on the oceans, via the impact has been particularly dramatic. with scientists warning human caused climate change is also to blame. and that's it from me and the hosting for now i have an update for you at the top of the hour. of course, god, who's in berlin for me on the team. the turkey is a longstanding member of nato with the alliance, the 2nd largest army. but its president is becoming an increasingly difficult partner, defending israel, a specialist prison, come us as liberators. that posted diplomatic challenge for germany's chancellor, as he prepared to receive the turkish leaders. under outer ones rule turkey has flexed its muscles near and far seeking to project power from the caucasus to the mediterranean court in both russia and china. the presidents,

autocratic policies at home and his abrasive actions abroad, or alienating partners. food on the less depend on hampton is turkey on a collision course with nato. today we're asking between nato and tomas what is, are the ones in the welcome to to the point. it is a great pleasure to greet our guest starting with the lab corp on. she is a visiting researcher at berlin, social sciences center, and she has also reported in the past for turkish media. i'm also very pleased to welcome to tell us of an aria season international correspondent for germany soup georgia sites on. he has been based in the middle east and recorded also from east envelope and with us it's temple is blanche more my. she is an independent correspondent for both turkish and german media also for darcia of ela. and he does

join us from just a welcome to you. do like just before departing for a visit to germany, president out of one stepped up. his are rhetoric on the conflict in gaza, declaring israel to be quote, a terrorist state and more criminal. and calling the crisis a matter of cross and crescent. that practically sounds like holy warfare. what's behind all this venom? i mean, you know, sense he's being typical aren't on this, he has done this in the past and not just when israel is concerned, but he's speaking to domestic, constitute that that's his main targets. i mean, we have the elections coming in turkey municipal elections next year. so he's trying to mobilize the base, consolidated in turkey, public opinion, opinion is very pro palestinian against israel. there's always this on high isabel

sentiments that he wants to, you know, sort of mobilize. and i think he's also counting on the fact that fits. he will once again get away with it because he's always gotten away with it in terms of his relations with the west. he doesn't expect any of you percussion, from nature and from your penalized. and if you'd like to tell us what you're hearing from people, there are these statements by otto on resonating with his political base, but also with other tucker citizens. well actually as we are divided into 2 initials we as we are a huge, a pull rice country at last sentences vote for his audience. but for the, for regular people, what it again seem it doesn't for as the deluxe set, of course, it's a pro palestinian community in turkey. but as long as harsh notes are not being accepted by the whole community. and so if you that is thomas, this rhetoric, this bashing of israel, comes just about 6 weeks after the turkish and is rarely leaders actually met on

the sidelines of the united nations general assembly in new york. and add one, held out the prospect of intensive cooperation between the 2. and he clearly had some very concrete economic goals in mind. so what's with the abrupt switch? what do we all know that as one is a very populous to leader. and the relation of this rather than talk you have been just before. so as he's just riding the wave and the switching positions, i don't know if you can get so easily know because he said is or has no right of existence. but he's also not only concentrating on the trucks, population is also looking on the wider muslim world. and we all know that the perspective of the white and was in the world is different from the west. and you'll be, or german, or the united states perspective towards israel. so i think in the way to muslim world, he's probably save making points at the moment. let's take

a closer look at our ones, abrupt switch from court, and use realtor bashing it and to promoting hate rather than the regional cooperation that he was seeking just 6 weeks ago. when never talk, just president out. one has spoken about the middle east recently. he verbally attacked israel and the west israel. we will denounce you as a rule criminal in front of the whole world. you got the main culture. it's behind domestic unfolding. and because that is the west, how much, how much is not a terrorist organization, but a group as much as dean defending the land. the guy that was that go down the well with many of kentucky and coal south region. the west adder one makes no mention of the east right in the victims to the how much the terror attacks someone connected to both the palestinians and east royal adder. one initially offered to mediate

out of one house and the mess is right aly prime minister netanyahu in september for the 1st time about how serious well to you about this new friendship. experts have long bones that turkey has been a safe haven for him. mass members, as recently as july out of one received is my, you know, he is a political leader of the militant islam as the organization, an incorrect pro palestinian and pro her mas. what is the toughest president's goal? let me go over to you do lunch and pick up on the final point that we heard in that report about tirty being a safe haven for her mouse. in fact, it has been described as have my 2nd largest base of operations after gaza and is dental is a major possibly the major source of financing for her mouse operations. so would

you go so far as to say that without turkey's support, how much would not have the capacity to launch operations of the kind that it did on october 7th? actually, that's not a fair commence, because if somebody might be just that for, for them to just be a political base, we know that they're being supplied by cuts out and by, you know, even so turkey is not induct induction case to keep that a big issue for how much, but we know that all that will be shows most of the patients. what do you need? somebody not gonna talk you later. thanks to let me ask whether either of our guests in the studio would disagree without assessment. i wouldn't disagree. i would agree, and if somebody has the main base of the arrow position over the world, i mean from all the muslim, from all the wisdom countries, people are based and assembled because there's no place to be at home because of the they can move around. so i think if you want to know who financially supports

you wrong, you have to i'm us, you have to look to iran 1st and then to cut the political support for sure. and out on the supporting the muslim brotherhood movements all over the arrow bold. a mouse is an off spring of the muslim brotherhood. so it's more or less logical that he supports a mouse and um is doing it now in a very loud way. do you like, is there an ideological affinity between the a k t party a everyone's party in turkey and him us a yes certainly. i mean, i don't have, i mean, isn't it as to must it over. you'll also add on the system itself as he aspires to be the leader of the muslim world. of course, the muslim world is also divided in terms of political power, but he certainly is on the side with him us. and i think it is important to see that. i mean he's on the one hand, he is he 1st who's rel, politics would oldest on ty is rarely method. for example, he doesn't sanction israel. there are reports in turkish media of shipments from

turkey. continuing to go to israel, you know, he's doing trade because you know, he wants to. so that's the way i put it to. but then we also have to see the ideological side of it could be an ard on, and that is, he definitely is a, you know, it's political, he's on as long as, and i think it's not just, i think we have to be careful about the character i says just against the current is really government, but that is a div sentiment also interpret society of um on tight as well anti semitism which i think he also personally shares and he's playing, you know, so he's playing a game of both that as long as as i said earlier, he can get away with that, you'll continue doing this. let me come back to the game of both with you, thomas. actually shortly after the october 7th attack by him us on israel. the other one said in a telephone call with german chancellor shots that he sees turkey as being ready to

mediate in this conflict. and clearly that's part of the end that you talked about about being a leader in the as la mac world in the region. how see now with his statements thoroughly disqualified himself for any mediating roll or, or his ties to her mouth perhaps exactly what's needed? well, i tried to explain that the other one is the type that we ex, just situations. so he offered to me, do it, didn't have a gun this time he offered to me did in ukraine. he's also really successful, but he's always offering because it sounds good. but and know i'm, i'm, i think he stepped the red line, you know, to come to them. you have to use that israel has a right of existence as a federal state. it will be quite difficult for him to get common ground to schultz, but he's playing that game quite quite systematically and bill. and if i can ask you, um it was mentioned uh by uh, by the like just now israel is

a very important economic partner for turkey. trade between the 2 is extensive and it's also expanding uh, oil weapons. and at this, at that meeting in new york that i mentioned between that on yahoo and other one in late september turkey also held out the prospect of much stronger cooperation on tech and on uh and uh, and on energy as well. and the 2 issues. it's so important i'm talking nowadays now we have the election on march, and we are suffering a huge economic price because of both issues. edwin cannot open a direct, economical, financial lot against israel. as you know, anything to reason is a huge crime. you will need to keep and if you are calling the country as a federal country, like i said for you to hand. and now every day term sheet time sheets are going from turkey carrying still carrying food, carrying petrol from turkish costs to as well. so she is helping us clothing. he's

the throughs country. he's a think the reason. right. so it seems early. so he just pacing and using it for into the politics to be able to use it the 1st time it this is the speech stuff. so it's all just he kept cups of ice. he was a, when a turkish saturday has been stop 10 years. so what has been stopped, but he's male, the forces and step towards the still hoping to the same address. some was something with his own ships, petroleum preserves. so it's just a game. a double game. do like to explain something else that appears that at least 2 outside eyes to be a contradiction at one condemns the bombing of gaza. bye is real, yet he regularly orders were planes to bomb kurdish territories in northern syria, including areas near the us troops that are battling isis. how does he rationalize that he doesn't have to? because he's not ask these questions,

but certainly not in turkey because he has to go to almost total control over the media, but also not over the by the west. and i think that's one of the main to main fundamental problems here. we don't see coverage in the middle states and actually of what he's doing in northern siri up, which is under turkish occupation. so he's applying actually another country against international law. and of course, using, as he said, you know, bombing it as it is. and that's if you would ask him, see what customized that of counter terrorism because he considers the people id which you know, it represents the armed a kurdish groups in syria as opposed organization which is not shared by the west. and the us not by the you to, from his world we, it makes total sense because it's old terrorism because our service and on israel is also right. that's how we characterizes these kind of questions about because he doesn't have to explain any contradiction. she just says it's and does it,

it is the west that meeting needs to hold him accountable for all of these, you know, he's violations of international law, but also he's violations of your peers, nissan or so let's talk about the west in the form of nato. a thomas in fact, and a one is the only nato leader who has expressed open support of him by us that has been widely reported in questions has been asked yet. nato secretary general strong about play that down this week saying uh, i quote, the terrorist to get a support for the terrace group on the part of everyone poses no problem for nato because the alliance plays no role in the is rarely, i'm us conflict really well i mean, what shows still some good signal and so it is the 2nd biggest army and they to, it's a very well equipped then very forceful on me. so adam plays the game with nato for quite a long time. he's blocking sweden's membership and they to address just pulling

nato and natal cannot afford to kick him out later. just need some. they just need stroke. is it borders, russell borders the caucasus has both of the queen. so what, what fun they to do? so spoken back is trying to avoid the problem present. it sounds like thomas is telling us that turkey has made over a barrel a i'm sorry, i couldn't hear you. it sounds like thomas's saying to us that turkey has nato essentially over a barrel. that nato is so dependent on turkey that it cannot call out of actions that clearly conflict with the alliance is principles. absolutely, and as we know, that ad one uses every christ to, to, to, to create more power for himself. but in ukraine he tried to be the mediator just to gain much more was just to gain much more power. and by using the could you,

you should, you try to use it as a leverage. now he's trying to use the same cry between how much and between israel sees you twice will be the main data. but it, please don't forget that after the 1st effects a promise or after the 1st effects of us doing was still quite for 2 weeks. the chart to be mid day to when use that to a wasn't accepted, then you start the harsh this could start these routes. so he always wants to gain a much more power from the prize. now he's tried to do the same thing and they to try to block something to do much more things for him. so in fact, do like he did blame nato to sweden joining nato for nearly 18 months after the most of the rest of the allies had agreed that sweden and finland absolutely should join. he now has presented the succession agreement to the turkish parliament. so he seems to have climbed down on that one,

none the less. clearly turkey is a necessary nato partner, but is it a reliable one? it certainly is not, but i think it is. and i would have maybe share with them. i said earlier that need to is the, i mean, of course it is dependent on her to but this kind of feeling of, or on the part of the e, u. natal and european governments that they, they, they need to talk to me. and both of those are the ones 1st, or, i mean, these are piece a month. there's a whole history of a piece of policies on the part of, you know, you are open to us, but especially europe towards our delani, the black mentioned the refugee deal earlier. there is need to question. and every time when the west shows the weakness and fear from that, just put that just in bold is and even further, i think that here, the balance is, i mean it's clearly the west that's more powerful than our delong. turkey is very much dependent on the west militarily, economically, financially, etc. i think is really time for, for example, tomorrow of schultz to publicly show,

you know, sort of the strength of signal to turn to add on and to turkey that do you know, the west will not keep tolerating this kind of unreliable behavior on the part of from a financial number clearly uh, outer one prepares for his visit to germany with a vision of himself as a strong leader of a 100 year old republic with a gold in future. but in fact, at home sky rocketing inflation. a plunging currency and under orthodox economic policies are provoking doubt, especially among the young. and he stumbles 6 months into president ad once the term in office. more and more people want to leave turkey, especially those that are young and education. one of them is true saying the stop an english teacher or do any best of

a country a you are valuable person in turkey, you're not a valuable person because you can be at the trace or the any time people are in this, the over the repression and add one so sore terry, in the system but also over the economic crisis and the high cost of living most recently, the official inflation rate was at 61 percent fonts. it is difficult to get a visa, some pay smugglers and make the way to western europe via the balcony roots. in germany, almost a 3rd of all asylum seekers now come from turkey in october alone, and that was almost $10000.00. the 2nd largest group off the syrian refugees who say, do you also wants to go to germany? is b a z to losing space and how to once promise of a tucker century?

and we'll come back to that question in just a moment, but thomas, let me ask you, 1st of all about this, the chancellor schultz is going to receive other one just by quite a bit of pushback, from a number of groups in germany who say he should not be doing so one of the reasons is that germany and z you are looking to turkey to help stem migration into the you. on the other hand, we've just heard that turkey is actually, or everyone's policies are actually triggering migration to this country. why is chancellor schultz receiving the other one at this moment? well, i mean, the, the, the, you need seem because of the rest of these emails, i'm not gonna, as it is not working, as you has expected it to work, it just doesn't go this way. and that was playing this game with it. and the 2nd thing is, um, would you refuse to receive that on the drum and what does it really mean it's, it's quite difficult to put pressure on ad on, on the palestinian issue on the,

the, the israel issue is very, very difficult. it is not so easy and i do not agree with the will that the west. so let's not talk about the west because the west doesn't exist, but to put pressure on them. that's not that easy. there's not even the mechanism to exclude someone from they to mean what do you want to do? and he's playing the russell game. so i think he's in a very, very strong position and able to show that strong position when he comes to, to berlin and able to choose a shoals that curtis demonstrations are showing. the terrors can move around in germany without any police control. and that's then it will come from the homeless terrorism issue. and then d, like the last time you sat at this table, it was just a few days before the election, entire turkey, where you and the others had a sense that possibly the opposition might topple him. from power, when you now look at the outlook for your country, you see a report like that and that describing the economic misery, you know, so well. what is your sense of fear?

turkey is going and how the west can maintain relations with this country. i mean, it's doubtful from here, it's just getting worse and worse. the elections were indeed attends for such things to start to change for the better. but it didn't work. i mean, just, we now have a crisis, for example, between the high courts and turkey, where a high court of appeals openly. okay, he's a criminal complaint against members of the church is constitutional court for a judgement that they've, they've a deliberate, that upset are the one so it is, he is going to consolidate his one man rule more and more, you know, his complete control of the judiciary the judge, you know, the media economy. so the only thing is, i mean, the economy is not doing well. so that's one question. if there is a serious, that kind of a crisis that might perhaps bring his end, but later, i mean, he's just so strong. and the other is of course,

the west. i mean there are still things can, that can be done you expression for example, you know, i mean there's no reason why church still has that like social status. although of course, clearly while it's coping i can pull school criteria. i mean that's something that to do. i'm to use, you know, i mean sanctions except i think it's just things to be done on the part of the west and you and natal. but other, but i don't see that happening too because of this feeling that they're dependent on to receive them like fish and etc. so i'm afraid torque is going to go as attrition is going to go. i'll continue going really badly until i do not know. maybe an economy can make a kind of a crisis, but as long as he's alive and might see, i just do not see in the short term how, how this is going to change your mind. if i come back to our title, as you remember, it is between nato and him, us what his are the ones and from everything that all of you has said, it's clear that his aim is to maintain and expand his own power.

if that is the case, should germany essentially be receiving and supporting him at this critical moment when germany itself is striving to show solidarity with israel and fight anti semitism here at home, the same anti semitism, he is provoking with his statements. cutting stars is not resolution, of course he can't accept, he can be a mystery shows acceptance that i don't and they, they do big company in contact. but the thing is, yes, in the west, let's say germany needs to take your lesson needs to get this thing started, add or needs restaurants, or for too much, especially in financially means. like if you, if you, if you're just support team, if you could just make your feel up to you just the strong guys. people think it ask for more that's ad was way as we all know. but at the same time, with sometimes not sometimes actually should always be burned. conduct sheet has to

be connected with a democratic cruise. i'm sure you know, melinda, even butchering that has been pending to keep it. people cannot accept on our website without using vpn every day. and other joining this is being the rest of it . i hope you'll start this to 20 bucks a couple of months ago. so things are getting boomers. you then risk when they're having contract, having come with additional sidewalks. they should 3 my team and use the republic which they have a monkey. let me go quickly to thomas cutting ties is not an answer says do that to you would agree. just have it fully agree to that. what depends which ties that can sometimes needs to be cut you, accession process, present status for example, should be lifted. circuit should be suspended from the council of europe. i think certain ties needs to be broken. thank you very much to all of you for being with us. thanks to our viewers for to and again, do check out our youtube channel and let us know what you think. save soon.

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the the this is the, the news line from ballot. israel says it as discovered a tunnel shot at the all, she fell hospital in gauze. these very limited terraces, these pictures proved from us militants were using the medical facilities to combine and that's applying how must denied also coming budget top adelanto hits to berlin. the tactics president visits germany while his criticism of israel and the war and gaza stud features the bank.