and i spent most of my day walking around the west wing trying to build a team because they were not aat that particular time. and once we got able to do that, i felt like we were really good place until the first impeachment. but for a while there it was. it did work, but it was a challenge because of where i was in the cycle. i wasn't at the very beginning and i wasn't going into the real. we were the sort of there. i got there right after the midterms with a specific goal of fixing the place. and thatange the culture fromof brutal vipers to two folks actually functioning as a tm. and it worked. after that, then the challenge became fairly simple, which is with with the normal people? because trump liked trump like all people, he would. i've heard that clinton was the same. i think obama was the exact opposite. i'm case. trump loved to have big ghave a. so we had i used to joke that we ulsekets to the trade discussions because we'd have

people over here on this side of thn th side of the argument and trump would would send the ship back as the arbitrator, as theud an hour and a half. and sometimes there'd20pe office yelling at each other, which was great. it's what he wanted. my challenge was to make sure there was balance in the room so that for everybody who was a a staunch protectionist, i had a free people were relatively evenly matched intellectually in terms of ego and so forth, so that you had a good debate. i neededo president had the best information in front of him from thbest decisions. he couak that's an interesting policy issue for you to illustrate th'e impression that president trump was remotely moved by on that particular issue, an opposite side of his own vion trade. so did he did you feel he was absorbing in all the time entertaining? well, look at the practical applications of it. we changed his mind on australian tariffs on steel

and he did that as a result of a debate. and when i mean debate i mean i thought gary cohn was going to kill bob lighthizer. that occurring?e° i mean, it was like what was happening that moment. no, cohn never grabbed him around the throat. but no, i mean, you■c grown meny are not shy. big egos and big intellects. in fact, one of the things that disappointed me about when i left is i tell people when we when wee interior was a circle. the senior advisers to the ceo of exxonmobil, the former president of goldmanand say what their politics. and those are real people. okay at the end this the inner circle included the guy who sellst night on fox news. i worked reallrd2 happening. and then after i left,%hi could happen again for one quick

piece on what makes and we talked about egos. you covered the congress. you also have big egos in the senate and the house is huge stakehr.legislation through unless you have good rapport on the hill. i used to have a $1 bet with the ■< senator would come in by himself. the two chairs there in the oval office seen the picture a millin times with the fireplace would s would the senator sit dowe chr r before the president offered it one nine out of ten beds. and that's a■! think of you as g with the president. role.urse, that's but you have to do this day. stakeholders in the cabinet members and the members of congress in congress are essential, obviously, to almost any president's agenda. so that's that's an interesting point. i would like to look into some more to just first o i always you to be asked for the part of my job that keep yeah, e

talk can't do that when there's a trade advisor. yeah. well i could have put athe conge beyond anything i'll do.reect md stake. and believe me. and they reallye president's fu. it's all about them. so i came up with a brilliant idea that we s reorganization plan as a prototype to get a gani government because you may not agree, but it reallyoe real well. okay. and so i worked for a long time withf e. yeah. they quietly came up with this great plan and we had a ot ■5■édepartment, small business,t it in a plan and the dpresident. the ability to reorganize by by

taking that power away from. and he used to be able to put to congress a plan here's a reorganization plan for the whole government. put it up or down. no amendments, up or down. illiant plan. so the president doesn't h in te press and old thing we had a ■sxdlls s great filled up harry reid callsre was the majority lr at the time majority lrdemocrate and they were in control. don't waste our time don't even bring that up here. i'm like, oh, how about we just have a discussion? because everybody knows this thing working real well and we got tont, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and max baucus was the chairman. he calls me and he says to me, what iss? and i said, well, max, all we want is a hearing. okay? just no blinking. we the end. it was a great event.

probably got a tatof it. but that's as far as that's your own and that's your own party. i an yeah, so i like the idea, but it was the congress and we couldn't preview it with them because they would have just shut it down before we even get it. but probably subject agnostic, i think we talked about you've all kind of■ h■t something difficult difficult message or or that that the messed up or something tha't wa. so i would like to, again, go down the line with as much an possibly recall. what what had i'm not talking at we'll get to the big one, but i'm talking about something where you just knew he's not going to want to hearhie really screwed that up and he has no idea. and i've got to have to tell what's that like when you when you have to deliver something that they don't want to hear. you have to tell them you don't

want to hear this, but i'm going to tell it to you and you have you're doing it. and it be a thousand different things. it could be policy. cting to what is happening in congress, could be something reacting to what' in . but you have to have the courage to say, as mack mclarty would say, ufos,av unforeseen occurrences for sure, or unknown intended con and those are sometimes very difficult to o the ce because. you should be feeling a little guilty if there was an unintended consequence because you should have had somebody ont consequence. and so when doesn't happen, does that mean heads will roll? disappointed.people will b you have to do work. you have to go up on capitol hill, solve a problem. maybe eat a meal of crow. i can't you how many meaf crow i ate over here on the hill

or in the oval office? acknowledge that you didn't do the job as well as you we didn't think about this happening. it had happened. do you do have any examples there, bill? and i would also i'm curious and i would ask all of obama, did ht more he had done wrong or just bringing gardened bad news? he he he his public image was very cool. he did fluct in in based upon steady. and i think in addition he thin that amy said, oftentimes you have to come and tell them something aut in cabinet, in the take some action on them. that's awkward, especially if

they're good friends of the president. but he■w all the time. it was pretty have no memory of him top. not right. and i don't know president read, he he sometimes as well as top. so that's all i know. he is nothing like president clinton. if you were in the room, president clinton and he it was quite a scene when you want to get to the door quickly. when did you want to run for the ■dono, not too often. but because i knew him well, only when it was, exactly. exactly. but, but, with him when he was governor. so it was it■u relationship in my case. we talked respect the president is a very, very smart, intuitive person. so he had kind of a military

with me when i came into the room the oval office there one on one. okay. go ahead and give he b mean, he. he knew me well enough. that's probably what iere. maybe, maybe not the subject, but probably news. secondly, a summer thunderstorm. he would have littlle temper moment there and then it would kind of come baown little bit lighter. and, you know, i would again, it because of relations ship and he he knew, you know, i was trying to get right way, even y best. not always leading. but when he woul kind of have that. and in people who can't leave i would say, well, are you would accept that. i mean, he was a yes, i am. but, you know, so that's kind of the way i it. i think the moment iember not necessarily real bad news, but president clinton coming out of the campaign where he would

linger with each and every voter to the last died, as he put it. that was a real andy in the oval office with ruon tim president clinton did not run on time. and i just get so frustted with that. so finally, when they make i went in ere in, he was doing his mail and i was hi so well organized.rilliant it was just st. see how your mind can work in that order. e manner and be so disorganized. personally, i just don't understandglasses. i said, well, actually i made you mad. and he said, oh, n you just hurt my feelings. so, you(já know, that was the pt i was trying to make. he got a little better and he did ge better. the eight years. he did get better eight ar to m. did you ever see president trump lose his temper? r saw. in fact, i've commented a couple

of times that i read all these stories about throwing food and i was around the man a lot and that was not the president. i saw wheth left that i can't speak to. i never saw that int on one hand the number of times i actually went inos doors. president we we have a problem. we we this, okay? because i knew i knew that he wouldn't react positively to that if told the president, you he'd push back and say, yes, we can. i understood his personality. iic. i had to do it a couple of times because you have a choice. and since i did it so infrequently when i did it, i closed the doors. and you talk to you. he knew it was serious and he ok very seriously. but i did. i there was several dozençwe hae him not to do and i knew how to do that, which is avá5 say, this is a bad idea. this persofamily member, somebov

and three members of congress. can't i can't tell you the number of times i called sean hannity and said, look, you know, this is what we're talking about. dea. well, if if you can say that on the show tonight, then that will helphow people think. you have to learn how to talk to people in the language they you have to one of the one of the beauties, one of the keys to success at think that everything is their own we did. that's what you had to do with you couldn't walk in and tell him, you can't do this. he look at you go, are you the president? and the answer to that question, oft the president. okay. now, a couple of times you have to go inside. you have a choic a day or two, if our policy is x, weyou e thecean crashing on the shore. and if they if the waves hit the same tone a couple ofidea. and now we've changed. we're off on the right that's not by the way, that's

just good advice in life geney mean i do that with my wife. kids go over, tell mom, we can't do this. okay, that's great ia. since ths i'm sorry, it'ssorts. you just have to understand how people communicate, what language listen to, and how they react. there are certain people, especially presidents, have 't have a big ego. and if you try and go head to head with that too manyend up ot very effective, b, you ow more importantly, you won't get the right decisions. so we're going to go to q&ae's . you can start lining up. remember that we give priority are students. this ih it really fast, but i don't want to miss this question. there's event, and it's not only that we used it to advertise this event. i think you were showing me this this photo of you delivering the wse united states had been attacked, that the world trade center had been hit by anwas having an eve. in a school. in a school, an elemenryschool. it's an iconic image for a

reason because it's it's considered, you know, one of the worst moments in modern history. and obviously that you're in it and that you're in that moment was that the worst dayyour life in that job? and if not, what was do you remember when george bush threw up on the japanese■■2■z prime minister? that was not a good day. that was a bad day. trip to. that was bad day. okay. bill daley the best day of flip it. the best day was negative. when we were observing bin laden raid andpe helicopter began to go twirl and had to abort bob gates at one of the first meetings had said, he was secretary of defense, we

couldn't do this raid. and it's all here when the wheny carter was going to do the res', if it can go over g to go wrong and i saw that helicopter being that's where i thought oh shoot heroes but then a flip the total oppote t happened enormous success in the world the worst i think was oklahoma city bombing in the white house. that's when i our nation had changed. and it just was socomplete, an e happen really state, the city ofh akeating, l oklahoma city, the state of and that was i think it was a surge oak moment where you just shook, but itop t momee country.

i think t saw the economy gettig better and you had a■) chance to really make substantial progress on the national deficit, which eventually led to a balanced budget on a bipartisan basis. and jennifer, i thinth best likely for all of us is when you meetjé someone usually on the campaign trail or an event where you have worked on a particular policy and you have helped changeomeone's life like welfare to work, and they tell you their stther and the impac'd that that's really y public ser. and if you get the last word, remember we say our best day to remember we were blessed we didn't have any of those great tragedies because we had too many shootings and so forth, but nothing stands out, obviously, li city bombing, i don't remember any particularly great days as i reg feeling one time that things art fine. that when we went to the dmz, we

only had about 2 minutes to brief the president on what he was do. and if you watch it on video, do it sometime. it's fine. he was■fe hands with kim jong u.n. is supposed to step over the border, shake h korea, across the border, the borders of wall about that talk to ha he wrong way and i'm sitting in that in the in the glass doors watching the back of the president walk into north korea. and i i turn to the head of the secret service. d goes, chief, we don't donow? anything. i said, well, he goes, well, i forgot to tell you, but the deal we cut with the north koreans was we got the president in north korea, the interpreter, thend one secret service agent. if we send anybody else, we're invading northd he walked over d starts gesticulating at the north korean building. and then he comes back and they walk in in the south korean buildiot get a chance, but 2 boss, i got to ask you, to him, what what was that all about? goes, did you see that building?

didouee tt building? that was the ugliest building i walk. i said, look, kim, we got to go look at this building. look at tilding you folks have got the greatest piece of real estate in the world. you've got up here. you've got south down here. you could be doing resortsgolf courses, casinos, but not with a that is a fabulous building. let's go have a meeting. and walke a meeting. so you have a career. you have a career ahead that that was it almost your worst over here again. student that played name and yor and make sure that a mark. thank you. thank you. hi, i'm jared lowry in the business school graduating this june. thank you all for being here. so given all the talented folks and maybe folks with big egos that you worked with over your time in careers, i'm curious who you think was the best american

o never even ran for president but you think they should have won? oh, wow. that's a great question. that's a great, tough question. yeah, it really is. anyone want to take■ why don't we put a in that? boy, you may have some to. guys. a lot of goes to make sure we don't brands tlo■@ don't we go to the next question, put a pin that if it occurs to anybody. urface back. go aheadal graduate student in sociology. so you talk about mananggo that's on the confident side. but what about the other side, which is insecurit i re henry kissinger. he did a lotanagg nixon. and i wonder if chief of staff itt position to manage insecurity, whether it's.

so you ahee president. i think you have to convey a obviouy positive attitude and be very supportive of the president because it's very easy in his job, in this job, to get down and be down a lot, even thoughand challenge. but comes into this place because if i and easy to solve, somebody else is insolvent. take credit for it is bit of you've got to make sure that and and i think as rick said, move on with the staff, especially the young people. they read thhe see the press, they get down that mood can be very infectious in a white house and negativity. so you've g teverybody up and be with the president one on one that it can be a little different. but greet

the president when they come to e president optimistically and say, it's a great day. i't, even if it was a really lousy day, why? because you d't wa a pessimist as a president. you don't want to have a leader that says ■illwill get worse a't want a leaderwho are working int that their well, you want to lift them up. so i, i think it's an important motivating, positive action rather people to slip into despair. well, thank you. age of people who want to beat the president up. yeah, i do think, jennifer, the the question does i think raise the right pot that, you know, on west wing,hethat was so popular for many years, it did capture the white house 4ipretty wel except they had a

script. none of us had script. we had to kind of do itre here. but you do have it certainly notice comg highs where you hae good challenges and lows and you have to trysn't it? i used to tell people it's like they said, what's what's the job like? it's like any other job. but you have really good days, really bad days. and so the difference iss are tr than the ordinary good day and the bad days are that muchinary. it makes sense. hi. thank you. ■8k so much for coming. my name is noor and i'm a third year in the college. a strong conflict where you felt serving the action, serving the president as aed from serving the interests of the american people? and if so, how did y that? great question. i mean, i get asked a lot time because of the reputation that trump has never asked that i considered to be immoral. certainly never asked anything to be illegal. i'd never facenges.

we i talked to students here putting a plug in for my seminar, 330 on mondays. no, never, never put us in a positie that. but you did resign on january six. but you areary six is different. that's right. i mean, i was i wasn't chief of staff at the time. so you're absolutely right. i mean that. but that that's a there's a longer day. keep in mind, he was he's our boss, right? was something illegal and criminal on january six, whether orsomething impeachable, that's not this is not the place to have a debate. he failedn that particular day, did not meet my expectations as the man who was and if that's the case, you can't fix it. you can't make it better. you have a choice which is either stay and have people ve of this or leave in order. make it clear that you didn't. at's diffent thing than on a daily basis. you know, let's go do this. you know, let's let's do this i. no, no, never, nevervesa any of that. i don't know, you guys.

i doubt you did. so i think all three questions have been excellent so far. i think i thit'thing if you disagree on a policy and lose a discu think not to at all sound selfish think any of us frankly certainly speaking for myself, d felt that way, i think you'd be compelled to resign. i think president clknew that about me. i never even came close to him. yeah. yeah, but youi think go back tot question. you got a good answer for that? well, i don't know if it's a good answer, but i'm thinking who who is somebody in in my lifetime that didn't become president that could have no doubt my mind changed the course of history was that now obviously he ran and it butt

was the most impactful on changing that■b history in my lifetime with some get the chance to get the job i would have had. he■3 opinion. i'd thrgreat respect for, had te vision from inside the go been on the receiving end of presidential decisions and then was secretary of state. so we had great comments around the world in india, i was hi, my name's ella. i'm a first year in the college religious often impacted your relationship with presid■denand from your inside perspective, how did religion actually fl making? great question. i'd be glad to answer that. full disclosure, my wife is a methodist minister, so i come from strong faith. i cannot imagine doing the jobs that we did or that the

president doesit practicing some faith, because decisions have such great consequees tthat you want the cf having solicited counsel beyond that which would come from a on in the room. so the president i worked for president reagan, george h.w. bush andbush all practice their faith. they did a g probably the most disciplined at doing it. us would see every day called the president's dailbr top secr. everybody in washington wants to see it. it's a needse and we had the need to see it. the president had the need to see it. and i don't know what it was like for you guys, but anything on the president's desk, i would see before it went on the president's desk ud that

document and then i would greet the and i was very impressed that document was the. cover on it. everybody wants to see it. the president wou behind the resolute desk, open a drawer, ta o devotional read from ad fm it, take out theevotio bible, read something from it, close the eri believe he prayede ituld pick up the pdb and read so i think plays a big role. and in making tough decisions, trump is very different and somewhat the same. probably one of the least life, but was fascinated by it■5 managed to surround himself with a with a west wing ostly devout daily communicant roman catholics, including mean, six . and he was fascinated by people of faith and want to talk about faith all the time.

they used to invite me and larry kudlow, who a jewish convert to catholicism, to come in and sit on and then bill barr and pat cipollone again, folks who would go to daily mass and he would talk to us abouthy■ we disagree on the death penalty and how is it that some roman thics like myself and larry, are against the death penalty and some who go to church just as muche for the death penalty? i was fascinated by it. he us for the first time in history to have mass on ca■ú mass on the campus for the first time and the only time in history. and once we started doing that, they started having jewish servicndus the campus of the white house for the first time ever, from a least rson ever. so i know people criticized him for not knowing what second corinthians is. and i get that. but he was still he was encouraging to people ofwhich if you want to view a president

obama very pri as in those of you who know him about his religion, he he went he a strong believn faith. and it was, in my opinion, a big piece of his as he went through life and decision not out puttit out on his sleev any or for pre. and at that time, first lady hillary clinton w i were my wife and don and i were very well aware that hillary had been so active in 1áthe first methodist church in little rock president, been very active member, the choir, emmanuel baptist church in little rock. so we were their journey and thr depth of their think, did a nice job on your point. we would have at least four times a year, usually at the beginning of each season, abroaa

presidentialye gathering but of all faiths and so forth. it and that that was a way to send that right message i thought to the staff of the use. things perspective that was needed. well, try to get to a head, ple. my name is artur. i'm a first ye i college. i'm chief of staff mulvaney recently, like just now, you talked about how you resigne r january six. in an interview after that resignation, you said that donald trumps he had been eight months prior. in that vein, i'm curious to hear houeehe all of you, how yok your president's changed in terms of like personality or energy over your time on the job? i just i think he got tired of having hear and he started to replace the people who were honest with him and replaced him with people who who would, if he had an idea, it was

always, yes, it was president. let's have a rally on january six almost, because i think it's the best idea ever. dothink there was anybody giving the other side because i think the presidents are ultimately responsible for . they just are. but i think he was getting really, really bad advice. keep in mi the president is probably the single most isolated and insulatedrld. maybe the pope. i'm not sure. but you rely so heavily on your staff because you're no longer a normal humaneing don't interact with the real world. and you have to have staff that will be a honest with you and be your conduit to the outside world. and if they fail in th role, then you are at risk of making tremendous poor decisions. so not it was trump fault, staff's fault, obviously i's fault he's responsible at the end of the day for everything. but i do blame the staff forlote second half of the in the last days of the trump mini■r would say that obviously people get to the presidency, have long relations trips with lots of people, and

they on people for but it's and i remember with presidentjb the cabinet with him, he was constantly engaging people outside of thetem that he had a history with for their advice. great point. and presi same. but those people who suddenly as opposed to us who dealt with the president every day, they get ak their opinion on something. as i mentionedvery hard to get o really be honest the white house puts the call through everybody kind of goes in a meltdown and you're talking to the president, not bill you knew for 30 years, except the guy like mac in that role. so the the the from and people'e engaged with over the in my opin because because they dgiven whea

governor reminded we were on the elevator there and stuart took us up to the wrong floor got off. it was a huge room. first lady was having a reption there and this man ran over to the president of everybody kind of gravity that way. so. mr. president, cha cha cha. there are a lot of people here and president i used to be one. it is a bubble in isolation, i think, in terms of president in the six and a half years i was in the■z house, i think most presidents, you know, come to come to thenow, with experience for sure. great talent, great have to learn and change on the job. they all have to grow if they're going to be a successful president and they're human beings, we all do that. you do it as students and you

grow. and so i watched that with president clinton and he had that capacity to you. and i think it served him i'm a freshman in the college impeachment. two of you were chief of staff toand i'm curious about what the kind of day to day operation ads were like during those tes and how they differed from other parts of the presidency. , ll defer to mick because i was at the white house, don. he was in there. the impeach.so it broke the wes. that it is now going regular basis because the opposition rt to frustrate a president's agenda, you can take up of time and a lot of energy by doing an impeachment. d ke us to this day believe that our response to covid was negatively

impacted be that we were completely worn out and beaten up by the the impeachment. two things, by the way, perfect.d we had a press conference, the first press conference on■ vote on the senate impeachment took ■gpresser on covid because they were all covering the is that now my party willo ito them. they will do it to us, and it will become an ordinary tool. it wasstressful. i remember one time, this is not imeler report. i had had an idea of something i wanted to over thp th was consistent with the consistent with the president's agenda. and i went over to talouse coun. i said, look, i don't think i can do this on my own, but if you guys back me, i think we can do this. i think it's entire in line with whathede wantse to do over there. he looks figures make i am up to here with mueller. i don't have time for this --. so we didn't do it. i it's just it will drain a

white apart. and i think that happened to us. i don't kn was le in in the clinton white house, but my guess is it's a very stressful, intensee of time, even when you know what the result is going to be. and we knew what the resing to . there was no way that the senate was going to kick donald trump out of office.it so but even wit difficult. you can ask a question in 30 seconds d can gethesys much can have them. all right. thank you very much. so my question is, how does the role during season, if at all? well, i wasn't there. i before the+ reelection. but but especially theses year and nothing and i think you'll t biden it is aki mwh■ó

travels and they're usually out on average three or four days a we. now. in those eight states that matter. itates everything. my opinion. yeah,while. really. i think the biggest change is not aun there is social media. now, that is, you beckwith's and people get stuck on stupid really that's te in terms of the context of the the white house being able to function because so many people now use and adverbs more than they use nouns andh< verbs, 20 seconds make you want to say i was there of 2020. we had we we had just started the reelect campaign. we had data in january of 2020 when we believe that the democrat nominee was going to be going to win 40 states, including new jersey. d goes to show you how quickly things can change. well, this has been really

great. i appreciate the time a it was really interesting and really fun. and i thank all of you for coming out and a beautiful night in chicago. hope see you soon again at the next. i hope you speak the guys the same.