♪ host: good morning. it is sunday, july 20 1, 2020 four.

former president donald trump returned to the campaign trail yesterday, joined by his new running mate as president biden continues to resist a growing number of calls from within the democratic party for him to drop out of the race. that is where we are going to begin this morning, with the question should president biden stay on the to my credit to get? our numbers for democrats are -- on the democratic ticket? our numbers for democrats are (202) 748-8000. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents can reach is that (202) 748-8002 -- reach us at (202) 748-8002. if you would like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. if you would like to reach us on social media, that is facebook.com/cspan and on x at @cspanwj. we want to turn to the rally in grand rapids, michigan yesterday, where former president trump returns to the

campaign trail for the first time since the attempted assassination on his life last week. here is a bit of that rally with him discussing what happened. [video clip] >> let me begin with a special thanks to americans nationwide, including all of you here today for your extraordinary outpouring of love and support in the wake of the horrific last saturday event. when you think of it, it was exactly one week ago today, almost to the hour, even to the minute. >> incredible. what a day it was. as i said earlier this week, i stand before you only by the grace of almighty god.

i should not be here. maybe j.d. or somebody else would be here, but i should not be here right now. something very special happened. i want to thank butler memorial hospital in pennsylvania for the incredible job they did and service they gave and all of the great citizens of other, pennsylvania and everyone else for the job they did and the love that they showed us all. it was incredible, what a time that was. nobody has seen anything like it and hopefully they never will again. they had cameras blazing. they were going.

they covered it fairly. they could not believe what they were seeing either. they did cover it fairly. let me think congressman ronny jackson from texas for the care and treatment he gave me as an upstanding doctor, which he is. he is really an amazing guy. he is here someplace. thank you, ronnie -- ronny. great doctor. he was a great admiral, great doctor. he was the white house doctor for bush, obama, and a guy named trump. they said, who was the healthiest of the three? he said, not even a question come up trump. i love that guy. when he said that, that was my doctor.

he has been a great congressman. thank you for everything. we appreciate it. we continue to pray for the recovery of the two citizens who were wounded in that people attack. two really incredible people. we remain in contact and send our deepest respect to the families. cory was a brave firefighter who died shielding his wife and daughters from the bullets of this horrendous person. corey was a hero and we will carry his memory in our hearts. host: now back to our question of the hour. should president biden stay on the to my credit ticket? some of the latest reporting from politico on this issue says biden's inner circle shifts

moment to moment and the campaign insists the president is in this race. and joe biden's campaign chair insisted friday the president is remaining in the race even as the cascade of democratic defections continue. he acknowledged that biden's candidacy had suffered from slippage of support since the debate as concerns spiked among democratic officials and voters over his age and mental acuity, but she argued that biden has proven since then he is capable of running an aggressive race, urging democrats to reunify behind him and shift their focus back on to attacking former president trump. at the moment, there are 36 democrats in the house and senate who have publicly called for biden to drop out. here's a photo of those folks on politico's website.

let's get to your calls with our question of the hour. we will start with james in new port richey, florida. >> good morning. trump praises god for saving him. why didn't god take care of him, who was a decent come on his family man? i think biden sent the hit. i have people used to visit and when he heard that my son was killed he had a flag flown over the white house. biden is a decent guy. with biden, he should not speak in a low voice. he should speak with a loud voice. it betrays what condition you

are in. i think he should stay in and he can be trump. this guy trump, he increased the deficit $8 trillion. he gave corporations big tax reductions and created 400 more billionaires and increased the debt a trillion dollars. what kind of businessman is he? and this claim that biden left a successful business mac manhattan to come and save the country is a bunch of nonsense -- business in manhattan to come and save the country as a bunch of nonsense. host: let's hear from patrick. caller: i am wondering if c-span is going to become an unfiltered record of government. you are asking about biden staying in the race and showing trump's rally? why don't you list gdp what the

deficit was or all the technical record of government? this endless -- some people are saying this is the most iconic picture ever. that is what trump said. i guess iwo jima and the fire fighters 9/11 are not iconic pictures, but just the suggestion -- why don't you really become an unfiltered record of government? who came up with that slogan, the same people that said fox is fair and balanced and cnbc's first in business worldwide? thank you for taking my call. host: next we have andy in virginia on our line for kratz. -- democrats. caller: president biden should stay on the ticket. he has accomplished more than any president since roosevelt. this man -- first it is only the

stupidity and ignorance of the typical american voter that has allowed the possibility of that reprobate, that pervert, that sexual assaults are women, that traitor to this american country , this buddy putin, to even be a possible that he is going to enter the white house is incredible. i cannot believe how far this country has fallen if this man who has said to his chief of staff that any servicemen, any american servicemen that lost his life, whatever was a sucker and a loser and refused to go to an american cemetery in france because he did not want to get his hair wet. how far we have fallen as a country is pathetic. any woman, any self-respect and woman who would allow herself to even vote or consider voting for this man, where is your respect

for womanhood? any person who claims to be a patriotic american, how can you possibly vote for this piece of trash? it is incredible, how far this country has fallen. host: mike is in missouri on our line for independents. caller: i want to start by saying anybody who believes united states has never been great should get out. that is how i feel. host: what you think about whether president biden should stay on the democratic ticket? caller: it is an embarrassing time for our great country. we will be voting for well-meaning old gentleman who gives infrastructure and cap drugs for seniors or we are going to vote for a man who is being kept out of jail by judges he appointed and the man who we

are talking about, he promises to censor any outlet who does not praise him, promises to use government institutions to go after his political adversaries. he used the same -- i think biden should stay in. if you give me a minute, i'm giving you the reason why i think so. are you going to give me that time? host: yes. caller: ok. thank you. he used the same institutions to empty a park for a photo off. he cheated andrew mccabe, who served our country over 25 years out of his pension one day before he could get it. he also used the treasury department audit james comey, andrew mccabe, and others multiple times. the mag arm -- maga arm of the

party want to give ukraine to putin. j.d. vance said he could care less about ukraine. host: we got the idea. let's now hear from mike in south carolina on our line for republicans. good morning, mike. caller: good morning. i think joe biden needs to stay on that ticket and these people talking that foolishness, they deserve it because they covered up for the man. he is a crime family. they are guilty of all kinds of things and he needs to stay on the ticket and run. if he is going to bow out, he needs to -- they need to let him do it with humility. and that is what i have to say. i can tell you this. you might not like the man to like the plan. donald trump has the best plan for america of anybody.

thank you very much. god bless you all. make america great again. host: rob is in new york on our line for independents. caller: i think biden should stay in the race. he opened up the borders and flooded this country with illegals. if you guys in the democrat party want to vote for the mummified remains of an idiot, you are doing it. he should stay in the race. democrats made this crap sandwich. go ahead and eat it. host: keep the language clean. caller: i think president biden should stay in the race as well because i believe trump is going to turn our country into a -- by overturning the constitution by the united states of america. biden, hang in there.

we are going to vote for you. host: jerome is in south carolina on our line for independents. caller: good morning. i think joe biden, it is time for him to go. he did a good job, but he is just too old. i am not the person i used to be. he has a lot of wisdom, but there go the republicans trying to say he should stay and for whatever reason so trump can win. trump is a disgrace to this country. it is time to move on to joe biden. host: one of the cochairs of president biden's reelection campaign acknowledged friday that the president is evaluating which potential candidate might be best positioned to defeat a donald trump as biden continues to face increasing pressure from fellow democrats to hand the torch to a new nominee.

speaking at the security forum, senator chris coons from delaware, one of biden's closest allies in the senate and a cochair of biden's 2024 campaign, said the president is reflecting on next steps and listening to advisors as he decides on his political future. [video clip] >> you are a close friend of president biden, cochair of his campaign, and i know you are proud of the achievements of the past three years. but the last three weeks must have been difficult for you as calls have mounted on biden. >> great stuff so far. >> i'm sure it is difficult for him. what factors do you think he is weighing or has been weighing as he decides how to proceed? >> that is it? >> i want to hear the answer and then i will follow up. >> to be brief, this is an

internal party matter antimatter of the campaign that is playing out publicly. i think our president is weighing what he should wake, which is who is the best candidate to win in november and carry forward the democratic party's values and priorities in this campaign? he has been an exceptional president. he has campaigned effectively. he has led effectively. i will reference last week, which was the nato summit. folks like me, who after a bad to be a performance said you have to get out and do more work and campaign harder and you press conferences and longform interviews, he had a week where we had our 31 nato allies and five other heads of state at least in washington and he chaired meeting after meeting, three days of a nato summit, strongest nato has ever been. did a press conference. did campaign events. and there are folks still saying he is not strong enough or capable enough to be our next

president. i disagree. >> i will not for the record that was not meant to be an applause line, but thank you to the few of you who applauded. >> have you talked to him in you last few days? >> i will not get into the details of our private conversations, but i'm confident he is hearing what he needs to hear from colleagues, from the public. the number of people who have given me input this week from here, people i grew up with in delaware, former roommates, ex-girlfriend, people i did not realize still had my cell phone number -- with all due respect, literally people who ride the train with me and are my neighbors, people who are journalists, people who are friends, there is a lot of concern and anxiety about this. because the stakes are so significant. the consequences of this election are profound. the differences between our two candidates and likely nominee,

the differences are stark and the differences in our parties are stark and there is a huge amount of concern about the consequences of the election. the one thing that unites every democrat i have heard from is they believe donald trump should not be returned to the white house. i will say this, not meaning to be overly sharp. his former vice president, chief of staff, and national security adviser have also said he should not be returned to the white house. i think we should listen to that group of individuals who had direct experience with his leadership capabilities. host: that was senator chris coons on friday. let's get back to your calls on our question of whether president biden should stay on the democratic ticket. we will next go to james in south carolina on our line for republicans. caller: i don't think that

president biden should stay in the race because, while i know that he was once a great man and probably behind the scenes is still a great man, i do not think mentally or physically he is up to being -- continuing as president of the united states and while i do not particularly like donald trump i was doing much better under his presidency and i think if we allow him to continue he will do a lot more great things. as far as president biden goes, i think he needs to retire, go home, and spent time with his family. that is all i can really say. host: ellis is in georgia on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i think you stay in. he has done a good job as president of the united states.

i am going to make this real quick. two resumes and those resumes want to be a babysitter to your children or your young child. one resume says you're convicted felon, a sex abuser, and those resumes. a pathological liar. and the other says it is not. who are you going to babysit your child? the first resume or the other resume? trump is a convicted felon. he is a sex abuser. i am so embarrassed -- to have a president of the united states without resume? i am going to stop. these people behind trump, if

you said it is raining outside and you know it is sunshine outside, they are going to believe it. -- than anybody in the history of the united states. host: let's go to bill in alabama. caller: thank you for taking my call. it is time for the people of the united states the get their heads out of the sand and realize what the media and all these politicians on the lives they have been telling us for eight or nine years. it is comical but in reality it is sad that we have so many people with low iqs that they don't realize that joe biden is a criminal.

he is the head of a criminal family, crime family, and what he has done for america in the last four years -- host: do you think you should say on the democratic ticket? caller: joe biden right now can't do not understand english? host: i understand they do not seem to like joe biden, but i was asking if you think he should remain on the democratic ticket. caller: he made his bed. he is going to have to lie in it. host: next up we have roberta in florida on our line for democrats. caller: i think joe biden should stay on the ticket. those democrats telling them to get off, they ain't got no backbone. they should be encouraging him and helping him. it is really ridiculous, the way they have gone against him. i am going to vote for him no

matter what. he has my vote. thank you. host: the staff of president joe biden is still public lease supporting him, including transportation secretary pete buttigieg, who expressed his unwavering support for president joe biden during an appearance on hbo's real time with bill maher. [video clip] >> i'm sure because i believe in joe biden. let mac -- [applause] >> i get it. i did not come here to say he is not 10 years older than he was 10 years ago or deny that sometimes key mixes of names, as donald trump does, sometimes saying this name he always they met -- meant that name. -- obviously meant that name. the thing about joe biden is he is really good at being president. you can tell because the things

we need presidents to do are the things he has done, like delivering infrastructure and defending women's rights and fostering economic growth to a level we have not seen under any president in my lifetime. one of two things is going to happen in november. we are either getting donald trump or the democratic candidate, who is joe biden. those are radically different futures and i know which of those futures i am prepared to live in and that i want for my children to be growing up in. >> the argument is not about that. most of a kratz think he did do a good job. the arc but is can he win? nancy pelosi told him this week she does nothing he can win. and i said this a week ago. once the dam breaks, everybody is going to be coming aboard.

how can he survive? now he has covid. he is going to run for president from a hospital bed? it is just ridiculous. >> he has mild symptoms. he wants to be back out on the campaign trail in a few days. he is going to campaign for the future we could have. that is the thing. the futures cannot be more different between donald trump's future and the future where joe biden wants to lead us. americans already agree with us on issues. >> that is not their big issue. their big issues they think he is not young have to do the job. >> the more we are talking about him or about donald trump, we look past the fact that this election is not about one of these two people. it is about all of us. it is about the country. most people in this country want continued economic growth.

they agree with joe biden's economic policies. they disagree with donald trump's agenda of tax cuts for the rich. most people agree with joe biden on defending a woman's right to choose and disagree with terminating the right to choose in this country. on issue after issue, americans will be better off. host: jack is in virginia on our line for independents. caller: clearly joe biden does not need spend the ticket. if you ask me, the ticket is the real problem at this point. it is a joke either way you go. it is forcing the american people to choose between two people that are not qualified to be leaders. as far as the economy goes, it is clear trump's economy was better than the economy we just finished dealing with. host: next is david in

cincinnati, ohio on our line for dark rats. -- democrats. caller: these democrats who are calling for him to step down need to actually grow a spine. the other ones who are for the billionaire class need to step aside anyway. joe biden needs to stay on that ticket. that is who needs to stay there. the rest of these people need to get on board. they play this game with hillary clinton, saying how sick he was and stuff like that. the same game they are playing with joe biden, saying how old he is and all this stuff. they have been playing it since january, so you build this stuff up and everybody starts talking

about it. that is a political game. it always has been. democrats who do not recognize it need to grow up and grow a spine. that is all i have to say. host: bill is in delaware on our line for independents. caller: i believe joe biden should stay on the democrat ticket because he is the leader of the party that represent democracy and democrats voted to put him at the top of the ticket. so unless there is a democratic process in the democratic party to change him out, it should not happen. i would like to point out one more thing. everyone is saying trump is a liar and biden is not a liar. i live in delaware. biden has been lying his whole career. every politician lies.

none of them tell the truth. saying he is the better man is just a myth. that is all i have. thanks. host: charles is in missouri on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i am a lifelong registered democrat. my parents always warned me about the lesser of two evils. that is what we are facing now. this time, i do not think joe biden needs to stay on the ticket. he is too old. his economy -- i do not like the way he has handled inflation. i do not like the way he has taken covid as a national mandate. covid is coming back now and 38 different states and increasing our health care costs. i would like to see pete buttigieg on the ticket or gretchen whitmer or even gavin newsom. gavin newsom -- a lot of people do not like high consumer rights

and worker rights. they are not ready for a progressive america that way, but get somebody younger. democrats need to start planning and not leave bumbling old folks to lead us because it does not look good. it does not look good sending someone to an national summit and you cannot talk. donald trump makes his share of gaffes, but you cannot send any of these guys to be the leader. say a prayer for us all. host: james is in maryland on our line for independents. caller: i would like to say i'm tired of people saying trump is a dictator when this biden is three times as bad. he is willing to destroy his own party to keep power. he needs to go. he needs to go and democrats

have to quit being so stupid. host: larry is in alabama on our line for to make rats -- democrats. caller: first, i would like to ask you if you'd ask susan swan, one of the owners of c-span, would you ask her if she attended the democratic convention in september? i know she did hear the republicans. i would like for joe biden, president biden, to stay in the race. i would like him to know that the convention -- the republican convention never brought up about poor people. president biden had. i would like for people out in united states to know this, that this world we live in this nation that we are in in the

united states of the richest nation in this country, and for former president trump to call president biden a communist, he must be joking. how can you call president biden a communist wen yu in the hands -- when you mac in the hands of north korea kim -- when you in the hands of north korea kim and in the hands of china? donald trump is getting paid from saudi arabia to buy his trump tower. i do not see how he can call that p or and there are two types of leaders in this country. dictatorship and authoritarian. authoritarian is like president biden is. listen to the people under him. but donald trump is a dictator. he dictates things to people and

tells them you either do it my way or you fired. host: we will be covering the democratic national convention on c-span and you'll be able to find that coverage here and on our website. let's move to ruby in texas on our line for republicans. caller: good morning to you all. i'm calling for -- from texas, west texas, and i pray that those who believe in prayer will pray for the correct person to run as i am not the wisest person, nor ignorant person that i truly believe mr. biden with health issues, with the stumbling and problems

vocalizing, i believe it is time for him to step aside. i pray for god's will to be done in his life and i am a republican. i think very hard on this and i would like to tell you thank you for the privilege of voicing my thoughts and opinions on c-span. it is a privilege. thank you very much. host: next we have gus in ohio. good morning. caller: i went through four years of donald trump and there is not one time that i have ever seen donald trump do anything for this country. nothing. joe biden in his time when he

inherited donald trump's economy , he had to turn around and did a were markable job. -- a remarkable job. how do republicans come up with all this stuff they are saying about joe biden? that is the way they think. that is their mentality. all they are his cattle and sheep to trump. they call him all these names and everything. joe biden, even though he is older now, he still has a sharp mind. do not believe nothing this trump says, nothing. everything is a lie. you believe him, you are going to take this country down to the dumps. i am going to tell you something else. joe biden was a better president than a lot of other presidents that came on and change this country.

every time we had a republican president, we had to have a democrat in to fix it. guess who takes the credit? the republican president. do not believe anything. iceman four years with donald trump and he did nothing at all that had -- putin's backside. the city its -- these idiots who call themselves republicans, all you are is cattle and sheep. caller: i will try to keep it clean despite my thoughts about alabama talking about a low iq, which he is clearly demonstrating. i support joe biden and i'm frustrated with these elected democrats who are afraid to run their own campaigns and instead of talking and attacking donald trump, who by the way it a

convicted felon, he is a textbook narcissist and he surrounds himself with people who are dangerous. joe biden should stay in this race because it is a race between the antichrist and good. it is a race between good and people and people need to look to what could happen possibly in the next four years. if donald trump is back to the white house, he is never going to leave. so republicans think that you are going to be affected or democrats will only be affected by these crazy policies and notions, but they are going to be impacted too. when your social security changes, when you cannot get medicaid or medicare anymore, when they start rounding up people that you know or relatives that you know that happened to be from different cultures, then you are going to wake up, but we need to keep joe biden in this race. he is a man of integrity.

he stumbles. but he does not lack and has the values that represent america. host: deandre is in maryland on our line for republicans. caller: i feel like biden might as well just stay in. like someone said to have some backbone. with the situation we have now, democrats are looking for another candidate quit maybe gavin newsom comes to mind. for all the stomach rats who are saying trump this and trump that, the only crime trump committed was putting america first, trying to put the interests of the american people first. everyone else out here is

treasonous and npcs. i do not know what it is when to take. trump is the only hope we have. i'm not saying he is our savior, but right here, right now, that is the only option we got. biden is owned and bought out by beijing. his entire family is getting paid by chinese nationals and have been since 2015. congress has already done hearings on it. i do not know these people are talking about. it is like they are blind and deaf to everything true and factual. everything else they say -- there is no proof of it. it is starting to become -- it is starting to get old. they are running out of options. it is either they go all in or show who they truly are, cheaters, liars, advocated for violence.

the democratic party and liberals will be the destruction of this country in my opinion. host: bruce is in kentucky on our line for independents. caller: every time i call, i get you. i like you cut too. as far as biden staying in the race, i think he should not stay in the race. i do not think people will have enough confidence in him to be able to go on. i wanted to tell you i like your show a lot. i watch a lot because i think it is interesting and i think it shows that people really do want to get together. i just think there are so many things going on, so many problems that people do not know where to start. and that is pretty much all i have to say. have a good day. i hope it rains here in kentucky. host: next is terry in illinois

on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i think biden has a great agenda and that is what republicans are afraid of. not the republicans, per se. i am talking about the elite. they are talking about raising taxes on people. host: can you turned down the volume on your tv and continue? caller: absolutely. he is talking about raising taxes on people who make more than $400,000 and above. the corporate tax rate expires in 2025 and they know by biden being the leader -- so i think it is bigger than just joe biden and trump. it is the agenda he is fighting

for and the child tax credits. that is all i have to say. host: donald in raleigh, north carolina on our line for republicans. caller: i am a retired republican african-american and i am riding with biden. i think he is honest. i think he is decent. i think the projection they have put on him from television -- i am still with him. thank you for taking my comment. have a good day. host: mary is in philadelphia on our line for democrats. caller: i think president biden needs to stay in the race. as a retired government employee, when i'm hearing that a former president trump will

take away the rights of the civil service employees, i was a civil service employee for 45 years. and the things that we had to go through, a federal background checks, fingerprinting, and excruciating tests, going through psychological training, and to hear this man say he is going to appoint more people that agree with his agenda, any time am hearing that former president trump is saying that he was smart for not paying his taxes, and these people are calling up, they must be not in the range of paying taxes because i have to pay my taxes as a former government employee and to hear this man stating

that they are taking away your rights, not only on a federal level with the supreme court but also the state level. so we need to wake up to reality . at least we can work with president biden. there is no way you can work with someone that is stating that they are going to make major changes that is not in your benefit to enrich themselves and high taxpayers -- corporations and businesses in this country. thank you and have a good day. host: david is in california on our line for independents. caller: thank you for getting my call. it is really early here in california. i think it is time for the real president to go ahead and say kamala harris is more than

qualified to run. that is what he should do at this point. donald trump is a fascist and will lead us down a path that would just -- it is just scary. i lived through the nixon years. i am a vietnam veteran. it is amazing how this donald trump has become as powerful as he is. it is almost scary. thank you for getting me on. host: there is an ap story here referring to some recent polling, saying a majority of democrats think kamala harris would make a good president, according to any people -- an ap poll. a majority of democrats think his vice president when make a good president herself. a new poll from the ap center for public affairs resorts --

research found democrats believe she would do a good job in the top spot. about two in 10 do not think she would. if you look further down there, there is more showing americans more broadly are more skeptical of how harris would perform in the oval office. only about three in 10 u.s. adults overall say harris would do well as president. about half say harris would not do a good job in the role. two in 10 say they do not know enough to say. harris's favorability rating is similar to biden's but the share of americans who have an unfavorable opinion of her is somewhat lower. carl is in tennessee on our line for democrats. caller: i wanted to remind everyone that when one of trump's minions tried to kill

paul pelosi with a hammer, he stood on stage. he laughed. made fun of him, called him gay. and his maggots behind him laughed along with him. host: do you think president biden should stay on the democratic ticket? caller: i will vote for president biden if his head is in a jar of formaldehyde. i will vote for anyone that is on the democratic ticket. this man is going to destroy the country. he is destroying christianity. real christians are looking at him and they see through him. he will destroy christianity and real christians had better wake up. >> ted is in north carolina on our line for republicans.

caller: good morning. i'm on the republican line, but i must say i am embarrassed of the republican party. i would have to vote for president biden. if anything happens to him then, harris can take over. please abandon donald trump before it is too late. host: angela is a night massachusetts on our line for independents. -- is in independence -- massachusetts on a line for independents. caller: i have had a terrible four years. i cannot see my grandchildren. i cannot buy groceries i need for my husband who just had a big operation. i cannot afford it.

i cannot afford my electric light bill. i can't for heat. i cannot afford to have my grass mowed because i do not have the money. my life has been miserable. i cannot believe -- i have been political for years. i remember watching the chicago democratic convention and i remember one man from nbc. there was so much friction they actually escorted this man out the door. i think this is going to happen in chicago again. host: do you think biden should stay on the ticket? caller: you know something, kamala harris has a lower approval rating. if these democrats want him, i

think it is untenable. i do not think he will win the presidency. people who are elderly and on a fixed income -- i'm 88 years old. i do a lot of my own housework. this man is the worst that has ever been in the presidency. if people think he has done a great job, i want to see what actually great job. the money in massachusetts is going to illegals. they are paying millions of dollars to have people in hotels and the veterans are out on the street homeless. what in god's great earth do these people who call about biden see about the goodness? we have two wars going on. when trump was president, they were afraid of him.

our country was secure. now we have taiwan. host: let's hear from nick in louisiana on our line for democrats. caller: thanks for c-span. what i want to say to you -- everybody other listening to this is talking about c-span itself. do you think c-span will exist when trump is an office and you can voice your opinion? if you ever thought about a billionaire and what it means, if you think about a billionaire, that is a person that can make thousand dollars a day and we go broke for 2400 something years.

host: do you think biden should remain on the ticket? caller: i do because we had other presidents -- that man is not sick. that man always had a speech impediment. he is so mad with trump and his policies. he is against them. this is what is happening here. we do not know what authoritarian meant. what putin does every day to his people who go against him -- i do not know why the republicans do not see it. once he gets in office, he could do what he wants when he is in place. what are we talking about? you will not have a right to say that is not right. we have been here before, so why

do we look at this like this? why are we looking at it like this? host: i want to point to some headlines here from thehill.com about a rally that occurred in d.c.. a grassroots group held a rally outside the white house. pass the torch, and you grassroots group -- a new grassroots group calling for biden to step out of the race, held a rally outside the white house saturday. thank you, joe, it is time to go, the organizers chanted outside the gates. approximately 100 people were in attendance. that group has a new ad they will start airing on msnbc on monday and we have a clip of that. [video clip] >> president biden, you saved democracy in 2020. >> now you have a chance to do

it again. >> it is time to pass the torch to a new nominee. >> someone who can bring new hope and make sure donald trump near the -- never gets to the white house again. >> be the leader we know you are. pass the torch, joe. >> pass the torch. >> pass the torch is responsible for the content of this advertising. host: david is in new york on our line for independents. caller: i would like to know who is supporting pass the torch. joe biden has run a professional administration. he is old. i was horrified with his debate with trump. trump lied through his teeth can't live like he always does. there's never any substance to what donald trump says.

he is a liar. joe biden give us the infrastructure bill. trump tried to do that for four years. that didn't happen with him. biden did. joe biden is the man. i do not care if he is in a coffin. i'm voting for him. as for the republican party can't get in line. get going. host: barbara is in washington, d.c. on our line for democrats. caller: the reason i'm calling is biden needs to stop because of his physical and mental declining. he should allow vice president kamala harris to win. he is stopping at on behalf of destroying the democratic and he needs to go. i'm sorry he has gotten old. we all get old, but he needs to let go. i hope by monday they will make sure he will leave because it is

frustrating to so many people that want him to lead and he know he is not capable of doing this for the next four years. i hope everyone agrees with me and understands his mental illness and physical illness is declining. thank to all. host: a previous caller was asking about the funding for the group pass the torch. on their website, they say pass the torch has raised money from over 350 individual democratic donors the fund its operation and donate to the new nominee. much of the money raised through its website is set aside on a platform for democrats who do not want to invest in biden anymore but wants to keep contributing to a new democratic ticket. those funds will go to the eventual nominee. full information be available through our filing. good morning.

>> i watched the debate. he did not do well, but he did not lose and he did not live. i watch the entire republican convention. good show. better job than whoever rescued the oscars. but there is still the bottom line of what affects you. and do you want to win? biden should stay until there is an alternative presented. if harris is at, that will happen organically. any moment spent now in the last four months debating anything is lack of unity. democrats should listen to nikki haley's speech at the rnc. unity is the ballgame. if you cannot hold it together, the other side will win. elon musk alone is giving the rnc $45 million a month.

ultimately, everyone has to figure out what directly affects them. in 1983, the republicans slashed social security. remember bush? people have short memories and thank god for c-span because you can look up all this stuff going back to eisenhower leaving office, which was the first time i heard the term military industrial complex. host: let's go to jack in ohio on our line for republicans. >> i would like to see biden step down because what he has done -- all these black

democrats keep calling in. they would never go to talk to the people in chicago or in new york and see what democratic politicians have done. i am a foundational black american. you're sick of this. i had to jump off the plantation of the democratic party. two other black democrat politicians, we see the game now. you have done nothing for the black men. the woman and she's got to have kids. we don't get no shop because they leave us to felonies and stuff like that. that's why we don't really care about -- i can't believe. trump. what trump has done. when it comes to the black men

like me, 10 years a penitentiary, 15 years to get a job, most of my friends where they went to prison, they were given another chance because they have the 70's which are black men a lot. host: we are out of time for this segment. appreciate everybody who called in this hour. coming up next we are going to hear from two political prose about the week we had in politics. later on we are going to speak with harvard university professor stephanie -- was going to discuss her book "how the heartland with red." we will be right back. >> taxes will go up and anyone

who says they won't is not telling the truth. >> you're in the midst of a springtime of hope for america. >> because we are the party who believes in the american dream. >> read my lips. i still believe in a place called hope. >> here's the question for the american people. who do you trust in this election? the real question is whether we will build a bridge to the future or a bridge to the past. i had unlimited confidence in the wisdom of our people in the future of our country. >> i stand here tonight as my own man and i want you to know me for who i really am. >> they had their chance. >> i'm john kerry and i'm reporting for duty. >> four years of moments i could

not foresee and will not forget. >> i wasn't my own man anymore. i was my countries. >> i don't believe that rolling back regulations on wall street will help us milk -- small business woman expand with the laid-off construction worker keep his home. we have been there, we try that we are not going back. we are moving forward, america. >> under my administration our friends will see more loyalty and mr. coons will see a little less flexibility. >> he wants to make america great again, well he could start by actually making things in america again. >> we will make america safe again. and we will make america great again. >> here and now, i give you my word. you can trust me with the presidency, i will draw on the best of us, not the worst.

>> this towering american spirit has prevailed over every challenge and lifted us to the summit of human cover. >> c-span, your unfiltered view of the conventions, powered by cable. washington journal continues. host: welcome back to talk about the week we had in politics. we are joined by martha mckenna who is also the founder of mckenna media and republican strategist and partner at sutherland are mike ritchie. what of the program. -- welcome to the program. give your thoughts on the gop convention. i mean, have we seen the postconvention polling bounce that we often get mark >> for republicans, the most successful convention our party has had in at least 20 years. it is unifying, even

entertaining at times. i definitely came into the week expecting to see hulk hogan cutting pressmen promote any national party convention but also to show you in general the news he hasn't of the ticket. those are the most important things coming out of an election coming out of the convention is having that momentum. these other things we usually associate with democrats, unity and enthusiasm and we don't see that right now. i was at the convention in cleveland in 2016 when trump was first nominated. still felt like he was the outsider, he was the interloper. he gave that speech where he said i alone can fix it, and it just wasn't the same as this. this was very much his show, his platform. he has won the battle for the soul of the party and again, there's just a lot of unity, enthusiasm. we will certainly see what the polling bears out. i don't think there have been polling bounce is as much coming out of conventions at that youth be but given all the things we

seen in the last 24 days going back to the debate, trump has certainly opened up a bit of a lead here and we should certainly expect that to continue. host: amid the programming this week was designed to expand the base, reach out to new audience republicans. how successful do you think those efforts were? >> i think there was some of that would having reality show stars, having moving presentations including from goldstar families. at the same time i would say that a lot of this, you heard from hulk hogan, dana white who runs the usc. his running mate j.d. vance from ohio. a lot of this is really about turning out the face of white voters. white men in particular abandoned trump in a 2020 and it's one of the big reasons why he lost. so a lot of what you saw actually was about getting that enthusiasm back, especially in

the rust belt in the midwest among that base. i think that the trump campaign was very much focused on the strategy of turning out their base at this point. host: what do you think j.d. vance brings to the ticket? he has a relative unknown to many people. guest: in his speech he talked about pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan and ohio. clearly that will be a big focus. just yesterday in grand rapids he spoke for 10 minutes, told his story about growing up in southwest ohio. he talked about the industrialization of these areas, jobs leaving, funding wars overseas. the american first nationalism that we've come to see from president trump. i think the second thing actually was the song that

played after he spoke which was fleetwood mac, don't stop thinking about tomorrow. clearly, this is a pivot to trying to turn maga into a more generational project, trying to solidify the soul of the party. i think those two things, the focus on the rust belt but also the pivot to the next generation are two of the big things that stand out to me about him. >> agent generational differences have been obviously the topic of discussion for democrats this week. where do they stand? >> i can't say where things stand. like many americans, i'm hearing both the call from party leaders for president biden to step down and then their response from president biden and his team that they are going to work as hard as possible and keep moving, keep focused on reaching out to the american people and talking about the future, but

also describing what america would be like under trump. but i think the hardest part here is that without convention coming later on this month, we have to bring this chapter to a close. right now trump is really able to set the stage and dominated his convention. begin to shine that spotlight and start to educating american people about the future of the country under a second trump presidency. we are missing an opportunity as we are focused inside the party on trying to figure out what comes next for the leadership. we are missing the opportunity to draw that distinction with the future under donald trump which would be terrible from an economic perspective, certainly

for women and abortion rights, and there are many, many things that the 2025 project outline, we need to be putting our attention there as opposed to this internal discussion. this needs to come to a close soon. and it will with the convention right around the corner. host: looking at this abc news article of the dnc, moving forward with a virtual roll call on the biden nomination despite concerns in the democratic national committee rules committee on friday made the case for proceeding with president joe biden's virtual nomination while also outlining next steps in the process and how a virtual roll call voting would work. can you explain what is going on there and the timeline around this? guest: the timeline around the nomination process, it's about getting this nomination finished before the convention.

and the reason we are talking about this now is because democrats have planned a convention later that is traditional. with the convention coming later in august, it means we have to finish the rollcall vote earlier, nominate the presidents of that balance could be printed across the country in different states and we can meet those state-by-state deadlines. this would generally not be an issue, it would be a moment for the rules committee to step for the nomination of the president. if this discussion about whether joe biden should remain at the presidential nominee or step aside that has really put the rules committee under the spotlight and this timeline under a spotlight. but it really was created because the democrats decided that the convention slightly later in the summary not earlier so that the ballots need to be printed, the process needs to be moved forward and that rollcall vote needs to happen for the dominoes to follow the race. >> plugs the pull your ca telling you about biden's strength in this race compared to some of these other names floated around?

guest: the country is very well educated. they know these two men, they have opinions of them and they know them well. what we did here from the chair of the biden campaign on friday is that they have seen some slippage and they have seen some sliding in the polls. nothing dramatic, nothing that can't be overcome, but she did acknowledge that the numbers are moving around. i think it's important to say that it's not as if the country has all the democratic party, the republicans are going to stick with donald trump and democrats with joe biden, but it may be the democrats are using the polling right now to send a message. job 100% or i'm going to say i'm not with him just send a message. i think that people are using polling now at this moment in time slightly differently because if you get that chance to voice your opinion you can say i am for job 100% or i'm

going to send a message that i'm not. we are going to see polling jump around quite a bit. coming out of this republican convention, they would be expected to get a nice bump and that might be what we are going to see. i don't know that this is made on polling for the president. i don't know what the family is considering but i do think that democrats need to stay focused. it is very common for republicans to get a pump from the convention. we have to work through that, and i think we would be a strong convention the democrat that sort of leads us into that post labor day period of time where the american people really focus and start to make decisions about how they are going to vote. host: speaking of polling, i wonder if we are able to gauge yet what impact the assassination attempt on former president trump has done for his standing and public opinion and also have what is going on with the democrats is affecting

things on the republican side. guest: even coming into the convention they were polls that show the race was still fairly static nationally. obviously in the president's case, showing that he still has a path to victory. i think we should be clear about that. i think the president will always have some for the path the victory if he stays in the race given how divided the country is and how close the margin of victory and defeat in the election has been in recent elections. i think the most crucial states, we are seeing more separation especially in some of the midwestern states that i mentioned. what democrats call the blue wall. i'm sure what people are looking at even more closely, j.d. vance is going tomorrow to a rally in virginia, which is sort of become a blue state, but polling shows that trump has made real headway there. even ahead in some point.

so the more that republicans can expand the map and this timer democrats are going through a lot of uncertainty which is really paralyzing the party, the more the republicans can take advantage of it to expand that and put more states and play, the better things are for trump. i think that the pole that were public in the looking at closely, including where they can expand the map and put more things in play. >> i blasted both of the the question we asked in previous hour, -- host: i will ask the question that we asked both of you the previous hour, if you were advising would you ask a president biden step aside or not? guest: we have such a great group of leaders in the party which i do think president biden should take a lot of credit for. for building up a tremendous group of governors, we have vice president harris who is a really solid leader, she's been learning from president biden the last four years.

i'm not going to say that i personally know exactly what i would do in that situation, because i think that if you are advising the president you have a whole lot more information, you know the day today, you know his health status, you know sort of the energy level. but i am confident that if he were to step aside that we have a very solid leader in vice president harris. i think she could step into the job of running for president and being president. i think we have a number of governors and senators and other party leaders who have done really hard work in the state, and many of the states that mike talk it out. strunk governors of pennsylvania, michigan, other places where democrats in leadership has to work with republicans, find common ground in order to govern. i think we are in a strong position of a party, whether joe biden decides to remain in this room or he passes the torch to vice president harris. are we have an open convention process. i really feel like this is the

kind of family discussion that needs to happen, but once the final decision is made, i think the party will bounce back. i think you will see a huge level of energy, whether president biden stays or we move on, just this period of time and uncertainty has people worried and curious but once it is over i do think people will breathe a big sigh of relief. i think you will see a level of excitement that will be well-timed as we head into that labor day critical period. host: what would you suggest? guest: if i were advising the party leaders, just yesterday nancy pelosi was in north carolina and she wouldn't even use joe biden's name, she just said are you ready for a democratic president? i don't know if you million the president of the united states is the best way to go about this. but i will say if i were advising the president for me,

it would just be a question of whether he is up to and able to serve another four years as president. obviously there's a lot of doubt about that right now, and really to me, it's not just a question of whether he can run again, that might not be the right standard. there's always going to be a path to wind in this environment. it really about whether he could serve another four years. that's what you're are asking the country for. that's also the question that i would be putting to him right now. host: now we will have any questions from the audience that they want to put the two of you. if you'd like to call in, the numbers are democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's start with marty in new york on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, folks. i am a conservative republican from long island, and i really love this country.

and i have to say to the democratic party, the senate and congress together, and kamala is the right person. this is not a public campaign. we are talking about america. i feel we should come up with somebody who's going to be right for the country. yes, she's the first black person. yes, she might be the president, but are we doing it as a part of relations or are we having this be done for the great america? and my question is, is this a public relation campaign or is it best for america? host: i will give that one to you, martha. guest: sure. the discussions about whether or

not joe biden should stay at the top of the ticket really have been nice think after this debate a public discussion. i don't think it is necessarily a public relations campaign for something that the democrats would have wanted, frankly, to have this conversation quite so publicly. but that's where we are. i do think in many ways it shows the strength of the party that we can public the disagree with each other, we can publicly disagree with our president, and we can come forward in a sort of civil and constructive way to say here's what my constituents are worried about, you're hearing this from members of congress and members of the senate, here's what folks are worried about and what we need to focus on and here's what i'm hearing. it hasn't been a public relations campaign, one would say let's have this internal discussion quite so publicly,

but i do think it has provided people a chance to speak out about what is on the minds of their constituents and folks in their community. i also think it provides us a moment to shine a spotlight on vice president harris, who was a prosecutor and then attorney general of california. she would have to transnational gangs for drug smuggling and guns. she really worth the whole wells fargo and banks accountable during the mortgage and housing crisis to get payments back for homeowners in california. she has a really strong record as attorney general, and as senator and now vice president. i think this two weeks starting frank the the really terrific teeth erica greene wrote two weeks ago for the new york times really show the work the vice president has been doing, the life that she's led, the experience that she brings in her track record. she has really conducted herself very well and then really loyal to the present, loyal to the

country, and i think it has been freight to take a look at vice president harris in the last few weeks. this is what i'm hearing from people, this is what is on folks' minds when it comes to president biden and he has had a difficult couple of weeks, there's no doubt. from the debate now to the covid diagnosis, it has been hard. but i would not say that if the party got together and said with handle this quietly or let's have the office of the big public relations campaign, i think each day has had a new moment of something unexpected that we didn't anticipate. i do think at the thin line nears of the convention, these issues are going to come into focus. >> johnson, pennsylvania, line for democrats. good morning. >> yes, good morning to either one of these guests.

if donald trump would become incapacitated somehow, he's not exactly a young, healthy guy, do you really think that j.d. vance is qualified to be president of the united states? only a half year of being a senator. i'm not sure about that. and also the polls. micrococcus -- mike dukakis had a lead over bush and lost the election. don't count on polling. i'm riding with biden. if he comes out a wheelchair and can only talk in sign language i would still vote for him over the alternative. after the convention i think polls are going to change. the american people will see the difference of project 2025,

where trump says he knows nothing about it is a lot of baloney. believe me, the heritage foundation runs his campaign. that's my comment for today. thank you. host: mike, would you like to respond to the question about j.d. vance in particular? guest: sure. barack obama was a senator for about two and a half, three years before he decided to run for resident. i don't know that that is an important qualification. but i think it's one of the things we will certainly put to the test here, how he performs on the campaign trail. obviously it will be put under some scrutiny, it already is. except for maybe sarah palin, these campaigns do not usually come down to a vice presidential nominee. they usually have one debate, because fine, people move on because they really keep their focus on the top of the ticket. this is president trump's choice

to make. he said some governors on the list, some senators as well. but it is certainly fair to scrutinize j.d. vance's background and to have that conversation. that is one of the think the campaign is for. he has a voting record in the senate, he's obviously made clear his stance on foreign policy issues, especially ukraine. but again, that's one of the things we can certainly put to the test here. i just don't think it will be determinative over the next 100 days or so. host: folks also also mentioned former president trump distancing himself from project 2025. he talked about that yesterday at his rally in grand rapids, michigan and they want to play a clip of that. >> and you know the other side is going around trying to make me sound extreme, like i'm an extremist. i'm not. i'm a person with great common

sense, i'm not an extremist at all. like some on the right, severe right came up with this project 25 and i don't even know. some of them i know who they are, but they are very, very conservative. they are sort of the office of the radical left. you have the radical left and you have the radical right and they come up with this. i don't know what it is. project 25. he's involved. and then they read some of the things, they are extreme. they are seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. i don't want to know anything about it. but what they do is misinformation and disinformation and they keep saying he's a threat to democracy. i say what did i do to democracy? last week i took a bullet for democracy. host: i want to get both of your thoughts on that clip. starting with you, mike, what do you think of this effort from

the former president to distance himself from project 2025? guest: while on the substance, i agree with him that there are things about project 2025 that are troubling. it really lays waste to some core american values, separation of powers being one of them. but looking at it from a political perspective which is why we're are here this morning, two saturdays ago when president trump came out disavowed project 2025, it would certainly stand to reason that his team sees some vulnerabilities in project 2025. democrats have had some success in making it more of a national issue, getting some recognition for it. clearly there might be some calculation here that it is a vulnerability and that the more he distances himself from it, i just also don't think that in

the second trump presidency, that he wants to feel like he is being owned or his agenda is being written for him. we saw him ad lib. an extra half hour to his remarks as someone who wants to go by his own script. on a personal and political level, i think these are conscious choices he is making to distance himself. however, this definitely some political captivation for sure. guest: we certainly know the donald trump has a history of lying. this is something he did alter the debate, the first term. he likes to create ism sense of reality and he likes to sell it. and it is many times untrue. and i think this idea that he has nothing to do with project 2025 is another one of his eyes. he has a number of longtime supporters, close advisers at the heritage foundation working on this project. they have dealt with the

transition roadmap for the trump presidency. so there is a connection here with trump people, trump allies, trump advisers and project 2025. and as mike said, it is troubling. it is about dismantling the federal government, really backing the government with trump loyalists who will do what he wants. it has a lot to do with tearing down the separation of the three branches of government so that the president has ultimate power and control, can see political revenge, can go after the supreme court in order to go after opponents that having any kind of rule of law. it could be very, very ugly. and what it means for the american people is really a roadmap for the end of democracy. absolute power for the president.

it really could take away a number of programs, things that people depend on from the federal government. it also is part of another piece of this, and reproductive rights and abortion rights in america. and in project 2025 it would rollback any opportunity for us to regain rights as women that roe v. wade afforded us. it's very dangerous. trump knows it, they want to distance themselves from it. but that is just another one of his lies. when the heritage foundation says this is a roadmap for the transition for the trump presidency, we should believe them. host: richard is in tennessee on the line for independent. good morning. caller: i have four questions for your guest. if i could preface it with saying i hope we can hear more about strategy than surrogacy,

and i have a bet going that project 2025 more than maga, so i am doing well. here are my four questions. and i think every time you have strategist form. number one, what does a strategist actually do? what does that mean when you say you are a strategist? what do you actually do? number two, do you have to be a true believer in the cause to be a strategist, or are you a hired gun for anyone who wants to use your services? number three, who pays you? who actually hires you? i'm assuming you work for someone with your services, and the most important question of all, number four, how much did

you make? what is your salary or your fee that you charge because this looks like a great gig and i am interested. host: so those are a lot of questions. that's db them up. mike, why don't you enter the question of what is a strategist? >> there are different kinds of strategists. for instance, i am a communications strategist for governor larry hogan in his campaign for the united states senate in maryland. so i advise him on communications strategy, messaging, at the deal with media. social media. press conferences, things like that. there are strategist like political strategists who dive into polling and tv, so there's actually different types of strategists within a campaign.

but that is just an example to you to illustrate. i just want to say on the true believer point, again, usually, yes, you want it to be someone or something that you believe in. that can be hard to find in today's politics, for sure. ideally yes, something or someone that you believe in. host: that's questions wanted to. number three, who pays you? mike just mentioned that he works for larry hogan and you have other clients as well. guest: it is a great question, richard. a bit of a curveball this morning but i appreciate it very much. i am lucky enough to work with a number of members of congress, folks who are in leadership in state legislature. my career started working for women running for local and

state office in baltimore and maryland. similar to mike, a maryland are this morning. and i went to the democratic party because of what the party stood for, for social justice issues, economic issues, leadership issues. within the democratic party, a space for a young woman as i was 25 years ago to make a difference and make the world a better place. so i definitely fall in that true believer category. through a number of different opportunities that i've had the democratic party, i became a campaign manager and now i make tv ads for democratic candidates. mostly women hire me, richard. women like becca balance, a member of congress from vermont. i make tv ads in alaska, new mexico. i've been lucky enough to be

able to have these women tell their stories through television ads and from communications in their states and districts. so yes, definitely a true believer. somebody that i personally am lucky to have a career and be a strategist for women who run for office who i believe in. so it has been a great career, but has been a good career. definitely one where most days it is long, hard work. we get to celebrate when we win, but it is good work, it is definitely a blessing to be able to tell women's stories as they run for office. host: and the fourth question was how much money do you make and/or charge? guest: i bought this shirt at t.j. maxx and i'm very solidly

in the middle class. i have no complaints but we are not living large. host: mike, do you want to respond to that guest: i got this shirt and tie at target a couple days ago. i would just say, you can look that up, campaigns have to list what they receive and what they report. you can go online and look it up. host: i did a quick search on zip recruiter and it looks like the average salary in washington, d.c. for a political strategist is around $149,000 per year. let's go to bill in orange park, florida on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: i just got an idea of how when mr. trump gets in, if you lower the gas price to $1.75 per gallon, why can't he reopen

all these gas stations? people could make $.10 a gallon, which would be a good wage. besides that, mike, why don't you tell people that you are a never trumper and you work for paul ryan? host: i will you respond to that. guest: i did work for paul ryan. john boehner as well. i was proud to. i've never class about myself -- i worked with the trump administration when i worked for paul ryan, but i don't classify myself one way or the other in a trump or not trumper or never trumper category. these are just the people i've worked for. over the course of my career. there are certainly proposals about energy that would maybe add to the price of gas.

some states like georgia and maryland, actually trying to suspend the gas tax to save people some money. but i can tell you that one of the big things, one of their big metrics for how they feel about the economy is the price of gas. obviously president trump has talked about tariffs, he has talked about taking note taxes on tips. i'm not sure how he would feel about raising the price of gas. you could send him your idea. host: let's keep it in maryland with leroy in baltimore. caller: america is still white. they want joe biden to step down. at least, a lot of them are saying maybe kamala could rise up. the first woman president, a

miracle once that woman president to be white, not black. look how long it took them to get a black president after all those years. they want the first woman president to be white. no matter what you say. host: i will let them respond to that point. guest: always good to hear from you baltimoreian, i really believe that vice president harris was chosen by joe biden to be his running mate because of the strength for record and because of her smarts. she's is a prosecutor out of california. as attorney general, she took on the toughest fights. she took on big banks, transnational games, corporations. she did not back down. and as vice president she has really been a loyal partner to him which is so critical. what is been a tumultuous four years. building out infrastructure,

paying major bipartisan legislation passed, and now, this is just a moment in history. we will not have a primary process where lots of benefactors taken forward in the traditional sense. joe biden is continuing his presidency and has run for the presidency. and if that were to change, they would be processes in place. but i do think it is important to say that vice president harris is tough, she is ready, she is smart and she is loyal. i do think that if the time comes and there is a change, i think she has prepared herself well. she has taken a job very seriously, and she will do a great job. but it is an unusual situation that we are in where we have a discussion going on in the party about whether or not joe biden should that down, but whether or

not the history books are kind to us in any of this for maize to be seen. but i do think you should lift up vice president harris because she has just an extraordinarily good partner. host: todd is in new york on the pre-defendants. good morning, todd. caller: i just want to make a general comment about the heat and the rhetoric in this particular election cycle is pretty discerning. as you can see it escalated to a potential assassination attempt to try to take a shot at the former president of the united states and taking the life of just a person who wanted to go to support his political candidate and that is quite tragic. i think what comes of that is i just heard the lady say before that trump supported project 2025. he has set over and over again, and i am independent, trump

calling the shots objectively, he said over and over again he does not support that. it is fear mongering and this attempt to sort of increase the rhetoric on calling trump hitler. it doesn't help our country to have these exaggerations being thrown back and forth. host: i will let both the respond to that. guest: i certainly respect where you're coming from, but i do not believe donald trump. not on project 2025, not a lot of different topics. he gives his point of view and states as a fact but that is just not true. we saw that over and over again with the lies he told during the debate. certainly he has legal problems, he's now convicted. it is important to point out the reason why we are having a discussion about j.d. vance is because mike pence had to step

away and separate himself from president trump because of the pressure that trump put on him to overturn democracy and january 6. mike pence said no more, and really at the end of it, that's why j.d. vance even has the opportunity. the separation there between mike pence and donald trump. it really comes down to whether or not you respect the rule of law, whether you act morally, whether you tell the truth. i don't believe the donald trump does that consistently. i don't believe that he respects the rule of law and i think that it is totally appropriate to fact check him and to hold him accountable just as i would expect voters to in the media to as well. i think we are going to learn a lot more about his ties to project 2025 over the next month and it is one thing to hold extreme views. it is another thing to be in power and be able to implement those extreme views on the

american people and that is what really is going to be drawn into focus between now and november. host: mike? guest: one thing that we should all the thinking about is how much the escalation of political rhetoric has also come alongside the escalation to the plywood. it used to be that political violence was generally against buildings, against structures. now we are seeing people affect gabby gifford being shot in january of 2011, we are living through this 13, 14, 15 years in which we see more public officials being targeted. it stands to reason when you see the thing that each side is saying about the other, chuck schumer standing on the supreme court steps promising reckonings for supreme court justices, republicans posting videos, democratic members of congress being targeted, memes and videos and the like, all of these things contribute to the

toxicity in our politics. one of the reasons why it is great to have forums like this is that we can come together to talk and we can agree or disagree and then move on with their day. i think what todd is saying is really important. it is certainly something that hopefully, president trump promised a new tone and then kind of got away from that. deacon -- this is probably the first convention speech were hannibal lector got a shout out. i think as much as we can joke about some of these things, i can tell you that all the minutes of congress were coming back to work in washington tomorrow will be holding hearings on what the secret service handled, president trump's rally in pennsylvania. members of congress are concerned about their own security. the family's are concerned about their securities. finding ways to lower the temperature is really important right now.

host: alvin is an ohio on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment that all of these democrats running around us and saying that biden should step aside, it is too late in the game to ask this man to step aside. ever since the debate what biden did a few stutters, everybody does that. even young people do that. that is not decide if he is cognitive. if you look at biden's record, biden has an outstanding record when it comes to passing policy for the american people. donald trump should not be president. since when can our society do we allow a convicted felon to run for president? in the state of florida that donald trump lives in, they have a law that convicted felons cannot even vote.

so why does this man running for president? i just don't get it. now, donald trump, e stutters. he loses his train of thought. so why isn't anybody saying that he should step aside? host: i want to let martha respond to that question raised early on about whether or not it is too late in the game. guest: there are rules of the rules committee, they've the convention and denomination. the timeline is fine. i do think that he brings up a great point about how joe biden is being held to a standard that donald trump should also be held to, and it was stunning to see him nodding off at his own convention now. and that to me also shows that we need to put the spotlight back on donald trump because he certainly stutters. i agree with you, president

biden has moments, but donald trump has so many strikes against him on the convictions, snoozing at his own convention. i think they brought hulk hogan in two way cap donald trump. and to go back to that fantasyland of fake wrestling to give donald trump his joy. but to wake him up because the truth of it is that i don't think that the convention was able to reach out to undecided voters or motivate women voters who republicans need to get to. i think they were just indulging donald trump to try to make him happy, keep him awake and on their toes. host: you mentioned outreach to new voters and they want to point to this washington post article about this double haters who could decide the election.

this is referring to folks who just really dislike both of these candidates. and i want to hear from both of you about is this particular group of people, how big of a group it is and how much they matter in this race. is either candidate making inroads with them? mike, let's go with you first. guest: no question. that majority of americans don't want this rematch. they didn't want this to be their choice. so i think that martha has been talking about this, that democrats can say we change that, we brought somebody new in, it would certainly begin to shake things up and potentially transformed that kind of outreach. i think that again, as we just alluded to, we call these nominees standardbearers because

they bear our standard. president biden just hasn't been able to do that, hasn't been able to bear the democratic party standard in the last few weeks. putting the spotlight on donald trump, and the people who are trying to push president biden out, they've been talking about how they want to consolidate this anti-trump coalition and reach the people you are talking about. i think the longer that this race, we are talking a lot about trump, but right now it really isn't about him. it is about president biden. the case, so many people you are hearing from and seemed in focus groups, they don't like trump but they just don't think president biden is up to it for another four years. we seen a shift here even in some double haters and it is just fascinating to watch that unfold. again, it has been 24 days since

that debate and you see how much the political world has changed. host: martha, what do we know about these folks? guest: these are people who tell pollsters that they don't like trump and they don't like biden. many of them like the democrat who is running for senate or have opinions about other races on the ballot but they are dissatisfied with this race that is before them for president. it is a term that pollsters came up with to really describe these folks who are disaffected with the choice for president. i think the difference between the parties here, about the republican convention is that the republicans have become the party of trump. that is what they are. this is his party. the folks who have spoken up and criticized him or voted against him for drawn attention to him in any kind of negative way were not even there.

they were not invited, they didn't speak. they might still be republicans but they did not attend and they did not participate because this is the party of trump. and that is different. you have seen over the last 24 days, and frank the last four years, joe biden is somebody who is in charge, he is the leader but he definitely has lifted up with his cabinet young leaders like pete buttigieg. he has put a spotlight on governors, like wes moore and gretchen whitmer and josh shapiro. he is somebody who has been able to put together a cabinet of leaders and equals and people who can be experts in their field, but who can also really be great communicators on behalf of the party. we are the democratic party, we stand for democratic values and the middle class and social justice issues, whereas the republicans have become the party of trump, it is his way were the highway and that is it. that is different for these

voters were trying to figure out which way to go when they are dissatisfied with the choices. host: diane is in arkansas on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i hope you don't cut me off. i'm calling because of this dishonesty. just like the gentleman calling from new york, there's been so much dishonesty. talking about women's rights and how we are going to lose the right to the supreme court. what is a strategist, she ought to know that the supreme court does not make laws. congress does. it should have never been put into law by the supreme court, roe v. wade.

it should have went right to the states. same thing with the right to marriage act. you set up there and you say when. host: diane, you are cutting in and out but i think i understand your point about women's rights. martha, i want to hear from you in response to diane's point and then mike, i'm interested to hear from you about the issue of abortion in this race. guest: sure. i do think abortion is a deciding issue in this race because with donald trump putting justices on the supreme court who then ruled on overturning roe v. wade and the dobbs decision, the decision about whether or not a woman can have an abortion in america is

now up to her elected officials in her state. it should be left to a woman and her doctor, her family. she should be able to make that choice when it comes to having an abortion, and a huge swaths of america, she now has to drive hundreds of miles or get on a plane in order to go to a state where there is a clinic to get reproductive health care. and that to me is not the freedom that we stand for as americans, it does not represent the opportunity that america holds for people if women cannot get full reproductive access and get an abortion in many, many states in the united states. and that is because of donald trump. that is because of the justice system, the people he nominated to the supreme court and because of the way that they ruled. and after roe v. wade was overturned he celebrated it and he took credit for it.

so we have to be aware that certainly there are people in this country who are pro-life and who don't believe in full reproductive freedom for women, but the overwhelming majority of americans do and that is going to be a really important piece of this election as it was in 2022. host: this obviously has a big impact on the midterm elections, and i'm wondering where you see things standing now. guest: i think we are certainly on track to see it playing a big role and we still certainly could coming into the senate. chuck schumer set up a bunch of votes to put republicans on record on not just abortion, but also ivf, contraception. and then there was the supreme court issues, the supreme court didn't do anything too radical, turning back the challenges that would have put things further to the right. and also, president trump and this was a theme last week around convention, president trump is really marginalized

voters in a way. he said he won't support a national abortion ban and that this is obviously a change from the party platform of the past. so i think it very much could begin issue again, the way that the race has changed in the last few weeks. we are not talking about these issues as much as we were before, and that is one of the challenges democrats have is to get back to the things they want to talk about, the things they want to put on the ballot. these issues, reproductive rights, it is an example of these issues actually on the ballot in terms of a referendum and constitutional amendments. if democrats wind it up the right way to capitalize on the issue, president trump, this is sort of the running theme here but he has been trying to distance himself from some of these things and again, republicans don't really have,

some republicans still support some kind of national band like the republicans want to push it back to the state. so there isn't really a unified message there, either. but it is just not something right now that democrats are capitalizing on the way that they probably hoped to coming into the summer. i could change especially if vice president harris goes to the top of the ticket. host: a question we received via text from john in massachusetts that i will give to you, martha. should the party decide to take president biden off the ticket, how would that affect primary elections in the future if they are meaningless? guest: i think this is an extraordinary situation and i don't think the party to take joe biden off the ticket. i think the discussions that we are seeing right now are appealing to president biden himself to make a decision.

but i don't think that this is a situation that could be easily repeated. we are not going to see primary elections overturned or ignored in the future by democrats. it is kind of an unusual set of circumstances that i don't think anyone in the party is looking to repeat anytime soon. host: last call for this segment from iran in north carolina on the line for independents. good morning. caller: yes, good morning, c-span. i want to challenge c-span to have the heritage foundation on and explain 2025. in the past you guys at that heritage foundation on four or five times a week. lately, after they became controversial, you do not want to invite them, but c-span, i like you but you have not been

complicit in having these groups on, the cato institution, heritage foundation. they are funded by russia, probably not directly. some of them probably don't even know. they are repeating everything put an says. putin could not have a better platform than c-span. you guys have caused a lot of this even though you do have some good and stuff like that. i think you need to have them on and explain whatever. c-span, i heard one guy say you guys would not be no more if we lose our democracy. i think you guys really should look at that. host: we have had a conversation on "washington journal" late last year about project 20 25.

we have had multiple conversations with folks across the clinical spectrum about that effort as well as other parts of the campaign, but that is all of the time that we have for this segment. i want to thank our guests, both political strategists. thank you both for your time this morning. coming up, we will go back to your calls in open forum. you can start calling in now. later, we will speak with harvard university professor stephanie ternullo, who will discuss her book "how the heartland went red." ♪ >> c-span has been delivering unfiltered congressional coverage for 45 years. here are highlights from a key moment. >> it is hard to speak after 25 years. i have been retired from

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2024 as we engage voters nationwide, asking what issue is most aborted to you in this election and why? >> i am from new hampshire, first time coming to an rnc convention. to save american dreams from high mortgage rates and prices. >> byron donalds and the great state of florida. the number one issue that matters to me is securing our border. it is going to be difficult to grow our economy and for our young people to be able to have great jobs and opportunities if we have a massively open border. >> i live in austin, texas. the most important thing for me is the constitution. i am an attorney.

i run a podcast. i think we politicize our court system and due process so much that people do not know what the constitution is. >> the most aborted issue for me in this election is the integrity of the election process because every other issue we care about and wish to voice our opinions on depends on trusting the results of the election. >> c-span's voices 2024. be part of the conversation. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are ready to hear your thoughts on the news and politics of the week. our line for democrats is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents at (202) 748-8002. we will start with bobby in west

virginia on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i just missed her last segment. i always wanted to talk to martha and mike about taxes. i had a couple questions i wanted to ask them. first, if biden is reelected, his proposal on taxes is from 400,000 above he was going to increase the taxes at the rate that people are paying below that. i fall into that category. also, he said the corporate tax was dropped down to 8% under president trump when he was in office. biden is wanting to eat increase -- increase that tax up to 25%,

20%, or something. that would help this country out tremendously. also, i did hear martha and mike say something about their taxes and income, if i not mistaken. i want to know what category they fell in and if their taxes would be increased and if they for the most part -- the democratic party and also the republican party have people that is well into those financial categories. you know what i am saying. i wanted -- it is kind of like the elephant in the room that nobody is talking about because it is going to affect both

parties. you have corporate republicans and corporate democrats and people that make over $400,000. that would hit a majority of the american people, so that is all i have to say. thank you for taking my call. host: let's hear from lauren in minnesota on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: the fascination on trump, i think that was all planned by the democrats. why do people hate trump? he was in no wars. the border was under control. i think they are afraid we will be good again. we are paying the price for them rigging the election. host: brian is in florida on our

line for independents. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to comment and guards to what martha was saying about reproductive health care. i'm struggling to understand why abortion is referred to as health care when it is terminating the life of a baby. if a woman was doing drugs or drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes, we will be appalled by that, but if a woman wants to terminate her child we call it health care. what part of abortion is reproductive health care? host: she is no longer here to respond to that, but i hear your point. next is bradley in michigan on our line for democrats. caller: thank you for taking my call. joe biden has lapses while speaking to him as we know, and

sometimes is very faint in his volume, but his followers and trump accepting anything he says such as in grand rapids. hannibal lector again. he has been indicted -- that putin is a tough leader wanting what is best for his country. he will triple the car industry but kamala harris is crazy and you can tell by the cackles she is as crazy as a bug. i have your biggest cuts and regulations and tax cuts. what's most aborted? regulations. i only can stop world war iii and we are very close, october 7 would never have happened, inflation would never have happened. i can go on and on, but thank you. listen to this guy. host: representative sheila

jackson lee, champion it says here for progressive causes, died at 74. she died saturday -- friday in houston. a democrat from texas who was the leading voice for racial justice and progressive causes during three decades for the house, she died friday in houston. she was 74. her death was announced in a statement by her family that did not list a cause. she said in june she had pink granite cancer. i will be back at full strength soon, she told constituents. she was the author and lead sponsor of legislation that in 2021 established juneteenth commemorating the day when the last slaves in texas learned of their freedom as the first new federal holiday in 38 years. here she is speaking of the

house floor in advance of the passage of the legislation. [video clip] >> it has been a long journey. it has not been yesterday, the day before or last month or a few years before. one could argue it has been 12 years. so many people have been involved. my colleague in the senate, senator cornyn. senator markey. 25 years ago and others unnamed. organizations across the nation and some international. it has been a long journey. it has not been an easy journey. when we stand here today, we should be reminded of the fact that there were people who continued to experience the weft of a with -- whip for two more years even as abraham lincoln should -- stood in the shining

sun to unite the union and proclaim the slaves free in 1863. a few years ago, i had the privilege of being midnight in the national archives looking at that document. then it took two years for general granger to get to texas. in that two years, we realize that tragedy continued and brutality continued. even into the 20th century. today, i salute the macula's coming together today of the house leadership, the speaker cut leader hoyer, with clyburn, and others that brought this to the floor and then a debate, and then here we are today. a long journey, but here we are. i am grateful, as i said earlier, that racial divides are falling out of the sky and we

are crushing it to the earth for this day, for the juneteenth holiday. this was a bipartisan bill with over 166 sponsors and now we are delighted to note that the president will sign this bill. the people of texas and other places are informed in accordance with the proclamation from the executive all slaves are free. in the same year, the 13th of may was passed. this bill is about freedom. at gettysburg, that is what president lincoln said, that this nation under god should have a new birth of freedom. why can't we continue in this pathway as we push the george floyd justice in policing act and come together on the voting rights act and realize there's another path for america to take, that my freedom is your freedom and your freedom is my freedom?

slaves suffered continuously, even in the 20th century. yet we have a time today, miraculously, to be able to debate and vote on the floor of the house. divers persons can stand and join this. i want to offer to my colleagues every minder that this has been a long journey. but we stand here today free to vote for the juneteenth independence national day, a federal holiday for america. host: representative sheila jackson lee is dead at 74. let's get back to her calls. joe is in delaware on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i would like to speak to some previous callers. the incompetence of -- i do not

want to call them liberals. liberals are defined by the progressive movement that started calling themselves liberals, not the classic liberals, and president trump as president makes $400,000 -- president biden. that shows how self-serving biden is as president. if you increase -- host: you are fading in and out. can you make sure you're close to your phone? we are struggling to hear you. >> it is more financially sound to pay the accountant -- host: we are going to try to come back to you. maybe we can get your line more stable. let's go to david in michigan. caller: i want to thank you for everything you do. i want to thank c-span. i wanted to make a comment about

your previous guests. they presented an idea of double heaters. i felt that is not a good way to put that idea there is a well-known fallacy called. economy. host: -- called. economy. -- called false dichotomy. host: it was an article. caller: regardless, the use by posters of an inflammatory phrase would indicate people without point of view are just upset instead of worrying. i feel that false dichotomy is a better choice of words. the idea you're only presented two options when there are more

options -- there could be better candidates for both sides. i wanted to try to represent people that are a little >> more centrist, i suppose. host: do you feel you fall into that category? caller: i am not thrilled with either candidate, to say the least. host: next we will go to cornell in new jersey on our line for democrats. caller: first i want to speak to my republican friends. the fact of the matter is trump never got elected. you see with this last election how he tried to steal it, but when you lose 350 million votes, there had to be something that the electoral college could not do. to me, he stole the first one. the second one, we caught him so he could not take that one. for my democratic friends, we have made so many mistakes. the biggest was when hillary

ran. we should have ran biden then. we would never have had trump. now we do have trump and people keep complaining about biden being too old and putting too -- kamala in place of biden. if you are going to do that, fine. leave him vice president and then now pick the ticket up and it still seems like if something happens people would be comfortable with joe. they have a couple scenarios they can work on, but it is too late to just say -- it will be really a disaster now to put someone ahead of kamala. that would be my thoughts and i would like to see what people feel about that. host: next is bill in ohio. caller: i cannot believe anybody

that cannot see it is so obvious , the democratic party now. biden was a disaster from day one, a puppet regime. the border, all the stuff going on here and the assassination of trump. they actually took secret service agents off that detail to send them to a rally for jill biden. they put the b team over there. it is ridiculous. host: ok. let's go to charles in colorado. caller: how are you doing this morning? i was want to talk about biden and trump and all that stuff, but nobody has said anything about sheila jackson. she was a great person. maybe we should think about martin luther king and his views

on nonviolence. if we can come together as americans, maybe we can get rid of a lot of this hate we have in america. host: thank you for everyone who called in this segment for our open forum. after the break, we will be joined by harvard university professor stephanie ternullo to talk about her book, "how the heartland went red." we will be right back. ♪ >> friday night, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, providing a one-stop shop to discover what candidates across the country are saying to voters along with first-hand accounts from political reporters and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign

trail or download as a podcast on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill, getting you to where the policy is debated and decided. c-span, powered by cable. >> explore the republican and democrat conventions first-hand at c-span.org/convention or scan the code on the right. watch c-span's uninterrupted coverage from start to finish

during the republican and democratic national convention. get the convention schedule. watch video clips of every speaker. check out social media highlights and be for -- be sure to view past acceptance speeches. catch live convention coverage online at c-span.org/convention or scan the code on the right. on -- also on our free mobile video app. host: we are joined by stephanie ternullo, author of "how the heartland went red." she is also an assistant professor government at harvard university. your research and recent book

focuses on how -- states' political identity and behavior. what pronto you to study that? -- prompted you to study that? guest: i was interested in trying to better understand and explain white, working-class politics. as you know, the white working class is an important part of the electorate, partly because they are a big portion of the electorate but also because of their geographic distribution. i felt often when we talk about this group, which we do a lot, election season, we tend to talk as if they were a monolith. i had this intuition that there was a lot of heterogeneity there and we could better understand

where we have come from in american politics and where we are going. to do that in my book, i found these similar white, postindustrial cities in the midwest that had once been part of the to my credit coalition but now vote differently. one -- the democratic coalition but now vote differently. one turned to the right in 2016. another is still voting democratic. in the 18 months leading up to the presidential election, i spent months living in those communities and collected hundreds of hours of interviews with community leaders and residents to understand what was shaping their politics. i talked to folks with and without college degrees. what i found was place was helping explain why people were thinking about politics

differently and why in each community different kinds of people were thinking the same way. that conformed to another intuition, which was the narratives people tell about their lives are important for their politics. social scientists are bad at guessing with those will be. often we think people are voting the wrong way, not in their self interest. there is hubris in that approach. i hoped by spending time in those communities and listening to people i could better understand what other forces are shaping the narrative. local organizations that structure community life are important for helping us tell stories that make sense.

host: those towns he visited were in minnesota, indiana, and wisconsin. can you tell us about them and those community forces that shape their clinical direction -- political direction? guest: i talk about churches and unions. these organizations have been central to civic and political life across the industrial heartland. this was true in all three communities i studied. that has changed a lot. churches and unions are in decline in the u.s.. decline has been uneven across geography. i argue local contexts are important for understanding politics in the heartland because different communities have different organizational resources. they have different leaders. that matters.

to make that more concrete, take the example -- the community i studied in indiana. there are still active churches. they coordinate with each other and nonprofits and governments to address -- address social problems as they come up, particularly hunger and homelessness. residents in that community feel they do not need more intervention from the federal government. for them, the republican party make sense. in the wisconsin town i studied, it is still voting democratic. it still has politically engaged unions, which is rare in 21st century america. these unions are electing those who support organized labor and think of themselves as part of a

community that has been disadvantaged by big structural economic forces. they believe more federal government redistribution will help them. for them, the democratic party make sense. the community is an outlier because is voting democratic when other largely white postindustrial cities have turned to the right. i think that community tells us something about the power and per carotene -- precarity of the labor movement in shipping politics. its decline probably explains a good part of the reason why a lot of the industrial heartland has turned to the right. that was clear in the third and final community i studied in minnesota, where both unions and churches are still present but struggling to provide that role

of community leadership i saw in indiana and wisconsin, so folks there feel their community is dying and under threat of extinction. as republicans under president trump articulated this narrative of immigration and socialism and china as a threat to that sort of small town way of life that folks value, that narrative has resonated. host: you wrote the strength of labor activism correlates with support for the democratic party and that has them look asian's for democrat efforts -- has implications for democrat efforts to make inroads. guest: i think there is power to the organized labor movement.

it is precarious because of organized labor's decline. the power comes from this historically and politically contingent link between unions and the democratic party born during the new deal era. it is contingent. unions have not always been a progressive force in american politics. when they began, they were the domain of white men and often viewed women and immigrants and people of color as a threat. so i think that is not the most effective form of working-class political organization. if you think about the 99% to the 1%, that divides the 99% and it gets smaller and less powerful. more important for contemporary politics is if the labor

movement worked over represented the white working-class, i do not think it would have home in the democratic party. democrats have not always been a friend to organized labor. that began with fdr and his response to the great depression and they have failed to live up to their promise of supporting organized labor in the decades that followed. those links between democrats and organized labor have historically been strong but it has studied working-class mobilization and a version of the democratic party willing to support organized labor in that mobilization and support the democrats under president biden have made that a priority.

host: with former president trump picking as his vice presidential nominee j.d. vance. senator vance made a direct appeal for these so-called working-class voters during his acceptance speech at the republican national convention. [video clip] >> president trump's vision is so simple and powerful. we are done catering to wall street. we will commit to the working man. we are done importing foreign labor. we will fight for american citizens and their good jobs and wages. we are done buying from

companies that hate us. we will get it from pennsylvania and ohio and across the country. we are done sacrificing supply chains to global trade and we will stamp more and more products with that beautiful label made in the usa. host: was this messaging effective? guest: it was probably effective for certain people in certain places. i will take you back to that minnesota town i described where they experienced this widespread civic decline. they had this acute crisis. they lost their largest employer. their population declined.

that is devastating and terrifying and makes people feel like they're community is dying. i showed up at the ymca to swim one morning and older men ask what what are you doing here? i have never seen you here before. i said i'm studying this town. he said, you want to know what it is like to live in a dying town? that was omnipresent. this idea that there is a party out there listening to that feeling of threats and trying to articulate a narrative that appeals to that sort of fear i think is effective and in a lot of ways senator vance is good at conveying and dark it -- articulating that narrative because he lived it. the town he grew up in experienced that kind of postnuptial crisis so he can articulate that narrative the challenge with senator vance as a running mate is that was not

always the narrative he told about his own life. he has argument that something like the culture of poverty is going on, making people lazy and unambitious and that is one of the reasons for the challenges in those communities. he has switched to this other narrative about immigration and socialism and china and that seems to be more effective. it is not what he was always saying, so in a lot of ways he learned more than i learned during my research, which is narratives people tell about their own lives are what matters, so he changed to articulate this new narrative. in that way, he is an effective and savvy politician.

host: we want to take her questions about working-class voters. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's start with mark in las vegas on our line for democrats. caller: hello, professor ternullo. i have two questions. one is on demographics. in these small towns with a shrinking population, i imagine they skew older. i would like to know their claim that they do not want or need federal money, how many of them are on social security and medicare and how much of their roads are supported by the federal government and how much of the regulations are protecting their water.

how do we break through to them this idea of self-sufficient? the other is how much they are into the propaganda for right-wing radio like j.d. vance feeding them the story that really does not accord with reality? guest: two things here. one of the things i try to do in my research is take people where they are at. when you talk about the fact the federal government is supporting all of us in our lives everyday, whether through roads or social security or medicare, that is true. when elizabeth warren was candidate, she made this claim that schools and roads, we were

all benefiting from and giving back into this civic and federal government tied together, but when you meet people in their everyday lives, and a lot of scholars have made this argument , those forces often are not visible to them. what is visible our churches and nonprofits. often people are participating in that local civic society and policy in ways that make us feel they are doing everything possible to take care of each other and they can see that and not the bigger version of society and politics that is less visible to people. we have to take seriously that those things matter and it is not useful to point the blame and say how can we convince

people to think differently. every week they are going to church and volunteering sunday afternoons and wednesday evenings. that is a big part of their lives. we are not going to convince people to think differently about this lived experience. the second thing you asked was about propaganda on the right. when i will say is we are all susceptible regardless of partisanship to listening to the news, to our friends who already agree with us. that does have a polarizing effect on american politics because it makes us lean even further to the right or left. i do not think that is particularly just true folks in these communities or republicans in general but i think those

messages resonate most when they are already picking up on something that we believe and have experience in our own lives so that is why i think senator vance's message now can be effective because it resonates with people who are terrified by this massive loss they have seen around them. host: let's hear from jess in nebraska. caller: i grew up in a small town not far from middletown, ohio. in the 60's and early 70's, the town was booming. it did not take but two to three years and politicians sold where armco steel was and it turned

into a ghost town overnight. many people went from prosperous to nothing. that is where the trouble began. people got lazy. it turns that way because people do sometimes bad things. that is not what he was saying at all. that is just something you observe because you're probably on the other side. whatever. guest: i think that in "hillbilly elegy" senator vance does talk about the decline of armco central to what happened in milltown and other

communities to it. but he does also in several occasions talk about how he observed that other families were not teaching their kids to be ambitious, that they were teaching their kids to be lazy. he talks about welfare cheats he sees around him and people making bad decisions in their lives. and he credits his grandmother with giving him a kind of ambition and safety to behave to philly on his own. -- differently on his own. when communities have experienced loss on the level of the 1960's that you described, it can be hard to make good decisions.

this is where senator vance has arrived on his politics. we have to provide the kind of economy and community in which folks can make decisions -- good decisions and teach their kids working hard and going to school and building community is worthwhile. host: we received a question on x. i live in indiana. what city did you study? guest: i have -- i get this question all the time. i anonymized the communities in my book to prevent identities of the folks i spoke to for being revealed so they would feel comfortable talking to me. host: let's go to lives in new jersey on our line for democrats.

caller: i read vance's book. i have family ties dating back to right after the american revolution in part of appalachia and outsourcing of jobs and such in the last 40 years. when i have seen is the republican party captured the votes of these folks by a common nation of culture wars, claiming they were going to work for the middle class and outsourcing the high pay union jobs in this area and those that have a pension

and 401(k) and do not earn enough are desperate for jobs to contribute to 401(k). churches will call themselves a mensch alkyl -- evangelical, but they are not regular churches. this is more a label than reality. i think this got put on steroids with reaganomics and that is why we are seeing such disparity and it is leaking out from the areas that expanded in the 80's. host: i want to let stephanie respond to those ideas you brought up. guest: what you're talking about here is that a lot of the

challenges those communities are facing you're suggesting were caused by, the republican party, yet they seem to be voting for the republican party today. other folks might say those challenges were caused by democrats. you are also putting your finger on a key piece of the challenges those communities are facing which is the decline of organized labor. i have talked about unions as a political force but they are also an economic force. we have evidence there one of the best tools we have to combat the worst ills of capitalism, to mitigate economic inequality and provide things like you were talking about.

investing in unions is good policy regardless of politics there. that could help these communities. caller: gary p in texas. i have been listening to c-span a lot and this lady speaking about how the republicans take over the rural areas. i would like her to do a study on how big the government is, how they have their finger in every piece of the pie. this is not what the country was founded on. it was founded on a small national government and the states would do their own thing.

the guy talking about social security, the u.s. government formed national security. if they mismanage it -- i'm talking about wives who get benefits now. we need to put everything in a pot called welfare so we know exactly how much welfare we spend in every department of the government. let's talk about how big the government is. joe biden is a big government guy, big spender. let's let the states start doing stuff. guest: thanks for sharing that point of view. i heard a lot at that point of view when i was doing my research. i think you are putting your finger on something that is salient. we were a country founded on minimizing the control of the central government but we have

also made choices over time, particularly during the great depression to shift that power to the federal government. the federal government has grown . as a country, we have slowly come to make building on those choices over time something that can be debated and we can talk about the sources of power and spending but i think if you do that there will be policy trade-offs. if we allow local governments and state governments -- we might then worry that states with fewer resources swap able to provide the same -- will not

be able to provide the same estates with more resources. i live in one of the highest gdp states. if we shifted the onus of income tax at the state level away from the federal level and states where ministering these programs, i would worry people in my state will get great benefits but people in alabama would not. that is a way i would have. you are raising important questions we can and do figure out when we hold elections. host: we have a question via text from sharon in minnesota, who says, does the guest have plans to do more studies in the same states but different cities? i lived in rural minnesota for 40 years. i see towns dying but there politics are republican. guest: i do not have any further

plans to study the more postindustrial politics. i am working on a book now about suburban politics, kind of the same but the opposite. focus on suburbs rather than small, midwestern cities. i think you are right and a lot of these communities that have struggled so much but when the other questions talked about was that massive economic decline in those communities. a lot of those communities are voting republican. most of those communities are voting republican but that is like trying to understand which communities are not, the places that have bucked that trend, like the town in wisconsin.

we can figure out why some places vote democratic and most are voting republican. a lot of it has to do with organized labor helping keep that outliner community and the etc. -- the absence of organized labor enabling inroads for the republican party. host: let's hear from catherine. caller: i am 75. my dad was born and raised in kentucky, the same place that j.d. vance was born. my dad went to war in world war ii. after he got out of the war, that foolish man came to cincinnati and got a job because this was where the jobs were. he raised five children.

we are now successful. we are not stupid. our children have college educations. for you to say he is the only person who has ever done this -- you are so wrong. a lot of us came from very poor backgrounds but we have made it not because of the government. government did not buy me a college education. and i would say before you hang up i received a union pension every month, the stupid woman that had ancestors in jackson, kentucky. i get a pension. thank god because i can stay in the middle class. i do not believe anything you're saying because you have not talked to people in jackson, kentucky.

if you have got you would find out he is not the exception. what he has done -- host: i'm going to let stephanie respond because what you're saying does not seem to line up with what i think stephanie was mentioning earlier. guest: i'm so sorry if what you have taken from what i said is that i think vent is the exception. i have only the most respect for you and your family and people who get union pensions. i think more people should be getting union pensions. that is the argument i am making. i am making i think the arguing you are making, which is sometimes he makes it seem like he went through the exception to the rule with his family, was able to succeed in dire circumstances and what i'm try to say is that there are a lot

of challenges in these communities. a lot of people are making ends meet and more, like you are saying, but we should consider having politics that tries to support people in all sorts of communities, including places were they experienced losses. caller: i wanted to touch base. we do not hear about the military, which is interesting. they show vance having been in the military. i grew up in detroit. i grew up very poor, compared maybe not to him but i have seen a lot of drug addiction and people in the vietnam era who did not want to go to the draft

and wanted to go and run to canada and things of that nature. i have a problem with people who tote the american flag and talk about those things when i respect the military i believe this campaign has evolved to just the american people. as far as working class and has gotten off of this whole military aspect. host: we are running short on time but i want to let stephanie respond to the idea of the rural military life and salaries and how this contribute. >> i think the military is a big part of our government and our

society and politics. one thing you're getting at here is that people take up the mantle of patriotism for a bunch of different political causes and i agree that can be harmful and research shows when we are forced to think of ourselves as americans we tend to be less vitriolic tour the other party. -- it is important we remember patriotism is about us sharing in this project in this country and trying to make it better. that can involve criticism and vigorous policy disputes like the ones we have been hearing today, but it should also be under the umbrella of we are americans all in this together to make this country the best

version can be. host: thank you for your time this morning. and thank you to everyone who called in with questions and comments. that is all we have firm "washington journal" -- for "washington journal" today. have a good day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> c-span's washington journal a live forum involving you to discuss the latest issues from washington, d.c. and across the country. on day morning, a senior editor and election analyst on the

state of the 2020 four race, including key down ballot races and continued questions about president biden's tenancy and then joshua jacobs discusses this year 80th anniversary of the g.i. bill. c-span's "washington journal." join in the conversation live at 7:00 eastern monday morning on c-span or online at c-span.org. >> after the attempt at assassination of former prident donald trump, secret service director kimberl cheatle is set to testify on security lapses. watch the house oversight committee hearing on c-spa, c-span now, or online at c-span.org.

wednesday, israel's prime minister will adess a joint meeting of congress, his first meet -- visit to th u.s. since the hamas aack on october 7. many democratic members have annoced they plan to protest his speech. the israeli prime ministers expected to speak abouthe ongoing war against hamas. he will be the fir foreign leader ever to address congress in a joint meeting four times. watch live coverage of his remarks from the house chamber wednesday online and on our free video app. ♪

♪ host: good morning. it is sunday, july 20 1, 2020 four. former president donald trump returned to the campaign trail yesterday, joined by his new running mate as president biden continues to resist a growing number of calls from within the democratic party for him to drop out of the race. that is where we are going to begin this morning, with the question should president biden stay on the to my credit to get? our numbers for democrats are -- on the democratic ticket? our numbers for democrats are (202) 748-8000. for republicans, (202) 748-8001.

independents can reach is that (202) 748-8002 -- reach us at (202) 748-8002. if you would like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. if you would like to reach us on social media, that is facebook.com/cspan and on x at @cspanwj. we want to turn to the rally in grand rapids, michigan yesterday, where former president trump returns to the campaign trail for the first time since the attempted assassination on his life last week. here is a bit of that rally with him discussing what happened. [video clip] >> let me begin with a special thanks to americans nationwide, including all of you here today for your extraordinary outpouring of love and support in the wake of the horrific last saturday event.