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supports c-span as a pubc service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. welcome back. we are joined now by stephen moore. he is the trump 2024 campaign senior economic advisor, also a former trump economic task force advisor from 2020 and the current founder of the committee to unleash posterity. welcome to "washington journal." can you hear me, mr. moore? guest: good. super to be with you. i so much appreciate what you do at c-span for public dialogue on these important policy issues, so i am honored to be with you. host: wonderful. looking forward to hearing what our callers have for you later on in the show. first, can you talk about the committee to unleash prosperity, your point of view, and who funds your organization?

guest: so this was an organization we founded -- i think it was about six or seven years ago. it was four of us. larry kudlow -- steve forbes, and myself. those three are icons in the economic movement. we wanted a platform to have the four of us be able to speak out with one voice about the important issues of the day, and we all got involved with trump in 2016. of course, larry kudlow became the chief economist for the trump administration. so we all are still very involved on helping any candidate, whether for senator or governor, to provide the best economic advice. host: can you talk about the advice you are giving the

current trump campaign and your role in this election? guest: i am kind of one of the advisors with people like kevin hassett and people like larry kudlow and others. we provide donald trump with policy proposals. one thing about donald trump is he is a businessman. he understands the economy about as well as anyone. i think one of the major differences between these two candidates is joe biden has never really had a job in his life. in fact, he said that recently, that he had never gotten a paycheck from a private company, and trump has been a very from perspective. one man is a lifelong politician, the other has been in business. my point is, when i see donald trump, we talk about the economy, but he gets it. he understands it, because he has done it. he has created jobs, created businesses. he has really good instincts about how to make the economy

work. host: a recent piece on foxnews.com, biden 2.0, five ways the president plans to mess up the economy in his second term. without reading the whole thing, can you give us a highlight of what you think those are? guest: when you look at what joe biden has proposed -- by the way, i've been in politics 40 years. i've been doing c-span now three decades. most of the time, when an election comes up, the democrats will try to move to the middle and say we are moderate, you know, we have centrist positions. to joe biden's credit, he is not saying i am moderate, he is not saying i am for sensible middle positions. he has embraced a very radical left-wing agenda. maybe that is what america wants, but he proposed the biggest tax increase in american history, including doubling the capital gains tax, including raising our tax on businesses to a higher tax rate than even

russia and china have. it would increase the death tax and destroy investment in this country. on top of the massive deficits he has already imposed on the country, he has imposed another $2 trillion of spending. one of the things that makes me nervous, as a conservative, is i do believe there will be an attempt by biden and a democratic congress, if that is what happens in the election, that there will be a move to tax the supreme court with more liberal judges, in other words, at that is so they have a majority. i am worried about the filibuster in the senate, one of the safeguards that protects the interests of the minority, that they may try to get rid of that filibuster. there was an attempt to do that in the last couple years. those things would be dangerous to our representative of government. host:host: you mentioned taxes, one of those things you brought up just now, and i want to pull up something from the brookings.

william gale, who is a fellow at the brookings institution, said of e household tax formincluded in the trump 2017 bill, tax bill, expire 2025, meaning that whoever wins theion excuse me -- ver ns the election will have the opportunity to either fit to extend the legislation or let it lapse. an important effect of extending the 2017 tax cuts is it is estimated to cost an extra $3.8 trillion over the next decade without signify cuing services. the federt would balloon to 211% of gdp by 1154, compared to about 11% of gdp right now. by this argument, extending the existing tax cuts would be damaging to the debt and deficits, while you are arguing in your piece that biden would

damage to that and deficits. guest: this is incredibly important. you have two diametrically opposite views of what we should do with the american economy. what trump believes is we have to unleash american businesses and workers. we have to have the best economy in the world. we have to grow the economy -- by the way, people know he can do it, because he did it when he was president. before covid, we had the best economy in american history, with the lowest poverty rate for every group. we had the lowest unemployment, a booming economy, then, of course, covid hit, and everything changed. it is really interesting, because you talk about the debt -- i think it is safe to say there is no president, at least in my lifetime, and i've been doing policy for 40 years, that has been as financially reckless as this president. he increased the debt projection over the next 10 years by almost $10 trillion.

he came in and spent $6 trillion. most people know that $6 trillion of spending, borrowing, and printing of money created the inflation that has been such a damage to the american worker and the american family. the bottom line people have to understand is, -- the middle class saw a $6,200 again in their purchasing power and income. that is a big game, maybe the biggest ever under any president. biden has come in, in his first three years, about three and a half years, in office, the average family has lost $2000 because of high inflation. in other words, when people say, why are people angry? because the average family in america today is poorer than three and half years ago. i remember the first campaign i

ever paid attention to is when ronald reagan ran against rumi carter in 1980, in that very famous election. you may recall that, at the end of the debate that jimmy carter and ronald reagan had, reagan looked right at the camera and asked the american people, are you better off than you were four years ago? of course, at that time, americans said no, we are not worse off, and reagan won the election. i think that is the same question donald trump will ask the american people when they debate in june and later in the fall. are you better off financially than you were four years ago, and for the vast majority of americans, that answer is no. host: i want to follow-up on the point you made about purchasing power, because there is a report out from the congressional budget office this week about how inflation has affected household at different income levels since 2019, right before biden came into office. the cbo says, on average,

purchasing power increase, but the effect varied by income group. in particular, for households in every point i'll, or fifth, of the income situation, their share of income required to pay for their consumption bundle decreased on average, because income grew faster than prices did over that four-year period. houses in the top quintile had the largest decline on average --

food prices are up 20%, gas prices 50%, mortgage payments 30%, 40%. people are really suffering from

higher prices. you know that because you talk to people every day on c-span. the bottom line is really big gains in income under trump and really swift declines in income hunter biden. -- income under biden. host: the dow industrial average top 3000 for the first time. it is a milestone that appeared implausible a little more than two years ago when the federal reserve began raising interest rates to cool an overheated economy. the forecast abounded with the central bank ending the era of ultra low rates. as the months passed, employers added jobs and people kept splurging on big-ticket items like cars and tickets to see taylor swift. the recession predicted by so many economists hasn't materialized, giving investors hope that stocks might keep climbing. the biden campaign

communications director responded to this news saying that this is the toughest news yet for the one guy in america rooting for the economy to crash because he thinks it will help him politically. donald trump promised the stock market would crash if joe biden was elected. instead, jill biden has broken economic records across-the-board. your reaction to that? guest: i love a booming stock market. kimberly, we have 150 million americans who own stocks, individually through their own purchases, pension funds, or 401(k) plans. this benefits everyone when you have a great stock market, it is fantastic. i want to go back to the early 1980's to highlight what an

achievement this is. if you go back to the summer of 1982, the time ronald reagan entered office, the dow jones industrial average, are you ready? astound people -- i know this will astound people. it was 800. 40 years later we are at 40,000. this is the greatest wealth creation in civilization. no country has ever lived through anything like what we've seen in america that contributes to our companies, workers, economic policies. fantastic. one thing i been saying on c-span for 30 years, and it is so sinister we didn't do this, we should have allowed workers -- this is something like steve forbes and i have been arguing for for decades. we should allow every worker instead of having to take 10% of their paycheck and send it to the black hole of social

security, they should be able to voluntarily put that into a 401(k) plan, put it into the stock market in index funds. if we did that -- i just turned 64 and i have been paying social security for the last 40 years. if i'd been able to put 10% of my paycheck into an index fund today, and when i retired -- your eye will be eligible for social security. instead of getting a check for $2500 a month i would get $10,000 a month. so, let's reform social security. was let every single young person take that money and voluntarily, if they choose, and put it into an index fund rather than having it go into social security. every single american would be a pension millionaire if we had done that. that is point number one. the second point, it is true that the dow jones is up to 40,000. if you remember, kimberly, you have to account for inflation.

if you take into account inflation, the stock market is barely up at all. the stock market is up by 22% but inflation is up by 20%. it isn't that great of an achievement. host: the rate of inflation has been declining and is now closer in line to historical averages. guest: since biden came into office the stock market is up 25% and inflation is up 20%. the real gain in the stock market is only about 4% to 5%. much lower than the real gain in stocks under trump that was 25%. much, much, much higher. there is no question that people didn't much better -- people did much better in the market under trump because there wasn't any inflation. the 9% inflation doesn't go away. ask anyone at the grocery store.

look at what it costs to buy a box of wheaties. host: a bunch of folks want to talk to you. i have one more question before we go to our callers. one more story in the washington journal for you. at the end of april an exclusive said that trump allies draw up plans to find the fed's independence, drafting policies to erode the federal reserve's independence if the president wins a second term. is this true? guest: no, it isn't. i have been telling reporters that that's a false story. there was no truth whatsoever. we do believe in the independence of the fed. we would like to see more transparency at the fed. we would like to see more rules-based monetary policy. so that investors and americans know what the fed is going to do. the fed should be independent

and it will resume its independence when trump wins next year. there will be a new fed chairman. i don't know who that will be, but i want to assure people that the independence of the fed from the white house, from politics, will be preserved. host: specifically, on two points in this article, it says that trump allies argue that he should be consulted on interest-rate decisions and that also he should have the authority to out jerome powell as fed chair before his term ends, and that the white house should be able to review and more forcefully use the treasury department as a check on the central bank. none of those things are true? guest: it is true we think the president should be informed about what's happening at the fed, when they will raise and lower rates, and many decisions the fed makes. i think that the fact that you have a federal reserve board

that is completely divorced from any political accountability i think is a problem. i'm not saying that the president should be able to override whatever decision the fed makes. the other thing is there is an open question about whether or not the president would have the authority to remove the fed chairman. i am not a constitutional scholar so i cannot answer that question. i have asked some people who are constitutional scholars who say that the president should have the authority to do it. others say that the president doesn't. i'm probably not the right person to ask if the president would have that authority. host: do you think you should? guest: jerome powell will have one more year as chairman if trump wins the election in november. i would advise the president to keep jerome powell as the fed chairman for another year. then, when he is out for

re-nomination to nominate someone else other than jerome powell. i think that jerome powell has been a pretty poor fed chairman. he is the one who is also responsible for allowing the inflation rate to go up to 9.1%, the highest rate in 40 years. that has done great damage to the american family. inflation is a killer. it's like a sales tax you pay every time you go to the store. host: have tons of folks with questions. democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independents on (202) 748-8002. just because we have a lot of folks who have questions, i will ask everyone to keep it concise. starting with kalamazoo, michigan on our line for republicans. good morning, jean. caller: my question is about discretionary spending. if congress holds the purse

strings, how does president biden, how is he able to forgive student loans and give cell phones to illegals and do all the things he's doing? does he have an unlimited amount of discretionary spending? host: thank you for your question. guest: is that a great question. it's a great question. i don't think that there is any doubt that the president has overstepped his authority. jean is exactly right. if you look at the constitution it says that the spending happens by congress. it has to be authorized and appropriated by congress. there was never any appropriation of money for student loan bailouts. i think student loan bailouts are one of the craziest things i've ever heard of. the middle worker who never went to college should have to pay higher taxes for people who did go to college i think is crazy. even if you agree with the policy, kimberly, the president

does not have unilateral authority to spend money like this. by the way, it is amazing because the supreme court has told jill biden, you do not -- told joe biden you don't have the authority to do this. the supreme court you -- says you can't do this and biden is doing it anyway. then they say donald trump is a threat to democracy. this is an egregious breach of power by the presidency and it should be grounds for impeachment that he feels he can spend money without the authority of congress and when the supreme court says you don't have the power to do it. host: john in grand rapids, michigan on the line for democrats. can you turn down the volume on your tv? turn down the volume on your tv and ask your question. while we wait for you to get that together, let's go to joe

in dayton, ohio on the line for republicans. caller: good morning from a cloudy day from dayton, ohio. mr. moore, i love you very much, along with charles payne, larry kudlow, and the beautiful maria. mr. moore, i want to give my democrat friends some facts. when joe biden took office -- mr. moore has already given us quite a few facts. can you ask your question? caller: sure do. mr. moore, i wanted to tell you, i can't wait until trump gets into office. our economy is a disaster. it is 19% under joe biden. also, the joe biden lied about reducing the deficit by $1.7 trillion. he has bottomless pinocchios by the washington post on that

comment. our interest rates are at a 40-year high. host: what is your question for mr. moore? caller: that is it. that is my point. host: nikki in rockaway park on the line for independents. caller: good morning. what a great opportunity. one quick question. why did you avoid answering the moderator's question about where you receive your funding from? second question, why is it the only time that i ever see you is on fox news running propaganda? host: he is on c-span right now, nikki. he is currently on c-span. ok. can you address the question on funding for your organization? guest: sure.

by the way, i do fox news but for two years i was with cnn, kimberly, which is obviously a more liberal station. by the way, this -- this is probably my 40th appearance on c-span. i love coming on your show and talking to people of all different political persuasions. our committee is a 501(c)(3), a nonprofit organization, charitable, educational organization. we get money from our contributors who voluntarily donate. by the way, we do not get one penny. not one penny from government. we are totally privately funded. we don't have a bias in favor of government because we are taking funding from government agencies. host: joe in maine on the line for independents. caller: good morning, steve.

that is used even more lying about being an economic advisor to donald trump. you were never an economic advisor to donald trump. you had an application in and it got thrown out because you had a bankruptcy and a very messy divorce. host: all right. would you like to address whether or not you were ever an economic advisor for donald trump? guest: was i an economic advisor for trump? is that the question? yeah. i served on the president's economic recovery task force from covid. it's true that i was nominated to be on the federal reserve board and it's true that i didn't make it. i had to withdraw. it's true that i did have a messy divorce. those things are true. it is not true -- i will tell you a very quick story.it tells people about how sinister the irs is. one of the reasons that i had withdraws because i had a cash

lean that the irs claimed that i owed the irs $50,000 in unpaid taxes. my wife and i said, wait, we actually think that we overpaid by $50,000. i think that this relates to a lot of people. you get notes on the irs and they don't tell you why, they just say send as a check for $50,000. to make a long story short, this was the new york times put it on the front page of their newspaper. steve moore owes $50,000 in taxes. after it was over we could a letter from the irs that says, we made a mistake. you overpaid your taxes. you didn't underpay your taxes. of course, the new york times never reported that. it is so unfair. the irs is a really dangerous organization because they go after people for political purposes. you are literally, literally guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

that is why hiring 80,000 new irs agents like biden wants to do is dangerous for our country. host: scottsboro, alabama on the line for republicans, go ahead, stand. -- stan. caller: good morning. i have a question, mr. stephen moore. i want to find out where he does get his funding. he said he doesn't get it from the government. he was funding you, mr. moore? host: you did mention that you get your contributions from private donors for the committee to unleash prosperity. are there particular donors that are significant contributors to your group? guest: by the way, we have about $4 million to $5 million budget. we aren't a huge organization. it is basically individual private donors. host: no names you want to give out? guest: those are not disclose a able.

any organization that is a 501(c)(3) is not required to disclose who their donors are. they are basically -- we get most of them from individuals not corporations. not a penny from government. host: go ahead, cindy, and make sure you turn down your volume on the tv. caller: my question is to mr. moore, since he thinks that donald trump is the greatest president and biden is the worst. i need him to be specific as to what donald trump is going to do if, and i hope not, becomes president. guest: that is a great question. the first thing we are going to do,donald trump said this, we wl produce american energy, we will produce our oil, our gas, clean coal, will use nuclear power and we will return to being the number one producer of energy in

the world. as we were under donald trump, it is important wrinkle to understand and donald trump's policy was to produce every single problem oil that we could because it is good for the american economy and a produces an incredible number of jobs and we want to be energy independent, we do not want to be dependent on iran or china and russia, we want to get it from texas. we did that. for the first time in my lifetime, under donald trump we were completely energy independent and energy dominant country in the world and that is, i want to make sure people understand this, that is not just good for our economy, obviously it is, it is also really important thing for the american national security, i do not think that you would have soviet tanks in ukraine today if biden had not come in and stop american production of oil and gas. . i do not think you have the problems we are seeing. >> very, very soon.

thank you for bearing with us. >> venezuela, our enemies. we are going to make our tax cuts permanent, we can get the economy moving again and we will get rid of some of these onerous regulations, we will try to reduce taxes on middle-class families and small businesses. that is the agenda. host: there is a headline hear from our and employers, cnn, the april fundraiser in palm beach, florida and a pump told wall street door nurse he wants to extend -- donald trump told wall street donors he wants to extend tax cuts and he would keep their taxes low and extend the 2017 tax cuts. is that a campaign policy? guest: i want to make sure

people understand this, we did this, i helped write the tax cut with larry kudlow and the best economists and by the way, all of the opponents and democrats voted for this, not one of them and it was an incredible success. one of the things we did was we took the american tax u.s. tax on american businesses and the highest in the world, we were putting our american companies at a huge disadvantage when they competed against the europeans, the mexicans, chinese, japanese, from the highest in the world -- host: the highest interest rate? guest: statutory right. ate? host: right, we had all of these loopholes and we lowered the right and we got rid of the loopholes and guess what? i want to make sure people understand this, under donald trump's tax cuts, the shares of

taxes paid by the rich dramatically increased and they share of taxes paid by the middle class and lower income people fell. that is a fact. this was a big tax cut for rich people, is a lie, this is important, we are today, we have been getting the most revenue for the united states government ever, ever, we do not have a tax problem. we have plenty of cash money, the problem is we are spending trillions and trillions of dollars too much money and we have to get control of the budget and i hope that on the pump will that. i know this, biden has no interest in cutting spending, he is proposing another trillion dollars more spending. what is so sinister about our economy and by two thirds of americans think the economy is heading in the wrong direction

is because we have this giant debt. we cannot continue, this is the titanic and -- host: speaking of the national debt, the biggest drivers tend to be the entitlement, some of the biggest drivers, like social security and medicare, what is the trump campaign's policy for how to address the entitlement programs and the debt and deficit related to that? guest: donald trump will not cut social security, that is not a problem. as i explained earlier, i think that social security benefits are too low given how much money that we paid into the system. people should understand the reason you have a deficit in social security is congress told to trillion dollars from the social security trust fund and spent it in other programs. both republicans and democrats did that. what health care, why do we not have more health care

transparency and what things cost when you go to a hospital or the doctor and you go for a medical service, you actually know what these things cost when -- what other industry when you go into a store and they do not tell you what the price tag is? more transparency in terms of what things cost would be a substantial benefit, he is bringing down the cost of health care and making sure that we still have the best of care in the world -- health care in the world. host: go ahead, barry. caller: the problem i have with what is being said is that first of all, covid caused a lot of the rises. donald trump did absolutely nothing to help. it takes time for those kinds of effects to affect the economy. it did. and it did. then joe biden comes in, he is

dealing with covid, which donald trump did nothing about. if you remember, the people -- host: is your question about what he thinks about the impact of covid on the inflation that we have been seeing? is that the question? caller: yes, that is a good way to put it. host: let us let him respond to that. guest: basically, covid hit in march of 2020, what happened was by the way, we did a big report on prosperity, i believe and i think the evidence is crystal clear on this, locking down the u.s. economy and shutting down our schools, that was one of the most catastrophic policies in american history, we never, can allow the government to shut down our schools and our businesses and our churches and

it did not work and more people died from covid lockdowns then died from covid. about 30,000 people's lives were saved but about 300,000 people died from lockdowns because of delayed health care, depression, suicide, because of things like alcoholism, drug abuse, things like that? lockdowns were a disaster and by the way, i love donald trump, they made a big mistake of marking down the economy. -- walking down the economy. when biden came into office, the economy was making a big recovery in the last six months of donald trump's presidency, was the first thing that joe biden did when he came into office? he spent another 2 trillion and another trillion, this is not complicated, if you are going to spend 6 trillion dollars and we spend that money on printing money, you will have inflation.

it was so obvious that that was going to happen so the inflation rates was 1.5% when trump left office at 18 months later, it was and 9% and it was because of the massive spending spree that did so much damage to the american economy. had to get control of government spending and we went to get inflation under control and inflation is kicking up again and the inflation rate over the last three months is back above 4%, that is terrible, we have to get inflation below 2%. host: south carolina on our line for the republicans. caller: i will be honest, i am super disappointed for c-span for having an actual person on -- host: we do not like ad hominem attacks. next caller. caller: good morning. in 2020 trump was talking about the platinum plan, i think there was a $500 billion infusion of

cash to how would you say build the economy? where are we with that right now? guest: i am not exactly sure what -- what did you call the plan again? host: platinum plan. guest: i'm not familiar with that. all i can say is that one of the things that we did in the donald trump administration as we did the enterprise to help try to bring capital and investment into depressed areas and inner cities and that is going to be a big priority. i talked to president trump many times about this and he wants to do everything he can to bring investment into area that has been neglected. i have to tell you this, under donald trump if you are a minority, hispanic or black, we have the lowest unemployment rate ever in the history of the country for black and hispanic americans. we have the lowest poverty rate

ever in the history of the united states under donald trump. we have the biggest gain in income in family income for black and hispanic's ever in the history of the country under donald trump and this idea that donald trump had been racist, look at his policies, minorities were the biggest beneficiaries of many of these policies. host: i was going to come up doing research, this seems to be related to a document that came out of the 2020 campaign, which was the platinum plan, his pillars for black americans including a promise that over four years there would be 3 million new jobs for the black community and 50,000 new black-owned businesses and increasing access to capital and black communities and a variety of other things of that regard. guest: we want to do that. host: that was a 2020 campaign. how has the administration made progress on those goals?

guest: that is what donald trump wants to do, he did not win the election of the -- host: go ahead. guest: we hope to put in place a program like that for 2024 because look, donald trump wants to help the people at the bottom of the economic ladder of people at the top are doing fine, the people who have been really hurt by biden's policies are not rich people, they are doing fine, the people who were hurt by and inflation, the middle class people do the shopping and at the lower income people, who cannot afford to pay 22% increase in groceries at 40% more for gas and 50% more for rental payments, they are getting crushed by the spine inflation numbers. host: next is ken in tampa florida. caller: when i listen to c-span

and i hear individuals like you come on and talk i think i am wondering who we are talking to, are you talking to people who are just uneducated or are you talking to black people who are giving up on american dreams? are you talking to the hispanics who are out working all day in the field? when you talk about donald trump and how great he is and this and that, especially now that you have said something about blacks and minorities, under donald trump, but you never answer how many of those jobs and that he created in the black community, yes donald trump is a racist, let us be real about it. host: who is your target audience as you are messaging the economy in this campaign? guest: that is a great question because who knows whether the polls are right and wrong, but what they are showing is in my

democratic friends will acknowledge this, that at least in terms of the polling, black americans, it is quite possible that if donald trump wins the election he could win with a record number of black voters because blacks have been there want to have been hurt the most by biden's policies. low income black americans are the ones who have to go to the grocery store and have to pay the higher taxes and what i'm saying is inflation is the worst tax of all because it hurts the lowest income people the most. it is regressive and if you want to help solve the problem of lower income families in the financial stress, hispanics and blacks are working hard and they are doing a lot of the great important jobs in this country and the country could not function without them, but if you are making $12 an hour but you are seeing prices go up you are financially strained. host: miriam is in texas and is

a democrat. caller: i hear that blacks have been hit the most. but yet, you are not giving us any details, you are not giving us solutions, higher minimum wage, a child tax credit, cuts for the poor, those of the things we want to hear but you are not saying that, you are telling us that you want to to come in and he will reinstate the donnell pump tax cuts and you know because you are a smart guy, you know those cuts were only for the rich. host: let us give him a chance to respond. what is the campaign's stance on raising the federal minimum wage? guest: wages went up faster under trump than any other president, we want a lot of jobs out there -- host: by the federal minimum

wage? guest: my own view is we shouldn't let the states decide their own policy on what their minimum wage is. here is something that is important. one of the most important issues for minorities especially black and hispanic families is school choice so that every single child in america can go to the best possible school whether it is a public school, a charter school, national line host: the other issue she mentioned was earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. what about that one? guest: the average family today if you have a middle income you saved about 1500 through $2000 a year on your taxes. when biden said he will repeal the donald pump tax cuts what he is saying ample to raise your taxes if you are in the middle class by 1500 through $2000 a year. if this school choice, the most important thing right now for

minorities is to make sure that their kids have access to a great school. donald trump is that every single child in america should be able to go wherever school date want to enter biden is saying i oppose that and you are -- even if you have a lousy failing schools, and baltimore and new york and chicago and milwaukee you have to send your kids to a failing school. how are minority kids going to be able to compete when they are adults and they are going to schools that do not even teach them how to read or write or do arithmetic? it is joe biden saying that he cares about minorities but will not let them go to the best schools? host: last caller, mike is in wyoming on outline for republicans. -- on our line for republicans. caller: thank you for all that you do. i wish you would explain to the viewers and listeners when joe biden leans into the microphone and whispers that he cut the deficit by 1.7 trillion, please explain to everybody the

difference between the national debt and the yearly deficit? thank you. guest: we have been talking about that for 30 or so minutes about the economy and we have not mentioned but joe biden has done to blow up our debt. this is something that our children and pregnant children will be paying off and the biden people feel like they can just borrow and borrow till kingdom come and i'm not displaying that on the democrats, republicans share the responsibility for this. -- just placing that on the democrats, republicans share the responsibility for this. they are more financially reckless in terms of, just in the first six months of this year alone, are supposed to be in a recovery and we have found another trillion dollars, it is a mindnumbing the insanity of these policies. i'm here to tell you that if we have four more years of this where they add another 6 trillion onto our debt i think

we will have the economy absolutely collapsing. we have to grow the economy and bring spending down and we are not going to deal with this by raising taxes. we have to get everyone, everyone knows we are spending too much in washington and not too little revenue. host: thank you for your time, that is stephen lawrence of the top 2024 campaign, and also the founder of the committee to unleash prosperity. we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you. we love c-span, you are the voice of reason in america. host: let us start first with the news about the debates. here is a story in politico, having spent months avoiding direct engagement on weight and where to debate, both donald trump and joe biden seem to agree on a time and a place in a matter of minutes on wednesday. setting up showdowns in june and september. the former president's campaign accepted an