russia. this is 50 >> good afternoon welcome to hudson instituo i'm a senior few on europe it is my pleasure tor welcome to united state senator to ourhe great state

of new hampshire jeanne shaheenx and from north carolina thom tillis. you might meet when it what brings together a republican from the south and a democrat from new that nato. at least in this case. senator shaheen■ and senator tillis are the senate nato observers group which was established in 1997 in anticipation of the czech republic joining the alliance president clinton just markedrye alliance through a major speech in progress past march. the lap somewhat and 2000, 2007 in particular but was reestablished based in senator h russia's intervention crimea ing here it's a pleasure to have you at hudson. be with you. >> we are here together an au weeks ahead of

the washington summit which marked 75 years of nato. it's not just going to be a celebratory moment l done in the present going for perhaps senator shaheen the spigot with you. he was in tow making final purpose for the nato summit i saw on his meeting with secretary blinken was also meeting with members in the senate. he headed up■1 after meeting wih prime minister trudeau he is back in town today how do you think we are run-up to the washington summit how prepared is the alliance and positioned for meeting? >> the war in ukraine really nat needs to do it order to continue to be t greatest defense and military alliance in history. in our meeting with secretary-general he talked thre

first was deterrence and defense goal pointed o 23 of the 32 nato members have reached 13% of gdp investment in military spending which is critical as we think about the threat we are facing from vladimir putin and russia but also china and other he also talked about the importance of■ñ recommitting all nato members to unprovoked war against russia. also talked about the importance of continuing to bring in the end of pacific countries new zealand, japan, south korea and australia who have been very another line of defense against china i. those are three goals. i would add one to is to fully implement women peace and security agenda the u.s. has

been working on since 2017. were the first country toir gislatively pass that agenda. it is very important to ensure women are at the conflict areas and in decision-making. >> also featured promintly i5r the u and senator tillis sent tt can you reveal from your conver just amongst us the three of us here, sir. >> i can to, kidding. [laughter] first off i want to thank jane is 2018 jane had the vision to approach me to talk about reestablishing nato observer group that have been dormant as yo■u while.now it was probably the right time to start it. i monitored part of the leadership and it is been very, very

made it clear he is being here andahgton d.c.■o:#■j it was excited about the message of members that are at talk about coming out of the summit china was substantial way our data partners and allies threat. family ahead you have to think about nato and a global conte w could no longer think about nato being an entity that deals with

threats coming from europe and t very clear. we are now down to single digitr 2% margin that is a huge milestone. but they all have to get on board i like the fact he went to canada. he conveyed the message our friends to the north need t g hs in ukraine.hing positive coming out of this experience is nato has been we failed a stress test. nato alliance is struggling to resupply ukraine and imagine if that had been a nato allyow to prosecute against the■i aggresse active vladimir putin. by think

thank you secretary for a decade of support to extraordinary job >> i would echo that actually. one of the things tom and i are working o is to try to award the congressional gold medal to secretary-general stoltenberg is an amazing ability to get that nato alliance together make it stronger but thank you for your comments of the great things it's a bipartisan partnership. tom and i are worng closely together on everything nato. and we have bipartisan support an t senate and that is what makes it work. >> we are lucky to top of nato pretty formidable i suspect we are close to

announcing the coming days, weeks perhaps at the summit and on the military■l side we are lucky to have t coms om mdd i think of these as a three-part series first being at the madrid doing away with a 2010 vision of russia a partner adapting a new family of plans. i think the washington has to be about that strategic vision and those being resourced the capabilities targets to make the alliance i with you why nato does have that or has thatop it's because of the tenacity nato has time to gather its wits and build up its

capabilities. ber of the alliance. to quote a letter you and senator shaheen spearheaded an april we believe ukraine should be realistic path to nato membership went nato alliance members agreeíz met thd requirements for membership.;5is components we expect this will be. >> d it will be a topic most the on. how do you think we areoing and that conversation with the ukrainians and offering them a realistic pathway?] >> of guide you right to the point of why we are here.only he courage, the commitment and the tenacity and sacri people. . remember public reporting classified reporting at the of russia took the massive troops they had at the border to have air superiority within a matter of a couple of

days they were going to conol whatever ground they wanted to and ukraine within a couple of weeks. ukra d anything except the will to be free to actually withstand that now were trying to resupply so t leadership and people have given their blood and treasure at home to really get us to this point. we clearly want to any freedom loving nation wants to join nato. want to provide a path by think ukraine to their deserve a look. invaded, we should not get so upsetith nato to forget we have to be war that we need to make it very clear that they ced doing. plan for■ reform that need to be in place.

all those sorts of this and god bless them for doing and the middle of a war. the agenda sine february 2 years ago. they areing to address the issues that would be requirements to be considered for un and nato memberships. so continue doing that. once the nato sum commitment to considering that. to summit all about putin's suce current situation. clearly will have to gethrough t things right. defense cooperation agreements, those sort of things. certainty ukraine is at a better commission at the intervening time is critically impntson we r together was to make it very clear the ukrainian ppleencredi, skills, adaptabilityer for that

reason we will be welcoming future. across the counter programming the summit and one way or another to try to spoil this moment in d.c.oint on■al security agreement the president announced with ukraine at the g7 constitutes that bridge to membership? is that enough of a deliverable ■ías on. the pieces along the way. they're obviously look at negotiating other bilateral security agreements of nato as well. anything we can to try to reassure not just but our other allies and point out to our adv there to support ukraine in this war is really important. that is bilateral security agreement is all about.

>> both raise the indo pacific i know says in the press conference secretary do a secretary pulling in just the other day to emphasize for australia, korea and japan. to stay on the lr wrote. jeanne shaheen you talked about levels of the indo at the summit they participate in madrid and now will be back at washington. perhaps to keep the justification alive present what do you eis concrete deliverables potentially looking like? >> i was just in the endf marchh meer senate. with south koreatruck me on that trip was how closely our allies in the end of pacific are watching what happens in

ukraine. because they understand it is not just our allies that are concerned about that war. not just europe concerned about it. but she and adversaries are also watching. vladimir putin thanks he wait us out. saw north korea this week. that supports him and his fight in ukraine.nue to be supportive. it is very important for us to what happens in ukraine and what happens pacific w adversaries are watching very closely. i think one of the deliverables for the endo pacific is to continue to see the is going to be there for ukraine. because that m t in

territorial waters in the endo pa >> senator tillis same question to you. >> putin's%i was a mbe ago who is talking about putin is only in ukraine because he is worried about future nato aggression. too that member of congress you may want to go bac and what's really happening here. if putin's only secure of sovereign territory whynt with h korea? it seems to be north korea and china are desperately wanting success in ukraine.íf havoc in the endo pacific region.fn■j

other nations under the region understand that. the american people and m that. we are playing athree malign acy you could throw a rod in their who would like nothing more freight in our as a failure in ukraine and run up the score for moldova and other parts of europe and do wt do toe havoc in the endo pacific. this is not hysterical talk fliy moves these countries are making. so we need to make it very clear. in ipv6 ip 10 i think it is critically important. comments. we are a global alliance with the regional priorities. where we are today and we need to build on

i know there is that nato alliance but we have to understand the threat to democracy is ar to defend against it. >> to your point the iranian drones are regularly attacking the eastern flank of ukraine. iran has proven hugely important facilitating russia's attack on uk defenses. attempts to adopt attacking soldiers on the front line. that is not to be underestimated from iranian drones are china's defense industrial base. it seems like it's an outright alliance forming in eurasia destroy our alliance and >> want to do to the world what they have done to their people. ave these conversations. it is not about the north korean

people. it is about the leaderships who are bent on destroying democracy and destroying the lives of our popopulations the weight they he their own.absolutely. what we are seeing now butter putin. >> at we are seeing now butter putin vietnam. he is trying to build out that group of adversaries he has put together to support him in ukraine. i was really pleed that we were in vietnam and marcho how positive the vietnamese leadership was about states. coordinate of

partnership with the u.s. they were very proud of and talked about. make no mistake as tom says we are in t fight around the world for those countries who want to see control over their own destinies. who want to see their people free. you want free economies. want ton territorial waters without being deterred, without having china. we have got to continue this fight globallyh9. >> a foot focus is loss of that takes place between these actors. of 152 orth korea sending to russia what are north koreans getting a return they're not free services they're offering. from upgrading potential reentry vehicles to other systems of

concern to soul on the ice systems potentially. the statement applies to iran o■ course which would've upgraded some of its own systems. jerusalem as i run marches towards a nuclear for guardians all these actors who do us reference the burnt sharing the report 23 of the 32 allies have hit the 2% mar gdp i will" and minister trudeau in which you wrote we are concerned most recent projections indicate it will not reach to preset decade. that litters cosigned by quite a few members of the senate. i saw. i have to confess the canadians seem to be the one country characterizing it too■q strongl. do not have planes hit the 2%

what thom tillis will start the usage of a wonderful grin on >> i have to laugh i guess since his neighbor it makes little more awkward. [laughter] i am personally offended the concept of the midst of these concept in ukraine theé leadership of canada think it is okay to go ae before canada is a leading democratic. nation. they are the our history is intrinsically linked. when i am going to other countries and asking them to do their fair share, do not comes that more often than what about your neighbor to the north? candidate needs to lead by example with the canadian people need toand

exposing their population to additional threats this is about r canada. by knowingly failing to meet the 2% goal they think someone else slack. tell everyone i consideo like i consider my family. i have brothers sisters we always have it argument. i've got one sister probably not vote for me if she lived in north carolina. but my sister knows that be there. we've got other people in this family put other nations in this family that will benefit spirit our efit if they go to the canadian people and understand why it io critically important for a nation of the stature of canada to lead byah example. opinion.an that i goto >> it is also distressing

candidates notav get to the 2%. last week we celebrated the 80th anniversary of■ t■ d-day. d got a chance to go to that. it was so mg to see the world war ii veterans who had risked everything on the beaches of omaha and utah and normandy to fight for democracy. understood what was at stake. candidate was a partner in that. prime minister trudeau was there for that celebration. it was such a an emotional reminder of just how important it is we have anliancd warnd the fight against the nazis. the fact that canada is not

picking up their fair share is disappointing for a country that has been committed to democracy r sh time.>> on the finer pointe jean and i, i have no d workings we can to secure an exit suppore ukraine effort. you that when we have those discussions going forward. i believe will ultimately be successful. people in congress saying i hear you saying you wants to allocate more money but what can that may be making it a priority for the ukrainian effort that is a short term objective the long-term objective is to strengthen thelr to sustain ukraine and sustain american support for the nato alliance by just getting these distractions off the table.

>> and senator shaheen since you mentioned d-day a plug the two n ms and which all of our viewers n connecting the battles ragingkhf the confident and normandy back inld urge you all to look at that on the pardon of burnett sharing i would add financial pressures are obviously growing on the alliance. just yesterday the european commission issued formal over it runs against the ninth of itsv$ belgians who are with canada under the as well as others like for the 2% threshold i worried the germans having emptied out a special fund to reach 2% they do not want to come to washington and embarrass president biden is a grand moment5 years of native once the fund runs dry in

on the trajectory question up for now they trajectory is good adequate yet which is why i thought you put it very nicely in your biden 2% should be the floor at e ceiling for defense spending. >> it really reaffirmed that should be the floor not the ceiling. i think it is also recognize the countries who are spending overe poland and has who are spending more who recognize very directly the threat from russia. my conversations with leaders in many of those countriery clear f putin is sucful i he is coming for the baltic coming for poland, romania,at is at stake.

>> i woul2 jus military bouncer russia and nato ■w■dlooks like it swings dramatically in our favor but in practice a lot of our assets are not that close to russia. two heavy armiesnd turkey on the near or russian abroad. a lot of other heavyor including american forces are in the indo pacif example. it is really imporveryone recog% is probably where we need to be if more for some of ■& ne saints of the bigger economies. but senator shaheen you said romania i should say is a think re here in washington the remaining is a love you very much they are very grateful you cap pioneered this requirement for a black c strategynk you woh senator romney again a bipartisan effort on yourbehalf. the romanian foreign minister

beer tomorrow for an event■ strategy you and senator romney has urge to put together? >> the bla c we have seen in this war in■ú important part of the think we r we saw when putin cut off the grain spl from ukraine it affected the global food supply just how important a black c is. legislation that senator romney and i worked on is all abith the strategy to better support the countries in the black searegio. and a number of them are democracies. we have some countries like■ georgia that have been aspiring democracies where the people ofy they want to join the eat you they it we've got the leadership

in georgia that has been more and more@ towards autocracy. towards apartment with russia which is reall h understand and give it russia occupies 20% of their territos r us to have a strategy that recognizes the importance of that region region as thefuture. hopefully in most of them are going to looking west toward the eu, towards nato. >> it seems senator the population is overtly pro- americanhe leadershi is taking a slightly different tax are we handling this well as thn georgia be? >> i have legislation that is again bipartisan with the chair and ranking member of foreign relations committee and the

appropriations that deals with funding our foreignp. what we would do is put in placs who have been involved with foreign agents law which is a law that is basically really hat russia has done. as we talked to georgia, our own national democratic institute iri republican institute who have done such good work in georgia tell us they are not going to be able to operate their under this law. it would put in place sanctions for those people who hav been involved in doing that law. that would restrict travel. we want to make it clear to the

current leaders of the governme there there are consequences for what they are doing. we have had a really good relationships between our military and the military in■9 georgia really since they became independent. we want to make it clear what's xz impact on those relationships a" well. the legislation has been introduced as ajjul it also got adopted on the defense bill services committee. we are hopeful that we'll send a very strong message to the leadership in georgia that there are consequences for what they are doing it will have an■h impt on the ae t■t states. in the relationships in ways thiskm be to the

benefit of the leadership. especially when their population overwhelmingly wants to look west. once been part of the eu. looks at it is very is very positive towards the united states. senator tillis you've said a few times which took a glo perspective from the washington summit. it seems like we do would like u address that ishybrid warfare os of the u.s. and its partners their images coming to us in the south china sea port chinese coast guard or chinese vessels are all ramming and harassing filipino resupply missions and in europe i would say as putin l systemsav in an large part destroyed in it seems we go to the top end of the escalatory lrling and then r

end a lot of hybrid attacks against our partners and allies. a heavenly in prague a few weeks ago it during the informal ministerial. a lot of the former ministers )ñ script and talked about at length the arson attack across the alliance infrastructe cables, assassinations, removing between his stony and russian student one example. cetera.■/ with a hybrid style of aggression asn went vladimir putin seemingly or disease moves against >> is why i was saying we have global mutual defense with difft regional priorities. i don't think you mentioned the space domain. let's not forget what russia has

suggested. russia talked about the space domain out of their malign acimplications. if you add that to it and you domainn almost guerrilla war tactics there putting in place. the threads are global they have to be taken seriously must be a coordinated global response to freedom loving nations are of the nato it's difficult for me too understand that any member of topic on congress is picked on a couple nato it's difficult for me too understand why anybody thanks the threat to china is somehow contained in the area of responsibility. china is thinking globally china is acting globay■ russia is

acting globally. they have created malignoss thee including in this hemisphere we have to get smartem what they are doing a number two, with the build the so they clearly understand there wi i believe they think they can move in certain areas, implement certain tactics and more or less get a pass. we have to be thinking ahead of those threatsg sure they understand there can be a consequence no matter how they through conventional, or hybri >> maybe senator shaheen one element extenhe you. china support for russia atinise public with an dramatic ways in recent weeks and months i keep the talking .90% of russia mile machine-tool come themm

that seems as though the administration would really like the european to push back on the chinese on this front. th over china with economic relationships. and in those conversation the sense i get is europeans are more than willing to go tobeijif chinese s move on to the next bilateral issue in the relationship and to the next file the need to address and so on forth. the approach for that is necessary is theur to the chinese and say you were support for russia sowing the se europe. you need to put this at the centerpiece of the relationship with china and really let them know the so-called dual use items empowering russia to rebuild its war machine much ic going to be a major problem for them. do youense that can happen in at your conversation with the europeans are there?

>> i think the leadership in moe understand the threat from china. i think the public in europe is not there yet. we really need an education we need to continue to raise these issues china that the leadership in europe needs to raise with her o pli as well to be able to talk about as you point out it's not just a military it's also an economic threat. it's a diplomatic detritus of belts and road initiative has allowed them to invest in countries all over the world a . i remember a number of years ago talking to the then prime minister of greece he was talking about one of their ports

about the chinese investment in the port saying we came into the united states. you said you could not help us. we needed to get this done and the chinese were there with their mey it is something we've to address across all sectors not just military. our s really critical. our diplomatic power what we've mbassadors being held up in congress because the effort of certain senators is to keep anything from happening in the administration.al security e we have got to look how we can t economically. one of thing the previous administration was a better awareness of the

terrace and the trade imbalance china was engaged in was having on the united states. and w need to recognize that. also as you are talking aboutt■i the threat and space and i could not agree moreith tom talking about the space race the snout■k space it is about whether space is going to be militarized in a way that will affect our national security. we talk about cyber but cyber is about disinformation. one of the biggest threats we have as we look at h■ybds the dn that isussia and china and our other adversaries.for us the united se of our first amendment needed to allow for free speech and need to allow for information. the r the chinese are taking advantage of that in ways

that really manipulate public opinion. not just here in the united states but in europe and other democracies we have noted out ho respond to that in the state partment something called the global engagement center that is supposed to be there to try and correct misinformion and lett ts are that are coming out of the united sta we have not effectively yet been nformation i remember listening when he europe talking about the downing by russia with the klm airliner in ukrne. ukraine was blamed for it initially yet russia didod2 yeae

able to say it was definitively. in general set of songs it takes us ino respond to misinformation we are losing that warot to get better at. >> is to plug our own program we just had to fill along with the general senator tillis is itself planet i believe. ters for an event discussed in the past, present and future of warfari closing let me ask a question that is adjt about thom tillis and that is just what you hear from your constituents and you're out and about in north carolina and new e on foreign policy as a foreign-policy specialist who runs the center on europe i th but i am well aware of my home state of iowa for example there are other that seem to be more important to voters and to

citizens. senator i will does it come up in town halls is it inflation or foreign affairs registered voters questioning if so what kind of reaction you gethe for ukraine and nato? >> it does come probably this is an area where jane and i to cut through some of the false narratives. recounl go to the front off i do not identify who i am. thishere jane and i have bipartisan challenges to cut through the false narrativee

and i answer phones. i don't identify who i am. this happened to me with ukraine achieving my legislative directors and everyone■' else. listen to what they are saying#. thank you, we will let the senator i do not tell the constituents who i am. am honest about the interactions i have with my staff veered i had this gentleman call me he said you no tell the senator that he needsws about ukraine and start worrying about what is going on at the that is the most important the senator believes that the leader of the free world has to do both. clearly, our responsibility is the enday to maintain

the safety and securitytion. the safety and security of our f nations that we have a 75 year partnership with,. the senato■a■(elieve that we can do both and the reason he believes that is because we have done both. they are not important priorities. we have to behave in way that shows that we are fulfilling our responsibility as the leader of the free wld.our input. i will make sure your concerns. that is the way we haveoladies t supporting ukraine simply for supporting ukraine sake.■x■6 i see an endgame where the consequences could be dramaticre world. and that is worth making it a

dual priority of the safety, economic and and security of the united states and the safety andn nato and around the world that they have toinsically linked. >> i would just add to that, sir forty-eight states, i think it trade more with europe then you do with china trillions of dollars of investment from europe into the u.s. it is by far the dense block in the world allowing them to collapse because we willer as a result. >> i'm not sure where in the program. it is very important to point t that w have to go back to bipartisan failure and the

administrations. can you imagine the posture we would have right now with tpp had been in place for the last eight years. transpacific partnership. can you imagine that tool against the initiative andg or having, addressing some chals had and tried to get capital, go to china while they cannot find someone in the western world to partner with. i hope this decade is also a decade of understanding the strategic non-lethal value of enhancing our trade resiliency and more options that do not find their way in. hopefully, as a result getting china to compete

>> senator. >> yes, i would echo that four n latin america. europe and every country i have been in whether■!■@ it was the balkans, argentina, the, every e with the united states. we want a trade partnership. we do $3 billion worth of trade with europe. what happens in europe is a big deal for higher. i was meeting with employees and we spending money in the ukraine will be have needs at home. i talked first about the fact that a lot of the money we are spending new hampshire higher businesses and u.s. businesses to our

defense industrial space in one of the things we sell from the e have and our manufacturing defenses in order. we are getting the u.s. from the sup package in ukraine about 25 billion to u.s. firms creating good jobs and keeping people working. the threat f polluted and europe. the threat to nato.@: poland and other pve friendship. like i said earlier. as i said to the gentleman who raised grandsons. i do not wany

grandsons said off to fight in europe because we did not take care of the threat from russia now. right now, the courageous ukrainians are fight t i want to support them in every way that i can. so that we don't have to send american soldiers over to fights successful in ukraine and tesot. that is something people very much understand. >> thank you. that is a on. it is been a program. your bipartisanship also shines through and speaking to your staff in preparation for this. i think that it all flows down to the principles at the top. maybe you will get him. thank you for being hering at h.

a few topics that havealready r.