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peter: virginia ali, owner of ben's chili bowl since the eisenhower administration. who sat at the counter where you are sitting right now? who are some of the folks? ms. ali: oh mythere were musicians. oh wow. there was jesse jackson on occasion. he was in washington a lot. but our neighborhood people were to me. peter: how often would they come in? ms. ali:t several times a week. as a matter of fact, they would park their car acrossd the street and by the time they came in their food was in front of them. that is how frequent they were. my husband of 51 years before he died. peter: 1958, you opened this. why did you open ben's chili bowl? ms. ali: my husband came from trinidad and which regulated out

of university. first ofka out of lincoln, nebraska. when he was finished with that he came tohington to attend howard university dental school. when he had a big was unable to complete that program. but he worked his way through college by working in a restaurant. ing down the street at the bank, weet and we were foroduced and all of that and fell in love and wanted to be married. he was the one who came up with the great idea of willing to partner me with a little restaurant. learned while i worked at that bank how much i enjoyed interacting with different people all day long. with the restaurant, all i could think of to enjoy. that is how it all came about. peter: you came to washington in 1952 from? ms. ali: from occupation, virginia. it's near a big newpeter: what brought

you to d.c.? ms. ali: when my father owned a large farm, almost00 acre, farm, and he was able there. we had this wonderful warm, loving, caring family growing up on the farm. we were self supported for the most part. the store is a little girl were things we didn't produce. coffee, tea, sugar slat, va salt, vanilla. it was a wonderful way to grow up i got older i felt i i had been to washington many times, had relatives here, and i felt it looked like a beautul to washington. peter: what was the u street corridor of d.c. like in 1958? ms. ali: such a amazing, self supported but segregated communitythiswado

it was the entertainment center for african-americans. and i always remember howard university opened in 1867. so we had these highly educated people in what they called the shaw community. it was crowded, it wasdignified, and it was wonderful. peter: some of ben's chili bowl customers over the years include martin luther kingmarshall, stokely carmichael, julian bond, bayard rustin. the student nonviolent coordinating committee was located close to hear. -- close to here. ould come in regularly? ms. ali: would visit on a daily basii remember him because he was so personable, very handsome. and all about equality, trying to work for equality in this country. peter: april 4 1968.

what do you remember about that day? ms. ali:emember somebody walking through the door. peter: were you working the counter at the time? ms. ali: i was down here in the evening just before it was time for me to go home. and someone just announced that shot. well we didn't believe that. we'd king and he had been here and visited us selthe nonviolent leader? could not possibly be true. someone finally found the transistorittle later on, and dr. king was gone. so p openly. people were sad, people were upset, frustrated. and i think, then, angry. and the rest was not very pleasant. peter: how often would dr. king come in here? ms. ali: in 1963 when he was planning that march, he came pretty often. he had a little satellite office just a few blocks away. so he would pop in any old tthere

would sometimes be some of his comrades. i th occasion, young john lewis and all of that. and he would t some interesting stories. one that i in particular is what he said when he had a meeting with president kennedy, he and a few of them had a meeting. and they informed president kennedy about the injustices of black people, and that they planned to bring a whole lot of people here to protest that. and he said that, president kennedy said, well, i don't think that's a good idea. we want to help you but i don't thinbecause if there's an incident, dr. king, it will set your movement back. and dr. king an incident. 0ben and i were there. it was glorious, inspiring day. camegoing to come. and it did. we the civil rights bill in 1964.

so -- about five years later. five years later. this is what happened. peter: also joining us is bernard demczuk, the author of this book, breaking barriers with chili. :d you are the official and unofficial historian of ben's chili bowl correct? mr. demczuk: well, i am the official because she made the official. that's it, yes. ink, and i may be wrong, but i think we are the only restaurant in that has its own phd minted historian. peter: how did you become that? how did you find your interest in it? mr. demczuk: historian, and i have been involved in the civil rights movement forever appear i just realized this was the place to be o street, and u street was the place to be in washington d.c., and washington d.c. is the nation's capital. so it all came back to this little space. theater, you have

this extraordinary community and i found myself in love with the hotdogs. been coming here since 19 627. peter: where did the moniker black wall street come from? mr. demczuk:he would go over next door, which was the casbah bah then andshe was being interviewed by a reporter and a reporter said to her simply, mrs. bailey, why is this such a popular strip here? she said, you know what, honey? they don't let us play on broadway, so we made our own broadway. peter: the u street corridor and its history. mr. demczuk: corridor -- you have to be careful -- goes back 300 years. it started in the civilnd camp. this is can-americans fleeing slavery in the 1860's

settled in this area. ventually built shantytowns here and eventually mois then became what is known as boundary street, which isgton. and african-americans began to build their community here and it kept going and going. then 1867, howard university. so howard university is a five-minute walk from here and it began1910 the howard theater. howard theater was the premier african-american theater in the world in 1910. you begin to get howard theater, you begin to get these university, the place takes off. it becomes an incubator for african-american excellence and progress. peter: bernard demczuk virginia ali arrives in 1952. what was going on in the country like? mr. demczuk: 1952 of course was a segregated period of time in

america. we had just come from world war ii and the black gi's in world war ii, some took advantage of the g.i. bill and they went to howard university. these men who were trained to fight, and did fight in the europe, when they came back, they had to sit on the bacusthey could not sit at a white lunch counter. even in d.c. nfuriated them to the point where they said, look, if we can defeat the nazis in europe, we can defeat racism me. and so this area here really becomes the space and place for the modern civil rights movement. coordinated committee across the street. doctor king, down the street. naacp, around the corner. this was the place. three black newspapers were here. so what you begin to see is, yes, america is segregated but people are going to try and ch that. and where they begin to change

that is out d u street becomes the place. and so in 1952 here, this is a segregated communitysegregated community. peter: how would you describe the rol's chili bowl through our history? mr. demczuk: i think every city has a great space and place for african-americans to go to and feel safe, and feel as if this is our place to talk, to eat socialize, to listen to a jukebox. this is a so, new orleans has chase, atlanta has pascals, new york has silvio's. d.c. had ben's chili bowl. so ben's chili bowl was a space t people could go to and feel comfortable. it -- police respected it was a place where people could socialize and relax, and quite frankly, exhale from the world on the outside. peter: more ben's chili bowl

customers. andrew young, charles hamilton houston, a. philip randolph, john lewis, marion bnor holmes norton, and a woman named edessa modsate. who was odessa madre, virginia ali? [laughter] ms. ali: she was a graduate of a prestigious college prep high school. mr. demczuk: she was at the top of her class.an school in 1870. they have eight graduatno other school has that in the country. so it was a very school. ms. ali:omeone said perhaps it was because of her color. she did not she achieved as much as other people were achieving, so she found a different way. peter: maybe we should turn to

bernard demczuk. how did she make her living? mr. demczuk: she was very talented. she was actually very good in maths and sciences. she wanted to go to howard but she felt as if howard was a little bit elitist for her, even thoominent middle-class community an upscale black community. but she fef the black community at howard did not because of her skin color and because she was large and because she was allowed and she was a lesbian. and that was taboo in the 1920's, 1930's, andand so she figured if they are going to close the store for me, i am going to open a door for myself, and that became the underworld, an's underworld. peter: you to al capone. mr. demczuk: and i do so because, america we have these sort of mythological

heroes antiheroes. the godfather, al sopranos, bonnie and clyde. so we sort of revere these outlaws who go against the establishment. well, if the white community can have its outlaws, the black community can have its as well and odessa was an outlaw who is not selfish. she was very wealthy, and she always tried to hold people out money. she would literally give money out on the str was she a customer here at ben's chili bowl? ms. ali: i did not know her well. i metpb her at industrial bank as a teller. charles hamilton houston. who was he? ms. ali: a lawyer down the street there. mr. demczuk: he was behind brown versus board. he was the dean of howard's law iant. he unfortunatelyne versus board, but his student was

thurgood marshall. peter:'s return to april 4, 1968. did you stay open? did ben's stay open? ms. ali: yes. we were the only place that was allowed to remain open. peter: allowed to remain open? ms. ali:ed to remain open during downtime. of course we had these hours we opened at 11:00 in the morning in those days, and on friday and saturday nights. you can see everything in here. we had the reputation of being a part of this wonderful community and welcoming everybody and treating everybody the way you wa was a meeting place, it was gathering place. so when i got a the commander at the street, saying that we have passage for you to

come to work tonight. peter: so they shut this area down. there was riotingms. alout of respect for dr. king, they wanted everything closed in d.c. and that place. we went on curfewnights, and we were the only place open. as you walk up and down u street, yo buildings, high-rises. all of those new buildings used to be townhouses that were burned during the five days of rioting. 13 killed, 7600 people arrested. what was the aftermath of being in this areaftedays, and for quite a while afterwards? ms. ali: oh my goodness. you know, the businesses did not reopen. moved away. we became a big ghetto for a very long time. serious ghetto for a very long

time. then finally in city says ok, we are going to do something for this very poor community. we're going to build a subway rit across the street. so when they did the surveys they found that in the immediate vicinity only three places were still there. that industrial bank, stil there today. lee's flower shop, and ben's chili bowl. not enough to support maintaining one lane of traffic out there. they dug up t street 65 feet down. we were the only place that was open, and i only had one employee peaches. [laute mr. demczuk: you had to come through the alley to come into ben's, because you could not walk on the street for four years,ginia ali were you and ben ali scared you are going to have to close? ms. ali: of course we were not going to know what was going to happen.

but we had been a part of this community for 10 years. somehow people found a way to get here. it was a very difficult peter: bernard demczuk, you write in your book, breaking íg capitol was ground zero for that struggle to expand voting rights, women's rights d no place was mor centrale -- more central to the freedom because in the 1970's and 1960's than u street. mr. demczuk: yeah, oncein all due credit to the first people in alabama and selma the good people in mississippi who fought for voting rights and for integration in the south. all of that was important. birmingham. but the movement needed an intellectual base in which to

theorize and to send out the message of how civil rights could be achieved. and that was howard university and the u street area. as i mentioned earlier alleaizations were here, three black newspapers were here. and guess what else was here? the white house and the united statespeople of goodwill who wanted to change america's segregated society. and they lived here and this was the place to go. if you want to leverage, of course you can leverage in selma, alabama or[; birmingham. but if you want to really legislate, you have to legislate on the hill, and you need the white house support. unfortunately, first eisenhower did a good job on little rock then the kennedys came along, andson. it was important to be here. this was ground -- ground zero for power, and power makes things happen. peter: at what point did ben become an institution? mr. demczuk: i think you could

probably argue that night of april 4, 1968, when it was the only business to be permittedbecause the police, the national guard, the activists, they needed a space in place to meet anbellion. i thinkwas the beginning that people said look, everybody is closed except and if we go forward to 2 we were the only place that stayed open making sandwiches and hot dogs, away free during the pandemic to first responders. nurses in the hospitals, emt workers, the police, the fire department. we did not close up. we made food and gave it away free. so i would say 196 but we've continued that since then. peter: vir you are quoted in breaking barriers with chili. one of the greatest joys is serving people from all walks of life. whether it is a junkie sitting

at the counter next to a judge or a homeless person sitting next to a member ofgress, all of them have an interesting story. i am interested in hearing your story and telling them mine. ms. ali:i grew up in an envonment to treat everybody the way you want to be treated. and i justad that love for people and i discovered that when i was at industrial bank interacting with people. and now i am 90 years old he.peter:e counter anymore? ms. ali: i don't take orders because the memory is notbut i do greet people, and see what i can do to make their visit better. because as i hear their stories. they want to hear mine, but i also want to hear there's. -- hear theirs. where was your position, everywhere? ms. ali: everywhere. i came in as a cashier. but yes, turned out to be

everything. wh needed is what you do. mrmc she oversees the grill, becau charred before tt on a bun. you cannot just throw a hot dog on a bun. it has to be perfectly charred. her eagle eye makes sure of that. ms. ali: that goes alongway you want to be treated. that is how i want to eat mine. i want you to have one just like i would have mine. peter: i notice on the menu on the board, there are no prices. ms. ali: well, that is the new generation. i didn't do that. [laughter] peter: is there a reason? is that your daughter-in-law back there? ms. ali: what really happened was because during the pandemic we couldn't useand we. pric very proud of those menus. because of the pandemic, everything has to be so sterile.

we couldn't use them, it was against the law. so we have not gotten back to that yet. peter: virginia ali, what is this sitting behind me? ms. ali: it is the mood of the chili bowl, it's our jukebox. - with a jukebox. remember -- you remember holly? all he was a person who lived in the community. came in one day and said, you needok, well he helped us get a jukebox, told us how to get the records and put the records on and the whole bit. peter: this is the original? ms. ali: no, it's not the original but it'mr. demczuk: we are the only remaining jukebox on u street and one of the fewc.

when you walk down the street and the door opens and soul music is blasting down the street, and you look through that window and you see the chili dogs and half smokes arring, and then you get a whiff of that smell and you see it and you smellt,. and then you hear the music you want to come in. this is a place to be. peter: jesse jackson, george w. bush, hillary clinton, cornel west french president nicholas are cozy, dick gregory, and january of 2009, you had a special guest come in here unexpectedly. who wasms. ali: former president obama. his very first outing in washington after he was elected t. and just a short timhe came to eat out in washington right here. you see the seal, and that is the picture. he came with the mayor

at that time and it was a delightful surpris you did not know in advance? ms. ali: no. peter: were you workms. ali: yes, i was here. but the way they do it, the secret service comes in first. we are not paying any attention to secret service. the secret service comes in first and a look around and make sure everything is just fine. and then he and the mayor walked in and they locked the saturday is always our busiest day. clsoed t -- closed the entire street, the whole block. you block at that time. it was a very exciting time, a very very exciting time. and because it was his first outing in d.c. it made newspaper headlines. peter:been back since? ms. ali: yes. as a matter of fact, here about a year ago to do an interview. peter: and that is where he sits, with the sticker? ms. ali: exactly exactly. peter: now there is a plaque

next to that sticker. bernard demczuk hours. [laughter] ali: that was going on for a long time. the pandemic chang too. mr. demczuk: this area hereac jukebox strategically pthis area here was sort of a gathering place of civil rights activists, and any other activist. could be antiwar, could be environmental, could be marion barry and his plans to get reelected. this sort of became a place to stop and hang out. i would sit there, or here, and starting 1981, i sort of commandeered this area. n sitting at this spot for 43 years watchin people come in and talk to you? mr. demczuk: oh, sure. ms. ali: they would call him and make appointments. mr. demczuk: people actually call me and say, can i come and talk about -- what do you want

to talk about? i want to talk about the civil war. i say come on d talk. peter: where did you teach in the past? mr. demczuk: university. today i teach at the national museum, african-american history and culture. and i have taught at d.c. public schools. i have done all of that part-time, because i was a full-time administrator and/or government work with marionberry. just my love of history and teaching drives may. we used about 55 people as a classroom for students. high school students, college students. people coming from north carolina with a busload and they want to get a tutorial on the black d.c. i speak to them in the back. peter: i would like to hear from both of you about the complicated legacy of marionberry. marion barry was such a smart man who loves his people so much.

i don't know what would've happened had he not gotten into trouble. he was so brilliant and had a photographic mind. ng. you can see him three months from now he would know my namei saw him do that with people. he was very astute with politics and he really loved his people. mr. demczuk: i was with him for well over 25 years, in an out of government very close to him. the photographic memory is really interesting, and people always talk about this. i met marion barry once, said hello to him. said, what is your name and where you live? ok, nice to see you. shake hands and that's it. six months later runs into betty, hey you still on fairmont street?

ything. it was quite extraordinary. very personable, very proud. stood up straight, was very handsome. ms. ali: what was his degree in, chemistry? mr. demczuk: almost got his phd in chemistry but civil rights got him out of academia. we called him mayor for life. he won four times. andets out of jail for a misdemeanor,, and -- runs for mayor again, and? the guy was dynamic. he may have had some personal demons, which we all know as true, what he was a beautiful man, very smart and kind. and by the way, he s very softly. unless he gave a speech, that he bravado, but he was always a soft speaking person. peter: you catered one of his inaugurals, didn'tms. ali: yes, we did. we had a book signing right

there in the back room. we did all that. peter: we know about barack obama coming here, but picture of george w. bush here. how did that george w. bush was not actually here. mr. demczuk: he was painting a wall renovating a high school, and he was painting the ben's chili bowl symbol. so we've got a picture of that. e street. ms. ali: painting a ben's chili bowl. peter: did bill clinton ever come in? hilary did quite often. wager when she was in new york. you remember that? she spoke in the back room, and the middle room,had permits from the that said champagne and chili dogs. peter: the march on washington.

you said you and your husband ben were at the march. 6v did you close ben's chili bowl? ms. ali: no, we had a team that could take care of the restaurant? peter: was it a busy day? y. it was a very busy day. thousands of people formed a line out there. for the longest people people ask me, how did you get there? we drove as far as we could and then did a lot of walking. after it wasntil 4:00 in the morning we were busy. peter:inaugurations come through washington. are those busy times for ben's chili bowl? ms. ali: absolutely. there are articles in the paper -- which paper was it, on the front page of the travel section was a picture of the lincoln memorial? oh you are going to washi inauguration of president bush? there was a picture --

ou going to washington, d.c.? these are the things you need to do. go to the inauguration, go to this museum, out ben's chili bowl. peter: do you still have people coming in today in 2024 where this is a destination spot for them? dness, yes. mr. demczuk: even more sowith social media and instant information flow and people like to have fun, and this is a fun place. one of the things we really emphasizes you will ce. you will be happy because we have music, we have good people, we have goodhappy place. so people literally all over the world find us as a destination spot. ms. ali: and they come in and show m you, you are virginia. yes, how did you kwell i saw it on a video at home. from europe, the middle east, anywhere. it's really fun. peter: speaking of music bernard demczuk in his book "breaking barriers with chili" calls you out for your love of

music and theater when you were growing up here in washington. ms. ali: oh yeah. atwe had great musicians, we had great music and we had clubs and the music places that were so wonderful. so, i do love music. food too. now i tell people we have people from allful city and in the dmv. ll over. i love living in this period in time. i feel like i have lived during the best years of the usa. peter: you also lived through the crack academic -- epidemic here in washington, d. like? ms. ali: it was very sad to see will is happening to our young people. it was very, very sad. them, try to figure out why you are doing and how. i remember one time askina

young man, i said, you know i have three sons, and i don't him to do what you are doing. so tell me what i can do to prevent that. he said, well, i don't really know they do get hooked, akneedles. i dobut i needed to talk to people. when you treat people the way they want to be treated, they ith you. i could ask them all kinds of questions, and it would give me their honest opinions. make sure he gets clean needles if he is going to be injecting drugs. the answer i needed. peter: w ben's, there's a message down below the counter. what is that message? ms. ali: our love of people and the service we try to provide and us. people are very important to us. them. peter: 2009, ben passes.

how did that impact ben's chili bowl? ms. ali: well, ben was a very strong personality here, and of course we missed him. he did have a later entrance in life. wasn't spending as much time here as he used to. we had computers by that time. we used to have a ticker tape or at homstock market. mr. demczuk: he traveled. we were married 10 years before we had a we would get little two days but one of us stmake sure this was going to be ok. we took vacations, but one of us stayed. i would go to hang out with his family, he would go wherever hfeand then when the boys joined gest surprise of all for me. we sent thehey dethis business. when they started, the first one

came i think in the mid-1980's. that is when we started our travels, and we were able to see a little bit of th the fact that he was muslim and you are christian getting married 1958, was that a big deal? ms. ali: that was a big deal because my minister from my christian church refused to marry us. and we decided we just essentially were going to open up a restaurant. ing to have a big ceremony and all of that. we were married in a judge'schambers, because the christian minister would not marry me to a muslim. and in the state of virginia there was a racial thing. you knoo different races, actually. ben was really known as caucasian, as dark as he was. peter: he was known as what? ms. ali: caucasian. i remember his driver'sng it on at once. mr. demczuk: virginia, the state, passed in 1924 that separated the races both

native americans and blacks and whites. and that lasted all the way until the levin supreme court case in 1967. so, it was dangerous for them to be together back in the 1950's. ms. ali: in the state of virginia yes. peter: that is quite a mural in ben alley way next to the mural? ms. ali: one of our councilmbers. what's his name? graham. came up with a brilliant idea. because we had this whiteboard there and everyone else had clean walls on theide ofhe came up with an idea. come painting, maybe it won't get all messed up. ok, we thought that's a great idea. so the city really is the one who can take credit for the murals. we were the ones who said this is what we want on our and that is how it all came

about. that is what you see out there now. the community help there. you could go online and vote for who you wanted to see. mr. demczuk: there were 30,000 votes. these 19 people were the highest votems it was amazing. then older people were coming in and saying to me, i don't do the computer, but i wrote down a few [laughter] it was verywow, my wall is important. peter: denzel washington, bill cosby, chuck brown, anthony bourdain, serena williams, kevin hart, chubby checker, russell crow iverson, danny glover, shaquilleve all been customers here at ben's. ybody else? ms. ali: yes. most of them say, i want the experi them say i want the experience.

we have had one or two that said, can we come in the backdoor? we've had a few that do that, and we say yes, you can come in the backdoor. [laughter] mczuk: dr. dre came here and he wanted to learn how to do thi prepare. he put on a white shirt, went back there and started making chili dogs for people. he was doing a video. mrs. ali went up to him and actually fired him on the video. ms. ali: that was part of the script. washington did a scene from "the pelican brief"russell crowe did a scene in"state of play." it's wonderful to see how they do that and how meticulous they are. i think we had a coca-cola clock up here, we were scoca-cola at the time, and the, or

vice versa. i came in one time when they somebody was on a ladder painting this new ock they put up there. i'm like what are you doing? they didn't want to look so new. it had to blend in, because they were trying to make it look a little dingy. i'm like, nobody is looking up there, the camera is not going to -- yeah, they had to touch it was so much fun to see that filming take place. one summer when somebody was foaming, it was really hot -- wasly hot. i said it is going to be really hot back there. they said ok. they just shot cool air in. it was cool for them to do that a little bit. we had a film done recently, a docume and was picked up by sun dance. -- by frequent documentaries, and a lot of student documentaries. howard university, george wathe students of course are

studying to be cinematph and/or documentary producers. and here. it is a fun place to shoot. peter: hasf ben's chili bowl changed in 60-someyears? ms. ali: no. peter: same frontdesign? ms. ali: with the grill in the window. done now if you are building a new place. peter: no? ms. ali: no grills in the window. mr. demczuk: yellow and red with whites all over the place. you can't miss it walking down ms. ali: and the movie theater there is a big building in the back. it was gentrification. the lack of black-owned businesses. you report in your book, bernard demczuk how many businesses in this area were black-owned at one time. does that stand today? mr. demczuk: no. well it was over 200, andremember, we were a segregated community back then.

this was the african-american business political, cultural section. five major theaters, 14 blues and jazz joints, 12 barbershops and beauty salons. t that, in a 12 block space, 12 barbersnd salons. so this was the place to be. there were well over 200 african-american businesses only five. there is only five now. sorry there are more beginning to happen now, yes. but only five since the 1960's. peter: how would you describe the neighborhood today? ms. ali: highly young, highly educated people. peter:se? ms. ali: no. not this but my kids probably know who they are hanging out with. because i knew the neighborhood. the people by name and they

knew me. duhose days, it was a close knit community. e socially, you saw the same people you saw during the day. we would go to the theater, or when you go to the dance hal or dinner. peter: matters little bit. who came up with the who invented that? [laughter] ms. ali: ben and i came up with thewas a very limited menu. our sons us add more and more things and bef what they are vegetarian options and all kinds of things. so they are the ones who tinue it today. the chili special. and i think ben started the creation of yes. it's his special recipe. i have added a little bit to it here and there. we only had chili sauce, then carne turkey chili

all that sort of thing. peter: did ben come up with the sauce? ms. ali: invention in the beginning, yes. peter: mannow what it is besides you? ms. ali: my children me, and peaches. you write about her in your book. ms. ali: peaches was a young lady i hired just before her 18th birthday. to work at night so she could go to school. i said, we will have to talk about that. we'll work out something because you cannot work late nights. she was too young and did not know how to handle the crowd the guys. so i just kind of took over as hershand the one who knew how to make the chili. she was the one who me to chicago for steve harvey's chili competition. she was from the inner-city. much smarter than ias about things like that. peter: and she worked here for how long? ms. ali: 45 years.

peter: and just recently passed? ms. ali: yeah. she passed because she had just one little bad habit cigarettes. peter: was smoking ever allowed in ben's? ms. ali: when we first opened, yeah. but we were one of the first restaurants to s. what is the guy's name, a , came by and announced it with me? i can never think of it right now. but a popular guy. e back door too. to the public that they would be no more smoking in ben's, one of the first restaurants to do that. peter:, in your bo quote don't shop where you can't work. mr. demczuk: so, once again back to the 1950's, and even into th's, african-americans were discriminated against from working in ctain white owned

businesses. and it was marion barry in 1967, 1968 who began the don't shop where u can't work movement. now, marion barry initiated that in the 1950's and 19however, that started down the street in 1933 by howard university students. there was one particular store that was notorious owned by white people but refused to hire any black people. the howard students set up a picket line in front of the store, and picket lines said, don't shop where you can't work. this is an all-black community, and within two weeks the place had to shut down because they couldn't make any money. they gave up and they we'll hire. and they did. then the movement continued. by thearly 1950's it is estimated that 5000

african-americans got jobs because of that 1933 picket line called, don't shop where you can't work. it took marion barry 1967 to reintroduce that movement and began to work. not just here -- not here, mostly connecticut avenue and northeast. peter: virginia ali, how long have your employees generally stayed with the? -- with you? ms. ali: 10, 12 years. ad one person who stayed a long time, and initially we h a lot of students, so they would be here for four years, or six years if they started when they were in high school and then they went to one of the local colleges andmoved on. so i had the pleasure of having three or four generations now coming back to go to school. their grandparents would takethem, this is how i made it through school. require our college students or even high school --

they're not going to let you work until 3:00 in the morning if you have morning class. we will work out something so it to do what is most important ' locations do you have now? this i there are four others that my kids opened up. one is reagan airport, one is at the baseball stadium, one is the convention center, and there is another 1/10 a eighth streets peter: have you visited those locations? yeah, absolutely. weekend, and i stopped at the one at reagan airport on my way home. peter: do they know who you are? ms. ali: of course. mr. demczuk: giant foods takes up -- peter: all three of yourons and daughters in law are active?

ms. ali: all three of my son a lawyer but does not . all three of my sons and two of my daughter-in-law's. another is a nurse practitioner. their office is in our building next door. peter: bernard demczuk in simple form, what is the legacy, the history of ben's chili bowl? community builder. community builder. this is a place where you can feel exhale from the outsidecan listen to good this is a place where community feels comfortable. and in the very rough times that mrs. aliked about, the community rough times. mrs. ali gives back to the community all the time. we have a foundation that has been around since 2010. we give away about $50,000 a

year to local youth groups. we like our community as much as they like us and it's a symbiotic relationship of love. ms. ali: let me say one more thing about the pandemic. when the pandemic came, a reporter came to me and said, i don't know how you are doing this. we were on the brink. i started getting letters from people. i rember the very first one, i don't have very much money but a love ben's chili bowl. ept my $25 money order. and then they would be $50 and $100, and so on. it helped us when we were packing lunches for howard university hospital, for the first responders and all of that. and i thought,thow, is so amazing that the community is soresponsive and helpful and wanted us to survive. that meant a lot to me.

peter: virginia ali, ben's chili bowl. bernard demczuk, historian of ben's chili bowl. both. ms. ali:. . thank you. thank you very much. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: all q&a programs are available on our website or as a podcast on our c-span now app.