>> coming up on "washington journal," your calls and comments live. then a look at the week ahead on capitol hill with the hill's mychael schnell, and a discussion on the war on poverty , indivar dutta-gupta, president and executive director of the center for law and social policy, and scott winship of the american enterprise institute. "washington journal" starts live now. ♪ host: good morning, and welcome to the "washington journal" on this monday, may 20. president biden yesterday traveling to two battleground

states, georgia and michigan, to reach out to black voters in those states. this morning, we want to hear from black voters only about your choice for campaign 20 24. if you live in the eastern central part of the country, dial in at (202) 748-8000. mountain pacific, (202) 748-8001. black voters only can also text this morning at (202) 748-8003. or you can post on facebook.com/ c-span and also on x. we will spend our first 30 minutes hearing from black voters only, and then we will open up to everybody else and also take your temperature on campaign 2024, your choice in november. that is our conversation in our first hour. let's begin with some

battleground polls from the new york times. in these six key states, shows the matchup between president biden and former president donald trump. in michigan, where the president was last evening, he trails 49% to 42%. he began the day yesterday in georgia at morehouse college with the commencement address, and he is also trailing the former president in that state, 39% to 49 percent. usa today referencing this new york times poll this morning, reporting that polling shows biden is vastly underperforming his 2020 performance among black voters, reliably democratic constituency as some drift to president trump. a new york times poll of six battleground states found biden had support from 60% of black

voters, while trump is backed by 20% of black voters. biden won black voters in the 2027 -- 2020 election. here is what president biden had to say yesterday evening at an naacp event in michigan. [video clip] pres. biden: i just came from atlanta where i delivered a commencement at morehouse college. there were 400 young black men who will do an extraordinary thing. i told them i saw them, i heard them, and the nation needs them. they are the future of this country. i am here tonight to say the nation also needs all of you, and i mean that sincerely. you matter. let's be clear, because of your vote, it is the only reason i am standing here as president of

the united states of america, period. that is not a joke. that is a fact. and historic kamala harris is vice president. you are the reason donald trump is the former president. and donald trump is going to be a loser again. host: president biden in michigan talking about the former president there. this morning, we want to hear from black voters only, your choice for campaign 2024. biden reaching out to black voters in the state of michigan, and georgia yesterday. papers noting that there is an enthusiasm problem, as well, for the candidates. here is the washington post, sheriff black americans saying they are certain to vote down from a 2020 poll -- the share of black americans saying they are certain to vote down. this is june of 2020 were 74% of

black voters said they were certain to vote, now in april of 2024, that dropped to 62%. from the washington post article, they note younger black americans are less certain to vote this year than in 2020. president biden reaching out to young voters at morehouse college yesterday in georgia with a commencement address. there's also this from the pew research, they found that the president against the former president in a virtual tie in the presidential race, but when they break it down by gender -- by race and ethnicity in a recent poll, they found that black voters are voting for president biden orlean to president biden by 77%, with 18% voting for the former president or leaning toward voting for the former president.

and they new york times says in 2020, 95% of black women and 87% of black men voted for mr. biden, according to the pew research center. but in april, only 55% of black voters told pew that they approved a president biden's job performance. a recent poll showed that 62% of black americans plan vote in 2024, down from 74% in 2020. the wall street journal headline this morning about president biden's speech at morehouse, noting what he had to say about gaza, an issue for young voters, especially black voters. here is the headline, at morehouse, biden renews call for cease-fire in gaza. here is what he had to say in his commencement address. [video clip] pres. biden: i want to say this very clearly, i support peaceful

protests. your voices should be heard. i promise you, i hear them. i am determined to make my administration look like america. more africans and highest places, including the court, than in american history, because i need the input. what is happening in gaza and israel is heartbreaking. hamas vicious attack on israel killing innocent lives and holding people hostage. i was there night is after. saw pictures of a mother and daughter in a rope with kerosene port on them, watching them die. men, women, and children killed or displaced. i desperate need of water, food, and medicine. a humanitarian crisis in gaza. that is why i have called for an immediate cease-fire.

an immediate cease-fire, stop the fighting. bring the hostages home. and i have been working on a deal as we speak, working around-the-clock, to get more aid into gaza and rebuild. i am also working around-the-clock for more than just one cease-fire, working to bring the region together, working to build a lasting, durable peace. you see what is going on in israel today. what after? what after hamas? what happens then? what happens in gaza? what rights to the palestinian people have? i am working to make sure we finally get a true -- a two-state solution, the only solution. for people to live in dignity. host: president biden making an appeal to morehouse. that is the headline in the new york times this morning about his commencement address.

they say, for a ceremony in which students are discouraged even from decorating their caps, the science of protests were respectful but noticeable. a small group of graduates turned to visit with their backs to mr. biden as he spoke, and several graduates wore a traditional scarf of the palestinians draped over the shoulders. black voters only this morning, your choice for campaign 20 24. john in brooklyn, good morning. caller: good morning. let me first say that c-span is my favorite news station because they take it direct from the people. and i wish c-span would do some statements on biden's infrastructure. nobody talks about it. cnn, msnbc, channel 2, always trump, trump, trump.

the trials, i am tired of hearing about trump. i want the substance that is in president biden's infrastructure deal. host: ok, let's talk about your choice for campaign 2024. caller: but i wanted to tell you this before i tell you my choice, and i was hoping that my talking out would tell you who i am voting for. if i can, i would like to say, yesterday, president biden signed a bill for $9 billion in new york city to build a tunnel between jersey and new york that helps our economy. nobody talks about it. i am voting for biden. i do not know where they take these post from, but i want to tell them blacks are not naive. i do not believe these polls. they never asked me. and i am asking all these tv channels, talk about the substance that is in president biden's infrastructure. host: got it, john.

eric is in maryland. your choice for campaign 2024? caller: definitely my choice will be biden. i want to explain why. i am a registered independent. i voted for donald trump years ago, then i realized how messed up he was. four years ago i voted for biden . actually, i am really encouraging my fellow americans to vote for biden for just one reason. vote for your interest. vote for your interest. host: and what does that mean? caller: it just means that when i look at the republican party, i do nothing think that a black man has any future. i do not see them giving any interest to the black people. president biden, just like john

said, he has signed a lot of bills, a lot of programs that really bring jobs to our community. but when you look at the republican party, just look at the u.s. senate, look at the u.s. house. how many black representatives do the republican party have compared to the democrat party? we have one black senator on the republican side, and he is on the right as possible, and if you go to the house of representatives, it is even less. but if you go to the democratic party, at least in the house, we have to come over to the left. before i let you go, people forget politics is about numbers. black, we are 13% of the u.s. population. so it means that even if every black people voted for biden, we will still need the latino vote

and the white vote to make it. so my dear democrats, please, my dear black man in america, fold where your interest is. that is with biden. host: from pew research, key facts about black eligible voters in 2024. the population in the u.s. is projected to reach 34.4 million in 2024, up 7% from 2020. black voters could play antiporn role in determining the outcome of key 2024 elections, including the u.s. president. tyrone and harlem, new york. we are talking to black voters only for the first 30 minutes. your turn. caller: thank you, greta. i appreciate your commentary. i am voting for joe biden, mainly because of health care. he don't want to destroy it. the other guy do. he don't want it.

he will say it is our right to be able to express our opinion with the first amendment, just like everyone else. like the other guy, he is not appreciating the fact that black people can talk out against him. and for so many reasons, he has been trying to stop us from being able to speak. in fact, joe biden has also helped us financially. i know he is not perfect. we do not think he is some messiah. we know he is a part-time employee, just like every president before him. we know he is going to come and he is going to go. we do not try to convince people that joe biden is not old. people try to convince us that the other guy won the election. that is unrealistic. in truth, we know that there is a clear, clear choice that we

make. if we choose the other guy, we're going the upper set direction. -- opposite direction. we choose joe biden, we're not going full steam ahead, but at least -- host: do you sense and enthusiasm problem among black voters in your community? caller: some of us have become complacent about how the election affects our lives, and we do not realize how much politics play in the path of our lives, and we have become ambivalent to what actually is going to transpire. we think nothing is going to really change. i am not speaking for all of black people, but some of us feel like nothing is really going to change if we vote. so many people do not vote and do not bother to participate in the path this country takes. and then when we make a wrong turn, we complain about it, but we do not want to involve ourselves in what happens. you know, i see people

definitely coming to political things. i went to the apollo with rachel maddow, and people were interested in what was going on. it gave me hope that we do pay attention to what is going on in the world and know it affects us. host: ok. tyrone their ion harlem. more from president biden yesterday at the speech in detroit before the naacp gathering. this is what he had to say about the former president and january 6. [video clip] pres. biden: i never imagined in 2024, there would be folks waiting to ban books and america. what in gods name is that about that -- what is that about? not only that, people trying to erase black history, literally. people do not understand, black history is american history. not a joke. together, we make history.

we do not erase history. but folks, president trump, it is clear that what he lost in 2020, and i mean this sincerely, something snapped in trump. he just cannot accept the loss, and he lost it. that is why january 6 would happen. trump tried to challenge the election and failed, starting an insurrection. and now he is running again. he is not only obsessed about losing 2020, he's truly unhinged. he called the insurrectionists who stormed capitol hill patriots. he said to his electorate, he wants every one of them pardoned. let me ask you this, what do you think he would have done on january 6 if black americans had stormed the capitol?

i am serious. what do you think? i could only imagine. host: president biden in detroit yesterday, the battleground state of michigan. in the evening time before that, he was in georgia, two key states to a second term for the president. this morning, we're talking to black voters only because the president is reaching out to that them a graphic yesterday. vincent, brooklyn. caller: yes, good morning. thank you for taking my call. as a descendant of the kidnapped black africans, those slaves, i can trace it back to the 1800's, i want to make this statement, the black people in america should stop embarrassing our ancestors by advocating for democrats or republicans.

neither one in history confirms had our best interests at heart, especially at a more than 70% rate of voting. that is ridiculous. the black folks were informed we would collectively vote our own prioritized community agenda, like every other ethnicity that has since. if only those in the black publisher would vote our own prioritized community agenda, every political party would come bearing gifts for the true elevation of the most loyal citizens america has ever had. the most loyal citizens america has ever had. one less thing, the democratic party of the 1950's and 1960's is not today's democratic marxist party. thank you for listening, and black folks, wake up.

you do not owe anybody anything. they are bringing in illegal aliens, your boy biden. host: will you vote in november? caller: yes, i am still going to vote. host: at this moment, who would you vote for? caller: let me tell you this because i do not have a lot of time, i will not be voting for the democratic marxist party. that is ridiculous. host: ok. patricia, chandler, arizona, your turn. caller: hi, how are you? i am concerned about the organized gang -- the president signed the 702 bill. we have over 400,000 people being gamestop by the cia, fbi. my dad was a world war ii vet to protect this country -- host: patricia, we're listening

to you. you have to mute the television or you will get confused. how do you plan to vote in november? caller: i am not going to vote democrat. i am a democrat. both these -- host: all right, patricia. a reminder, folks, you have got to mute your television. just listen and talk through your phone when you call in. a call in maryland, francois? caller: that is me. i will be voting for biden. and i'm asking everybody to look at this, consider the price of insulin, how much more it was before, and how much is it going to be? $35. just think about it. and i am calling all black voters who are undecided or who

are making the decision not to vote, please put yourself together and go and vote. go invoke for biden -- go and vote for biden. host: carl in thomasville, georgia. the president in your state yesterday. did you listen to the commencement address? caller: yes, it is howard. host: howard, good morning. thomasville, georgia? caller: yes. [indiscernible] host: howard voting for biden. the president was in minnesota for a republican dinner, and he was also at saturday's national rifle association's annual meeting where he discussed his future presidential debate with president biden. here is what he had to say.

[video clip] fmr. pres. trump: if this horrible, low iq individual, who is representing us, this horrible person who has done such a bad job, worst president, by far, if this horrible individual finishes the bait -- the debate, which i think he will, if he is standing, if he is dandy, he will say it was a brilliant performance. a brilliant performance, never seen anything like it, very much reminiscent of the days of fdr. fdr had a beautiful voice, great debater, very smart man. fdr, almost 16 years, he was four term. i don't know, are we going to be considered three term or two term, you tell me? are we three term or two term if we win? but think of it, they're going to say wonderful. he did the state of the union the other day. he was high as a kite. so i think we should call for

drug tests on the debate. we're going to call for drug tests. host: former president trump at the nra this weekend. headline from the wall street journal, candidates hope the debate that has been set at the end of june and in september provide a spark to this election. pulling shows that voters hold an unfavorable view of both candidates. democrats and republicans have been eager to shake up the stagnant race, and neither man this for has a clear cut edge. that is from the wall street journal. black voters only. anthony in orange county, california. hi. caller: good morning. how are you? hey, i am going with biden. i voted for trump and 2020. the main reason for my change is mainly the insurrection. all things aside, when i

actually started paying closer attention to politics, i looked at it and looked at what biden did, has done so far, as opposed to what trump did, and in my opinion, there is no comparison. trump can get on the biggest bullhorn and talk about i have done more than african-americans, done this, done that, biden surpassed that. i do not like all the lies coming out of the trump administration, and it is really disgusting for him to attack african-americans to the fact that, because he is being persecuted, we should feel some type of sympathy for him. i just think it is, overall, i think it is just a shame. host: where do you see the president vulnerable in this election? caller: talking about biden? host: yeah. caller: definitely foreign policy, it has kind of hurt him,

and the immigration thing. but at the same time, i do think people have been talking about the immigration thing for so long that when it gets close to election time, unless they do not pull out an immigrant killing a woman or something like that, i do not think it is going to have that impact. you know, i look at all the women in my life and think about women's rights and health care, how a man can kill -- tell a woman what to do with her body, i do not really care for that too much either. host: their views on the foreign policy front, the breaking news from cnn's website, they had an exclusive, the international criminal court is now seeking arrest warrants against a hamas leader and the prime minister of israel benjamin netanyahu for war crimes over the october 7 attack and the gaza war. in the washington journal recently, we sat down with an expert on international criminal court and talked about how the

issue of arrest warrants, investigations, and trials that they had at the hague. if you're interested in learning about how that whole process works, go to our website c-span.org, and you can find it there. the caller also mentioned the issue of immigration. i just want to point out, from punch bowl news, back to the border, in their morning newsletter, the senate is in today, house returns tomorrow, it says in the senate various committees will hear testimony, but the action will be on the senate floor were majority leader chuck schumer is expected to tea up another vote of the bipartisan border security deal that republicans killed earlier this year. let's just say up that this effort will fail, republican see this as a political exercise intended to boost vulnerable democratic incumbents, so they are not going to vote for it.

schumer openly acknowledged that not every democrat supports it either. that is happening this week in the senate. glenn in detroit. good morning to you. your choice for campaign 2024? caller: good morning, greta. i am tired of democrats and republicans. i call them leap your candidates. they only think about black people once every four years and their issues. joe biden makes some of the most prejudice commercials by only targeting black folks. how is the economy for black folks? should be saying, how is the economy for everyone? bernie sanders, he got pulverized in south carolina things to clybourn. bernie, he is a little older than those two, but he is sharper than both put together.

bottom line of it is, i want to see a third party. i want some candidates, and i want to see a debate with them. host: you want to see him on the debate stage? caller: if you cannot make the first one, i hope he can make the second. i think people need a choice other than these two. host: with the crated here -- criteria set out, it is the same for both networks, you have to be on the ballot in a certain number of states that show a pathway to 70. here is the wall street journal, rfk junior voters in arizona are in an election wildcard, the story this morning on rfk's campaign bid. let's go to rudy and douglas, georgia. caller: i absolutely support president biden. he served under president obama for eight years and selected kamala harris for his vice president. when he went into office, we

were coming behind a situation of almost one million americans dying from covid, and his opponent wasn't saying to inject bleach -- they were complaining there were no milk on the shelves, supply chain issues. now we have gas prices coming down. we have supply chain issues under control. but more importantly, the stock market is at 40,000 for the first time in american history. if you look on fox news, you would think we were in a depression. so we are in a situation here where if you use the same yardstick on biden's three years, four years, versus the former president, it is clear that the indicators are for biden. more importantly, i am a pastor. he is a man of character. we have got a former president

that is on trial saying they are lying on him, that he has said he will get on the stand and speak in his own defense. he should. he is not going to testify, i and my prediction, yet he says people are trying to railroad him. 100% for biden. host: about the trial, the former president set to pivot following -- nra speech says he is preparing for an outcome in that trial. the speech also touched on the challenging issue of abortion. it could be a pivotal week, prosecutors and defense attorneys in the new york russian -- hush money trial against him could make a decision as early as tuesday. vinny in louisville, kentucky. we are talking to black voters only here for the next minute. you are the last one. then we will open it up. caller: yes, ma'am.

i am definitely voting for joe biden. no way trump would get my vote. during the previous election in 2020, he blamed the cities of detroit and atlanta, blaming -- saying that black people were stealing the votes and all of these bad things are happening in these black cities, predominantly black cities. he said his votes keep going up, or his support keeps going up, after he took his mugshot, that black people relate to that or something, you know, we can relate to going to jail and taking mugshots. it is just insulting and rude and disrespectful, and there is no way he would ever get my vote. host: all right, that call from kentucky. now we're going to turn to all of you this morning and take her

temperature on campaign 2024 we're opening it up to all demographics. if you are a democrat, dial in at (202)48-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003, just include your first name, city, and state. or join us on facebook or x. your choice for campaign 2024. first, yesterday, senator j.d. vance, ohio senator, republican, was on the sunday shows, and this is what he had to say on what he is voting for president trump. [video clip] >> manhattan courtroom, in ohio alongside donald trump at a fundraiser, and you keep getting asked whether or not you are going to be vice president or not, and you said you have not

spoken to him about it. we're also looking at a pretty tight race in the senate. i wonder, do you think you're more helpful to him in the senate or the white house? >> i will let him make that decision, he knows how to best run his campaign. i am happy to be an advocate for the agenda in the u.s. senate, that is a good way for me to help the people of ohio, and i'm certainly interested in helping in other ways as -- if that is what matters. the contrast is so extraordinary between higher inflation at home and a war overseas, that is the biden record, and a trump record of peace at home and prosperity, that is an acquittal thing to run on. importantly, an incredible thing to deliver for our country. i want to help donald trump get over the finish line, that is why i have shown support in new york. it is all about getting him elected president. i do not care too much who vice president is because trump is going to govern. host: on cbs's face the nation,

j.d. vance talking about why he plans to vote for president trump. this morning, we are asking all of you to join us in a conversation about your choice for president this november. who will you be voting for and why? we want to hear from you. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003, just include your first name, city, and state. remember, you can also join us on facebook.com/c-span or on x with handle @cspanwj. we showed you a little bit earlier, president biden made two trips yesterday, reaching out to black voters in the state of georgia at morehouse college, and then travel to michigan later in the

day and spoke in detroit at an naacp event. want to show you a little bit, in case you missed it earlier, his address at morehouse, talking about the situation in gaza. [video clip] pres. biden: i want to say this very clearly, i support peaceful protests. your voices should be heard, and i promise you i have heard them. i am determined to make my administration look like america. i have more african-americans in high places, including on the court, than any in american history, because i need the input. what is happening in gaza and israel is heartbreaking. hamas' vicious attack on israel killing innocent lives and holding people hostage. i was there nine days after, some pictures of a mother and daughter tied up in a rope with kerosene poured on them,

watching them as they died. men, women, and children killed or displaced, and a desperate need of water, food, and medicine. it is a humanitarian crisis in gaza. that is why i have called for an immediate cease-fire, an immediate cease-fire. stop the fighting. bring the hostages home. i have been working on a deal as we speak, working around the clock, to get more aid into gaza, rebuild, also working for more than just one cease-fire, working to bring the region together, working to build a lasting, durable peace. the question is, as you see what is going on in israel today, what after? what after hamas? what happens then? what happens in gaza? what rights to the palestinian people have? i am working to make sure we finally get a two-state solution, the only solution.

so those people can live in peace and dignity. host: president biden yesterday talking about his strategy and policy toward the israel-hamas war. we have opened up the lines to everyone to ask about your choice in campaign 2024. eve, grand rapids, michigan, democratic caller. caller: good morning, greta. first of all, i would like to say that if you're voting for someone and you are looking at how the stage is set for the people that is running for president, there is only one person you can be voting for, and that is president biden, because of the fact that the other person that is running is a criminal. so people say people are never called to poll, i was polled, so

me and my gen z will be voting for biden because that is the only choice we got. if you want to call it evil, if you want to vote for the person on the left, if you say they are people, it would be biden, because trump is just undescribable. this man has done everything under the sun that a criminal would do, and these people are still voting for him. i do not understand the people nowadays, at least the people on the others. host: eve, what do you make of these polls? new york times with a headline, if the election was held today, how would you vote? five key states, wisconsin, president biden leads by just 2%. in pennsylvania, 44% to 47%, within the margin of error. in arizona, 40 -- former

president leading 49% to 42%, as well as in georgia. georgia,, and nevada. eve? caller: you know, this is what i am thinking, these people are acting kind of like a soundbite. when member that once you are speaking, when you are speaking, the soundbites have to catch up with the person that are speaking. so they are putting the economy back in a place where it was in a really bad place, but they do not see yet what is happening, all the things that the president is doing for everybody. and i want to say this also, if the president is not in and the republican party keep bringing down the programs that obama put in place, the senior citizens and the people, not only the senior citizens, the people right now in the middle of

working, they will see a terrible, terrible economy with trump. because you cannot just keep everything here at home. you have to also deal with the people are brought. host: ok. and polls are a snapshot in time and obviously are fluid. curtis in maryland, independent. caller: yes, ma'am, good morning. i am going to piggyback off of one of your previous callers who said he wishes there was some one else to vote for. i know that kennedy is out there. i have not heard a lot or read a lot into that. like the one guy was saying, i would love to see him in the debates on stage, but as far as for trump or biden, i really do not care to vote for reader -- for either one of them gentlemen. host: so what will you do then? caller: i am going to be honest

with you, like your previous caller just said, i will go for, as you say, the less of the two evils, which would be biden. host: but you will vote? caller: i definitely will vote. host: michael and del reach --delray beach, florida, republican. caller: my choice is, obviously, donald trump. peace around the world, prosperity at home, lower taxes. i guess none of that is good enough for some people. because as you heard in your earlier segment, for some people, playing the victim card is a lot easier than being responsible for your life. and a lot of people do not want to have to take responsibility for themselves because, with that comes accountability. and i know this, it is funny,

the united states has had three racist presidents in the last 100 years. woodrow wilson, lyndon baines johnson, and now joe biden, who bragged about being friends with klansmen. yet, black voters overwhelmingly still go out for biden, almost laughable. the last thing is a question, the new york post last week ran articles that the head of the nih, the national institute of health, admitted that american taxpayer dollars funded the wuhan china virus lab in china. when is c-span going to have people on to examine that? because, again, all these people who call in on the democrats line and say taxes aren't high enough, the government needs to

take in more money, this is what your money is paying for. it paid for virus in china. host: understood. we will take the suggestion. in other news this morning, you may have heard about the helicopter crash in iran yesterday. the development today is that the iranian president and foreign minister were found dead at the site. the headline is, hardliner who crushed dissent died at 63. this is on many of the front pages this morning. a call from new york, democratic caller, your choice for campaign 2024. caller: my choice would be president biden, of the two. actually, for the other person, i would not consider him at all because his father would not let

blacks live in apartments in new york city, and it was stated that he was a klansmen. andy former president -- and no one should not vote for a criminal. he wants to release people who stormed the capitol. our country will be a communist country, and if you say anything, you will be locked up or killed. he will never leave office if he returns. and you have to vote. when trump was in, he had the house and the senate, and that is why he got everything passed. when the other president was in before him, he did not have the senate or the congress, and they will not let him pass anything. but then he bragged about he did this, the former president, and he did that, he did that with the help of the senate and the congress. so i will be voting for president biden. he is the only one to vote for, because the other man is for

self interests. he is not concerned -- he would turn his back on anyone, republican or democrat, if they say anything against him. and he is a child i and a grown man's body. host: all right, caller. let's move onto emily in massachusetts, independent. caller: oh, hi. i have looked at both, and i have listened to things they have been saying. and i could not believe when i heard mr. trump say that hannibal lector was a wonderful man. hannibal lector was a character in a movie, and he was a serial killer who ate his victims. so where do you go from there? host: hara in staten island,

republican. caller: h, good mornini -- hi, good morning, c-span. thank you for bringing these shows to us. i have been listening to you guys and listening to everything. right now, people need to wake up. i do not understand people who are in their 60's or 70's who have been just going with their feelings. people need to wake up because we have only two parties in this country right now, and the third is string to get in but i do not think mr. kennedy is going to be a part of -- he is not going to win as a precedent. there are only two people here. we have to look at five years ago, how we were. we had jobs, headpiece -- had

peace around the world, and people were happy and looking forward to things. but right now, as biden had got into office, he came into office with his team and they have been degrading this nation, degrading even to the whole world. right now, we do not know where we want to go even. people cannot go out there there are so many protests. from 2020, people. host: ok. marvin, democrat caller in michigan, you are next. your choice? caller: president biden. he is the only guy we can vote for. i listen to that guy trump, he was calling people like little bitty crybabies, having a pity

party, saying i'm going to have a one-day paper valid vote -- paper ballot vote. i am just at a loss for words. my son got a two-year-old and a one-year-old. people saying i'm not voting for him, and i say just think of your two sons. if you want to help them have a future, not only you are not going to heaven, they are not going to have a path. i have never seen a person with so much hatred and dividing people against us. it has to stop. that man is worser then that hamas. host: ok. here is gregory wilmington in connecticut, biden talks of war with russia, complicit of deruction, andand tiktok for telling the truth, i am voting for joel stein for president.

maurice in illinois, independent. hi. caller: good morning. what biden is doing, he said we had some sacrifice when he went to ukraine to start that war -- not start the war, but helped. he said a man is going to sacrifice. i am through sacrificing for biden's decisions, horrible decisions. the afghan withdrawal, debacle. the border has been a mess. he does not know what to do with israel and palestine. the money -- i cannot afford biden's economy. i know there are a lot of liberals, progressives, it don't affect them because they have the finances. poor blacks and whites, they cannot afford it. five dollars for gas. six dollars for a box of cereal.

four dollars for oatmeal. you cannot keep going like this. his decisions, a horrible decision-maker. host: who are you voting for? caller: i got to go with trump or the brother to get some momentum going, mr. cornell wilson --i believe that is his name? host: cornell west is running. caller: unless he gets momentum. black people are hypocrites. they should go with cornell west. i do not see how they can let biden in after he did that crimes bill that destroyed many millions of black families. him and hillary, they get a kick out of that statement. she made that statement when they came up with that crime bill, we going to make them heal.

i don't know what to say to that one. he is a disaster. host: if you and others are interested in hearing about cornell west's bid, we have covered some events with him. you can find it on our website, c-span.org. qnn -- ann in tennessee, republican. caller: the only one to vote for his president trump. we have been living in misery and, people hating each other. most of them calling in here, they don't say much about biden. they all just hate trump, and it is mostly black people. maybe they heard what biden said, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. you need to know his history, he was against immigration, against it. now he has covered up his past history. host: why are you voting for president in november? caller: because -- why are you voting for president trump in

november? caller: because he knew how to run america. joe biden is not following our constitution, not following the supreme court. he ignores everybody and takes the money to buy votes. with over $100 billion, he is buying votes, using people's money to pay off the loans -- kids that have gone to college are not paying their loans off. he had no right to do that. it was against our constitution. host: diane is a democrat in key west, florida. caller: good morning, and thank you for letting me share. i want to make the point of concern that i have. i love c-span. i listened to the show before the "washington journal" this morning, and all the pundits were explaining how the black vote is starting to go towards trump, nearing 20%, which would be historical. i find that very hard to believe. then i listen to the "washington

journal" this morning, we all heard the majority of black people who called in, they're going to vote for biden. my big concern is this, at the trial, it came out from the inquirer publisher -- enquirer publisher, he told everybody that trump's people were protecting his reputation and would not print any negative stories about -- as a matter-of-fact, about trump, as a matter of fact, he would create stories against his enemies, create stories. he was manipulating the media. i am worried that these polls, which today overwhelmingly favor trump, i wonder if trump's people are manipulating these polls. my concern is when it is election time and biden wins, the maga people are going to use this as an excuse again. they are going to say that the

election was stolen because trump was way over in the polls, he had this election. that is my real big concern. and i wish that the united states would have paper ballots so that there could be no argument about who won the election, to ensure everyone it is fair, open, and transparent. i am definitely going to vote for biden because of the supreme court nomination, we cannot have another republican in office. and biden has done tremendous things for the people. social security, we got an increase. he brings people together, the student loans, working down protecting the border. it is the republicans who did not vote for the border patrol. so you have to look at the record. look at what biden does. and i wish the democrats would boast about the good things biden has done for this country. it is not known all the good things he has done. host: cindy in connecticut, republican. caller: good morning.

i am 62 years old, and i have seen a lot and feel like we were healing as a country, but trump is not part of the uniparty. i am going to say both parties are against this country. please wake up, he was the cog in the new world order scheme. that aside, i'm going to appeal to people, just like msnbc, i do not know if people are aware, but president trump was one of the major funders of jesse jackson's campaign when he ran for president. and who forced a vaccine on you, trump or biden? did many of my fellow americans lose their jobs because of president trump? no, they lost their jobs because a dictator west demanding you have a vaccine -- because you

had a dictator that was demanding a vaccine. i and 2017, he funded historically black colleges forever, not that they had to come back every year and ask for funding. he did this in 20, not a campaign year. biden suddenly is tanking in the polls a little bit with the black community, because, guess what, the money we told them they did not have for the community centers, suddenly they all have this money for the immigrants, because you guys are being replaced. your vote is being replaced. please wake up, america. host: all right. bruce in colorado springs, independent. who are you voting for in november? caller: i am going to be voting for president biden. personally, myself, some of these things i have been hearing about blacks, because i'm black

myself, and all of knows about how like people are going to vote in these black callers who are suddenly into being pro-palestinian, and i know that is a different subject, but if you ask a lot of these black people about what is going on history wise, a lot of them are not going to know. all of the setting, we pro-palestinian and stuff like that. people say no wars under trump, but i am like they're still wars in africa that was going on under trump, all of this going down in haiti. black people aren't talking about we need to help them. i am doing ok and doing well under the biden administration. you got to clip coupons and work a little bit harder. yeah, guess in 1981 was 65 cents a gallon, and all of the sudden it went up to five dollars under biden.

but some of these people that want to call up, i do not know if they are caucasian, wanting to tell us how we should vote and you should support trump. and then just trying to say that he took a mugshot and that associates all of us for being criminals. then talking about biden being a racist. yes, he did make comments in the past and stuff like that that is ridiculous. host: bobby is in indiana, democratic caller. caller: yes, i am democrat. host: who are you voting for? caller: i am voting for biden, because trump is a fool. anything he talk about, it is about him, all about trump. when he came to court, how he manipulate his people, all the

people, the governors, people trying to be in the stans to speak out for him, stuff he could not speak out about. he manipulates people. i do not understand. it is crazy to me. host: we will leave it there for now. up next after this short break, we will take a look at what is happening in congress this week with mychael schnell, congressional reporter for the hill. later, with the upcoming 60th anniversary of president lyndon johnson's great society speech, we will take a closer look at whether the federal programs launched during his presidency have helped or hurt the war on poverty in this country. that conversation coming up later on the "washington journal." stay with us. ♪

>> this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in session. the house will take up legislation clarifying the securities and exchange commission and the commodity futures trading commission ability to regulate digital assets in cryptocurrencies. the senate will take a procedural revote about bipartisan border security and immigration bill that was ocd earlier this year. secretary of state antony inn will testify before two congressional committees to discuss his department's proposed 2025 buetn the state of american democracy and global instability. that's tuesday before the senate foreign relations committee and theou foreign affairs coittee wednesday. northwestern university president and ucla chancellor and rutgers university president will give an account for the anti-semitic protest on their campuses before the house education anworkforce committee. beginning friday, li coverag of the three libertarian party convention. the friday speakers include robert f. kennedy, jr. and

saturdays speakers include former president donald trump. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now or head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand any time . c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> the c-span bookshelf podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcast that feature nonfiction books in one place so you can discover new authors and ideas. each week, we make it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture from our signature programs about books, afterwords, but news plus and q& a listen. tothe podcast feed today and you can find it and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now mobile

video app or wherever you get your podcastand on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates, and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. this time table makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> c-spanshop.org is our online store. browse through our latest collection of c-span products. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase

helps support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning's michael snell with the pill newspaper. let's begin with we can congress and we will start with the senate. the headline from the hill.com -- remind viewers with the bill is and what is the plan. guest: good morning. this is the bipartisan border deal that the senate negotiators struck back in february. it would amend some asylum laws, it would end the so-called program called catch and release and would give the president authority to shut down the border if a certain number of individuals cross the border. this was the deal that has

finally come together after months of painstaking negotiation that initially convened at the republicans had demanded than any aid for ukraine would go along border security provisions of that senate group convened and they came to an agreement and unveiled this deal which was essentially a stunning matter. border security and immigration is something that has bedeviled lawmakers for years. after became clear this bipartisan border deal would not make it over the finish line of republicans casting doubt on the significance of the legislation and the final straw with president trump coming out and urging republicans to vote against it. senate republicans have blocked this legislation from moving forward and congress went ahead with considering foreign aid without border security. now chuck schumer is trying to come back to this and t up another vote on it and he recognized last night that this had a slim chance of passing.

this is a political move as we close in on the november election. the border issue continues to be a top issue. this is the way for democrats to flip the switch on republicans to do some messaging on the border. it gives an average energy to cast a vote on the record in support of cracking down the situation at the southern border. we are finally going to see this vote this week. the political ramifications, democrats are hoping could be significant. host: will republicans vote for it? guest: it is very unlikely that will happen. the republican negotiator james lankford was the conservative emissary who worked day and night tirelessly for months to come to a consensus. he cast out the strategy last

week in an interview saying this is not a serious effort and he had not received any outreach from democrats to try and move the ball forward in terms of border security. he essentially said this is a political gambit as we close in on the november election. there were a few others back in february, the likes of mitt romney and some other more centrist individuals like that. we could see them come on board but there is no indication now. but he don't have james lankford, i think that's a good tell that there will not be significant if any republican support this time around. host: what major pieces of legislation, if any, does congress need to past before november? guest: in the short term, very few. just one thing as of now is government funding in september.

lawmakers are still bearing down that september 30 deadline to fund the government for fiscal year 2025. that is the last he's of legislation on the calendar. congress has already passed the foreign aid bill and they finished up the reauthorization and finished the fy 2024 preparation so they are in a glide path to september where we will likely see these messaging bills on the floor in both chambers. the expectation is that in september, congress will pass a short-term continuing resolution to keep the government funding until after the november election and that is when the fight will really take place for appropriations and government funding for the next fiscal year. host: congress sets the stage for side deals spending fight with white house is your headline. guest: this all comes as we discussed the government funding and the appropriations process. lawmakers in the house or getting started on this effort.

ideally, leaders in the house have said they want to get all the appropriations bills over the finish line in the lower chamber before folks leave for recess. that is all but certain to not be reached. the house has moved slowly and that's up high in the sky go but it shows the leaders and republicans and democrats are trying to hit the ground running now to go avoid what we saw in the previous fiscal year. i believe -- i believed was for short-term continuations and a number of shut down cliffs where we had the risk of a shut down and they finally finish up the appropriations process in march. that was supposed to be done in september. lawmakers have no aptitude -- appetite for up in the process and i want to get things done early. it will probably not be successful because that's the nature of congress but they are giving it their best attempt now. host: i want to invite our viewers to join in this

conversation and get their reaction to what they are hearing from the reporting about congress in the weeks leading up to the november election. democrats dial in this morning at (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, an independents (202) 748-8002. you can text us as well include your first name, city and state at (202) 748-8003 or go to facebook.com/c-span you can post on x @c-span wj. on the messaging bills, what sort of topics will both the house and the senate be bringing up in these messaging bills and what is the purpose? what's the strategy? guest: what we've seen a lot of recently is having to do with immigration goes back to the reason why schumer is teeing up about on that bipartisan border security deal. immigration has continued to top

pose as the issue top of mind to voters in the lead up to november. voters are concerned about the border, immigration so lawmakers are trying to take advantage of that and try to capitalize on those views and go full-court press on messaging for the border. we've seen a number of republicans have brought up resolutions to denounce the biden administration's efforts on the border so expect to see more of that. another thing we've seen in the house is the topic of anti-semitism and the pro-palestinian protest that have taken place on campuses across the country. the israel-hamas war has been a difficult topic for democrats. their caucuses barely fractured with pro israel democrats want to defend israel's right to defend itself against pro-palestinian progressives who are concerned about the mounting humanitarian deaths in gaza. we seen these dynamics play out

in the public eye a number of times as the house is voted on various pieces of anti-semitism resolutions. expect to see more of that because it sort of a twofold benefit for republicans. it gives them an opportunity to show support for israel which they consider to be an important part of their platform but it also helps highlight the divisions. republicans are always looking to somehow refute the idea that they are not a united party. democrats want to fracture republicans in a way republicans don't want to. it allows republicans to argue and say that democrats are the party that does not defend israel. it's been an effective messaging strategy for them in recent months so expect to see more of that. democrats will go with the flow because as you know, the majority party in the house sets the terms -- sets the floor

schedule that's obviously republicans. democrats will have to roll with the punches and decide how to act on legislation as it comes to the floor. the senate has a different situation because chuck schumer is the leader there. we are already sink messaging legislation again on the topic of the border because it continues to be the dominating issue in the 2024 cycle. we are seeing schumer move ahead with the bipartisan border deal. each chamber is trying to pick up wins and give their members and of ammo to go home to their district and campaign and the reason why they think they deserve a few more years in washington. host: on the house side, what about efforts to impeach the president? guest: that has sort of fizzled out. we have seen a number of times republicans struggling to connect the dots on this scheme that they have accuse the president of engaging in whether it be bribery's, influence peddling or what have you. there's been multipronged

impeachment inquiry we've seen over the past few months. they have not found that smoking gun to prove the president is guilty of high crimes or misdemeanors. one of the big events they had hyped up was hunter biden testifying before the senate investigative panel. that landed with a thud and them not finding the smoking gun. we sort of seen lawmakers not fuss too much about the impeachment inquiry because is fizzling out. one thing we have seen making center stage is the effort to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. some folks think this may be an offramp for republicans leading the impeachment inquiry and saying we held him in contempt to shift the spotlight off of impeachment and onto garland to give some back story on that. lastly, the house judiciary committee in the house oversight committee advanced a resolution

along party lines to hold merit garland in contempt of congress. the issue that republicans have with garland's that they have requested the audio recording of president biden's interview with special counsel robert hurt who was looking into biden's mishandling of classified documents. can that final report come he says he would not charge the president with any crimes for his handling of less of i documents that there was a little aside about the president's mental acuity, saying he was acting -- i'm paraphrasing, but in old them a good-natured old man and that's why this -- why they decided not to charge him. republicans of as for the recording of the interview which the justice department has not given up. the justice department has provided a transcript of the interviews between garland and herr but republicans are still seeking the audio recording.

now republicans are trying to hold him in contempt and it remains unclear when they will vote on holding garland in content and remains unclear if it will pass because republicans have such a small majority. it really has no room for error. the really has been a less focus on impeachment and now holding garland in contempt. host: we will go to bill in florida, republican. caller: i wish that lady would be quite a few minutes. schumer let them all off the hook. from now on, it's not even a crime to lie to congress because it's schumer. that lady knows it as well as speaking half the truth about the republicans. host: what are you referring to? caller: what you mean? host: about schumer.

caller: he introduced a bill last week that from now on, it's not a crime to lie to congress. no matter what biden does or his son does or whatever in front of congress, there is nothing they can do about it. host: are you familiar with this? guest: i'm not entirely sure what he's talking about in terms of lying to congress. it is a crime. we've seen several witnesses before congressional committees be rebuked for lying to congress so i'm not sure of what he's referring to there. host: vincent, ohio, democratic caller. caller: yes, michelle -- ms. snell. do you know what's going on with the conductivity for i.t.? i got an email from both j.d. vance and sherrod brown back in

april saying they were still working on it and then i called one of the offices and they said yes they were. i know my company that i go through has said they've given me the deadline of the 22nd of this month. have you heard anything about it? guest: there has been some chatter i believe is the american conductivity project or program. it provides internet access to internet in low income areas. there was chatter about that program and refunding that program potentially catching a ride in one of those efforts that came across the finish line recent weeks whether it was faa reauthorization or the four -- or the foreign age back to -- or the foreign aid package. to my knowledge, it did not happen. i'm not sure what the current

status of that program is but there was some conversation on capitol hill. there have been various stakeholders and lawmakers who have been advocating for a refunding of that program. stay tuned because there are folks on the hill aware of it. i'm not clear right now what the status of those refunding efforts are. host: atlantic city, new jersey, independent. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i love you on the morning show and i want you all the time and i think you're great. i'm really bad at technology and trying to send emails for suggestions to the white house and so forth. i'm sending a message through you and i wanted to see what you thought of it. the press has to be careful this election year not to elect donald trump like they didn't 2016. he's not a normal candidate they have to be careful. i had an idea and i want to see what you thought of it.

the public service commercials are great with especially women with abortion telling their experiences. more of that is fantastic but here's my idea and wanted to see what you thought of it. bring back the fireside chats with president biden. maybe twice a month with president biden, one cabinet official, to press people and to regular citizens and just returned to civility. the press conferences are so crazy for me as a citizen with people yelling at each other basically and insulting each other. return to civility with the fireside chats because i love president biden and people should love him as well because -- this would be a real fairway to show the public real information with all sides in a civil way. i wanted to see what you thought of that. guest: that's perhaps why did the biden campaign may want to

embrace as we close in on november. the president has been -- i wouldn't say more media but expand different types of media he's doing. he did an interview recently with cnn but he also raise some eyebrows and not in a bad way when he set for an interview with howard stern for about an hour. i believe that conversation lasted which slowed things down have an elongated chat about various things whether p policy or personal or whether it be politics. that was pretty well received among some folks. maybe slowing it down and having that conversation weatherby one-on-one or one that's catered to the public and more relaxed setting. that could potentially be something the biden campaign embraces as we get close to the november election. host: this week in congress, lawmakers will also hear from the secretary of state. can you talk about his testimony? guest: antony blinken is said to

be on capitol hill this week to talk about the funding for the state department for fy 2025. it offers lawmakers an opportunity to directly talk to question and challenge secretary of state antony blinken. he's been at central figure of the biden administration as we have different conflicts developing all over the world whether it be ukraine's war against russia or the israel-hamas war in the middle east. some folks have been critical but tickly when it comes to israel-hamas war of how president biden has handled his relationship with the israeli prime minister. and how he's handled the dynamics with the mounting humanitarian actions in the gaza strip. whether it's about state department funding, expect there to be some sidetrack and other missives about those complex that continue to unfold across the globe.

host: the test secretary of state will testify tuesday we'll have coverage on c-span and you can watch and are free mobile app, c-span our online c-span.org c-span.org at. lawrence in new york, independent. caller: yeah, this is lawrence. i want to say chuck schumer is one of the best people in congress right now. most of them really act professional. as far as the house, i think they are very immature and i really think fox news is state news on demand and you guys do a great job, thank you. host: let's talk about what's happening in the house and efforts by marjorie taylor greene and thomas massie to oust speaker mike johnson. could that come up again before november? guest: it could. something about marjorie taylor greene is she needs to keep her powder dried not taking any

opportunities off the table but being very vague about what her plans are. i believe it was about two weeks ago that congresswoman greene finally forced a vote on her resolution to oust speaker mike johnson from the top job. it very quickly failed in stunning fashion and she called just was called to the floor for about an leadership held a vote to table the resolution minutes after and that passed overwhelmingly. afterwards, congresswoman greene said she is not ruling out bringing it up again in the near future but again, she is not forecasting any plans at this point. it was a pretty embarrassing blow for congresswoman greene. she had been threatening this vote to vacate and there were weight more individual and the congress who were in favor of ousting johnson than had come

out publicly which was just three at the time when he forced the vote. congresswoman greene and congressman thomas massie and congressman paul gosar ended up being republicans voting against tabling the motion to vacate resolution. some of the test those folks have said it's because they have a rule of voting against procedural votes. and wanted an opportunity to vote on the actual resolution because it was privileged and they would vote against it. it was a pretty embarrassing developed for congressman for grain and she tried to spin it by saying republicans are on the record. you can see who is part of the unity party but i don't think she will run and try to offer another opportunity for ousting johnson anytime soon and that's the indication now. it did not go the way she had intended. also because there is not any must pass pieces of legislation

coming up soon. that would be a catalyst for her having to spark this resolution before it was the government funding process and then it was fisa and then testing ukraine aid which are hot button issues that divide republicans bitterly. we don't add that until september but we had to do with government funding and the expectation is it will be a glide path until then. the so is a caveat when you talk about congresswoman greene. she did not forecaster plans publicly and leaves are waiting and could surprise you how she handles things. it could come but the expectation is not anytime soon. host: returning to the issue of emigration and the bipartisan order view, this is the vw from new york. i guess not to bring up this

senate bipartisan bordered deal, what is the evidence? guest: trump said publicly, we saw a number of social post from his account telling republicans to vote against this bipartisan bordered deal. we heard some republican lawmakers themselves say they were going to oppose it when it came to the floor because they didn't want to hand president biden a w so closei to the election. were talking about the border andn that have bedeviled lawmakers for decades. they struggled to come up with comprehensive immigration reform and policy to respond to the situation at the southern border. president biden signing this bill would be a massive bipartisan feet that he would no doubt use on the campaign trail to argue he is trying to fix the problem that is top of mind for most voters. it's believed that trump would not want to hand biden that when an republican senator said they did not want to give biden that victory.

former president trump was very publicly urging members to vote against this. whether they were private conversations between him and johnson is not clear. i don't know if it was necessary because he was publicly urging lawmakers to vote against it. his feelings were very well-known and documented. host: let's go to joe in massachusetts, democratic caller. caller: good morning. that's a great segue into my question. two questions -- it seems that the border bill is one of the big campaign policy issues coming up. what do democrats need to do to please the republicans to get a bill passed in congress to resolve the border? the second question is i heard one previous guest sate 5000 people per day seems to be a big sticking point for republicans

about not wanting to pass the bill nighy thing 5000 still way too much. in the 5000 was included people that come over the border legally like for work back-and-forth so it's everybody who came over the border, not a surly new immigrants. can your guest respond to that question? guest: in terms of your first question of how to get the comprehensive border security legislation over the finish line, it was a bipartisan effort and i think a lot of lawmakers said if this bipartisan bordered deal is not getting lawmakers on both sides the aisle to do something about a politically charged matter, it's unlikely anything will. a number of individual said this was the most conservative borders gerty legislation that had been crafted in decades. it had an endorsement from a wide variety of direct stakeholders and outside groups. the feeling was that if this

couldn't do it, nothing would be able to. it's one reason why policy is in the way. it's an election year and the border is the top policy issued to voters and there are challenges and difficulties but the core legislation was hailed by a number of different stakeholders. if not this, there'll unlikely be anything before election day in terms of the 5000 individual figure, i will have to go back to the specifics and see if they were individuals who came over illegally or just individuals who came over the border in general. the legislation was first rolled out in february and there is a lot of specific details there. i don't -- i want to give an exact answer after i checked the specifics. host: let's talk about the new york trial, the hush money trial of former president trump who's up there today looks like this could be the last week. we've seen members of congress going up to witness the trial and talk to reporters outside.

what is the strategy? guest: we have seen a number of republican lawmakers, both house and senate members marched up to new york to empathize with the former president at the manhattan court present -- court probe. they say it's rate against the former president as the department of justice is weaponizing and they say it's a shoddy case. this is a sort of strategy that republicans have seen and wanted to do including speaker mike johnson who is the highest ranking republican to go up to manhattan tuesday. it has a couple of different elements to it. it's an opportunity for republicans to tie themselves to the former president who is right now the leader of the party. some of these republicans clearly see it will be beneficial to hitch their wagon to the former president so they are trying to curry favor with them.

another element that it's been beneficial for the former president. he's under a strict gag order. he has violated in on a number of occasions and the judge in the case has warned that if he violates it again, there's a possibility he could face jail time. the former president is unable to talk about the witnesses. he cannot disparage the witnesses in public or in social media. we have seen these republican lawmakers serve as surrogates for the former president and slam those witnesses in ways the former president cannot. for example, speaker mike johnson when after michael: when he was in manhattan last week. that something the former president trumpism unable to do. it gives them a voice to breakthroughs gag order. everyone knows the former president likes public support. he is a man who made his money and came up the ranks through reality television and he knows how to work a camera. he knows having more support in

front of the cameras is important and these republicans know this is a way to get on his good side. we will have to wait and see if it will be this week. both chambers of congress are in session so they will have to work around the floor schedule to get up there. we saw a number of lawmakers up there last week. possible we will see more this week. host: thank you for all the details this morning previewing congress this week. you can follow h reporting if you go to the hill.com. a professional reporter with the hill, thank you is always. guest: thank you. host: when we come back, the 60th anniversary of president lyndon johnson's great society speech. later this week, we will look at whether the federal programs lost during his presidency have helped or hurt the war on poverty in this country. that conversation with the

center for law and public policy and the american enterprise institute. we will have that conversation right after this break. ♪ >> >> c-span now is a mobile app showing you what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with floor proceedings and hearings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span's tv networks and c-span radio, plus a variety of

compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. download it for free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government. we take it to where the policies are debated and decided with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting powered by cable. ♪ >> to be up-to-date in the latest in publishing with book tv podcast about books with current nonfiction book releases plus bestseller list as well as

industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find about books on c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> c-spanshop.org is our online store. browse through our latest collection of c-span products. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. ♪ >> get information for members of government in the palm of your hands when you order your copy of c-span's 2024 congressional directory with bio and contact information for every house and senate member of the 118th congress. important information on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. the congressional directory

costs $32.95 plus shipping and handling and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. scan the code on the right or go to c-spanshop.org to preorder your copy today for delivery this spring. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back and we will spend the next hour talking about the 60th anniversary of lbj's war on poverty. joining us for that conversation this morning is the president and executive director at the center for law and social policy and the social mobility director of the center of opportunity at the american enterprise institute, thank you both for being here. i want to begin with when this came about for lyndon johnson during his presidency. it was his january, 1964 state

of the union address when he first declared this war on poverty in america. i want to show that for our viewers and come back and that will launch the conversation this morning about that. [video clip] >> very often, the lack of jobs and money is not the cause of poverty but the symptom. the cause may light deeper in our failure to give our fellow citizens a fair chance to develop their own capacities. a lack of education and training and a lack of medical care and housing and a lack of decent communities in which to live and bring up their children area whatever the cause, our joint federal and local efforts must pursue poverty, pursue it wherever it exists from city slums in small towns,

sharecropper shacks or in migrant worker k -- camps. on indian reservations, among whites as well as knee grows. among the young as well as the aged, in the boom towns and the depressed areas. our aim is not only to relieve the symptom of poverty but to cure it and above all [applause] [applause] to prevent it. host: lyndon in 1964. what led to this moment and why is it important? guest: thanks for having me on. lyndon johnson was following in the footsteps of others, robert kennedy, john kennedy, when you think about that level of national political leadership. lyndon johnson knew some of this

personally from his own experiences in texas. he knew that the country was being driven apart multiple ways , some of that was related to racial segregation and more, related to the incredible disparities but also economically. it was a real risk that some of the economic progress that had been made since the end of world war ii might not be sustained at least not equally sustained. this moment is so important because here you have an unusual moment where he president proposes something bold with the wherewithal and willpower and passion, the belief that this is something, even if we didn't have all the answers that we could take on as a country and that it would be good for all of us. host: what do you make of this moment in time and what is happening in america at this time? guest: in 1964, it was the

middle of an economic boom, the likes of which we haven't seen since. it would wind down within a few years partly because of the attempts to expand the war on poverty at the same time president johnson expanded the conflict in vietnam. by the end of the 1960's, this dream of growth will lift everybody to new heights that we've not seen before, that sort of goes away within a few years but in 1964, it was the apogee of optimism about what the country can a compass together. we don't have big deficits, those are decades away so there's not a lot of concern about that. democrats had strong control in the congress. that would get even stronger with the election of 1964 and

barry goldwater getting badly beaten by johnson. it was a time where there was a lot of experimentation and a lot of believe that there were no limits to what the federal government could do. host: what we are marking coming up is the 60th anniversary of lbj's great society speech at the university of michigan. what was it about this speech? guest: the great society and the war on poverty, there was a lot happening at the same time that overlap. i think the great society ends up being even more ambitious than the war on poverty. the war on poverty as part of it but part of it is expanding civil rights agendas that president johnson was able to get through congress. you have a lot of programs around community involvement and boosting political power of local communities. you have things like headstart and other programs that aren't

necessarily about reducing property -- poverty but expanding opportunities. that in some ways is an expansion of this original idea of lifting more people out of poverty. guest: when president johnson is giving this speech of the university of michigan, he's trying to inspire the country and inspire future generations and talk about what's possible. it was an older society approach, it wasn't just all about government. one of the things president johnson and his administration did was to promote the development of new private institutions that would help guide and valuate the progress. he was essentially saying poverty is an injustice. our racial disparities are in the justice and he talked a lot about protecting the environment and you can see how relevant all these issues are today.

he said we need to come together as a country and this will help us build a stronger country and it will help us when we come together that we solve these problems and we will grow together. there were a number of shortcomings but by and large, that speech really outlines this vision of how we can tackle some of our greatest problems together with a few initial ideas but no certainty about all of the answers. host: this wednesday march the 60th anniversary of that speech. here is an audio expert -- excerpt of it. [video clip] >> in your time, we have the opportunity to move not only towards a richer society and a powerful society but upward to the great society. the great society rests on abundance and liberty for all. it demands an end to poverty and racial injustice. to which we are totally

committed in our time. [applause] host: president lyndon johnson talking about the great society and marking the 60th anniversary of that speech this wednesday. out of that came the war on poverty and that is our discussion this morning. some key legislation during that time, social security amendments of 1965 created medicare and medicaid and expanded social security benefits. the food stamp act of 1964, the economic opportunity act of 1964, that was job corps, the federal work-study program and a number of other initiatives and then you have elementary and secondary education act subsidizing school districts with a large share of impoverished students. what came out of this legislation? guest: in many ways, but this agenda was focused on was health

coverage and human capital for lack of a better term, helping people develop educational knowledge, skills and talents, preparing them for the labor force. there was some on income support but generally to have people have a basic income which the biden administration wanted to have a guaranteed income but then decided against it. we really made progress later on a bipartisan as bases under nixon, ford and under president george w. bush and others where we said this is a big gap. what came about from this time was pretty remarkable. these are durable programs. medicaid not only reduces poverty by most measures that account for health coverage but it reduces people's interactions with the criminal justice system

which is really important in an age of mass incarceration which is another thing the president didn't foresee but we went down that path. what didn't come about was a balancing of the economy. similarly, as scott said, there is a sense of a rising tide would lift all boats. that was sort of true when you look back to when president kennedy first use that metaphor about stuff happening in part of that is because there was a massive decline in unionization. the economy is not producing the gauge it once did in an even way. it did produce gains but not for folks at the bottom. that made it more and more necessary if we didn't change out the economy was producing wages and earnings for groot, more was necessary to have in public benefits and support. we have durable programs like headstart that have shown to

have positive long-term effects in many studies and sometimes these programs even pay for themselves which is pretty remarkable. at the same time, there were a number of trends and shifts happening that were not well addressed by the agenda at the time. host: what are your thoughts on the legislation and the impact today? guest: it's a mixed bag. medicare and medicaid were huge advances in terms of providing health insurance to a large segment of the population that lacked it. the war on poverty most immediate help most americans. there was a dramatic decline in property among the elderly. there were improvements in health and we can get into what the official measures of poverty says but the elderly were certainly helped by the security expansions and medicare. health insurance for non-elderly

family through medicaid was also very important. i think there were other aspects of the great society and the war on poverty that were less successful. some of the expansions and liberalization of the aid to families with dependent children program which is the main cash welfare program was in existence at the time. they were probably counterproductive in terms of expanding the opportunity johnson wanted to see. johnson was clear whenever he talked about poverty that the goal was not to lift people above an arbitrary line just by giving them transfers, he wanted people to become more self-sufficient, he didn't want them -- he would say dependent on the dole. by that criteria, the legacy of the war on poverty is more mixed . for a long time, the ways in which we expanded these programs ended up being somewhat counterproductive in the 1990's,

there is a series of bipartisan reforms we can talk about but it set things up a little bit more balance. a lot of the programs he created would mean -- remained with us today. we need to have some of these programs and if we don't like them, we should find replacements for them rather than discarding them. we want to hear from all of you. if you live in the eastern or central part of the country, dial in at (202) 748-8000. mountain/pacific, (202) 748-8001 . you can join us on facebook.com/ c-span and on x at c-span wj or text us at (202) 748-8003. what is needed now where we are

today as a society? guest: the united states has built an economy that has among the largest share of low-paid jobs among rich countries. there is a glut of very low-paying jobs in this country. when scott talks about people being self-sufficient even though i think we all depend on each other in various ways, often we are thinking about people working. turns out lots of people are working and are paid poorly in the united states and that relates to the decline in unionization. we see more of a worker void and need to see more power. or been gains for people who have low income including especially for some communities of color but also for white americans with the lowest incomes. they pale in comparison to the gains at the very top and they also, in my view, they often are

dependent on some of these programs and transfers even more than i would like. i would like it to people's jobs were compensated such that they could have a decent standard of living. johnson was clear that this was about raising living standards across the country, rural or urban, black or white so that's necessary. the other thing that's necessary as a result of these challenges is a basic income floor. we've found it did not do much of anything to discourage work. in fact, because our caregiving infrastructure is not what needs to become a lot of people even use unconditional income like the child tax credit expansion in the american rescue plan act, they use that income to allow them to go to work. i think we mean -- we need more and worker voices and supporting peoples caregiving needs throughout their life. host: how would you answer that

question? guest: my analysis would start with what's happening poverty over time. i think the story is impressive, more than people realize. if you take the official poverty line the government has, by that definition, 1964 when president johnson makes this speech, 19% of the u.s. population is poor. by that official measure today, is between 11-12% so it's gone down quite a bit but it's the growth understatement of how much more we have produced poverty over time. the official measure doesn't include most of the major ways we have tried to attack poverty like income or food stamps or housing benefits, medicare and medicaid. it doesn't count the tax credits so we have better measures of poverty. when you look at those, the improvement is much better.

the in numbers i put the most stuck and suggest the poverty rate in 1964 was 19% and today it's 102% of them measure everything the same way. dramatic inclines in poverty because we expanded the safety net but in large measure, is because of the strength of the american economy. the increases in income before recount transfers has been a big part of it as well. a big part of has been the changes we made in the 1990's which were reforms to the safety net that encouraged work through welfare reform. from there, if you look at intergenerational mobility, if you start the bottom as a kid, can you escape the bottom when you are an adult? we packed -- we made practically no progress in 60 years by that metric. that suggest the things we need to do it to increase upper mobility out of poverty over generations are different than the things we would want to do

just reduce point in time poverty rate. there is a different agenda there in terms of getting disadvantaged kids ready for school. there has to be recognition of the importance of place and the disadvantages of concentrated poverty and i would say the two-parent family is really broken down over this time. that's been harmful for kids in upward mobility. it's a safety net we had in the 1960's and 70's and 80's and that's to blame for that. thinking how we can reform the programs we have that reduces poverty but does it in a way that is not going to limit upward mobility. host: what do you make of the upward mobility argument and focusing on education and other areas? guest: a major focus of the great society and the war on poverty was education. one thing we found as these investments in early childhood

especially when complemented by the source of elementary school investments in secondary school investments. we saw that increase people's chances of moving out of poverty as adults. the kids were exposed to these programs, even programs like a bipartisan food stamp act, they have better health outcomes. people were in the early years of life exposed to medicaid are more likely to graduate from high school. these programs essentially ensure the basic foundation we all know that everyone one of his needs to access this opportunity and be able to thrive. i think we have a lot to build on a lot of these programs didn't go far enough. they absolutely acknowledge people and place and if you listen to the rest of the president's speech, he talks even more about rural areas, tribal reservations and talks more about the cities and the

specific strategies that are needed and he acknowledges poverty everywhere and some of this has to do with place. we've learned a lot about that. i think we have to -- we have done very little to ensure access to affordable housing for people in this country since then and it's among the greatest challenges that we are facing. housing is so important to influence people's access to opportunities, transportation, education, jobs and yet in this country, housing has become quite unaffordable for many millions of people. that's an area where i would love to see us tackle head-on. host: let's get to our viewers. we are marking the 60 anniversary of lyndon johnson's great society speech. the anniversary is this wednesday, may 22. he gave a speech at the university of michigan. kentucky is up first. caller: thank you very kindly.

i believe that we've been privatizing public-sector sector functions for decades. even after the rhetoric about growing government, the private sector has been taking over the public sector with a motive. the social safety act, there is wide range of income where you cannot make it up my to get by but a claim you get too much money to get help. also, the thing about dependency is it people have the necessary conditions like food or bed to sleep in or something, then they will have what they need to acquire the conditions. without that, you have to starve in the streets. the last thing i will say is if you look at poor lower income districts in our communities, they don't get the proper public

sector functions. you look. at the well off areas and to get the best of everything. if everyone was -- elected at the large instead of districts, i will listen to your answer. guest: that's a lot. i maybe will take the first point about privatization. i'm not entirely sure what the caller was referring to. i would call myself liking to leverage the strength of markets more so than we do. when you think of privatization, you can think of the private sector providing benefits without any public subsidy and

obviously that doesn't always work out for low income americans. if we had a private educational system, you have growth in a quality education. you would also have people who could not afford any education. also when you have public education system that is more less a monopoly of the government, that takes away a lot of the incentive to innovate it takes a lot of incentive away from putting kids priorities first. in a place like that, conservatives say we need to give kids more options to get their education from people other than the sort of monopoly public provider. that is why conservatives tend

to like charter schools which organizes like a public school but does not have a lot of the constraints. if you talk about -- i think the experiment with public housing which is less of a johnson initiative, more predating johnson, the big public housing projects that still stand today, but a lot of it was torn down in the 1990's. those have some serious problems in terms of crime, violence and safety that were not helping residents. conservatives say why not give people housing vouchers instead? give it to any landlord that would accept it. the push moving forward needs to be more of a combination of the public sector and private sector then was the case in the 1960's. guest: i will start with the privatization question as well. briefly, as anne kim documented

in her new book, we have multiple examples of corporations not introducing efficiencies. in fact, introducing inefficiencies. lobbying for them. for example, tax prep filing assistance where the government can provide the same service and would not lobby to add paperwork in the way we see the private sector do this. that is a real challenge and one we need to take on. secondly, you make an important point about the fact that very often, people are struggling and not qualify for some of these benefits. they are just a little too well-off. i think many of our programs are overly targeted in some cases and we should think hard about the fact we have so many people in this country who work even full-time year-round and cannot

make ends meet, and are sometimes even technically below the poverty line. we do need to think about what we can do to support people even as incomes rise because it is still quite a challenge to make ends meet in this country well into the working-class and middle-class. i will also just note that the conditions that you described, the necessary conditions for people to then achieve a more sufficient lifestyle are exactly the sorts of things we are talking about here. whether it is health care, income, even basic education, those are the conditions that will allow -- the research allows people to thrive, especially when they have some of them as children and then become adults. finally, we get back to this question of place. some of the core areas in this country do have a much poorer public services.

that could include education, infrastructure, and we've also created some historical harms. building highways, because of race, right their neighborhoods that would cut them off through some of the opportunities they would have had. we have a lot more to do, but the federal government clearly plays a role in helping support some of the communities in this country of all races -- rural, urban, throughout the nation -- in ensuring they have some of the basic services and infrastructure that will in fact allow the private sector to thrive. host: let's go to ernest in rhode island. caller: thank you for taking the call. the programs have really evolved to help the country. the first is headstart. this is a program that took

underprivileged kids, fed them, provided childcare for at least half a day that enabled people to get to work and enable better nutritional standards. and republicans have been attacking headstart since it started in the 1970's and i cannot understand why. the second issue is medicare medicaid. johnson's goal was for universal health care. he wanted to get everybody universal health insurance and who do you think opposed that? it was the republicans, and most prolifically, the american medical association. that is how it became compromised -- the reason why medicare, because seniors were losing their homes to hospitals. but could not afford the hospital bills. they instituted medicare for people over 65 and had a compromise.

ok, we are going to have a health care plan called medicaid for the lowest of our people in poverty. host: i will jump in at that point and kick off the conversation. guest: let's start with headstart. when it was first introduced, it seemed to have a lot of positive long-term effects for the kids. as they become adults, they graduate from high school, college, they do better in the labor market. one of the successes of headstart and other such programs is we started creating other options for families, too. today, families have a lot more options. not enough. a lot of families go without needed childcare and women in particular provided billions of dollars of unpaid care every year, but we have improved the conditions for folks that are not participating in headstart

who are otherwise low income. even parenting practices have improved. headstart has done a lot of good if you just focus on the kids, never mind the fact that allows parents or caregiver the ability to work. i appreciate the holistic nature often of the programs. some of the programs now will see lots of variation and there are better practices and worst practices. that is something that policymakers are constantly working to learn about and improve. universal health care, it is absolutely right that president johnson wanted universal health care. he was not the first, he was up last president to advocate for that. we have built on the infrastructure of medicare and medicaid through the affordable care act, as well as subsidies and creating health insurance marketplaces. there are still

nearly a dozen states that have refused to participate in medicare expansion which would help a lot of folks who often don't have children at home, but are working and not getting health coverage through their employer. this goes back to the issue of whether we want strong work incentives, whether we don't want to punish people. universal health coverage would be one of the best ways to get rid of any work disincentives and to ensure that people throughout the income spectrum have some basic level of health care. guest: very quickly, i think on headstart, i would probably respectfully disagree with indi. there are studies out there that are nonexperimental that have found some longer-term effects of headstart. by not care mental, -- by nonexperimental, they differ in many different ways.

you try to adjust for those differences and you look at headstart helped the ones that got it. it is hard to do those kinds of studies and control for the different things that might better. the gold standard for research is to do a randomized controlled experiment. where you give some people headstart and you withhold it from other people. that has actually been done and what has been found over time is that the gains in terms of test scores fade out over time, by the time kids are in third grade, the kids who got headstart don't look any better than the kids who didn't. there's a lot of questions about what headstart is trying to do. is headstart trying to raise test scores? i think it should, but there are a lot of disagreements about what it is. ernest about the opposition to medicare/medicaid. medicaid was thrown in as almost

a poison pill. they were trying to throw it wart medicare from getting passed. there's always been a fair amount of opposition to these programs. it gets back to the story about the appropriate role of markets and the federal government. i would argue we ought to cover more people by leveraging markets more than we do. i think if you imagine we have federally required car insurance, for instance, that required everyone be covered for paying jobs and rims for their tires come a lot people would be getting pink jobs and rims further tires and that would escalate the costs for every thing related to cars. in some ways, we have done that for health care. we subsidized for people, rather

than supporting catastrophic costs. i think we ought to be focused more narrowly on that. host: let's go to greg in springfield, virginia. caller: hi. neither of these guys have said much about human behavior, about choices that people make. the black community, for instance, in the 1930's have less crime even though jim crow was terrible. effect is you can -- the fact is you cannot just focus on outcomes. the problem there is too complicated, more involved than just saying we will declare war on poverty. host: scott? guest: i think the 1960's, crime expanded a lot, for sure. that was also a period where there was a lot of overcrowding

in neighborhoods. there was more poverty than there is now. there were a lot of civil rights issues, a lot of it having to do with police forces. all the major urban riots were triggered by conflicts with police, for instance. i agree with the caller that choices are important. i also think that people generally make good choices for the most part. i think it is easy to focus on the folks were abusing the system, but black poverty and black child poverty are at an all-time low today. i think it is hard for a lot of people to believe, but both are way down over time. what is and down is this massive gap -- is not down is this massive gap we have in economic mobility between blacks and whites. it is a complicated issue.

the differences in family structure are implicated there, but these choices don't come in a vacuum. these were people whose ancestors were in an institution that were trying to destroy the black family. these are people whose grandparents were far poorer than any of us could imagine and far poorer than the grandparents of comparable white children at the time. these are folks whose children are raised in the kind of concentrated poverty that most white kids do not see. if you are up in those circumstances, what kind of choices will you be led to if you don't have role models for upward mobility in your immediate experience? i do think that choice and responsibility are very important. i think our policies cannot undermine that at all, which is why i favor more safety net reforms that require work requirements and time limits, but i think it is a danger to

just look at differences between groups and say it just reflects cultural decisions or choices. host: indi? guest: we definitely agree. i want to emphasize that we have seen rising employment rates in the black community, other communities that have been marginalized and excluded. we have also seen policymakers make choices. when we talk about behavior and choices, we need to hold policymakers accountable. they have made choices decriminalize and incarcerate at levels unseen in other democracies and targeting specifically the black community. so, even when scott mentioned family structure and parenting, first of all, the rise of single mothers in the u.s. is pretty much on par with what you see in other wealthy countries. here, we punish single mothers more. we have withdrawn support in

ways you don't see another countries. being a single mother here is more of a challenge that it is another countries because of the choices policymakers have made. black fathers spend more time with their children than almost any group of fathers. but when you separate families and destroy families, where we replace slavery, we had jim crow, segregation, but we still have a lot of those legacies persisting with incarceration and arrests and the jail time and prison time. there are racial disparities with the drugs that are targeted, the way that communities are surveilled in black communities, you have a much higher chance of interacting with the child protective services system even if your circumstances are pretty much identical to a white community.

that means it is much more likely your family gets torn apart. people are making decisions and operating in a system, in structures, with institutions that are not in the first place treating them with equal concern and respect. we have a lot of work to do to transform, reform, in some cases replace these systems, but like scott, i think people are making a lot of rational decisions and we have a lot we can do to help them make the decisions that are best for their families. host: let's get to walter in mississippi. caller: how are you doing? host: go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i think this great society deal was just another way to move us closer to socialism. that it's all it has done. these people know it. i don't understand why they are sitting up there talking about -- that don't mean too much to

people that really know what's going on. host: just a reminder for you and others, you have to mute the television. the great society and the war on poverty indeed was socialism, the underlying theory? guest: it was very explicitly about the whole of society approach, including the private sector, to tackle a national problem. in fact, it turns out there are things government does much better than the private sector. health insurance is one of them. you can spread out risk in ways that the private sector can't. it does not have the same incentive to deny people's claims for needed health care. we saw that in the pandemic, the government stepped in, worked with the private sector but helped ensure the development of vaccines. it helped of the actual implementation of a strategy to get people vaccines to save lives. programs like the child tax

credit, whatever you want to label it, where you give families a basic income because they are raising children, what we do know is they pay for themselves many times over for the rest of us. it is a good thing for all of us if we can ensure that everyone has a chance to develop and flourish. in my view, if the answer sometimes is government, so be it. if the answer is sometimes the government supporting the private sector, so be it. the great society was fundamentally about a whole of society approach. host: how would you answer that question? guest: i'm inclined to agree with walter than indi. i don't think i would call it socialism but i would say that great society and progressivism to this day is probably much more comfortable with a stronger public role than a private role. i think that extends to things like a guaranteed income, for

instance, where as indi said, president johnson's aides wanted to implement a universal basic income program. the compromise was a randomized experiment, sort of like what i mentioned before. during the 1970's, that was intended to test this idea. if you give people a guaranteed income but does not require work, is that going to be good for their outcome ? will it provide more work? if you give people income and phase it out less quickly, that ought to promote work. instead, what the sermon found is it discouraged work -- what the experiment found is it discouraged work. the experiment was shut down prematurely. i think that is a lot of the concern conservatives have today with something like the universal basic income. or an expanded child allowance.

is that the unintended consequences that are stemming from good intentions will actually end up doing harm than help. guest: i strongly agree that they shut down the program prematurely, for different reasons. it turns out that the kids and families where we get basic income generally did better because of the basic income more than any changes in work. it is not that work doesn't matter, it is that income does matter. when you reduce the stress of a household to afford clothing, food, utilities, you are creating a much more nurturing environment for kids to raise their kids. it did shut down the program prematurely. we have learned since then that these guaranteed income programs, which is what i am focused on rather than universal basic income, does have these long-term positive effects for

children in particular. host: we will get one more call from mapleton, illinois. good morning. caller: i wanted to address the charter school comment that mr. winship talked about. first, i want to say i was a soldier, enlisted, not drafted. i also became a police officer after that so i can talk to all day about law enforcement. mr. winship speaks in the abstract, talk about solutions on paper. he does not talk about real life issues. the reality is in schools have always been separated even since the 1954 brown decision. we went to catholic school, all of us. uniformed sisters taught us standing skills on how to read and write, so that is how we are able to understand how things work. we were a prosperous mexican family. if you want to talk about

vouchers, why don't you can find them? you are throwing minorities and poor people debate as to why they should be given vouchers. why don't we start a pilot program and don't give it to anyone else but them? that way we can see if it works and see if they can advance just like we did, my family. what do you think of that? guest: it is probably unconstitutional to do a pilot by race. i do think we should be doing a lot more experimentation. if you want concrete things rather than abstract things, i would take headstart's budget and convert the program into a voucher program. give low income families a fixed amount of money. i would say you can take this to any provider that has been licensed to accept it. if that means for your kid going to a religious institution, great. if that means getting tutoring for your kid, that is great too.

if you want music lessons for your kid -- it would let parents have more choice in the way that they invest in their kids, as opposed to having a one-size-fits-all solution that research has shown does not have long-term effects. so, i favor a lot of experimentation. in particular, to help low income african-american kids because they have a level of disadvantage, as i mentioned, that is really unknown in the white community. i will give you an example since you are looking for specifics. if you look at the percentage of black kids who grow up in neighborhoods that over the course of their childhood are 30% poor or more -- 20% poor or higher, then ends up being two thirds of black kids and it

ends up being about 5% of white kids. that is the kind of disadvantage kids are starting out with that i think we need to attack and i don't think the solution is more of a public role, universal pre-k for instance. it will help a lot more people that don't need the help and it will be expensive because of that. we need to target these things with the communities of the most need. guest: i think it is important to ask ourselves how much more do we want to separate, segregate, stigmatize people? schooling is a great example where we potentially have a lot of benefits by bringing people together to public schooling. it could be sometimes through public charter school, but nevertheless, when we think about strengthening our democracy, when we think about people being willing to and not feeling shame for their circumstances, that the kids need, in many cases, the right answer is actually bring

people together rather than split them apart. i think there's a real role for public education in addressing poverty and strengthening our democracy. part of that is going to be a federal role because right now, we have localized so much of it and based it on property taxes that by a large, people can segregate by income, race, and we have a highly unequal system of education, whether public, private or mixed that is not either doing enough to address poverty or to strengthen our democracy. host: indi, president and executive director at the center for law and social policy. scott winship with the american enterprise institute. thank you both for the conversation. we appreciate it. guest: thank you. host: we are going to take a short break. when we come back, open forum. any public policy or political issue on your mind. there are the lines.

start dialing in. we will be right back. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in session. the house will take of legislation clarifying the securities and exchange commission and the commodity future exchange commission ability to regulate cryptocurrency. the senate will take a revote on a bipartisan border security and immigration bill. antony blienill testify before two conesonal committees to discuss his departmen's proposed budget and the sta of american democracy and global instability. on tuesday and wedneay before the house foreign affairs committee. on thursday, northstern university president michael schill, ucla chancellor, and rutgers university president give accounts of the antisemitic protests on their campuses. and beginning friday,ive

coverage of the three-day libertarian party convention. friday speakers include 2024 independent presidential candidate robert fkennedy, jr., and saturday speakers include former president donald trump. watch this week live on the c-span nworks or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. go to c-span.org for scheduling information and to watch live or demand any time. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> friday night, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly round of c-span's campaign coverage. providing a one-stop shop to discover what the candidates across the country are saying to voters. first-hand accounts from political reporters, fundraising data, a campaign adsnd -- and campaign ads. watch friday night at 7:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, online at

c-span.org, or download it as a podcast on c-span now. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back in open forum for our remaining time this morning. the hush money trial in new york for the former president was expected to end this week. however, news this morning out of new york is that the judge says closing arguments in the hush money trial will be next week. from "the washington post," it said the judge says testimony will wrap up this weekend closing arguments will be held after the long weekend break for memorial day. "right now, it is looking like we will finish everything this weo we could have summations first thing tuesday without a

break." that is the latest from that trial this morning. richard in minneapolis, republican. hi, richard, what's on your mind? caller: yes, good morning. host: good morning. caller: since you started talking about the trial, i don't see how trump can get a fair resolution on there. they say that the judge donated to the democratic party and his daughter is an operative for the democratic party. they are having it in new york. how do they get an unbiased jury in new york? it is mostly democrats. then, the last topic, the great society, i was trying to get into ask those guys why was the

male separated from the household when the women were receiving child assistance, economic assistance? i wish somebody could answer that. host: well, apologies, richard. marilyn is in san francisco. hi. caller: yes, i wanted to make a comment based on the last guests and their discussion. my question would have been to scott, i think his name was. why don't republicans or conservatives ever come out and say for every person that is receiving benefits, let's say, i think he used the word on the dole from back in the day -- statistics show that corporations are also getting a handout for whatever is being given to the individual and their family. for

for instance, the for-profit welfare to work industry. there are for-profit companies that get paid supposedly to place people in jobs. take a look at it. it's been a disaster. people don't get any better jobs than they would have gotten on their own working retail part-time at the wal-mart. number two, people who get benefits these days get them on credit cards that come from visa, master card, wells fargo, bank of america. those are all corporations that are on the government dole. i wish people would educate themselves and realize, like i said, for every dollar that goes to the person that's getting benefits, a corporation is benefiting behind the scene. has their hand out to the government. we want a piece of this pie. host: marilyn's thoughts in san francisco. charles in illinois, democratic caller. charles, we are in open forum. caller: good morning.

host: buffalo, kentucky, republican. james. caller: thank you for taking my call. there's two things i got to say. one, i believe that with biden bringing in all these people from all these different stopbries and not vetting them, we are due for a huge -- countries and not vetting them, we are due for a huge terrorist attack. and they are going to -- they are already here. they are safe houses are already planning and how to take us down. that's one. another your guests there were talking about how the schools and all that -- first of all, they are having -- the democrats don't allow the kids to go where they want to go. they want to keep them in the same system so they can keep on depending on their vote.

and third, with the social security going broke, all these people that are coming into the country are going to be drawing upon it. a lot of them are past their prime. and social security's going broke. with all these people going to be drawing from it. host: understood. james talking about immigration as we told you earlier, the senate and house are in washington this week. ahead of the memorial day weekend. in the senate, the leader, majority leader, chuck schumer, democrat of new york, announced yesterday he will bring up for another vote that bipartisan border security bill that was negotiated on the senate side earlier this week. so look for that debate and vote happening in the senate. our coverage over on c-span2. president biden was in two battleground states yesterday.

he started his morning in georgia at morehouse college for the commencement address there. then to detroit, michigan, later in the evening. here's what he had to say in detroit at a gathering for the naacp about black voters and the role they'll play in campaign 2024. president biden: i just came from atlanta where i delivered a commencement at morehouse college. because phraus president biden: traoug inspiring. over 400 young black men will do extraordinary things. i told them, i saw them, i heard them. and the nation needs them. they are the future of this country. i'm here tonight to say the nation also needs all of you. and i mean that sincerely. you matter. you matter. let's be clear because of your vote, it's the only reason i'm standing here as president of the united states of america. period. [applause]

president biden: that's not a joke. that's a fact. you are the reason kamala harris, historic vice president. you're the reason donald trump is the defeated former president. and you're the reason donald trump's going to be a loser again. host: president biden has appealed to black voters yesterday. both at morehouse college and in detroit. if you missed any of his remarks, find them on our website, c-span.org. yesterday on cbs's facial the -- face the nation, j.d. advance, the senator from ohio, republican, was talking about why he supports former president donald trump in november. take a listen. >> you work at the manhattan courtroom, you were in ohio alongside donald trump at a fundraiser. i know you keep getting asked whether or not you are going to be vice president or not. and you said you haven't spoken to him about it. we are also looking at a pret kreu tight race in the -- pretty tight race in the senate. are you more helpful to him in the senate or white house?

senator advance: i -- senator vance: i'm happy to be an advocate for the agenda in the united states senate. that's the best way to help the people of ohio. i'm interested in helping other ways if that's what matters. we have to re-elect donald trump as president. the contrast is so extraordinary between higher inflation at home and war overseas. that's the biden record. and the trump administration record of peace at home and prosperity. that is an incredible thing to run on. it's an incredible thing to deliver for our country. we need to help donald trump across the finish line. that's why i spent time with him the couple weeks, showing up for support tph-r new york. i don't care that much who the vice president is because trump will govern. host: "face the nation" yesterday. talk about campaign 2024 here in open forum and all the issues surrounding it. as well as public policy.

also reaction to this morning the iranian president and the foreign minister dying in a helicopter crash. we learned of that yesterday. rick scott, senator from florida, republican, tweeting out that if he is dead, the world is now a safer and bette place. that evil man was a tyrant and terrorist. he w not loved or respected and will hno be missed byo one if he's gone. truly hope the iranian people have a chance to take their country back from murderous dictators. also more reaction from members of congress. mike waltz, good riddens. a murderous human rhts abuser before and during his presidency. lookor the iranian regime to blame israel and the u.s. for assassination as another excuse. roberto in houston, independent. caller: good morning, greta. good morning, america.

israel so declared war against la ha mass was illegal and declared simply to commit genocide against the palestinians living in gaza. this is obvious to the whole world except israel and the u.s. political leadership. the time has come for israel to face severe consequences for its war crimes against humanity. the u.n. secretary-general must take charge of the state of israel as well as the -- gaza. host: all right. roberto's thoughts there in houston. we did learn this morning, cnn had exclusive reporting in a thl criminal court has issued warrants of arrest for israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu as well as hamas leader. as we said here on the "washington journal," we sat down with an expert on the international criminal court asked him how it works there. and the -- if there were to be warrants of arrest for the

israel-hamas war, how would that work? find it on our website c-span.org. president in his commencement address at morehouse college did talk about the hamas-israel war. here's what he told the graduates. president biden: i want to say this very clearly. i support peaceful nonviolent protests. your voices should be heard. i promise you i hear them. i determined -- i'm determined to make my administration look like america. i have more african-americans in high places including on the court than any president in american history. [applause] president biden: because i need the input. what's happening in gaza and israel is heartbreaking. hamas' vicious attack on israel killing innocent lives and holding people hostage. i was there nine days after. pictures of a mother and

daughter in a robe, pouring kerosene on them, burning them, watching as they die. innocent palestinians caught in the middle of all this. men, women, and children killed and displaced in desperate need of water, food, and medicine. it's a humanitarian crisis in gaza. that's why i have called for an meade cease-fire. immediate cease-fire to stop the fighting. bring the hostages home. i have been working on a deal as we speak, working around the clock, to lead a national effort to get more aid into gaza. rebuild gaza. i'm working around the clock for more than just one cease-fire. working to bring the region together. working to build a lasting, durable peace. the question s. you see what's going on in israel today, what after? what after hamas? what happens then? what happens in gaza? what rights do the palestinian

people have? i'm working to make sure we finally get a two-state solution, the only solution. [applause] president biden: for two people to live in peace, security, and dignity. host: president biden at morehouse college yesterday. happening on capitol hill today we'll hear from the defense secretary along with the joint chiefs of staff chair. they'll hold a news conference at the pentagon after their virtual meeting with the ukraine defense contact group. we'll have live coverage of that at 12:30 p.m. eastern time. also on our free mobile app, c-span now. or online at c-span.org. 12:30 right here on c-span for that news conference. you can also talk about the russia-ukraine war here in open forum. loretta, hear from you in tampa, florida. democratic caller, hi, loretta. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would just like to say my plan

is to vote for president biden because of the options that are presented to us. i don't agree with how the president is handling the gaza and israeli situation. i think that he needs to stop sending weapons over there because it's -- the extreme attack upon those people is just unreal. it appears people are making decisions based on religious reasons. however, god said, according to the word of god, the bible stated that there were wicked kings even during that time. host: all right, loretta. we'll hear more about president biden's strategy in the middle east when the secretary of state testifies today up on capitol hill. he'll be before the senate -- not today, tomorrow. tomorrow. tuesday, 10:30 a.m. eastern time

is when the secretary of state will be testifying. we'll have coverage that he on c-span3. free mobile app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. that is his first of two testimonies he'll be giving on capitol hill this week. there's also this related to it in the "washington times" this morning. g.o.p. losing momentum to impeach biden over shipments. representative corey miller -- mills, a republican, his impeachment resolution against president biden gained just five co-sponsors since it was introduced. several house republicans said mr. biden's actions on pausing weapons did not meet the impeachment threshold. pausing weapons to israel. anthony in new york, republican. hi, what's on your mind. caller: aim not a republican -- i'm not a republican. host: we are listening to you. you are not a republican. caller: no.

i'm a democrat. but i was concerned about everybody's -- seemed like everybody's blaming everything on biden when congress is not doing their job. they are blaming the food prices is up. gas prices is up. that's congress' job to regulate that and get that straightened out. even the immigration system, too. host: regulating prices, wouldn't that be the federal reserve? caller: you're right. yeah. host: control inflation. host: robert, chesterfield, virginia, independent. hi. caller: good morning. look, i've got two issues. i hope i get them done fast i ain't got but 30 more days to call back. one thing, i wish you all would do some type of program on global warming that involves the commercial airplane traffic. when 9/11 happened there was no

fly for a week. the temp dropped two degrees, the sky was cleared. we need to investigate more about what the cause of these planes up there. so many of them heating up the atmosphere and doing things. that's one thing. the other thing is, this sing with judge -- supreme court justice alito and thomas. congress and the senate ought to move to impeach those guys. what they have done, especially alito, is unconscionable. he could have took that flag down and put it back upright. he blames it on his wife. i think he's lying. we know that thomas is a liar not knowing what was going on with his wife. that's what i got to say. i appreciate you taking the call. host: thanks. martha in cleveland, ohio. democratic caller. hi. caller: hello. my comment is about an observation based on personal experience. about the welfare system. i think it applies to black and

white americans. i think that we have been brainwashed into thinking that there's something wonderful about making it in this country. not accepting welfare, even if you need it. there are probably many more people who would qualify. they have been led to believe that it's all their fault and that they are not good people. and then you have the pride, their children, the help that they could have had because they have been brainwashed into thinking that this is something that good americans and good people don't accept. thank you. host: robert, hollywood, maryland, independent, robert. we are in open forum. what's on your mind. caller: good morning. i appreciate you taking my call. i am 60 years old.

i'm like everybody to step back and look at our government, look at the -- they are like kids in a sand box fighting over a toy. look at the choices we have for president. i don't understand where this country's heading. i know where i think it's heading. come on, this is a great nation we have. we can only come up with biden and trump to run for president out of all these smart people and better politicians. that's all i got to say. host: all right, robert. while president biden was on the campaign trail appealing to black voters yesterday. the former president was also out talking to key constituencies at the n.r.a. he was there on saturday at their annual meeting. here's what he told the crowd there. president trump: if this horrible low i.q. individual who is representing us, if this horrible person who has done

such a bad job, worst president, if this horrible individual, finishes the debate, which i think he will, if he's standing, they'll say it was a brilliant performance. it was a wreulant -- brilliant performance. never seen anything like it. reminiscent of the days of f.d.r. f.d.r. had a beautiful voice, magnificent voice. great debater. very smart man. f.d.r., 16 years. almost 16 years. he was four term. are we going to be considered three term or two term, you tell me? ronnie, what do you think? three term or two term if we win? think of it, they are going to say wonderful. he did the state of the union the other day. i was high as a kite. so i think we should call for drug tests on the debate, yeah? we are going to call for drug tests. host: former president at the national rifle association's annual meeting.

mike in kentucky, republican. mike. good morning. caller: good morning. i just like to know president biden is considering letting palestinian refugees come into this country. the countries that live around gaza, they don't want them because they are terrible people. host: all palestinians are terrible people. caller: what about -- they are dancing in the streets. burning american flags when 9/11 happened. you want to bring those people into this country. i don't understand it. i know he's trying to get votes out of michigan. but he'll put the country second and his campaign first just to get elected. i don't understand it. host: all right. mike's beliefs there. we'll go to another mike in seattle, democratic caller. caller: good morning. my name is mike. i live in seattle.

i'm a 41-year-old millennial jewish male. i want to say that gentleman's words from kentucky are repulsive. having served both in the israeli defense force and u.s. air force, i have served under palestinian allied commanders. i have no problem with our country welcoming palestinians here. this conflict is awful. but turning the page on to more positive things, the 2024 election, i'm excited to vote for biden. i think biden's put together a great team. i think lena is tremendous. jennifer granholm is tremendous. gina raimondo is tremendous. i have watched all their speeches and testimonials on the house. they are absolutely phenomenal individuals. i like additionally in the democratic party, the governor of maryland. i also like the governor of michigan. i have no problem waiting for 2028 so we can make a spot for these rising stars. i'm going democrat all the way.

i appreciate your time. thank you. host: all right, that was mike there in seattle. democratic caller. we are in open forum this morning. any politics or political issue that's on your mind. you heard him mention maryland governor, that's wes moore, a democrat, he was on nbc yesterday. here's what he had to say about black voters. governor moore: there is a frustration and cynicism. i think it's long-standing. we have to remember -- my grandfather was born in this country. he was just a toddler. the ku klux klan ran him out, my whole family, out of this country. and i'm now standing here as his grandson as the 63rd governor of the state of maryland and only the third african-american ever elected governor in the history of this country. the reason i bring that up is because history does matter. when we look at the fact that in maryland there is an 8-1 racial wealth gap, that's not because one group is working eight times

hadder. when we look at unemployment rates or cannabis was used as a cudgel against black communities so long in our nation's history, that's a reality. the thing that the president is showing that when you look at the president doing things like rescheduling cannabis from schedule one to schedule three, having the largest pardon for cannabis convictions. having the largest growth in black-owned businesses, for black men in 30 years, we have a president who is doing something about it. about these systemic challenges we have been facing. host: democratic maryland governor there wes moore on nbc. carol in minnesota, republican. carol, good morning. caller: good morning, to you, too. about a week or so ago you had a woman that called up. you were talking about social security at the time. and she was saying she was denied her husband's benefits. that had passed away. i was going to say to all the women out there that don't know

this, social security has a booklet out that's called, what every woman should know about social security. and it's very informative. whatever question you have is in that book. thank you. have a nice day. host: ok. louis in fort valley, georgia, democratic caller. caller: about immigration. host: about immigration. we are listening. caller: the past immigration bill. the bill has not been passed because of an individual called congress and told him not to pass the bill. he's the reason we are not -- he's the reason we don't have -- host: louis, you are referring to the former president and his opposition to the bipartisan border bill that was negotiated in the senate. and again as we told you the majority leader, chuck schumer,

says he'll bring that up again for a vote this week. tune in to c-span2 for coverage of that debate. maria in new jersey, hi. caller: hi, good morning. how are you. listen, please, please do not cut me off. several weeks ago there were one or two callers that were cut off because of what they had to say. all i want to say is i am very, very troubled. you don't need a medical degree to see that joe biden is very imcompared mentally and physically -- impaired mentally and physically. he's got to wear special shoes now so he doesn't keep falling like he used to. this man -- it's a shame. he doesn't have the mentality to run this country. it's those behind him. they are using him as a puppet.

and this is the man that's supposed to be running this country. that's why we are in trouble bigtime. host: all right. all right, maria. i think we heard your thought there. daniel in kansas, democratic caller. caller: good morning. host: can you phao*ut your television. caller: -- mute your television. caller: yeah. just a quick opinion. the more -- the more israel attacks the palestinians and destroy their homeland, just like what happened in iraq when the u.s. detroit iraq and somalia, they ought to be allowed to come into the united states. they should be allowed asylum. that's just my opinion. host: all right. kathy in orlando, florida, independent. what's on your mind? caller: hi, good morning. happy monday, god bless america. i'm concerned about our children.

gen-z, millennials, i want to put a little proactive u.s. memorial day is coming. if we could just not raise the social security, increase mental and health care, put a freeze on some of these benefits that we have on those who are noncitizens or just came into the state, however they got here. so that way a lot of our benefits as i am in my 60's, aim boomer, i'm 61, i'll be 62 this year, concerns about social security. i would like to see social security for the gen-z's and millennials. a lot of the programs i work with fundings and grants are going to those who just got here. 99% of them, whether it's every category across the forum,

whether it's housing, h.u.d., if it's rental use, or medical, and that being said, last not least f. we could have our kids television for american kids to learn a second language for free. all ages can learn spanish for an example. coming from miami, i would love to learn spanish just like kids who come here get that for free. thank you so much for your time. host: jim in eagle point, oregon, independent. hi. caller: good morning. how are you? i just wanted to clarify social security, when people across the border and/or however they get into our country, i'm not sure that they can collect social security without paying into it first. and my second thought for the day is regardless who our president is going to be, i

believe that we all need to focus on corporate greed in order to bring any pricing down for affordable housing, food, for all of it. thank you very much. have a good day. host: all right. jim there in eagle point, oregon. independent. one last here. james, atlanta, independent. caller: great. in reference to the lady and every day that people are calling and say they couldn't get through, the reason you can't get through on c-span, we need c-span. this is where people get to hear things like the name of julian asan so we can discuss matters that matter. we don't need the line tied up all the time with people saying good morning to each other and going on and on about how much they love c-span. thank you, america. try to do better, pretty please. host: we'll end it on that note. we'll be back tomorrow morning with another tk-frs *r conversation. join -- conversation. join us at 7 a.m. eastern time.

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] >> a look now at our live coverage today on c-span. 12:30, defense second general lloyd austin and khoeupbt chiefs of staff chair general charles q.c. brown jr. brief reporters at the pentagon following their virtual meeting of the defense contract group. the johnny moore on international religious freedom talk about the israel hamas war. he's appearing at the zionist rabbinical coalition here in washington, d.c.

>> this week on the c-span networks. the house and senate are in session. the house will take up legislation clarifying the securities and exchange commission and cod eut futures trading commission ability to regulate digital assets and crypto currency. the senate will take a procedural revote on a bipartisan border security and immigration bill that was blocked earlier this year. secretary of state antony blinken will testify before two coressional committees to discuss his department's proposed 25 dget and state of american democracy and glol instability on tuesday before the senate foreign relations committee, and wednesday before the house foign affairs committee. thursday, northwestern unersity schil and rutgers universityresident jonathan holloway give an account of the anti-semitic protests on tir campuses before the house education and workforce committee. and friday, live coverage of the three-day libertarian party convention. speakers include robert f.

kennedy, jr. and saturday speakers include republican presidential candidate former president donald trump. watch this week live on t c-span network or on c-spanow, our free mobile video app. also, head over to c-span.org for information or to watch a live or on-demand anytime. if you ever missed any c-span coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting and new the work -- these were the highlights. these markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you have play on selected videos. this timeline makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on points of interest. c-span is your