♪ host: this is washington journal

for thursday, july 4. 248 years ago the u.s. declared its independence on the fourth of july seen as a day for americans to show their love of country. but at the u.s. gets ready to celebrate a new poll finds the majority of americans think the country is becoming less patriotic. we want to hear your thoughts on the continued decline in patriotism and if you consider yourself patriotic. here are the lines. eastern or central region, (202) 748-8000. now tim pacific, (202) 748-8001. -- mountain pacific. if you would like to text us, you can do so at (202) 748-8003. be sure to include your name and city. you can also pose a question or comment on facebook at facebook.com/c-span or on x at c-spanwj. it was released earlier this week. according to the poll, the question was patriotism in the u.s. compared with a few years

ago, do you think people in the u.s. are? 52% said less patriotic. 32% said about as patriotic. 14% said more patriotic. more details about the poll, the interviews were conducted june 10 through june 12. other outlets are also doing similar poles from gallup, american pride remains near record low. also coming out earlier this week, all showing two in five americans say they are "extremely proud" to be american. the fifth consecutive year this reading has been in this range. another 26% of u.s. adults say that they are very proud come

also in line with recent years. they did break that down into party, and it shows that 59% of republicans consider themselves extremely proud. 36% of independents, and democrats coming in at 34%. when it comes to parties in patriotism, the opinion piece, reclaiming the flag, patriotism belongs to no party. it is by the opinion contributor larry -- and he says that i will be flying the u.s. flag outside my house. this will be my small gesture of celebrating independence day and in a larger sense, a demonstration of my patriotism. it is a custom that may be considered a bit out of

character for a lifelong democrat since significant if you are members of my party now describe themselves as patriotic . the most recent polling says so as does my personal experience. for the past few years i've watched many members of my party shy away from such an overt act patriotism as flying the flight out of reluctance or just taste over the message it may convey. as we approach the holiday, i urge reconsideration. now more than ever it is crucial that the disaffected claim or reclaim their share of and demonstrated publicly. no party or sex should be allowed to claim sole ownership of all glory. for the first hour we do want to hear your thoughts on the perceived decline of patriotism and if you consider yourself patriotic. again, those lines.

the eastern or central region, (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific region, (202) 748-8001. we will start with melvin in richmond, virginia. go ahead, melvin. caller: host: melvin, are you there? caller: i am, can you hear me? thank you for taking my call. i feel of course very patriotic, personally. i know that america has its problems. we are a divided country, but despite all that, we have to try to stay united, at the states say. in order to make a more perfect union. and that takes work.

this current situation that we are under now with democrats and republicans, where everybody is questioning joe biden as to whether or not he is fit to be president is just an example. i personally feel that this whole debate -- and i call it debategate was really a debate on jo's part to get attention away from donald trump. he pretended to be a little bit under the weather, actually acting old and senile because if people realize or if they want later on after the debate, he was in waffle house laughing it up with folks. in the next day in north carolina, he was back to his old self.

but the media can't do anything with a country that is trying to work together, trying to be united, so they jumped on this story bite, as my uncle would say, a chicken on a june bug because it gives them a chance to divide us. we've got the msnbc-cnn on one side and we've got foxx and america, whatever that station is on the other side of the break so we have to try to overcome these things in order to be that more perfect union. host: how do we do that, melvin? caller: it's difficult. we have to get back to what the real problem is. and the problem is, in my humble opinion, the old saying economic

inequality where big corporations pay politicians to put up a two-sided situation to keep us fighting. if people weren't being robbed by these corporations, maybe they wouldn't be overly concerned about things such as immigrants. all these economic issues. and of course, the government in my humble opinion is the reason why we have inflation, because they spend too much money. they overspend. we had a $34 trillion deficit going on right now and it's continuing to grow every 100 days. host: we will go on to john in virginia. do you consider yourself

patriotic? caller: yes. i'm not watching the television, i'm listening to you on the radio since i don't have cable here. another question for you, that is i do plan to contact c-span. how the heck can i get a recording of a program that you had about a year and a half ago? i would be glad to pay for it, is there an address of someone i could contact as far as getting a copy from your tv station? host: all of our videos are in the c-span library. i understand you don't have an internet connection but if you have a local library or a friend, maybe somebody who can go on there for you, all the contact information and how to download a video is available on the website. caller: is there anyway i can go in washington and get it from your agency? host: honestly i'm not sure if we send out actual copies of programs. i don't believe we do. it is all digital these days.

caller: i may have to write to your address and see if i can speak to someone. i need to get patrick lahey when he announced he was leaving office, i was sad to see him go, but as far as patriotic, no, we are not. this is not what it 50 years ago. when i was a little boy growing up in jersey. particularly in the late 60's and 70's, i think ronald reagan helped boost our esteem as a nation, but no, we are not as patriotic as we were 60 years ago. a lot of my generation think about themselves, not about the country. as a part-time teacher in omaha, nebraska 35 years ago, we are not really caring about our country. my generation went through the school system. i do not think we are as

patriotic as we were 60 years ago. host: what about you personally? caller: i am. this may blow you away, but as a kid out of high school i started rotc. i've been affiliated with the military for 55 years. i think they are the only ones in our country who aren't patriotic even though we only have about 1% of the population serving in the armed forces. working with these guys, unfortunately that is only a small drop in the bucket. not many people spent 55 years affiliated, and i just left being a dod employee this december. but no, we were not patriotic. in the marine corps i had to hide in the backs of people wouldn't see me in my marine corps uniform and give me these dirty looks which i got.

these are some things where i say look, something a lot of people don't realize that still today, we have improved, but not worry were 60 years ago. host: thanks for your comments. jerad in delaware, go ahead. do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: i really do and it is a shame. i'm going to make my first point click on your patriotism question. i think the american flag has been co-opted by one party, the republican party so it is hard if you are a democrat to show your patriotism because we are striving for the hope of the country where a lot of times, the republicans are striving for the past of this country. so yeah, i'm very patriotic. my firstborn i named justice. i had a daughter three years

later and named her liberty. in my opinion i'm very patriotic, i care about this country, i want to see this country the best. but the one thing i want to say as well is that joe biden can be very, very patriotic. i think this would be great for the country, he could resign from the presidency, making kamala harris the first female president of the united states of america, the first black female president obviously of the united states of america. giving her six months in the presidency as she runs for reelection, she could potentially be the longest-serving president if she does that. i think it is a thought that galvanized the base, with progressive any minority vote and i think women would really get along knowing that their right to the protected. but yes, i'm patriotic. i just want to see what is best for the country.

follow trump is on stage hugging and kissing and pumping the flag. we all love america. just because we don't agree on every single thing doesn't mean we are not patriots. the list on the capital were insurrectionist and they need the imprison. i hope donald trump loses and democracy wins. host: patrick in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. patrick, do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: yes. i was a republican for 20 years and changed political parties when george bush jr. the sycophant ran for office and created a series of disasters. changing political parties in the year 2020, and then of course, the election was stolen and what we are witnessing now. reportedly cnn just admitted the truth, that this whole reality taking place with biden isn't about the fact that he has parkinson's possibly or some

type of degenerative disease. this is about the fact that the president is losing to trump. this was just on cnn. all we are witnessing is the constitution by report cartels that make up the deep state. a large portion of them are the media systems in america. at the american people want to save this country we only have two choices. one, to implement the -- of the media and strip away the spectrum from these corporations that are annihilating the united states. kamala harris would be an absolute dystopian nightmare for america. this has all been about to put her in place, to plug her in. she is a disaster, she is inapt and intellectually compromised as the president, and we need to move on and allow donald trump

to move in place. he deserve the position of the president and anybody turned around and the media authority tried to craft. they are simply about it. host: patrick, can you bring it back to the section about patriotism? what are your thoughts on patriotism? caller: my father with the commander of the lsi for the united states air force and my brother was hired after 30 years as operation director facility -- for seal team six. i live in a wonderful enclave and the people in this community are innately patriotic people and love the united states and they are trying to preserve this nation. host: mark in louisiana. do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: yes ma'am, i do. my grandfather, it was so bad

whenever he would talk about france, the tears rolled down his face remembering the carnage he saw. i tried to watch a lot of films about the wars and stuff just to know about our country, how we became what we are, the greatest nation on earth. and black americans and white americans, they were altogether. we were all one. nobody was wanting to fight in the war, they were all in it together. and then 9/11, everybody was together. when this country is in a bad way, the country comes together. i will say the biggest failure to me about what is hurting our country is being less patriotic than media. they divide us, they hurt us.

i always thought -- i'm not trying to pick one party or another, i don't care which side they would pick on to try to promote the other. they always thought that if they didn't do their job like they were supposed to do, everything that they report on both sides, that eventually it would hurt america. it would hurt our country. it would divide us so bad. we could do so much together as a country, you know? so much together. you know how you have kids, whenever they are in baseball, they do these little benefits so they can get their team to go play. we could do that when we see students who are poor black students, who need money to go

to college, whatever they want to do, learn a trade. we could do a benefit for them and everybody could come together to do that, but we have the media deciding this. i wish i could have a sit down with all the people that come on cbs, fox, all of them. i don't watch fox hardly anymore or cnn. i'm starting to watch cnn more only because they are showing more about biden. they are being more -- i don't know how to say it. before it was all about trump. i don't want to pick a side. i still remember when the first trillion dollars we borrowed, it was under reagan and everybody was freaking out over that and look where we are now. the money we owe now. we can work together, we could pay down our debt. we could really help one another. it wouldn't be people suffering and not having a job or

whatever. we could do so much more. host: got your point, mark. that last caller did point out the patriotism around 9/11, the gala prideful does note that america's national pride hired after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001. patriotism surged in the u.s., extreme pride has been trending downward since 2015. let's hear from mark in massachusetts. go ahead, charles. caller: i have two points. the last guy stole my thunder and met is what it is all about. patriotism. helping one another. nobody cares about each other anymore. neighbors don't even talk to each other. host: did you agree with the poll results that patriotism is

down? caller: absolutely, and it is a shame. nobody cares. the younger generation, i can't believe the poll is that low, really, but nobody cares. all they care about is themselves. i have another point, but yeah. the guy that doesn't have the internet and wanted to find archives of c-span, i've tried to call c-span in the past year. it's impossible to get a live person on the phone. i believe that your network is a totally liberal station. everybody on your air is liberal, and it is a shame.

who are the next three people you are having on to talk? are they all liberals? post: we have an author and another author, we are going to be talking about his theory. we do our best to make sure that everyone, every show is balanced between a mix of both conservative and liberal guests on and also independents everyday. let's hear from linda in westborough, pennsylvania. go ahead. caller: i think everybody needs to be patriotic. burning the flag is very, very wrong. what they've given up for us. they have to realize that. and if they want to keep it, they better vote for trump because we are losing it right now. i don't know if we can make it until then. but everybody needs to vote for

trump. host: laura in gaithersburg, maryland. caller: good morning. i consider myself to be patriotic. i love this country. i'm actually a constitutional libertarian. i don't believe in the two-party system. and i have to say that the guy earlier who said that joe biden was faking it during the debate, that's hilarious. he had dementia all the way back in 2019. that's why they hid him in the basement. they knew if you went out and tried to campaign people with ce had dementia than. when are the american people going to wake up and stop letting the democratic -- and they are not only democrats anymore, they are communist, marxist traders. and they are selling our country

down the river. when are they going to wake up at a stop believing the media who is nothing more than a propaganda machine for this democratic communist marxist? host: resident biden did make an appearance of the white house yesterday. that line from the associated press, biden bestows the medal of honor on union soldierso help hijacked trains in confederate territory. the article says president biden on wednesday awarded the medal of honor for gallantry to to union soldiers who stole a locomotive deep in confederate territory during the civil war and drove it north for 87 miles. u.s. army private philip -- and george wilson were captured by confederates and executed by hanging. biden recognized their courage 163 years later with the country's highest military

decoration, culling the operation they joined "one of the most dangerous missions of the tire civil war." here are some of president biden's comments yesterday at that event. president biden: ladies and gentlemen. until the very end, george and philip believed in the united states of america. the only nation on earth founded on an idea. every other nation on earth in the history of the world is based on geography, ethnicity, religion. some other attribute. we are the only nation founded on an idea, the idea that all men are created equal, deserve to be treated equally throughout their lives. we haven't always lived up to that but like george and philip we've never walked away from it, either. their heroic deeds went unacknowledged for over a century. time did not embrace their valor. they wanted to fight for what they fight for and what they

died for is just as precious today as it was then. unity over disunion. freedom over subjugation. progress over retreat. truth overlies. let me end with this. tomorrow is the fourth of july. another reminder of why it is so important to know our history. not to erase our history. remember the sacred cause of american democracy. not makeup a lost cause to justify the evil of slavery. to remember the nation that george and philip fought for and died for. the united states of america. that's who we are. the united states of america. there's nothing beyond our capacity in the united states if we work together. host: it is the fourth of july members of congress tweeting about the holiday. representative jim mcgovern. happy independenceay today we come together to

celebrate government of, by, and for the people. i hope you enjoy this day with falynd friends. representave roger williams of texas,odless the greatest uny in the history of the world, the united statesf america. today is a day to be with friends and family to celebrate the independence and freedom that we are blessed to enjoy each day. and one more, happy independence day. wishing everyonendailed seven congressional district and across the country a safe and festive celebration of democracy and freedom. back to the phones. james in fort washington, maryland. do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: yes i do. i'm 79 and i've always as an adult than patriotic. and probably when i was a teenager and younger just didn't know how to express it.

it is a trying thing for a lot of black people to constantly be patriotic and then to see a lot of the injustice that happens to us. you know, i saw a lot of my colleagues in vietnam who were tested fighting supposedly for the freedom of civil war in another country and then seeing rebel flags in the barracks and then when you got back over here, you saw certain injustices that were happening to you. and it is a constant fight, actually, a lot of black people to stay continuously patriotic. there is nowhere else for us to go. i would like to just make this country better for all people

rather than trying to be divided. i don't need to hear the pledge of allegiance to be patriotic. i don't need to have the star-spangled banner in order to be patriotic. it's just a natural instinct for me because i want to make things better, i want to leave it better than it was. that's put it like this. i want to make it better. i don't want to have it worse when i leave this earth. i would like to see it be better. yes, i'm patriotic. i guess i'm what you would call an arrogant american because i know i'm an american and i feel like we take it for granted. thank you very much. host: rick in iowa, good morning. caller: good morning.

so yeah, i would say patriotic. serve close to 35 years in the service, and i guess i'm just thinking about patriotism in this way. i'm a republican. about 95% of what i fear that comes from the democratic side i'm just totally against that. but let me tell you this. china, whoever would come up against the u.s. and push around what we do over here, i would stand shoulder to shoulder with any of them and fight against that today. i've been out of the service many years but i would certainly do that and i fly my flag proudly. for me, that is what it represents.

i'm ok, i'm great with being an american. host: that was rick in iowa. lake elsinore, california. good morning, lynette. caller: good morning. i consider myself to be patriotic. -- during desert storm and iraqi freedom. but the question i would pose to everyone here today is what doesn't really mean to be patriotic? one of the things i would say is going out and elections. another thing which he picked you are an american citizen, pay your taxes, no matter if you are corporate america for --, pay your taxes. meet with your elected officials. i hear a lot of back-and-forth between the liberals and republicans.

it's not about that, it's about the united states of america. we need to be patriotic you get involved. you do what is necessary to keep america strong, no matter what side of the aisle you stand on. you to the representatives and make sure they are speaking for your voice and not just for a political agenda. host: you serve in the military, it sounded like in the 90's, early 2000. compared to a few years ago, do you think people in the u.s. are 52% less patriotic? caller: i'm actually back in college also so i'm dealing with the younger generation. believe it or not, these young people have ideals of working to bring america together that are better than some of the things that my generation for the older generations are doing.

and if they come up and step up, you will see a patriotic next generation. but we have to show them the right way and quit all of this back-and-forth for political agendas and remember these young people will be leading america. what that caller said earlier about leaving america a better place than you found it. as a military service person, i always want to leave things better than when i found them, a matter where i am, stateside or out of this country. and i think if we do the right thing here and make sure we stand together on real issues of america and not just these political agendas, we will make america better than it was in earlier years and for the future of our young people.

host: it was lynette in california. she mentioned generation z. a poll compares the category of including patriotism with gen z, those ages 18 to 26 to 80 boomers, those ages 59 to 77. the younger generation says 32% say that patriotism and belief and god or having children are very important compared to 76% of baby boomers. andrew in new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i consider myself patriotic. it probably started with 9/11 when it really kicked in. my family has roots that go back to the 60's in america. i'm a democrat.

trump these last few years, he is such a threat to the way i look at my patriotism and my love for this country. my mother was from england and i considered pursuing an english citizenship, thank now we have this threat of trump back in. i recall watching trump on the call john mccain a loser. and how trump stands for america , it baffles me how people can twist their reality and rationalize how being a trump supporter and i'm a patriot. this guy led and insurrection against the country. he still pushes this big lie that he lost.

without that they live, there is no january 6. we have half the country. i listen to you guys in the morning. it is a knife in my gut twisting when i hear it. a lot of these republicans, these trump supporters talking and how what is happening to america, what has happened to the america i grew up with? just 50 years old. and i was younger, america was a much different place. i remember the parade down cooker avenue. it's changed a lot from then. and i just see it getting worse. i keep telling myself when trump is gone, with is it better? i don't know if it will. there's a lot of division in this country and it's frightening.

last lady that spoke, a lot of great things from them. hopefully we will come out of this somewhere down the road and get back to the kind of world we were as a unified country. i don't know when that's going to be. host: henry in new mexico. good morning, henry. do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: i do by all means. i am an 86-year-old retired military veteran. i spent 20 years in the air force. i joined the service back in 1956 immediately out of high school. i served 20 years and when i retired, i went to work shortly after for a major aerospace corporation. i spent 20 years with them and then i retired again. but of course during my military

career, i've always held a security clearance. first of all, initially just as a lower ranking mechanic on the military flightline. i ended up working for the aerospace corporation. but during that time, my security clearance went to a very high level. now, that doesn't make me an authority on six early clearance or anything, but being exposed to a lot of information and the handling of security documents, if i had broken any of the laws right now i would be incarcerated. so the situation is with the

handling of security documents by an ex-president, there should be no trial of any type. this particular situation should be settled. i don't care how you cut it. there was no excuse. with respect to the replacement of the president. >> mount vernon, new york, good morning. caller: good morning. host: do you consider yourself patriotic? caller: absolutely. i think a lot of people are calling in and saying i'm patriotic. somehow you've been here for a while and patriotism kicks in. i think if you are in this country and you are not patriotic to who you are and where you are in this country,

because there's a lot of so-called patriots who are in the military, who served for many years in the military and they went to meet putin, sit at putin's table who is another gentleman who went to meet putin on the world stage behind closed doors. nobody knows what that meeting was all about. and again, he said he fell in love with the other guy, the little guy over in north korea. but he left being patriotic. just because you spent 20 years in the military does not mean that your patriotic. post: what does it make somebody patriotic? >> i think if you are in this country and you respect the law, you love your neighbors, when you enter this country, you come into this country and in order

for you to form a perfect union, it's not about what i want, it is about what we want and what is best for us moving forward. there is another gentleman who said i disagree with the republicans or the democrats 95% of the time. how is that possible? because a policy makes sense to me i don't care what side you're on, you are going to vote for that policy because it makes is a perfect union. it makes us move forward. when you say i am patriotic but i don't agree with the other side 95% of the time, and some of those policies are good for us. if we move forward as a country, i have kids. i have my daughter. i don't want to see this. my daughter or my son, the same rights that their grandmother had.

i think a lot of us need to think about that. host: that was aaron. we will get back to your calls in just a few minutes. it is independence day here in the states but it is also an election date in the u.k., and we want to talk with the senior london playbook author for politico about the u.k. election. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you. >> it is the first u.k. general elections in 2019. who are voters going to be casting a ballot for today? >> the conservative party has been in power in this country for 14 years and the polls are suggesting that they are going to face one of the biggest projections by the electorate for any government that has pretty much served in modern times in the united kingdom.

polls open until 5:00 on the east coast this afternoon. a good idea of who has won tomorrow, it is all very quick in this country. and that would be the person who has won at least 326 seats. in the u.k., we don't have one national proportional election, we have 650 million elections, and the party with the most can have the prime minister. so we will know overnight because the seats can very quickly, probably about 4:00 in the morning. host: in addition to the current prime minister, rishi sunak, there are three other people on the ballot could potentially be

the next prime minister. tell us about those people. start technically there are three or four or five, but really there is only one person on the ballot who could be prime minister other than rishi sunak because of the way this electoral system works, and medical leader of the labour party. he's been in charge for just over four years, taking the labour party from the left-wing radical party under its last leader to a party that is now firmly planted in the center ground, alienating quite a lot of the left and appealing to a lot of conservative voters. the reason that is important is that a lot of the center ground voters are in these swing seats for the leaders from becoming prime minister. our polls are suggesting he is going to win an absolutely extraordinary number of seats. talking about the mid 400s. that is more than double the

number of seats that he has now. and the reason for that is partly because the tories are being rejected. we talked people in the streets, politicians. it is not about positivity, it is about rejection. and also, a liberal democrats, the centrists for the european party are set to pick up more seats. and before him u.k. which is a right wing party led by nigel faraj, an ally of donald trump, they are said to pick up a lot of votes the expense of the tories as well. so there is a movement coming in on the tories and it looks like the labour party is going to be the big. host: you mentioned that he has been the head of the labour party for the last four years and likely the next prime minister. what should people know about

him, what is his reputation and what would that party focus on if and when they get into power? caller: you've probably seen a bit about u.k. politics, and what you probably seen as most of the chaos and the changes of leaders, liz truss who was prime minister for 49 days. forrest johnson. in contrast to all of that, the slightly boring to come up lawyer, who has positioned himself at the men get stuff done, who doesn't upset the apple card. that has led to a debate about what they will actually do in government. labour party has some big policies, building 1.5 million homes over five years and billions of pounds on free energy, decarbonizing the electricity grid by 2030, dealing with some really troublesome broken state services here like childcare and things like that which are

having -- critics say there are not enough child-minded to fill the gap. the question is how are always big targets achieved if we don't spend a large amount more money? in this country the labour party has developed a reputation rightly or wrongly to pocket other people's money. the tories sees on that, and so he has been very careful not to announce new spending, new tax rises beyond a few limited ones. and so the amount of money he's promising is actually quite restrictive and after years of austerity and spending plans going forward, a lot of think tank experts are saying i don't understand how he's going to achieve what he says he's going to achieve without more borrowing, etc. that's going to be the really interesting question.

he says he's going to do it by growing the economy that is obviously a big downfall, is a long-term project and it seems like covid and the war in ukraine showed. host: you are right, the u.k. elections are much quicker than u.s. elections. what happens next, when are you expecting results and when would a new government officially take over? guest: we are expecting results between 11:00 p.m. our time and 6:00 a.m. our time. that all happens very quickly and then the changeover of government happens like lightning as well. there's no transition period in the u.k. we would expect if he loses rishi sunak to come back out because even the prime minister as a constituency here. it is about a 200, 300 mile

journey. he would be back in downing street maybe around dawn, slightly after. he would give a speech midmorning tomorrow, late morning probably, saying i tried my best, i'm going to secede, going to see the king, hand in my resignation. he arrives at buckingham palace. at the same time a car is going to pick up the leader of the labour party to take into buckingham palace. there is about an hour crossover were we don't have a prime minister and the king will invite him to form a government, he will say can you command thousand comments? and if labor has 400 mps, it is obvious he can and he will come straight to downing street about a five minute drive through the most historic streets of london and he would stand outside downing street and give a speech that nears rishi sunak's speech may be hours earlier.

he would say it is traditional for prime minister's to give a 10 minute to 50 minute speech outlined the things they want to do for the country. the speeches are often taken at a reference point years down the line of if they actually achieve what they said they were going to achieve event appoint a cabinet tomorrow night and tomorrow afternoon and jr. ministers over the weekend and the idea is that by sunday or monday we would have a fully functioning government before parliament returns on tuesday. host: if you'd like to follow the election results, you can find him on x and you can also find reporting online. have a long day ahead of you. thank you for taking some time to be with us. caller: thank you. host: we will go back to our question, asking about your thoughts on patriotism and if you consider yourself patriotic. we have about 10 minutes left.

we will talk with philip in california. caller: thank you for taking my call. the previous test makes me so thankful that we don't have a parliamentary system. that definitely seems quite chaotic. but nevertheless, it is their system and you have to respect it. on a personal note, as a family of immigrants from the former soviet union, patriotism is definitely something that is just ingrained when you come from a totalitarian country and you know all of the freedom that you don't have any come to a country that you obviously have it. it is something that you learn the value and appreciate. one thing that i will say is that probably since covid, like a lot of americans, that

patriotism may have waned a little bit. it is difficult to go through period in which you essentially feel like nothing is true and you are being manipulated and the people who are so as to be so one to uphold the constitution just basically tell you left and right to just follow orders and force vaccinations and all kinds of documentations, basically enjoy life as we call them, to just enjoy your basic pay. that was definitely a time which i think was one of the worst. since the japanese internment of american history and for that reason i think that it's understandable for people to have that. the other thing that is really critical is our election. i think our election integrity also causes patriotism to wayne. we really need to restore a sense of not questioning people,

not punish them, not attack them. if they have questions and concerns about our election integrity, the thing to do is to reassure them, to put things in place, mechanisms that make them have no doubt that our elections are absolutely ironclad secure. host: dave in maryland. good morning, dave. caller: good morning. yes, i consider myself a patriot. but i must respond to the caller who talked about the bias of c-span. how on earth can you have a bias when you allow an individual who has expressed their feelings themselves? c-span has no influence into what i'm about to say like any other color. so how can you be more fair than that? now, getting back to this patriotism thing, i think we

began to see patriotism waning when, in my opinion, we got rid of the necessity or the responsibility of each person having some skin in the game. and what i mean by that is when we got rid of the draft. it's easy to sit on the sidelines and disparage people to volunteer who serve in the military, put themselves at risk. and when they do it, you on the sidelines throw stones and talk about that very thing. i will end with this. i've heard so many republicans talk about democrats hate america. i would advise them to take a trip right down south to the vietnam memorial wall and tell

those democrats service members who have passed that they hate america. it hurts when you hear that kind of thing. so i thank c-span for allowing me to express my opinion and to continue to be fair as you always have. thanks a lot. host: let's hear from william in chicago, illinois. morning, william. caller: the question is, patriot? absolutely. served four years in the u.s. navy, active three years reserve. three years as a civilian federal job, so indeed i am a patriot. my question is this defining

patriotism here? who is defining it? post: how would you define it? caller: i think about service. i think about the service that my maternal family has in the spanish-american war. i think about service as a schoolteacher. i think about service as protecting the u.s. constitution. but also i think that patriotism is willing to educate yourself. let me give you a case in point. patriotism is not the same as it was 60 years ago, but that is your experience.

because my experience is totally different than his. 65 years ago, my grandma could not even vote in the state of mississippi. so he needs to understand that experiences are totally different in america, and that is why history is important. another thing is let's say educate yourself. there's a woman that said that democrats are communists, socialists. a totally different ideology. it would be like me saying conservatives in the same. no, conservatism is not the same. i think people also need to understand the power of being a patriot. host: we will go to algernon in new jersey, good morning. caller: happy fourth of july to

all other americans out there who celebrate the independence of our country. i'd like to point out to you as an african-american, you a patriot has always been part of my experience. according to the daughters of the american revolution, 611 african-americans fought in the revolution, although some of them had to go back into slavery after the revolution was over and never really enjoyed the fruits of their sacrifices during the american revolution. for generations yet unborn, and they expect that. they knew they were going to experience that but they did and for generations to,. in the same civil war of the

209,000 african-americans who fought for the union. what troubled me today is i hear many people from the republican party calling and questioning other people's patriotism and ignore the fact that their party -- not antifa, not the fbi, tried to overthrow the government on january 6. people who carried a confederate flag to the capitol read and to murder nancy pelosi. they are not patriots. i challenge any of you republicans who claim to be patriots to excuse such a thing. you tie yourself in knots trying to excuse such a thing. and he wasn't done. he cap classified document and wouldn't give them back. and you claim to be patriots? i don't know how you do that.

you talk about the vision in the country. one party is trying to divide the country. don't complain about how divided the country is. when you talk about immigration, that they really divisive issue. accusing all mexicans of being criminals and errors? -- murderers? host: we believe that they are. want to get in one last call. colorado springs. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am a disabled veteran and that does not make me patriotic. i have serious reservations about celebrating the fourth of july this year, especially after

what the supreme court did. patriotic is not saluting the flag or wearing a maga shirt or buying flags and bibles with trump's name stamped in it. being a patriot is treat your fellow man like you want to be treated and making sure every american has equal rights, women's rights. trump and maga and what the supreme court did, thank you for destroying america as we know it. host: that doesn't for the first hour of today's "washington journal." up next, author corey mead will join us and discuss his book the hidden history of the white house: power struggles, scandals come and defining moments. and later television host

alexander heffner will talk about the new season of his show and efforts to forge political unity and stability. we will be right back. ♪ >> celebrate independence day during our fourth of july sale at c-spanshop.org. save up to 15% on all c-span products. there is something for every c-span fan. every purchase helps support our nonprofit organization. scan the code or go to c-spanshop.org to shop our fourth of july sale. >> friday nights watching c-span's 2024 campaign trail. a weekly round up campaign coverage providing a one stop

shop for what candidates are saying to voters. a sneak peek at this year's democratic national convention in chicago. we will speak with the d&c executive and host executive director with a preview of the convention and efforts to raise money. and eric kincaid up to chicago in its efforts to connect local businesses to the convention. you can watch the campaign trail preview of the republican national convention anytime on our website. watching c-span's 2024 campaign trail online at c-span.org or download as a podcast on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> american history tv on

c-span2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. observing the 160 first anniversary of the battle of gettysburg. american history tv will feature programs on the history of the civil war battle. a historian shares how he combined 3d technology with period photographs to reveal where abraham lincoln stood when he delivered the gettysburg address in 1863. at 3:00 after sam waterson and martin sheen -- actors sam waterson and martin sheen visit the location where lincoln gave the gettysburg address and the book about the months in 1860 between the president winning the election and the bombing of fort sumter. watch american history tv's series historic convention speaking featuring notable remarks by figures from the past several decades.

former california governor ronald reagan accepted his party's nomination at the 1980 republican convention in detroit. he calls on americans to recapture our destiny and cut taxes and increased defense spending. at 8:00 eastern, discussion on the development of weaponry on civil war battlefields. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturday on c-span2 and find the full schedule on your progra guide. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. joining us is corey mead, author of the hidden history of the white house: power struggles, scandals come and defining moments. welcome to the program. tell us about your book.

guest: this book is unusual. it is affiliated with a popular podcast called american history tellers which has about 2 million downloads per episode and it has a good 300 episodes by now. they are long-running. the thought with the book was a lot of american history tellers listeners are passionate about history so this was a way of providing a wonderful companion piece to the podcast. it is not material recycled from the podcast, it is brand-new. the thing about american history tellers is told in a style that is very immersive, first person. that is what i wanted to do with my book. a lot of people think of history as being a dusty thing up on the shelf that is irrelevant. probably not c-span viewers but a lot of people.

i wanted to tell the story in the way american history tellers tells the story, which is very much what is happening in that moment. obviously the subject matter, the hidden history of the white house, the thought was it being an election year when everyone is thinking about the white house, who the next occupant might be both provide a broad historical overview of a lot of the personalities and situations from the dramatic to the sublime to the ridiculous that have occurred within the spaces and give a great context on the history of the residents of the building and left the fact of being a resident of that building does dear day-to-day experience. host: before we get into some of that history of the white house, what was the thinking behind the creation of the building in the first place? how did it get its name. guest: it did not popularly

become called the white house until teddy roosevelt. the initial thought -- the initial name was the president's palace. this was in the late 1700s when washington and madison and jefferson together set up a plan for what we call the federal city, which was to be a 10 mile square area on the banks of the potomac where the new federal government would be located. washington had long been an advocate for development along the potomac. he had a vested interest. his house was along the potomac. he sought as the waterway that could connect the atlantic to the west. within the federal city itself, the actual location of the president's palace was on what was formerly farmland.

it was forest. a lot of people think of washington, d.c. is being built on a swamp and parts of it were but it was also heavily forested and there were farms. it was a lovely spot. it was only after the initial designer was fired for being too dominant that it took on the name the presidents house instead and that is what people called it for decades until teddy roosevelt popularized the white house. host: you talk about what was there before the building was -- the book uses the phrase colonial backwater. why was that location chosen if it was what it was? guest: this had a lot to do with washington's influence. washington was the most powerful

person in the united states and grew up in the general region and strongly believed in the potomac as a shipping center to connect east and west and with no small amount of mind that it would benefit him financially. host: when did the building start and how long did it take? the -- talk about the history of the building. guest: there was a 10 year window. it had to finish by november 1, 1800 starting in 1790. the initial foundations were duck out by enslaved black men and then starting in 1791 when they began clearing the land, felling trees. the broad avenues that sweep through d.c. come many of those were heavily forested. the problem is cutting down trees and hauling up stumps, there were dead animals, fences,

farms, graveyards. that was the most arduous part in terms of the physical labor before moving into the building of the house itself. host: we are talking with author corey mead about his new book, the hidden history of the white house. if you have a question or comment for corey you can start calling now. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans bang (202) 748-8001 and if you're an independent, (202) 748-8002. let's talk about the actual building itself and some of the events that happened in those buildings. your book talks about andrew jackson's inauguration in 1829. an excerpt from the book. as jackson arrived at the white house after his inauguration where he would host an reception for supporters.

was a tradition that dated back to jon. appeal upended any sense of protocol. before the president arrived rooms were already stuffed with and low, old and young, blackh and whitee attendee noted. past inaugural day opening houses have been tame. congressman mixed with labors. commoners with foreign diplomat. the reign of king bob sd e judge -- the reign of king mob said one judge who almost immediately fled the scene." what did early celebrations at the white house look like? guest: there was a tradition after the president's inaugural speech of hosting a reception at

the white house where people could come and shake the presidents hand. those had always been tame affairs attended by political dignitaries. no one was prepared for what happened with jackson, especially because jackson was the first president that was considered a man of the people. he was from humble origins. even for jackson's inauguration -- i verrilli loud cat. -- i have a really loud cat. one second. that was probably a first. host: we are talking with author corey mead.

i'm only sad we did not get to see the cat. guest: when jackson's inauguration day came tens of thousands of people streamed into d.c., the likes of which have not been seen on inauguration before. jackson supporters considered him one of them. there were a 30,000 people traipsing into washington that day. for jackson's actual inaugural speech from the capital, the streets were packed everywhere you could see. after the speech when jackson got on his grant whitehorse to go down pennsylvania avenue to the white house come all of the people followed with him. even just getting from the capital to the white house took ages. by the time jackson got to the white house the place was absolutely packed. the white house staff had thrown open the windows so people could climb in the windows. that excerpt you read about the mob that was there horrified

those onlookers who were used to the more traditional white house affairs and people were standing on c and everything else. dishes were crashing out of theirands. it was too crowded. jackson was shaking hand after hand and getting pressed up against the wall by this mob of supporters and his aides did a protective barrier to try to protect him and keep people from literally crushing him. a quick thinking white house stewart decided the best way to get people to leave the building would be to fill tubs with alcohol and track them out on the white house lawn and it was thought people would chase the alcohol and he did so and he was right. people were rushing out the doors and finally gave jackson aides the breathing room they needed to take him back to his hotel. host: it was common in that time

for those visitors to be at the white house because the white house was open, visitors could go in and interact with the president and shake his hand. when did we start seeing the white house become more secure to where we are now? guest: is a much more recent thing that the white house is as secure as it is. there was long tradition throughout the 1800s of presidents having certain days of the week set up for anyone to visit them. i think the problem for presidents throughout those years, the fact that 70 people who came to see them were seeking office. there were some initial security concerns after the assassination attempt of william mckinley, but the extent to which you would think of the security like we have today is a 20th century invention and increasingly so over the years.

there have been times where there is a massive renovation at the white house and the truman family had to move across the street and there was an assassination attempt right in front of their house against truman were a agent was killed. the hyper secure environment we see today is only within the last 80 or so years. host: let's hear from mike in ohio on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: i have a question and he goes back to franklin roosevelt. there was a plot to seize the white house and they tried to bribe marine general butler into an overthrow with him organizing the world war i veterans and the people i did were the industrialists and a big backer was cj morgan, he sent a guy in

the tried to talk smedley into the overthrow. he played along and lead to relevant know about what was happening and roosevelt said this was so big we will have to sweep it under the white house -- under the rug. i wonder if you have anything you can say about that story on the plot to seize the white house? guest: i do not cover that story. it is a great story that could have easily fit into the book. the fdr story in the white house deals with when winston churchill came to visit and stayed at the white house for a month at the beginning of america's entry into world war ii and the bond by having the two leaders for a good month in the strategy they developed during that time that allowed the allies to win world war ii. i do not have the overthrow

story but it is a fantastic story. host: joe in wilmington, north carolina. democrats line. guest: i appreciate that. as a historian, author, veteran i would like to say jackson tales of his postelection party getting out of hand, a lot of that came from adams and clay's political correspondence trying to make a bigger show than it was, although jackson's family members and his staff members that had been with him since the creek indian wars through new orleans could not imagine planning that. i want to talk about a lot of transitions.

i am thinking of garfield -- after garfield was assassinated by a crazy guy they put together an early refrigerator system in the white house. that is something unusual. as well as theodore roosevelt wanting to put a tennis court in because he liked to play tennis among other martial arts things. we forget about the riding stable and all of that about the white house during that time. i just thought you might want to comment about some of those things. coolidge's son delivered a blister on his foot playing tennis without socks in the best surgeons in washington could not save him from that. can you explain about that. i will listen to you off-line. good day.

guest: is sort of a famous tradition throughout the history of the white house that each president adds touches that suit their own needs. the story in the book is about gerald ford installations of the white house swimming pool and that is a more lighthearted story. your question speaks to the interesting thing about the white house and what makes it a unique structure is the fact that on one hand it is iconic, it represents america itself on the national stage. when you say the white house you're talking about the president and you say the president you're talking about running america. it is also a workspace. it is where the president and the president's team does the work of the presidency. more than that it is also a residence and it is where the presidential family lives with a tight group of staff in very

close quarters. a lot of people who visit comment about how much smaller the white house is than you would imagine on the outside. that triple function is what makes it stand out compared to a lot in the world in terms of where the leaders operate. because of that triple function, what you are saying about the little additions each family makes because it has to be the place where they are living and working throughout the four to eight years they are in office. host: you mentioned the white house is also the residency. another excerpt from your book talking about quote is "edith saw the bedroom phone would connect her the white house switchboard and alert the number of staffers to the president dd decline after a moments hion she hurried down the hall to a private phone that connected directly to the room.

she heard the voice of trusted white house veteran ike hoover on the other end, please get dr. grayson on the president is si, she said. edith arof flood- edith heard a thud that soundedike someone falling on the floor. she saw woodrow lying unconscious on the floor, blood pooled around his head." that is talking about president woodrow wilson stroke and the fact that his wife edith served as a shadow president after that happened. talk about the residence and how it was set up and how she was able to pull that off because about the white house is set up. >> the background to that story is the fact that woodrow wilson had a stroke in 1919 and he had been following a punishing

schedule for months before that because he was trying to set up the league of nations in the aftermath of world war i to make sure that global catastrophe could not happen again. he basically worked himself to a state of pure exhaustion and as a result had a massive stroke. the moment of that stroke is the excerpt you read. edith and wilson's dr. decided the best motivator for wilson to heal would be to continue his fight for the league of nations and it was believed he would revive and function as president again, as opposed to what the constitution would say in that situation that the president was unfit to serve in the vice president takes over. in that case he had a vice president would not have wanted

to serve. essentially it was a conspiracy to the news from the general public. it was a very tight group of people that wilson and dr. grayson allowed to know about wilson's condition. edith wilson essentially became -- you could call her the first female president, the shadow president, because she was in charge. the thing about that is edith herself did not have an interest in politics. her interest was her husband and nursing his health. a lot of what she did as president was more about what she did not do. she did not answer rings detailing things they needed or function that would've been done in the past by the president like signing off on political appointments. official members -- summit of

mr. risch and officials took matters into their own hands -- some administration officials took matters into their own hands. host: looks like we lost corey's auido. we will work on getting him back. we are talking about his book the hidden history of the white house. one of cory's examples he uses in his book is the stroke that president woodrow wilson had fact that his wife edith was able to take over and act as a shadow president. host: it looks like we have core y back. we lost your audio. go ahead and pick up where you left off. you are talking about edith wilson taking over the

presidency after woodrow wilson had his stroke. guest: how far along that story was i? host: i believe you are talking about the ability for them to covertly handle, the ability to handle the situation without members of the cabinet finding out. guest: i am not quite sure where i cut off, talking about their effort to keep his condition hated from the american public and the thought -- his condition hidden from the american public and that would not alarm the public backfired because rumors group. people said the president had gone insane in the absence of real information. the information works both ways in the sense edith only wanted wilson to hear positive information because she thought negative information would upset

him and be harmful to his recovery. he had a wildly inaccurate portrait of what was happening with the passage of the league of nations. there were senator strongly opposed it. instead of making the changes he would've needed to make to ensure its approval, he refused to do anything because he believed he had support and his vision would win out. the great strategy is he had his stroke in the effort to pass the league of nations but because of the way his recovery was handled the league of nations never passed and he never came anywhere close to recovering his previous faculties. for the last two years of his presidency edith acted as the shadow president. host: let's hear from ben in california on the democrats line. caller: my question for the author is is there a racial

history behind the name white house and that it was originally designed to serve as a white supremacist -- and for that reason we should change it to the american house and the people's house. guest: i have not heard that story. certainly when it was built america it was a society for whites. it would not have been thought there would be black presidents at the house, certainly not beyond staff. the people's house is what it was called for a very long time. there would certainly be history to call it that. host: let's hear from tony in minneapolis on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for having me on. you are doing an excellent job and thank you to the guest.

just going off of the last caller in regards to segregation and the discrimination that the history of the white house is known for, i have a hard time remembering what president was in power when they went in and segregated the lunchrooms for the staff that ate in the white house and worked throughout it and also about the bombing of the white house and who worked the hardest -- or who put in a lot of effort to save that from burning completely to the ground. you touched briefly on the parts of the white house. people used to be able to access it freely. who were the guards standing out front -- and the president who was fdr when they called up billie holiday to sing and how they had her go through the back

door while inviting her and how his wife eleanor worked hard for him to -- for her to put on an excellent performance. what does the fourth of july mean to an and enslaved black american? thank you so much and happy holiday. guest: to the caller say the bombing of the white house or the burning of the white house? host: i believe he said burning. guest: i will start there because that is where the book starts and it is something that took place in 1814 during the war of 1812 when the british marched into washington and torched the city to an extent i do not think a lot of people realize. you mentioned about washington being a colonial backwater. it was still thought of that way during the war of 1812. president madison and residents of d.c. did not think d.c. was in any danger when british warships appeared nearby because

why would anybody burn d.c.? it is nothing place. they assumed baltimore was the intended target of the british. there is a famous story that on the day the british burned the white house -- dolley madison had a party set for 3:00 that day, the table was set, food was laid out. when the british actually begin -- when it became clear the british were heading for washington, she and the rest of the white house staff had to gather as many valuables as they could. there is a famous story of dolley madison having the famous gilbert stuart portrait of george washington cut out of its frame and rolled up so she could take that. they barely made it out. when the british arrived in d.c. they first went to the capital. it was still under construction. a lot of british regulars and soldiers themselves were stunned because they do not think it was possible that americans should

bring such grand structures. when they were given orders to torch it a lot of them were upset because it was such a beautiful place -- they felt bad about destroying it. they did and as they marched down pennsylvania avenue, telling residents there was nothing to worry about, people were shouting various epithets. then when they reach the white house and went inside and they saw the food in the trach were set out at the dinner table the first thing they did was eat the food. they were happy. it had been a long hot day in the summer. then they marched upstairs into james madison's and dolley medicines rooms and trot on their clothes. then they took anything that was loose, everything else and piled in a big pile downstairs and burned it. white house was built with stonewalls.

that was washington specifications. though survived the burning. aside from that it was pretty well torched and madison was across the river in virginia making his escape and he kept turning back to see washington burning. the people in the virginia countryside were upset. they blamed madison for the war and the british invasion. when dolly was trying to find a place to stay for the night people refusing to let her in and were blaming her and her husband for what they believed as his failure. your caller asked about the work of rebuilding. the work of rebuilding was a combination of enslaved blacks, free blacks, black-and-white indentured servants, and craftsmen and stonemasons. they perform the work of rebuilding which happened quickly all things considered. as far as other questions -- it

was a long list of questions. do you remember some of the other questions? host: we will just go on to the next. we had a caller who asked about the name the white house and from the white house historical association, how to the white house get its name, it says "there is a popular misconception that the white house was first painted white to cover the scorch marks left by british soldiers in 1814. the white house first received a lime based white loss in 1898 -- to protect from cracking. the term white house was used in periodicals throughout the 19th century but most citizens referred to it as the president's house or the executive mansion.

on october 17, 1901, president theodore roosevelt secretary sent a letter to secretary of state john hay asking the secretary and his staff to change the headings or date lines of all official papers and documents requiring roosevelt signature from executive mansion to white house. similar directives were sent to other cabinet secretaries and roosevelt changed the presidential stationary shortly thereafter as well." guest: i was going to say that. host: let's hear from alan in hawaii on the independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i will throw a couple things that you and hopefully you can give me response. this has to do with the phone calls. the most important topic i will bring up is something a

researcher on jfk is investigating and has been for many years, which had to do with the day after the assassination of john f. kennedy. lyndon johnson, the first full day in the white house, november 2020 3 -- november 23 had a phone call with fbi director hoover. they had a tape recording machine which recorded all of the calls from the moment johnson first entered the oval office and that recording was erased according to the national archives. there was an interesting transcript that remains which according to analysts -- not from the warren commission which did not investigate it at all -- but the next investigation that was done several years later, it was questionable as far as the duration of the transcript versus the time-lapse. the transcript was vague.

the interesting thing is -- by the time watergate came around and people were talking about the recordings nobody remembered this issue. it was not very well covered in the media at all. i was curious if you had any knowledge of that and phone calls lyndon johnson made from the oval office to dallas to ask if he could get a concession from lee harvey oswald is our questions because a friend of mine is writing his second book on the kennedy assassination and these are topics of his future book that never got written, he passed away last year. it was an interesting concept because i thought your touching on these nerves. i don't know how much research you've done on this because you have a lot of stuff to deal with. that is what i was going to ask

. guest: i am sorry to hear about david. i do not cover that. there is a thought of a series of books. i will just speak to the book itself. you can have as many stories obviously left out and then you can have untold numbers above that. all of these ideas people are bringing in about things i do not cover in the book -- there will be another book. host: we are talking about corey mead about his book, the hidden history of the white house. we have about 20 minutes left with him if you have a question or comment. the lines are democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002.

let's hear from tom in louisiana on the independent line. good morning. caller: is a very interesting program. i would like to ask did nixon put in the bowling alley and is it true that elvis wanted to knock on the door to get in? guest: i don't know about the elvis thing. it is certainly true about the bowling alley. nixon love to bowl. nixon did not have a lot of friends. he was a very lonely man. he did corral various white house staff members into bowling and he kept late hours so there was one white house staffer, it might have been an electrician where nixon asked if he wanted to bowl, and he said sure that i

need you to write a note to my wife so she will know i was not out running around all hours. nixon wrote him a note. apparently the man still has that note all of these years later in his house. host: you mentioned earlier in the program set winston churchill visited the white house. this eer from your book. "wri a white coat and polkadot tie winston churchill ambled through the sea of reporters to franklin roosevelt cluttered wooden desk, seating himself to roosevelt's right. churchill adjusted a wire basket of papers and silver thermos on the desk in front of h, his eyes twinkled, his pink skin appeared scrubbed, his ever present cigar claimed firmly between his teeth. the 67-year-old churchill had

arrived in washington the night before for his first ever white house vit. the occasion was momentous. talk about foreign leaders visit to the white house and the significance of that. guest: broadly speaking -- the churchill visit when he stayed for a month was unusual in the length of this day and the bond that was formed between the leaders during that stay. with the white house serving its triple function it raises the symbolism of formal white house dinners when they have political leaders visit because it is a place that is so all-encompassing for a president. there are famous stories about various celebrities or dignitaries staying in the lincoln bedroom. that is a rite of passage. it is also true as for the upkeep of the white house. in my book, there is a shocking

number of times and white house history when the building has been falling apart, decrepit and in shambles. in general the first floor, the reception rooms, the formal dance floor where they host political leaders and the like has been cap looking better -- has been kept looking better. there were times when the trumans moved in when it was falling apart. furniture collapsing. plaster holes. that is sort of the upstairs downstairs effect of the white house. host: crake in texas on the democrats line. good morning. (202) 748-8000 -- caller: good morning. i have some questions to ask you. when i was coming up as a kid i

did not understand the fact that they were saying we pledge allegiance to the flag and when you were in school you are not american, you are communist. i did not know they were talking to me. when they built the white house i did not know that the slaves built the white house for free and nobody talks about that. we have someone of a different race writing books and telling our story and nobody comments but when we do it nobody -- when we do it they have a problem with it. every holiday is their independence. when the black soldiers came back they did not have freedom. we were still slaves. then you talk about thanksgiving. all of your holidays have something to do with celebrating how you enslaved people. i don't understand thanksgiving. i don't understand what all these holidays are about. i am matted black leaders. they should not be -- i am mad

and black leaders. we are celebrating this. every holiday you have has something to do with the terror and the abuse of people especially people of color and we are celebrating. our people are waking up. i am matted black people leaders. host: let's just get a response from the guest. anything for greg? guest: in the book i have a chapter about the building of the white house that talks about the contribution enslaved black men made. there is a story in the book that speaks to a bit of what the caller is saying and also the previous question about the visit booker t. washington made to the white house in 1901 to visit with teddy roosevelt. the story that teddy roosevelt

assumed office -- he had only been in office three weeks or so. at the time booker t. washington was probably the most famous black man in america or the world. he toured europe and had a best-selling autobiography. he and roosevelt had been friends for quite a while. roosevelt relied on washington for advice about politics in the south and washington spent the night at roosevelt's family home in waster bay long island. when roosevelt was in the presidency he was eager for advice so he wrote to washington and he asked him to come to d.c. so they could talk about what political progress might be made in the south. when washington arrived in d.c. he was shocked when he received an invitation to go have dinner. that was because of the fact

that in the south blacks and whites did not dine together in the same house. there was a belief among southern whites that if you invited a black man to dine at your table you are inviting him to sleep with the women in your house. roosevelt was a northerner. when washington received information he was worried about what to do because he was worried there could be backlash. he ultimately decided that he wanted to be giving roosevelt the advice because he could advise him to a port -- to a point on black interest and he felt he could not turn down an invitation to the white house. so he went, they had their dinner. everything went fine. they went upstairs and smoked cigars afterwards.

when the news broke out that washington had dined at the white house -- your previous call mentioned something like this. there had been blacks in the white house as staff, there had been entertainers that performed , but nobody had been invited to sit down and have a formal dinner. the southern press was incensed by the news that washington had dined, in part because they consider the white house to be in the south and the vitriol and the hatred that spewed out towards roosevelt and washington itself. i quote some of it in the book but it is the most hateful rhetoric you can imagine. soiling the white house, soiling the nation. what right did roosevelt have and what right did washington have, he "should have known his place." it badly damaged roosevelt's reputation in the south and also damaged washington reputation for many years among a lot of white southerners.

that speaks to the racial tensions and the racial symbolism of the white house. host: your book came out just last month. how long did it take you to put it together and talk about your process, your research. guest: it was an insane timeframe because the publisher wanted to time the book publication before the election. i had to write and research the whole thing in about eight and a half months, which is much shorter than i would normally use for a book. there are 50 different chapters so each was a separate research process. luckily given the nature of the white house there is lots of information. you mentioned the white house historical association. the book itself was a writing

process much quicker than one i ever had before. luckily i was going back and forth about materials that was really helpful. it was a high-speed effort. caller: inputting the book -- host: inputting the book together or the research did anything surprise you or stick out as interesting? guest: i was struck again and again by how bad the conditions in the white house were. so any time throughout the years. you think of it as this beautiful structure and it certainly is, but the way that has been the exterior more than the interior throughout its history. that partly speaks to the residents themselves. fdr and eleanor were the shabby aristocratic types. it was always struck by how often that came up. host: let's hear from thomas in

north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask your guest come in the mid-1970's i was on a limited tour of the white house. i think we just saw one room, the east room. to they currently have tours of the white house? guest: there are still tours of the white house. i did the same thing is you and i was 13, we went and took the white house tour. it is not something i would've thought of previously but i remember being struck by the fact that you could go in the white house. i thought it was while you could get in line and when your time in line came you were taken to the white house. it is a limited section but it is remarkable that this place

where the president is living and working is open to the public in whatever form. i mentioned earlier, the federal city, the initial designer of the federal city modeled it on this grand european tradition of the cities with the difference that it was a city public could access in the city was for the people themselves. the fact that he could enter the white house speaks to that initial conception. host: according to the white house's website the tours are offered. public tours can be requested through your member of congress and the congressional tour coordinator. go to whitehouse.gov, it does give you instructions on how to do that and requirements. let's hear from barbara in new york on the democrats line.

good morning. caller: how are you doing? host: doing well. my question is like this. my uncle adopted me as a baby. my doctor saved me because i was on the edge of dying. within a week i would've been dead. point being people today on the news, they speak with a lot of college language that a lot of citizens do not understand what they are saying so they turn the news often they go to other tv shows, like the old shows on tv. the old shows are always good like perry mason and colombo. you know what i am saying. things like that. they need to speak a lower level of english. they cannot go at college level. they are trying to make

themselves them smart and all of that. host: barbara, we are talking about the hidden history of the white house. you have a question for him? caller:'s book is good but they are not talking too much about the book. host: let's hear from david in ohio on the republican line. good morning. caller: i just have a couple statements to make. i am 76 and a half years old. this crap about the new green deal, they are not going to change global warming. i have seen of hot, i have seen it cold, i have seen all kinds of the weather in my lifetime. the other statement is if you want to put somebody on yet the

lieutenant governor of north carolina. a man that will set you straight. i trust god. shame on the democrats that put joe biden through this torment. i want to say to the independents in the undecided, you are not independent. you are not undecided. if you're undecided you do not need to vote. if you are an independent there is never going to be a third-party. i do not want to hear about independent. host: i wanted to ask you one more question about something you have in your book. that is the situation room. the quothe white house situation room, "obama sat anxiou a large conference tae piled with costco sandwich platters joined by vice president joe biden, secretary secretary of defense robertnd

gates. connected to the room by video feed from his office in lan virginia leon panetta read out frequent updates on the helicopt ps in a small adjace rm in the situation room. brigadier general marshall webb tored his laptop, which was connected to afghanistan and leon panetta in langley. the room in which webb sat contained only white house video feed showing real-time footage b laden's compound, which was being transmitted by drone hovering 15,000 feet above." we are showing our audience a very famous pict that moment taken by the white house photographer at that time. talk about the significance and wh happens in rooms like is a working office as well as a residence. guest: it is interesting, that

moment, one of the details that struck me was you had the tables piled with the platter of costco sandwiches. the situation room itself is very plain. it is a place where these iconic moments happen and is incredibly important. it is human actors. the moment in that famous photograph after the excerpt you just read, i did not realize until i wrote the book that there were two blackhawk helicopters going into bin laden's compound in the feed the white house could see was very grainy and dark and it was hard to tell what was going on. if you remember the first helicopter that went in actually crashed. it turns out it was an intentional crash. the pilot was not able to hover like he expected so he rotated

the helicopter and intentionally flipped the tail into the walls of the compound that would drive the copter in headfirst so it would not go spinning over. at that moment when hillary has her hand over her mouth and everyone looked so tense because they saw the helicopter crash and did not know what had happened, they did not know it was an intentional crash. they thought a disaster was occurring. the stakes of that moment were so high and so may things could go wrong that seem to be a moment where one of the things did go wrong. host: corey mead, author of the hidden history of the white house, power struggles and scandals and defining moments. the book is available now. thank you for spending the morning with us. guest: thank you, tammy. i appreciate you having me on. host: next we are going to be joined by television host and author alexander heffner. we will talk about the new

season of his show "breaking bread" and efforts to forge political unity and stability. we will be right back. >> celebrate independence day during our fourth of july sale going on right now at c-spanshop.org, c-span's online store. save up to 15% on all c-span products, including t-shirts, hoodies, hats, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit organization. scan the code or go to c-spanshop.org to shop our fourth of july sale. >> saturday american history tv features historic convention speeches. watch notable remarks from the past several decades. former california governor ronald reagan accepts the 1980 republican presidential

nomination and calls for a rebirth of the american tradition. >> we have come together because the american people deserve better from those to whom they entrust our nations highest offices and we stand united in our resolve to do something about it. we need a rebirth of the american tradition of leadership at every level of government and in private life as well. >> watch historic convention speak -- speeches on american history tv on c-span two and the summer watch c-span's liv 2024 coverage of the republican and democrat national conventions. >> robert schmoll is the admin joyce chair emeritus and american studies of journalism

at the university of notre dame. he has often written about the american presence. his newest book is mr. churchill and the white house per the untold story of a prime minister and two presidents. he says both roosevelt and eisenhower eventually adjusted to the unconventional habits and hours of their white house guest who not only proposed his visits but almost always by accident or design stayed longer than initially intended. >> with his book mr. churchill and the white house. on this episode of notes live -- book notes plus print is available on the c app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> the house will be in order. >> c-span celebrates 45 years of governing discovering congress like no other. since 1979 we've been your

primary source for capitol hill providing balanced unfiltered coverage of government. taking you to where the policy is debated and decided all with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back, joining us is alexander hafner, of pbs' the open mind as well as breaking bread, the second season of which is launching today. guest: happy fourth. host: start by explaining the premise of breaking bread and your approach to the series. guest: the entry point of this series is conversations over food or as i would say culinary adventures with americans finest governors and senators across party.

when i looked at the state of political dysfunction about three years ago in conceiving this idea it seemed to me we needed to get back to the basics of our fundamental humanity if we want to decency to inform and animate these exchanges and then ultimately the deliberation of our republic to sustain this union and the national governors association has a campaign right now called disagree better. two of my guests from season one into represent the origin of that movement. two of my guests in season one into our featured in the newest advertisements in that campaign, governor lujan grisham of new mexico. if collectively they are committed to tempering the threats of disunion, of their committed to a deep polarizing

discourse, they are committed to the functionality of our governing systems and oftentimes it has to be that way at the state and municipal level. by including both senators and governors there's an interesting interplay of federalism in the series. we know our resilience on this july 4 derives from the essence of shared powers. you of the three branches and really four few consider the fourth estate over doing right now a watchdog. increasing leads imperative for journalistic endeavor not to purely be in that accountability mode, but to facilitate exchange focused on outcomes and i think that means bringing together these voices over food and recreational fun in order to get

to a point where we can have actionable change in the collective feeling among the 22 governors and senators featured in season one and season to is we can do better, we can forge the social and political capital and intelligence to overcome the gridlock and the crises because when public policy challenges that were -- we are identifying is crises were not one-year year but decades now, and that becomes the status quo as opposed to a crisis, we've reached a kind of tipping point in not just the dialogues we are having but the actual feeling of the electorate that we are stymied and that we are unable to achieve the betterment of our union. host: we will talk specifically

about some of the episodes in a few minutes but the second season is premiering today what to do learn from season one? >> it was understanding and testing the speeches you can have camaraderie with people from disparate walks of life geographically expansive from the dakotas to the eastern seaboard, to the southwest. there was a unified principal in how that sustains us, sustenance, of the nutrients, so i learned this can work. in season two i wanted to push the envelope in terms of the food we are consuming. we have three types of hotdogs in season to, a sonoran hot dogs, bacon wrapped with senator kelly in arizona. chili dogs, and if you would

like your conventional ketchup and mustard, sauerkraut, relish tends to live on its own. and then most provocatively the governor of maryland at camden yards we were at a ballgame, the crab dipped dog and it sounds unappealing but it was delicious. it is dipped. it is a food of the people if you will. tested these in season one and in season to we wanted to challenge the folks that i mentioned including the governors and senators i just mentioned. some of the leading pragmatic voices are leveraging the brand of centrism and commitment to bipartisan outcomes.

challenge them to what's next to see, envision, imagine how they can achieve some of the landmark legislative goals for which our country has been yearning on immigration or social security and being intellectually honest about it so i think the food invites and some of the activities we've done including flying a little jet while co-captaining -- captain kelly's plane, the activities combined with the food thrust us into a human exchange that is meaningful, that we understand each other's humanity and want to save each other's lives and in trust senator kelly on a day bordering 120 degrees outside of tucson with my life and also my stomach after having those

before getting on a plane with him. season to think further confirms , reaffirms the thesis that this is possible. guest: there are 12 episodes in season two? guest: 12 episodes. a medley of republicans and democrats from alaska and hawaii to some of the states i mentioned arizona, maryland, kansas. we covered north dakota, south dakota between season one and season two. we have oklahoma, kansas, south dakota and north dakota. it was important to me to have geographic diversity. alongside federalism, our resilience to rise from that as well. it is as important as racial, ethnic, religion and the other kind of diversity or creed so

that was also a continued propelling force for me to have the whole pie of america. host: how much time are usually spending in these communities when you go in and why is that important in addition to the food you are eating. host: i never want to be accused -- guest: i would never want to be accused as a carpet bagging person. someone using too much sophisticate language. that was instrumental in our history, but you can google it. the idea that i'm coming in from some alien terrain to report on folks with whom i'm unfamiliar. it's the contrary. i want to learn life. i want to adapt.

i love south dakota, i know it as well as the new york city subway system. in fact i know it better. the point being i think you find the value of diversity across these constituencies. learning about what makes the election tick but also the people they represent. so it was an all day affair with the individual i was interviewing but it was also meeting family members sometimes in the case of the governor and his son and always staff members of the elected officials. but the folks who are the proprietors or shafts behind the restaurants or who were making the food that we are eating. so there is a feeling of being

present in each one of these 12 places for more than 24 hours. i might only have half a day with a given governor or senator. in most cases i wish for as much as a full day 24 hours as possible. it was not carpet bagging in my judgment and we tried to demonstrate the principles that collectively constitute this union and how they are represented in all of these states. host: our guest, alexander hafner, the host of the open mind and breaking bread, which second season is premiering today. if you have a question or comment for alexander you can start calling in. democrats your line 202-748-8000 . republicans, 202-748-8001. independents 202-748-8002. let's take a look at one of the

interviews you did, you mentioned it earlier. you spent some time with senator mark kelly. you at hot dogs and you went on a plane. let's look at that clip and talk about it. [video clip] >> he was undeterred, senator kelly wanted to show me arizona from another vantage point, not from a spaceship, that a spin in the columbia 400. first we picked up sonoran hot dogs to go. wrapped in bacon loaded with beans and mayo this is in the fair i would typically go for before boarding a tiny plane but this wasn't a typical day. >> these are pictures of the hot dogs with my brother on the station. they would make himself better. space food is not good.

>> pretty good for a hotdog. it's better than those things you get on the street in new york city. >> that's true. >> laying in that water for a week. you don't know what's in that water. >> do you think you consider military and geopolitical questions differently as someone who has served? in summary different branches as well. nasa service, navy service. >> i spent 2.5 years in the senate, not a lot of us were military experienced and fewer with combat experience. myself, tammy duckworth, tom cotton. one of the things that i bring to the senate is direct technical experience with

military hardware but also the culture of the military. i spent 25 years in the united states navy so in the senate on the person with the most time on active duty. >> so it's three of 100. >> joni ernst i think she was in the logistics world. there was not a lot of us. but other people that spend time in the military, jack reed is the chairman of armed services. i try to bring my lifetime of experience with the military and my experience at nasa and especially with regards to aviation. i feel like i've got a pretty good understanding of the hardware. host: you were talking with senator kelly about his military background. talk about how having knowledge of somebody's background can help understand where a lawmaker falls on an issue or how they may vote on a piece of

legislation. guest: this season includes as you saw an aviator, an astronaut, a minister, a basketball player, a rancher, and of course your run-of-the-mill politician. a doctor and a veterinarian as well. so this is the madisonian ideal of bringing expertise and disciplines that are relevant to the people, the american people in representing our better natures. not to exploit the political ideology so that you win on any set of issues, but that you represent the vastness and expansiveness of expertise we need in order to carry over --

carry forward this nation great that's what politics is supposed to be about. i mentioned the idea of disagreeing better. we have to sustain this republic if we want to keep it. and preserve free expression and democratic ideals. one of the things i think senator kelly embodies in his service is this idea that there are no blue, purple or red states paid it's a mythology. in any given state including the most bitterly divided swing states like an arizona, we also interviewed senator warnock for georgia. there are hundreds of thousands of people who are thinking differently than the incumbent powers, the incumbent democrat or republican governor even in states that are the least populous. the you think are entirely conservative and republican.

alaska and wyoming for example there are tens of thousands, in fact hundreds of thousands of voters who go the other way. i think we have to acknowledge it's not only cliched to talk about red and blue states, it's actually wrong because every state is a medley of purple. we have lost grasp of that, when senator kelly talks about his expertise in military affairs and the lack of experience in not public service, in military duty, in the chamber of the united states senate, it's really mind-boggling because we have fought many wars over the last century. and that experience ought to inform the way we think of conflict whether it's protecting homeland security or

participation overseas in the geopolitical to malt going on in ukraine and russia and the middle east. i would just add senator kelly has been through some of the most difficult hardships of any active servicemember in the military or in congress. his family victimized, i'm talking with the assassination attempt on his wife the former congressman -- congress woman gabby giffords. and the massacre of numerous people. he doesn't take a second for granted. so i was honored to be invited to fly with him and to have a conversation about the future of this republic. knowing the bravery he has exhibited. it is uncontestable. it is indisputable. and on this july 4 i just want

to say that in a proud and substantive way as opposed to as i said in my first season breaking bread some kind of casual reference to thank you for your patriotism. when that experience is lived out, it is extraordinary and that courageous couple continues to serve the public interest and i salute them both. host: we have callers lined up to talk to you pray sorting with sheila in ohio on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i'm not familiar with your program and i appreciate any work you do to work us together. i'm afraid these are special times. the other day to raji p henson who was an actress gave a

warning at the bet awards on project 2025 to inform people what that is, that's what i'm trying to do with this call. maggio republicans -- host: we are talking about alexander's new series if you have a question or comment related to that. guest: yes i do. you can make peace with people who want to take away the democracy. the supreme court has made it so the president is immune from corruption. we are in fascism now, guest: thank you sheila. i really appreciate the question. this morning, tammy you might have in your first segment with the morning papers about the heritage foundation's president's comments about a second revolution that we will have a bloodless revolution, and

i'm paraphrasing, but he used the phrase bloodless revolution, warning liberals that if president -- former president trump is reelected, that if they are essentially subservient to the new incumbent power there won't be violence. that is extremely dangerous and let's be intellectually honest about this as we try to be on breaking bread and dawn an open mind. the expression no justice, no peace intimates something similar. now not as flagrantly and harmfully as what we heard i think within the last 2448 hrs from the particular person i referenced, but we need to hold up the frame of what is

constructive rhetoric and hold accountable everyone. because if you are using words that are explicitly encouraging violence or suggesting that if i don't have my way, or if i can implement by vision of justice there's going to be not just disharmony but there's going to be violence, that is not how to promote a civil society and there are periods in our history where we did transform into an uncivil state. the civil war. there was a period of slavery in this country where there was an atrocious uncivil practice going on every day in this union. so we have to be honest with

elected officials and with each other and our neighbors. i like to say. i've said it on this program, honesty and intellectual honesty has to be the new golden rule in our politics if we want any sort of change because folks on the left and right, and i imagine your twitter feed on washington journal and c-span is going berserk with you are a fascist, no you are a fascist. that doesn't help. it's not how we erected this country. it's not how we paved the path to the declaration of independence and the constitution. i urge all your viewers today to watch 1776, my favorite musical movie of all time and hamilton. i think you can view it on disney plus now. to get a snapshot of america. there has been discord and i am

peripherally willing to acknowledge it. the question is do we want discord to people all four devolve into political violence in the future. if the answer is no then don't say the things about a bloodless revolution if you'll let us. don't say things like we are threatening war or violence with our pitchforks if we don't achieve the status of justice we want. it's not that complicated. once we wrestle with public policy differences can get complicated. everyone who is commenting on social media has a choice. do they want to inhibit our sustenance as a republican union or do they want to help us continue to mature into the nation with resilient people and a vibrant economy that we can be and have been for many years.

host: the caller asking about how could you sit down and have a meal with these people who have these views and have these opinions. one of your episodes you are talking with alaska senator lisa murkowski and you a personal moment where you made a connection. tell us about that but also how having conversations with people who have different opinions can help foster stability and understanding. guest: i'll add that i was amazingly not stung by a b and the senator suggested that we bring out some bug spray to the table. i think it might not have made the final cut but she pointed and i averted momentary disaster . the point is just care, senator

murkowski rarely gives national interviews. her communications director told her -- told us she does a few each year. so another honor to be in her presence and to be able to have that exchange with her. i share a history with the senator because we were both tapped by our family patriarch to continue in the service we do today. in her case she was appointed by her dad the former governor of the state to serve the united states senate. my grandfather hosted the open mind. i've now been hosting it for 10 years since he passed. he wanted me to succeed him in that role and i've tried to not only pay umbrage, but advance that cause through the breaking bread series on bloomberg tv which is also premiering on the open mind this year and you can watch all of the episodes of

breaking bread on a special presentation of the open mind. back in the day my grandfather was smoking cigarettes and cigars on tv like the cronkite's and marrows. then we learned about carcinogenic properties of tobacco and it changed. along with it, there was no consumption of anything or smoking of cigarettes. i'm not proposing that we restore that practice that is knocking to be conducive to our health. but i think it's worth noting there was a novelty in the medium of television and even though we considered that high tech relative to what thomas jefferson did with the declaration or other framers that later with the constitution , there was something to be said for the humanity of what we are

doing now. even the way we can talk to each other and have deeper conversations which does not go on in any kind of remotely prosocial way on antisocial media. we call it social media. in practice it is antisocial. senator murkowski took real interest in the fact we were both carrying forward legacies and understood that the new generation called for doing something different. in my case it's about facilitating the path to content , compromise and real outcomes in our political life and the way to do that in 1956 or even 1986 or 2006. the way to get to that endpoint across the finish line was different. and i'll just say this for you you may not make -- make -- play

clip. my vision for a possible third season is different because i want to nominate or enlist two representatives, it could be governors or realistically there would be senators from season to to actually now fully practice what they preach in moving the dialogue on one of these important issues, whether the framework or involvement overseas and developing some consensus around that or getting smart about immigration or safety net programs or entitlement programs. and i do nominate senator kelly and senator murkowski whether they wanted or not. i've talked with their staff about this because in shepherding season one into, my end goal is an amazing race to national morale and legislative accomplishment.

i believe that they are capable of producing that outcome and right now we are in a battle for the white house. it's deeply problematic in many ways the campaign season where we don't have a fresh charismatic perspectives represented in breaking bread like the governor gordon's and senator murkowski's and kelly's. so if they're knocking to be elected to the white house this time around and by golly i wish they would be because they are the people in this season who if they could wave their magic wand we would have a functional politics and they would not need a magic wand if they were in positions of power because they would just forge ahead for the american people and they know that's what the american people want. i would hope any further involvement with interviews with these elected would be waking up with them every morning watching washington journal with them,

reading the washington post, seeing how they are human beings , but in this case really how the camera crews look at people like senator kelly and makowski -- murkowski who are committed to passing let's say passing immigration reform that will fix the illegal immigration problem, undocumented, people who have been here and have earned a living and contributed to the success of our economy, acknowledging their presence, doing the things that were once considered a bipartisan mandate and seeing if in fact they can get it done. i would say the question about a personal moment. i wonder if that can translate into host: the type of action that i hope it can spur. let's hear from richard in oceanside california on the democrats line. caller: i want to say this

gentleman is right on. i'm so happy to be talking to c-span today. i scribbled his name down and i excellently wrote down alexander hamilton. his theme of breaking bread together and having a civil discourse is so important. when i was a kid in high school, graduated in 1965. we were required to have a full year of instruction before you could graduate. you had to virtually no all of these political documents, virtually verbatim. or you didn't graduate. now only seven states require a full year of civics instruction in high school.

it's not been a good change. i would throw a couple of things in there. it's just keeping a civil relationship is so important. by using social media for goodness sake. sit down and get along. and now they say the young people are inclined to vote for the blonde haired fella. i don't think that such a good idea myself. i would point out historically this a couple of things. benjamin when he was asked about the nature of the new government that they had formed. he was asked what have we got, a republic or a monarch. he answered a republic if you can keep it. that's what he answered. that's a fact, you can look it up.

i would say about dr. martin luther king jr. another famous dr. who quoted in a speech in 1964 what are the two most dangerous things in the world. they are delivered ignorance and conscientious stupidity. people who refused to be civil with each other is very dangerous stuff. it's just unimaginable. host: let's get a response from the guest. guest: thank you richard and i appreciate the kind words. i've written a lot about the decline of civic education. interestingly some of the justices on the u.s. supreme court which is viewed now quite unfavorably and may be is the most undemocratic institution have been proponents of civic education. justice sotomayor your now, but justice o'connor.

justice breyer was concerned with this. justice souter in particular was concerned with this. i think it is important that we recognize that civics is not taught anymore. nor is our essential humanity of what it means to look across the table and speak with someone and think about the problems they are having and consideration. that's not just regrettable. that is unsustainable. there are states where the idea of civics is practiced. unfortunately it became identified as secular. civics is not secular. it is how you understand the guardrails of community. the community may have some

components of secular life and religious life and i think it was a problem of the civics movement to exclude an array of ideas including theology. now as a result of alienating theology from the table of what is civic life, there is a tendency by the supreme court and other authorities to believe they have to accept states -- state sanctioned religion. even the most fervent, even a minister, the reverend witherspoon, one of our founding delegates to the constitutional and second continental congress. one of the things in season to this most remarkable is here i am asking senator raphael warnock, reverend senator raphael warnock who believes in

god with all his heart and you can see it on the screen and also believes that we have not lived up to dr. kings standards of equity in the country and brought liberty to the whole of the country. he is one of the most passionate champions of voting rights. he is viewing his civic responsibility through the lens of increasing the franchise of for people to vote. and to me it's really stunning to watch both reverend witherspoon and the rev. warnock were champions of the republic first briton they believe everyone should be able to express themselves through different religions, different points of view, different ideas of assembly and they did not see

that their advocacy of a republic for republicanism was conflicting with their conviction and faith. i hope the people will watch reverend senator warnock's interview and understand these things do not have to be in conflict in our civic life and it can be taught and the values of civic life can be instilled alongside every other discipline whether that is workshop or building cabinets together, economics, how jobs work. or religion and theology and thinking about god or the absence of god whether it's islam, christianity or any other

faith. the question, thank you so much for asking about civic education. >> for the second season you went to nebraska and sat down with governor wilson. we want to play this clip from the interview here. you are talking with him about his career while eating pork sandwiches. [video clip] >> i understand your staff prepared a meal for us. >> he said will you tell me what does your culinary expert. preparing this work at the one under 35 degree range and probably has some special seasoning to get a little bit of flavor. pork is so good if you cook at 135. you don't need anything else. >> thanks for the invitation to

join you. i understand this is his version , it looks great. >> every time i eat something i always say it's the best yet. that's delicious. >> you went to vet school before you started the enterprise were standing on today. >> i want to be a veterinarian for the time i was eight years old. i was the last to get to drive a tractor so i was around livestock. i love being around the veterinarian when he would come to the farm and so by the time i said i want to be a veterinarian. >> did you have an equal passion for football as you did for animals? >> we worked on the farm allots or entertainment was playing football.

my dad had a brother who is a -- a high school football coach. we live five miles from a town called platt center. we get our work done and get to go into the friday night football game. every nebraska kid had the dream of being a football player. >> there is something about the game that's exhilarating. i wonder how that has informed your career since being in football games. do you think about football a lot? >> the cool thing about getting to play the sport at any level it depends on your experience of what can a coach you had. every guy who played in nebraska in my timeframe, so we learned extraordinary things. the game of football was really nothing but life 101. no matter how good you are you're only as good as the weakest player on the team.

host: the politicians you are speaking with for this series have very different backgrounds and experiences. senator mark kelly, a former navy pilot. vastly different backgrounds. what did you find people had in common. guest: they like pork. so the food really is a universal language that speaks to all of us. if i can i would elaborate on the interview with the governor. he is really fun to be around. there was a video i saw him on the football field in a famous game where he contributed to the

win of the cornhuskers and you can see his face in his video when he's just recovered a fumble and the intensity on his face. it was extraordinary. i asked him about it and what it meant whether he's retained that level of enthusiasm or focus. that is expressed, how has that manifested in our politics. could it be done so more constructively. i think the interview with the governor was also edifying to me coming from more city life over the years because he taught me to shoot skeet for the first time. i had spent some time in south dakota and shot a few rounds of practice but i had never done that and his son relates to me

that he took his dad out and may have had a role in his dad's acclamation. though i'm sure the governor was shooting at a young age as well. they all have families, the representatives i've met with and interviewed. i got the opportunity to meet the governor's son as well as his staff on that production day and also see the second amendment from the perspective the senator thune talked about in season one. but see it up close and personal. school safety is paramount, i believe a vast majority of people who go out for recreation shooting believe in second amendment also want are schools to be safe. and i think that they perceive the carpetbaggers, the outsiders as not understanding that this is intra-goal to who they are

and their core and the threat of having that right stripped, whether it's hunting or recreation is enough to oppose on humane grounds the experiences in their community and preserving them as well as on conch -- on constitutional grounds. it's enough for them to oppose most gun restrictions. and until you see the joy, and pursuit of that passion intimately you are not going to get it. so i would say that was a unifying principle of season two witches come to their village and understand their craft and how they live and wanting to share that with me and our viewers and not live siloed and so family is a universal

principle along with the food. and i also believe quite strongly that every single one represented in season one into would like things to be better and they are each working in their own state, its tax reform, specifically real estate in their state and making sense of what can a serve the constituents. one other thing that unites all these people whether they are conservative or liberal, one of the things we've learned in the 2016 election that catapulted former president trump and senator sanders to the forefront of our politics was a sense of economic disequilibrium. it's a fancy word, one of your callers talked about too many fancy words. but i think there's -- it's a better word than equity. it means things are out of sync.

equilibrium is when there some kind of sense or semblance of balance. to me that is all out the window in the current era we live in. inflation certainly has emphasized to the public the extent of that disconnect. historically there just haven't been as much of a financial disequilibrium and there are various approaches to handling it. in the -- in the case of a conservative state and the conservative governor, most can't afford the taxes on their property and they feel strongly it is an unequal system. so all of these people understand the feeling of unrest in the economic realities that we live in notwithstanding the

fact under president biden stock and forecast 401(k)s have skyrocketed. there standing in retirement funds have improved markedly since the president took over joblessness it's at an -- joblessness is at an all-time low and yet we have to understand what produced this. i would submit to you and i think most of your callers would agree that what transpired in 2007 and 2008 with the housing crisis escalating into retirement home money. that is very much a possibility. in the future. if we don't understand the foundations of our economy and whether they are serving an exclusive network or the whole. i would hate to see and i think we would all hate to see a repeat of what transpired then and if we don't understand those

sources of the economic disequilibrium, we are going to repeat history and have another crisis of that magnitude. host: let's hear from mike in wisconsin on the republican line. good morning. >> thanks for having me. i appreciate what you are trying to do to get people together. but let's hold both sides countable than because all we hear about now is january 6, january 6. what about 2020? riots in every major city. for days. business is burning, small businesses destroyed. who propagated that? the left because they hated trump so much. january 6 affected the political class that has been wastefully spending our tax dollars inexplicably. meanwhile 2020 destroyed your neighbors businesses, destroyed

your friends or disagree with you. host: alexander. guest: thank you for the comment. this is where intellectual honesty factors in. the gentleman is correct the january 6 -- what is been called the insur, it was the attempted interruption of the transfer of power. would also transpired over the summer were protests along with arson and criminal activity. there was trespassing of small businesses and there were people who took civil disobedience into an abusive practice. to the caller, if the object here is being straight with each

other, we have to acknowledge that. we have to acknowledge that on an issue like reproductive care, abortion, how you think about it. in season one of breaking bread i had a conversation with governor burgum, now considered one of former president trump's vp nods potentially and i asked him about the inconsistency of supporting capital punishment at the same time that you want to ban abortion. if you believe in the sanctity of life don't you believe in it. . he accepted the premise of the question that it was a more honest assessment of the issue and how the party has considered the question of life.

do we preserve it collectively or do we preserve it in the case of abortion and barring abortion. there are many conservative states that don't have a conclusive verdict on capital punishment. i think governor burgum pointed to the states historic opposition to capital punishment. so the caller's point is really important to understand what it means to be intellectually honest about a subject. there is a difference between burning down a mom-and-pop shop or burning down congress or interrupting a political procedure. one is domestic violence, one is political and domestic violence which -- we have to be honest about these things. host: louisiana on the

independent line. good morning brent. caller: hi. i had a comment about when the leader of the -- when the minority leader gets up every morning and talks about the extreme maga republicans. that would be like half the country. i don't understand how it can get much better. guest: you're saying folks are waking up and talking about the opposition in a way that is not conducive to exchange, coming together, a meeting of minds. we've had different political leaders over time talk about their opponents more as enemies as opposed to fellow patriots.

on this july 4, i urge all the viewers and listeners out there to practice the type of patriotism that you think is going to extend the longevity of this republic because we've all worked hard and our parents and grandparents in framers have all worked hard to sustain it. it takes all of us in the same multitudes to keep it going. that's where there is that disconnect between real life and social media. the inclination on social media is to win in a debate and also cable news, not cease, but ideologically rigged partisan squares has been perpetuating that kind of division. and we have to collectively say

stop, whether that's the form of an expression of a minority or majority leader, the problem really i think is that there aren't that many vehicles to model that type of citizenship. so we are encouraging people to start at the local level and i think that is fair. the question is can you do enough good at the local and state level to topple the partisan duopoly that is just not being helpful to our country . so far the jury says no. one can make progress municipally on issues that if we want national harmony or legislative reforms. for example the age of both candidates for president and the

fact there generationally separate from the majority in this country now, they don't really feel our concerns, it shows the interest of the majority of the country aren't represented in the two major party presidential candidates and i think that is why the answer of always saying we have to start locally. yes, but local doesn't stop a financial crisis. he doesn't prevent 9/11 from happening. local doesn't mitigate a pandemic and i just add for all those people out there watching and who care about our government i do not think government is simply the art of the possible. the political life is the art of the possible. i think it's the art of survival, what is survivable.

the art of putting one foot after the other and people as a result of the financial crisis, as a result of 9/11, as a result of the pandemic there are people who aren't putting one foot after the other. they are not alive anymore. politics factors into that. again being intellectually honest is the most important thing in recognizing that the great recession was preventable pre-9/11 was preventable. and i think even the spread of covid was preventable. and we failed. the idea that local and municipal civic resilience is going to be sufficient enough is not i think a working idea. practicing kindness and taking it from your neighborhood into the united states senate, into the white house, it could work that way but it has not so far. host: we have time for one last

quick call pre-we will go with eric in new york on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: thank you. alexander, tammy, c-span, patriots all. i'm going to touch on bravery and individual bravery. my aspect of bravery is in my world i resolved nine years ago to ask people when i found them alone if they think most people are nice and then i ask them what they think most people told me. i did that thousands of times and it tempered my world in a way that my world is filled with people who by and large engaged me and talked about the kinds of things you wish we could can -- could engage in and agree in a

world that was far rosier than the one i pick up from my media feed. i abandoned it a little bit during covid and i began to falter and believe things that changed and then i picked it up again. it is the same thing. 85% looked me straight in the eye and said i think people are nice. whatever it means. i really appreciate what you do and i remember watching your grandfather when i was younger. america, you have to look over at your fellow citizen and understand the product of our system of government is unique, the people we've created are unique. you just have to peel back the onion a little bit and reach out to them. host: thank you for your call eric. guest: you said it all eric. bless you and thank you for

watching and thank you for caring about these things. we can take it for granted at thanksgiving or even our day-to-day interactions. we have to call out a lack of compassion when we see it, tell our truths in our own lives and we have to practice that as much as telling hard truths about our union and our aspirations. yes our triumphs, our ongoing deliberations, failures and tribulations but ultimately i believe in the viability of this union and will wanting all of us to do everything we can to extend longevity of it. thank you for this forum, to all your colleagues it's a pleasure to join you on c-span. host: thank you for joining us alexander. season two of