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>> the go history of an institution so unique, so rich events, so influential in the landscape of ourst 25 years, betty has donewith the utmost professionalism, devotion and a bit of a flare. every week she gives as a little history lesson at our lunch lead a resolution with leader mcconnell and all other 98 senators commemorating officially designating her congratulatis, emerita of the u.s. senate. >> in my time in thee, betty has been a fieate application for the preservation of senate records. her colleagues described her aknowledgeable, considerate, and persistent.

it wouldcall betty koed, senate, a historic milestone in its own right. host: betty koed. senate leaders were talking about you. betty: they were. [laughs] host: why were they talking about you? betty: that was years of service. host: at the end of your retirement you put out this book "scenes, people, placests that shaped the united states senate." how long have you been working onnd years. i d working on it in 2009 because that is when i started to go to the tuesday caucus luncheons to what we called historical minute, essentially a five minute history talk to senators at colleagues dick bakere it before me and i took over ineague has also been doing it in recent years. we and republican party caucuses covered on tuesdays. host: so, weekly, you go to the senate lunches and

deliver the same speech to both republicans and democrats? betty: depends on which caucus you are going to, but us, don ritchie and i did it together for a years, but we would each write our own stories and it wa. . they sometimes requested stories, "tell us about such or so-and-so," but they never dictated what it should be. i began with the republican cauc 2009 at the invitation of senator mcconnell. at that point the firshistorian, dick baker, had been doing this atratic caucus every week for years, but republicans hadn't caught leader mcconnell, who is a great lover of history, came and asked me to start doing it on their repus and i did that. i did it almost until the day i left the office. years, produced hundreds of th usually, you know anywhere from 500long. they had to be short, succinct se you only had five minutes to tell the story. but they had to also tell a

complete story. it was an interest good challenge and probably one of the b i have had as a senate historian. senators kept coming and asking me to produce a put them into the book because they wanted to share the stories with other people, and that is what resulted in the book we call "scenes." host: what was the interest level from thenators as a rule lovthey are institution that is very tradition-bound so they are day. and it is not unusual for get multiple requests from a senator,, or their office asking for historical or backgroundmaterial. that would often call and sao fly home thursday or friday and i want to know more about this topic, can you tell me what to read? so it was an ongoing sor process to bring history to the senators and helpem learn more about their role in the broader history of the u.s. and it --host: do you remember

the topic in 2009? betty: i do, because at that ublicans were in the minority so their tuesday the lbj room, the smaller of the two rooms. so the majority caucus always met in the mansfield room, and caucus in the lbj room. i began by telling them the history of that room a do they ever choose the topic>>? betty: sometimes they do. they will come to me and say john m a goldwater. because so many people in the senate today don't remember barry goldwater. that. or they would come in and say, i would re -- the origins of the filibuster. can you tell us about the origins of the consent agreement? it's a challenge to come up with a new idea every singlet a lot of the ideas came from senators themselves, they would come to me or my colleague about this particular person or event or this part of the institution that is so important now, but we don't know why it

got to the place it is. host: so wh y goldwater as the 1964 presidential candidate, when he lost the election to lyndon johnson that at the time, he was sort of the conservatism and he was portrayed as a radical conservative, ways, but h much a statesman. he was a senator at heartafter his election, he returned to the senate and lived most of the rest of his li senator he died not that long after he left office. but in the senate he was a different kind of characterthe presidential candidate, very down-to-earth, much senate. in became rather an elder by the 1970's and 1980's -- elder statesman. he was held in high esteem. but he had quirky part of personas radio, independent amateur o radio . everywhere hehe him, he actually builtte office building so that he could go down to that studio and play on his hand radio into the wee

hours of the morning.ner told me hearings for the armed services committee -- they search together on that committee and goldwater would come in yawning and eyed and they knew he would have been all night hand radio. more than anything is what he is remembered for in the senate. host: so, betty koed, exactly is the role of the historian besides these weekly lunches the historian serves as the institutional memory for the . in the senate historical office, we have two principal parts of our mission in our office. one is to preserve the of the senate. it means to preserve all the artifacts,ll all the records, and to to study and understand the history. to promote the senate. all such instructions to the first historian when they created the office back in 1975 was to go out to the nation and lete know what the senate is and why it is so important andlays.

that is why we do interviews like this, why we produce publications and go to scholarly conferences and book, to help people understand why the senate it is so important to our constitutional system of government. but also the other part is to make sure we preserve the records of the senate. so in the historical office we also have the senate archival led by karen paul who has been the archivist for almost 43 years. they are in charge to make sure record of the official record is housed in the national archives. they work closely senator to ensure his or her records are saved in the-s repository. that is the broad mission of the office of the preserve and promote the history of the senate. in addition to that, that mission has grown throughout the years so that we provide torical programs that happen on capitol hill including the executive e oversees a large photo collection would have collected and compiled over the years and also works with authors and

televisi producers and podcast producers and things like images to them when they need ite have a team of historians, three historians on staf archivists on f, we have been adding staff in recent years, as well as and researcher and photo historian. we have a really good team inside thethey are all working collaboratively on projects that really initial mission. probably theof wewe estimate 15, s if and click on the "about the senate" button, that is where you find the material. it includes institutional material, biographical ab information on parties and how th developed everything you can imagine that is related to senate we also are there to help senators with the speech, and they want to provide history in it, they wid ask -- come to us and ask for information.

throughout the year we will dotalks and presentations, particularly to senators and staff but also to the public as all of that, a multipurpose ission of preserving and promoting the senate. host: i don't know if it made it easier for you a june 2, 1980 six, but we want to show a little video that you talk about in "scenes." [video clip] "scenes," >> but our friends and people across the country today asmmunications dark ages, we create another historical in the relationship betwe -- and technological advancements for radio and television. as time has ofte reminded us, -- week work this has rightly been, not, mr. president president that i delude we practice here in the senate floor constitutes a great character the ratings of "dynasty," or "dallas."

i wish to know that we have advice on how to do this and how to make certain that we cut that shine on the head. [laughter] >> imagine the capitol hill sailed with has three grecian mascara has recently reached an all-time high. [laughter] host: betty koed t.v. team to the senate on that day. betty: indeed, in 1986. it was a long time coming. howard baker of tennessee was the man who really worked hard to promotecameras into the senate chamber. it took ' well, the senate is a very traditional institution. ther were lots of concerns about how well it would look on tv. on any given day, theber is often empty because things are happening elsewhere and not in the chamber, but even in chamber, it tended to be an institution where people acquired, serious speeches,

sometimes very long speeches that didn't necessarily mean good television for a 1reds. people were concerned people would be turned off about it or be interested in what they had to see. what they saw on but also, there were concerns about members that it would change the that people would start to grandstand foe they would be talking to the cameras rather than their colleagues or the and all of that is truen element of truth to e democratic leader, was very skeptical about bringing television to the senate chamber. as howard baker was pushing for it, he started came in 1974, they were preparing for what might have been a impeachment trial of nixon. nixon resigned and that didn'thappen. they left the cameras in place lo swearing in of vice president nelson rockefeller then they 1970's, howard baker was talking bring cameras in to fill in the debate over the panama canal, tedious and difficult debates, that was a different process for them to go through. the robert byrd -- he had no interest in that wha really thought

it would change the culture of a senate that he loved to its core. but as the years went by, the house ado coverage in 1979 and the house started to get a lot more on the precedent and in the evening news had lots of video to provide. then the leaders, including byrd, began to rethink the process and, robert burch told the sto that he was at a west virginia event and hemistakenly introduced as the speaker of the house. he said a knew the senate had to go on tv because he was losing ground to the speaker of the host: in your book "scenes, people, places and events that sena c senate, it is populated by some of the choicest characters in the whole " tv was not for -- far into the senate, especially when it came to from 1951. [video clip] >> costello, did you hear the about mr. francis maclachlan yesterday? >> all due respect to the

senate, which i have a lot of respect for, i am not going to answer another question. i am not under arrest. i'm going to walk out. >> i should explain to you, that is what a legal situation as, you are under subpoena, assume, the chairman instructs you to remain in answer, you will thereby become guilty of contempt of the senate committee. >> just ae, just a minute mr. costello. >> you don't mean every resource in our command to see that he is brought to contempt and arrested. narrator: frank stella, they fob for hearings. was that the senator idea to bring camerafoit? he got a lot of press for it, he was convinced he was infiltration of organized crime thought the only way he could really educate the public was bring the hearings to television were almost in full con they became a bit of a television sensation. the newspaper headliscreaming things

like, this major . it was a big success really in that way. it didn't do any harm to the his status rose and he became a household name and anttial election succumb, but it also showed an important part of the senate that people prior that time had little knowledge of and that was its investigatory role. it was a well handled, well investigation. it h in crime bosses and great figures like costello from the world testified, some of them didn't. on be shown on television, they only showed hi in the camera and that in and of itself became a televisual fingers of organized crime. but end, it showed that television had a role to playwork of the senate. host: betty senators allowed to edit anything that they say on the historical record? betty: they every day they produce

a congressional record which is a near verbatim account of what happened the day beforeand senators there is an initial congressionaly that is a verbatim account, but senators then can comments or their speeches and edit them if anymore, they pretty much let it go out verbatim. in earlier days, back in the early 20th century and c early 19th -- -- late 19th century, they would edit them. you let at the daily congressional record as well as the formal congressional information in their daily running will in the formal. by today, that doesn't happen a lot -- they still have the ability to do but the reporters of the debate tell me it is pretty much verbatim at: back irman of what isfarmer and haberdashery the national spotlight." what was this about? betty: har his second term in the senate in a special senate committee to the national defense

program. at that time we had entered the pre-pearl harbor, but we were starting to gear up for wartime activities, including, conhuge amount of funds to preparations for war being lined up and find all the time andabout how that public moneye program. . that proposal was accepted, they created committee, named harry truman as chair of the committee, give him a meager $50,000 budget to start the process. he started to look into defense contracts and how the money was spent. he traveled all around the country, visited production sites and to people on the streets. public to serve as watchdogs and of wistful government spending in defense issues. and he got thousands and thousands of letters from the public. some of them lead to real investigatory moment. so it proved committee. uncover massive amounts of government waste and

spending. it is estimated he probably saved close to $10 billion in sarof

f is1959.

in fact, the most important part of his senate careerhe, returned from 1860-1874 when he died in office, he not only continued the cause ofprincipal architect of the civil rights actessence put in place the language for what b, so you have a phd from uc santa barbara, undergrad degree from there as well. colorado, mason city, iowa, all your past.

to know that story when you are attending uc santa senate? betty: actually, i did not know the line in high school history class or something thatt, when i came to the senate i knew nothing of the carles sumner. because i had read about him in graduate school. but i was mostly a 20th-century historian in schtury history. and there are so many things about the senate i knew nothing about. i sometimes knew name, i vaguely had heard something t studied them in any detail. sometimes as a senate historian and i will give you a good example of this, when i delivered a story in the republican caucus about the achievement of charlesr story, i went into that luncheon thhere will know the story because they work in and ar capitol, and it is told all the time on any time someone visits the old senate chamber, they will hear the when preston brooks walks into thees charles sumner, and at that point i left the minutes was up. and i said, "and you know ti started

to leave and as i left, i another, "did he hit him?" that point, even they didn't necessarily the story. so the next week i came back and told the rest of the story. u can't take it for granted that people are going to hear senate history if congress in schools but they get very little about the senate. so anything we approach as senateans, we approach with the expectation that we are going to hare we tell the rest of the story. host: you became senate 2015, but you joined the senate office in 1998. did both senators trent lott and tom daschle, as leaders of thattime have to sign off on your hiring? betty: no. it's up to the secretary of the leadership, and i don't think there's ey will go to leadership and say, this is the person we havete historian, the leadership, but as the assistant historian, sort of the apprentice coming in, it doesn't get to that level.

it goes to the s level. when they decide 2015, at that point, the secretary wi say, we would like to promote this person to senate historian. host: who were the leaders in 2015? betty: we would have had -- it reid. host: 1990 eight. quite a momentous year in the senate. betty: it was. fact, i joined in june of 1998. my colleagues, dick baker and don ritchie said to me, it's going to be a nice, quiet year because it's an election year so you will have lots of to read and get used to your new position. i had been there just a few months, when the house decided to impeach president clintonit was just chaos. crazy time. probably the busiest hour offiall three of us just spent all day on calls, answering questions from information, studying june,

coindentally, dick baker had in mind that he would like to put more information on our we about senate impeachment trials. so he assigned me the task of studying senate impeachment trials as one of my first i also was the person who at that time, which was brand-new. i had spent the or four months deeply in the study of senate impeachment history so that helped out a a tumultuous time for us as well as the nation. host: because of the nature of the senate trial, to work closely with the house historian and the supreme court historian? betty:court historian, although there se, they have a historical society. we worked with the chief justice because he was preserving over the trial -- presiding over the trial. we worked a lot with the house hiby time the house historian's office was going through its own transition as well in and we were doing these sort of projects, impeachmentf

the union addresses, anything involving both houses of congress, we work very carefully with the house historye. host: betty koed has been a friend of c-span over then 2019 that she helped us with this. >> asked several times today will version of the senator from s amendment? no. >> thomas jefferson questioned the need for senate. >> framers believed. >> that one of the constitution. >> sometimes it seems nothing is happening on the senate floor. the action is going on elsewhere. runs,ces, in the offices of the senate leaders. but that's all preliminary. r later, everything has to come here. here is wher say the final act, takes pl♪ host: once again, thank you for how much effort was it to get our cameras where we got our

cameras? betty: we had to get resolution passed to allow that chamber, other than as you know, the usual c-span cameras are there in certain spaces and certain cameras?s with the c-span feed, in order to get any ditional coverage, you have to get a resolution passed in the net to do that, so itprocess. host: and that entire documentary is available on our website,betty: that was a fun project. host: w work, a lotppreciate that. back to your book "scenes, , people, places and events that shaped the united states i want to ask about two people ihistory, rebecca felton and gladys file. betty: oh, yes, early female senators. rebecca felton was the first female senator. to fill a vacant seat in the senate and became the first woman to se from 1789-1822, that is a long time to get a female senator.

she came into the a fluke in some ways, it was a vacancy in the offic and the governor of her state moved to gain that seat himself, he had lost his own reelection bid forerthought the best way he could election was to assuage the women senators of his state to help him give him that spot. the women's suffrage amendme just passed a couple of years before that, he had vehemently opposed it, alienated a lot of women in his state so he thought if he could gain those women's votes, he would have a good chance winning the election. so with appointed rebecca felton, who was old to serve as a placeholder for that seat until he cou it didn't work out that way. he left the election to walter in 1922 and went on to serve a long senate term. but walter george stepped aside allow rebecca felton to be sworn into of she served for another 24ch in the senate. so it was a short-lived

milestone. host: but she was the first woman. since 1989. now, gladys. file is an interesting case. rebecca felton was a democrat from georgia. gladys file was the first republican -- gladys pyle was the first republican woman to serve. she didn't get to serve either. this was making 38. it is -- this is 1938, it was the 1938 midterm election. at that time franklin roosevelt was in his second term as president, they were expecting to and he was hoping few pieces of legislation in that postelection lame-duck session where he still hads as he could keep in that spot. even though the year and was not expected to come back until as hoping that he would call congress session and take advantage of majority he had at the time. pwas there because there was a vacant seator had died

in office, and be empty when the election came, from november until republicans wanted to be sure they had as many as possible so they couldin those legislative efforts, so they turned to gladys who was a well-known figure in southand been secretary of state, a pioneering woman in at time. they brought her into feel that november-january period there just to hold a seat in case they needed her vote. and it turned out they did vote because roosevelt did nevertheless, and this is part of that era anymore, she did come to washath not in open just an oath given by a judge or some other official that allowed her to do some senate business and served as senator for about 6, 7 weeks during november and december of thatoften because it is partly due to the fact that senate is in all year-round now, we don't

have long periods of adjou like we used to have. senators get swornn, in open session very quickly now so they don't have to do that. in those days they would often sworn in after appointment in their home state so they can start business as quickly as so gladys pyle is a owns not only a south dakota in -- not onh politics but also in, the u.s. e blican woman senator. host: for me, learning about these two women, they were accomplished in your own right before they even came to the utely. rebecca felton was known as." the grand old lady of inpartly because her husband had beenoffice, but she had been very active in the women'swell-known. unfortunately she had also been very active in anti-civil-rights efforts, that is the darker side ry. but well-known in georgia. same with gladys pyle mentioned, she had been in state and won the popular vote, but she didn't have the necessary ao one

of her male competitors. must have been infuriating, think. but she came intoinsenator lester hunt entered the senate office wiednu many victims of senator joseph mccarthy's baseless charges. one of them was lester hunt." betty: that is a sad story. a tragic moment in senate history. lester hunt had been a popular senator. a popular democratic senator from the state of wyoming, which was in itself a because wyoming was mostly a republican senator at that -- republican state at that point and still y. ec think-communist crusade, but there was another side of mccarthyisha lesbians in the u.s. lester hunt's son was homosexual. arrested in a park in washington, d.c. for soliciting an undercover officer, and was let out. it was a first offense and they sent him home to his family. lester hunt had hoped the incident would not gain

publicitvocal, outspoken critic of joe mccarthy in early 1950's, mccar help push lester hunt out of office. this incident with his son became the make that happen. mccarthy and his allies in the senate began to put a lot oe and thereby hopefuormccarthy. lester hunt refused to do so. but as time went by, the burden of carrying the secret of his son's problem along persecution by mccarthy and his allies, the burden just grew until that date in954 when he committed suicide in the russell senate office building. host: do yousuicide, and what is it used for today? betty: it is in a member's office. offices have changed a lot through the years in the russell senate building. . they have been reconfigured. but room's in lester huntal office at the time. now it is just part of a larger

suite on the third you also write in "scenes,"about senate hideaways. what is a hideaway? betty: a hideaway is a private office in the capitol building a senator can use as an escape from the turmoil and the chaos in the capitol. host:.t rather than the senate office building? betty: yes. back to the 19th century senators found little rooms somewhere that they took over and made their own and created their own personal office. really until the russell building opened in 1909, senators did not have personal offices, the only space they had was their desk in the senate t was their office. so consequently, they look for any space they could. at one point in t 1890's, the senate was renting a big apartmen senators, so that space they began to give spaces to each senator who chaired a committee. and through the years, the number of committees grew and grew anduntil you get to

the 1920's we had something like 70 committees and every senator needed to have an office. offi d that "a spaces in the capitol and a lot se spaces were turned into what we call hideaway spaces, hideaway offices. it goes by most senior senator would get the best one, all the way down. they would have a space somewhere in the capitol building, as c where they could have quiet the case may be. to the years, the numberhideaways grew as opportunities arose, when the other buildings opened. a lot of staff that were working inapitol got shifted into the office ' 2009, enough staff got shifted to that space that all senators were able to have hideaway spaces. some of them, very senthe national mall and the washington monument. the more junior senators tend to have a small little room in the basement, often with no windows at all.

host: israel hideaway. betty: yes -- new, state real . betty: i have been in some of them. it the things they hope to get as they gain seniority. host: senate pro tem patty murray should have the grander bemesurpass lyndon johnson. as majority leader, johnson occupied several hideaways along with a grand leadership suite. he had so many rooms, in fact, that they collectively became known as the johnson east ranch." betty: yeah. lyndon johnson was the master of real estate on capitol hil became majority leader in the 1950's,he gained every space he could get. he had his personal officis hideaway office then it just kept growing and where as majority leader, he gained what we now call the lyndon johnson room onhe second floor, one of the prettiest rooms in the capitol. . he took that space over and that became his leadership offy of

the otherces. . when he became vice president in 1961, he also got the vice president's's office in the relinquish the lbj room. so with each step he moved up the ladder, he to give some of it but he became president. host: what is your job as senate historian and america now? betty: i am here to consult whenever necessary. something comes up in the office and successors have questions, i am there. host: whrian, she joined the office in 2010 after dick baker d and she is a wonderful skilled speaker so she has taken over all the tests i did but i am here as a consultant if they neeme not leave me very often because she is her job and has a very wonderful assistant historiandaniel. holt there in the process of looking for a new assistant so

they will have three in-place again soon. the senate has events or they want to have something ready be me back to tk and i am available for that. so it is more just sort as an advisory consultant role at this point, as needed. st so in your semi retirement, what are you doing? betty: well, i am spending time doing a lot of things i didn't get enough time to do over the last quarter-ca drummer, so i spend a lot of time drumming. i am in a drum group and that is a lot of fun and we enjoyed that a i do martial arts so i get spend a lot of time doing that. writing projects. i put history off. i have banned history from the house for a few months. [laughter] i can't read or write any history for at least six months, just to give myself a break. host: have you been faithful to that so far? betty: i have, so far. other types of writing i am doing an family, just doing things i sort of lost track of over the years. host: and, of course, in her last months as senate historian betty koed worked on this book, "scenes, people, places and events that shaped the united

we appreciate your spending one hour with us here on c-span. the happy to be here. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the al caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] ♪ are available on our website, or as a podcast on our c-span now app. ♪