schedule updates and watch over full coverage of the 2024 republican national convention. you can also catch up on past conventions anytime on demand at c-span.org/campaign or by scanning the code. ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government, taking you to where the policy is debated and decided, all with support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. continues. host: welcome back. we are live with views of chicago where the democratic national convention will be kicking up tomorrow. we are joined by luke nichter,

history professor as well as the author of the book "the year that broke politics: collusion and chaos in the presidential election of 1968." welcome to the program. guest: good morning. great to be here. host: it looks like the ipad started playing. thank you for joining us. c-span would like to thank them for allowing us to set up where we can get nice views of chicago . i want you to talk first about your book, the year that broke politics. what did you focus on in a year known to be so iconic? guest: of course, prior to me, a lot of people have written about this seismic year of revolution in the united states and around the world. when you start out working on a

book like this, you think, what can i possibly write about the others before me have not written? i think what inspired me was the 50th anniversary came and went in 2018 and there was not really any moment of national reflection. meanwhile, i saw in archives like the l.b.j. library in austin that a lot of new records had been opened. personal papers like billy graham's diary. i thought, history does need to be rewritten about once every generation because the next generation needs to understand it on their own terms. i thought with someone like me born after this, i had a lot to learn. a lot of the names and events were not intrinsic to me as i grew up. but i felt it was time to revisit this, especially for younger americans. host: for folks who may not be aware and just hear references to 1968 being violent or chaotic, what were some of the events that preceded the

democratic national convention in chicago in 1968 that made that moment so contentious? guest: 1968 has almost become shorthand for revolution. other revolution years like 1776 or 1789 or 1848. if americans know anything, it is usually their own history. a lot of these trends were going on around the world in 1968 had at the time the nation's longest war in vietnam, the chinese revolution, apartheid in south africa, a russian invasion of czechoslovakia in 1968, so a lot of things were going on. the tet offensive. it looked like vietnam was getting worse at a time when americans at home or being told it was going better. you had the seizure of the pueblo crew and the dramatic political moments the rest of the year. it seems in 1968, almost every

month had some surprise, some shock that just a month before, we could have never predicted. host: sounds a little like this summer. guest: it does. i always say history does not predict the future. sometimes, it can illuminate possible paths forward. politics is a bit like a magic show. the magic continues as long as no one figures out how the trick works. what interests me is figuring out how it works behind the scenes which is a place most of us as americans do not have access to. host: in 1968, president johnson opted to bow out of the race in march after the new hampshire primary. this year, biden decided to opt out in july after the nominating process was too much done.

what are some of the similarities and differences in terms of how this will play out at the convention? guest: one of the big differences is i had been writing earlier this year on the way to new hampshire that from an historical standpoint march was the month to march. two presidents have withdrawn in surprise announcements since world war ii. that was harry truman in 1952, march 29, and lyndon johnson in 1960 march 31. from an historical standpoint, march was the month to watch. it was early enough the democrats could still gather, they can organize before the convention. if you and i were to have this conversation just over a month ago, i would have said two of the biggest differences between 1968 and 2024 was this year the lack of political violence and the fact president biden did not appear to want to do what president johnson did in 1968,

withdraw, and now two of those biggest differences have been erased. host: what are the biggest differences between the protests then and now? guest: it is fascinating. this is one of those issuesi'm sure we ever completely understand because protesters by definition do not leave a lot of records. if you are behind the barricades of a protest or cause, you are not reporting your movements and thoughts the way government officials might be at the time that you are opposed to in the protest. i would say the issues are different. in 1968, it was the vietnam war and the draft that was not jus a leading foreign policy issue

but also aeading domestic policy issue because itnited republicandemocrats in opposition to it. it united young americans across social and economic class in the opposition to serve against thei will in southeast asia. this year, you have similarities with another unpopular war, really more than one you want to count israel-gaza and russia-ukraine. as i walked in grant park this morning, it was still quiet. there is a big police presence. we are waiting to see what groups show up and what their causes are. host: one of the issues recently is the topic of political violence with the assassination attempt on former president trump and political violence leading up to the 1968 convention. . how would you compare violence

then and now? guest: i do not want to make light of the attempted assassination on former president trump. thankfully, it was not worse than it was. 1968, early ri you have first the assassination of martin luther king jr. which shook the rights community. this was the civil rights era. and then just two months later, the second assassination that year of senator robert kennedy. just five years after his brother president kennedy was killedt a moment in his campaign in 1968 beginning to surge and hope to come to chicago and capture the nomination. in 1968, political violence is even more of a defining factor then it is this year but it is also a similarity we have with

2024. host: talk about the role of then democratic chicago mayor d daley and what the leadership of chicago means coming into this convention. guest: that is another great unknown. my book came out last year, 55 years after the 1968 election. that is about how long it takes before we can look back in a less emotional, more dispassionate way, and piece together the records and archives the way historians do research and try to figure out what happened with more personal distance from those events. in 1968, this was richard daley's chicago. he ruled with an iron fist. he took direct orders from the police. the police had orders to shoot to kill, especia arsonists, shoot to maim those looting or vandalizing the city.

liceere ready. there was national guard. there were also fbi and secret service contingents here, as many as 1000. this year is different. i think most americans in middle america have not seen a big city since the pandemic. it is surprising when you see how many storefronts are empty. to protesters are going to be here -- the protesters are going to be here in some number. it is not clear yet what that will be like. current mayor johnson, i do not know what relationship he has with the police. it was certainly not what mayor daley had with the chicago police back then. host: we are ready to take your questions. republicans can call in at 202-748-8001. democrats at 202-748-8000. an independents at 202-748-8002.

we will start with susan in pennsylvania on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. you mentioned earlier about the assassination attempt. i don't have a question but i have a statement about the republican national convention. the grand finale of the republican national convention was donald trump's acceptance speech, which is going to be seen around the world. a highlighted feature of his speech was honoring the firefighter that was killed protecting his family. when the camera pans back to show donald trump standing beside the firemen's jacket, the fireman's last name is spelled wrong. this is a highlighted feature of his speech. they had five days to confirm the proper spelling of this man's last name and could not take the time to do it.

i think it was an insulting stunt and a slap in the face to this hero's widow and children. thank you. host: what role do you think the republicans might have in the dnc this week in terms of how they are going to message around that? guest: that is a good question. i would assume from an historical standpoint, and it was true for 1968, that democrats watched the republican convention closely and republicans were watching what was going on in chicago in 1968. even in 1968, president johnson was not on the ballot having withdrawn march 31, but it was still arguably l.b.j.'s convention. he had marvin watson and john conley here who wanted to make the democratic platform did not get too far away from johnson's policies because he would be

president for another four or five months. i think politicians are right to watch what goes on. in 1968, young donald rumsfeld was here manning the republican lookout at the convention. they do not advertise that fact but i think they want to keep a close eye on or clues they can pick up as we enter the peak of the campaign that kicks off after labor day. host: brian is in cedar rapids, iowa, also on the line for democrats. caller: i wanted to mention, in addition to all of the people -- things that happened in 1968 with the johnson decision not to run and the upheaval at the convention, there was also the peace candidate eugene mccarthy that does not get mentioned much. there was a lot of joy for us in 1968 when he was articulating the importance of getting out of vietnam at that time. he was a major factor at the convention with the other

candidates. one more thing i wanted to add. it is not political. but in 1968, there was a benchmark event at the end of the year which was the arrival of apollo eight at the moon. this was the first time we had gotten out of earth orbit and reached the moon. 1968 was important in many aspects of u.s. history. i just wanted to add that. guest: i would say those are terrific points. eugene mccarthy often does get no more than a footnote in 1968 but he does deserve credit for being the first among the democrats, and not just a minor political figure no one has heard of, but a sitting u.s. senator to come out openly and challenge johnson for his party's nomination. he came close to beating him in new hampshire, close enough it concerned the johnson people going forward.

ultimately, the problem for mccarthy is he was never able to live up to the high expectations set for him for the remainder of the year. frankly, i am not even sure looking at the archival records he really wanted the presidency. if you look at his rhetoric, it seemed almost like he was running against the idea of the presidency and what the united states stood for at that time. i also want to say it is a great point about the moon. when nixon was president, the idea of going to the moon inspired him. when he would do things like go off the gold standard will go to china, he would sometimes reference on his white house tapes it is like going to the moon again. the idea being that something is possible that previously you did not think was possible. host: ron is in michigan on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a democrat. i was 19 in 1968 in chicago. i was a year out of high school. i was an apprentice.

i had friends in the national guard i was playing semi pro football with. i had relatives in the police department. i had friends who invited me down to grant park, let's go fight with the cops. it was -- you know, there was black-and-white youth altogether fighting the cops. you were facing the vietnam war. you did not know which leader would be killed. my brother was in vietnam. it is not the same vibe right now. the people i believe will be demonstrating will not have the numbers, maybe they will have the numbers, but we were demonstrating because we were trying to save our lives from the vietnam war and ready to fight. it was quite a time. like you said, it was revolutionary. a year later, i was in vietnam.

i was antiwar in vietnam. what a time. what a time. these times are even more, what would you say, daunting. it is great to have history. host: you are saying even after being in the protests in 1968, you think the time period we are in now is even more daunting? caller: yes, i think it is. you had the vietnam war. you had division in the country, but you did not have visceral hatred of each other. yes, there was hatred, there was division because you had the cold war, antiwar, people dying. there were 300 or 400 dead every week. how could that not affect you? it was just amazing. it was not the same vibe as now. now, there is a visceral hatred running through this country. hopefully, the democratic ticket

will challenge that and get us out of this mood, this division. guest: yeah. i would add, it is interesting, probably more than any other subject i have researched in my career, when you talk to someone like that caller, i do not encourage anyone to fight the police, but you can still many years later hear the pasonn his voice and the hesitancy as he replays those events. more than any other subject i researched iaree you talk to someone who was here or lived through that time and you can tell that emotion is still raw this many years later. host: joan is in atlanta also on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. one of the things i have heard a lot of people speak about is kamala has been coordinated --

coronated. i believe that was the best choice for democrats because she is the vice president. [indiscernible] host: your line is a little difficult to hear. while we are waiting to see if we can get your line steady, luke, i wonder if you can talk about the mechanics of what happened when it came to the voting on the floor in 1968. guest: yeah. this is one area too where i would say there is a difference between 2024 and 1968. i kind of understood where the caller was going. i keep taking it back to history. in 1968 when johnson withdrew on march 31, hubert humphrey, i don't think they used the word coronated in 1968, but by default, the nomination went to him.

humphrey too did not enter primaries, did not campaign. i suppose the same charge could be leveled against him in terms of not winning the votes of electors. in 1968, the democrats used a different process. when i talk about the passions of people who lived through that time period, never having heard from so many readers who say senator kennedy had he not been killed in early june was going to win the nomination in chicago in 1968. that is "what if" history. we do not know what would have happened. there is no doubt his campaign was surging before he was kled after the primary. this was 1968. in 1968, the process the democrats used was designed to coronate lyndon johnson for another term. it was not until the mcgovern

commission recommended changes to the nominating process which took effect in 1972, in 1968 it was much simpler. you could be a party boss, a state or county chairman, and you could wield votes on the convention floor. in 1968, it was designed to nominate lyndon johnson again and not reward an insurgent like mccarthy or kennedy or those who wanted to change the rules. host: let's see if we can get joan again if her line is more stable. did that address the point you were trying to raise? caller: yes. i just thought if she were a man, people would not be saying the same thing. yes, i think that is pretty much what i wanted. and my concern that people coming to the convention may be -- i guess because of what is

going on in israel and they are basically bringing president biden and kamala. it really has to do with the president of israel who refuses to do the right thing and stop killing the palestinians. again, i just wanted to know what the speaker would think about that. guest: yeah, that is a great question. as i say, history does not predict the future but there are certain things i am watching for between now and november. in 1968, one of the stories i think i told for the first time in the book was how the vietnam peace talks in paris, i make the argument in the book that the closer to november it got, the more those talks were used to try to find peace according to american political timing. this is another potential similarity this year, that there

are peace talks going on in cairo and other places to hopefully get a cease fire between israel and gaza. i think the closer to the election things get, the likelihood these become a greater factor in the campaign. college students are returning this month at many campuses. we are nearing the one-year anniversary of october 7. there is no doubt this issue is not going to go away. host: francis is in massachusetts on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to talk about the vietnam war. i read an article about a female professor out of harvard. her animal's asian -- anal yzation was if we had the support of this country in south vietnam, south vietnam would be like south korea today, a free nation, plenty of mass production.

you look at north korea compared to south korea. so, we made a mistake with those peace people. we are gradually slipping. china is very strong. who is defending that country? these kids are not. they are too much on the computer. someday, they will be wearing chinese pajamas. thank you. host: luke, any thoughts on that? as a father of a 10-year-old daughter, there's plenty of thinking i do about the next generation, and young people always amaze me by what they know and also what they don't know. he raised a really good point, you know, the development of north korea versus south korea, even singapore and thailand. it is interesting come in my lifetime, probably relations today between u.s. and vietnam have never been better. it's amazing to think that these two countries that were at war, and the vietnamese with the french before that, that may be

the result of all this is relationships are better. the enemies are adopting english as a second language in high school. -- of the vietnamese are adopting english as a second language in high school. host: susan is on our line for republicans. good morning, susan. caller: yes, i just wanted to correct them if you had a democrat lady come on say the firefighter was the man who was killed at the trump rally, and his name was misspelled. cbs news found that the buffalo township fire company down that intentionally, because his name is too long, and they can only fit a certain number of letters. so this misinformation has to be corrected. i'm just getting that out there. host: let's hear from robin on

our line for independents. good morning, robin. caller: yeah. i'm a volunteer firefighter. i'm jewish but i'm actually a syrian, which is an ancient christian order. i'm going to compare what happened today with the demonstration. more people go to college then did back then, and people were literally going to be drafted, or some rich kid with sell their draft card to someone in poverty, and they would go off to war. i am antiwar. i worked on the senior campaign come and i left the democratic party a couple years ago. i'm actually a native liberal. hope you are selling bonds to israel. we are making a physical effort to ameliorate the west bank and gaza both, so we have very dirty

hands. while those demonstrating in chicago are not facing the draft, they are probably aware of what is going on, and chicago is a pretty high rate of -- better terms. you cannot get out by going to college or stop sending bones to destroy third world countries. guest: that's an interesting point. yeah. as someone who grew up in the toledo, ohio area, south of detroit, i've always thought of southeast michigan as the greatest population of muslim americans. but i read that actually not far from the united center is a neighborhood called little palestine, which is the largest palestinian neighborhood i guess in the entire country. is an interesting contrast that you offer there. for those who criticize the u.s. war policy, every once in a

while, a politician on one side or the other talk about really back the military draft, and usually those discussions go away pretty quickly. we would have fewer wars if we had a draft, and if people were required to serve again, as they were back in the vietnam era. at least so far, i don't think a politician on either side wants to be voted out of office for suggesting a return of the draft. host: mary is on our line for independents. good morning, mary. caller: luke, i was 17 in 1968 and working a little weekend job at this water filtration plant as a tour guide and volunteering at a veterans hospital. and my dad had gotten tickets for one of the convention events, a concert. and i asked a friend from the

hospital, jimmy, who was a double-amputee from vietnam, to come with me. i knew it was dangerous, because they had closed all the tours at the water filtration plant, because the protesters had planned to drug the water supply. but we got into the place where we were going to hear the concert, and suddenly, this overwhelming smell of, it smelled to me like vomit, came through, and jimmy said to me, that is tear gas. we need to leave. and of course, there were no handicap areas back then, and we hobbled our way out. and thank god the police left us alone, i guess because of how we were dreedto get to the car, to get back home. but in theeantime, those protesters were throwing

everything at everybody, bags of feces and urine and beating people. so, i was just -- i will never forget that night. it was terrifying. and i left a week later to go to europe, and all those protesters were out at the airport. if i could have come i would have spent on them. i hated them. it was a horrible time. the country was just torn apart come in here i had a hero with me, and they were throwing things at us. it was horrible. host: as was mentioned earlier, luke, you can still hear the passion and emotion in her voice from that experience. guest: you sure can. and, you know, that story sounds like it could have happened yesterday. and, you know, i hope those who live through that time period, who have this, document them for

future generations, because for someone like me, who was born after these events and i have to read about them in books. i think it is important that we document our history going forward, so young people know how we got here. host: in omaha, nebraska, on our line for republicans, good morning, charles. caller: yes, thank you. i wanted to ask, you know, now that the democrats are all against the border wall and stuff, and i did not know if in 1968 they pitched around the convention, but this year, i've heard that they accessed around it. if they hate the border wall, why do they want to have a fence around there? host: go ahead, luke. guest: for most people, i have not been to many conventions, but when you do, it is an

intense security situation, almost like none other that i've seen. and 1968, they were at an international amphitheater in southwest chicago. that was torn down about 25 years ago. so now, this year, there are two sites. even walking this morning to the studio long grant park, i wanted to stay at a hotel that was near these historic areas, i would say the fences are set up and kind of off to the side and the margins, and, you know, all of their links are not linked up yet, there are extra sections here and there. but there are cadres of police all over, you know, even two in my elevator at my hotel is nigh, riding up and down the elevator. you see a visible police presence, but nothing really happening yet. but it looks like pretty quickly, they could link up those fences and see a lot of big parts of chicago nearby here, if they need to. host: david in florida on our

line for republicans. good morning, dave. caller: yes, good morning. i was calling initially because of the comments from the person who is obviously -- and the media is not going to tell the truth, and people that they referenced, simply because they had to be put on it, and they had to keep it that way. the lack of information being put out about how this war is being funded. this money that was able to be gotten through restrictions, the cut off of their oil, which is giving them plenty of money to fund all these proxies to attack israel. israel was attacked and has been

defending itself since. everyone who says they should stop defending themselves, ask somebody who said it's nothing but the extermination of your people that will be acceptable. it is obviously unacceptable to the jews, so why would -- host: do you have a question for luke on the historical side of this situation? caller: well, the historical side, yes. it is the birthplace of all religions, in that area, but it will never be solved. it's the beginning of civilization, and it looks like it will be the cause of the end of civilization. guest: you make a good point. unrest in that area has been going on for a long time, so i think the idea that we arrive at a cease-fire that makes everybody happy between now and november seems unlikely.

i would just say come i think the lesson of history is that before we figure out what is really going on behind the scenes, how are the wars being financed, as you suggest. probably our attention will figure something else, prescient at that moment. unfortunately, it is up taking decades them if even then, for us to eventually pieced together and look back on this time period, because today, we are sort of in the eye of the storm, and when you are in the eye of the storm, you lack the perspective needed to figure out what is going on. it probably going to be the historians of the future that do the mopping up job here and make sense of the issues that you raise. host: christian is in florida is on our line for independents. good morning. caller: hi. i just wanted to ask, how do you see the democrat party moving forward, with the overlay, you know, of 1968. like, how do you see them moving forward? what is the path forward for the

party as a whole? guest: yeah. as a really great question. i will tell you the things that i'm looking for, see and whether history can be a guide between now and november. vice president harris has a difficult task. it can be done, but it is very difficult to be your party's leader, to be a party opposing nominee will also being vice president. -- party's nominee while also being vice president. the reason it is difficult is you have to be a candidate and both for a change and continuity at the same time. you have to keep doing the things you've been doing, but you have new ideas wasn't a when you are president. the difficulty of that is, you know, every statement you make during the campaign is measured against any previous statements, for any difference to him and especially for any difference between you and your outgoing president, you know, who might not be on the ballot anymore this year, can still do an awful

lot behind the scenes to exert influence, either to exist or withhold support. and whether in 1968, with lyndon johnson and hubert humphrey, as the nominee, or this year with joe biden and vice president harris as the nominee, i think these are strong parallels between now and january 20. host: robert is in atlantic city, new jersey, on our line for democrats. good morning, robert. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. going to elementary school in iowa city, walking to school with kids that the next-door door neighbor's parents were voting for nixon, my parents were voting for humphrey, we would debate back and forth. a couple years later, after learning to read through baseball statistics and the sports page, i'm looking at the front page, several hundred kids killed, 700 kids wounded, and right under that, kissinger was

given billions to moscow and other warsaw pact countries, so those protesters in chicago come in a lot of ways you were right, and the parallel is, everything we buy at walmart is made with russian oils, manufactured in china and india. so the younger people have a sense, even though they are against the war in israel and this and that, and they want cease fire's, and the older people don't learn from history in the same manner. backing both sides and just about every war. wall street companies were working in germany up until 1943, major ones. so these wars, i hope the protesters get through the party bosses, and the people, the donor class that bankrolled both parties. we need to have peace, for the sake of the inflation tax. host: before i let you respond to that, luke, i want to bring up the actual outcome of that

1968 election, which had nixon get a 43.4%, humphrey getting 42.7%, but also, a big chunk from the third-party candidate, alabama governor george wallace. you know that in your books that his anti-elite tactics come in many ways, so-called anti-elite tactics, set the template for what donald trump later did in the 2016 election and is doing today. can you explain that? guest: yeah. you set that up just right. by the popular vote, tally in 1968, it was close. nixon squeaked it out by about 500,000 votes. of course, by the electoral college, which is where we decide elections, it was a little more decisive, more like kennedy over nixon in 1960. but it was a parallel with 2024

for another reason, because we have potential stronger than usual third-party challenges, and of course one this year is robert kennedy. in 1968, you had wallace, an unusual third-party candidate, who actually was strong enough to win electoral college votes, 46 of them, in the south. we have not had that. it's about once in a generation as americans we see a third-party candidate that strong. it would probably have to go back to ross perot of 1992, who had 39% at one point but did not win any electoral college votes. wallace in 1968 old 23%, and he did win electoral college votes. wallace's message, who ran on kind of race-based appeals in 1962 and 1963, by 1963, by 1968

kemeny had a taste of national politics, and he realized he had to have a message beyond alabama and beyond the south. he had a blue-collar campaign. as far as i know, wallace never said "drain the swamp," but i think of that phrase had occurred to him in 1968, it is exactly the kind of thing he would have said. host: whave a question we ed from jim in rockville, maryland via text. in 1968, richard nixon peace talks through his contacts in the vietnamese government. it probably swung the election in his favor. does your guest see similar interference in israel from trump? guest: that is a great question, and it is something i'm going to be paying attention to, and i think voters should come of the role of the peace talks between israel and gaza, cairo, and other places, and the role that they play in the outcome in

november. 1968 is one where it played a little bit of a roll. when you look at a economy, inflation, and crime, those individual categories, most ones come in gallup, were higher than vietnam. as to nixon's involvement in 1968, since the opening days of january 1969, at least so far, you know, i investigated this in the book, and i have a whole appendix about this, you know, there was maneuvering going on behind the scenes, and it is a bit of a gray area. let's bring it instead to the present. vice president harris said the party's nominee probably attends

national scary meetings. she is privy to information as vice president that she would not have if she weren't vice president. it's a fair question to the debate. so her access to this information be greater than trump's, because he is the republican nominee in a former president? this is one area that is not clear, showed her access be different? can trump or someone in the trump campaign make statements about israel or gaza, political statements, that might influence or detract from what the negotiators trying to get a cease-fire can do? i think this is a gray area in politics. i'm looking, going forward,, how the role displays in the election outcome. in 1968, the conclusion in my book is while there are always some murmurings going on behind the scenes, without going into the whole chapter on this in the book, i argue that the available evidence we do have is not add up very much. host: tom is in louisiana on our line for independents.

good morning, tom. caller: hey. this is a very interesting segment. i would like to salute, if he's got something in his book about what effective rock 'n' roll had on the 1968 experience. and i will hang up and listen. guest: it's a great question, you know, you cannot think about the 1960's without thinking about the pop culture of that decade, the music, the counterculture music. in the 20th century, to me, as a lover of history, it is up there with the color of the 1920's, in terms of the social, cultural movements that are taking place. that come of course, in addition to the political climate, which is what i write about. a lot of the books in 1968 are doorstops, 800-page books that were here in chicago, who observe the events and reported

about them at the time. i tried to write a book based on what is new, what is new in archives that changes our previous perspective on what we thought we knew. i have very little expertise when it comes to music and pop culture, so i knew enough to stay away from those subjects, but it does not mean they don't interest me at the same time, because they are very much part of the 1960's, as you say. host: loss is in spartanburg, south carolina on our line for democrats. good morning, ross. caller: that was interesting. that was a good question about rock 'n' roll. you are talking about the 1920's, i was always interested in using be deaths. the reason i called and was a previous caller said about vietnam, that was an immoral war, which is why, i think, tensions were so high in 1968.

you had enlisted men openly threatening and commending -- committing murder against commanding officers in the field. that war was totally corrupt. south vietnam was not worth fighting for and probably made a mistake was not backing ho chi minh years and years earlier, because he was the voice of the people. sometimes when we make a mistake, the democratic party come up pick candidates that are weak. mondale comes to mind. i think joe biden driving out and endorsing kamala harris has unified the party. whatever the protests are, i don't think anybody can defend arab culture, the kind of palestinians live in. i feel sorry for those people, but when they enlist a law of

rapists and murderers, and that is what they are, no doubt about it. when you live with rapists and murderers, this is what you get. what place did abbie hoffman play in the 1960's? i remember he wrote that book, "don't steal this book." anyway. guest: yeah. among the protest leaders, you would put abbie hoffman up there, jerry rubin, a lot of these names became household names. i think jerry rubin took a little bit of the spotlight. he wrote multiple books. abbie hoffman, whether it was the yippies, the youth international protest movement. i got into protesters of the book, but there are better people who have written about

this before me, like david farber, who have really dedicated their careers to writing about protest leaders and the protest movement. so that is an area i did not get into as much, because i did not think i had a lot of new things to add over those who came before me. but you are exactly right, in terms of a lot of them did write accounts of being here in chicago and what was going on that year, and it is very insightful to go back. and for those of us who did not listen that period, to see what it was like. host: gary is in new jersey on our line for republicans. good morning, jerry. caller: good morning. i was just wondering, pamela, as vice president -- kamala, as vice president, she was the border czar, and she did nothing. now come as vice president, she said she's going to change the border as president.

but as vice president, can't she do that now? can she stop all the people getting murdered from illegals coming in? for 3.5 years, she said no fracking, no fracking, now i just saw on tv saying, yeah, we'll frack . for 3.5 years, she did nothing with fracking and the border, but as vice president, didn't she have any say at all in the border? she was the a border czar. can she do anything now against the border, or does she -- and -- host: jerry, do you have a question specifically for luke about the 1968 protest or anything in the realm of history? caller: no, i was just so confused. if biden is still our president, we don't see him. host: ok, let's go to henry in

maryland on our line for independents. good morning, henry. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: thanks for sponsoring this very thoughtful, historical review here. american culture, conventions, campaigns. the idea has been mentioned several times, but with regard to the current confusion about the middle east, it's not possible to take a historical perspective. and i would like to mention something that i wonder if you could address as to whether it could have, this has to do with the role of us, actually just an idea, that we have all watched evolving in the middle east, starting in i ran in the late

1970's, this idea of "death to america," which was shocking when i heard it at first, firstly hostages were released, but then lebanon, when marines were killed by basically hezbollah, and then nobody was surprised when they started saying "death to america," and then the horrible bombings in new york in the 1990's and 9/11 by al qaeda. and it continues. so this "death to america" idea has just been perpetuated now, generation after generation. i don't think there is any "eye of the storm" element to it now. i wonder, if either party has a registered independent, were able to simply address the mothers, if i ran and hezbollah

and hamas, simply address then, like addressing the nazis in world war ii, saying it is time to stop, for your children, it is time for it to stop. host: i think we have the idea. did you have any thoughts on that, luke? guest: yeah. a couple of things. at chapman university in the spring, when i was walking to class can every day on the way back on tuesdays and thursdays, we had a palestinian cabinet. frequently i would look for students, try to talk to someone come and see what they wanted to share, what was on their mind. and i think it was a reminder to me that this is a difference between 2024 and 1968, how much more diverse and multicultural this country is today than it was in "sundays at eight, and issues -- it was in 1968, and issues. we've always been a country of

immigrants, and still is today, but it is always changing. we are becoming a democratic nation, and it is not clear where we will stand come about what does it mean to be an american, now and a 250 years. i think you raise a really good pointer to the previous caller i would go back to history and say a lot of people leveled charges at hubert humphrey, and 1968, you were vice president for four years, why didn't you do and then, when you had time? humphrey decided the issues in 1968 were not national democratic issues. the economy, inflation, an unpopular war, and rising crime. and humphrey did an interesting thing. he switched to a message from a beginning in october, reminding voters what democrats have done for them historically, to create nostalgia for things like social security and education and jobs,

and it seems like i'm hearing a little bit of the so far out of harris and walz, in addition to the issues i mentioned, maybe it is the affordable care act, is the infrastructure built. i think we are going to see that a bit this coming fall, because the issues also are a bit unnatural, you know, for a vice president who, again, is in this awkward position of running both on change and continuity simultaneously. host: thank you so much, luke nichter, author of the book "the year that broke politics: collusion and chaos in the presidential election of 1968." also the presidential studies chair and a history professor at chapman univ >> tonight on q&a, actor george takei accounts the day he and his family were removed from their homes and sent to an

internment camp following the japanese attack on pearl harbor. ask my father answered the door and one of the soldiers pointed his bayonet at our father. henry and i were petrified. the other soldiers said, get your family out of this house. we followed him out, stood on the driveway waiting for our mother to come out, and when she finally came out escorted by the soldier that pointed his bayonet at our father, she had our baby sister in one arm, a huge duffel bag and the other, and tears were streaming down her cheeks. that memory is seared into my brain. >> actor and author george takei, tonight at 8:00 eastern on q&a. you can listen to our podcasts on our free c-span now app.

>> next step, for c-span's coverage of this summer's political conventions, we had to chicago for the democratic convention. watch live beginning monday, august 19 as the party supports their presidential nominee. here democratic leaders talk about the administration's track record and their vision for the next four years as they fight to retain the white house. the democratic national convention august 19-22 on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. don't miss a moment. visit our website for schedule updates and to watch coverage of the 2024 republican national convention. catch up on past conventions anytime on demand at c-span.org/campaign or by scanning the code. >>