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c-span.org/podcasts. welcome back. joining us from virginia is caitlin jewitt from -- a political science professor at virginia tech and the author of the book "the primary rules: parties, voters and presidential nominations." let us begin with the situation we are in the democratic party. president biden dropped his reelection bid, and it would appear that his vice president, kamala harris, is the presumptive nominee. are there federal rules in place by the party to deal with this situation? guest: there are. there are party rules in place, though the nomination process is harvard -- governed by parties and private organizations. there is no federal or state law or constitutional mandate that

dictates how this will unfold. it is up to the democratic party. host: what rules do they have in place? guest: the democratic national committee's rules committee helped hammer this out because this is an unusual and unprecedented situation. beginning in about an hour the delegates to the national convention will do an online and virtual vote for the nominee. and vice president harris is the only candidate to qualify for that ballot. as soon as those delegates finish casting their ballots she will move from being the presumptive nominee to the democratic party's nominee for president. host: these rules adopted by the party, they were done so by a vote of 157 to three. so there does not appear to be much pushback within the party. can you explain? guest: yes.

there is some discussion while the primaries were unsold -- unfolding should biden resign or not. then of course after the debate performance that did not go well for president biden, the discussion around that picked up, and we saw a lot of calls for president biden to step aside and let someone else run on the democratic ticket. and so, there was a lot of speculation will it be a contested convention, would be chaos will it be the democratic party fighting itself, but once president biden officially announced that he would not be running for a nomination we saw the party coalesce around vice president harris very quickly. and, essentially ensure that will not -- that they would not be a fight for who would be the nominee. host: what about the party opening up the nomination process initially saying that if you qualified you could submit

your qualifications to the party, but you have to do so and prove your legitimacy of a candidate by a certain day before today. so before they started the virtual roll call vote. if you wanted to challenge the vice president as the nominee, what did you have to do? guest: you had to have a petition which 300 delegates signed but no more than 50 could come from the same state. essentially you had to show that you had delicate support that was widespread and not just concentrated in one state, but one -- but no other candidate other than vice president harassment those qualifications. she got 99% of delegates signing her petition. host: that is the press release sent out by the dnc and the chair announcing yesterday that the vice president, 3900 23

delegates from across the country petition to put vice president harris on the ballot for the democratic nomination. and the vice presidency. the support of 99% of participating delegates. who were those that participated? guest: these are delegates that are selected either directly in the primary and caucus process or in state and county party conventions. they are generally party enthusiasts. they might buy -- they might be loyal biden supporters and campaign contributors. they are party activists in each state sent to the national convention to vote on the presidential nomination. host: what do you mean by pledge delegates? guest: pledge delegates are the delegates that, slightly less than 4000 this year, that are sent to represent the voices of the people and the results of the primaries and caucuses. and they pledge in good

conscious to support the candidates that they were sent to support. the vast majority is of these delegates were biden supporters because he had very little to no competition in the primaries. but that is distinct from what the democratic party calls automatic delegates which many people know as superdelegates. the superdelegates are automatic delegates -- or automatic delegates are party notables, the state party chair, democratic members of congress, democratic governors and former democratic presidents like bill clinton and barack obama. and they do not have to vote in accordance with the primaries and carcasses -- caucuses or the results. they are free to support any candidate that they would like. host: had there been a challenge to the vice president being nominee, what role would pledge delegates play in the first round of voting versus automatic

delegates? when and at what point would they play a role? guest: following the 2016 nomination the democratic party change the rules for the automatic delegates because they had concerns that the automatic delegates, about 750 elites could decide the nomination and the democratic party realized that people did not think it was fair and transparent so they change the rules. now the rule is that automatic delegates are only allowed to vote on the first ballot. if it is clear that they will not sway the outcome. if a candidate already essentially has the nomination locked up and the automatic delegates will not have an influential say. if it seems like it could be a contested convention and a candidate might not -- might not receive a majority the automatic delegates are not allowed to vote until the second ballot. host: today the virtual roll

call begins. who gets to vote? guest: because so many of the pledged delegates signed the petition for vice president harris to be on the ballot, the dnc said that automatic delegates will also be able to participate because there will be one ballot and one candidate. host: how will this virtual roll call work? guest: it begins at 9:00 a.m. eastern time and it will finish monday at 6:00. delicate will -- delegates will be voting virtually. they have put out many security features to make sure that it is a secure nomination and election. they will vote virtually. they need to do it sometime between this morning and monday evening and, as of monday evening we should officially have a democratic nominee. host: they'd had one in 2020 during the pandemic. we are not in a pandemic.

why did the party decided they would continue with this method of voting? guest: the democratic national convention is scheduled to begin on august 19 and there is some concern over ballot certification that some states, mainly ohio, that the states need to know which candidates will be on the ballot for august 19th. and they notified the democrats in may that there was an issue here. the ohio legislature passed a bill to change that deadline to september 1, so it seems like they would have been fine to proceed with just nominating at the convention rather than doing it virtually, but ohio has a republican secretary of state who has assured the democrats it would be fine but the party is being cautious and doing the virtual roll call to nominate early enough before the initial

deadline to make sure that there are no legal challenges and that the democratic candidate is on the ballot in all 50 states. host: this virtual roll call will take place over the coming days without a running mate for the vice president. how is that possible that they can vote without knowing who else is on the ticket? mandy: well at the national -- guest: at the national conventions there is always a separate vote for the president and vice president. that does not change the situation. at all. it has always been that the delegates nominate the president without having nominated the vice president as well. we do expect, however that the vice president will be announced before august 7 to ensure that it is all announced before ohio's original ballot certification deadline. host: and so there will not be a

rollcall vote, a separate one for the vice presidential candidate on the democratic ticket? guest: it appears this year that it will not happen that way. there will be ceremonial and celebratory, that is the language that the party is using, votes on the nominee, the presidential and vice presidential nominee at the convention. but the convention chair will, once harris makes her selection will essentially say that is the vice presidential candidate this time around and we will see the ceremonial votes in a few weeks. host: we will see a representative from each state stand up on the floor the convention and, as you said, in a symbolic way put forth the delegates in nomination for the vice president. will this impact the convention? will it look different? guest: it should not look

different to most people, those watching on television. since 1972, the convention has been less about selecting the nominee and more about sort of coming together around the nominee. and showing party unity and trying to pitch the party's platform. it has not been a place where these decisions are ahsed -- hashed out in modern times. host: let's get to questions. roland, independent. caller: i am listening and it seems like the democratic convention and all of this other stuff is a big mess. it just shows that the common man is not voting for these leaders, all of these elite

delegates that you mention. it is just crazy. let me finish. and the way they treated joe biden, and i am not a supporter of him at all, but his issue was not his physical issue, it was mental. look at franklin d roosevelt. he was in a wheelchair and served for four years. they should've put joe biden in a wheelchair or with a cane to continue serving, but he had other problems. he had serious mental problems. host: he said it is a mass and there are yearly delegates voting -- elite delegates voting in the nomination process. can you address that? guest: it feels like a return to pre-1972 when it was delegates and party leaders choosing the nominees at the national convention. that in many ways had to happen

by the nature of when president biden said he would not seek reelection. because there was no way for primaries and caucuses and the states to hold elections between the beginning of july and essentially the beginning of august when they needed a nominee. and so the democratic party i think recognizes this and has been saying we are going to do this in a transparent and orderly fashion and proceed in the best way that we can wreck rising that there was no -- recognizing that there was no opportunity to hold primaries and allow citizens to voice a preference. host: linda in connecticut. democratic caller. caller: good morning. i am glad i came behind the last caller because i am a person who has worked on local, state, and federal campaigns.

i wanted to say for every person that goes to a state convention or federal convention for the democratic party, there are dozens and dozens of workers who sit in the campaign offices and stuff envelopes and do all kinds of small bookkeeping types jobs and they volunteer on a daily basis. those people represent all of the people who work on the campaign, who were active go outside. it is a reflection of the party and its workers as a whole. host: let's take that comment. guest: absolutely. the parties are built on grassroots. there are so many volunteers and local activists that are essentially the backbone of these campaigns. and the national conventions are a coleman nation that draw just a few of the people together to represent the party.

i know that over the years the parties have increased the amount of delegates but they are also limit -- often limited by the number of delegates that they can have by just a culture -- logistical challenges of the city that host them. host: virginia. independent. caller: how many american cities -- citizens voted for kamala. that would be zero. stole my vote for biden. so you basically stole america. the elites do not get to choose. you do not get to pick the president who you want to run. the american voters are supposed to vote. you have stolen the whole democratic vote. i do not understand what just

happened. guest: the democratic party has procedures in place and party rules that govern what happens if a candidate is unable to continue running once they are officially the nominee. host: go ahead. guest: they have rules and procedures. host: caitlin jewitt is the author of a book "the primary rules: parties, voters and presidential nominations." can you explain the difference between how it works, the delegates work for the democratic party which you already talked about versus the republican party. they just wrapped up their convention.

guest: the differences between the parties because again these processes are governed by the parties which are private organizations and have their own rules. the republican delegates are bound to vote for the candidate that they were sent to the convention to represent where as the democrats just need to vote in good conscience. it is actually easier for the democratic delegates to shift their preference of vote at the convention or the virtual rollcall as we would see that it would be for the republicans. of course we do not know how it would unfold for the republicans but -- because we have never seen this. it is possible that the rules will be changed or altered if the republican party was in a situation like this. host: louisville. democratic caller. caller: good morning professor, i worked in a university too, so i always address people who have

a higher degree by professor. i was curious, how do delegates get picked. i have never really thought about it since the conversation came up, are they elected, how are they picked. and will there be a record at the rollcall when it is done so we can view the vote. i live in kentucky which is a very red state. and that always just piques my interest and i thought you could answer my question. thank you. guest: delegates are selected because of american politics and nothing can be simple and it depends on the state. it is through the local party apparatus. if you are interested in being a delicate -- delegate that is something to check in with your local party. often they are activists and in some states they are directly elected in the primaries and in other states they are chosen at

state convention or district convention and then they move up through the steps of conventions at the state level before being sent to the national convention. host: are you talking about pledged delegates or unpledged. guest: unpledged. the automatic delegates are superdelegates and they are the elected officials who know that they will be going to the convention. host: so they are automatic that is why they are called automatic delegates? guest: and the democratic party has criteria for those, and elected democratic member of congress, democratic governor, state party chair and and they have a category for former notables who are former democratic presidents or vice president. host: brian in las vegas. democratic caller. caller: hello. my question is with the divide in the country becoming wider

and with the wealth gap becoming wider, why would the democratic party not planned for something like this? right now it looks like the aristocrat -- aristocratic class of the democratic party is picking who they want to be the next president. guest: i think the democratic party position and the pushback from the democratic party would be that these delegates are local party activists. that they make an effort to have a diverse set of delegates representing different social economical classes and they make sure that they have gender balance in these delegates as well. and so it is certainly a select group of people. but the democratic party would disagree that it is an aristocratic class of people. there are certainly ordinary people who serve as delegates. host: explain the history little

bit more of the democratic party and why they change the process after 1972 to address concerns like you just heard. guest: in many ways, 2024 is feeling reminiscent of 1968 when president lyndon johnson competed in the new hampshire primary seeking renomination and he won the new hampshire primary but not as much as expected. so at that point, this was in march of 1968, he announced that he would not seek renomination and there were other candidates in the democratic race competing in the primaries. but at the convention that summer, which happened to be in chicago where the democrats will meet in august this year, the delegates selected vice president hubert humphrey as the nominee even though he had not participated in a single primary. that was the democratic

delegates, and the party elite deciding who would be the nominee and ignoring what happened in the primaries and caucuses. and in chicago in 1968 there were sizable protests going on outside the convention hall both over the process but over the vietnam war and the democratic party policy on the vietnam war. at that national convention because they saw the fissure erupting and was concerned they created what was known as the mcgovern-fraser commission. it did several things to reform the primary process. the main thing it did was that it tightened the link between the votes of the primaries and caucuses and the delegates. so the delegates were now pledged to represent what happened in the primaries and caucuses. and so delegates could not just

go to the convention and vote for who they wanted. they were sent to reflect to the voters in their state wanted and that was the democratic party saying that we want to hear from the people. we want timely and meaningful participation for voters. that is seen as the beginning of the modern era of presidential nominations. host: and today's election and this process that we are in right now in 2024. what do you make of some republican saying there could be legal challenges to what the democratic party is doing? guest: i understand that people are outraged or upset or confused about this happening because it is not the typical process and not the way it typically unfolds. the supreme court has affirmed on numerous occasions that the nominating processes of the

priority -- of the party is a private party process. and from my understanding there is no legal basis to challenge this process. people can be upset about it, but the democratic party only had a presumptive nominee in joe biden, they did not have a nominee because the vote had not happened yet. host: caitlin jewitt is the author of the book "the primary rules: the parties, voters >> c-span's washington journal. our live forum to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy. from washington to across the country. coming up friday morning, we will talk about the rising tensions in the middle east after israeli strikes on hezbollah in beirut and hamas in

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retain the white house. the democratic national convention, live monday august 19 on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. don't miss a. moment visit our website -- miss a moment. visit our website. you can catch up on past conventions anytime on demand at c-span.org/campaign or by scanning the code. wall street journal reporter evan gershkovich and former u.s. marine paul whelan are now free after a u.s.-russia prisoner exchange involving cooperation from germany, poland, slovenia, norway and belarus. a total of 24 prisoners were released as part of the agreement, making it the largest prisoner exchange since the cold war era. mr. gershkovich and mr. whelan were both convicted of espionage based on accusations they and the u.s. government have denied.