carried by a wide margin in the last presidential election and the one preceding that. how they vote will be important to watch. people like tester, brown, senator joe manchin, disinterest democrat from -- the centrist democrat from west virginia that is retiring as all dismissed the charges in the past and said the senate should not spend time reviewing these articles of impeachment. republicans have many -- have been eager to talk about mayorkas and border policies because it is an important issue for them in that 2024 election. it is something voters will hear about in the coming months. it seems senators have come to the conclusion that you can dismiss the charges at the onset and it won't h>> "washington jo"

continues. host: we are joined by author, activist, and democratic presidential candidate marianne williamson. you are out of the race and you are back in the race. what motivated that. guest: i had done very poorly on electoral basis. what you do is you say i am out. then i realize there is bigger than the horse race, and that is the conversation the american people need to be having with ourselves. it is not just about the political establishment in their power games, it is where america is today and the american people

having a serious conversation about where we need to go. the political establishment is not the conduit for the deepest conversations. i jumped back in because i knew the conversation was not over. host: what question should the american people be asking ourselves? guest: who is running the country. we are not a government of the people, by the people, for the people. he said that the people who had died at gettysburg so that the government would not perish from the earth. it is the government perishing now. we are a government by the corporations. most political conversations among the establishment does more to obvious gate that fact than to provide solutions. that is a conversation i think the american people not only want to have but are ready to have and there's a lot of disgust for what is going on in this town.

in some cases for a good reason. i have found the conversation continuing since president biden has already got the delegates. it is like there are two worlds. there is the political media industrial complex and then there is the world of the american voter and i think the world of the american voter is one in which you see a lot of decency, a lot of intelligence, a lot of interest in having a deeper conversation, and then there is this other establishment, and i think a lot of people in washington underestimate the level of discussed and i think that discussed -- i think that disgust will be expressed on election day. host: you've heard from people who save president biden does have the delegates why not support him and go that way. guest: i am talking about the things i believe the democratic

party needs to stand for in order to win. president franklin roosevelt said we would not have to worry about a fascist takeover in this country as long as democracy delivers on its promises. the democrats will not win in 2024. they will not win by scaring people about donald trump. this will be more about 2016 than 2020. we need to stand for the traditional pillars of the democratic party, which is advocacy for the working people of the united states. that would meet universal health care. don't tell me you believe in health care as a right and not just a privilege when you have 75 billion -- subsidized childcare, tuition free collagen textbooks, all of which is considered -- tuition free college and textbooks come all

of which are considered moderate in other countries. the president wants to ameliorate the stress of people. democratic establishment leadership will only go so far. they will not go past the line at which they challenge the underlying goals of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, chemical companies. agricultural companies. the democrats will take on the done lobby. defense contractors. that is the corruption of washington and people know it. host: you have a chance to express these thoughts directly to the president, his advisors, the democratic committee. guest: they clearly know i am saying them or they would not have worked so hard to suppress my candidacy. host: how so? guest: there is a political media industrial complex. i appreciate that you have beyond.

i was completely blocked this year on cnn, on an msnbc, kicked off ballots. if you are qualified candidate and you are running and you are never on cnn are on msnbc, people do not know they're out there. i'm not saying they do that and republicans don't, but that is how washington works. host: marianne williamson is with us for this conversation. if you want to ask her questions, (202) 748-8001, (202) 748-8000 free democrats. if you want to text us your thoughts come it is (202) 748-8003. there are a host of poles about people still wondering if they will support -- there are a host of polls about people still wondering if they will support joe biden. guest: i would say the message

is to the president. offer more. you will win by offering people a way to materially improve their lives. we have 39 percent of americans who regularly skip meals in order to pay their rent. we have half of all bankruptcies are medical bankruptcies. we have a level of economic despair that neither party is addressing. the real danger for democrats is donald trump pretends to. we have to offer people more. that is why i have an economic bill of rights with free college and textbooks, guaranteed living wage. we've not even raise the minimum wage. wen yu department of children and youth. we need to make -- we need an apartment of children and youth. we need an adjustment from a dirty economy to a clean economy. i think it is time to end

america's war on drugs. we need the political establishment to realize the democratic party is bleeding voters. we are bleeding young voters, black voters, asian voters. in some cases latino voters. the democrats will not win by closing our eyes and crossing our fingers and raising money for tv ads. we will win offering the american people the policies that will actually improve their lives. host: is there way for this current president to sell that message before november? guest: sure there is if he decides those of the policies he wants to support. if he wants to support different policies he needs to say so. right now there's not really campaigning, that is just fundraising. that is a strategy. i do not fear as a democrat votes for trump. i fear people staying home. that is the risk to democrats.

i also believe third-party candidacies, particularly robert kennedy, will be much more of a factor than the elite might be thinking right now. they have to get busy and offer the american people a lot more. host: why is that on rfk junior? guest: i think the elite in this town underestimate the normandy of a vote that expresses the hell with both of them. there is valid rage out there. 70% of the american people say they live with chronic economic -- chronic economic anxiety. a majority of americans cannot afford to absorb a $1000 unexpected expenditure. what we have in this country is 20% of americans for whom the economy is working fine and that is to be celebrated. 20%, that is like all of the blood in the body being in your right arm. money has to circulate.

economic opportunity has to circulate, just like blood has to circulate in the body. there is a failure to recognize the level of suffering going on. when you have 40% of your people giving meals, you know the big thing in poor neighborhoods in america today? selling your blood plasma in order to survive. we have over one million people, 1.3 million people who ration their insulin. i have spoken to people who are fighting -- you are deciding between their insulin and their rent. i have had people tell me -- one woman was saying if i spend money on the insulin, we will lose the apartment. we will live in the car but my kids will still have a mother. what is going on? there are so many people in l.a., in new york, in washington, they need to get out more.

unfortunately donald trump taps into a lot of the rage that is out there. host: abided administration has touted lowering the cost of insulin. guest: a lot of that started with trump. there are people under 65 who are rationing their insulin. to say to people over 65 -- it should be free or almost free. how much the pharmaceutical companies actually pay? this is what happens with an economic system that sees human despair as more than a prophet sentiment. for millions of americans $35 a month is still a lot. also a lot of people under 65 have diabetes as well. host: our first call comes from maryland. this is mag to on the democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. speaking of disgust the way

money is flowing, i am disgusted with president biden's approach the conflict in israel and gaza and i would like to hear comments in regards to that because it is turning me into a single issue voter and i cannot condone the way the president has handled the conflict therefore i cannot vote for him but neither can i vote for trump. guest: neither of the major candidates -- trump on israel is get it over with quickly and robert kennedy as well. president biden did show meaningful oral clarity on october 7. on october 8 is where the problem occurred. he said i would meet with jewish-american leaders, and i remember thinking in the afternoon you should meet with with palestinian leaders. it is very clear to the president that he needs to act on it. we need a cease fire.

your one of millions of americans for whom this is important. we need a cease fire, we need a release of the hostages, we need a plan for a two state solution. the president, there is some inability in that administration to say no to benjamin netanyahu in the way that no needs to be said. some people say they are a sovereign nation, but what we can say no to is a shipment of more arms or money. i am sure the president realizes the american people are not happy about this. the options for the general election -- there is no major candidate at this point other than myself, although the president already has his votes. i think the pressure needs to be staying on and it is not just people in the united states but people around the world for whom

the situation is intolerable. host: renee is next in florida. democratic line. caller: i had a question. thank you for everything you do, for c-span. marianne, i would like to know, who is funding your campaign, and don't say small money people. there is somebody big donating to your campaign just like robert f kennedy, jr., because to be a spoiler, you're in here to be a spoiler when we are all fighting for our democracy. i feel the same way about palestine. my heart is aching for those people and something needs to be done. there are certain ways to go about it.

who is funding this campaign? guest: you say don't say small donors but that is the truth and all you have to do is check the fec filings. robert kennedy has a super pac, those guys have super pac's, talk about big donor funding look at joe biden's campaign. there are no super pac's, there are no super donations. i myself went my campaign quite a bit -- i myself lent my campaign quite a bit. the truth is small donations and my own donations. i do not know few missed seventh grade or what, but this is a primary. you cannot be a spoiler in a primary. the concocted narrative issues a spoiler. host: what goes through your mind when you hear spoiler? guest: the d&c is good at pr? -- the dnc is good at pr.

you cannot be a spoiler and a primary. it goes along with we are not having a primary because you do not have a primary with a sitting president. i remember lyndon johnson was primary by eugene mccarthy and bobby kennedy. in my day we did not call that weird, we call that democracy. i think the democrats and the president himself would be a far better situation today had they not suppressed a robust primary. we have all of these republicans talking about their ideas there was just quiet in the field apart from myself, dean phillips, and others. a primary is an important thing in a primary candidate is not a spoiler. host: this is steve for marianne williamson in pennsylvania. caller: i disagree wholeheartedly on the

cease-fire. there are two ways to end the war. either hamas can surrender or they should be eradicated. a cease fire will only continue to aggravate israel and innocent people that live in israel along with the innocent arabs that live in israel. the democrats have to stop the cease-fire and dividing this country. thank you. host: steve in pennsylvania. guest: i honor your belief, needs to be eradicated. the issue is how you go about doing something like this. the humanitarian crisis is intolerable. the back they cannot get food, the fact they are on the brink of starvation, what is happening to these children. i am jewish and i am a supporter of israel. the united states. our mission statement is all men are created equal. that is not just been americans. our house -- our highest ally

should be america itself. for every hamas person they kill they are creating 10 more. we need to move on to a consortium led by arab powers for the architect of the two state solution. this is not working and on a humanitarian level this is unacceptable. i understand the fury but that does not mean i agree with the policy. host: there are groups that label you as a cease fire candidate. what you think about that distinction? guest: i am a cease fire candidate. i believe a cease fire is necessary with the release of the hostages and with the architecture for a two state solution which is everything the president says he supports. we just need to go there faster. you cannot go faster if you're continuing to support the policy as it now exists.

i agree with senator schumer in his speech who said benjamin netanyahu is a problematic figure and we should not be supporting him. host: there is reporting in new york times that in new jersey there is an effort in their primary to put an uncommitted vote on the ballot. is this a long-term problem? guest: when the uncommitted project began in michigan and i had a lot of suspect -- i had a lot of respect for it in michigan because michigan has a large muslim population. i thought it was an exercise in democracy in a state like michigan, but in some of the states i do not see what it is doing. if you have a cease fire candidate and you support someone who could pick up the phone and say to benjamin netanyahu no more, -- host: charles is in tennessee. caller: my name is charles in memphis. i would like to ask her -- there

is no republican that will vote for you or independent. you're only going to get democrats. you're going to take away from joe biden. that is what you are doing. you are an undercover republican. thank you and goodbye. guest: i do not know what to say. president biden has won the nomination. i will not be on the ballot. when i'm talking about are the things i believe would help this president win. the democrats used to say the republicans had to fall in love -- the republicans fell in line and the democrats fall in love. today is the reverse. the republicans fall in love and the democrats fall in line. how dare you suggest anything other than what the establishment said we are going to do. do not shoot the messenger. you are right, nobody will vote

for me because i will not be on the ballot in november. host: how do you gauge success for what you're trying to do? guest: having an honest conversation about what is real and what is happening. you have a lot of this anticorporate conversation on the right as well as on the left. you have josh hawley who says we need to repeal citizens united. we have j.d. vance joining the white house in getting rid of some of these corporate tax cuts. people are figuring it out. the real dichotomy is not between the left on the right. it is between the powerful and the powerless, between those who have access to capital versus those who are struggling to get by. in giving this message, i am giving the message is a traditional democrat message. i believe it is the one that would win for the democrats in 2024.

i think in his heart the president would understand that. host: to achieve those changes, how would you change the funding side of the federal budget? guest: right now they are planning $1.5 trillion defense budget. we have the 2017 tax cuts, president trump's tax cuts, the crown jewel of his economic policy. $2 trillion whenever paper itself. $.83 of every dollar went to the highest earners and richest corporations. that should be repealed. the democrat should have repealed it. put back in the middle tax class -- the middle-class tax cuts. these corporate subsidies to companies already making billions of dollars in profit, that we should have fair taxation and get rid of those, and i think we should have a wealth tax. if someone has $50 million in the bank and you say we would like an additional 2%, they will not even feel it. if you say to those who want $1

billion, you want an additional million dollars, their great-grandchildren will not feel it -- you want an additional 1%, their great-grandchildren will not even feel it. why do we protect the rich and make it so hard for the average person to survive. host: you said you're not on the ballot. the caller said no independents or republicans will vote for you. who is supporting you? guest: when i show up, i was in new york and connecticut last week, chicago, arizona, will be in oregon, i will be in maryland, i will be in new mexico. i start by saying i'm not delusional. the president has the delegates. this is a conversation. when you have a conversation in the middle of a presidential campaign it is a platform like no other. when people vote for me, i've got about 400,000 primary votes.

that is tiny if you are about winning the nomination, but it is not tiny if you are talking about a close election in november. i hope somebody will hear what i am having to say. we need to stand up for the economic needs of the average americans in a way we currently are not. we need an economic u-turn in this country, we need an economic bill of rights, we need a department of peace, we need to wage peace as much as we wage war. president roosevelt said we need to do more than end war, we need to end the beginnings of wars. right now we play wargames. we should play peace games. we should have an army of peace builders like we have armies of military personnel. people understand that and the risk to america's children. we should have a department of children and youth.

to have the america we want in 20 years will need to move way more resources into the lives of our children. i have meant elementary school principals who tell me they have children in their schools on suicide watch. we have public schools where they have trauma rooms. why is childhood itself such a trauma for so many american children? these are the deeper conversations. we need to end the war on drugs which would also help us at the southern border. we need to treat root causes. we need to ask ourselves why we have a higher level of chronic illness in this country than other advanced democracies. why do we have carcinogens in our foods? chemicals in our pesticides? live so many of our agencies been captured by corporate forces? these are the deeper conversations the american people are ready to have it i'm grateful for the opportunity to be having. host: when it comes to drugs are

you talking about declassification or legalization or decriminalization? guest: you start with decriminalization. in oregon they decriminalized but they did not do it wisely. then they ended up re-criminalizing. it needs to be all of these changes done wisely and responsibly. president richard nixon initiated the war on drugs in 1971. he did so same drugs were america's public enemy number one. he knew they were not. we have spent $1 trillion. the drug addiction problem in the united states has not been solved, it has been exacerbated. when i was in college there were 300,000 people in prison in the united states. today it is 2.3 million. 46% of federal prisoners are nonviolent drug offenders.

we still spent $100 billion a year for a fraction of that we could be funding awe should tren like they do in portugal, like a health issue, help people get sober. we need a recovery. this will also help us at the southern border which will put a serious dent into the power of the cartels. they thrive on the black market and it will allow us to have more resources for the drugs that we need to worry about, which is fentanyl. host: this is zach in baltimore. independent line. caller: good morning. i did not skip civics in seventh grade so i am thrilled to have primary challengers against the incumbent who is i think, a genocide supporter and has lost a lot of my support. i would encourage you to revise your stance on israel. i think saying that release the

hostages is equivalent to saying all lives matter in response to saying black lives matter. guest: i understand that you think that. but i think to say to black people all lives matter is a minimizing of their movement. i do not see that in terms of releasing the hostages at all. someone told me they heard their minister say whose tears am i supposed to ignore? he has rarely people are not netanyahu anymore than the palestinian people are not hamas. any conversation on this issue which absolves the right of one people at the a set -- at the expense of the other is -- that is not a stance that leads to a sustainable future for the israelis or palestinians. host: we have a vieweraying you have grand ideas how to fix

america unfortunately she cannot do these things unilaterally. with the stagnation in congress how can these things -- these ideas going to get done? guest: the president does not have a magic wand and we do not want him to have one. anytime anybody is running for president they are saying this is my grand vision. the most important job of the presidency is not administrative but moral leadership. i do not care who you are, if you are donald trump or joe biden or marianne williamson or anyone, if you become president you hope that your party will have the house and the senate. if they do that is more that you can do. and if you do not you seek to negotiate. president biden, given the stances of kyrsten sinema and joe manchin and even with other democrats in power. no matter he the present to the president is you will have to deal with the congress and supreme court that you have.

host: john, illinois. democrats line. you are up. caller: as far as who still supports marianne, my girlfriend and i were proud to vote for you in the illinois primary so i just wanted to say that. but we agree with everything that you've said policy wise. but as far as zach i think, your stance on israel could use a little tweaking. i have the belief that just getting rid of netanyahu is not enough. it is like changing the leadership is like trying to find a good slaveowner, the whole system is kind of bad. i do not see how the two sides, i think it would be better off without that. guest: people talk about a one state solution, who runs a? you're going to have israeli leaders next to hamas, what are

we talking about? people on the far right and left say one state. the far left our deal of -- delegitimizing the people for israel and the people on the writer saying that we will run everything. host: one of the issues that both candidates have talked about is border security, what is your approach? guest: i agree with president biden that the bipartisan they bill of $8 billion was a good one, it was a compromise. it would have allowed for more judges and the things that we need. as we know, the republicans were happy until donald trump said do not do it. the reason he said kill the bill is that he knew it would work and he did not want to give joe biden a win on election -- on an election year. host: john from new york. hello. caller: marianne williamson, you

have called for freeing of the hostages, can you be clear, are you calling for freeing of all 2 million hostages? guest: negotiations are going on as you and i are speaking. qatar and the united states, and various deals have been turned down. and one of them was the hostages for hundreds of israeli prisoners. and they are saying anyone who is a prisoner in an israeli jail is a hostage. i want justice for all. i think that the united states policy should be equally robust commitment to the peace and the security on -- and the sovereignty of both people. host: from john, another john in

pennsylvania. the publican line. caller: i am a republican and marine veteran. i am sick of my party and i do not like the democratic party. money and the powerful run this country. so all of the great ideals will not go anywhere because the powerful and the special interests on the country. on the one hand you agree with me and then a majority of republicans and democrats want medicare for all. the majority want tuition free college and tech school. i am sure that the abolitionist thought it was all locked up and

it will never happen in the early labor organizers said it will never happen. and i am sure that they were people working for civil rights in the desegregation of the american south who said it would never happen. what we are experiencing is the latest iteration of the kind of struggle that we have had from the very beginning. between those who really do wish to see an enlargement of the franchise of genuine democracy and rebirth as lincoln would call it versus those who put their property interests and rights before human rights and social justice and real democracy. you die, i think like a majority of americans, they realize that this is a struggle. we cannot afford to be cynical. cynicism becomes an excuse for not helping. and people spiral down into nihilism, anger and cynicism

which is a danger in this country. justice will prevail as will democracy if we stay on this and we keep pushing. other generations rose to the challenge when anti-democratic forces were suppressing real democracy and the people of the united states. other generations rose to the challenge and prevailed and i agree that -- and i think we will too. host: one of the things that is attached to you is a spiritual advisor or spiritualist. guest: i write books about universal spiritual themes, pretty traditional themes. a spiritualist is someone who has the table knocking up and down and all that kind of stuff. it is kind of like self-help author, just words that are married just made up narratives to diminish what i have to say. host: there is a perception and

on the reality, what is the difference? guest: a.m. -- i am a woman who has had a serious career for years with the selling books. they are not self-help. i have two who are political books and the other one, "the politics of love" was the best campaign book someone had ever read. so i founded many nonprofit organizations and an organization that has served 16 million meals with homebound people with aids and other critical illnesses. i have funded nonprofits and the politics of personal destruction and the false narratives and the smears, unfortunately the political media industrial complex of ours works. host: what has changed you the strongest politically as far as people who have shaped you or things that have shaped, how

would you describe that? guest: martin luther king and mahatma gandhi. gandhi articulated political nonviolence, the idea that there is an inner light within every man, woman and child and he got that in many ways from the quakers in the united states and he said there is something within us that can heal all economic and social relationships as well as personal relationships. we have a political system stuck in the 1990's somewhere. it is a 20th century mindset, the world is a machine and if you do not like the pieces of the machine you tweak them. you are always looking at sit -- symptoms but not ruth -- root cause. the 20th century is more holistic. young people, and not even 20th century people they do not think in those terms. i talk about root causes and in every other aspect of american life we get that now.

it is the 21st century. it is only the political system that stayed in the 20th. it is causing a kind of unsustainable rumbling because there is too much suffering and it is going to blow. it is going to blow either in the direction of greater democracy and justice or a great rebirth of the united states for i fear that it will blow in the direction of authoritarianism and chaos. so those on the side of the broadening of the democratic franchise are the ones that will carry the day. host: david, new york. independent line. caller: hello. i am an independent and the reason i am is because i believe that people need to not toe the line and follow what particular political party controls them.

and they say this is a truth and everyone needs to follow. one of the things that puzzles me and i have been really trying to understand this is january 6. one of the big things about january 6 is that donald trump was the one that caused it. he incited the riots. the insurrection. and the one question that i have is i cannot get past why and what was his motive, why would he do this? what happened with january 6, they were going to have a senator and congressman that would contest the election. so, why would donald trump want to stop that? and i cannot get anyone to explain to me why he would want to do that beside saying his ego? he has a huge ego. and that is why he did it. host: david in new york. do you want to elaborate on that. guest: trump's ego, he did not

want to give it up. he promulgated a terrible live. you know, we had government officials including republican government officials all over this country who kept saying over and over again we have checked, the election was fair. and president trump tries the big lie technique and you just say something over and over again. that is what makes him such a dangerous man. host: dave, virginia. independent line. you are next up. caller: thank you for taking my call. the biggest problem in this country is a lack of civic education. standing on the january 6 thing. the people that were so engler -- angry that they want to storm the capital, they should go to their elective representatives and harass them until they listen to what you have to say.

if they are not giving you satisfaction, put up a campaign against them and get people to air their grievances to a larger crowd and get the guy thrown out and if not, you have to advocate for your position. that is a representative system, do not just overthrow something. and i would like to know your feelings about the balanced budget amendment and what we can do to that point. we cannot spend more than we taycan. nobody can. nobody can run a household that way or sustain a business that way. how can we sustain a country that way? what are our grandchildren supposed to do with this? guest: two different things in the first one has to do with the fact we are a nation of laws and we cannot agree with you more. i also understand that this is in no way to excuse happen on january 6 and i do understand that there is a lot of frustration and anger in the

united states. regarding being told just pressure your elected representatives. first of all i will give you an example in running for president. the system is rigged in such a way on the presidential level, only those with access to huge amounts of money can get anywhere near the pinnacle of power. the party elite, the corporate elite does so much even down to the congressional level to suppress what are really just off and the voices of the people, that people feel like i have tried electorally, and look what they do and look what they did to bernie. certainly i understand. so the political system as well needs to stop being a place where so many times in policy after policy our elected representatives do more to serve the profit-making goals of their donors than they do the safety, health and well-being of their own constituents.

these corporate forces and power have turned washington into a system of legalized bribery. violence is not the answer and january 6 is not the answer and we must remain loyal to the idea that we have a system of laws and we need to simply make it better. as far as the balanced-budget amendment i do not agree with that. there are many situations where deficit spending is not a problem and austerity turns out to be a problem. host: there was a viewer, robert douglas who posted this on twitterg the last time you are on the show i was able to to eliminate political partirk in the u.s., you remember the call. you said it was the job of congress but i think as president you would have significant influence in that effort. guest: first of all if we would have a parliament parliamentarian system it would be different. let us go back to the beginning. george washington warned about

political parties who said it would be factions and then more loyal to their party than country. john adams said that they would become the biggest want to democracy. traditionally third party voices were important. abolition came from an abolitionist party. there was an unholy alliance in response to the increasing power of george wallace between the democrats and the republicans making it difficult for third party voices to be heard. that has not been good for america although we are at a point where everybody understands the conundrum in terms of what it help. what i find being out on the campaign trail is that americans are thinking about all of this. some people think that americans are apathetic but i do not think that.

i think a lot of americans that i encounter cannot even believe that this is happening and that it has gotten to this point. i think we are in the middle of this deep inquiry with people i have talked to and we have a lot of months left before november. and i pray like many americans that we will find our way. and i think we will. host: do you think you will end up at the nominating convention? guest: so far i have not been treated like a welcome guest which i do not understand. as i said, i think a robust primary would have been good for the party and good for president biden. as if he was the eventual nominee. shaming someone for primarying a president is not the way. republicans have to get back the