guest: i will say this. to the daughter of george floyd, who has now as a young person has been told she has to defend her father's right to live. that she has to defend her father against baseless accusations. i would ask those who claim to believe in humidity and betterment of our country whether we think that is appropriate. so we are entitled to our opinions. we are not entitled to different versions of the truth. and the ways we can do that is engaging in conversation but also understanding that where we are today is quite different from where we have been in the past. what would we do now to move 2/3 together. host: khalilah brown-dean is executive director of the wesleyan university allbritton study of public life and host of the podcast disr

>> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by rich lowry, the editor of a national journal and the national review.com. it is national review. let's start with your reaction to tim walz being selected as kamala harris's running mate. guest: i was shocked that it wasn't josh shapiro who was popular in pennsylvania according to the latest polls. this is an absolute must when battleground and it is hard to see how trump or harris wins it without it and how they put together the electoral map. i don't think you would have delivered pennsylvania to her but 10,000 votes could be decisive in pennsylvania and the

entire election. part of the reasoning seems to be being trouble to be second fiddle but she went with him and you need to feel comfortable with your running mate and apparently she felt more comfortable with him. a lot of of energy. clearly comfortable talking to a crowd and seems to be human and has a of humor. that is the upside for them. i don't see how choosing someone from minnesota will help in michigan and pennsylvania. but ideologically it makes no sense pit she has gone out of her way to diss about nearly everything she said in 2019 and 2020 when she was running for president and after the killing

of george floyd and he still believes it now. it is a left wing picked and the most left wing ticket you have probably had in american history and the only thing comparable will be roosevelt and wallace but it was entirely a different democratic party then. there is a reason republicans felt relieved as much for much of yesterday which is one of the few times they have had anything good to feel about. they feel they dodged the shapiro bullet. host: the huffington post has a headline, donald trump claims tim walls will unleash hell on earth and he posted the words

thank you. what strategy do you see the trump campaign and playing now? guest: they will portray the ticket as dangerously liberal, the phrase they used in an addict last week on the border and more generally. it is a phrase someone in the 1990's but it is basically the right approach. attack them for being way out of the mainstream and to progressive and when harris disavows it, you attack her for being phony. the advantage she has come at the rally it felt as though she had the enthusiasm but she won no votes in a primary or caucus but she had that kind of enthusiasm because it is such a relief that biden is off of the ticket but she did not have the

scrutiny that comes with going to the small town hall meetings. where you can't hide from voters and there would've been scrutiny from her opponents and she would've had to do interviews and there would have been a hostile litigation of every of her positions and any change of position would've been a big deal and she escaped it all and just went at the end where they are hiding her from the media and keeping her on teleprompter and hoping it works and is so far it has at least in bringing the party back home which is the reason this race is at least tight end probably will be had by the end of the convention. host: if you like to speak to rich lowry, republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202)

748-8002. you mentioned that kamala harris has not done interviews in the past two weeks but what would it be that once she starts doing them, what is your one question for her guest: -- for her? guest: what happened and why did you change on the eight things you said in 2018. were you fooling us then and you had to sound like bernie sanders or are you fooling us now. usually in a presidential race late may change on one thing but she changed on eight things and we have not heard words and it has often been statements from staffers to the press. it has not been discussed because she changed so many things at once. that is what i would hone in on.

host: you have an article in the national review called "the perils of politics as a trolling." can you expend what you mean and what your point was in the article? guest: it has to do with events. the cat lady, and the negative things he said about people who don't have kids really broke through and has hurt the ticket for his image and he really had a family value that wasn't unpopular but sold in an obnoxious way because in that senate primary he ran in ohio trolling and being controversial and offensive and instead of just saying i think families are important and kids are

transformative and many more rather than less, he emphasized the other side of the coin and was negative about kids who don't have kids and that style of politics worked for him in that context but we are in an entirely different context now. i do and he had his own event in philadelphia and people talking about the struggles during the biden years and he gave remarks and took questions from the press and said asked me anything and he did it very well. here's talented and glib but those marks have come back to bite him at least from the initial going. host: would your recommendation to he and former president trump to stop the trolling and negativity and focus on the issues? guest: sometimes there is a

place for negativity and there is nothing wrong with being harsh about people. in a big democracy would have arguments over important things. i am not saying that but obviously the issues are trump big advantage. he doesn't score well with the temperament but on who is going to help you financially and the cbs poll that had a raise tied over the weekend, trump has an almost two to one advantage over harris on that issue. 25% make -- think she will make them better off in 45 believe trump will make them better. the border he has a huge lead as well. these are the two main vulnerabilities of the biden record. this is another aspect of the case he should be making against her. obviously an effort by the democrats to make this a future

versus the past or new versus old race. and he needs to say, she is not so new and has been part of the administration that most think it is failed. she represents the past because she wants to be seen on this road that has not worked so far. that is not the case he has been making. his rallies, the signature event, you can have a rally were you give an hour and 15 minute speech and an hour and it 10 minutes of it can be on message but five minutes not and that is what everyone will focus on is that is what happened at atlanta a couple of nights ago. it is not like he spent the whole night attacking governor brian kemp and his wife but he spent a little time and it is all anyone was talking about. host: i want to show you a harris campaign ad about the

border and get your reaction to it. [video clip] >> kamala harris supports investing in new technology to block fentanyl from entering the country. donald trump block funding for technology to block it. kamala harris supports money to stop human trackers. donald trump stopped money to track them. kamala harris got them sentenced to prison and trump is trying to avoid being sentenced to prison. there are two choices in the election come one who will fix our broken immigration system and the one who is trying to stop her. host: your reaction to that? guest: i think that ad is

sociopathic in its dishonesty and it is gas lighting. donald trump by the end of his administration had the migrant crisis going and it drove him crazy and he had creative and effective policies to stop the flow over the border and biden inherited these things and everyone who knew anything said leave this in place. you have a disaster if you don't and he tore it all up because donald trump had done it. the results have been predictable and catastrophic and felt around the country. every big city in america now is a border city and has had resources strained by the cost of housing and other things dealing with this migration wave and kamala harris has never said it was a bad idea and we should be tougher. she has blessed all of it and was in fact with biden on all of this stuff in 2019 and had a responsibility for part of this

crisis. she supposedly will deal with the flow from central america by promoting development in central america which might meet a plan for 30 years from now but is not a planet now could you just have to stop them from getting in and send them back home and the message will be heard, don't come at all and it will be a waste of your time and resources to take this dangers journey. that is not what they have done and this is all about my part since border bill it would have a blessed some element of the illegal flow, 2000 illegals a day coming across before anything would be triggered and that is the reason why border hawks opposed it. to make this out as she is the one who is tough on the board and wants to shut down the border and donald trump is happy for the border to be out of control is completely false. host: john is up, a republican

in massachusetts. caller: i wanted to talk about busing. harris was in that yellow bus. i was a white person on side that bus being sprayed by a mace and it was not the police. it destroyed my education. at 17 years old we had no education and missed half of the year because of the riots. we have a solution. we should have started with kindergartners. the kids are spoiled by the parents as being racist. i almost was killed over in korea. host: what year was this when you're talking about the busing when you were 17? caller: i was 17 and it was 1974

and i was not best as a senior. they bust blacks through our neighborhood and the riots broke out and they outnumbered us 321 and they were 20 years old. i just wanted to say the white person's side. we have solutions and it should have been started in kindergarten host: -- kindergarten. host: comment? guest: there is a bipartisan consensus that forced busing is a mistake in no education policy continues to be of eight and should be an issue in this campaign where donald trump and j.d. vance support school of choice which is giving kids and parents the choice to get out of failed schools. there is no coercion into it it is just giving them the ability

to escape failed schools and cities around the school have seen this implemented and it has been a great success and very popular among parents and kids. it won't be a major issue but it will be a matter of debate and it should be. caller: stephanie, democrat in brooklyn, new york. caller: good morning -- host: stephanie, democrat in brooklyn, new york. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: mr. lowery, why are all of you in men so mean and evil. why don't you believe in anything good for people? if you are coming out your character as being an evil man. we know you are going far to the

right. you all are far too the right. no rights for anybody, children, blacks. you don't even want people to get along with one another. he divided the country and are causing trouble and say that nobody cares about the people at the border. you are the one who are starting that because you needed something to run on. republicans do not know how to govern. you don't do anything for the people. the 118th congress is not done anything for the people. all they are doing is breaking down things instead of building up. you know what i am talking about because you are laughing. host: let's get a response. guest: a sweeping indictment. this is a major factor in trump's favor, there is now

nostalgia about his record as president, at least the first three years. people are blackening 2020 is epidemic here he wasn't responsible for. things were better. if you look at inflation which has eroded people real wages and benefiting among democratic commentators. why don't realize the economy is so great and gdp is up, but the numbers generally have been good but people feel as though their paycheck doesn't go as far and it affects their life's and all sorts of ways. you had the trump retrospective rating as being over 50% and it was rarely at that high when he was president and because in comparison to what we had last three and half years it looks good in retrospect. caller: peter, new york, republican. caller: -- host: pier, your,

republican. -- peter, new york, republican. caller: i would like you to address things that i have been hearing on c-span that i think are not true. i know you are a fan of president trump and i understand your criticisms about the comments in -- about governor cap and he needs him to -- governor kemp and he needs him to be on his side. there are two things, president biden keeps talking about charlottesville. it has already been proven that what president trump said in charlottesville, he condemned the skinheads and the people on the radical right and he said there are good people on both

sides are there because they didn't want to see the statue of robert e lee taken down and president biden keeps saying that he was venerating people on the far right. and what happened in georgia, he called mr. roethlisberger and said see if you can find 11 votes. he didn't say create them, help me out and see if you could find them. and also regarding vice president pence, the vice president did have the option under the 1887 act to send the delegates back to georgia because president trump wanted cap to call the state legislature back because the court changed the rules and did not have the right to do that.

the reasons of the lawsuits never went forward because the court said they had no standing. he never looked at the evidence. there is a misconception on particularly washington journal. you are a fair guy. host: go ahead, rich. guest: i appreciate the caller's perception. charlottesville thing is a hideous light and trump's comments have been distorted. the call, i didn't like it and i think it was outrageous and the caller is right that trump seemed to believe there was a pool of 140,000 illegal votes and was telling him you don't need to find all of them, just find enough to demonstrate the

margin of victory. that is all we need. when it comes to pence's role, the vice president, on that day, a ceremonial role. he can't mess around in the george electric plug clean been litigated and has gluten look that over again. it's just appalling conduct after the 2020 election. he was leading in no national polls. one out of 100 holes. he had house candidates who ran four point ahead of him. it was not because the democrats were just stealing the election from donald trump and not bothering to steal it from other

republicans. if you are going to go to the length of committing crimes to stop trump from being elected you would think he would also do it to me cap republican candidates. they were told in suburban areas that i would work for you but i don't like that i am not going for him. i think it was appalling but i agree about that call. host: and also about mr. trump's comments on charlottesville. politico has published a full text of the trump comments on white supremacists all left in charlottesville and you can review it there and see everything he said. leah centreville, virginia, independent line. caller: i would like to say i am so delighted that harris and wa lz are together. i come from a small town who had

300 people who lived in kentucky where vance comes from. you better watch out for vance because he is very ambitious. as far as i remember, towns along the ridge, they don't even know he is. trump has a wild horse following him. and i wanted to say i am so proud of paris picking the man she did because i think he is honest and deals the truth and speaks the language of the lot of us who are there. i am 90 years old and have lived a long time and have seen a lot in my lifetime. i think this gentleman is up there better go back and review his findings because he is not

telling a lot of the truth. host: what do you think? guest: j.d. vance is ambitious. you really make it on a vice presidential ticket. this is part of the charging of josh shapiro as well. the harshest element of the speech yesterday was all directed at j.d. vance. this will be very distinct debate. they are capable guys and good talkers and have completely opposite theories of the case. i should note that in the plane tell her it said that tim walz city don't play around with this complete myth that has been created online about vance. we have heard from democrats how terrible misinformation is an we

need to police the social media and government should be telling social media at what to do, then don't on social media just to get a cheap laugh. host: what did you think of the pick of former president trump's of senator vance? were you in favor of that? were you rooting for someone else? guest: i was optical and runs, pretend it is a close case and pick someone who can help you the most. i would have picked nikki haley and that was not going to happen and she probably would have helped him more than anyone that was not an option. i think someone like glenn youngkin with suburban appeal and what is becoming swing state

when he was at his lowest, that is off of the table. instead he picked jd on the theory that he is a rustbelt guy and won in ohio and therefore he would have appeal in the other rustbelt states. winning over any working-class voters in those places who are already with donald trump. it was kind the pick and how are we going to cement our legacy for years from now and that was the key to forehead. have no idea what things are going to look like four years from now. we don't know what it is going to look like three months from now. the idea that this would make j.d. vance the nominee in 2028 and would carry on in trump's agassi. it could but about winning now

in the vulnerability, one of which we already discussed is in a record in an obnoxious way i many things. the other side of the claim, completely loyal and trump has a good relationship with him and trust him and that is very important and he is a bright and talented guy. he has succeeded everything he has done in life and if a good spokesman for the campaign as i was mentioning. i was skeptical of the pick and i think we have seen him of the downsides but there are upsides. host: frederick maryland, democrat. caller: good morning. what i wanted to say is i minored in political science and i guess what scares me the most

as an american is the direction our government is going in. i don't have a site and i don't hate guns. i generally will be in favor -- i don't hate republicans. i generally will be in favor of a government that works for the american people. i don't understand why there is so much of a rhetoric to divide the two parties and especially amongst the people who are otherwise not very educated. what worries me most is the internet these days is like books during the renaissance. they are getting all of this information and a lot of it is misleading. it causes revolt and destruction and causes great nations to fail. it is most like republicans the democratic -- the catholic

church and at the end of the day we all have the same goals we want but now you have these belief systems and ideologies that are distracting people from getting down to the real problem and then resolving them. i guess what i wanted to ask you is, do you feel worried at the direction the country is going in because the internet and do the republicans and democrats, having hands to let bygones be bygones and work together before something terrible happens because the attempted assassination of trump shows there is frustration going on and also ignorance that has wound up. host: ok, we will get a response. guest: there is a lot there.

i would make two points, with regard to the internet, it is a boon to the daily lives and consumption of information but it has a lot of content misleading people more than they have ever been misled before i would not compare to the books in the middle ages but more to pamphlets with the advent of the french revolution and a big element was the pamphlets that smeared marie antoinette and that kind of the precursor to the bad side of the information revolution. there are upsides to it. if you are a conscientious news consumer, you can get more smart well informed content more quickly than ever before and it is a mixed bag. i think we are very divided and it is important to remember it has always been that.

the only exception we take is the norm was the post-world war ii era where there was relative consensus in american life. there was only three to be stations and information sources were limited which also played into consensus. that war down and went away relatively quickly. by the late 60's and early 70's we were more divided than we are now. there was violence in almost daily bombings and thank god they worked killing people. you had terrorist groups going back to the start of the republic. jefferson u.s. elected famously we are not in sort democrats, we are all going to get together and then try to destroy the federalist and they felt the same thing of him.

this is just symptomatic of a democratic republic that has robust and free debate. there will always be divisions and harsh things said and what you trust in is our governing institutions abiding and being able to withstand this and the fact that they are meant to create the space for this and eventually better solutions emerging here that has been true throughout most of history and i trust it will be again. host: steve, hanover, maryland, republican. caller: it is an honor. i always enjoy talking to a brilliant young man. i have a comments on the choice of a vice president for the democrats. what i found is governor newsom and cooper weren't even

considered in the final four to the media. this tells me that the progressives are scared, essentially in a don't have confidence in harris. they are rolling the dice bringing a progressive and keeping governor newsom and cooper fresh for 2028 area in regards to progress -- 2028. in regards to progressivism, we sought to members of the squad were defeated in their primaries. and also regarding what you said earlier, the pendulum keeps swinging in america. we have had for a single term residents in the last 50 years, carter, bush senior, trump, and biden we can consider that

harris causing the republicans a threat to democracy and harris gets in without a single vote. we know this. she was elected by the machines. host: go ahead, rich. guest: i don't think they are thinking that far ahead that are keeping the talented governors fresh for 2028. i think they really want to win and there is a 50% chance or little less that they will actually win. you don't have to save anyone you could potentially have a vice president and the hairs operation and harris are self has convinced themselves that walz was the choice. i would've gone with shapiro. it seems the criticisms of him for being a pro israel jew has some effect.

that was a big element of the public face that was made against him. that is really shameful and disgusting. but i don't think the campaign trusts her or they would have her doing unscripted events more. they are obviously afraid of that. they want are all scripted and on teleprompter but so far it is working. host: have a textrom west palm beach, florida. sh, goodorning eric it makes me sad as an immigrant who i have never seen such anger from the republican party. if you go into the hospitals, nursing homes, it is all immigrants and how can one show eight care for them and put food on their table? what do you think of that? guest: i just reject the premise. i don't think anyone or very few hate democrats. they are all around us and part of our communities. we are married to a part of our

families. what has happened at the border should meet people angry. it is infuriating because it is a totally avoidable crisis, crisis created deliberately and if you read the polling, even people who are immigrants or the children of immigrants reject this. it is very hard to come in to the united states the right way. it takes a lot of effort, filling out forms and abiding by various rules. the people have done that are maddened that people can come from all over the world now and simply walk over the southern border and surrender to immigration authorities with no fear of being sent back to where they came from but most will be processed and just come into the country and will never leave. no matter how many proceedings they show up for, no one shows up for the deportation because you would be an idiot because we

will not track you down and deport you. it is a free ticket into the united states. it is not a function of hostility to immigrants as such or as people but it is justified fury at our laws being defied in such a flagrant way. host: raymond is in north carolina, independent line. caller: i just wanted to the point that was just made about republicans being mean and there was an earlier caller. i have to say that the republicans that i know, and i know a lot of them, are the kindest, gentlest helpful people . i can't even exaggerate. when i needed help 30 years ago, there were a number of christians who happened to be republicans who helped me in tremendous ways. i feel like they are getting

misrepresented in so many ways by these opinions that are not backed up with facts. . can i can show you mean democrats like maxine waters telling people to actually harm people who are trumpers way back nessel them while they are eating and things like that. there burnings and riots by the democratic favored people, and the republicans have rallies and clean up after themselves. they are organized. the tea party was organized and clean way back. it is frustrating to hear so many misconceptions. host: lowry, go ahead. guest: i endorse all that. it is possible to get a

misperception of what america is from our political debates. in your communities and real life you encounter nice, helpful people all the time who are republicans, democrats, and independents. and then you have the poisonous cross on top of it which is our political debate. political debate should be a full throated and harsh at times and that is our history and our nature as a country but it is not as though everyone in america has daggers drawn and half of us are nice and half of us are mean and that is just not true. host: one last question from keith, an independent voter who s to support the republican party. will the trump pxcepthe election if he loses again? why it appear the republartys taking us o a ry divisive time in our country. ok a vance's comments on eks of the whole text how we

have. there are plenty of comments out that reflect this current trend. what do you think of that? guest: we discussed the j.d. vance comments and really wants to help families. he shouldn't have spoken of it in that way. i don't think loses find some way to say it was unfair. i don't think has ever accepted the results. that will be bad and people to go through. i don't think democrats will not particularly accept it if trump wins either. they didn't really accept it in 2016. they came up with the fantastic there that you somehow disorganized small campaign and cooperated with a major or in and sensitive intelligence and it was crazy area it was pursuit

and people on tv and the media told us this had happened and trump was going to get caught in the walls were closing and and at the very least we will see some version of that again and it will be better absent real fraud and real cooperation with a foreign power which is something out of a tom clancy novel and not something that happens in real life. now hears or donald, one of them will win it. if something crazy happens, we couldn't accept the results of her cycle accept the results.

>> hello, everyone. my name is adam todd. i'm a recent graduate of the troy jesuit high school. and i'm excited to attend wayne state university in the fall.