ahead of this summer's paris olympics. watch the house oversighttartin0 p.m. eastern on c-span 2, c-span now,8 or online at c-span.org. announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more,.■ including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we are just getting start, building 100,0 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. announcer:haunicatns supports cn as a public service, along with providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. continues. : "washington journal" our conversation the next 45 machines is debates many

joining us is the chief executive officer of on to debate. what is open to debate, and how did you come up with that name? guest: it is the only nonpartisan nonprofit debate driven media platform. destination where you can always hear two sides of ■k presented from multiple perspectives. we came up last year we were formerly known as intelligence squared u.s. which many listeners recognize from npr. we are also a weekly n program but we developed it to rain into the moment of being open minded, open to other ideas and hearing the other side. asthe segment before there are so many issues we need to work together on versus having that mentality. so it is a mind set.

host:■n:i how is it funded if guest: it is a nonprofit so we are aphilanthropy, we have imagine donors, institutional support and ■gr up with some recommendations for the presidential debates. these are your recommendations. let's talk them one at a moder standards. what do you mean? things are mey that. in■é the format of the debates, is often having one or two journalists ask the candidates a lot of questions, sort of resulting inhe m level responses. we think in terms ofpreparation kind of editorial framework tha debate. that wou come down to the way you phrase questions. we found that there were a of gotcha questions that were intended just for one

expose one side's weaknesses or strengths. so the moderation preparation standards for us involve k about framing the topics, and involving more of the issues divorce just us journalists. host: hould you recommend that these moderators ask a question so that it is more open and not framed in a politic guest: it is freezing so it is phrasing it more of a yes or no other or against. because what happens the question is asked of a candidate and income evade it or change the isn't or i will get to that in one second but first i want to respond to something i heard five minutes ago so we never

hear the questions a lot of que through the debate. so framing where you gpoint, co and go into depth on that point. host: something recommendation give the moderator more power during the debate. that comes down to the mute button. that is one thing we are tain we know having a mute button which will happen in thursday as d'antoni will make a big difference if acontinues to int of hurl personal tax orring som else's remarks. being able to turn the mic off during though momentsfor the mo. host: what about boy language? so might not be interrupting or talking but the. should the camera not show that?

esok. we encourage seeing how the other side is engaging with the opponent. body language is a big part. eye rolling, crossing arms, flipping the head back. i think these are important reactions to see when this is supposed to be an exploration of policy platforms so i think that is an important part. st any recommendation on camera angles? guest:hi multiple angles so central on the candidate seeing them tack to the camera, seeing them from the side and what kind of eye contact they would mac with are important., i think those in our debates we stage them so there is direct eye contact the two sides because we want to have a dialogue and discourse. the presidential debates are a little bit different. >> you also recommend you change the debate format. what do you mean? >> there are a lot of different d'antoni formats developed over

the debates around the oxford style format which starts with a sharply framed question at t debaters answer yes or no to. they a uninterrupted time to deliver opening remarks to lay out their arguments and the moderator comes in to explore the two in a cross did examination that goes pretty deep, more bring in members of a to ask probing questions all in an effort to learn, not to win. so, different debate tporpblts yield different outcomes but an debate is supposed to be an exchange of ideas. we are supposed to listen to so our format gives time foreign interrupted remarks but there's vibrant back exampl oxford style. what mrase it? guest: we have over 300 of these

debates that are available on our web site to see. but some more recent ones should congress continuehe war in ukraine, yes or no. is islam anti-semitic? married or single. question mk open,the. we get to the yes or re of a fo lnle of been to get at or ones so it depends on what we are going for as d'antoni -- debate host: implement concrete concrete rules, we -- this study we just contacted had interesting data points. you saw one personal attack in 2004 went up to over 70 in the 2016 and 2020 debates. some of have

to come down to obviously controlling the mic is ■a big one. we talked about that. but one of the things ay is giving -- we like is giving penalizing bad behavior if they are constantly interrupting, too mu cross caulk or devolves intocks or eye rolling. those could go a long way to ci in what is ultimately the high eflsro daytona -- highest profile date. host: you highlight this in your report. we will talk about it. >> the basement leak joe does. he has the ability to lock himself up. i don't know he's made a lot of monday someplace this thing about living in a basement. people can't do■n as the presid

that. i would love it put myself ■in the basement or pwraoufrpl room until it dose appears. i cannot do that. >> he is a confused guy. he is running against joe biden. i beat those others because i disagreed with them. joe biden he is running against. host: what would you have done differently? guest: i think i need to hear the set-up for that question that pmpe. whatever question led to that may not have en the i think at this point this is where the in. there are times the moderator needs to interrupt and say i didn't askestion. we are waiting for an answer on the question we asked are outputs. if you watch our our moderator and chief who is the most e masterful way of being ao

interrup when they deflected or evaded a question and sorry to interrupt answer to this first question. hear it is again. so we get to the no other commitment in answering the question. so talkibo t who are you running against off moderator shouldav control and between 2016 and 2020 they lost control over 60 times in throws debates and -- inhose debates and that is a good example. host: we're three days away from the first debate of this 2024 campaign cycle. place on thursday. shs the ief executive officer of open to debate. we want to take your thoughts, your questions, your comments on

this this morning. start dialing in, and we'll get to those in a minutes. clea conner, let's talk about thehursda night. 90 mint debate with two commercial breaks. candidates' microphonewi be mute during the debate until i is their turn to speak. no audience and no props or prewritten notes will be permitted. candidates must be on the ballot in enough states to reac 270 electoral votes. nk is going to work, and where do you think they should have added more? guest: it will be interesting to see what works here. in a d going to come down to editorial framework and some of the questns debate is u, because there are no opening questions asked, one-minute responses,nd rebuttals,

90-second responses. it's going to bre in terms of at are■ ultimately very vague, complex questions that we're so i think in terms of these very quick, 60 seconds, seconds, it's very hard to lay out90 seconds or to answer something that's complex in 90 seconds, and then to also have a thorough rebuttal. be interesting to see how the candidates have prepared for this in focus of their responses, but also reallyow ke and dana are going to moderate these questions wend hall formats of past years yielded better questions, which those were questions from the audience. os questions from average americans. i'd love to know if some these questions would be informed by cnn listeners or c-span viewers and what cross

section of american ideas going to be presented during the debate. are the moderators of cnn's debate this thursday. bob ohio, republican. bob, your thoughts on presidential debatesller: yes, e to ask the young lady if she would consider her -- or her organization would consider the classic debate, where they take each issue and reverse and then speak t opposition of that position. do you understand what i'm saying? bob, i would say that would h■dpeinntasy land. i love the idea of seeing president and trump take each other's positions and argu. because what that does is it jut they are in their opposition

thinking and understanding the f their opponent's point of view. so tng exercise. i don't see it ever happening with presidential candidates, but some day, if open tdebate is able to host a presidential debated, which we would l lot of credibility to that process, perhaps we can propose that . host: terry in salem, massachusetts, democc caller: hello, to me it appears that the only reason that you have to have topic like this thy has been downgrading itself for 40 years now, and it empties out into a sea of um lies, and stone-agetrum2( can'tn people say, oh, we're divided, and 70% of the people

don't want trump or biden for president. but the because of trump, everything else is ok. half the country is just voting against itself because they're afraid -- that debates have state because of te former president?■s caller: they haven't -- well, yeah, the maga republicans, thdevolving ones. i mean, to me it started with because he was like a little boy in little boy pants, and it was obvious that he had nothing making at, so clea conner, when do you believe debates got off track, or have they always not been done properly, as your

group wouldk argue? guest: we analyzed the last 20 years of presidential debates in this study, whic titled discourse correction, and we found thatxx it's not isolated , you could call it the trump erat have increasing, especially the last 12 toe the s there in terms of -- we measure it had by the amount of cross talk, the number of interruptions, h m moderators lost control, and also how many questions went unanswered and how much was left in to discuss. all of those had outcomes. it's not just a trump phenomenon effect. this is definitely something th is a national issue when you're talking about having a democracy is a conversation, and right now we're not able to have

a dialogue about that. so debate is to elevate both sides' opportuno understand each other, and really start from a place ofxú h argument, because even calling ca a great place to start aso thate really grounded in starting from a place civility and respect, and implemented by a moderator, by a third-party organization. have to redevelop as a country. is there, independent. hi, paul. caller: od everybody. first i want to say i really enjoy this conversat■]ion. yours get to host a debate. your rules are outstanding. two things i'd like to one is the dodging questions. they need to go away. they need to just thw out, ok? and the other point that i

really admire thatht up is hold their feet to the fire to answer the question. so many times a moderator asks really good question, and never get an answer. that's all i have to say. have a great morning, and like i said, i do hope thatorganizatioa debate. guest: thank you. thank could throw out gotcha questions too, but theac those help drive views. those get clicks. snippet that is we see on social media, the 15 to 30 seconds, of, information dieti think we're going to see more of those. unfortunately.■ host: dennis in nashville, tennessee, democratic caller. caller:orning. i just wanted to follow up on something that you guys saidrog. there's been so many americans o

important for you in■9 the upcoming election. there's probably a litany of at least 20 top items, that if you focus on the top six or eight items as far as the candidates instead of like the one gentleman just said, the gotcha questions and all that kind is the policy to address that particular issue. and if you can do that, you make more common sense candidates are really going to do versus what they're not going to do. earmark for debates. and ever since i was a kid, debates were all based on that hypotheticalr the topics. and let's stick with the topics. host: guest: i agree with you. we would love to see a deeper examination of policy issues. the gotcha questions a culture y

surface-level questions designed to createtrage, designed to spark that moment in the debate that goes viral later on social media. but we need a serving of vegetables sometimes, and for me that's really focusing oncy are. it's the economy, it's healthcare, it's education, it's national security. so i though see those issues come up as much as you do. esential debate, as we said, this thursday night. we will have a■u cnn presidential debate on c-span2, as well as our free video mobile appc-an now, and online at can.org. that's at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. and then, of course, we will open up the phones, as we always do here, on c-span and have a nation conversation with all of you, heard in that debate, the firstresidential debate of this election cycle. ahead of that, you c■1hm wcond .

eastern time we will remind you then of the policy issues that the two candidat spoke about, debated on, back in 2020. you want a refresher ahead of thursday's 2024 presidential debate. clea conner, what do you make of now these news outlets hosting these debates and not t presidential commission on debates? guest: well, the thing is then l debates has a track record thats moment, where both parties with them again this year. so i think there's a role to nonpartisan, not even bipartisan, but nonpartisan hoss that can then become a feed

carrieews outlet. butfferent k.p.i., keyloping their work. c-span and open to debate, we're nonprofit organizations. we're driven by a mission and different set of results. that's a little bit different for major med and cable news outlets. so i think it's a slippery slope. there used to be a third-party dete 1970's, in the 1960's and 1970's, up to and that's how the presidential however, it never quite served the purpose that it needed to, because debates require a different kind of exper to prode every four years isn't going to el super high-quality products versus if you're doing ;3this all the time, if you're studying debate, if you're bringing boths and understanding

how to navigate these very tricky,■ very complex, and very smart people. so i would sayvy that this is unprecedented for america to have the networks and we'll see what happens on thursday. nt intvi with cbs, the commission on presenchair discussed the impact on cycle wg the commission hos >> frank, if there are no the commission, what will thetrr perspective? >> well, i have felt that if you want to be president of the united states and/or vice s, you want to have to stand on the stage, answer questions, for two purpos number one, to not only describe

to the american people what you're going to be doing if you e elected, with regard to issues that they're concerned th their everday life. that's the easy thing. how do you handle these■9■hether it's the economy, whether it's education, so forth? the other thing that most people don't realize, and i'm asked 30s debates, what have you learned about and what i've learned is the american people wanto like and respect their president. that's very clear. we've gone through two cycles now whene'ad candidates on b sidesser who not majority approved by the american people. so being able to■a see how they can talk themselves duringn obey rules, whether or not they are respectful with their opponent, how do they go forward. host: you heard there from frank.

did the commission fulfill the role that he outlined there in th interview? guest: well, the way he described it, the role of■?issin opportunity for the two candidates to stand up there and articulate their ideas, and in that regard,or making their arguments. really, it's just at this point their talking points, because there wasn't al gaugement between the two sides or a lot of followups, as we saw by 2020, the moderators lost control dozens and dozens andns. the format yielded a lot of cross talk, a lot of interruptions, so while to hear the candidates' ideas, it wasn't a debate. host: where did they go wrong? you said their track record led the two candidates to agree not to attend a debateted by the

thel, i would say there's a lot of reasons that i think the work with the commission this year. it starts two years ago. around this, actually, where the r.n.c. members unanimously voted to stop working with the commission based on the fact biased against president trump and that they refused dates thae going to take place. happening s week is the earliest that appenn televised in terms of the happee conventions have taken place. so because of the time the commission was inflexible onchae debates happen and following a tradition they've had for many, many years, the r.

unanimously voted to pull out of working wh erstanding was that e biden administration really to t they weren't going to wo with the commission on this debate. and this is also interesting, because it's really biden that issued the debate challenge this time around. it the president on social media challenging■ trump to a debate on his terms, with his network, with tir a format that they liked, and no studio■ audience. so this is just a completely i would say it's probably ate devaluation of debate since this isn't following a seems to be more of a press conference panel discussion. host: is it a good no audience? guest: i have mixed feelings on that. i think the hear different kindf arguments and structures in a oadcast environment, versus a live audience.

in the past, the town hall format questions, like i said. that was one of the findings of our presidential debate study. so i do like having more of voice for the american people in these debates. these exercises for the country. it's kind of turned into a bit of spectacle. so i do think there's a role for theast one of these recorded in front of a live studio audiee or featuring a role for the american public. host: we are talking about the presidential debates, the first one coming up onosthat. c-span will simulcast the cnn eaeron c-span2. abc reporting biden campaign picks right side podium forident will have the last word. arizon, yo qion or concerns about

the presidential debates. go ahead. caller: yes, i'm concerned that both moderators have super strong bias. you can play aur of them for the last seven y him. i can't see why mr. trump would ev want do a debate with those two. there been a debate, douglas-lincoln, where there'sao at it, one-on-one? i think you would see a more president.s president, i really feel that, d the media beat up trump for seven years, but biden is already going to know what the questions are going to be. i don't have any faith in what's coming up with tra and the other one, super bias

against mr. trump, and it's obvious. host: conner? guest: yeah, that seems to be a letimate concern f americans. you know, we have media outlets that partisan affiliations or track records of supporting or endorsing candidates. so i believe the organization hosting a debate really matters. i think cnn is an amazing network, has incredible international coverage. producing a debate is a different kind of exercise. it requires a different kind expertise. as debate producers, we believe it's verymp has a different kind and takes into consideration all the findings of this recent study. the reason we did the study is because we have a formula that we're the nation's only

nonpartisan debate organization, but we wanted was really happeno these presidential debates given that they're thefile contest in the world, where we see our leaders really interact with one another, understand their character, hear their platforms, see them engage with each other, and i think we'd love to see a different kind of moderation take place with these debates that we decades. host: the first debate on thursday, 9:00 p.m. eastern time. abc w■uill host the second debae on september 10. clea conner, if there's only those two debates, is that enough? guest: i don't think it's enough. i would love to see a debate with a live audience. a debate that's really taking the issues that the american public cares to center stage. i'd love to see a debate that has açr structure, that gives our candidates time to present and■ ideas, that really isn't driven

by the axios talking about the meme presidential debates this year, how these debates are almost being designed to be edited down to memes for social media. that's kind of a disservice to these are opportunities for us to become more informed, to see our interact, and to take this very seriously. this is our election this year. so i think a debate that is structured in a completely different w would be a game changer for the country at this point. host: abc wh mo rep on the cnn debateesident biden and the former president will be given two minutes to bye moderator, followed by one minute each to respond a red lit flashing to indicate to candidates they have five time.

when their time is over, the t will turn solid red. more on the rules. here is one of our viewers reti on x. upming debate, to not include bobby kennedy in the debate■76 would be criminal. they'd be breaking their own rules. clea conner? guest: my understanding■■ is cnn adopted the same rules ultimately as the commission one qualifications seem texclud■ñ bobby kennedy from the able to s and hear debates with other function for americans. i though see that in the next election cycle. host: steve, charlotte, north carolina, independent. hi, steve. caller: yes, i'm not going to be watch the highlights afterwards, probably at c-span. i'm really confused gentlemens' agenda. there are so many things that

theyeem to be ignoring. number which, the israeli-hamas fight there. it's tragic. i have no idea what are thinking. debate and see how they take that issue is on. i can't isn't going to come up. this is one of the most consequential foreign policy issues forntry. i would imagine that it's going to have air time during the debate. another question here posted on x from a viewer. should trump have made his running mate pick before thursday? ist irresponsible for him not to have done so? in the past, two■7 candidates and one running mate debate. what happened? guest: well, what happened is we have a debate that's coming out very early, actually, in the election cycle, before the

conventions have even been held. regardless of having a v.p. pick, we haven't the conventions ses. so it's all the way around. it's an interesting ne we're ser presidential debates.hio, democc caller. caller: goodning. i have one question. i was hoping that would ask each of]p3 the candidates, if each of them were to step down from president, who would they appoint in their party t the hi? host: that's the question you want asked at the debate? ca that's right. host: clea conner? guest: i would have to leave it to them to answer thathost: whae question? guest: i think it's a great question, especially one has a(■ running mate, one has a v.p., and the other does not.

it's a ask. host: doug in falls church, virginia, republican. caller: thanks for tag my calm i'm a big fan of c-span. i wanted to echo some of the thouts already articulated. it's a tragedy you're not including third-party like r.f.k. jr. in the debate. he has anywhere between 9% andig deal. i think your caller said that riteria similar to the commission. i disag created a concept called presumptive nominee. r.f.k. jr. is the only one that is on the ballot in any of these states because conventions haven't happened for major parties, so concept there. i think the idea that we call these debates is incorrect. there's really no back and forth in a meaningful w, the idea that we need to have more moderator a really bad idea. if one candidate wants to

constantly talk and blather on and interrupt other people, you're going to come acrs looking like a fool, and i think the previous debate. to trump in i think biden setting up these rules where you cut off his be s detriment. it's going to make tr more reasonable and composed, which, again, is not to h keep portraying biden like he's the forth. if anyone remembers the debate with him versus paul ryan, he was constantly interrupting paul i think this is something that's adjusting to the beff biden. i think democrats constantly putting this criteria thether g their own candidate, things like that, thr#lways foot. host: ok, i think we heard your point. we'll get a response. guest: agree with you these aren't really debates.

hearing some specific claims that have a rebuttal, hearing some actual engagement bwe the candidates. we're not going to get that, questions directly to the moderators in this case, not tos kind of operating like the referee. so in this these are not real debates, so to speak. but they also haven't been like what we produce at open to debate, for many, manys that prompted this study, to understand if we had some more data improve the condition of what is important debate that we see as a nation. i would love to rehabilitate at some point, because i think most americans have a bad taste in their mouth because of theseidee negative attitude toward debate as a result.ñb

and debates are a really important function of a democrac 'sest ideas. it's how we come up with solutions. we need vibrantwhat we see modee presidential debates isn't necessar■pily talking points and sound bites and personal attacks a i hope that after thi hope we see a new generation of debate coming about.■j clea cony night, whawill you bing for? guest: it's a great question. we're hosting a watch party in new yo our community members, our supporters. we're together with john donvan of our host moderator. ercial break, which is another new thing about debates, ç1thrs history with commercial breaks. that does concern me. but we're gog to in new york. we're going to be

civility, for civil exchange, for for leadership, actually answering the not havig questions and actually workin m. host: clea conner, chief officeo debate. our viewers can learn more if you go opentodebate.org. you can follow on x at >> as we look forwar moments ben president donald trumppresident. we can create hard good jobs by making sure the environment is can and we are in better shape. administration or president who

has done more than i have done in three and a half years. >> tonight at 9:00 eastern for the second presidential debate of the 2020 campaign watch the 2020 for presidential debate simulcast thuray>> energy secretary jennir granholm was recently on capitol hill to testify on her department's policies and priorities before the house oversight and accountability committee. she faced questions on clean energy, liquefied natural gas export and u.s. watch her testimony tonight at , c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> the returns on tuesday at 12 noon eastern.

ohio republican congressman elect michael really wl be sworn in to the house later that day. he r former republican congressman bill johnson resigned i lawmakers will spend most of the week working funding the defens, homeland surity and state departments for next year. the sena continues its recess for the july 4 holay. membs will return for votes monday, july 8. watch live coverage of the house on-span, see the senate on c-span two. you can watch our congressional coverage with our free video app, c-span now, at c-span.org. >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. ■]since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill providing balanced unfiltered coverage of government. taking you to where the is debated and