host: this is the washington journal for may 14. one of the questions facing former president trump's who

would he choose to be his running mate. he recently met with some of the possible contenders. mr. trump continues attending his hush money case. we want to hear from republicans in the audience about the person you would like to see as former president trump's running mate. republicans who live in the eastern and central time zones, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones, give us a call at (202) 748-8001. you can text (202) 748-8003 us at (202) 748-8003. on x it is @cspanwj that the business insider publication takes a look at some of those people that could be on a short list when it comes to the former

president's running mate for this november. that list starts with senator tim scott of south carolina. the list adding senator scott has been on mr. trump's shortlist from the beginning. he is a former presidential candidate himself. the 58-year-old has also shown a fundraising prowess that could be appreciated given mr. trump's at times cash-strapped campaign. second on the list is the governor of north dakota. saying his biggest moment was arguably the primary debate. despite the forgettable primary efforts he is receiving serious consideration. his momentum is surprising home state politicians.

is a white male from a state with three electoral votes that have not gone to a democrat since lbj, does not seem to bring a lot of electoral value to the ticket. third on the list of senator marco rubio of florida, saying mr. rubio would be the most obvious choice to carry the former president's legacy forward in 2028. the floridian was once claimed the future of the republican party. he did vote to certify the 2020 election results but found other ways to work with his former primary rival in office and has proved he will shift his views when he was one of the main architects of the bipartisan 2013 immigration reformation that would have it -- offered undocumented immigrants pathways to citizenship. if you have your own choice for the person you would like to see run with former president donald trump this november you can let us know on the phone lines. if you live in the eastern and

central time zones it is (202) 748-8000. if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones it is (202) 748-8001. if you want to tax us -- if you want to text us, that is (202) 748-8003. two other people of note. representative elise stefanik of new york. she has clearly state or ground is a trump ally. she was the first member of the house to of endorsed trump for his 2024 run and endeared himself -- endeared herself for her defense of the president during the impeachment trial. she garnered national attention -- she was more liberal than liz cheney but horizon the gop has cemented her as a trump aligned republican. the last, j.d. vance of ohio,

saying the senator used his perch to push the gop more in trump's direction. he serves in a chamber that is more likely to defy the former president. the 39-year-old has been repeatedly mentioned as a potential running mate. he has ties to the more conservative silicon valley leaders who can help mr. trump's fundraising. that is the top five on the list. you may find someone you agree with when it comes to a running mate. you may find another person altogether. (202) 748-8000 for those republicans in the eastern and central time zone. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific time zones. j.d. vance was in new york monday with mr. trump as he was attending his hush money case outside of that. senator vance made several comments to the press. >> michael cohen is the

prosecution's star witness. this guy is a convicted felon who admitted in his testimony that he secretly recorded his former employer, that he only did it once, and this was supposed to help donald trump. does any sensible person believe anything michael cohen says? i don't think they should. i think his testimony will hurt any reasonable juror and hopefully we have a few of those . i want to say two other things. the things the president is prevented from saying is that every single person involved in this prosecution is practically a democratic political operative. the judge, his daughter is making millions of dollars running against donald trump, raising money for donald trump's political opponent. the number three person in bidens department of justice left to become a local prosecutor to go after donald trump. then there is alvin bragg, a

soros funded prosecutor who promised to go after donald trump. whether you love donald trump or you are democrat and do not care about politics, what is going on inside the courtroom is a threat to american democracy. we cannot have a country where you get to prosecute your political opponents instead of persuading voters. joe biden's entire strategy is to try to distract from inflation at home and war overseas with this sham trial. i want to live in a reasonable country where we try to persuade voters in our politics do not try to throw our political opponents in jail. host: that was senator j.d. vance, one of those bandied about as a former -- as a running mate for trump. michael in florida, the former president's home state, has this thought. saying "i would like to see a well-qualified woman.

sarah huckabee sanders. she is smart and has good name recognition and is prepared." you are welcome to give your thoughts. bradley in texas. your first up on this question of a running mate for the former president. go ahead. caller: caller: good morning. i would like to see donald trump pick ron desantis from florida. host: why is that? caller: what i've seen from ron desantis is leadership. his moral compass. host: you think that because you have two floridians that would be a problem and you think that because both the president and ron desantis have differences with each other during the campaign that might be an issue? caller: i think they have their issues ironed out. host: bradley in texas.

this is a viewer off of our x feed saying they need someone boring. that is a quote by the way. "who would i personally like to see as vp? vivek ramaswamy." others under possible consideration, elise stefanik of new york. former democrat tulsa gabbert on that list as well. doug burgum in new jersey. giving introductory remarks before former president trump's rally. here is some of that from over the weekend. >> we know how all of you will vote this november. to win this election so big it cannot be rate you have to bring your friends, your independents, the people who may not be here,

and you can help them make that choice. it is very simple. donald trump mean strength. joe biden means weakness. donald trump means law and order. joe biden means lawfare. joe biden's policies kill jobs. if you like regulation, crime, political trials, and open borders. [indiscernible] if you want to make america safe again, make america strong again, you know what to do. let's get this country turned around fast. let's send president trump back to the white house and make america great again. host: that was governor burgum

in new jersey. one of those people discussed as a possible vice presidential running mate for the former president. perhaps he rises to that list. you can add yours to the mix. one of the people not under consideration, at least of the former president himself, was nikki haley, who you saw during the primary process. adding in a post a couple days ago that nikki haley is not under consideration for the vp slot, "i wish her well" added from former president trump. the wall street journal editorial board took a look at nikki haley as a potential running mate and how to them she should stay in the mix. adding in a recent editorial on may 12 "ms. haley ought to be in the mix given her strong primary performance. she outlasted everyone but mr.

trump and did well in debates. she has foreign policy experience and was a two term governor of south carolina. she provides a notable contrast to vice president kamala harris. conventional wisdom is that mr. trump cannot expect someone -- cannot accept someone with strong views of her own and that would rule out ms. haley. choosing a strong woman would be surprising enough that it might cause skeptical swing voters to take another look at the former president. maga diehards would howl, but they would not stay home or vote for mr. biden." that is the editor of the wall street journal. republicans only to start off the program. if you want to give your thoughts on the potential pick for former president trump, maybe something you have hurt or you want to add your own opinion. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones and (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and

pacific time zones. people posting on facebook this morning. one of those was former president trump's secretary of state mike pompeo, one of those people possible consideration. a to the mix florida republican byron donalds. we heard governor desantis name mentioned already. then former republican from wyoming liz cheney, who was the vice chair for the january 6 committee as a potential pick for former president trump. let's go to ronald in long island. as far as the potential pick for the former president. hello? caller: hello will stop my pick would be tulsi gabbard. i think she is the smartest, the most good-looking, and she wrote

a tremendously powerful book about why she left the democratic party and how the democratic party is nothing like what used to be. i think president trump would be greatly helped if he had a woman candidate for vice president. she would be at the top of my list. also regarding senator vance, senator rubio, i think the republicans very much need to keep the people they have in the senate. that would be a good reason not to choose them for vice president. thank you. host: you mentioned she had been a democrat before. do you think she would align with former president trump's views should she become

president of the united states? caller: i do indeed think she would align herself very well. host: why is that? caller: is very smart and her views are antiwar -- as someone who served in the military she is antiwar. i think, particularly in the world we live in now, that would be a big bonus because we did have peace under trump, for which he is given no credit. i think she would help continue that. also i think she values people based on merit, not based on anything like race, which would be unconstitutional and wrong. host: ronald in long island.

let's hear from robert in oregon about this idea of who the former president might pick as a running mate. you are next up. hello. caller: good morning. i have to agree with the previous caller. i think it was the previous caller. i think tulsi gabbard be a tremendous selection my perspective on all she would bring. and have an appeal to others other than people who will straight on be voting for donald trump. host: you said all that she would bring. what you think she brings to the ticket? caller: part of it is her

narrative that she offered in her departure from the democratic party and the reasons , and that she displayed courage when she was a democratic candidate the last time around. it is solid. it is not trying to play the game. she is compelling the way she has military service and she has a clear perspective on international as well as domestic affairs. i think i am probably a little bit more informed than many because i tend to watch too much

c-span as well as other news of the day to educate -- educated as a lawyer over 70 years old. i have always been an oregon type republican. people like mark hatfield. we used to be very independent minded and i would like to style myself that way. i think she would be a terrific addition to trump. i hope he selects her or mike pompeo as a second choice. host: that is robert in oregon. this is angela in virginia. hello. caller: good morning. my choice would be byron donalds of florida. we have a lot of young black men

that are looking to trump and i note the media -- if he picks anybody white they will spend the rest of the time talking about white supremacy, kkk, and they will not be able to say that if he has byron donalds. byron donalds could broaden the tent and he could expand his base and that is what we need. there needs to be a strategic vote based on the fact that his base is not going anywhere. we need to expand the base and brought in the tent and byron donalds has the ability to do that as far as black men are concerned because they are sick of the democratic party and byron donalds would be the perfect choice. tulsi gabbard used to be a democrat. i don't want anything to do with anyone who used to be a

democrat. she will still have one of her democrat positions. i don't want anything to do with that post up byron donalds will expand the tent. host: how do you think senator tim scott fits into that mix? caller: he is not looked at the way byron donalds is. he has looked at as a step and fetch it. i do not think that personally. i have five brothers, i have a lot of black cousins, he is not the one. that would be a total mistake. trump space would still be there with tim scott, but to broaden that base to include young black men were sick of the democratic party, tim scott would turn them off. we do not need tim scott. i like tim scott, but he cannot deliver the way byron donalds would deliver and expand his base and brought in his candidacy. host: angela in virginia.

republicans calling in on this idea of presidential running mates for the former president donald trump. several have been added to the mix. you heard her talking about representative donalds of florida. you can add others to the mix. let's hear from david in baltimore. caller: good morning, america. i would choose tulsi gabbard but the previous caller has be sold on iran donald's. she put out strong points. -- on byron donalds. she put out strong points. tulsi gabbard is an independent thinker and we have seen both sides of the aisle. trump used to be a democrat. there is a blurb between democrats and republicans. there is something called a

unity party and i think -- something called a uniparty and i think tulsi is outside that. she has military background and a government background. if you listen to her on these longform conversations, which are some of the best ways in which to show cup -- in which to soak up information about people, whether podcast a or podcast b. if you look at hulsey gabbard -- if you look at tulsi gabbard, he is very competent. the strong competent female a lot of individuals want that are independent thinkers outside of the hillary clinton and kamala harris. byron donalds is an interesting pick over tim scott and vivek ramaswamy and marco rubio. host: david in maryland giving his thoughts.

tulsi gabbard is on the list from business insider, falling on number eight on the list, saying she has reinvented herself since briefly running for the 2020 democrat nomination. he made a major show of leaving her party, saying mr. trump's interest is serious enough that she reportedly brushed off rfk juniors entreaties to be his vice presidential nominee. byron donalds comes in at number six on the list, saying that donald's has risen rapidly in the eyes of many of his colleagues. his close relationship with the house conservatives that forced kevin mccarthy's ouster and frustrated speaker mike johnson. he has not participated in either effort to challenge the men directly. those are the people. this idea when it comes to republicans, who you might want to see alongside former

president trump as he runs for the white house. (202) 748-8000 if you want to get in on the conversation. eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you want to give your thoughts in the mountain pacific time zones. in jim garrity's column, when it comes to the veepstakes, saying "the republican veepstakes rings two elements lacking in 2024, drama. we know joe biden and vice president harris. mr. trump is four years what you already had. when mr. trump makes his selection most of these figures

will return to obscurity but someone will be narrated -- be elevated to the national spotlight alongside a man who turned 78 on june 18 and his running mate might be a clogged artery away from the presidency." this column adding that " unlike in most presidential elections, the choice of running mate has little impact on the final result. this year could be an acceptable. if mr. trump chooses someone who makes a more plausible president than harris, wavering voters could break his way." that is a column in the washington post. this is mark in florida. you are next up. caller: i think the wise move would be to select mike pompeo. this was a man that is very intelligent.

he graduated first in the united states military academy at west point, first in his class. from there had a military career. he was also the director of the cia. he has intelligence community experience. he has proven he can work with donald trump. he was chosen by trump as the secretary of state. he was able to keep kim jong-il in check. his rockets stopped which had been flooding over japan and kept -- in check.

we know what happened after they left office with the balloons. putin was kept in check and after they left office we know what happened in ukraine. it has been proven he can work with trump. the historic abraham accords was developed during their administration under the work of mike pompeo bringing saudi arabia and jordan into recognizing israel as a bona fide state. host: foreign policy is what you're looking at on a lot of fronts when you want to see is a future point -- as a future choice? caller: aside from our disastrous southern border and the economy and the riots in the

streets, i call them riots because that is what they are on college campuses and elsewhere, foreign policy would be just as important. host: mart in florida giving his thoughts. this is bill from connecticut texting us, saint when it comes to -- he would like to see president trump name one of his sons as vice president to drive the democrats crazier than they are now. one more call from robert. also a floridian calling us. caller: how are you doing? i want your program a lot and brian donald is easily the best pick. for backup blackburn, and the

governor of north dakota. he is a good one. i studied his stuff. these are the people, they do not study like i do. byron donalds is solid and he will bring the black vote. the educated black people will vote for blackburn because you can see he is dynamite, he is perfect. that is all i have to say. host: robert in florida as far as his choices for fellow floridians who serves in congress, representative byron donalds as a choice for vice president or a potential vice president. we will turn the corner in the final half hour of this first hour of the program and invite you to participate in open forum. if you wish to comment on the biden presidential stakes in -- and you are republican you can put your thought into the mix.

other news in the world of politics. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. it is open forum. pick the line that best represents you. if you called in the last 30 days we would ask you to hold off doing so today. if you call and get in and get ready to go on the air, if you would mute or lower your television that would help cut the interference down. as you call in, one of the things that happened yesterday as well when it comes to the presidential race was robert f kennedy, junior holding a rally in austin, texas yesterday. he recently chose as his running mate nicole shanahan. he talked a little bit about why he made that choice for her as his vice presidential running

mate. >> every time i see her speak i follow a little bit more in love with her. you don't see vice presidential candidates. the presidential candidates we have today sound like they are doing a satire of veep. the stuff they are talking about is cliches and some of occasions and bumper sticker slogans and that is not what you hear from nicole. you hear a lecture about soils. [applause] no political scientist in the world that would tell you you have to give a lecture on soils, they will love it. nobody would tell her to do that, nobody would advise her and yet she does it and we all love her because we see the

authenticity, we see the integrity, we see the compassion from other people the creatures with whom we share this planet. you do not hear that from our political leaders. you do not hear that we are all part of a giant family and the microbes are part of it. the soil is part of it. the plans are part of it. that is what we need if we will start healing this country. host: robert f. kennedy, jr. and if you want to see more of that forum you are welcome to go to our website at c-span.org and you can also see it on the pp. -- you can also see it on the app. you can make comments on candidates or any other matter in the world. u.s. day-to-day -- usa today highlights that the presidential primary season marches on as president biden and former president trump continue to increase their delegate total.

three states, west virginia, maryland, nebraska vote in the presidential primary on tuesday, may 14. both biden and trump have secured the delegates they need to become their party's nominee. it also highlights when it comes to the various states involved, project lead when it comes to the maryland primary election, residents will vote for their party's presidential nominee, for two senate come in eight house seats. mr. trump and mr. biden will headline their party's ballots but will be accompanied by candidates like nikki haley and dean phillips and author marion williamson on the democratic ballots. there is more on the states holding ballots. republican line in indiana on this open forum. this is michael. hello. caller: i think it is about time

the country gives a chance to the private citizen to have a say in things. host: what you mean by that? caller: i think you should pick a private citizen to run this country. host: what you think the appeal would be if he decided to go that route? caller: i think it would have the people's best interest in mind. the planet. i think it would finally do some good for this country. host: michael in indiana. you can keep adding to this idea if you want when it comes to vice president nominees. tim in baltimore, democrats line, go ahead. caller: in reference to the vice president, a lot of people are calling in in reference to what they think should be the vice president. trump need someone to actually do what he says. not independent thinker. tulsi gabbard will be out.

someone who can suck up to him the most will be his pick. i think it might be tim scott. in reference to the maryland elections come on the republican side, the former governor is running and he is going against a couple democrats. also brooks will win the democratic seat. it will be tough in november. host: you're talking about larry hogan? what you think of his chances? caller: i don't know. a lot of democrats voted for him as governor. meet, personally, i like him as governor, but i do not know about senator. it is interesting he is running for senator knowing he was going against trump. they'll be interesting. host: you said you liked him as a governor but not as a senator. would you mind elaborating?

caller: he had more control as a governor. as a senator you either vote for your party or you do not and he did not have that much control, especially with the senate now. i think you did a great job running the state and i would've voted for him as president if he ran, but i know the trump machine is going on right now. host: kim in baltimore -- tim in baltimore talking about larry hogan. a name in the mix is worthless that it is concerned. albuquerque is next. independent line. this is jorge. caller: thank you for c-span. i saw that in the future it will be social security and ai and taxes. i would like to speak about digital currency. turning data history into blackmailing bitcoins.

the algorithms were trained on the new cycle and learning it. the third is now that the new cycle is written not by humans but ai. we can id a eyes with silly names and authors with no history. i solution is to enact new employment laws and tax laws. ai must be regulated and compensated equivalent to a man or woman with the same wages. ai does not need money so i would tax them 100% straight into social security. host: jorge is there. if you're interested in ai and the impact it might have on politics, at 9:15 you can join us. neil chilson who was the chief technologist for the federal trade commission here to talk about the impact ai could pose when it comes to this year's election.

let's hear from patrick in nebraska. caller: i just want to touch on a couple of things. i think there is something called the affordable connectivity program that is coming up in the senate. i am hoping maybe c-span might cover that a little bit. senator tim kaine is coming out in favor of it and pushing it. another thing is i think there's something happening with medicare advantage programs with the authorization mess they are in right now and the third thing i would like to touch on is there is a documentary running around washington called "finding the money." you might have the director of that documentary on and talk to them about it. there are important issues, especially the last one about how you budget for the united states government. i wonder if you could put those in the hopper and cover some of those issues.

host: thanks for the suggestion. the first, i'm interested, the affordable connectivity program, why does that top your list? caller: is actually on the senate, it has been read into the senate so there is a certain time urgency right there. this medicare advantage preauthorization thing, that is on a yearly basis. every year people decide whether they will switch plans. there is time with that one. and of course the budgeting thing is later. host: that is patrick. the new republic picking up on a piece on the website sing a program intended to help low income americans connect to the internet is likely to disappear at the end of this month. it supporters have limited options to keep it afloat. although the affordable connectivity program used by 23 million households to obtain up

-- to obtain broadband access attracts broad support it is unclear if -- may the final month of funding. the bill provided subsidies for low income families. without additional funding the acp stopped accepting new enrollment in february it was also the final month of funding for the program and the fcc was only able to offer partial reimbursement for internet providers in the month of may. that discount for nontribal households dropped to $14 a month. in memphis, tennessee, dennis is up next. democrats line. caller: good morning. i would like to comment on what one of the previous call said that trump should pick a black person on his running mate that

he would collect the black vote. it would just be the total opposite of trump does something like that. you have to realize he represents a lot of hate groups and they would not appreciate him selecting a black guy as his running mate. if you really wants to lose he would not go that way. thank you. host: that is dennis in tennessee. let's hear from robin in alabama. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think devin nunes from california would be an excellent picked for vice president. i also like tulsi gabbard but i can see a problem picking her. i wonder what everyone that would vote for trump thinks trump would lower prices or would they just stop the bleeding of inflation?

i am curious to find out what people think about that. i think people are under the impression that trump will drop brat -- will drop gas back down to the prices they were when he was president which would be great. i do not see anything dropping. to stop it from going up higher, that is my question. i still think devin nunes would be an excellent pick. he seems to have the charisma of a presidential figure. that is what i root for is somebody that people would look up to. you know what i'm saying? that is what i've got to say. host: thank you. caller: have a nice day. host: tj in california. independent line. caller: it would be great if trump could align himself with a private citizen more in line with who he is.

i would think david duke would be a great running mate for donald trump because they are both extremely racist and they hate people that are non-caucasian. i think david duke and trump would be perfect for our racist communities. host: jerry in nebraska. republican line. caller: i would like to talk about social security. you get democrats all the time blaming republicans for social security. democrats control the house of representatives from the time social security was started until 1992 or 1994. they had control of the house. they are the ones that spent all of that social security number on their pet projects and yet they are blaming republicans

that have no control over the spending for those years. i get tired of listening to them preaching about republicans wanting to destroy social security. they destroyed it from the start. it was money for pet projects over all of those years. even gore admitted it when he said he wanted to start a social security lockbox. after republicans took control of the house he wanted to put social security in a lockbox. before that the democrat spent it all. there would be plenty of money for social security if they had not robbed it. host: that is jerry in nebraska. if you're interested in the topic of social security stay with us. two guests joining us to talk about data from the social security administration. suggestions from all fronts on what to do to maintain the viability of the program. that segment will come up in

about 15 minutes. marilyn is next on the open forum. -- maryland is next on the open forum. this is matt on the independent line. caller: i think who will be trump's running mate is whoever will debase themselves the most. whether it is tim scott. i think kristi noem is now out after shooting a dog, probably as performative cruelty for trump and his supporters. the big question is whether when she falsely stated into a book that she met with kim jong-un, she has never directly denied it. maybe she did and we do not know about it. this adds to her mystique to trump who has retained national security secrets about our nuclear capability and who has not returned everything, best as we know.

whoever debases themselves the most and whoever can see the trump wanted his last vice president hanged by his supporters, that speaks to the level of desperation and groveling. host: that is matt in maryland. when it comes to the topic of book revision there is a story on axios that centers around the former white house press secretary jen psaki who claims in her new book that president biden never looked at his watch during the ceremony for u.s. soldiers killed in afghanistan contradicting -- donald trump and his allies have used images to show mr. biden checking his watch during the ceremony and tried to undermine the president's brand is an empathetic leader. jen psaki's book is the latest episode of former biden officials misrepresenting controversial episodes from the

afghanistan withdraw. jen psaki adds that the president looked at his watch overly after the ceremony had ended. jen psaki now describes herself as a journalist and writes that the critics are engaged in misinformation, now sing this account is oddly fact checked for the time. there is more if you want to read it for yourself. check it out on the axios website. let's hear from rita in pennsylvania. caller: i had a comment about the antiabortion bill. how many of these republicans, if they have daughters and granddaughters might be pregnant and they might have to decide whether they want to risk their lives to have a baby, how many of republicans want to charge these people that will let you die because it is the law and you cannot have an abortion. it is ridiculous how these republicans are trying to take away everything.

they do not want you to have abortions, they do not want you to have the right to vote. i'm sure they would do the same thing if they had the chance. host: that is rita in pennsylvania. we will hear next from north carolina. independent line. caller: i would like to make a comment on the vice presidential pick. all of the people you named are like -- i like all of them. i like sarah sanders. the one person he would pick, i would not vote for trump. if he picks kristi noem of south dakota i will not vote for trump. i will skip voting for president if that is the case. host: why is that? caller: she is mean and she is a

nasty person. we don't need a nasty person as vice president. host: is this over the dog shooting story or are there other instances? caller: it is mostly over the dog story. also she appears to be not very honest. she says she speaks to all of these foreign leaders but she does not want us to tell anyone what she talked about. don't the people in south dakota want to know what she talks about to all these foreign leaders? is it a secret when she talks to foreign leaders? why is that. she is just a mean, nasty person and i will not vote for trump if he picks her. host: that is mary in north carolina. you have the chance to talk about the vice presidential pick if you want and maybe there are

other topics when it comes to open forum. (202) 748-8000 free democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans and independents. -- for independents, (202) 748-8002 vice president kamala harris saying she dropped an f bomb as she gave advice monday, prompting applause from her audience. it went on to quote what she said. an actor and comedian was moderating the conference and said we have to make t-shirts. the ex would've came after asking her to reflect on the first south asian vice president. here's a portion of that

comment. be warned there is an expletive within this clip. here it is. >> don't ever carry is a personal burden your capacity to do whatever you dream and aspire to do based on other peoples limited ability to see who can do what. this is part of what is involved. we have to know that sometimes people will open the door for you and leave it open, sometimes they won't. then you need to kick that fucking door down. [applause] excuse my language. [laughter] host: there is more there. you can see that on the website or the app if you want to check that out from yesterday. let's hear from bill in texas.

caller: kamala harris can always get louis farrakhan for her vice president. host: that is bill in texas giving us his thoughts. you can call on the line. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's hear from an independent. caller: i want to ask c-span comp how come you do not broadcast trump rallies over the national radio. i did not hear them do it saturday. host: that is a good question. i do not know the direct answer. usually networks are simulcast. i do not have answered directly for you. caller: because i know c-span is asking for people to donate to their station and i like c-span,

but if you will tell so many will broadcast something and you do not. i don't know if it is because people working there are towards trump, but that is up to the american people to pick who they want to pick for our president. it is not up to nobody else. give the people what they want. to meet you have a better product when you do that. as for the trump vice president i wish he would pick robert f. kennedy, jr. because i am wishing for a split ticket. the republicans in the democratic party, neither one respects their voters. when you talk about social security, intent of taking all that money and putting it to the industrial war machine, what you take all that money and give it to social security. you keep talking about how -- and time when there is a war they always come up with money. something is wrong with this picture. people do not believe any party -- you keep talking about how you will pay for it.

whenever a war comes out they can pay for it. if they can do that they can put the money back in social security. people busted their asses all their lives and work for social security. to call it entitlement program is disrespect to the workers of this country. host: stay with us for the segment taking a look at social security. also when you take a look at where you can hear various things on c-span we always attempt to spell out what platforms you can hear events on , whether it be television or radio, the app, the website as well. for certain reasons we choose those platforms. you can find information on the website. on the phone or on your computer. it lists what events we will play. we have the platforms you can see it on. all of that wraps up at the website at c-span.org. if you're to check out the website yourself and what we are airing during the day.

democrats line. this is glenn. hello. caller: we have to do something. all of these republicans want to take everything away. everything. we have to get in there and go to the red states and take all of the blacktop out that biden put down. they have the best roads we have ever had for quite a while. now they're are working on the bridges and getting them done. biden keeps getting stuff done. host: glenn in illinois giving us his thoughts. let's hear from john in massachusetts. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to point out a few

hypocrisies i do not understand. hilarie destroyed her laptop and now it is fine. that was all good. then president trump had those documents and they were mad. then biden had them and that is supposed to be different? in 2020 blm righted. billions and damage. that was mostly peaceful but genuine six was the worst day ever? now they're are out again doing this antisemitic thing. all of criticism against george soros for destroying rda's antisemitism, but any criticism of israel or netanyahu -- that is because they are so smart because they went to college and they know so much so they are figuring out all of the different things. if we do not want to support you prayed we are a putin but if they do not want to support israel they are hamas puppets?

can i see most sides of the story? report just came out about ashley biden and the snopes report took that to verify. there it goes. like i said, it has gone to unverified. it is now verified that ashley biden has reported that the people who stole it or putting her diary out online. she showered with people as a teenager. host: you mentioned the stories are out there. catherine in vermont. democrats line. caller: i would like to give a response to the person who made the comment about vice president kamala harris and selecting louis farrakhan as her vice president if she were to be president. i guess trump, if he is chosen would select his cellmate. thank you and have a good one.

host: one of the hearings you can see as it debuts over the last couple of weeks was the recent destruction of the key bridge in the d.c. metro area, in baltimore, the baltimore francis scott key bridge. there is a lot of debate as far as federal assistance to rebuild the bridge and other things to consider. on that issue today come at 10:00 this morning, if you want to see it, that will be at c-span3, our app on c-span now, and also c-span.org. dorothy is in new jersey. democrats line. last call on this open forum. go ahead. caller: i have a question about the fiscal stability act that joe manchin admit romney were trying to form. that is to reduce the debt.

host: what did you want to say about it? caller: i wanted to know why -- host: go ahead. caller: the elephant in the room is the national debt. there is a republican congressman who actually has lots of charts to talk about the debt. the number one expense is social security. number two is medicare. number three is the debt. he went on about two weeks ago. the national debt is number two. no longer number three, it is number two. i want to make sure that someone forms a committee in the house, democrat, republican and

proposes ways to reduce the debt. host: dorothy in new jersey finishing off this round of open forum. thanks for participating. she mentioned social security. social security is the topic of our next segment. new information from the social security administration. discussions on what to do for the future of the program. two guest. we will hear from nancy altman for that discussion. later on, how could the use of artificial intelligence effect this year's presidential election? we take up that topic with neil chilson. those topics coming up on "washington >> they want to come here and collect our welfare instead. no asylum cases. >> most people come here to make

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authors discussing biography, cultural events and culture. listen to c-span's podcast feed today. you can find it on the free c-span now mobile video app or wherever you get your podcasts, and on our website. >> washington journal continues. host: a discussion on the future of social security. president of the group joining us in d.c.. the budget and entitlement policy director. thank you for giving us your time today. >> -- guest: thank you for having me. host: go ahead and go first.

guest: i work for the cato industry -- institute, which is a libertarian leaning tank in washington dc. we advise on public policy. we have a long history with social security, having been known in the early 2000's for our plan to support private accounts. a new model at this time. you will be seeing real policy reforms coming out in the next few months. guest: social security works is the name of our organization. i realized in 2010 that there was a lot of misinformation about it. supposed to provide a sense of security.

i formed this organization to educate. host: they put out new information about the current state of the programs. currently able to pay 100% of benefits. the program income will be sufficient to pay 79% of scheduled benefits. combine that with the disability insurance trust fund. that until 2035. i went to ask, what do these figures median? do you want to start? guest: absolutely. social security is a pension plan.

there are about 40 actuaries. they are looking very carefully at the income and outcome. it should give people a sense of confidence. sometimes he will have unanticipated surplus and shortfalls. what this means is that it has been carefully monitored. there is no question that congress will act. guest: there is some slight improvement thanks to greater labor productivity. we are living in exciting times with the advancement of ai, especially lower educated

workers in their jobs. we should see great things there. i look forward to seeing how that plays out to the degree that they have been deteriorated in large part due to the aging of american society, in combination with the decline in fertility. last year we had the lowest fertility rate in the u.s., meaning americans are having fewer babies than ever before. all of these factor into social security because it is a pay-as-you-go program. current workers working today, including myself and nancy are paying for the benefit of retirees. at the time when the retirees were working, they were paying for the benefit of the retirees of that time. it is a government redistribution program that takes today's taxes to pay

today's benefits. the trust fund makes up a small portion, but it is invested in treasury securities. it draws on current taxpayers to make good on bonds. host: before her statement, congress has to do something. this has been the messaging is that something has to be done. d think they are interested in doing something at this point? guest: 100%. they actually expand benefits. social security works extremely well. it is portable, universal, the one shortcoming is that the benefits are too low.

there are a number of puzzles introduced. president biden has taken the same position towards benefits to require those in excess to contribute their fair share. that will allow benefits to be increased and paid on time for the foreseeable future. they have not produced any legislation but it is quite clear that they do not want to raise revenue. the only other option is to cut. they want to expand benefits.

republicans want to cut benefits and give tax breaks to the billionaires and millionaires. host: d think they are trying to compensate for what they are trying to do? guest: i have to disagree that the benefits are too low. it depends on who you are looking at. the name of the program was officially called the survivors insurance program. the question should be, what are we ensuring against? the most legitimate use is to ensure against poverty in old age. there are some people who fall below the poverty level and i think that is an area we can come together and increase benefits potentially for lower

income earners. social security is exceptionally generous when it comes to high income earners. if you have too high -- two high earning individuals, they can collect this year $117,000 a year from social security. i think that is excessive. in terms of options, lifting the payroll tax cap, basically tying the tax to all earnings without a limit. right now the limit is 168,500, after which everyone pays social security taxes. they still pay income taxes but not payroll taxes. even without increasing benefits further, just trying to pay current benefits would only

solve the shortfall by half. it is not a quick fix for the program. we need to talk about broader changes. looking at who will receive benefits and how generous they are is a change that should be on the table. guest: let social security is wage insurance? in the event of retirement or death? the event of disability? you are not able to support yourself. what experts say is maintain your standard of living, about 70% to 80% of your wage. a higher percentage because they

have no say. social security, for someone who is high income, it only replaces 20%, much too low. there is a retirement income crisis. we answered and the solution is to expand social security. these bills have been introduced by the senators. over $400,000.

that actually raises more money and ensures the benefits can be paid to 75 years and beyond. they have a bill over 250 thousand dollars. it increases benefits $200 a month. the social security would be restored. there is a third bill. over 180 cosponsors in the house . they have an enormous number across-the-board increases.

and that allows benefits to be paid on time. the solutions are there. it is just about taking the. host: we are asking about the future of social security. if you are under the age of 40 you can call (202) 748-8000. if you are calling between the ages of 40 and 65, you can call (202) 748-8001. if you are over 65, you can call (202) 748-8002. if you receive social security benefits and want to highlight that, please do, and our conversation. both of you, this idea -- any a discussion takes place, the person you have to ask, is this going to affect me right now?

how do you satisfy those concerns despite any conversation that takes race, going into the future when it comes to social security? guest: social security does not exist in a vacuum. we have a robust, private saving system in the u.s. that is working fabulously. some of the highest private savings rates for retirement among all nations. other industrialized countries like european countries, canada, etc. our system with features like auto enrollment, direct deposit is a model for the world and we should not discount that income, especially when we are talking about younger, lower network working americans with potentially higher taxes in order to find benefits for many

americans simply do not need them. if you are a millionaire, you have paid taxes into social security or entire life like everyone else, but it is still a government program and not private in the way that your 401(k) is. we need to ask, who should receive benefits? what is the right level of if it for those individuals who need benefits the most? how can we encourage and support were saving by workers that they can have the productivity increases that allows them to thrive today and dave for the future? how do you prevent changes to current benefits? it means that congress should not wait until 2023 to take action. they should take action today.

i have been encouraged by the efforts of jodey arrington and scott peters. he put together a commission for congress to look at a holistic picture and try to stabilize the diet because social security is one aspect of our problem. it contributes roughly one third to our unfunded allegations. the big elephant in the room as medicare. how are we going to make sure that there is enough revenue available to protect seniors when they are sick? we should not look at these things in a vacuum. we need to take a look at the full picture. guest: social security, there is an important difference. social security does not add a penny.

it is financed. it does not cover every penny of cost. benefits are cut across. it is very important. just as they are segregating from the general fund, that is how social security is and should be treated. it is important to understand that what we need for events that are unlikely to happen but they do is insurance, not savings. life insurance and disability insurance. most of us will reach retirement age, but you do not know at age 20 whether you will go to 110 or

57. you know those kind of issues, whether that will be periods of unemployment, all kinds of uncertainties. they do not know for individuals. that is why what you need for a secure retirement is a pension plan. it has the best features of private sectors. that is why social security is a solution. host: let's hear from mark in pennsylvania. go ahead. you are on with our desk. caller: there is so much misinformation. i have a chart that shows how much we are spending on social security and medicare.

i do not know in what universe this is being paid for. 500 billion dollars in the hole over here. just pavers medicare and social security. they want to put more spending on top of that. this is not working. it was not a retirement plan. no one has we adjusted for the longevity of the american people. most people died around 65, so they were not paid for 20, 30 year retirement. please explain how much we have in the social security trust fund. >> absolutely. i'm getting my numbers from the social security administration, the office of the actuary.

a report that just came out that shows social security currently has an a chelated reserve and surplus of trillions of dollars. it brought trillions of dollars in revenue last year alone. the numbers are quite clear. social security is prohibited from paying any benefits unless it has the revenue to cover every penny. in fact, it has $2.7 trillion in accumulated surplus. if you go online, the actuary

website, the office of the actuality and click on the publications and look at the report. the numbers are all there and you can see every penny, including the trillions of dollars of treasury bonds that money is invested in. maturity dates, interest rates and so forth. guest: i would add that the financing overall -- it is important to keep in mind that we are hurtling towards a fiscal crises. two of the three major credit agencies have taken the step of

downgrading the u.s. debt, and the third credit agency has turned our outlook to negative. investors are paying attention and we are paying much higher interest rates now than we were before. how does social security pick -- play into that? it is assigned to the social security trust fund and is part of our $34 trillion gross national debt, not as big as the entire economy of the u.s. while social security still has trust fund reserves, in terms of cash flow -- you have to keep in mind that it is a pay-as-you-go program. they were not invested in real assets. they were invested in treasury bonds. where does the treasury get its money from? from taxpayers.

it does not alleviate the burden on current workers, especially when the proportion of workers responsible for paying is shrinking rapidly. i think that is where we need to keep in mind on the economic implications, drawing on our current workers, a dwindling group compared to the number of retirees, which are growing and expanding from 15% to 20% of the u.s. population. how do we make this math work without having a severe fiscal crises, where the security beneficiaries are saying, in 2033, it could be much smaller in magnitude than what might happen to many more americans, because social security has a role to play their because it is underfunded. another report that i commend

leaders to check out is the financial report of the u.s. government. it makes 75 year projections. the gap between what the government will collect in taxes and what it has promised to pay in benefits, 100% can be attributed to medicare and social security. one third social security and two thirds medicare. no matter how you look at the issue, we are on a unsustainable fiscal trajectory. we need to avoid a future fiscal crises. host: let me get this call and then we will go right back to you. alexander in baltimore. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call this morning. there was a difference in the outlook of social security that stood out to me in this

conversation. one speaker mentioned that social security is meant to be wage insurance and another mentioned social security is intended to be protection against falling into poverty in old age. i have the privilege of working with retirees for a living. i know that social security is on track. it is not that far off. i understand that there are challenges to dealing with both. the bureaucracy of the federal government and its inability to keep a clean balance sheet come in my opinion is the biggest thing preventing it from insuring mages. likewise on the other side of that, lack of information is probably the biggest thing keeping them back from the robust, private retirement plans

that we have going on. it is nice to hear you speak about some of the obstacles in the way of what you think will make it better and come to some sort of consensus on that. guest: let me talk about a number of things. the u.s. is the largest and wealthiest company in the world. it does not always feel that way because we also have unprecedented wealth and equality. when social security -- when congress last acted in major legislation, the actuaries showed that they were in complete balance which would

have taken us to 2057. what happened? the actuary said what they did not anticipate was the income and wealth inequality of the 1990's. it took until the last decade. $1.4 trillion has stayed in the pockets of wealthy americans being contributed as they should have been. the question of whether we expand or cut it. it works extremely well defined benefits and contribution prices with none of the disadvantages.

the american people have polarized so many hot button issues. they are united in their support for social security. this is a bipartisan position. many do not want to see it cut. it is more important than ever. what is standing in the way as much of the media reports that congress is doing nothing when actually, there are a number that have been analyzed by the administration that are very underreported. they let the american people see where the parties stand.

guest: i like to answer the caller's question as well. how do we make sure that more americans, especially the lower income americans can also take advantage of the robust saving system that this country offers? i think education can be part of it, but one of the primary reasons that lower ending americans do not participate is because it has such strict rules over what circumstances you can take the money out early. i think that if you are worried you might need the money, not when you are 65 and older, but over the next five to 10 years, you will not be willing to lock that up until retirement because otherwise you end up pulling

from credit cards, which ultimately hurt your overall well-being in the long-term. there is a really good plan here . it is very universal savings account. your money gets locked up until retirement, but it allows all americans to save for emergency needs and leave the money in those accounts, if they do not need it for emergencies. just making it more flexible, especially cell low income americans can participate by having their savings in an account that they can control and invest those funds for retirement and other needs. host: in new york, stephanie. go ahead. caller: i want to address the

young lady from the cato institute. i am tired now. you are saying they want to cut out social security. how can someone live on $1600 a month? you said everything should be private, but i do not think so. just like every working poor person in this country, the problem is that the rich people are not contributing the way that they are supposed to contribute. we are the ones contributing to social security, not those over $40,000. it is not fair to us. entering private partnership with these cutthroat people on wall street who take all the money from the poor people. they do not care about us and you want us to go into private? the republican stole from the

social security during the bush administration and during the reagan administration. tell them to give us our money back. host: if you want to factor in how many people you think depend on social security. guest: there were a lot of strong claims in there and i probably will not have time to debunk all of them, but i would like to say that the way social security is structured, if we want to talk about making it into more of a welfare program where people pay in at higher income without receiving commensurate and efficient, that is a discussion we can have but that is not how the system is set up right now. wealthy people also contribute just like everyone else. their benefits also reflect that.

they get lower levels of return on those taxes because they use a progressive benefit formula that provides higher benefits for lower earners compared to pre-retirement earnings. i think it makes logical sense because they have a greater ability to supplement social security. but i do think we should have a conversation about how social security can provide benefits for low income workers and what those benefits should look like. i think that is something where republicans and democrats could find a compromise. they just had a symposium looking at the program and potential reforms. if you look at the united kingdom, and has moved away from an earnings related benefit

towards a flat benefit that is predictable so that you know what you can expect from the system, which makes it easier to figure out how much you need to save to achieve that level of retirement income, where you are comfortable. the way that works in the u.k. is they will increase benefits for caregivers and others that have breaks in their employment history. they have not had consistent high earnings history. the program is more targeted and provide that poverty protection for people who need it the most. guest: i think the caller stated it very well. and as part of the compensation.

it is earned benefit and insurance. we have another program in 1972, a companion program called the supplemental security income program. it was a program for people with disabilities. one of the architects, the american people -- the program has not been expanded. this is supposed to keep people out of poverty. and yet it currently pays three

quarters of the poverty level. extremely restrictive assets. over that you lose your benefits. it really needs to be expanded. there are bills to expand it, but congress is not taken the steps. republicans have not allowed it to be expanded. they let it wither away. i agree. there is a concern because no one should retire into poverty. increasing or updating the minimum benefit and to expand the supplemental security income

program. the question of value rather than affordability. host: this is frank in pennsylvania on our line for those over 65. caller: i was wondering -- thank you for taking my call. i was wondering if you could do anything about the predators in social security. i got a nice vase on my social security. the exact amount that i got on my social security -- but they took all my money. is there anything you can do about that? host: you had cost-of-living increase? guest: i think you make a very good point. one of social security's

important features is that there is automatic annual adjustment. it is simply designed to make sure that the beneficiaries -- as important as this feature is, a measure of the cost of living for urban workers. it was only available in 1972 but that was insufficient. the cost of living of people with disabilities that spend disproportionate amounts on health care and the latest technology.

it is going faster than overall inflation. to smartphones, as you know, you keep getting new features and so forth. so congress directed the bureau to come up with a new measure and they did that and have been putting it out. but they need to take the next step. again, those that i mentioned, the standard and president biden have all come out. the caller is exactly right. it is better.

this is an increase. they need a double digit increase. there is no limit to it. but it should be updated. and then those benefits will go up. they will not erode but maintain that power. it has a compounding effect. guest: we disagree on the inflation adjustment, but even more important to point out is the reason that we have to protect years from this excessive inflation is because the deficit spending that the federal government is doing with social security and medicare contributing a large degree to that deficit spending, in addition to the higher interest rates that the federal government is now having to pay.

i think it emphasizes that we should protect all americans from excessive inflation, which is ultimately a hidden tax that hits people's bank accounts. money that they have not invested in real estate or other market asset. if you just have savings in your bank account, those get eroded from inflation. this is a double whammy as they bengs already voted and income is claiming at the same time. how do we protect all americans from insulation? it is a good thing that it exists, but that is to get our federal budget under control and closer to balance. it leads to a point where we are stabilizing to make one point.

the current u.s. debt is $34 trillion. over the next 30 years, congress is projecting to accumulate four times the publicly held debt that we have aggregated over the entire history of our nation. four times that over the next early years. this is clearly unsustainable. many have said we will face a fiscal crises over the next 15 to 20 years depending on economic conditions. they no longer think that is sustainable or that they will keep up buying government debt to continue to pay social security benefits without making any changes to the programs. congress needs to work together, which is why i think a fiscal commission will set up.

bringing both sides to the table to discuss important issues. guest: it does not add a penny to the deficit. our patchwork system of health insurance, paying the highest health care costs in the world with less good outcomes. the answer is to have universal health insurance. medicare for all. medicare was intended to be a first step by president roosevelt. president truman and then johnson. medicare for seniors in 1965 for those with disabilities.

it has not made any progress sense. it is time for another program. that is the way to control health care costs. that will help deficit. it will also help families avoid not having to pay so much. host: lumbar call from scott in maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm glad you can talk about the subject while smiling at each other. it is social security, not socialism security. i want to reiterate what what if you had mentioned. the debt is $34 trillion. as she pointed out, that seems, to me -- maybe i'm stupid, but how is that sustainable? it seems like we have an us

versus them society already based on class, age, race -- and our leaders are actually promoting this. but if you have 30% of the younger people and 40% of the older people -- there is also the demographic rake out there. they seem to be politicizing our differences. i think that is a scary thing, to be honest. we cannot afford to settle the younger generation with this enormous tax burden. host: final thoughts? guest: yes. i agree that it is not just a question of value. affordability is also important. given the aging of society and the benefits of social security paying to higher income earners, we need to look at more transformative change so the

program can fulfill its original purpose of providing property protection without undermining economic growth in the future of america's families and younger workers. guest: social security in the future will be more important than ever. we need to lower the drug costs, control health care cost by having medicare for all. we need to expand social security. the whole point of social security is to provide basic economic security to the american people. it is a political question of how much do we want collectively through the program of social security? how much do we want to do privately? social spending will be more important in the future, not less.

the numbers in congress, if they follow the will of the american people in terms of the best policy, they allow them to come up for a vote and we will expand social security and require the wealthiest to contribute their fair share. the american people will have greater economic security. host: there is the website. you can find her work at cato.org. a lot of future conversation on this topic, but thank you for giving us your time today. joining us i about 20 minutes

from now, the abundance institute talking about ai and its potential use when it comes to 2024 and elections. we will have that conversation. and independent, (202) 748-8002. you can call in open form now. washington journal will continue. >> c-span now is a free mobile app. live and on-demand. keep up with the day's biggest events. white house events, the court, campaigns and more in the world of politics, all at your fingertips. you can stay current and find scheduling information.

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nonfiction book releases as well as industry news and trends. >> washington journal continues. host: this is the part of the forum where you can call in. if you want to call in, call (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for independents it is (202) 748-8002. you can make comments on our social media sites. rob, in new york. a starting us off on this open forum. good morning. caller: good morning. just been bouncing off of the previous segment.

you know, i am college educated. and for me, the world of investing in the stock market, which is what the cato girl was promoting -- it is difficult. private accounts, to have people doing it themselves, you're talking about poor people and middle-class people, and educated people. that will create a mess for a lot of people, getting ripped off, bad advice, and treasuries, having the social security treasuries is down-to-earth and smart. this highfalutin investing world is not doing the right thing for the average person, but my other comment -- i will make it quick. it is that you know, not to make

this about trump again, but i think that trump is really afraid of other world leaders like vladimir putin, the leader of china. i think they are much smarter than he is. i think they know much more about world affairs and they know more about their own government. the idea -- i think that trump ultimately shies away from and is afraid of being embarrassed by them. this whole business by is telling marjorie taylor greene to promote not funding ukraine -- i think it comes back to his fear and his insecurity, and his ignorance. host: ok. let's hear from carl from arkansas.

caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. first off, social security, i had to retire early. i took rid -- early retirement, even though i worked 30 years. i took early retirement. when you take early retirement -- they cut my benefits. i think it was around 800 thousand dollars -- $800,000. i am past. i am 68 years old now. so they did not reinstate the amount that they deducted. and needless to say, you barely

get by on social security. it was absolutely all i have coming in. is there a law or something? is there something you can do? i feel like that is unfair. i did work putting it in. it was a physical thing why i had to retire. and they punished me, i feel like. and -- host: the best that he may want to do is check out the mobile office of social security administration may live. they may be able to answer questions about taking retirement early and how that might impact you down the road. chicago, hello. caller: those talked about

previously, i need an answer for how george bush was able to take our security money to use for the iraq war and to leave us citizens with an iou. he needs to pay back where the government needs to pay it back to u.s. legal citizens who have paid into it our whole life. and if our government has enough money to pay ukraine and all these other countries, they can pay back social security to the hard-working citizens of this country. i think more people need to realize and she left us with an iou in the till. our government needs to pay for giving money to ukraine. they can give money everywhere

else but they cannot give us our money back. think about contacting your senators and governors about that. host: susan in new jersey. you are next. though. caller: -- hello. caller: good morning. i enjoyed the previous segment and i wanted to make some comment. it was a brief message about funding for medicare and then at the end, there was a comment about universal health care, i am in favor of that. i think these private insurance companies should get out of the health care business. i think that the federal government needs to stop paying its insurance companies for these medicare disability -- not disability, but disadvantage plan. about 50% of people who are of

age for medicare are involved in these disadvantage plans. the government is paying a lot more to the insurance companies and was expected to support these plans. people are lured in by savings. they are not getting the end-of-life care that they need. i wish i had been able to ask one of the women, how do you get these higher earners to contribute to social security? most of them are not even receiving a w-2. host: in texas, tim on the republican line. caller: my question is -- i hear different accounts of the social security funds being used for other government expenditures. i thought the government expenditures could not tap into social security. is it social security protected where it cannot be used for other government funds?

please clarify this. host: california, independent line. hello. caller: thank you for calling -- thank you for the program. in -- i found the previous conversations very interesting. i agree with her 100%. social security was implemented by president roosevelt. we have all contributed to it. as an educator -- i am a retired educator. before that, i worked private industry. so i contributed under that since i

i found the previous conversation interesting. --host: we have about 15 minutes

or so when it comes to open forum. you can post on our various social media sites too. in new york, republican line. hi. caller: this is david. caller:i read a book in the 1990's.

it was a great read. i would suggest it to anybody. my take on all of this, you need an economy that can satisfy all of these desires and needs within our economy. right now it is productivity that is lacking. the demographics do not look good because people are aging out all over the world. somebody has to produce this wealth. there are a lot of questions. i would recommend that read to anybody, "social insecurity," by dorcas hardy. host: north carolina is where gerald is joining us on our independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to speak on the social security issue. we have to take into consideration the people have been in politics for years.

it is crazy the percentage of income that they have compared to the percentage of income that social security receives. nancy pelosi has been making $175,000 per year. my thing is obviously they have the idea to support making money off of minimal income so why didn't they privatize earlier? normally i agree with republicans when it comes to that issue but social security is such an abundant amount of money invested into the stock market during the dot com era, we would be up in social security and other things. the war machine. we subsidize the poor, we subsidize the very wealthy by giving them government contracts for the wealthy. subsidize the middle-class. additionally we will have to raise taxes.

the government does not want to talk about that. either raise taxes or everything fails. you have to increase the amount of money you get to be able to support what you are paying out. that is pretty much what it is. we are in a pyramid scheme. the only way to make it work is increased taxes. support us while we hold up the american economy. host: gerald in north carolina giving us his thoughts on social security, you can continue to do the same or any other matters of politics during our open forum. axios reporting mike johnson will attend the manhattan courthouse today for former president trump's ongoing criminal trial. the story from axios adds that it is a new venue for displays of trump loyalty as well as the

high-profile race for running mate for president trump. the spokesman confirmed that axios will make a visit and johnson will make that visit today. watch out for that to play out as the day goes on when it comes to matters of new york. when it comes to international security, the headline from reuters that the white house, one of the things coming out of that a series of statements made by jake sullivan about what is going on in gaza. here is a portion from yesterday. >> we believe israel must due more to protect innocent civilians. we do not believe it is a genocide. we have ejected that proposition. the united states will continue to lead international efforts throughout the gaza strip

because innocent civilians should never go without food, water, medicine, shelter, sanitation or other basic necessities. active diplomacy by president biden has made a considerable difference in getting more aid into gaza. now we are doubling that diplomacy to press key actors in egypt. i have expressed this with my is really and egyptian counterparts yesterday -- with my israeli and egyptian, parts yesterday. united states has sent a massive amount of a to israel to protect and defend against all threats. we are continuing to send military assistance and we will ensure that israel receives the full amount provided. we applaud the shipment of 2000 pound bobs -- bombs. we do not believe they should be dropped in densely public at cities. we are talking to the israeli about this. we believe it would be a mistake

to launch a military operation into the heart of rough that would put millions at risk. host: you can see that on our website. the washington post reporting today that an army officer resigned in protest over the u.s. support of the war in gaza. major harrison man posted his letter on linkedin where his work history shows expertise as an analyst focused on middle east and africa. his time at the defense intelligence agency coincided with the attack last year. local authorities say more than 35,000 people have been killed, mostly civilians. u.s. support for israel has included weaponry and intelligence. "my work here is unquestionably contributed to that support.

the past month has presented us with the most heartbreaking images imaginable. i have been unable to ignore the connection between those images and my duties here that cause me incredible guilt and shame." that is the washington post this morning. jewel in texas on the democrat line. go ahead. caller: yes, i want to talk about so sure -- social security. israel is committing genocide. i want to talk about social security. it is not viable to be living on 1900 dollars per month paying $1000 of rent and $300 for the light bill thinking that you are supposed to have something else cut. it makes no sense. absolutely no sense. the republicans are doing absolutely nothing in congress. they are patting their feet

under the table, doing absolutely nothing. they are bringing bills that are irrelevant to the facts that are happening today. they are spending money. they took ppp loans. congress took ppp loans and did not have to pay them back. the congress are millionaires while we are sitting here suffering and we pay them. it makes no sense. host: that is jewel in texas. art in ohio, republican line. caller: good morning. i have an idea on social security. talks on social security benefits if your income is a social level, why couldn't they air mark -- earmark those funds back to social security rather than going back into the general fund? host: what difference do you think that would make? caller: it may be partial, it may be whole.

i don't know how much money they collect from social security benefits. host: ok. that is art in ohio. a couple of other news. the new york times, no jurors seated on the first day for senator bob menendez. it was a federal corruption trial of the senator who is charged with accepting cash from gold bars in exchange for political favors at home and abroad. by the end of the day, no jurors were selected for the trial taking place in manhattan, likely to last until the fourth of july. mr. menendez has resented jersey in congress for decades but the case was brought by prosecutors in the southern district of new york. the jurors will be asked to weigh the evidence against him. witnesses will be from the bronx and several counties north of new york city. the washington times are reporting something from the biden administration when it

comes to energy-related matters. they report that the president will announce today that he is quadrupling the tariff on electric vehicles from china 100% and sharply increasing duties on $18 billion in clean energy products including semiconductors, solar components and batteries. the tariffs on electric vehicles will rise from its current level of 25% starting this year according to a white house official. the story also adding that other tariffs will include for semiconductors going from 25% to 50% by 2025 with the tariff on ev batteries. non-ev batteries jumping between 5% by 2026. solar cells jumping by 50% this year. watch out for that as it plays out here in washington. fill in florida, independent line. caller: heh pedro.

i want to go back to the u.s. support of israel and the war on palestine. not just for me, but for all the listeners i want to recommend having allison weir on c-span as a guest to talk about the israel -palestine thing. the website is ifamericans knew.org. she has been on c-span before. she is an independent journalist and activist who has been to palestine many times and has been at for 25 years. what do we have to do as listeners as far as getting c-span to have her on as a guest, perhaps washington

journal in the morning and also, you just mentioned the military officer that resigned in protest. let us not forget the u.s. airman a couple of months ago who set himself on fire in front of the israeli embassy for the same reason he could not live with himself as far as the u.s. financial military and media support for what israel is doing over there on our dime, our 2000 pound bombs, are aircraft and intelligent. host: thank you for the suggestion. (202) 748-8000 democrats. republicans (202) 748-8001. independent (202) 748-8002 on this open forum. bernice on the democrat line.

hi. caller: i want to talk about childcare. they want us to have all of these babies but they do not want to help with childcare. we are spending all of our money in daycare with nothing to bring home. host: what would you want the federal government to do on the issue? caller: give us a break. something to help out with daycare. just help out. host: that is bernice in alabama. when it comes to this year's presidential election one of the people expected to campaign with president biden, senator bernie sanders. this is the headline from the washington post. it says he will work to boost biden among un-enthused voters saying, "it is no secret that there is not an in numerous amount of enthusiasm for either candidate. people who were voting for trump

have doubts about him. it is not biden versus god. it is biden versus trump. there is no question that biden is by far the superior candidate." more about the senator's support for president biden this election season. allen in wisconsin on the independent line. caller: good morning. i have a red alert out there. this is regarding student loans. the faa reauthorization bill just passed the senate and the democrats included language in that bill that would end the secretary's ability to broadly cancel loans but also would drastically increase the borrowing limit to over $100,000 for undergrads. the language, i read the language and it looks like it could be applied to all federal

student loans. this is very dangerous. in texas in march a flight school student suicided is plain. people who went to that school, many comments i saw talked about the high pressure financial stress that the school was putting on these kids, forcing them to take out more loans. they surmised that probably student debt was a big reason for that. not only is this bill very dangerous as written, but as it could be applied, even more dangerous. people in texas owe that apartment of education $120 billion in student loan debt. interest is $8 billion per year sent to the department of education. the governor of texas needs to stand up about this. the governors need to stand up and end this loan scam. host: that is allen in wisconsin.

his thoughts reflected in a recent posting on forbes website. congress wants to ban mass student loan forgiveness. check it out there. let's hear from charlotte, new york, republican line. caller: good morning. i am calling in regard to israel . on both sides there has been information, whether we believe it or not believe it. in order for there to be peace in that region there has to be evil that is taken out which is hamas. then maybe they can have something. the palestinians have to recognize that hamas is not their friend and they should be joining in the fight. i stand with israel. second of all, social security should be privatized because the government is not doing a very good job of taking care of it for us. thank you for taking my call. host: one more call from miguel in georgia, independent line. caller: yes.

my open forum will be in reference to the israel war. i think americans are misguided in so many aspects of foreign policy and foreign wars and highly influenced and negatively influenced pertaining to those lands. israel is a very prominent land. very rich in culture. very rich in religious checks. however, the bias which presents americans is the pro-american and the case of war is left as a minimum of a lesser understanding of not knowing what the content of the war is just as it was with the bush administration's bombing of

georgia. with a short note pertaining to social security. if social security is eradicated, that would mean mass poverty. it would be like the bronx or l.a. watts. host: that is miguel finishing off this open forum. thanks for all of you who participated. on more guest joining us, this is neil chilson of the abundance institute talking about concerns when looking at artificial intelligence and this year's election. that conversation coming up on washington journal. >> they want to come here and collect our welfare. no asylum cases. >> most people come here to make a better life if not for them, for their kids. my italian grandparents never spoke english. i never had a conversation with

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bloom and flourish. we think that is the major road to widespread human prosperity and we are excited to tackle the big problems that we think are in the united states right now. host: so much so, the major the director of policy. that reflects the concern they have. guest: we think ai has huge potential to create widespread human abundance. the ai has been around for a long time. we have talked about it in the past. this new set of generative ai creates a new set of tools that empower individuals to create new and powerful types of communications with each other. we think it is one of the big tools. as ai continues to be used throughout the economy, we think it will create a lot of opportunities for growth,

economic growth and personal growth. host: before this job you were at the federal trade commission, a position called chief technologist. how does that inform what you do now? guest: the federal trade commission's general consumer protection and one of the competition committees in the united states. my job is to bring understanding of the technology to that policy space. i spend a lot of time looking at reports but also cases and investigations that the ftc was doing to bring that length of technical expertise into the policy work that the federal trade commission was doing. host: before we go into the topic, the abundance institute, how is it supported? guest: it has a wide range of foundation, individual and corporate donors. we are very new so some of that is still being figured out. we just launched in april. host: does money come from the

ai community? guest: i am not 100% sure on the details of what companies but i think a lot of the ai community would be very interested in what we are doing. host: when it comes to the topic of the election, your institute put out the first of a series of reports about the election. what is the concern overall or the things you are concerned about with these reports? guest: almost as soon as chatgpt launched in october of 2022 was a discussion of how this technology might be used to impact elections especially in the u.s.. there was concern about the 2024 election. there is a lot of speculation. it is not clear what is happening. there were reports of incidents that came about. what we decided to do was launch an observatory, a tracker that will track all media mentions in the u.s. outlets of ai's use in elections. we have been running that using keyword tools that track all of that.

we lost it in january 21 one year before inauguration will be. we have released our first periodic report last week. 180 days out from the election. out of the 7500 articles that are identified, we spotted three incidents of uses of ai in elections. some of those are very interesting and we can talk more about what those are. the goal here is to track all the way up and through the election so that after the election we have a very good ground truth, a database that says what actually happened. a lot of the speculation that ai will fundamentally transform our elections, we have seen a lot of concern from academia, from politicians saying things like this is our last human election or that we need to get this

under control or we will not have a democracy anymore. we want to really get a good database of information that says what kind of impact is this actually having right now. host: before we look at specific examples, do what -- to what degree do you think ai has to sway an election? guest: there are a couple of different factors. one of the things people worry about early on would be that it would be used to hack election machines. it turns out that that vector from all the people that i talked to is very unlikely. the election system, the mechanics of the election system in the u.s. are very robust. it is the kind of attack surface that is very difficult to get around. ai does not change that much. the other way it might change things would be around misinformation. the question is how much does it increase misinformation in elections. i don't think that any watcher

of news or observer of u.s. politics is unaware that there is a lot of misinformation in election communication is already. people are generally quite skeptical of information. i think on the margins it will increase the amount of speech because these tools do make it easier for people, individuals to create very sophisticated content. but there is no reason to think that that speech will be out of balance. i think ai has the potential to help people who have, who are in marginalized communities who want to speak to politicians or politicians want to speak to them to connect them through things like automated translation. there are a lot of ways ai can help increase the robustness of democracy. there are some ways it can threaten it. status -- that's why we are doing this research. at the end of the election cycle we will be early have a set of

-- we will really have a set of data that expands the impact. host: you can call the line, (202) 748-8001 in the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones. text your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. one of the things that came back from the information you pull together was a call that took place for the new hampshire primary. set the call up for us. guest: this is a call that went out between 5000 to 25,000 people in new hampshire. it is not clear how people were . democrats, republicans, or a mix. the robo call was the voice of joe biden saying that if you vote in today's primary the republicans will win, or something like that. the implications are that it was trying to suppress voter turnout. that robo call went out to i

think hundreds of thousands of people who voted in that election. the secretary of state of new hampshire has since investigated this and said there was no evidence it suppressed folks. in fact, the republican primary that year, on the same day, had a record turnout. the democrat won had an average turnout for a year in which the democratic candidate is running unopposed. it doesn't appear to have had a suppressive effect. in a weird twist it was actually created by democratic strategist . he says, to promote the idea and concern around ai. it is an interesting case. host: here's the ad that took place before the new hampshire primary. [video clip] >> this is the new hampshire presidential preference primary. republicans have been trying to push nonpartisan and democratic voters to participate in their

primary. what a bunch of malarkey. we know the value of voting democratically when our votes count. it is important you save your vote for the november election. we need help electing democrats up and down the ticket. voting this tuesday only allows the republicans in their quest to reelect donald trump again. your vote makes a difference in november, not this tuesday. if you would like to be removed from future calls, please press 2 now. host: as far as the call itself, what did you think about the ability to reproduce the president in that way? guest: this technology is amazing, right? it is incredible that we can use these techniques to take a small sample of somebody's voice and replicate it. it can be used to lie, right. there are concerns about that. i think that the call itself, as we found out, didn't have a huge impact, but it is something that

voters should be aware of if they are getting unusual calls from people who sound like a certain person. they should pay attention and double check. especially with local election officials about what is going on. host: mika from north carolina. you are on with neil chilson of the abundance institute formally of the federal trade commission to talk about the 2020 four election. go ahead. are you there? i think that we are having a transmission problem and we cannot air, but we will try that call. if you are on, keep going -- or we will get back to you in a second. when it comes to the idea that you found out about the video being one part of those concerns of information, what things did you find that came back from the search that you did?

guest: two of the other incidents were an incident where there had been a deepfake created of taylor swift that had -- of her holding a sign that said "trump won, by then lost -- biden lost." it appears that those, especially the photo one, could have been done with traditional editing tools. it isn't clear that that was an ai-created problem. that was an incident that got reported as potentially an ai problem. the other one that we found in the time that we looked at was that there were trump supporters who spread these ai-generated photos of donald trump embracing african-american women and showing support from the african-american community. this one was a deepfake created by ai. there was a call-in show guy in

florida who admitted he made the -- he made those. there was another before we started the tractor. that was the use in a desantis ad of some fake pictures of trump and dr. fauci together. that used an ai tool and was in a campaign ad. i think that was the only one we've seen so far, that use of ai technology and that explicit of away in a campaign at. host: they highlight in npr that during the and it was where the president appears to be hugging dr. fauci? guest: i think that's right. host: among other pictures that were real? guest: what is interesting is that you would think that this would be the sort of thing that would be hard to notice, but, because these are high-profile candidates obviously there is a

lot of scrutiny on the acts that they put out. it was identified relatively quickly that this had fake images and it. the december's campaign -- the desantis campaign is obviously no more, so i'm not sure that the strategy benefited them the way that they hoped it would, but again it is another incident in the tracker of the 7005 hundred media reports that we saw, this is one of the three or four that keeps popping up. host: this is the bbc publishing the photo of the former president with african-americans reporters that was deemed false. the bbc picking that up. that's one of the conversations that we will have when it comes to 2024 matters and artificial intelligence. let's try mika again. caller: i'm currently studying artificial intelligence programming in college. there are major issues that i see with it that could affect our political landscape.

mostly it is our political leaders are uneducated on ai. they have no idea how it operates, how it is trained, the data sets used for it, and so on. has your institute looked into trying to create training programs for our congress so they understand the concept of this technology a little better when they are making policies? i don't want another ai winter to happen i soon as i get my degree. guest: i don't want that for you either, mika. the call back to ai winter is interesting. ai has gone through several bidens with -- has gone through several periods where there's a ton of excitement and then it is integrated into technology and no one things if it is ai anymore. they think of it is computers. getting regulation right in this space is critical.

to do that, you don't need to know everything about the technology, but you need to know what i call the policy relevant characteristics of ai. my institute has created some educational materials. we have use them for state legislators where a ton of the legislative action is happening. congress moves slower. it has a lot of competing interests. we are making inroads in congress as well. they are also being talked to a lot by people from industry and from advocacy groups who are trying to bring congress up to speed on this stuff. each with their own political angle. we do think that it's important to get principled educational materials that will help make the right decisions around how to regulate in this space, absolutely. host: eric in antioch, california. caller: good morning, everyone. i was wondering, it looks like the election is going to come

down to five or six states. out of those states, could ai possibly tell you what individuals you have to concentrate on and be able to tell by algorithms how to influence those individuals to make them vote the way you want? guest: it is a great question. political strategists have for decades at this point been selling tools that can help identify what our potential voters in a state are persuadable. it is hard to change people's minds. trying to figure out how to do that -- ai doesn't have a particular advantage on that. most of the techniques that we used in targeted political advertising are statistical techniques. you could call them artificial intelligence because they use computers and algorithms, but this generative ai doesn't create a new set of tools for

identifying people who are particularly persuadable. i don't know that that is a big difference. ai does create a way to customize messages -- generative ai -- to the issues that the politician and targeted voter -- the intersection of what they care about. maybe there are tools that help politicians or candidates reach people who they would not otherwise be able to connect with, but i don't think that the targeting tools have changed that much under this new wave of generative ai. host: how much background in technology do you have to have to use ai sophisticated like the one we saw with biden? how much training do you need? guest: not a ton. it turns out that the person who created the biden robo call was a new orleans street performer.

this democratic strategist had hired them to do this. i don't think he had any formal technology training. a lot of these tools are point and click. and they are powerful and interesting. i encourage the listeners to try out these tools and become familiar with what they can and cannot do. that familiarity with the tools will help people understand their limits. also, pay attention to what they are hearing and maybe bring a skeptical eye to it with some educated background. host: do you see a future where some kind of transparency is needed when you look at an ad and see if ai is used in the ad and it has to be identified in some way? guest: a lot of bills are looking at that. in the political space there are some bills actively looking at that. we have disclosures in political ads already for various things. the challenge is, as i mentioned before, once ai works we don't

call it ai anymore. your cell phone's camera has ai algorithms built into it. if you take a video, does that count as an ai-created ad? i think that there are difficult definitional questions around what would count as ai. the safe advice would be to say, if i the lawyer for a candidate, to say put this disclosure in because we are not sure. if you have that disclosure on every ad it doesn't add anything. it doesn't add any information for the voter. i think there are real trade-offs. and it carves out some of the important messages that the candidates may want to get to the public. i think that there are real trade-offs and having forced to disclosures in that space, but it's something that congress is looking at. host: neil chilson for this conversation. dave in south carolina. hello. caller: good morning, pedro. why is the basic deceit that is being practiced by ai purveyors,

why is this deceit not prosecutable? this type of interference in our election and control of our government is unheard of. i don't understand why those that have this are allowed to practice what they do. guest: it is a really great point, dave. in the commercial context lying is already criminal. if you're lying about your product or your prices, that is criminal. in the political space, political speech is highly protected by the first amendment. mistruths, or something -- and it is often subjective. however, there are state and federal laws against lying about things like win the election is or where your polling place is. it doesn't matter what tool you use. if you use pen and paper or some

sophisticated ai. if you are lying to people to suppress voters and suppress the turnout by lying about the process of the election, that is a crime and can be prosecuted. host: we have a viewer off of x. if china or russia pulledhe trigger on ai, the western world would have no choice but to do the same. do you agree? guest: i'm not sure if this is in the context of the election? host: their ability to influence elections. guest: if we take it as in the elections, again, it is hard to know exactly how ai would be used. in many cases the goals of foreign adversaries in elections isn't to get -- is not to determine a specific outcome. it's to undermine the american trust in the electoral process. for that, you don't need sophisticated techniques.

the sketch year that the techniques look -- sketchier the techniques look it can trigger someone's alarm saying, it looks like something is sketchy in this election. this generative ai doesn't ramp up the ability to undermine our confidence in elections. if that is the goal of many of these third-party actors, ai doesn't change that too much. host: is there a way to measure how much more sophisticated generative ai is now versus when it first made the scene? guest: there are a lot of benchmarks these companies use to test their models against. lots of different things. many different capabilities. and they are different for video or audio or text, which are the three main areas in which we have generative ai right now. when we are seeing is that this stuff is getting much better. chatgpt just launched a new

version earlier this week. it is very impressive. it can do live translation between two people. it has a lot of potential for helping people out in their daily lives. it is much more powerful than 3, 4, 5 years ago. guest: chris -- host: chris, you are on. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question and a comment. one of the statements earlier in the broadcast, he said that this tool has the capability to increase speech. i was wondering if you could comment on what he meant by that. the other question with regards to regulation, we already know that the technology typically leads everything and regulation

follows at a slow pace behind technology. for example, this guy who wasn't very technical did an ad? what happens when the real professionals do it? especially in the campaign space? what kinds of things does he anticipate can go wrong? host: a great set of questions. i think that those are quite related. guest: when i was talking about increasing speech, it empowers people who don't have sophisticated studios, cameras, or editing software to generate something that is persuasive, compelling, and professional-looking. in that way it is a level setter. i think that what that means is that people whose voices have been were marginalized or upstart candidates trying to take on a big income it -- big incumbent, it levels the

playing field between those two. if you look at how the tools are being used now, especially the image ones, just the explosion of rich, interesting images i think is an example of how much these tools can increase the ability of someone to express themselves. i think that that holds true in the political space as well and i expect to see a lot of content around politics where people are using these tools to speak. i think that it is sort of scary if you're sitting at the top and saying "i don't know about all of these people having these powerful tools, it might be a threat to those of us who are already sophisticated in our tools and techniques." ultimately, it's a good thing for democracy because we want people to be able to express their selves -- express themselves and get their ideas out there. the second part of your question, this is more of a level setter than a level up for

the people who already have sophisticated tools. that is what we've seen in the job space. what we are learning from generative ai is that it is helping people new to jobs or who are inexperienced weekly move up the learning curve to become people who are much more -- they are putting out more sophisticated work products in a shorter time, even if they are not reaching the peaks of the top performers in a company immediately. it seems to be a level setting process, and that will probably hold true in the political speech space as well. host: (202) 748-8000 for eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 for mountain and pacific time zones. there is a story today that senator schumer is going to unveil what he described as a roadmap when it comes to looking at ai. the story highlights the fact that it isn't legislation to

direct the bill packing the technology. asked what the roadmap should contain or look at, what would you say? guest: this is a culmination of senator schumer having a series of hearings on the hill and closed-door sessions with a lot of people from industry and other places to talk about the technology and what are the issues. i think that in this roadmap, i'm sure it's in there, but i think that one of the most important pieces is how does government use this technology? not just in criminal justice or overall administration of government, but how do they make sure that the government and the military are taking advantage of this technology in a way that is both safe, that respects the rights of citizens, and that actually increases the capability of government to deliver on what it supposed to do for the american citizen. i think that that is an important thing that should be low hanging fruit for government.

it doesn't require pushing a lot of mandates about a technology externally. it does require some direction from congress and the executive branch about what agencies should be doing and thinking about as they are evaluating whether or not to use these tools. host: i suppose there is the sweet spot of regulation when it comes to evaluating what it does and not putting a chill on the industry overall? guest: when it comes to ai, because it is a general-purpose technology, like electricity, it is important to look at the sectors in which it is being used. we already have -- for example, using ai in health care. one place where it has enormous potential to deliver customized drugs and treatments based on your specific health needs. we already have a pretty robust regulatory regime there. how does ai fit in? how did the tools fit into that robust regime? let's regulate it as it is being used in health care or transportation or

telecommunication rather than attempting to regulate ai generally. which would be let's regulate computer generally. it is a difficult task and probably won't achieve the efforts of the goals we are trying to achieve. host: has the abundance institute been part of the conversation when it comes to the roadmap? guest: we are pretty new, as i said, but a lot of our partners and people we work with have participated in those. i think that the schumer roadmap rollout and committees investigate we will certainly be active in educating legislators on what are the right pathways? host: also senator klobuchar is set to have a meeting today as well. guest: klobuchar i think is actually due on wednesday to introduce two bills that are around ai and elections.

i had testified before her in the previous round on this. i'm skeptical of the function of these bills for some of the reasons we talked about. one of the mandates disclosure and transparency and i think that it is overbroad. it tackles -- that one tackles political ads, but the other one would ban the use of deepfakes or ai generated technology. it has the challenge of how do you define ai? does that include the ai in my camera? it is also broader than political ads. it might include any political speech. if you tweet your ai generated picture of donald trump, that might fall under this particular law. i think that that raises a bunch of first amendment questions given that political speech is so important and protected by the first amendment in this country. host: raul in california. thank you for waiting. caller: i wanted to say that i

think ai during this time, right before an election, is very dangerous. what are we going to do with, let's say, president trump -- former trump, decides ai cheated him out of the presidency? he already almost tore down the white house once, what can happen next time and who would be responsible? guest: i share your concern in this sence. -- in this sense. ai thus far hasn't had an enormous impact on elections. it could change.that is why we are monitoring it. at the end of this process we hope to look back and say if ai had impacts on various races. that would directly address that challenge. i do worry that there is a

segment of the american population that is already skeptical of the robustness of our electoral process. i worry that if we talk about over and over the threat that ai has here, as i said our tracker picked up 7500 articles for three incidents that did not have impact on the elections, that type of hype and concern could itself lead people to be skeptical afterwards of the electoral outcome. i worry about that. i think that it's important for us as media consumers and the media producers out there to be thoughtful and how they talk about the use of ai in electoral politics. in particular, not jumping to conclusions that something was ai-generated, when many of the video and picture editing tools that we have right now are plenty powerful enough without ai to create some sort of suspicious photo or video.

not jumping to ai as the blame. also following the story through. not just the initial release or identifying of an incident, but what impact did it actually have on voters? i think that those two things could go a long way towards having people be realistic about what impact ai might have. it won't stop politicians who have outcomes that did not go in their favor from blaming x, y, z for the reason it didn't go in their favor, but i think that it will help voters moderate their own concerns and look at the world through more realistic eyes about what is going on in our politics. host: someone sd u can elaborate that it seems ai programs are only heartening people's political positions. technology changes but political values stay. guest: that's interesting. i think often when we talk about

ai, especially congress early on and continuing talking about ai and speech we blended them with the social media context we are in. a lot of the problems that people are saying are ai problems are kind of the same problems people have been concerned about with social media primarily. this is a new way to create content, but the only way the content like that has an impact is if it is distributed widely. that is social media or traditional media. i think that we need to separate those two things. is it ai causing the problem or the distribution? is it the concern that we have long had around the distribution of content in different ways that might be the proper place to focus attention? host: would you say that platforms have to take more responsibility? if that is the case, how do you keep watch? guest: it depends on how you identify the problem.

i think that platforms have a responsibility to create an environment that their users want to participate in. they do that in a lot of different ways through content moderation. that means having a robust discussion on the platform. people arguing it has long been the case that the best way to deal with lies is rarely to van or suppress them, but to open them to sunlight and discussion. social media platforms are a great place for people to disagree, if you spend any time on them. it is like x.com community notes where you can have a robust discussion about the content of the tweet and push back on something that you think is false. i think that those types of tools continue to evolve. i think that social media company should look at how they

can help that bottom-up discussion happened without trying to suppress the actual publication of content. host: part one of your report. what with the other part to deal with? guest: there will be updates over time. we will issue them at 90, 60, 30, and then a postmortem after the election. 90, 60, 30 days before the election and then a postmortem after the election. as the discussion around politics ramps up, volume will as well. we will continue to tweak our algorithm a little. the ultimate goal is to identify all of the situations in which ai were used in u.s. elections and to build a database that people can look at and say i know about this incident and what happened. here is some evidence about what effect it had or didn't have. these reports are available on our website. the website is abundance.

institute you can go there and check it out. host: neil chilson is the director of ai policy for the abundance institute. that is it for the program today. another addition of "washington journal" comes your way at 7:00 in the morning. see you then. ♪ >> congress rern later today for legislative business and vos. the house is back at noon easter lawmakers will vote on legislation to reauthorize faa programs for five years. rrent programs are set to expire friday midnight. they will csider a bill

requiring want tke sellers to disclose the total ticket prices including fees. a resolution in support of law enrcement. the senate is back at 3:00 p.m. eastern. seto will debate the nomination of courtney o'donll to be the u.s. permanent representative to the. educational,in and organization. she is a senior advise certify to vice president harris. the vote will be 5:30 eastern. wah live coverage on c-span. and see the senat-span 2. and a quick reminder being all of our congressional coverage with the video app or online at c-span.org. >> they want to come here and collect or welfare so no asylum cases.

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