president ruto and president biden announced several infrastructure deals. from the wilson center, this is about one andgñ a half hours. >> ok. good morning, everyone. thank you so much for joining us today for this special conversation.

welcome to the wilson center. i am the director of the africa program here. we hope to address some of the most critical issues facing africa and that is why today we are especially honored to host this conversation on african sovereign wealth funds, part of our broader discussion. we are delighted to have this conversation today and to have our speakers joining us today who i will introduce later. unfortunately, one of our speakers in stuck in intrinsic do the bad weather we experienced yesterday so we hope he will be able to join us for this conversation. with that, let me turn it over to dr. mark green to give some

welcoming remarks. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you. i will be brief but building on what was said, we want to welcome all of you here. the wilson center as you may know is a unique institution in foreign policy. scholarship driven, congressionally chartered, fiercely independent, nonpartisan. th charter i think not only creates special opportunities for us but special obligations. i tell the team each day we should not duplicate what others are doing. if they are doing good work, let's reinforced we should look for openings, priorities, look for those topics and areas we believe can present important opportunities

and ways for us to add value and that is exactly why our partnership is so very important. broad capital management has been a leader in thinking about opportunities in africa. as many of you know, i am an africa guy by training and outlook. i spent much of my career in foreign policy working on opportunities in africa and i think we all agree that the great frustration is that not enough people see africa for what it is, a land of opportunity. we do not mean to be, but we are softly patronizing. we think of the african continent as being hopeless and helpless, instead of being a emerging part of global leadership. it is a of labor, ideas, and inspiration.

and private enterprise driven solutions. that is why the broad capital management form is so important because we explore these issues, issues of investment and economic opportunity. i wanted to make sure i took this opportunity to thank brown capital management, without their support we would note able to do this critical work and take up these opportunities. we are also excited to have with us today as a panelist dr. patrick who told me, the new public policy fellow here at wilson and he will be spending the next 12 months with us

driving our work on africa sovereign wealth funds. it is my pleasure to turn the floor over to someone who is no stranger to the wilson center, mike forster, ceo of brown capital management. he is well known to everyone here at wilson and has led us in so many ways for so■ long. today he is playing a different role, representing brown capital management. michael, thank you for all you have done for wilson and now in this new rule -- new role, thank you for being here. [applause] michael:ha on behalf of eddiekeithley and n capital enterprise i want to

thank all who have joined us in person and online for today's event. as mentioned, this program is a relaunch of the brown capital management africa forumwould ale wilson center africa program for their support in organizing and hosting today's event. as ambassador green mentioned, for substituting -- substantive su in africa. brown capital management is proud to support and partner with the wilson center to shine a development. the challenges and the for stronger mutually beneficial

u.s.-africa engagement. this forum has dedicated itself to unpacking the drivers of africa's ongoing transformation. this forum has continued to be a crucial platform for experts to find solutions to bolster sustainable development and build mutually beneficial trade and investment relations between

africa and the united states by 2050 africa's population will almost double with 2.5 billion people.

adequate infrastructure services are needed to keep up with the rapid growth in population investing in infrastructure projects in africa especially at the city level will require significant social and financial investments and additional sources of financing to meet the funding gap. the brown capital management africa forum understands that african sovereign wealth funds have the potential to contribute meaningfully towards financing infrastructure and fostering economic growth. we have renewed our commitment to further work on the african sovereign wealth fund series through the brown capital management africa forum here at the wilson center. the forum continues to be the premier platform focused on the needs challenges successes and priorities of african funds for that reason it is a recognized source of analysis on african so sovereign wealth funds and a trusted partner for government and fund managers to network and share peer learning experiences and lessons. i am excited to hear from our speakers today and i am also excited to be home. i will now turn it over.

[applause] oge onubogu: thank you so much, keith. really support from brown capital management and i would like to introduce dr. patrick utomi, who will be with us for the next 12 months as our brown capital management africa program public policy wok on deepening our understanding on african sovereign wealth funds, especially on the tool and the role they can play at the subnational level across the continent. a brief biography on dr. otomi, who for many who follow the■w political economy scene in nigeria or africa, he is no sthe is a recognized nigerian political economist and

management expert, a senior fellow of the institute of management consultants of nigeria and also a former presidential candidate in nigeria. he has served at the highest levels in public offices, the private sector, and academia. he served as an advisor to the president of nigeria and he was the first chief operating officer of volkswagen nigeria. he is a founder of the center for values and leadership a social enterprise organization dedicated to empowering nigerians to make lasting contributions in areas of business, public life, and civil society. he is also the first chair of the pan african private sector trade and investment committee path track. that is a unique advocacy platform supported by the afri

-- by the african bank that brings together african private sector and african policy makers to support extra and intra african trade investment and . we are delighted you have joined year with us here at the wilson center. >> i am pleased to be here. oge onubogu: for those just joining us, our second speaker is stuck in transit and should join us towards the end of the conversation, hopefully. you currently serve as the chair of path track, the first chair. this is a unique advocacy platform. we have not seen something like this on the continent before and it seeks bring african private sector and policymakers

together to support african trade. what role do you see sovereign wealth funds play in a platform like this? prof. utomi: thank you so much. i am actually nothe first chair, i am the first active chair. i had collaboration with the president of the african development bank. we created the africa business roundtable. that effort to bring private enterprise together with the work of the african development bank to drive policy choice on the continent did not work out as intended so the bank took initiative of creating an alternate platform. i got roped into it and the former president of the african

development was elected the first year but could not get going before he passed away so then i was appointed chairman of path track. path track seeks to play a very important role because as you mentioned earlier we tend to act in silos. we have people from the public sector who go to meetings and sign agreements that will be implemented by private sector without consulting private sector people at all so we have a chaotic policy arena. so to kind of bring some order,

the leadership of the multilateral agencies in africa thought that there was the need to get a private sector which could help make input into choice by african heads of state that can drive development on the continent. and so in that role, i have been associated with the survey that path african private sector to look at what challenges africa the most and how the private sector can stimulate counsel to political leaders in making choices that facilitate growth and development. in the area of sovereign wealth funds, what path track has tried to focus on is the fact that we

tend to overly look at central government, whereas subnationals who are closer to the people feel the pain and need a lot more. and that some attention to subnationals can truly do more for savings and growth. now there a couple of african countries that have quite interesting experiences with how this has evolved the trajectory . i will take nigeria and botswana as contrasting examples. many people forget that botswana between 1968 and 1980 was probably the fastest growing economy in the world, driven essentially by diamond export. but they recognized that natural resource belongs to all

generations of botsive today ano will be born in 300 years. so the strategy was to essentially create a future fund and that fund has been really the main sovereign wealth fund on the continent of africa. in nigeria we've traveled a , slightly differe first of all, what i like to call a dangerous alchemy, the convergence of soldiers and oil. it led a centralization of decision making in a way that different from the start of the country as a federation when nigeria started out as a

federation most of the■f development was driven from the subnational level and in fact there was competition between the subnationals on who would most bring progress to the people someone who this center knows very well was a big part of the center. he wrote a book with a colleague in the 1970's on modernization and nigeria and essentially tried to make the point there was an ethnocentric view of nigerians as warlords but what was really going on was nationality groups competing with each other about who would most bring progress to the people. they call it competitive communalism on the phenomenon was responsible for the dramatic growth between 1956 when

self-government came to nigeria and the mid-1960's. there was a centralizing of authority and oil became a major factor in that led to soldiers feeling they did not have to account to anybody, which led to a culture where the center hands out to the subnational's. thisia a lot in terms of growth.

oge onubogu: some will see that there is a challenge when it mes to the perceived challenge on the continent when it comes to raising capital investment foou see this changing? you have gone back in history and looked at what has happened in nigeria and other countries over time. do you see things changing on the continent in terms of mobilizing investment for infrastructure from within? prof. utomi: in some sense there is a weakening of the approach to infrastructure development on the continent. back in the 1950's there was an economist who became known for his mantra, capital is made at home. there is a tendency in the evolution of postcolonial africa

, the sense that we are too weak to provide infrastructure, capital should come from elsewhere to provide infrastructure. it spoils and understanding of our national savings can drive infrastructure. of course capital can come from elsewhere, but it is easier when the capital piggybacks on domestic capital. and the more important challenge is risking the engagement of foreign capital because there is an outside perception of risk that may not match reality. somebody needs to intervene in that regard. ■ghere the bank has tried to ply a role, probably invested more

than $60 billion in infrastructure development across the continent but the primary role is to facilitate investors from outside becoming more comfortable with africa risk. i think sovereign wealth funds have come to be a useful tool in that regard, if properly managed. because a big challenge with sovereign wealth fundsn't be ces will play out or how successive governments will manage them. that is why governance is so importanin this arena. i am sorry that peter is unable to be with us at this point because 1.i would like to make

about his tenure -- because one point i would like to make about his tenure, when he was elected governor,zz the state could hary pay salaries. schools were closed for two years. within a few years hehe saved billions. he would have explained it better. and when he stops being governor, the money disappeared very quickly. this is why governance is so important with these funds. oge onubogu: let's poll on that string -- pull on that string. we want to look at sovereign

wealth funds as a tool to drive infrastructure development at the subnational level, not only across the continent, it really subnational's at the city level and village level are the closest and have the most immediate impact on the daily lives of citizens on the continent. when we also look across the numbers in terms of population growth, 10 of the world's fastest growing urban centers will be on the african continent. so increasingly we want to see the subnational levels playing a much better role in trying to ensure that they can access investments in as we discussed , the new u.s. strategy towards africa also calls for a

rebalanc urban and as we saw last week with the visit of the kenyan president we also saw you know sort of the signing of the agreement between the mcc and the kenyan government to focus on nairobi an urban revitalization program in the city of nairobi. i'm wondering if you can expan'y this role. this is not something a lot of nationals engage with. howan they effectively access the space now to think about sovereign wealth funds for stabilization's and thinking about savings and investments in infrastructure development? prof. utomi: i think it is a very important watershed point we are going through. not only the number of examples showing but the call for

decentralization in the structure of politics in africa. in nigeria there is a lot of talk about it but capture the center as it is, even when they were advocates of decentralization they become less enamored of moving quickly do not track. we see that in spite of that tendency, subnational's are becoming more sensitive. two weeks ago the government of a state in nigeria held the summit and one thing the governor talked about was they were going to be saving a certain amount of money. this is interestingly a state that has come to a new sense of

itself because so many mineral deposits have been discovered they are. they just built a lithium processing plant with some foreign partners. there is a huge lithium deposit in that state. other mineral deposits, even crude oil has been found in significant portions in that state. i actually had a conversatio with the governor about a deliberate policy to save whatever comes into the s. i've taken advantage to invite him to come to the woodrow wilson center in july for the conference. he said he will come. so he can speak to how he is

trying to get this done in his state. i think that with this new kind of thinking, the competitive mindset■c■ will begin to returno how subnational's engage, and we may see stronger subnational sovereign wealth funds and then another point about cities, strong■/ cities, paul call ea, oxford economist who has run the center of african economies for , has begun to focus in the last couple of years on ocean facing cities and the opportunities there are. in 2017 he gave a talk in lagos

about this, the lagos state governor was sitting there and really got animated and invited him back a few months afterwards to speak more about that. there is a challenge of continuity. he developed big initiative around collier's thoughts on that. his successors might not have picked up on those ideas, but enough of the ideas are coming to people who are getting into leadership positions at the subnational levels that i think we are going to see a lot more activity. if they have help, and this is where the bank is trying to create a base for providing thie help, they have for example walked the track that the chief

economis here at the world bank coming from china has suggested to the latent comparative advantage where they can look at volume chains and invest in the bank, is trying to encourage industrial clusters at subnational levels and is providing support to make it happen. all of this infrastructure is critical and even more importantly, if africa does play in international trade is to grow at the moment, this is where real growth takes place, trade. if those policies can provide opportunities for aggregating across boundaries, it means that

significant investment in infrastructure to make the aggregating across boundaries possible, that can lead to significant growth in africa's international trade and this is where you must focus police secr works closely with the public sector. fact, i have a mantra that we need a tripartite approach to development. actually a conference in nairobi in 1985 was sponsored by the agakhan foundation to take a tripartite approach to development where the private sector, the public sector, and what they call back in those days private development agencies, the social enterprise sector, can cooperate in a manner that each sector drives what is more effective at doing with a clear common goal of development, i think that this philosophy will

help where we should be traveling to. oge onubogu: you have spoken about the bank and you also talked about the perceived risk of investment at the subnational level. i wonder if you could talk more about the perceived risk and real risk in investment in infrastructure development at the subnational level in africa. and if sovereign wealth funds could be seen as a tool to help de-risk private investment in infrastructure development, not only investment that might be driven from the continent, but thinking about the u.s. and other international actors, how sovereign wealth funds could possibly be seen as a tool to help de-risk private investment in infrastructure. prof. utomi: one of the big

challenges on the continent is accountability. a lot of effort is put into trying to hold national government accountable. sometimes not very successful. but they are is very little that is done regarding subnational level accountability. a good part of the resources that get filtered away happen at the subnational level. if the idea of a sovereign wealth fund brings more discipline into the thinking at the subnational level, part of what that does is enables those who are trying to facilitate de-risking. because risk is a matter of perception. if you are here in washington, you do not know what is going on

out there. there is an assumption that you're dealing with a bunch of bandits. a harvard scholar years ago wrote a book called tropical gangsters. so dealing with a bunch of tropical gangsters did -- determines how you prize a facility that is going in there for example. if the discipline of a sovereign wealth fund that is well managed, part of the international movement of sovereign wealth funds, it respects the rules and all of this, it brings more confidence. so not -- so then the subnational's can access capital

at more competitively priced rates on health development. one of the points i would like to make around this is that in many parts of the world, at least in some parts, infrastructure was significantly provided by the private sector. if you go to australia, much of the infrastructure, railroads, were provided by the mining companies. they became public later. if you look at the vast natural resources in africa, the private companies are not providing infrastructure as they did in australia. it shows there is a certain perception of risk that is problematic. how do we work through that?

i think istake place, as rules played by multilateral's on the continent increase and the perception of risk, a couple of years ago i was a guest of the governor of australia, traveling around the continent. i visited the g20 infrastructure hub in melbourne. part of the reason they were set up was that they go in and help advise local infrastructure regulatory agencies on w facilin infrastructure in their countries.

they told me they were very disappointed in trying to deal with some of the agencies in africa who did not show enough interest or understanding of the fact that a good deal of infrastructure comes now from private sector provisioning. i joked about visiting the philippines in 1998, the joke was the philippines; is a sick man of asia, but i nearly went deaf because of all the banging away from construction. and i said this sick man manages to find money. oge onubogu: i just want to let the audience know we can start

getting questions ready now. several questions have come in from the thoughts you have laid out. before he turned to the audience for questions, i want to address the elephant in the room when it comes to sovereign wealth funds, the question of governance. ultimately at the end of the day the funds will be managed by the government. so for many, i guess that risk of the lack of sustainability, there is a concern, a real concern, that many have. what are some or recommendations when we look at sovereign wealth funds and how this could be managed by different governments to ensure sustainability? prof. utomi: i think one of the first things that those who set up such funds should think about

is of governance systems that essentially make the people the owners. [indiscernible] there is a structure of governance in which elements in society, again it comes back to my tripartite approach whether it's from social enterprise, private sector, with enough balance, do you have checks, balances in how how the governance takes place, but very importantly that the very philosophy of sovereign wealth fund is anchored on a clear philosophy of the future, of where we can go with sustainable development performance.

i give an example. 25 years ago, talking■ about te philippines, southeast asia, i was visiting the philippines and at the university of asia and i found they had a monthly business dinner withders of message -- of business. they bring private and public sector people together and i thought that was a good idea so i borrowed it, i stole it. i started at the lagos business school a monthly breakfast briefing session. one u.s. ambassador arrived in early 2000 and i ran into him somewhere and he

said, my predecessor left a note that the breakfast briefing session at your school is a must attend. it's the only event in nigeria that starts on time and ends on time. [laughter] so the briefing breakfast session i took away from the philippines of course changed its tune was designed to provide part of that -- somebody warned me about something [laughter] the meeting was designed to

provide a context that people who are pillars of the economy can engage in. so one of them i was projecting what we should be doing, he normally made a five-minute comment, the program was one hour. one guest was the imf director and i said nigeria should not take in more than $30 a barrel revenue from crude oil into the [indiscernible] account. everything above that up until

$50, if you go■' to a stabilization fund so that if oil prices to nine dollars like they dated 1998, you could keep the budget running on30 because you can draw from the stabilization fund. everything above $50 should go to a future fund. a so-called sovereign wealth fund. the imf gentleman said, thinking like that, you do not need me here. people should be able to take that kind of advice and work from it. but what was interesting is when i was making those proposals come at the state governors were very upset, very upset with me. i was part of the team that put some of the policy framework for

the government of legos at the time in place and the commissioner for finance, minister of finance today, came to me and said how can you be encouraging them to take our money? it is taking away the money of the state. i said, come on. you should know that it is like a mutual fund. lagos state proportion in that saved money will always be and if you can draw on the fact tha3 you have that reserve, you can use it to strengthen your capacity to actually borrow if you can implement it, implement the money that you've borrowed in such a way that it will allow growth, it will strengthen your financial system. and he kind of was like, ok, but

they are taking our money. now had the president not responded to those pressures and created the so-called excess crude account, nigeria would have run into a lot of trouble in 2008 when the global financial crisis hit. that excess crude account was said if it can -- was a significant buffer for nigeria. if we can take that philosophy and institutionalize it in thinking around the creation of sovereign wealth funds, that philosophy can drive some stability in the system and help sovereign wealth funds be a major anchor for discipline and executing development growth strategies. oge onubogu: thank you so much.

you have brought up examples in history to address some of the questions and thoughts we have around sovereign wealth funds and utility at the subnational level. i want to turned it over to the audience to see if we have any questions from the audience. questions or comments. if you have a question, my colleagues are the sides with microphones. identify yourself and your affiliation, then ask your question. and please, i ask that you keep your question brief. thank you. there is one question at the back. hold on, let us take the gentleman at the back first. thank you. >> good morning. can you speak to ability of sovereign wealth funds to exit out of investment in africa as it relates to liquidity issues

when that happens? oge onubogu: thank you very much. we will take that questions first. you are taking youake your secos well. >> hello. my name is samuel leah. i am university. my question is, based on your understanding, how could nigeria get rid of corruption when it is from the top to the bottom? what would be the cure? oge onubogu: professor, do you want to take those two questions? prof. utomi: all right. liquidity is such an important part of the challenge in managing sovereign wealth fund. and the skills of the managers are really important in this regard.

when managers are not skilled enough, they can run into liquidity problems. this is why meetings such as brown capital were created, to help in strengthening one another. in the necessary skills for managing sovereign wealth funds. because it is given to conservative approaches to preserve, secure that future, it is very easy to run into liquidity challenge in terms of investments that they go into. but i do think that if they have funded appropriately in the managers are skilled enough, they can deal with liquidity

issues a lot better. i think that part of the challenge that most of these funds may face is that the tendency to appoint cronies to run government agencies will lead us to having people not appropriately skilled for managing those challenges and that's really what we have to watch. that's part of the whole governance operators things. that is why part of the governance process must be to insist that those who are appointed to run these agencies have the skills to manage them well. unfortunately, what has happened, nigerianprobably tell.

today in nigeria people do not believe you need any skills to do anything. what is capacity? just appoint me. so we really need to manage that. [laughter] oge onubogu: this gentleman had the question on corruption. prof. utomi: yes. the big elephant in the room. i have a mantra. everyone around me has heard it 1000 times. value shapes human progress. people make light of the cost of corrtiit is very, very costly fy society.

extremely costly. you cannot predict the outcome of the transaction of people can in a discretionary manner act in which way. this president but corruption matters and it is not just about catching the thief.

it is about systems that even prevent you from thinking about being corrupt. it's about committed citizenship that says you can't do that and get away with it. so people are blowing whistles all over the place. it is about ensuring people are not led into temptation. what do i mean by that? if you wage that doesn't actually kend you give him a uniform, you are really giving him the right to bully anybody who comes by his way.

at our school, ethics is central. whatever you study, ethics is central. some people commend say, this is extortion. it is like a man put a gun to your head and says your money or your life and you say i do not believe in giving people what does not belong to them, so shoot me. [laughter] so we have to create the conditions that make it easier. one reason i enjoyed reading the book the fix is about how countries dealt with peculiarly

challenging problems. how did singapore get rid of corruption? i traveled a bit in hong kong. why did the hongg kong police go from being very corrupt to being an amazing police force? i believe there are enough examples we can implement to reduce corruption anywhere in the world, including in nigeria. oge onubogu: thank you very much, professor. we have quite a number of, ok. let's take this first. the gentleman here and then the gentleman with the hat and then we will come back for the next round of questions. >> thank you. my name is matt. journalism. i have a quick question for my brother pat.

whenever i hear about wealth, what comes to mind is access to that wealth. what comes to my mind after that is the differential access to that wealth. and what finally comes to my mind after that is conflict. because whether it is sovereign wealth or any wealth at all that is supposed to be for the people, there is differential access. what do we put into this establishment of sovereign wealth that will reduce the tendency for conflict? the second part is i know you were first a journalist before you became a political economist. i am into peace journalism now. what do we do as journalists where we have conflicts from these areas to try to mediate

and bring about peace and that conflict area? thank you, sir. oge onubogu: thank you so much. two questions in one. do you want to take those first before we go to the next round? prof. utomi: thank you. one of t that fascinates me, matt and i were colleagues in grad school in indiana in the late 1970's. one thing that fascinates me about the american example is opportunity and access and conflict.

i find that part of the that in spite of everything, i mean it is not a perfect society , conflict is reduced in america, is that opportunity beckons. coming to grad school here in 1978, we were lucky if we had a friend who could make some money driving a taxi. [laughter] the first warning i got arriving in annapolis was to be careful driving through martinsville. but i come to visit chicago and i was watching television and i was not sure if i was in chicago or lagos because the anchor had

a nigeria name. all that access opens up opportunity to people for the interest of all. the reason access is open, this is talent, the economy needs talent. so all the years we were in grad school here in the united states, this i believe tends to reduce conflict, when people can hope, aspire, and actually achieve what they aspire to. i think that the challenge is really in how people perceive that it helps open up opportunity.

a couple of years at columbia university, economists wrote an imf working paper about 2003 that basically if they didn't have a government. if you just collected revenues, it would be those resources. that created an approach to distributing revenue. ■veverybody gets a check, so on

and so forth. i invited a variant of that thought, he was then came to columbia and now he is an editor . they put him on television. again i borrowed a lot, i

brought him to lagos and i put him on tv. don't worry about how the oil money is spent. the one that should be done in nigeria should essentially send out a small amount of money to all citizens and say, this is the share of oil revenues. we have taxed you already at 92%. this is what is le athe effect y different. i think the conflict that comes from perception of ownership, so

anyway, nigerian journalists recently, i was in nigeria two weeks ago and i recorded to#:rvw in which i basically worried about the fact that we had lost, out of the of all that, it seems to be available to be bought. they are not playing that role that we idealize today should play.

i actually forced a shortfall in nigeria from my writing. the so-called controversy. they don't seem to have that kind of responsibility anymore. everybody is celebrating journalism. you, the reporter, are a celebrity, column writer, all of that. please come back and[laughter]

oftentimes, the idea of a sovereign wealth fund, if you look at the african sovereign fund, they are up to $20 billion or something like that. my question is how can african governments invest in infrastructure in africa?

toward the twilight of the obama administration. where there any other reaches of the world that had that kind of initiative? >> thank you, sir. while you are thinking on that, let's take the question in front. >> thank you for that.

we have been hosting the2 years. what i understand over the years , we have 150 sovereign wealth funds. even though i attended the meeting, the african sovereign wealth funds are presented to 5% of the world. you have to have a natural resources in orderign wealth fue out of the window.

the question is the question of the state of djibouti. what forces that will encourage the formation of the sovereign wealth fund that will enrich human resources and what have you. this has been puzzling me over the last 40 years. don't ask me when because i will not answer that question. >> thank you very much, sir. prof. utomi: thank you. i think that the first question about the size of the african wealth fund being so small and what can be done to support

infrastructure and development, the work that was done here in washington around that. catch up on the way things are in that. there was the lighting of africa initiative. it is a shifting appetite. it tends to affect what gets done. i think that the united states can provide significant

leadership and i hear that some things are popping up in some areas in policy. i have not seen the strong building up of that then secretary of state and what his colleagues were working on. one needs to build a coalition of the interested to create a sense of urgency around those. what has happened is that as

efforts have shifted where one-way humanitarian in a world full of tragedies right now, it is suffering. it has not managed to gain attraction. let us look at our planet and the way it is going. to be able to assess the reasonableness of getting structure going.

deal of where this planet will be looking 50 years from now africa. ensuring that the possibilities flower in benefits the whole planet today. this is part of what is happening with the dominant narrative. i had a pleasure a few weeks ago of being at a meeting. it was a brookings initiative china and the u.s.

there was some frustration at that meeting about the narrative the nature of domestic politics can push people that should not necessarily reflect the realities that it would engender. i made a small contribution to this. politics is politics. the reality is there. china and the u.s..

but academia, knowledgeable civil society, what is it doing to shape a different narrative? it is the same thing in africa. social enterprise intellectual sector to create a narrative on africa. this is a big challenge. >> the questionthe force, as yo. prof. utomi: ok. think the key is good governance.

they understand that sovereign wealth funds, many of the political actors, they are focused on power and the benefits of capture. so the new kind of politics, what are citizens doing? i think it is a very critical role. it is the ■ódiaspora. if you look at the last century, japan, the rule of the diaspora.

then you look at india rising. it needs to do a lot more to shape the way the continent makes its choices. >> thank you, sir. we have two questions. >>ery much. i'm a recent graduate from johns hopkins. my question is on government. i want to talkqt about the abuse of the sovereign wealth funds in africa. we have been funding infrastructure and it is not sustainable.

do you think it should move and enshrine them in the constitution? the second west user of the sovereign wealth funds. as a collateral for debt. there has been so much abuse. do you think african countries should look to enshrine in the govern to prevent it from abusing it? >> good afternoon, professor. i am working with the finance corporation.

focusing on investing in the private sector players so the manufacturers that would implement these infrastructure goals. >> well, there is a sense in which sometimes in africa every problem is faced by the constitution. the constitution is a living document. it is one of my great fascinations with the united states constitution is how small it is. it has been around for so long.

i would like to say that i once challenged the thinking of somebody's work. british historian, western power. it makes a statement that a meeting of the u.s. constitution is probably the greatest effort of institution building in history. after many, i came back to agreeing that they were quite right. h of the matter is that

the constitution is as good as the people who implement the constitution. you can write anything you want into the constitution. there are countries that have several conventions that shape the way they act. they tend to act appropriately. i think that what matters is trying to build a culture. a culture that supports a certain way of thinking and acting. if the people who know the culture, i think there is

someing that the sovereign wealth fund will thrive from how well we educate people about the value they bring and how those people ultimately hold it accountable. on the question about investing in the private sector, i do believe that that is very important. the private sector is so important. african politicians. the private sector is too weak. that is why government must step in. i'm not going to say that government has no place in the private sector. no.

in fact, during the conversations on structural adjustment. they tried to bring together african academics. they got the finance minister and one academic or so from each country. they all converged in nairobi. the onthreed to was that structural adjustment will mean smaller government because there is such an important rule in certain areas for certain government.

investing in a major weakness and therefore to build up the private sector. years ago, a book title as a missionary. the point of that book was to talk about the role in creating start ups. somehow, one of the things i suggested was that there are many people who say private sector and then eat out of the hands of the government.

they are connected to people in power. probably i'm not the biggest music fan. the businessmen. it provides independent action. thank you. >> thank you very much. i can take just one more question.

>> good afternoon. i work for a nonprofit in new york that advocates for the education of the girl child in africa. i must say i've really enjoyed this discussion, but looking at how we can bring iplatform. take for instance, how does the african union, how can we bring the african union into discussion? i would think that african economies which are being run by presidents in africa, we have to start inking of a way to get them involved in this type of discussion.

to get involved. that way, even if we are not sure that the presidents of these countries are going to buy into these kind of discussions. how we might get some interest from a few of them that are interested in this. thank you. >> if i could just chime in. thank you so much for that comment. at the africa forum, we work very closely in d.c., so they engage in our conversation and the ambassador is probably tuning and online for this discussion.

this relationship with the african diplomatic corps. they are one of our biggestterse conversations. prof. utomi: i think one of the marching orders i have from her is to work on this conference. >> we will talk about that. [laughter] prof. utomi: but you know, part of the work is essentially around that.

this is through the commissioner or investment. i'm actually supposed to go to the summit in july to make a presentation. as part of that. i think that is important to engage more and i hope that i will make a difference. >> sir, we are now at time. i cannot take anymore west gins, but i'm sure we might have a few more minutes afterwards to chit chat the hallway. i can't take any more questions.

i want to thank you so much for your participation in this conversation and i'm delighted that we will have you with us for the next 12 months as we dive into this conversation on sovereign wealth and bring back actors that engaged on this conversation. i think there is so much you have given us to think about as we move forward and really thinking about how this plays out at the sub-national level. pointed out in your comments, some of the greatest foreign li challenges we face moving forward play out at the subnational level, how are governments equipped to really handle this effectively? please everyone join me in thanking him. [applause] i would also encourage you all to please check out our website. the africa program section.

for information on the brown capital management africa forum and publications we have had over time onthank you so much ae enjoy the rest of your day. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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