♪ host: good morning. washington journal is ahead. we begin with president joe

biden halting weapons to israel over theoncerns over the invasion of the southern city of rafah. this morning we are hearinfrom you. do you agree with president biden's decision to pause arm shipments to israel? if you say yes, (202) 748-8001. if you say no, -- if you say yes, (202) 748-8000. if you say no, (202) 748-8001. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. catch up with us on social media. on x, @canwj. on facebook, facebook.com/cspan. this is the lead story in major papers today. a few of the headlines from the new york times.

u.s.-israel divide grows over plans to iade rafah. biden's cut off of aid enrages netanyahu and israel allies. some republicans are threatening impeachment articles. israel holds firm on its invasion plans despite the u.s. threat. this story is what we are talking about this morning. the phone lines are split this way. if you think the u.s. should pause arm shipments, (202) 748-8000. if you say they should not, (202) 748-8001. present biden talking about this decision earlier this week. benjamin netanyahu responding yesterday in a social media posting, part of his speech he made earlier in the week. [video] >> 80 years ago, the jewish people were totally defenseless against those who sought our

destruction. no nation came to our aid. today we again confront enemies bent on our destruction. i say to the leaders of the world no amount of pressure, no decision by any international forum. israel from defending itself. as the prime minister of israel, the one and only jewish state, i pledge here today from jerusalem at this holocaust remembered state -- on this holocaust remembrance day, israel will stand alone. host: benjamin nanyahu on a social media posting yesterday. it was president biden who after pausing thousands of bombs shipped to israel last week talked about the decision. it was wednesday on cnn and why he made the decision.

here is part of the interview. [video] >> you have paused shipments of u.s. bonds to israel due to concerns they could be used in any offensive on rafah. those 2000 pound bombs been used to kill civilianin gaza? >> civilians have been killed in gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers. i made it clear if they go under offer -- they have -- into rafah, i'm not supplying the weapons historically that have dealt with that problem. i will continue to make sure israel is secure in terms of iron dome and responding to attacks that came out of the middle east recently. it is just wrong. we will not supply the weapons

and tillery shells used -- >> artillery shells as well? >> yes. artillery shells. >> to understand what they are doing now in rafah, is that not going into rafah? >> they have not gone into population centers. what they did was on the border and is causing problems right now in terms of egypt. i made it clear to bibi cabinet they will not get our support if they go into population centers. i'm not walking away from israel's security. >> it is not over your redline yet? >> not yet. host: that was president biden on wednesday. we are asking about the pause of offensive arms shipments to israel. yes, you do or no, you do

not. the lead story in the wall street journal. theause risks one of the worst crises ever an israeli-u.s. relations, joint comparison to former preside reagan's decision to delay delivery of f-16 warplanes israel during its bombardment of beirut in 1981. taking your phone calls, we start with linda in mississippi. good morning. caller: yes. i agree with what biden is doing. he should have done it a long time ago. netanyahu thumbed his nose at the united states every time they request him to do something. we give the country billions of dollars in money and equipment. the only reason he's trying to keep the war going is to keep his job. another donald trump.

if he goes into rafah, he is going in there to kill. if you go in there, he's going in there to killomen, children and babies. the people of israel -- he's trying his best to kill everyone over there in gaza. that is wrong. host: you save millions of dollars. the number is billions of dollars when you talk about aid. president biden signed a package that was sent $15 billion in additional military aid to israel. this is from the new york times. a look at military aid to israel. under a 26 in agreement, the memorandum of understanding, united states gave israel $30 billion in weapons over a 10-year period. u.s. military aid has amoted

to $216 billion since israel's founng in 1948. elizabeth in washington. you are next. caller: hi. i think we are asking the wrong questions. we are making it all about israel. why isn't the question, why can't hamas give back the hostages? why can't hamas not use people as human shields? why can't they surrender? israel is in an unteble position. now what is being asked to stop protecting itself. nobody wants to see innocent people killed. it is not all israel's fault. nobody is talking about hamas's role. host: richard, sparta, new jersey. caller: good morning. i think we have to keep helping israel. i want to complain about the way we -- it is propaganda to say it is israeli versus hamas.

hamas is a political organization. it has an army and a defective government in palestine. we don't say it is hamas versus likud. it is really the palestinians versus israelis, which is what it has been for the st 75 years. various terrorist groups have come and gone. it has always been the palestinians versus the israelis. that is what the wars about. the palestinians chose terrorism. that is their weapon of choice in the middle east, terrorism. the israelis responded in kind. the crushing of gaza was terrorism. the idea of terrorism scared the hell out of the civilians.

that is the weapon that hamas chose for the palestinians. as far as genocide is concerned, pol pot. you have the holocaust. you have rwanda. other bona fide genocides have been a million people at least. 35,000 people is maybe a mini genocide. what the crime was his they terrorized the palestinians. -- is they terrorized the palestinians. they are not trying to kill them all. it is not genocide. terrorism was the objective of what they are doing. host: when it comes to the prosecutioof the war in gaza there is a state department report we have been waiting to see this wk.

it was expected earlier this week andas delayed a couple of days. here's the latest from axios. antony blinken expected to submit to congress a critil report about israel's conduct in gaza that stopped short of concding israel viated the terms of its usage of u.s. weapons. the report assessing whether israel complied with international law and restricted humanitarian aid to gaza. it's sparta contentious debate in the state department -- sparked a contentious debate in the state department. the document was required under a memorandum issued by president biden in february. that is expeed to come today and submitted to cgress. it was yesterday that defense secretary lloyd austin faced questions when he went to capitol hill. he was asked about the administration and his weapons

shipments to israel, especially in a heated exchange with lindsey graham of south carolina. [video] >> do you believe iran really nts to kill all the jews if they could? the iranian regime? d believe hamas series when they say we will keep doing it over and over again? do you agree they will if they can? >> i do, hamas. >> do you believe hezbollah is a terrorist organization and on the disruption of the jewish state? >> hezbollah is a terrorist organization. >> iran has been -- israel has been hit by iran, hezbollah, you will tell them how to fight the war and what they can and can't use when everybody around them was to kill all the jews? you are telling me if w withhold weapons in this fight, the existential fight for the life of the jewish state it will

t send the wrong signal? host: defense secretary austin d lindsey graham yesterday in the senate committee on the floor of the u.s. senate. more discussion about how israel has prosecuted this work d pausing ofnsive weapons to israel. thisas senator bernie sanders yesterday. [veo] >> -- to tell you why the american people are opposed to more milary aid to the netanyahu government. mr. preside, almost 35,000 palestinians have already been killed in this seven-monthar. morehan 78,000 have been wounded. over two this of whom are women and children. two thirds of home are women and children. as we speak right now, according

to humanitarian organizations, hundreds of thousands of palestinian children face the possibility of malnuition d starvation. no. the american people do not want to see an increase in destruction in gaza. they want to see an end to this horrific war. mr. president, as i'm sure you know, the netanyahu government has destroyed the civilian infrastructure of gaza. there is virtually no eltricit virtually no clean water and raw sewagis running through the streets, spreading disease. mr. president, the housing infrastructure of gaza has been demolished. over 60% of the housing units have been damaged or destroyed, including 221,000 housing units that have been completely demated, leaving more than one

million people homeless, almos half the population of gaza. the health care system has been systematically annihilated. health care at a time when you have ts of thousands of people that have been injured 26 out of 36 hospitals have been made inoperabl more than 400 health-care workers haven't killed. theducational systein gaza has been virtually destroyed. every one of gaza's 12 universities have been bombed. 56 schools have been destroyed. 219 have been damaged. 625,000 children have no access to education. some of my republican friends say this is not enough violence. this is not enoughestruction. they want netanyahu to go into rafah and killed more people, make it impossible for

humanitarian aid to get out the starving people. maybe some of my republican colleagues think that is a good idea. i do not believe the american people agree with them. host: senator bnie sanders yestery from the sene floor. taking your phone call this is anthony and washington, d.c. -- in washington, d.c. caller: good morng. i agree with bernie sders every ep of the way. mes a coat veteran, i know war. i know our enemies. this is ridiculous. theyhink we are du as a box rocks that they will solve ything by palming --bombing rafa th have no strucres left. you have the entire ga strip there ain't no w in chicken et that ny batlions ll erthroisrael a't way.

the best thing they can do is stop the carnage, get to a peaceful negotiating and get the hostages bk. we have our american citizens over there in the dungeons or wherever they have them. hamas is tre. am not somebody -- host: when anwhere d you serve? caller: my first combatour was in panama. ni monthlater it was in dert storm. i was back a forth. no-fly zone, no drive zone, back-and-forth. then i went back over this last time. it bothers me to see that w have taken on this role -- i'm talking about mayhem going on in ukine. the same thingoing oin

israel but we make excuses for their slaughter. we did not do that in iq. our rules of engagement said to only fight thenemy in front of us whenhey disappear,hat's it. tha's why theyight guerrilla warfare for reason. you don't bomb every city, tow school, hospital. is ridiculs. i agree with beie sanders. yes, i think they went too far. there is a rort coming out. it will also be ridiculous. they think we are stuck on stid ain that they have committed these atrocities. we in command always have a lawyer to tell us what we can do, what weapons tuse. host: thanks for that call. ernie in south carolina. caller: good morning. let me be brief with my

statement. i disagree 100% with your prevus caller. i disagree with senator bernie sanders. senator lindsey graham is my senator. h's also a veteran of the air force, wch i am also an air force disabled vet. here's the situation. a lot of people might not agre with this. i'm a devout christian. i support the jews. the jews are god's chosen people. all the surrounding cntries. the problem is, israel needs that land and all that land beuse that is what god promised abraham. let me tell you somethin else. we turn our back on israel, there is something wrong with the united states of america. host: michael in pittsburgh.

your next. caller: goo morni. you caught me th a mouthful of cereal. hold on one second thanks for taking my call. i absolutely disagree that he should be stopping -- having a pause on arms israel. i wish he was as interested in -- when he gave iran all that help. iran is a terroris nation that hasupported hamas and all the terroris actions all over the world, including against our own troops. yet biden had no problem giving them all kinds of relief. think israel isn a war against mas and hamas uses civilians as protection. after october 7, it should be

obvious th hamas will stop at nothing for the total destruction of israel and every jew, man, woman, and child. i feel bad for the palestinian civilis but they allow hamas to live with them and among st them. as long as that continues we have to do the necessary but terrible thing and suppo israel. host: more from capitol hill yesterday. senate foreign relations committee rankg member jim rich of audio -- jim rice of idaho. [video] >> the administration -- congress passed funding. the administration allowed the weapons sales. myselfnd the three members of congress who closely look at these sales and take the obligation seriously all signed off on it. now in the heat of battle this administration is saying we will pu this back.

this is unprecedented. it will be watched by our enemies, watched by our allies and is not helpful to national security of the uned states. what the administration claims to be trying to do is t reduce the collateral damages when israel goes into rafah. they are going into rafah. they said they are going with or without anybody else's help. what is the system they held up? the kits that make the smart bombs and set of general bombs. they are doing exactly the opposite of what they say they are trying to do. this is simply a nod to their far left flank. it is trying to have a foot on each side of the fence. within two hours of the president's announcement, hamas said they were withdrawing from the negotiations on hostages and on a cease fire. for the president has done is handed a victory to hamas. it will invigorate the fighting

they are doing in gaza and stop the negotiations that have been ongoing. this was a horrible mistake. thank you. host: that was yesterday on capitol hill. this topic coming up at a press briefing on the floor the house and senate. members also taking to their social media pages. this was mitch mcconnell yesterday, posting the president cannot claim to suort israel while denying israel precisely the s it needs to defend itself ifommander in chief cannot muster the courage to stand up to radicals and hileft flank the possibilities will be great. steve scalise saying biden's denying support israel by halting transfers of critical weapons as they fight a war against terrorists to free innocent hostages, including americans. this is a beayal of our greatest ally in the middle east. p is ctrolled by his radical base -- hes controlled

by his be. alexdria ocasio-coez, hoing the israeli government to the same b we hold all of our allies to. is rpoible, secure, and that just thing today. the president's shift to include israel and u.s. standards makes the world safer and makes our valu clear. one more from senator elizabeth warren from massachusetts. theresident's ts vision ia step in the right direction. netanyahu must stop bombing gaza and the insi of rafah. the u.s. needs to push for a cease-fire, the return of hostages and more lifesaving aid. that is how the discussion played out on capitol hill we are hearing from you this morning on the washington journal. phone lines split this way. should the u.s. continue its positive offense of arms shipments to israel? . -- yes (202) 748-8000.

no, (202) 748-8001. robert, good morning. caller: good morning. what i was thinking is it is not really a war because they don't have equal arments, bombers, etc. they are just bombinand slaughtering people. it is not a war. it is a slaughter. someone said god gave that land to abraham. they have not done what god told them to do. that is why they were put out of the land. the other thing they keep falling back on, the hocaust. the wholworld war ii was a holocaust. 6 million jews died. 30 million more russians died. maybe 100 billion peopleied. the hall -- 100 million people th. the holocaust was not just the wish people who died. 6 million died because they did not pick up arms, especially in the beginning, and then take on

the nazis. have thedone that might not have had world war ii. host: jim in troy, ohio. caller: good morning. the answer is no. if bernie sanders, the squad, and the oer two want to protect hamas, i think they should take anirplane and go over there and help israel fight hamas to ended. they talk -- to end it. they talk big over here and that is what they should do. host: baltimore, maryland. mac. caller: i totally support joe biden for withholding every single bit of weapons he can withhold from sending to israel. people nd to think about this and realize that terrorism comes from the idea that terrorizing

comes from the netanyahu way of dealing with problems. when you just declare war on a group of people and slaughte them that is the same as what the teorists did. the only way we can make this rld better, more peaceful, is we all support -- all exercise or mental strength over physical strength --ur mtal strength over physical strength. those terroris are criminals criminals can be -- you can fd criminals in very high places anywhere in the world you go. every government has somsort of a criminal working in it. those people are criminals. you can't punish the

palestinians for electing the officials they elected. we have some very extreme politicians heren our country too. i will give one example. when a white supmacist goes into a black neighborhooand shoots, we don't go and do what netanyahu is doing in gaza. it is not right. host: this is mike in arizona. caller: good morning to you. w are you doing? host: doing well. caller: my answer is no, you do not go against god's people. go ahead and do what you gotta do. host: i think we lost you mike.

we might be hearing your phone. deborah in pennsylvania. go ahead. caller: good morning, c-span. the israel army is blowing up things in gaza and probably kiing the hostages. hamas is not going to move without the hostages with them. we want have hostages to get out. yet we ll destroy all that land, all that property. they are nothinking things through. there are good and badn every nationality, every religion. we wilalways he people amongst us. thanyou for taking my call. host: sue in michigan. decision. you have to look at the big picture. he is trying to prevent an overall war in the whole area. by doing that what he is doing is putting a pause on it just so that they can figure out what to do next.

i know you are making the right decision when both sides disagree with the. i think he is doing -- disagree with you. i think what he is doing is ok. host: coming up on 7:30 on the east coast. we are talking forward policy and the israel-hamas conflict. the latest from late last night on domestic policies. specifically the battle over the faa bill and what will happen with airport and flight funding. the senate passing late last night and faa bill -- an faa bill over a conflict over flights coming out of reagan national airport. the story from the washington times noting the senate legislation authorizes more than $105 million over five years for the nation's aviation programs. much aimed at improving safety in the wake of close calls on runways and a string of airplane manufacturing and repair lapses.

the senate approved a weeklong extension of the current funding law. that would give the house enough time to come in next week and potentially pass the senate bill. the house also debating this this week. on the reagan national airport front, the story notes the legislation passed over the objection of four democrats representing maryland and virginia who fought for an amendment to block the provision that five round-trip flights in and out of reagan national airport located in arlington, virginia, could threaten safety at the nearly maxed out airport. the issue -- the issues that warning yesterday.the bill passed . we will see of the house passes the senate version of the bill. that is the latest on that front.

back to this question we have been talking about, should the u.s. pass -- pause arms shipments to israel? if you say yes, (202) 748-8000. if you say no, (202) 748-8001. the editorial board of the wall street journal is a no, saint democrats have hammered republicans for months to pass military aid for america's friends abroad. now only weeks after the bill passes with bipartisan support, president biden is holding up the weapons israel needs to prevail in its war for survival. the threat to pull the plug on the main u.s. ally in the middle east is a watershed moment that will radiate across the world. other allies will wonder what they are risking if they cast their lot with the united states. striking back at biden's israel embargo is the headline on the wall street journal editorial this morning.

you can see it online and in their paper. mark waiting in wesley chapel, florida. good morning. caller: yes. the answer is no. let me expand on this. the protesters, the pro-hamas protesters know they can intimidate biden. the protest will continue because biden is a we coward. why did we get here? interesting facts your biden voters may or may not know. in the first three years of biden's administration leading up to the october 7 terrorist attack, the administration funneled $70 billion into the iranian regime. $70 billion that donald trump would never have funneled into the iranian regime. the regime funded the hamas terrorist attack on october 7, 2023. biden indirectly is responsible

for where we are at today. and directly or directly, biden is responsible for this. here's another incredible fact. since october 7, 2023, the iranian regime has engaged in almost 200 global attacks against american forces, killing some of our people. despite that, biden has continued to fund the iranian regime with billions and billions of more dollars. it is so staggeringly stupid. it is incomprehensible. host:host: this is thomas in minnesota. caller: hello. thanks for taking my call. i believe he should not supply any more weapons until they stop calling it a war for one thing. the world should have never put up with them attacking them of the first place. but now i think he needs to back

off. innocent people are dying. he has the best cia in the world. they send the men one by one and take them out one by one and keep the kids out of the picture. they have the power to do that. they need to go in there with the cia. thank you. host: president biden has talked for weeks about a red line in rafah. this weapons pause is over that red line. israel said it will move forward with its move into rafah to try to find and eliminate the last cells of hamas terrorists. israel moving to the rafah gate on the egyptian border, taking that earlier this week. it has yet to move into the rafah city proper. discussions at the state department whether the move to the rafah gate crossed president

biden's red line or where that line is exactly. matt miller took the questions yesterday. [video] >> what is your definition of a major operation? >> i will not get into too much detail but i would differentiate it from the types of operations we have seen from the beginning when it comes to rafah. we have seen israel execute strikes against rafah. i mean airstrikes. going back to last october it is something they have engaged in. the operation to take control of the rafah crossing appeared to be a limited operation. not a major invasion invasion on areas, neighborhoods packed with people, thousands and thousands of people. when we talk about a major operation, it's a campaign targeting the civilian areas that are densely packed with civilians. in many cases they are refugees.

sometimes twice over and are now taking refuge in a place that is a last resort because there is nowhere else for them to go. host: matt miller yesterday getting questions about this pause on offensive arms shipments israel. we noted this pause even had some in congress threatening impeachment against president biden. that would be congress in cory mills, freshman of florida -- congressman cory mills. he would pursue imacent articles today. that is a tweet from yesterday. here is story from fox news saying he is prepping the articles against president biden over his threat to halt u.s. offense of weapons -- offensive weapons, forcing israel into a quid pro quo situation. drawing parallels to democrats'

first impeachment of donald trump over his handling of the ukraine aid. he stated the house has no choice but to impeach president quid pro quo biden as he withholds funding and aid to israel unless they fire the attorney general investigating charisma -- barisma. he's now pausing their funding that has been approved by the house if they don't stop all operations. is a clear message, this for that. congressman cory mills of florida. floor action promised today. you can watch here on c-span. tournament is left in the first segment of the washington journal. shows the u.s. continue its paws on offensive arms shipments israel? stephen virginia, what you think? -- what do you think? caller: they should not. hamas is a known terrorist

organization in which we have stupidly funded through other channels. hamas is funded by everybody that is anti-american. hamas uses their own people as human shields. nobody asks why do we have an expose on how hamas has treated palestinians over the past 10 years. the palestinians are afraid. they cannot leave. their civilization has not improved. with all the money you pump in it has only been used to destroy the moral fiber of the christian world. host: one of the callers earlier -- you say the people in gaza cannot leave and are essentially hostaged. there was a caller that said it is the people in gaza who allow hamas to be there. if they had just removed hamas,

israel would not be doing what it's doing. what do you say to that? caller: i would say the ball is in hamas's court -- the palestinians have allowed this to happen over time. look what happened to isis. that should happen to hamas. it should happen to the who these -- houthis. terrorism is not the way to get things done in the modern world anymore. these people live in a world that is hundreds of years old in a traditional territorial battle. they are all warlords. we have allowed this to infect our own country. what they have done -- with these people have done to our way of life here already,

destroyer statues -- destroyed our statues, tried to destroy america and turn it into another muslim radical -- radical muslim-run country. there is nothing wrong with the religion these people are warlords. it's all about power. host: you might be interested in this piece from the national review. an advertisement for anti-americanism, talking about the protests taking place on college campuses. it is by the editor of the national review. he will join us in our next hour to talk about that article and campus protests and what it means politically here in the united states. stick around for that discussion. edward out of florida, you are next. caller: yes.

i'm ready. thank you for having me. i think israel is acting more like the new hitler regime and killing all the people. host: we will hold off on hitler comparisons this morning. janna in lima, ohio. caller: everybody needs to leave israel and the jews alone. they need to leave them alone. they are god's people. have mercy on your souls if you go against them. that is all i have got to say. host: jc from mobile, alabama. caller: good morning. i have listened for several weeks. two of your fema hosts have given a great deal of time to the evangelical christian maga people. this will be equal time now for the catholic christian people who were not maga.

i want to set the record straight. it's a 75% protestant dominant nation. absolutely we should stop. there should be no pause. it should never have been weapons shipments in the first place. it should be stopped immediately. but we have got to make clear is this. the jewish people of the torah, the jewish people of the old testament are at different bonds from the modern secular humanist nationstate of israel. the modern secular humanist state that the protestant evangelicals apparently love and are trying to expedite the return of the lord jesus christ by bringing jewish people back there and bringing all sorts of man as they don't understand because they have a literalistic interpretation of the old testament. this modern state of israel is secular humanist.

60% consistently say they are agnostic or atheist. they have abortion on demand. 60,000 israeli babies are aborted every year. they have all sorts of vile pornography. it is not a godly nation. this interpretation -- host: you not see israel as america's closest ally in the middle east? caller: i do not. absolutely do not. they will turn their backs on us in two seconds. they are using the united states and the evangelical magas are using them in a cynical self-serving white. each party is using the others. on the music festival, no one has mentioned this since the attack. host: i think we got your point. sarah in fairfax, virginia. caller: good morning. if israel does not go into rafah

and finish cleaning out hamas, what happens? did the people to stay there in that awful condition? those conditions in gaza prior to the war were horrible anyway. it was one of the most miserable placesn the face of the earth. if we don't finish the job, we go to the negotiating table and say, ok hamas. we are not going to hurt you. we will not fight you. we will not go into rafah. what do you want so we can get our innocent people back? it makes no sense to me. it reminds me of ukraine where we are in this stalemate and people are just being put through a horrible situation. many innocent ukrainian

civilians are getting killed in ukraine. you have got to fight. if your going to fight, you have got to finish. that's all i got to say. it's a sad situation. host: that is sarah and fairfax, virginia -- in fairfax, virginia. we have been talking about funding for weapons. here is a piece from the front page of the commentary section of the washington times. you will recognize the other, mike pence. they rare legislative win. talking about the foreign aid package passed for eight israel and ukraine and taiwan -- aid to israel and ukraine and taiwan. advancing american freedom spent more than $2 million waging an advertisement campaign to pressure chuck schumer to bring the legislation to the floor for a full vote. the former vice president saying, i think, for finally doing so and the bipartisan -- i

thank him for finally doing so and the bipartisan -- the package included some $60 billion for ukraine, $26 billion per israel. aid for taiwan as well to the tune of $8 billion. at a time when washington seems more divided than ever, is important for americans to member bipartisan cooperation is still possible. the tag on that piece written in the washington times, the descriptor at the end of that piece. this is what it says about mike pence. he is a husband, father, grandfather, christian, conservative and republican in that order. he served as the 48th vice president. kyle in buffalo, new york. caller: good morning.

black people have been using religion as a reason why we should be over there supporting israel and killing thousands of people. i don't like when religion comes up in these topics. republicans used to be about civil rights, conservative values. a lot of these callers that want to keep funding israel, that's fine. i don't think our tax dollars really should be going to it. a caller defines genocide in their own words. genocide technically is when one group wipes out another group. that is what we are seeing. there should be some type of pause. israel's intelligence new about this before it happened. you have to question why didn't they do anything to stop it.

there is a lot of conspiracy theory saying they give some things -- it gives them an excuse to do what they are doing. take more territory, bomb or buildings. some of the colors are blaming the poor victims, saying it is their fault because they allowed terrorist groups to take over their buildings and stuff like that. that is like saying slavery was the africans' fault because christians came over and let them take them and make them into workers for this country. christianity was the basis for slavery. i don't get some of these far right christians who use war and death as a tool to do what they need to do to get the job done. host: this is mary lou from connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a feeling all through the

last three years that barack obama is running this country. host: why would you think that? caller: joe biden does not have the wherewithal to be present. biden did not want to help israel when he was in. he was much more on iran's side. it looks to me like he is behind this business of not wanting to help israel. host: biya in chicago. caller: how are you doing today? glad to hear it. i am a jewish-american. i support president biden in withholding the funding. here's why.

if we look back at the 2006 lebanon war, which on this very network daniel pipes made many of the same arguments that are being made today about that war. dr. james zogby already -- argued against the war and said we were digging ourselves into a deep hole and doing more harm than good. they were killing innocent civilians. when we reflect, the bbc cover this well. by 2016, the hezbollah's number said risen in the war -- because of that war from 1000 at the start of the 2006 war to 10,000. we are talking now about eradicating hamas in this war. when you look at it we are actually possibly creating hamas

2.0. the other thing is that folks talk about the hostages and talk about the prisoners. we need to be listening to the families who are saying netanyahu has blood on his hands. that the situation is not going to make hostages any safer or get any hostages home. the palestinians' rights have been violated for years. this is something that we need to think about as well. there are many palestinian hostages and annexed traditional situation being held by -- hostages that are being held for a long time. we need to bring the hostages home. we need to guarantee as has been talked about in the cease-fire agreements and irreversible path towards real palestinian

sovereignty. when folks are saying the majority of the population of palestine -- when folks say the majority of palestine supports hamas, that's absurd. in july i think it was of 2020 three, -- 2023, 10% supported hamas. when president biden is holding this money that is being used to bomb innocent civilians, women and children, in our names, as a jewish-american i feel it is my duty, my right, and something my ancestors would value very much that we stand up to injustice. i would also say my family lived among muslims for hundreds of years in spain and the ottoman empire under muslim rule.

in our case we were able to -- some emigrated to the united states and some emigrated to palestine. host: if this is a moment to stand up, as you say, to israel on the issues you bring up, what you think the future of u.s.-israel relations looks like? this moment of pausing the arms shipments described in one of the major papers as a crossroads moment for u.s.-israel relations. guest: caller: caller: yeah -- caller: yeah, we should be looking to the israeli peace movement and looking to notions of peace in this case. we staked our diplomatic reputation on the oslo court. we should try to work with nations that support human

rights. in this case we should be true to our word that we withhold funding. not in a way to say we hope to create more refugees in the world or create more difficult situations, but in the spirit of saying we cannot be part of genocide. but also we would like to encourage lasting conditions that make sure that everybody gets home safely and with integrity. we cannot have safety without integrity. otherwise we are sowing the seeds of future discontent and destruction. host: i think i found the poll you are referring to. the zogby research group. october of 2023.

his washington was column. he writes about the polling from july of 2023. because we frequently poll across israel and palestine, data shows 11% of palestinians identify themselves as hamas supporters. that hardly constitutes all palestinians. he talks about the various polling taken place over the years. caller: that's exactly what i'm referring to. host: a couple of minutes left. mark in michigan. in morning. caller: -- good morning. caller: i'm a bit torn about which way to go with the arms. i think for the time being israel can handle themselves. i think they will be a lot smarter going into rafah. they know the situation there.

it has been seven or eight months. they are not going to have the same campaign. the thing of little upset with his the u.s. is asking israel to do this. what are they asking of hamas? hamas can and all of this now -- end all of this now if they give up their weapons and hostages. it is really that simple. this was a were started on their side. the battle has been going on for 80 years or maybe longer. ever since the jews wanted to homeland after the holocaust and the british partitioned the area. the arab states would not in any way given to that. i think the palestinians and their leadership are still stuck in that. we cannot give anything. we can't live next to the jews. they have to get off this land.

they are caught in this loophole where the rest of the arab world was starting to get somewhere else, israel was making ties with the uae and saudi arabia. they have leadership that is really stuck in hatred. they create hatred. why isn't the u.s. saying --hamas, you have to do something on your end and give back all the hostages and relinquish control. if the u.s. is going to be a power in this they should have to say something on the other side. that is the part that is the injustice. host: what is the pressure point the u.s. can push on the others? if pausing arms shipments is a pressure point the u.s. can push on the israeli side, what is it on the gaza side? is it holding up age shipments? -- aid shipments? what is it?

caller: maybe provide more eight. more carrots -- more aid. more carrots and sticks -- than sticks. how can we get the hostages out? how can we get the hamas leadership to relinquish something? there has to be something done on that end. they can just be that israel has to keep giving and giving. they have tried to negotiate for the past 20 years. they were giving up -- giving away a huge chunk of land. it was a good compromise. yasser arafat said ok, and then he switched around. the hamas leadership or the arab leadership of palestine could not have a jewish state. host: why is it sticks for

israel and more carrots for the palestinians? caller: i don't know. there has to be something on the hamas side. if israel has to give something then the hamas leadership should have to give something. something big. they started this. they created this work we are in right now -- war we are in right now. israel said we can easily end this and they continue notso, t- proxy war because -- i could not tell you. it is just not fair that israel will have to give in and give in and hamas, they are not giving any concessions. host: mark in michigan. our last caller in this first

segment of the washington journal. plenty to talk about. up next we are joined by the national review editor rich lowry where we will discuss the recent college campus protests over the israel-hamas war. and then later richard gephardt will join us to discuss efforts to pass the kids online safety act. stick around, we will be right back. >> today, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly roundup of campaign coverage covering a one stop shop to discover what candidates across the country are saying to voters along with first-hand accounts from political reporters, updated phone numbers, fundraising data and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail today at seven: -- 7:30 p.m. eastern on c-span.com or

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c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: we welcome back to the program rich lowry, he spent a lot of time thinking and writing about the college campus protests over israel and the war in gaza. they are not over yet. there is an article in the "wall street journal" about harvard, penn and m.i.t. are struggling to quell the protests, what do you think the lasting image of this wave of college campus protests this spring? guest: lasting image is a great question. tense as people with loudspeakers next to them is the image of this bout of protests. and quite shameful. the groups organizing them are frankly elimination asked in their aims against israel and we have heard a lot of hateful and disgusting things.

anadministrators generally and there have beenxceptions, they have been very craven. the first reaction was we will give you a warning and then arrest you. and then the facults out in the support of the students and on the student comes right back and they are not arrested for two weeks and there are sets of negotiations and they end up taking a building and on they really have to be arrested again. this is a blow to the reputation of elite and ivy league colleges. they had a lot of reputational capital to burn but they have burned a considerable amount of it. host: we showed this headline, the piece from the national review to the viewers in the previous segment calling it an advertisement for anti-americanism. what do you say to those folks who say protesting, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are quintessentially american values? guest: sure. yes. lawful protest is a

fundamentally american value. but, these have not been lawful. the university of chicago which has handled this issue and free speech issues with incredible daftnes -- deftness, the president had a great letter pointing out the examples that several months ago pro-palestinian or pro-hamas students came to the administration saying that we want to to unfurl a huge palestinian flag on the quad and the administration said that is fine. you can do it for two days and you can have an information table and when people want to learn more they can talk to you and that is how you do it. you do not illegally occupy space where you are not allowed to encamp for good reason because it can be threatening it is a disruption, it requires a police presence that is better deployed elsewhere. all sorts of reasons. but the people legality is the point and that is what makes it transgressive and makes it feel like more of a protest if you are breaking the rules.

and the occasion for the headline of which you just read was the protest earlier this week in manhattan. they were going to be disrupt the met gala and they come across the world war i memorial and do they just pass by respectfully? no. they graffiti it and climb all over it with palestinian flags and burn in american flag at the base of the statue educated to the memory of these doughboys who sacrificed an incredible amount. that is an important collective commitment of the nation to honor and to remember such men. and i often do not praise new york city officials for their reflexive reactions to things. but they are absolutely right. they are so harsh about it as one deputy commissioner at the nypd call and heinous crime and eric adams had a press conference and said we had to hunt these people down. the next day there was a street artist that put an american flag

on it which is the appropriate response. host: i will show viewers your tweet from wednesday when you went over there and took a picture of that memorial, the 107th memorial. the world war i memorial. viewers can see it cleaned up and with the flag on it. this war between israel and hamas has been going on since october. why do you think these protests sprang up in the past three weeks? why has this come to a head on college campuses in the past three weeks seven months into the war? guest: that is a great question. there were protests in the immediate after -- there were not protests in the immediate aftermath, that within d days of the israel suffering unspeakable crimes against civilians, it was not like hamas was trying to kill israeli soldiers. they would have killed and kidnapped many more if they had

this in the immediate aftermath. after that anti-israel protests sprang up. this pressure has been building over time and the case against israel has been building over time based on the ridiculous charge and smear that israel is guilty of genocide. i am not sure exactly -- columbia was set off by the testimony of the columbia president before the house. she was trying to avoid the problem that her ivy league colleagues had had a couple lost their jobs after they sounded so wishy-washy. she tried to sound tougher but that set off this reaction among students or a faction of her own students. and then that, social media being what it is, the images spread and everyone else gets the idea and before you know its a nationwide event. host: you are with us until 8:45 eastern time. here are the phone numbers. democrats, 202-748-8000.

republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. in holding a special line open for college students or professors or administrators, if you want to talk with rich lowry, 202-748-8003. i spoke -- as folks are calling and i want to take you to the senate floor from tuesday as senator bernie sanders talking about what the protests are about on college campuses. this is one minute and a half. [video clip] >> i think all of us believe and i know that all of us believe that this horrific attack marks the unequivocally -- must be unequivocally condemned. and i believe that all of us understand that israel had the right to defend itself against hamas. but, i certainly do not believe nor do a strong majority of the american people believe that the

right wing extremist netanyahu government has the right to wage an unprecedented, all-out war against the palestinian people. and what these protests are largely about, and what public opinion is showing is outrage that since october 7, the netanyahu government has killed more than 34,000 palestinians and injured more than 78,000. 70% of whom are women and children. that is over 5% of the 2.2 million people living in gaza. and that, mr. president is what the vast majority of people in this country who are protesting are talking about. [end video clip] host: that from bernie sanders

this week. any week in which the biden administration has paused offensive weapons shipments to israel amid concerns about its looming invasion of rafah. your response. guest: well, at least he condemned the attack. you do not hear that at any of these protests. there is a video on twitter yesterday and i do not know what was it might've been in the u.s. or tenant -- or canada where a jewish kid sympathizes with the protesters and the netanyahu got up and said this is what is terrible in gaza but we have to condemned the hamas attack and he is booed down and they chased him off the podium. that is a sensibility of most of these protests and the idea that this is unprecedented. no other nation has waged a war against an adversary in an urban environment is not true. this is not a war against the palestinian people. if it were why isn't israel

hitting the west bank? because hamas is not there. part of the shame of what happens and why netanyahu eventually will have a bad political end and perhaps deservedly so is that israel is willing to live with hamas. it was beholden to the illusion that there could be peaceful coexistence with hamas. and basically more or less had a hands-off policy. we are supposed to believe that israel always had this genocidal intent worse as the palestinians and happened that this is expressed after the terror attack. they are responding to the terror attack. the final thing i will say is that sanders indulges in the sand as see that this is just netanyahu, an evil guy. he wants to eliminate hamas and no one else and israel wants to do this. it is a societywide consensus that this is intolerable and cannot happen again. netanyahu's unity war government at the moment in israel and if

netanyahu were hit by a bus tomorrow and his opponent on the left took over he would do the same thing. you can work all the way down to the fourth or fifth guy on the totem pole on the way that the republicans did. they could come up with the mike johnson of israel and he would favor that is because israel cannot afford to live with a terrorist to -- terror group bent on eliminating it on the border and no other society in the world would tolerated other -- either. host: margaret out of joliet, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning, i am not saying israel is right or wrong, i do not know. what i do know is this, why in the world that out of 500 four 2000 people, how is it ok to kill thousands of other people? tell me how this makes sense. it is like one of them did something and the whole nation got it. that does not make sense.

guest: yes. it is not as though israel is counting this up and saying 1200 israelis died, let's kill 1200 civilians in gaza. no. that is not what this is about. that would be deeply wrong. they are trying to root out hamas. the problem is that hamas does not wear uniforms and it does not fight like a lawful army. it hides among civilians and once, and they want civilians to die, not just israeli civilians but they want civilians in gaza to die because they consider it a beautiful propaganda point and something that will turn bernie sanders against israel, not that he needed turning. but energize them against israel. those civilians deaths are hugely useful and they are all sorts of things that they can be doing to avoid them. but they do not want to. the truth is, warfare in highly dense urban environment with an

enemy using civilians as shields is going to be destructive and have all sorts of collateral consequences that you do not want. but, that is ultimately on hamas. host: joe, california. good morning. caller: rich, can you tell me the motto of risat. host: do you know it? caller: it is by way of deception thou shalt create war. it is a commitment as an organization to do false flags. are you familiar with the term false flag? guest: i am. what is your theory? caller: my theory is that the good news is that benjamin netanyahu lead nine and attacked america. host: anything you want to say to joe. guest: i thought that was where we were heading. host: linda, south gate.

michigan. good morning. caller: first of all, i hope you have someone on the others because you cannot get more white -- right-wing them this review. guest: i will take it as a compliment. caller: radical rights. the other thing i would like to say, you can laugh and that is ok. it makes you sound better. host: what is your question? caller: my question is that why do i know more than you guys do? the propaganda on all of the networks has been so prolific. it came out on what the agreement was that they worked on. the agreement was that israel offered to hamas that they would stop the bombing if, loss would release -- hamas would release all hostages. hamas agreed to release all hostages. this came out yesterday and you

can check. israel turned it down because they said the terms was that they would have to permanently stop bombing and they intend to weather the hostages are returned or not. the hostages are not netanyahu's goal. he does not care about the hostages. there has really been no direct searching for the hostages, no targeted people, no -- like we had the seals to go in, there has been nothing. they are telling the citizens in israel that they have to get the hostages. and they are killing everyone. host: we have your point. guest: look, hamas took the hostages. by the way, hostage taking is not a great thing and not something that civilized societies do. and he uses as leverage to try and stop the war and survive so they can launch terror attacks and take more hostages.

so, this is a hellish dilemma for israel because you are waging a war that will likely result in the hostages being killed. if they don't get killed anyway. you just cannot say we are going to let you stay there if we give you hostages back. unfortunately it is not clear how many are still alive. so, it just puts israel in a horrible position and israel should not be in a position that it gets hostages back that never should be taken and then let's a terror group stay there. host: coming back to the college campus protests, is this three week. -- three week period going to change college campuses, is it going to change apparently how administrators deal with protests on campus? is this a equivalent to 81968 vietnam war moment? guest: yes.

there has been a lot a parallels with 1968. it was a much larger phenomenon. and the antiwar movement had a much broader base than this does. this has a lot of detention, deserve it -- attention deservedly. lumbee at the height of the protests was a quorum. it was 100 kids, that is small compared to what happened in 1968. the lesson that the administration should take this away, the university of chicago and florida have done this right, you establish clear lines of what is legal and what is not and what is permitted and what

is not and then you enforce them. you do not negotiate or be -- it is run by the ideological grandchildren's. and the faculty is on the wrong side. this has been a really distressing spectacle. host: staying on 1960 eight democrats bracing for protests parking back to 68. some 10,000 estimated vietnam war protesters, hundreds of whom were arrested in 1968, what are your predictions for the conventions this summer? guest: the democrats should be

worried. i think you will see protests and unrest in chicago. but, again, comparing the scale of the two years and 68, in chicago it will be a smaller event than in 1968. it was a hugely traumatizing battle between the protesters and the police. and i do not think we will see anything at that level. but disorder at the convention hurts. and this is a fundamental mistake the administration is making. these protesters are the administration's enemies and they should be on the side of broad public opinion that does not like this stuff. instead they have waffled and part of the motive about what biden is doing is hoping to placate this kind of sentiment on the left. these people will not be placated they will think that joe biden is still "genocide joe" even if you pause the weapons. at the same time his policy

seeming to cater to this sentiment causes more disaffection from the biden of the administration. host: 25 minutes left this morning. we will take you to our neighbors to the north. toronto. godfrey is calling on the line for republicans. go ahead. caller: hello. hello, rich. i just want to talk about the campaign coming up. the election is like six months from now and the chief opponent of the current occupant of the white house is being bogged down by a shambolic trial in new york. i do not see republican senators or legislatures protesting against the sham trial. i know that if this was

happening to the democrats, everybody would be up in arms and everybody saying this is not good and fair. i do not see republicans saying anything about it. is this how it is supposed to be? the election is in november and trump is supposed to be in georgia and arizona campaigning trying to change the country and he is being bought down in new york. finally i watch the news media last night on cnn. there were seven panelists against trump and only one panelist for trump discussing the trial. is that your definition of fairness in the media, seven against one? thank you. host: godfrey in canada. guest: great plains. i do not think it is fairness. c-span is fair. you have someone on the right and the left on and then you have people decide. about the sham, the sham trial in new york, this is ridiculous and it will not stand up well in

history. they are payable -- there are people left of center who acknowledge how ridiculous it is. it just has a political purpose to bog him down and steal his time and resources and for their purposes put a convicted felon label that joe biden can use. in terms of the election i think the fundamental dynamic is on the core questions, who has been a better president, who do you trust on the issues that matter most. on those trump is ahead and that is a big deal. what biden has is the more peripheral stuff, he might be a convicted felon, his truth social posts are awful and he has said terrible things. it will be hard with those questions for the more peripheral matters. it is a close race and it will probably be a close race. republicans are quite confident about the race.

what should undermine the confidence, a lot of us were confident in 2022 where the basic dynamics seem to hold and setting up as a good republican year and it turned out not to be. if you are republican you have to be a little nervous even though trump is a step ahead. host: you talk about core and peripheral issues. do you recall are what -- do you recall what the core and peripheral issues were the last time the two faced off. what were the core and peripheral issues? guest: trump is the incumbent so his important -- his performance was a core. last year people did not like him very much. they did not think he handled covid well. it is amazing how the pandemic is in the rearview mirror. it is difficult to remember what the environment was like. but when you looked at the exit polls, so many are about covid and attitudes towards covid and the handling of covid and trump did not have good ratings on that.

i think he left office with 44% approval waiting -- rating which is loser territory which is why he lost the election. what has happened since then it appears that people are discounting last year and they realize now that this is a once in a century event and that anybody who would have had trouble dealing with it would have had trouble. they are focusing on the three years where the results were the most favorable and making a relative judgment against but we have been seeing from biden. biden's approval rating is 40%. host: 38% according to the latest poll at 5:38. guest: yes. that is not a survivable number in isolation but it might be because trump is radioactive himself and his favorable ratings are equal at with trump and both are unpopular and there is a lot of material for democrats to work with against him but biden has his work cut out for him. host: new jersey.

efraim. good morning. are you with us? caller: yes. they forget very quickly what happens. colleges should not protest -- should protest peacefully and -- this is a wonderful country they should carry the american flag and protest peacefully. people forget very quickly what has happened when they started hijacking the plane. and what everybody did for all of the security. now, thanks to israel, what they are doing they are trying to limit hamas and make sure they do not spread like cancer and they should not support hamas. they should peacefully demonstrate and that is it.

host: anything you want to follow up on? guest: i cannot quite pick it all up. but i think i agreed with the general drift. host: henry, michigan. line for democrats good morning. caller: donald trump is a criminal and nobody makes up 91 charges to prosecute him on. we saw the boxes at mar-a-lago of classified material that he refused to return. we saw how he took his entourage to state and his golf properties. so no, these trials are real. that is not why i called. rich, you and i know that the israeli intelligence is one of the best in the world. our own intelligence, it has been widely reported that both our intelligence and israeli intelligence told benjamin

netanyahu that the hamas attacks were imminent. so, netanyahu allowed these attacks to happen so that he could get his troubles pushed to the side and remain in power and not go to jail. rich, i appreciate it if you would explain to the american people who been given year --ben gavier,, netanyahu and their right-wing government and their hatred of palestinians and reticence to have a two state solution. i want you to start talking about truth. host: i think you got the point. rich. guest: yet -- caller: yes, that is a big question. why didn't they take the intelligence more seriously and this needs to be investigated. what happens is that once you are dog into a certain us -- dug

into a certain discussion, it is human nature, evidence has trouble penetrating it. stalin was warned hitler's was coming within weeks or days and he did not believe it. look at the start of world war ii and the west. germans do a faint -- feint in the war and we are seeing tanks coming through and the french did not believe it because they were so convinced. it is in the north and we see it in the north so there must be something wrong. i imagine that was a dynamic, it is a huge thing that netanyahu has to answer for. just quickly on the charges. you can make up 94 or whatever charges. certainly in new york. you had two misdemeanors and then the statute of limitations had expired on them having to do with bookkeeping in 2017 and then you make it a felony by saying it is in the commission of some other crime that you

have trouble specifying. and then you charge every keystroke related to these alleged crimes. rather than having two misdemeanors you get 34 felonies. they are totally, certainly in new york, manufactured. host: how do you feel about the other three cases? guest: i think the january 6 case, what trump did after the election was terrible and impeachable and a classic case of what the founders imagine should be dealt with through impeachment. i understand democrats being frustrated that he was not convicted in the senate and they are trying to distort the law to make it a crime. i do not think it is a crime. i do not like that case at all. the georgia one also just wrecks of statute, the idea that there was some organized crime outfit in georgia is ridiculous.

i am not a fan of that one. where he is quite dead to rights in my view is that classified documents. i do not think he charge the underlying offense because you run into hypocrisy with biden or hilary not being charged but then you have obstruction related to the classified documents. to me, that is the one that is the strongest and the most damming. host: said that case move forward before the election and showed the american people get a decision on that case before they go to the voting booth? guest: i think it is really problematic to do these trials before the election. it is just wrong for prosecutors jack smith, especially to clearly have a political calendar in mind to try and force these things before the election. we see this in the january 6 case which looks like it will not put -- not take place before the election where defenders say it is important for the american people to know if he did this stuff. we know, we have a factual record.

it is not as though there are evidentiary questions up in the air, we know what happened. the public has that information extensively on the record and can make judgments based on a. what you do not know is if jack smith will be able to torture the law in such a case that adc jury finds him guilty and perhaps after the election trump wins in an appeal. to me that is not necessary to know. the only reason it is happening, i am not alleging conspiracy, but if there was a poll that existed that said if you tried trump and convicted it will help him become president of the united states again, all of these cases would go away and all of a sudden prosecutorial description -- discretion would say this is a matter of prudence. host: shay, baltimore, maryland. republican line. about 10 minutes left. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call.

this is a question for your guest, a quick question in regard to american and israeli relations. if we go back to the 90's, the early 90's and the collapse of the soviet union, america became the dominant superpower in the world from the 90's until now which is about 40 years. we have gone from being a dominant to declining power and we spend all this time in the middle east, especially fighting and israeli war and invading other countries on behalf of israel. we have violated every principle and everything that we stand for, human rights, freedom of speech and everything that we claim to stand for. we have done that in protection of israel. let us bring it back home. today we have american officials suppressing american citizens rights. the students and the colleges are absolutely right. they are not protected and they

are not protecting the jewish people. they are protesting what is going on in gaza and the genocide and atrocities. and we have our own government officials going against our citizens in favor of a foreign government. so my question to you is -- host: rich. guest: yes, of course i totally reject that as a smear of israel. in terms of the wars in the middle east, the biggest one was the second iraq war. you talk to anyone in israel they said do not do it. we do not want it and it will not end well and do not do it. the idea that the war was on behalf of israel is completely wrong. the war was in a terror attack in the united states that shock to the system, understandably. afghanistan went relatively easily and we thought we could transform the middle east by taking out saddam hussein. he deserved to be taken out but

it ended up being a more costly venture than we could have possibly imagined. that is not on israel. on free speech rights again going back to that. you do not have a right to any legal encampment which is why some of these questions about should this be permitted or is it against the rules on a campus, those are subtle questions that have free speech implications but trespassing does not. it goes back to the university of chicago example, unfurl the flag and have the table and rent a lecture hall and have somebody come in and say how great hamas is. all of that is free speech but trespassing is not. host: due degree -- do you agree that you are -- that we are a declining power. guest: relative. in absolute terms we are not. clearly china has risen for all sorts of reasons in the past decades and is now a greater threat than the soviet union

was. but you know, the thing about this when the caller said for 40 years we were the sole superpower. in world history 40 years is a pretty good run. it is not as though that was going to last forever. there was going to be challengers or a challenger. and we have both of those. host: eugene, oregon. larry. independent. good morning. caller: good morning i would like to say thank god for the protesters. i am not sure that the public would know anything about the truth of the palestine relations with israel without the protesters. the reason they are there is the same reason that we protested, and i say we i was in berkeley in 1968 and i was a student protesting against the war in vietnam which killed a good friend of mine, by the way. we could have saved lives if people had listened to us

instead of vilifying us. the same thing is going on now. foreign policy is off the rails. we should not be providing any weapons to anyone. we are simply fueling fires around the world that need to be dampened, not expanded. our foreign policy has become ever more cruel and stupid and costly. wall street loves it, the rest of us are sick of it. have a good one. host: i think we lost larry. guest: yes. he had a lot in there all of which i disagree with. let us go back to 1968. the protests seek to persuade and usually what they do is associate themselves with the ideals and the nation's symbols and then there are protests that are against the american system in order -- as such. and the 1968 protests tilted

towards the latter, they created a backlash, understandably and appropriately and rightly and helped to elect richard nixon. and because these protesters today also they are really anti-western. most of them are anti-american. they have a deep disaffection from this country that they make clear. that they make obvious. most people will not like that. the scale is not as big as 1968. that the margins that absolutely helps donald trump. host: is very modern antiwar protest that you can think about that you think did it the right way, that did not create a backlash against what they were trying to protests? guest: well, not antiwar movement but the civil rights movement, they absolutely embraced the american flag. they made their arguments in the context ideals and great

american document especially the declaration of independence. and the fact that they were right, accounted for the power of that movement. that is what i would cite. host: less than five minutes. kelly, rome, georgia on the line for republicans. caller: good morning c-span, thank you for taking my call. i have a question. it is -- i have heard your georgia commentary for year. what do you think about the equivalence of the trump impeachment and now with biden threatening to do this? i know that he would not be in -- i know that you would not be in the senate for the trial but i wonder what you think about it. host: that is kelly and her dog in georgia. guest: so republicans are making this parallel.

there is something to it and i would not exaggerate it. but you know congress appropriated funds for ukraine and trot -- and trump paused them and then release them. the charge was that it was for a really latent self-serving political purpose, to try and get derogatory information about the bidens that would be useful in the campaign. there is a political purpose to what biden is doing as well. duly appropriated funds for israel, and just like two weeks ago it was supposed to be a huge deal and mike johnson had to do it if he had any conscious and here biden has paused it with and i to these protesters. it is not as direct or obviously individually self-serving. political motive or alleging political movement -- motive. i doubt he will get impeached over it and as the caller said even if it did it would not go

anywhere in the senate. host: i am not sure we got into it, but what did you think about the aid package, 61 billion dollars for ukraine, $26 billion for israel and another $8 billion in aid for taiwan? guest: i support it. it is very important, all those countries are allies or de facto allies that need our support. and ukraine was under pressure and is still under pressure before -- from russia and it does not make sense for me that here is a war where our ally wants to fight it and they do not want american or any other boots on the ground. they just want the artillery shells and the weapons that will help them defend themselves against a hostile adversary, of the united states that invaded for no good reason and would probably have a nato country or

two and it cites if it were to succeed -- and its sights. $61 billion is also spoke -- to support u.s. troops already sent over in the broader region to send a message to russia and that sort of thing, and an important aspect of it is funds for revitalizing the u.s. defense industrial base which over the last 30 years has disastrously deteriorated. it is true that supplying ukraine is straining our stocks but we should be in a position where supporting an ally in a relatively minor war does not totally run us drive. we need to be able to make more shells and more precision munitions and more ships and repair submarines more quickly and we cannot at the moment. host: time for maybe one more call. mike in keyport, new jersey. independent. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say when charlotte happened it was

documented and those people were marching on my television with hate speech and antisemitism and they were there for probably like a week. all you got is graffiti and allegations. if you are so right, take your phone and documents and give the people hard evidence. i think you do not want to because if the people really heard what the protesters were saying they would agree. host: final minute or two. guest: yes. that is not true. go back to columbia somebody is shouting go back to poland at a jewish student. none of these people, show me the video of people condemning hamas at these protests or condemning october 7. it does not exist. the organizers of these protests, you look at their mission statements and materials. they want israel to cease to

exist, that is a goal. they think any means necessary to achieving the goal is legitimate. the strong implication is terrorism is legitimate. that is what this is about. and if you just look at the evidence, you will see it there. host: we will live it there -- leave it there. rich lowry is the editor at national review and a good follow on x and we appreciate your time. guest: thank you so much. host: coming up in about 30 minutes this morning, we will talk with former democratic congressman richard gephardt about efforts to pass the kids online safety act, but first, it is the open forum. many public policy or political issues, the phone lines are yours, and you can start calling in. the numbers are on your screen and we will get to calls after the break. ♪

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unfiltered congressional coverage for 45 years. here is a highlight from a key moment. >> something else i saw firsthand was not a surprise to me but it was the outpouring of love from you my colleagues. both republican and democrat. i know that right after the shooting we were practicing on the republican side and the democrats were practicing. and my colleague and friend and sometimes our tribal and baseball from back home in new orleans, unfortunately the start of the game too many times, somehow figured out which hospital i was sent to and got there probably the first person on the scene in his baseball uniform to check on me. so many others of you, both republican and democrat reached out in ways that i cannot express the gratitude and how much it means to me, jennifer, and the whole family. it really does show the warm side of congress that very few

people get to see. >> c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: here is where we are on capitol hill. the senate works latent of the night last night to pass a the faa reauthorization bill along with a one-week extension of the current funding plan to get the house time the chance to take up the bill today. the house and senate will both meet and brief pro forma sessions and you can watch that and c-span. some of the other coverage that you might be interested in, a discussion at the brookings institution on president biden's tax policy priorities. his national economic advisor leo brainard -- lael binard will be taking place. also today the affordable

housing conference of montgomery county in myld will hold its 33rd annual housing summit and congressman jamie raskin and congressman ivey expecting to joinhecting housing seetary talking about issues impart -- impacting affordable housing. that event is live on c-span, c-span.org and the free c-span now video app. for the next 30 minutes it is the open forum on the washington journal. any public policy issue or political issue you want to talk about, it is 202-748-8000 for democrats. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. starting on the line for republicans in philly. this is adam. good morning. caller: hey, good morning. i am going to say that i called in a little too late to try and speak to rich lowry. i have been a subscriber to national review since a young

man, a long time ago now. there is some irony in listening to him talk this morning when he speaks about nobody having the right to an illegal encampment when in fact there is many profitable businesses advertising land from palestinian settlers land to israeli settlers. it is also ironic for me to hear mr. row -- mr. lowry discussed the civil rights unit -- movement not just because it was the right to do and it took a lot of work and organization. one of the key -- one of the people who went to jail was martin luther king jr. and he talked about the white moderate, who ironically mr. lowry founds himself as because he is not part of the maga class in general. what i would also like to say is mr. lowry is very clever when he

points out that there is no video at the people of the encampments disavowing. but he leaves out conveniently that as those people organized as people in the civil rights movement did they agree to have a no media policy. part of the reason why there is no video footage of the people saying that you have to go there and have skin in the game. host: you are a subscriber to national review, do you agree with most of what is in there and are you a fan of the magazine? caller: i like to subscribe to a wide variety of periodicals. as a younger man i felt myself to be a conservative. as the window has shifted to the right throughout the course of my lifetime, i do not know where i stand anymore. i am still a registered republican. but at this time i do not know who represents me. and i do not know who mr. lowry thinks he works for in terms of the party he grew up believing

he was a part of. host: that is adam in philadelphia. i would just mention that you bring up martin luther king jr. the book "king: a life" was the winner of a 2024 pulitzer prize announced earlier this week. c-span booktv attended several events and we will be airing one of those on booktv on sunday on c-span2. it is about an hour and 10 minute event with jonathan speaking in atlanta, georgia at the jimmy carter presidential library about his book. if you want to watch that, again, c-span2 at 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. ron in johnstown, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning, john. last night on msnbc, alex really

opened my eyes because the republicans are saying that biden is the first time this has ever happened with israel withholding arms. that is not true because ronald reagan did that with bacon when he was --baegan when he was in office. host: are you talking about the m-16 fighters? caller: i do not know who they were fighting because i only caught part of the discussion. host: so the military actions in beirut in 1981. and the parallels in history brought up in "the wall street journal" today, the decision to delivered -- to delay the delivery of f-16 planes. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to bring that up because biden is not the first president to do that.

so, you have to be fair in reporting. the other thing is i agree with bernie sanders. he is jewish and i am sure he is not anti-semitic. anyhow, the hamas organization is probably an outgrowth of the way the israelis have been treating palestinians all of these years and stealing land and things like that. i mean it is one of those things that should be reported fairly. this is making everyone sound like the palestinians are the bad guys. and it is not true. i think more people should really study their history and that is my comment for today. thank you. host: ron out of the keystone state. to the lone star state. willie. republican. caller: good morning. amazing, you had rich lowry on and it was kind of too bad i did

not get a chance to talk to him. i am going to get into of -- some of the things you should have done with c-span. one of the things is that you bring rich lowry on and he was in there for a couple of months ago. you need to get more people in there who will give you the actual facts of what is going on, particularly with these trials. i recommend to you julie kelly or john salant or anyone like that in particular because rich lowry was there and he was going on and on about the january 6 and mar-a-lago trial and all of that stuff and there are lots of new information that has come out about the conspiracy, the outright conspiracy to get the president and defeat him. and it is amazing because rich

lowry did not mention anything about that. he went on with the trial as if for crying out loud it was just like starting months ago. we have new developments and people like julie kelly will spell those out in a heartbeat. host: and i think it was monday on the show that mollie crane newman of "the new york daily news" and manhattan court reporter came to talk about the week ahead and we had done the previous thing the previous monday -- a similar thing the previous monday. we always -- we always appreciate additional suggestions for various guest. this is johnny, oregon. independent. good morning. caller: yes, i just want to talk to c-span and i know that none of my comments will change any minds. i just want to express my views

and give some relief. a few things to touch on concerning the israeli-hamas war. number one, some people believe that there is some moral superiority in nations compared -- in america compared to russia. america does not have any moral superiority and it just depends on who the victim is in any situation. and i remember trump made a comment or putin said that america also kills people and then trump said well, you are also innocent? he has just proving that to be right. that this kind of appearance of our superiority does not apply in any situation.

that is my concern about this war which is exposing the other issue. which is that kids on campus is and they are not pro-palestinian. they like to label people and put a negative connotation -- negative connotation. they are just antiwar. i know that there were antiwar protesters when bush 2 was trying to start the iraqi war. they did not call them pro-saddam hussein or pro iraqi they were just antiwar. so the media rotating -- portraying these kids as pro-palestinian they appear as pro-terrorists. so that trend should be dropped to reflect what they are saying. host: is there a difference between being pro-palestinian and pro-hamas?

caller: well, i do not know the difference. i think, you know, not every palestinian is a hamas person. so, for them to label them as or put them as the same sentence as pro pump -- pro-hamas or pro-palestinian creates a negative connotation in my opinion. if they are able to label them as antiwar than i think those negative things will be left. my final point is that gaza is this on the phone speakers. with all of that technology, i don't understand why they cannot know the culprit. they are bombing everybody who

lives in gaza because they must be hamas so let's just kill everybody in our way. we have enough technology to be able to find osama bin laden in some village somewhere in afghanistan and all of those criminals, i am sure we can find all of those hamas leaders in an area the size of las vegas. with israel and all the world watching while they kill innocent people. thank you. host: it is just past 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we are on our open forum. any political issue you want to talk about we have phone lines for democrats, republicans and independents. i want to take you to the pages of the new york times. a california congressman who

raise the flag of rebellion against president richard and president nixon's war policies died on wednesday this week in his home in california. he was 96. his death announced in a statement, "he resided in san francisco. he was a liberal republican who admired john f. kennedy, voted for environmental causes and believed that the republican party had veered too far to the right. with the nation divided over the war and a nation heavily favored for reelection, mr. mclachlan -- mccloskey launched his quest for the republican nomination. he failed in that quest. peter mccloskey died this week."

benny, kentucky, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. i hate that i missed mr. lowry because i wanted to respond to some things he said. i have two comments. the issue as far as this war and biden wanting this cease fire, most americans want israel to cease fire. this is the united states of america. we have palestinians who live in the united states of america and their families are over there. we have allies who are palestinians. americans do not like to see women and children dying. none of us want to see that. we are at a high rate of innocent being killed over there. when people say let israel do what they need to do, if they

were killing terrorists and doing what they need to do, americans would not have a problem with that but there are a lot of innocence dying over there. that is an issue. the other thing that rich lowry said, these crimes are shams, it is upsetting. when donald trump was in office and he was impeached, they said wait for him to get out and let the criminal justice system take care of him. now all of these things he has done, they are minimizing it. all the republicans who blamed donald trump are now willing to put him back into office. that is very upsetting to a lot of us because he broke the law. he broke the law multiple times. even this trial that is going on now that they say is minimum or it is so outdated, they signed

those papers and falsified those documents. he needs to be held accountable. anybody else would be held accountable. i am tired of them minimizing and making light of what is going on with donald trump. when donald trump was the president, i did not vote for him but when he became president he was our president. people just need to have backbone especially republicans and call him out because they are very few doing that. host: you are from louisville, kentucky. what are your thoughts on senate minority leader mitch mcconnell in relation to what you are talking about, republicans who are willing to call out donald trump when he was president. mitch mcconnell had several run-ins with donald trump. what did you think of him? caller: it is so upsetting to me. mitch mcconnell stood up in the

senate and said what he said and refused to impeach donald trump he said because he had left office. he was no longer the president so impeachment is not the venue. the criminal justice system is. he is willing to vote for donald trump. my thing with that is you can vote for donald trump but donald trump throws everybody out of the bus when they disagree with him. what are you going to do when he does not do the policies that you want him to do and now you don't want him there and he will say fake news to you too when you don't want him there anymore and he will push you aside, throw you under the bus because people are under donald trump's and. republicans are under donald trump's control. that was benny --

host: that was benny in kentucky. this is james in california, independent. good morning. caller: thank you. i saw the senator from florida whose last name was scott who showed up at the trial of donald trump and i wonder if we will have all the representatives showing up at everybody's trial. donald trump has plenty of representation and i don't like it when some senator throws in his two cents. where is this going? it is a clown show, that trial. what i have seen so far, it is a clown show that i have not seen in a long time. host: the picture from politico, senator rick scott from florida, the republicans speaking outside of the manhattan criminal court on may 9 this week. he attended the former presidents criminal trial on thursday. this is earl in seneca falls,

new york. open forum. what's on your mind? caller: good morning. first, if it were not for judaism we would not have christianity or the islamic faith. those in iran who are backing the terrorist organizations in yemen, gaza, lebanon, they don't want the jewish people to live. 80 two-state solution will not work -- a two-state solution will not work until those organizations are gone. as for ukraine, we need to back those people because they lived under communism.

they don't want to be oppressed again. thank you for taking my call. have a good day and week. host: henry in the old dominion, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes. caller: i wanted to talk to that mr. lowry guy. host: i wish we had him for longer. caller: we cannot get everybody. when he was talking about mr. trump and not having time to go to the campaign, i always thought that in the united states everyone was entitled to a speedy trial. he is the one who delays all of his trials. that is his game plan, delay.

in the time that people should -- he should go campaign, nobody will pay these expensive lawyers if they were innocent. they would want a speedy trial. not him. he wants to drag it. why don't you want to get it over with? thank you very much for your time. host: christian in charleston, independent. good morning. caller: i just wanted to comment on things that i feel like public policy could help with. i am glad people are sorry to realize how certain actions that the government in israel is doing or like atrocities when the government tells them to

evacuate, i feel like people will listen to the protesters. if the news agencies would cover the student protests in a more honest way like the reality of them being nonviolent and the fact that the police and the fascist counter protesters are the only violent parties, i feel like maybe if there was more honesty in government and people just wake up to those realities. hopefully public policy would reflect that. host: there are a lot of schools in charleston. are you a student? caller: at a technical college, yes. host: have you participated in the protests? caller: there have not been a lot of demonstrations like that around here. but i would. i have marched for things that are right. host: what have you marched for in the past? caller: there was black lives

matter marches in charleston, walks around public squares and stuff like that. but yeah. i feel like activism is important. i feel like people should realize and think about these protests in the past like for the vietnam war, a lot of older people will be like, there was a lot wrong with that war. but they don't see the same things happening nowadays. it is the same thing. some of the smartest people in our country at some of the best schools in our country are telling us that we need to rethink things and look at things and our politicians are more concerned with what they want to do than people who are probably smarter than them. host: rich lowry was just on and

he talked about how the 1968 vietnam war protest helped create a backlash, a move for law and order and that helped richard nixon get elected in 1968, equating it to today saying that these anti-israel war protests on college campuses will create a backlash. it will be a law and order issue that rises up and that will help donald trump in 2024. what do you think of that? caller: i think it can be propagandized. there can be good propaganda. there can be propaganda to lock up people who are doing crime if there is corruption. either way, people can spin it. there are think tanks, write legislation and all the legislators have to do is say, i am a lawyer and i would like to

run for office. do you have any positions? the democrat or republican parties will cherry pick good candidates, run them and they just pick loss from the think tanks and other big political bodies. there are people who will spin things. there are a lot of people like us on piker who streams -- ha ssan piper who will stream at a protest. people will say horrible things. they will throw things. they pepper spray people. the mainstream media, not all of them, they will be like the protesters got violent so the police had to come. when the police come, they start pushing people around and making things worse.

all of the student protesters, they just take away the 10 people with sticks at 2:00 in the morning out of nowhere when they have been nowhere all day and they start beating on people. it is crazy. that is what i mean when i say -- sorry, i'm getting emotional. mainstream media is spinning things and they need to show who is really peaceful and who is violent. host: we will take your point. we are running short on time. dave, pennsylvania, republican. caller: hello. that last call was absolutely right. even c-span, you have the ability right there are no computer at any time -- you have the ability right there on your computer to be able to see the videos and information that we

want to share. host: what do you want to share? caller: yet, you are only pushing your few newspapers for information that you seem to still think is valid and we don't. the reason i called was to ask you and the callers how they feel about all of the united states government officials that currently have dual citizenship with israel and how that could affect all of the decisions that are being made right now. if you need examples, i will happily give them to you if you would accept information from the callers and have a way for you to just see things. let's start with janet yellen. she has dual citizenship. attorney general merrick garland , mayor arcus, -- mayorkas, the secretary of state, secretary of state for political affairs,

david cohen, they all have dual citizenship with israel. host: we are running short on time. that is dave in pennsylvania, last caller in open forum. a reminder ain on our programming schedule today, the house and senate in a pro forma session today. you can see other events including a discussion on the biden administration's tax policy priorities with national economic advisor greenert. that is taking place 10:30 a.m. on c-span, c-span.org and the c-span app at 1:10 today, an foable housing conference inarand. the acting housing secretary will be at that event. you can watch on c-span,

c-span.org. 1:10 is when that program will take place. that time has changed just in the past hour or so. that will do it for open forum. up next we will be joined by former congressman richard gephardt. we will talk about kids safety online, an issue he has taken up in his time since leaving congress. stick around for that discussion. we will be right back.. >> nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts. listen to best-selling authors and influential interviewers on the after words podcast. on q&a here conversations with nonfiction authors who are making things happen. book notes plus episodes are weekly conversations that feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. on the about books podcast,

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powered by cable. >>. washington journal continues. host: viewers are probably most familiar with richard gephardt from his time in congress, his campaigns for the democratic presidential nomination. these days he is focused on kids online safety. what is issue one and how did you get involved with this project of keeping kids safe online? guest: great to be here this morning. issue one is a group that has been around for a long time. it is made up of lots of diverse bipartisan people, a lot of former members of congress but we have many others who are involved and it has traditionally looked at trying to reform congress, campaign finance reform, things like

that. lately it has been focused on a national council for election integrity to make sure we can have valid, trusted elections in america. the part i have been most involved with is called counsel for responsible social media. our effort is to get some guardrails around the way social media operates so it does not harm kids, first of all. and then our ability to continue to be a democracy, second. and third, national security. we are working hard every day to try to get some legislation passed in congress on those subjects and we are making good progress. i am encouraged about where we are right now. host: that legislation in the form of the kids online safety act. would that provide the guardrails of that very wide universe of social media that you are looking for? guest: absolutely.

it is a bipartisan bill. it has 60 cosponsors in the senate. senator blumenthal and senator blackburn have been working hard on it for a number of years. it has three basic provisions that are really important. one is it puts a duty of care on the platforms. it requires them to mitigate e- harms that we know and they all know are happening to kids. secondly, it sets up default settings on their computer or their phone so that minors have the strongest safety settings. and third, there are accountability annual audits that are required on the platforms to see that they are complying with the majors in this bill. the problem we are facing is that the suicide rate among

young people has tripled in the last 10 years. now you cannot say that it is all social media but it is a significant part of the problem. child psychologists, child psychiatrists will tell you today that the way social media operates is harming our children, leading them into mental problems, depression and even suicide. we have three mothers on our counsel whose kids killed themselves because of being drugged by algorithms on social media into websites or offerings that encourage them to commit suicide. if kids go on asking questions about eating disorders or being depressed or even killing themselves, these websites drag

them into, with algorithms, drag them into -- like the choke challenge that eventually leads them to suicide. this is a real problem. it is affecting children every day and parents know about it and they are worried about it and they need some help. they cannot govern this themselves. they need help from the industry to make it safer for children. host: richard gephardt with us until the end of our program to talk about this topic. let me get the phone lines for folks to call in. if you have questions or want to share your stories, (202) 748-8000 eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 in the mountain or pacific time zones. a phone line for parents to call in to talk about this issue of

kids safety online, we want to hear your stories. (202) 748-8003 is that number. just coming back to the kids online safety act, you mentioned a duty of care. it sounds like a legal term. what does that mean if that requirement were placed on some of these social media networks? guest: it really requires the platforms to basically look at their algorithmic behavior in the first instance to see if it is causing harm to children. back in the day in the 1990's i voted when i was in congress for something we called section 230. it made the platforms immune for legal liability for harms created by any of the content on their platforms.

what the platforms argued to us was that if you don't make us immune, you will never have an internet economy. secondly they said, we don't put any content on our platform. the people do. maybe they are liable but we cannot be liable. we bought those arguments and we passed section 230. they are the only industry in the country that is free completely free from legal liability for their behavior. and they are no longer a dumb pipe. they are an intelligent pipe because they use algorithms, that's what we used to call ai, to boost information to keep you angry, anxious and upset so they keep your attention so their ads are more valuable. i am a capitalist. i want everyone to make money. if your method of making money

is endangering the health and safety of children, it has to be changed. the government has to come in with a duty of care to require these platforms to really look at their behavior and how it is causing harm to kids. host: the editorial board at the washington post today taking up the issue of kids online safety and smartphones specifically. they go through a couple of stats on teens and kids on social media. i want to read a few of them. nearly one in five teens say they use social media almost constantly. 42% of high school students in a 2021 center for disease control and prevention study reported persistent feelings of sadness and hopelessness. 18% said they needed suicide plans in the past year. teenage girls are especially at risk. it is the call for hanging up the smartphones that kids use so

often. dick gephardt, when do you think a kid should have a smartphone and should they be allowed in high schools or in schools at all? guest: that is a very important question and debate that is going on probably in every household in america. there are bills that call for the denial of use of social platforms, social media platforms by children under the age of 13 or 15 or whatever. bills going through state legislatures zach long, an old colleague of mine and a great guy from the house days. we went to minnesota two weeks ago to talk to legislators there about passing a kids online safety act in minnesota, a bill like that just past in maryland

and was signed today, i think, by the governor of maryland. vermont has passed a bill. this question is going on everywhere. what mothers and fathers tell us is that try as they might to get these phones away from their kids, it is part of their life. it is the way they communicate. and they would almost die if you took the phone away. parents are trying hard to keep their kids safe. these mothers on our counsel work over time to keep their kids from going into these that areas and these bad places that would harm them. but in the end they just did not do it, they could not do it. they are begging congress and state legislatures to help them, and you know, there is precedent

for this kind of thing. look, when cars were first invented i guess by henry ford or somebody 150 years ago, there were no government regulations on automobiles for safety, the environment, or anything. now it is accepted by everybody that that was a good thing to do, to put regulations on the way you produce automobiles for the safety of the public. we did the same with airplanes and we have done the same with finance and food. we have done the same with drugs. this is not a radical or unprecedented move. this is needed for the safety of kids. look, i have been on five public boards since i was in congress, i know the compulsion on

companies to make quarterly earnings, i get it. i love our system of capitalism, it is the best system for economics in the world. but, you have to have some reasonable safeguards on how products are produced, how products are distributed. so that it is safe for the people that are using these products. host: half an hour left. let me let you chat with a few parents who already called in as you and i have been chatting. krista in south carolina on the line for parents. good morning. >> good morning and thank you for having this. this is my first time calling. my question and a comment is that recently in europe, the parliament passed some really strict guidelines for the social

media there. and so, i was wondering is a bill that you guys are currently proposing similar to that? and commenting on that is -- they are already, meaning the corporations and companies instagram and facebook, they are already having to make those adjustments for europe. it seems like if we follow suit it will not be a big adjustment for the corporations. maybe just for americans to get used to it. host: we will let him take that up. but you are a parent. what are your online safety rules for your kids? caller: well, my children are older now, but i will say my youngest is going to graduate from high school this year. he is one of, unfortunately, the thousands of children that have

reaped the unfortunate consequences of covid, the phone and isolation. we just took the phone away. he does not have a phone. we took the computer away. and you know, he is 18. and i hate to say it, he is an adult but he still lives under our house. he is trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life, that i do not think that things -- they definitely contribute. and in schools in south carolina all legislature is now working on trying to look at bills to restrict phones and cell phones in schools, which is 100% necessary. we have kids who are worried about videotaping the lunch room or what is going on and videotaping -- they are making fun of each other in the classroom.

like texting while the teacher is talking. i cannot even imagine. they should not have them in school i believe or put them up when -- in each room and then the teacher can have those know that they are away and get them back or something. but it causes a big problem. think about how you can cheat. it is just -- host: thank you for talking about it. caller: you are welcome, i appreciate it. host: on her rules for her family but also on this law that is -- the bill being proposed and whether it is similar to the european law. guest: krista, great questions and yes. my answer is that europe has pretty much been ahead of us on a lot of this stuff. they have passed transparency legislation, they have passed privacy legislation, and they have passed legislation to make

it better for kids. probably the reason is that the company is that our the problem -- are the problem here are american companies so it has been harder for us to get attention paid to this in congress and state legislatures. but it is truly beginning to happen. you are right that if the companies have to comply with european standards and rules it will make it easier for them to do it if we get similar rules and are bills that we are working on are similar. they might not be quite as strong, but they are very similar to what has been put into law in europe. the last thing i would say to krista is that she is like so many parents who are trying to protect their kids by taking the phone away and i am hearing more

and more schools are saying kids cannot bring the phone into their classroom. and i am set -- i am thinking this will be a continuing trend and this will really help as well. look. social media has only been around for 12 to 13 years. this is new. and it takes time for people to adjust to know how to use it and how to be safe with it. so, we are making progress. it is not fast enough but we need to help parents in this really important challenge. host: another parent. arthur in maryland. thank you for waiting. caller: hello, it is an honor to speak with you. i am a 21-year-old -- 21 year veteran in the military and i have a 12-year-old son and i am concerned about my son being on his phone in school. more than that what i am concerned about is the

unprecedented control that we are giving these companies to impact our politics. what i really worry about is that my son will live in a dictatorship because of all of the disinformation and the manipulation of our population that is unprecedented. the truth can go around the world at the speed of light while a lie is going -- a lie can go around the speed of light while the truth is putting its pants on. it frustrates me that we are talking about this when we really should be trusting -- talking about taking away the liability protection that these companies enjoy. i will take my answer off air. guest: thank you so much and i totally agree with what this gentleman just said. you know, the reason i got interested in this whole area was not just kids, although i was worried about it. i have kids and grandkids who are in the crosshairs of this.

but i began to wonder what has changed in the politics. i was in congress for 28 years and i went door-to-door in my district in missouri religiously, day and night whenever i was in st. louis. and i had town hall almost every other week. and we had all of the issues you have today. we had conspiracy theories, racism, guns, abortion, hatred and blah, blah, blah, but people did not hate one another and i began to wonder why are people not just disagreeing with one another on political views, but hating one another. not wanting to be in the same community with each other. and so i began to read everything i could. i have never been on social

media so i did not quite understand the way it works. i read everything and talked to a lot of experts. i came to the view that the way that the social media company is operate -- companies operate. you have to start with if you are on a social media platform they know everything about you. fox news does not know everything about you. "the new york times" does not know everything about you. nbc does not know everything about you. they know everything about you, they scrape your data every day. they know who you talk to what you buy, and what you are interested in and what you care about. so they use ai, we used to call it algorithms, to boost to you information to keep you angry, anxious and upset. so, the ads keep the attention and the ads are therefore more

valuable. in case you haven't noticed, newspapers are about gone. linear tv is on its way out. people under 45 get all of their information from social media. and they have no idea that these platforms are using ai to put to them and boost to them information to keep them really upset. it has become an outrage machine , a hate machine. and for the life of me, you cannot have a democracy if half the people hate the other half and vice versa. people cannot even have thanksgiving dinners. families, because they are so hateful of one another within the family. this is crazy. we have always had disagreements. that is what you do in a democracy.

you resolve those disagreements because you continue to respect one another. no matter what your views. so, this is a real problem, and it is tough to solve because we have to have freedom of speech. and one other thing i want to say is that these platforms are not all bad. social media is not all bad. there is a lot of good that has come from it. it allows families to interact, friends to interact. people who do not even know the -- do not even know one another to interact and do zoom calls and etc. there is a lot of good. but the bad is bad. it is hurting kids and it is hurting our democracy and our national security. so we need general guardrails. so what the gentleman mentioned about section 230 we generally

agree. maybe we should not resend it but we ought to amendment -- amend it so they are reliable -- liable for their algorithmic behavior and it is causing harm to anyone. host: about 15 minutes left this morning. on social media, mark stone tweeting along as many viewers do throughout the program each day. "it sounds like the kids onli safety act would be a good thing how are you going to enforce it? every time some to gets on facebook and instagram they have to prove they are 18 years of age by clicking a yes button? it is another law that cannot be enforced. guest: yes. we go further than we have done in the past. there is a duty and care on the platforms. it requires them to mitigate the key harms. let me say this about that. these platforms know what they

are doing. this is not a surprise. we have two people on the council who came from the platforms, who were involved in the platforms with trying to change their algorithmic behavior so they did not harm kids. the platform leadership refused to do this. we had a senate judiciary hearing two or three months ago that maybe some of you saw on tv. and it had all of the ceo's of the platforms. and we had 30 or 40 parents of kids who have killed themselves all dressed in black with colored pictures of their children on their laps. and senator hawley of missouri asked mark zuckerberg, the ceo

of meta, which used to be because -- called facebook whether or not he thought the way they operated their platform was causing mental problems with young people. he flatly denied it. he said that there studies indicated that it was not. i am sorry, they know better. they know and they have been warned. they just will not do it until we passed some guardrails. so there is a duty of care that is annually audited so that we can see whether or not they are really doing what they are required to do and there are default settings, not that you have to go on and say i do not want you to scrape my data and i do not want -- use your bad algorithms on me, so that by

default, minors are moved to the strongest safety settings that you can have on a platform. so, is it perfect, no. we have to have freedom of speech and we have to work within that, but this is a good bill, it is a great step. there might be more steps needed, but we have to get something passed this year. that is our goal at crsm, the council for responsible social media. we work on it every day. i go up on the hill and talked to republicans and democrats. i must tell you that there is a lot of understanding that there was not a year or two ago. and the members get this. and i think they will do something important and useful this year on this subject. host: by the way on that mark zuckerberg testimony and other

social media ceos,f you want to go back and watch those hearings you c do it at c-span.org. just type in mark zuckerberg in the search bar in the top right corner and you will come up on that page and you can click on every time that he has testified and watch it in its entirety and decide for yourself. mike in florida. good morning. caller: good morning gentlemen. my comment is just a comment, i am not an expert in this. but, to me what i am seeing is that we know that a lot of children, that is how they communicate through social media. and i believe that there is an information war going on. and when i look at tiktok and there were 120 million people on that platform, it seems like

that platform was attacked. and that congress, and the people in power are trying to find a way to counterbalance that so that they can control information. and what you see and read and stuff like that. i agree with you, there needs to be some regulation. but i would like to see what are they going to regulate? are they going to go after the companies? or are they going to punish the people? and it does have to be regulated. i think the parents have to do a better job. and maybe at a certain age children should not be on social media. it should be just like when you drive a car or something. it should be regulated until you get of age and then you can actually go out there on social media and look at what you want. but it should be regulated for the kids. i agree with you for that.

guest: i agree with the gentleman. we have to have some reasonable regulation or we are really at sea. the mental problems, the suicides are just going to continue to skyrocket. this is not an effort to tell the platforms and how they can operate. but, it is an effort to get them to operate with safety, especially for children. that is all we are saying. and on tiktok, there is a bill passed that makes tiktok you know divest itself from its chinese ownership. i think the main reason that bill passed, and this is a valid concern, was that the chinese government were spying on us and

using our data for that things for us. -- bad things for us. it was a national security bill more than safeguarding kids. so, but it has passed and we will see what happens. my worry is that in just dealing with one platform you are not dealing with the totality of the problem. all of these platforms, takes top -- tiktok, instagram, facebook and what have you are guilty of the same problem. they are using algorithms to make more money. they are putting profit over people and that is what we have to guard against. that is why we are so much for the bills. parents still have a role and there is no question. i am a parent, i am a grandparent, i know that i have responsibility with these kids, to keep them safe.

schools have a responsibility. we are all responsible for the safety of children. all we are saying is that the platforms need to be part of that responsibility. host: i wonder if you have read jonathan hike's book "the anxious generation" who argues that parents today over protect their kids in the real world and under protect them online and argues it should be the opposite. we should allow more children freedom in the real world but definitely know what they are getting into online. guest: jonathan is a great source of information on this problem. he is part of the council. we talk to them all the time. he is dead right. and if people are more interested in this whole area, i encourage you to get his books, they are awesome.

he is a child psychologist in training and in background. and he is a valuable part of our counsel. -- council. we go to him all the time for advice. there is just a growing movement in our country that this is a problem that we have to address. i mean, these companies are really great companies, they are valuable companies in our economy. if you look at the stock market today, it is kind of determined by how they call the magnificent six or seven are doing. and they have business all over the world. they have users all over the world. they have verbalized -- revolutionized communication. but there has to be reasonable regulation for safety and for the public. and that is what we are trying to do.

and i am encouraged that we made progress, but we have to get some things done this year. host: i should note that he was on the afterwards program and viewers can watch that on booktv online again at c-span.org. about five minutes left this is mark in virginia, thank you for waiting. caller: hello, i am in total agreement about the problem and the oversight, but we have an anxious generation which is on social media and facing challenges. for example we have a situation where we need mental health services from experts and psychiatric's and the psychologists have been recommending that she needs more services but because kaiser does not have the services in-house and mental health care for

teenagers, they are refusing to provide a reference to send her to the treatments that she needs. and we have been fighting with the system for the last six months. there is no getting away from the problems that the kids are facing. but, the insurance companies need to be more oversight and following the rules. i know the biden administration has talked about mental services for health insurance companies to provide, but it is not being implemented. and we are facing serious challenges about it. guest: this comment is exactly right. we are seeing more mental problems among young people than any time in history. now, in fairness part of it was the pandemic and kids being isolated and alone for up to two

years and not being able to go to school and so on and so on. that was a fact of life. we got through that. college presidents tell us that something like 40 to 50% of the incoming class last fall had mental problems. and they have no capacity to deal with it. they do not have the clinicians or the psychiatrists or psychologists to deal with it. this thing is out of control. and so, doing something about social media is part of it. but this gentleman is exactly correct. parents also have to have an kids have to have access to professional mental medical help. and the insurance should cover it. back in the day, i think we

passed legislation. patrick kennedy is still a great friend of mine. he was a member of the house when i was there. and he has been a constant boys for -- constant voice for requiring the insurance companies to cover mental health problems and to provide help for mental problems. i do not know where that sits today. i cannot comment on this gentleman's thought about kaiser , which is a specific question about them. and we do not have enough mental professionals, psychiatric and psychological professionals. that is another problem we have. we do not have enough people to grapple with these problems. so, a lot of challenge, mental health is a huge part of the picture. social media is not the only

reason for it. but it is a significant cause. and we have to attack it and all the ways we have been talking about this morning. host: in the final minute, if folks are interested in getting involved in this effort or seeing more about what you are doing, where can they go or what should they be doing? guest: i am sure they can go on the issue one website. i am sure we have a rep -- a website for the council for responsible social media. we would be happy to have people log on and ask for information. we will get you information on what we are doing, what we are working on, how we are trying to do it. we have really focused not only on congress, but we are focusing on the states. there are a lot of efforts going on in the states. and we would be happy to help.

as i said, i was out in minnesota a couple weeks ago with zach, and we had a meeting with their mothers. the kids who have been deeply affected by this. there are just chilling stories. so if people have the desire to be involved in this, we want them to be involved and we will try to get them involved in any way we can. host: issueone.org. the former house majority leader and member of congress from missouri. we always appreciate your time. thank you. guest: thank you. host: that is going to do it for us this morning on the washington journal that we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, have a great friday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> coming up, a discussion on the biden administration's tax policies. from the hamilton project, watched live at 10:30 a.m. >> today, the affordable housing of maryland hol its 33rd annual housing summit. representatives are expected to join the acting housing director and talk about affordable housing. watch on c-span.org, on our free mobile