his first book and looking for a job that would help pay the bills to essentially promote his writing career. stewart, despite his sinister appearance did give him a job and he became a clerk in stewart's office and it was not unusual at that time because the senate only met a few months out of the year and often hired reporters and correspondents and collection and was sort of mutual beneficial experience for both of them. but he didn't prove to be a particularly good employee. >> betty koed with her book "scenes" sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. listen to q&a and all our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and more, including spark light. >> the greatest town on earth is the place you call home.

at spark light, it's our home, too. right now we're all facing our greatest challenge. that's why spark light is working around the clock to keep you connected. we're doing our part so it's a little easier do yours. >> spark light supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> with more than 250 appearances in the c-span video library, former pennsylvania republican congressman charlie dent, no stranger to c-span viewers, these days working as a adviser to our republican legacy. congressman dent, what is our republican legacy? guest: thanks for having me on the program, john. our republican legacy is a group that for the moment, former republican officials and many others who are joining, we are really about trying to reset the republican party. we believe thay dispirited republicans around

the country who want something better for the party. we organize around five key principles that we believe are enduring that have sustained the republican party for demo -- for generations. and i will just briefly mention what they are. we talk about the constitution, the union, fiscal responsibility and free markets. that is essential to what we are about. also peace through strength, our fifth point. i can get through each of these a little bit. we want to restore this party to what it had been. we are not naive. we know the party will change going forward, but we have these enduring principles that have guided us for 170 years and we need to promote a counter narrative an argument to the maga movement. i have heard from many republicans who are voting for donald trump right now who want something better, but they are

not hearing an alternative. it is clear to us that somewhere around when he percent of republicans want something different. they are voting for nikki haley who has not been a candidate for many weeks. what we think is that if we provide this alternative and this argument that we could start building a movement. part of that movement will include we want to speak to trump voters who might vote for donald trump because they dislike joe biden so much and we want to show them that there is a better way. we want to grow this movement. we know the party is divided and it is not evenly divided. the maga movement is more dominant, we get it. at the same time we want to do better. we talk about the constitution and we believe in an orderly transfer of power. after you've had dozens of lawsuit validating an election it is time to concede and be

part of the peaceful transfer of power. we believe in this notion from the constitution and 70 ma -- some in the maga movement do not. abraham lincoln obviously served a very challenging and difficult time when the nation was enormously divided. we are about keeping the country together. our political adversaries are not our enemies but they just have differences of opinion and we have to do what we can to keep the extremes from further does not -- inviting the country. we talk about open markets. and free enterprise. many of us join for a variety of reasons and one of them is that we believe in a free economy. we believe that the types of tariffs being exposed -- imposed are extreme. these people are pushing that we protect the very few and privileged few at the expense of the many and other types of extreme governmental intervention and price controls.

we are not for that. most people in our party have not been for that for a long time. peace through strength, we believe it is an important -- it is important for the republican party to push back against aggressive autocrats like vladimir putin and stand up and embrace our allies. and particularly as we can advance america's interest through these alliances and partnerships. we have a problem with this nativist and populist movement in went -- in many ways that i think will weaken america and certainly the public -- the republican party. we are trying to tell them there is a better place to go. and we can do it. host: some big names getting involved including senators john danforth, william cowan, alan simpson. launching it via an op-ed

between trump and biden what should republicans do? some other names getting involved, john boehner, dan quayle, michael steele of maryland. what do you say to folks who say that this is never trump republicans by another name? guest: look, i would say maybe some of these folks are not trump. if you ask every person how they are voting in the election we are not a pack, -- pac, and not advocating in an election. we are thinking of amusement -- of a movement yonder 2024. most people are dispirited with the direction of the party and some might vote for donald trump and some might vote for joe biden and some might sit it out. i do not want to get into how everyone will vote. we are about creating a movement where we want a better

republican party that can endure. the more traditional view of the party has been around through 170 years through linkedin, to roosevelt to eisenhower, nixon, ford, reagan and the bushes. they all want something better. and we do not think that these maga root are rather shallow and our roots are deep. host: is a better republican party without donald trump becoming president in january 2025? guest: look. i am not going to be supporting donald trump and i did not support him in 2016. i will not speak for every member about how they will vote. i will say that any of us know that donald trump represents a real threat to this country going forward. he told us what he would do, dictator for a day and threatens to pull out of nato.

he talks about imposing extraordinary. -- tariffs that are punitive and disruptive to the economy. so nobody -- so in my view, that is not a good direction and many of us feel that just as i do. host: talk to the folks that you want to appeal to, the folks that continue to support nikki haley even though she is no longer running for president. what did you think of nikki haley endorsing donald trump ? guest: i was not surprised. it was kind of tepid. she wants a future as an elected official in the republican party and that is why she did what she did. having said that, a lot of the people voting for her are not going to be supporting donald trump in the fall. again, people want something different. she had a lot of people backing her because it was a protest vote. so we are talking to those folks

and frankly many people who are voting for trump, holding their nose and doing so, they want something better. nikki haley did what she did because she is trying to protect herself for a future run so i will not judge her. but she was also quite critical of trump and biden. host: can you talk about the difference between the more traditional republican party that you are trying to reestablish and the term maga republican. just take this congress, what percentage of republicans fall in either category, the more traditional and the maga? guest: that is hard to say. i served a lot of good and honorable people in congress, many fine members. some have been pushed into the maga camp somewhat reluctantly. we have seen this play out. take the vote on ukraine. everybody talks about there were

more republicans who voted against ukraine and ford. there are a lot more republicans who support it but did not vote for it out of fear of a maga or trump push back. there are many of them who want to come back to something more traditional and more conventional so, i think they need some people on the outside trying to create a space for them so they can find their voices once more. so, i think the number of people who embrace the values and principles that i laid out, i think there is a strong majority of republicans in congress to support them. the challenge is that the pressure is so great in maga, particularly in the primaries that they kind of hue to that wing of the party to survive a primary. i do not think they want to do that but they want to get

something much more traditional that they frankly believe in for most of their lives. host: former congressman charlie dent is our guest in this segment of the washington journal. with us for the next half hour, the senior advisor with that group our republican legacy. you can join the conversation with the democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. i want to start on the republican line. anna, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, john. mr. dent, the problem i am seeing is everybody calling republicans that support donald trump referred to as maga. that is so disparaging. i am a republican and have always been a republican. i registered at 18 and have

always voted republican. i have just seen our party kind of caving to the democratic party's bills and ideas and we have gotten just so far away from our country. we do not support our country anymore. we are supporting the globe and not taking care of americans. and that is why we support donald trump, because he will make sure that we as americans are safe. and that we are prosperous. and we have got to take care of this country. that is all i have to say. thank you. guest: the only thing i would say in response is the term maga is to describe the movement. donald trump is the leader of the maga movement. i do not mean to suggest that

all people voting for donald trump consider themselves maga, and many people are voting for him because they do not prefer the democrats, but not everything that the maga movement represents. i think that is the case. in terms of making the country stronger, i understand the caller's frustration but i respectfully disagree on one point. we have a system that requires consensus. this is a democracy with a separation of powers. we have a democratic president and majority senate and a republican majority house. whether people like it or not in order to pass laws you need republicans in the house and democrat in the senate and a democratic president to sign the bill into law. some people consider that surrender and others call that governing. you have to deal with it. i will say, always giving into the democratic demands, i do not

buy that. look at the recent legislation with respect to the border. james lankford negotiated a pretty good deal with senator chris murphy, of connecticut. he negotiated a good deal and got a lot of right of center policy victories and a lot of resources are being sent down to the border to deal with the crisis. people call that surrender but i can assure you that if donald trump is present next year and republicans control one or both chambers they will not get as good a deal as they would have had most recently. you can call that surrender her progress. i will call that progress because he will get some of what you wanted on resources that they desperately need at border control to control the massive influx of people who should not be coming into the country the way they are.

that is a frustration i have when i say democrats are moving on but you have to negotiate with these folks just as you have to negotiate with our team. host: you are starting this organization to help bring the republican party back. what do you make of donald trump going to the south bronx yesterday, a place where republicans have not usually gone to try and find votes and drawing a crowd of thousands, his campaign estimated 25,000 people who showed up in what political singles always see as a deeply blue district? guest: i think that is good politics for republicans broadly speaking to engage with communities that have been historically not been as supportive of us. republicans have to show up. so i think it is smart to speak to these constituencies,

african-american, hispanics or others who have underperformed relative to democrats. you can see that certainly hispanics are moving towards the republican party. many of them are. some african-americans are starting to move in the republican direction. the margins are going to decline among particularly hispanic and black voters. that said, all republican candidates should be doing outreach into these communities particularly minority communities where the party has struggled. i would say that is the right thing to do. host: dominic in ohio. good morning. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: ok. i just question charlie dent's motives. he is selling a book and making money off of the spinoff. guest: i am not selling a book. where did that come from?

caller: it said so on the screen under your name and the picture about a book. anyway, are you sure you are really aware of that bill that congress did not support? the main reason was 5000 allowed per day to enter? what about just one? whatever happened to the balls of america? that is have -- that is why we supported donald trump. i do not think a majority of trump supporters are not for him but it is about making america grade again. where are you at? host: your id, charlie dent republican legacy are senior advisor and then your time in congress. i am not sure where got the book. guest: the caller is frustrated about the border. i was one of the original

cosponsors of the secure fence act that allowed for the 700 miles of nuclear and pedestrian barriers -- vehicular and pedestrian barriers and that is the base of the so-called wall. i support it. and we did it on a bipartisan basis and brought people along. what happened has evolved over the years with it would deal with the problem -- the biden administration has been awol too long on this issue. and they should not have gotten rid of the remain in mexico policy because most of the

people are economic migrants who are not eligible for asylum. i would respectfully disagree that there were significant policy victories. you should pocket those victories and that is not to say you should not try to do more. you should take what you should -- what you can get. right now, nothing has improved. so the caller is upset about that 5000 number, i think that has been misrepresented. the point is they are trying to limit the number of people. they are not trying to bring in more people. i think that is why the caller might be a little bit misguided in his analysis. host: gabriel on the line for independents. durham, north carolina. caller: good morning. i am an independent and i will tell you, i am to the point where i take a step back and look at how extreme both sides become within this period, and

sometimes i do not like my voice matters at all. and the point being that when we see all these extreme factions that go to their corners and there is the reluctance to speak out against those problems because of the fear of being canceled or ostracized by the groups or may be losing the path in your career because you said something that goes against the extreme ideologies is becoming more and more entrenched. i am just wondering you as a congressman from pennsylvania where a lot of gerrymandering problems and campaign-finance issues have arisen and north carolina was just gerrymandered. my district was just cut in half in a way that is egregious and goes and goes in the propensity of what james madison said would be a problem later on in the federalist papers for politicians picking their voters. the point being, what needs to

happen, look into the camera of the american people who are listening and who do listen to c-span and tell them what do we need to do to turn this around so that the middle of the country finds its northstar again and pushes out the factions on the extremes. guest: great comment and great question. the caller, you can tell from his voice there is a certain disagree -- debris -- degree of dispiritedness and disillusionment. i found that this country really needs to have a stronger center. from centerleft to center-right and i am focusing more on center-right that we need to get that bent -- better and we need to have people in office whose first loyalty is to the constitution. to the principles that i have outlined. that is what i need and

certainly within the republican party and america. we need people dedicated to these types of principles who also believe in governance. i think one of the earlier callers suggesting that the other side is the enemy. and if you deal with the enemy you are a trader essentially is what they are saying. that is the state of american politics and that caller, i think it was a woman, she laid it out pretty clearly. and if americans view the other side as the other or the enemy. that is terrible. we need a strong center-right and a strong centerleft in this country so that we can advance an agenda that most americans can agree with. i am upset with the fringes on the right and left who are angry and i have often said they are angry in different ways. those on the right have a

cultural anger driven by isolation and -- isolationism, culturally based and from a trump standpoint he is always staying it is the mexicans or the muslims who are the problem or the chinese, always making the other the problem. on the left it is economically based, it is the rich guys oil and grat -- the oriole and gas industry and the pharmaceuticals and banks. it is economically based populism that looks similar. they are both based in anger. and this is not a healthy pay -- place for americans to be. we need to be aspirational, looking forward and not looking backward, thinking that we can do things better. we have so much going for ourselves and there are a few people talking about this country as if we have already been defeated. i reject that notion and i would say we need people like yourself to stay engaged and helped build

that center. and i will tell everybody, go to ourrepublicanlegacy.com and let us get involved and let us build the movement and arguments and be a place where people can go that feel is that caller does and many others that are politics need to get better. i served 28 years in elected office and ran 13 times. i enjoyed my constituents and i think they liked me too. i think that that was such a great honor. overwhelming me my interactions were quite positive. we did not always agree but at least we were able to have good conversations and respectful conversations and we need to restore civility in our politics because we have been through worse times and we have been through a civil rower -- civil war. we can do better and the caller should not give up. host: who were the blue dogs and what was the tuesday group?

what happened to both of those things? guest: the blue dogs are still operating in congress but not as large as they were. the new democrats is an organization that tried to appeal to more centerleft democrats. the tuesday group has renamed itself. it was a republican governance group which reflects what exactly they are. they change the name and i was a cochair of that group. it still exists as the main street partnership, it is an allied or sister group. both of those groups represent i will say pragmatic republicans who have a sense of governance. some are ideologically very conservative and some are more modern it -- moderate and some have a sense of governance. they have strong numbers in the house. as far as i know the new democrat group is large. the blue dogs are smaller than

they have been. they are still there. but the point is that center at times feels like it is not getting the attention that it deserves. they are not about blowing the place up. the freedom caucus was always willing to take a hostage legislatively speaking. they use their leverage to try to force the house to do whatever they wanted and they got a lot more attention than those trying to govern. these tuesday group members or governance group or main street new democrats and blue dogs are not trying to blow the place up, they are trying to make it work. it is important that those types of organizations within the congress be supported and empowered. host: 20 minutes left. this is clarence. nashville, tennessee. republican. caller: enjoying the show. this gentleman represents an

organization with a very good name, but when you started talking about the members that, i was taken aback by the wines, but not -- the ones, but not surprised especially when you mentioned michael steele. this tells me that this would be a good idea to have this gentleman on in december of this year, but not now. it is this group that he mentioned that has caused the republican party to be so split up and losing the number of elections that we have lost recently. so i think you are a traitor to the name of republican. and the quicker that this group that brought on the problems with this party wants to now unified.

it is a joke. host: congressman. guest: clarence, with respect, the republican party has been losing quite a bit recently under donald trump. 2018, the house was lost. 2020, republicans lost the senate and particularly in georgia where donald trump pushed into that runoff and delivered two seats in the majority to the senate to the democrats. also in 2020 donald trump himself lost the presidency by a pretty significant margin in the popular vote. you know, so in 2022, republicans underperformed in the house elections. and in a year where they probably should have cleaned up. when he says people like me are responsible for losing, i would argue it is the opposite. many of the people who have

defected from the party and that i hope that they do not, but those who have were in these types of swing districts. where they won, like i had to win in districts with more democrats and -- then republicans. we are not doing that. i would reject the notion that the people like myself who are in congress are somehow a bunch of losers. we won and we won a lot. since donald trump led the party we have seen a lot of defeat and if you want to be a governing party you have to do better in community is where we once were -- communities where we were once strong and now we are struggling. that suggests that this is the fault of the old guard is absurd. host: some of the other names of the members of our republican legacy are listed online if you want to find them. barbara comstock, tom davis,

john katko, adam kinzinger, michael steele, gordon smith, dan quayle and charlie dent who is joining us this morning. you mentioned that you are not getting politically involved in 2024, what does that mean, we will not be seeing ads? there is not going to be get out the vote efforts? guest: we will do messaging about what we are advocating, digital messaging largely but we will be doing outreach. but we are not advocating in this election for candidates. we are not doing that. we are not a pac, we are trying to create a movement. again a counter argument or resistance to what maga is pushing. that is what we are talking about. we need to develop the ideas, as i mentioned the five principles. we want people to join us and help develop that movement.

we realize that we are on the short end and that the mag movement -- maga is dominant but we have to have an alternative because people have been saying where's the alternative? we are trying to present that alternative. i have always said that too often silence is not a narrative. it does not counter what the maga movement is pushing. it is time that we create the movement and we have people like senator jack danforth, former senator alan simpson and former senator bill cohen and i will say they are the older statesmen of the movement and we want people to sign up as we have all served at different times. and we know and believe in america and believe that we can do better and be a more unified nation that one day embraces the

constitution, the union, fiscal responsibility, strength and standing up to bullies. we believe it and we think these are good principles and a lot of independent and democrats believe with the -- believe that with us to. let us roll these people into the movement. if you want to build a party you need to make it inclusive. you are not trying to excommunicate heretics. we can accept diversity of opinion within our movement. we think that is healthy and a political party. some people do not. they say if you do not agree with me you are the enemy and you should be gone and executed. and excommunicated. that is not how you grow a congregation. you bring people in and accept that they are going to be differences and you work them out. host: 10 minutes left. the group is our republican legacy. easy enough to find online. ourrepublicanlegacy.com.

jay on the republican line out of woodlawn, tennessee. caller: thank you for taking my call. representative dent, you are the very reason of the republican party that puts me towards the idea of changing. i am not a republican, i am an independent. and by that, what i mean is i am a conservative, i am not a republican. republicans have lost the idea of being conservative first. and then being republican. you remind me of the guys back in the day, the ronald reagan days. some of the greater days that this country has ever seen.

you guys would stand up and say i am a ronald republican, and then once you got elected, you turned into wishy-washy. you were not conservative. you did not stand for conservative ideas, even though you said you did. like, both bushes. daddy bush got rid of ronald reagan ideas. son bush went totally off to the left of ronald reagan. that is the reason why the republican party fell away to the side. host: that is jay. guest: again, with respect, this is not simply about reagan republicans. in fact we have a great deal for the former president. just as we did for dwight

eisenhower and others. i would say to this gentleman that he is saying very kind things about president reagan, as he should. at the same time i do not think that ronald reagan would recognize where the party is today. many of the things that ronald reagan stood for like supporting the allies and peace through strength, i do not see that in the maga movement. ronald reagan would have been the first to support ukraine and their struggle. that is not where we are today as a party. i do not think that ronald reagan would be supporting these absurd tariffs. he believed in the free market. i am trying to understand. i consider myself a center-right type of person, moderately conservative. that is a good thing, frankly. some are very conservative and some are less conservative but that does not matter. we all embrace certain principles. i would say that many of the

people, he is right about one thing. i do not know that i would call the maga movement a conservative movement. i would call it liberal populist. i do not think it is very conservative. i agree with the caller. but to suggest that somehow the party of reagan has been abandoned by people like me and others in this movement i think is unfair because look at jack danforth who served with ronald reagan and simpson all of these folks. they had a lot of suspect -- of respect and agreed with him on many issues. and so again, i am not sure where the caller is coming from. he is right. i am not sure that i would call it a conservative movement. it is a liberal populist movement. host: john in california. line for republicans. good morning. caller: good to hear from you and i remember charlie when he was in government. i would just like to say i do

not know where the republicans you represent are going. we have illegals that have been getting across the borders since biden has been president. what do you think the future is if biden gets reelected? they are going to earn the vote and you will never see another republican president in my lifetime. i do not understand. you talk about the constitution, and what is going on with all of these phony trials that they are putting trump under, is that unconstitutional? host: i apologize. i think we lost the call but we got the point. guest: i got the point. of course the border has to be addressed and i agree that the biden administration has been really slow to the game. at the same time i think republican should engage before the election not just after. but absolutely this has to be done.

when i was in the house on the homeland security committee i was doing quite a bit to make sure that we have better protection at the border and to try to establish operational control. where if the republicans been? i am not sure what else to say except that there are a lot of republicans who are dispirited who want something better. he is saying we are not going to be able to win an election again, i would disagree. sometimes we have to present a message that reaches out to more folks than just those in the base. i have seen in pennsylvania that suburban communities that were once dominated by the republicans have become strongly democratic and this is throughout my state and nationally. it is about drawing more people in. so when he talks about losing,

everybody keeps talking about losing. that is right. the party has been losing because it is not reaching out to enough folks. i am encouraged to see that so many african-american and hispanic voters are moving towards the gop and i think asian voters are moving there. if the party continues at efforts, those are important. we also have to be the party that is one that people feel comfortable joining. and too often particularly from president trump he will tell people that he does not want them in the party. and the gentleman refers to those. well the president's conduct, let us set aside new york, whether or not this is a good case or not. i do not think it is strong. we can agree that the conduct that led to the trial is really bad. you should not have paid off an adult film star to conceal an affair or alleged affair.

that is what he did. the conduct is terrible. that conduct in mar-a-lago, withholding declassified documents and then obstructing and refusing to return them is serious. i would not say that is a joke or it is unconstitutional. in my view, that is a serious charge. and you know, if congress had done that we would have been arrested and prosecuted for taking classified documents and refusing to return them. to say that is unconstitutional i would disagree. and people attacked the capital on january 6 and there are prosecutions going on about that. those people waved unconstitutionally to say the least and many of them were violent and to suggest that these people are hostages or victims is absurd. and we need is a party to call that stuff out when there are people who say that they are

republicans who attacked the capital as they did on that day to stop the peaceful transfer of power. we should be appalled. and rightly call it out and condemn it and prosecute that kind of crime. host: jared on the democratic line. wilmington, delaware. good morning. caller: hello, mr. dent. thank you, i am from pennsylvania originally. i am an african-american millennial. my first time voting was for barack obama but i really got into politics during the hillary and trump debates and bernie. so much so i love my country i named my kids justice and liberty. i am really into america and where it is headed. i have a question. you said all of the things about the trial and you are really outspoken and i commend you on that on donald trump and his threat to democracy.

democracy is not only for republicans and democrats that is for all people. if we wanted we have to work for it. my question is with some people leaning towards donald trump and forgetting about the 2020's with covid and all the lives and jobs we lost, what do you think happens if god forbid, donald trump becomes president. do we have a civil war or do we keep our democracy? what will happen if he does get back into office and not held accountable for the things of the past? he is implementing project 2025. i would like your idea on project 2025 and what happens if he gets into the office. host: about two minutes left and i will let you end with this. guest: if he were to be reelected or elected again, i say i would like to think that our institutions are strong and many of them will hold.

obviously they have been under stress, particularly the courts. the courts stood up in 2020 with all of these election challenges whether they were republican or democratic child -- judges they followed the law. i feel good about that. i am concerned about project 2025 that we keep hearing about that the trump administration would likely populate itself with many folks who would carry out the worst impulses of donald trump, pulling out of nato and i wonder what would happen putting in people who would want to weaponize the department of justice to go after political enemies as i think the former president suggested that he would. i do worry about that and i would like to think that our democracy will hold. i do not have any crystal ball to tell people what that administration would look like and how the country would react. i am concerned going forward because we s