get across the finish line because it's clear through

tiktok's own conduct that it is beholden to the ccp and presents a serious threat to u.s. national security, both from an espionage perspective as we've seen, spying on the locations of specific americans and misled u.s. officials repeatedly about the scope of data accessed by personnel inside beijing. it's a real threat that we need to move on now. i'm pleased to see this bipartisan legislation moving through the house commerce but having been worked up through the china select committee which is chaired by republican mike gallagher. it was authored by kristin namor theo illinois. this is a bill that will definitively resolve the tiktok threat. angie: you set a vote this thursday in the committee and then expectations it could move quickly the house? com. carr: i would hope so. when you have a high number of republicans and democrats on

board together on a big issue it's very rare in washington so , i hope it moves quickly at the committee vote. this is an issue where a lot of the strong leaders have been democrats. you look at the chair of the senate intel committee, mark warner has said all the confidential briefings he get gets it is tiktok that scares the dickens out of him. it's a very real threat and it's not simply about tiktok as an entity that has some ties back to china. there are plus factors with tiktok that we know from its own conduct that there is a serious problem. that is what you see everyone from the fbi, odni, cia director, the national security apparatus raising the alarm on it. this is a bill that has an appropriate response to all of that. angie: in terms of the fcc's jurisdiction over communications networks and the national security issues there, give us

your perspective on how we ensure that our communications network stays safe and secure. com. carr: with tiktok in particular, the main focus of action will be congress other than the sec that have extensive authorities. the way i have approached it is when you look at national security threats generally we , have some expertise when it comes to data flows and entities that are beholden to the ccp. we moved up and took action on the carrier level. we took action on china mobile, china unicom and other carriers. now we need to get a win at the application level because secure devices, secure superior networks don't mean enough unless we also go to the applications that are running. tiktok is an application that is going through a comprehensive national security process and was identified as like huawei as

presenting a threat that can't otherwise be mitigated. that is why we need to take action at the government level on tiktok itself. india banned tiktok back in 2020. i was there a week ago meeting with officials. if anything, it's overdue. it's an appropriate time to take action. angie: are there other kinds of applications that have you concerned in addition to tiktok? com. carr: i think there are others. once you take action on tiktok because it is a clear track record you can look right and say what is like tiktok. first, we did huawei and we did the te china mobile and china , telecom. it gives you a place to understand the type of threat and to take action. yes, we need to look more broadly and comprehensively at all threats from entities that are not just tied to china but tied to the ccp. that broader conversation continues to take place in the near term.

get a win on tiktok and then we can go after one's that look similar from a security risk perspective. angie: one of the things that encompass has been working on with member companies is the national proceeding where the commissioner is looking at significant changes to ownership review and different time frames in which licensees may need to come back to the fcc to go over ownership review. beyond just merger agreements where the fcc is looking at ownership structure. they just did a big data collection. any thoughts about how the commission might be able to use that rulemaking process to do further reviews of international authorizations? com. carr: it's interesting what we learned from that proceeding. it's getting increasingly

complicated. who is leasing it? who is owning it? who is using it to transmit data? it's right for the fcc to do a refresh to make sure we are getting the right information and how undersea cables are being used. i'm open minded about a refresh to make sure that as the relationships get more complex we are not missing a security threat. angie: that's really helpful and thank you. great to sit down and go through these issues of great importance to the industry and to your office. you have such great staff that's always open and available to answer questions. i hope you have enjoyed your time with us. com. carr: thanks a lot. i really enjoyed it. thanks. [applause]

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