coming up after a short break, and remember there's also more news on the go for you on our website that's due to be dot com. and of course on all your social media is where our handle is at the w news. i'm here until the maryland. thank you very much for joining us. the vibrant listening place of loan in the mediterranean sea and mazda and jeff bar up to coming to us during motor in large styles and submitted to a name. and mediterranean jenny. this week on the dw, or you're

going you now the president, you in new york or washington? so i'm a man was direct access to the president of the united states. he once possessed huge amounts of power. but how did they wield it? what indelible mock did you leave from the nation in the world? and what mock does it leave on him? more than a decade to go, we travel t's guest house, new york for risk. sit down, interviewed for the 1st time, henry kissinger agreed to an in depth conversation about his life and legacy. the

difficult times throughout history us latest civil waste relied on the advice of wise man. especially men with experience leading the country to the nation was really off to the attacks on $911.00. but how would it respond? then you as president george w bush consulted henry kissinger fees, kissinger had come and go on through the doors of the white house. and then he had changed the course of history presents. gotta be thinking strategically in order to shape events. and henry kissinger is a very good strategic thinker. he's made

a career being a strategic thinker. he's got a mind that the worst strategically i've seen him regularly. us troops attacks of rock. the invasion into this far away country was disastrous. we'll switch to the end. so once again, bush turned to henry kissinger council, kissinger advised, don't give up. the us must win this for i think you can learn a lot from history. the key is for present not to get stuck in the past. one can learn from experience hand about how to deal with today's current problems. and henry kissinger is, had a lot of experience henry kissinger had the hard, less sense of the vietnam to reflect back on how it began. usa just believed though, in a global back then the girl wasn't waged and the name is tara and radical is some of

the enemies at the time was coming in is what led us into the most to apply globally defensive boots that had been successful. then you go to it was the theory that if you could step communist aggression, you then could build democratic societies. and you could step communism. and there was also the theory that communism was to determine the over to though the non communist, the mid 19 sixty's, the united states divided the world into friends and foes. americans traced at the precarious situation like a game, illinois. if just one piece was a full, just one nation, the next to would full to leap was the so called domino theory, that if, if we who had become engaged in vietnam against

a fire for long communist attack on south vietnam and maybe in the whole region that if we pulled out, just let it happen, that, that other countries would be absorbed into the soviet other communist international system. they believed still in the late sixty's eroni as early as it turned out that they were sort of a unitary communist world out. that the people's republic of china and the soviet union were conspiring together with other communist countries. therefore, they really looked at how the extraction of, from vietnam was to take place as being absolutely vital to the national interest of the united states. and re, kissinger was no stranger to states,

but wanted to whose walls he grew up in germany in the franconi and town fish. it was a jewish child, living under an anti semitic tyrant, added to his voice, beat us up on the street. and that, that would be signs that to you. and i didn't like it's like that, but i didn't suffer from it. the way my parents that his fafsa was a teacher kissinger shirley chain and have agreed to flood with his family to the united states. the year was 1938 a month too soon. in new york hines became henry embraced this new open society. there was the constant feeling of mistrust and danger,

at least not the 1st thoughts young case and just so in his surroundings and his new felt freedom. the impression was that it was a much more pertaining its life that was used to input people that much more demonstrative in talking to each other the concept of day day. because i know in foot in the 19th it is so that the relations between the sexes and the legs were less constrained than they were in of the middle class to a minute. that the i had growing up in union with his friends for 1st, including and flush who would like to be his wife for 15 years also escaped germany . so it just childhood friend, frank harris, both main joined the us army and it was time for another good buying at the iceland drug screens,

or it was shortly before we and that the united states armed forces and for the happy to be together and implants that we are friendship for and door and we will get together. i have to become back. kissinger retained to germany, the country with many of his relatives to be moved and now he was an american soldier. increase fence is division was tossed with establishing a civilian administration and tracking down nazi put the traces for so many of my family and friends. i cannot see that i did not have the sense that this was an opportunity to get these. i had, in fact, the opposite sense. i thought it was wrong for the germans to treat the tubes as a on a that as a category. it was wrong to treat the treatments as

a category up to serving the military, henry kissinger. it returned to the open society of the u. s. a previously worked in a shaving bush factory now upon his return. he enrolled hoford's university, it shaking his shyness and growing his self confidence, his personal american dream was to become a political scientist. i was a student at harvard and he was as you know, a fairly famous professor there of the international affairs at the center for international affairs where he was a prominent i think from the latter and 19 fifties had written a book and 1957 called nuclear weapons and foreign policy kissinger analyzed the lemmings french post for the soviet union. you developed a concept that the limited use of the american nuclear weapons. the books spock the conversation. in 1968,

which should mix and when the us presidential election mixed a new with kissinger through his work and vice and other politicians you, since you did not seem to highly of nixon for them. but he was places when nixon of pointed to you as a national security advisor. i am to the asked declared that this assignment and i show, so the president elect with all my energy and dedication as a politician and the professor. so this julia would shape world history. nixon had campaigned the promised in the vietnam war. but at the beginning of his time, both men, we, you know, over the head when we were still finding out the location of the offices and the ride out. before we could do anything to know if we need to meet started on the offensive in which 500 americans were killed a week. and much of that came from from the fact that

we took this for 4 weeks. and we had separate over 2000 categories in the 1st month of nixon. reset that from a deployment that we had not put this low attachment dates in america for density is any of that mixing and kissing just 1st because the whole peroration was booming, cambodia way north vietnamese. sanchez for heidi cambodia was officially a neutral country doing who under no circumstances could the truth behind the attacks come to the we expected that somebody would protest, cambodia, north vietnam, rush at somebody. we would then have said that they have for you an investigation

of what happened on there, and we are willing to pay damages for any of this direction that because do i have to do the amazement? nobody protested, not the cambodians, not the north read me. it's not the us and it's not the chinese. and that was the origin of the secret bombing, and it was not intended to be 6 it. but it was an bombing that was going on to which nobody objected. and therefore, for us to volunteer this information at might start a crisis that at least on any given day, it seemed a nice. it said the, the bombing of cambodia was not kept under wraps. it was a leak among top washington officials and a reporter with the new york times broke the story. i went to 2 men who are extremely well placed, one of the state department, one of the white house,

the official at the state department said jesus h christ have no comment. but his expression said otherwise, you could tell from his expression that he was amazed that someone had put these pieces a top secret information together and come up can out with that scenario. i then went to the white house person and did the same thing. and he said, you know, i've never lied to your bill and i won't start now. so let's change the subject. at that point, i realized that i clearly had the story and wrote kissinger was relaxing in florida with the president as you do more often in late 2 years. the pay some quad was punched when security advise the case and just found house about the new york times expose a the secret bombing of cambodia was a secret no more. they were furious. they were furious at the leak.

dixon, of course, wanted to as usual, as you can see over the successive years next. and wanted to find the leak or kissinger did to. this was the 1st big breach of security as it were inside the administration. they were only a few months old, and already one of their, one of their secret, most secret moves and foreign policy had been revealed in the front page of the new york times who was behind the lake to track down the soles. the b on, i touch numerous telephone lines including the is it just closest i what part do kissinger himself play? i'm not here to say that i enjoyed or approved henry kissinger going along with wiretapping of many of his closest associates, including me. i think it was a mistake. having said that, i did not hold this against kissinger fundamentally because i did share his view

that the legs was serious. i do not agree with people who do me the l. hey, played a very strong role with this as well. so i think a was the key liaison with the f b i. if there was something a worrisome that appeared in them were delivered to henry's office sometimes to me and, and, and henry's absence sometimes directly. then read my own little and was then a leak of good. and after the investigation, it started to supply the names of the people who had access to the information of the salt of the lake was never found. kissinger meanwhile, had become one of the most influential men in the united states. even the secretary of state william p roaches stood in case i'm just shut

a case in just the national security council shaped. the nation's foreign affairs strategy had bossed amounts of power, very few friends in those early days, early months. he was exceptionally careful about what he did, how he did it had he was very difficult while all of us who worked for him. and i mean by that you know, double check everything we did and so forth. i don't think he was loved or particularly liked by the people who worked closest with them. i think it was a kind of loyalty because they respected his confidence, his substantive ability. but i don't think any one particularly liked him as a, as a human being the july 1969, 6 months off to taking office. next, some shuffled with kissinger to south vietnam into the was

a mix. wanted to deliver on his campaign promise to in the war structure buys, read assistance, john f. kennedy, and lincoln b johnson. because it came time to make good on his pledge to bring the war twin honorable and the politicians sold. henry kissinger was tossed with execution. the plan for off towards the non, if a material last next and then kissinger refused to accept defeat instead of ending before they became more deeply entrenched units that were taken aback by the resilience of a new beaten amaze opponents. the operation began at 6 o'clock on friday morning, so i gone 53 hours before extending kissinger ordered american troops, twins a 10 body. at this time, the operation has no secret. the moon wrapped up tensions even the work that the operation was beginning. to use that he was continuing to work

with nixon. both of them were working full time to continue that war until uh, 72. when mixing could get re elected as a result of 25000 american soldiers were killed unnecessarily and hundreds of thousands of a vietnamese and may 1970. and he was sent to mike, which just sees a page tens of thousands of americans took to the streets to protest the actions of the us government makes them. and the security is by say, ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states make some responded with more promises the $150000.00 americans that i announce for withdrawal the next year will come home on schedule. and it will, in my opinion, serve the cause of the just peace be a not as to vietnam will scaled off divisions and kissing his team. deep and 3

close aids was on tony lake and i and bill watts, who were 3 people who resigned from the staff in protest of the invasion did not make a public public declaration of our position and did not call a press conference simply because we thought that would so irreparably damaged kissinger, inside the administration, and we thought the administration was so awful, so bad, that to destroy or damage kissinger would, would hurt the country, would to weaken him. we thought that i, ronnie cli, kissinger was our last best co, an immigrant, a political scientist. and in some ways an outside the slain, some wanting, mixed instruct, ignition could you have them? uh, it's just a precedence for you. what do you even want that kitchen? just boss was a complicated man who distrusted intellectuals like his previous this is mixed and

wanted. the taping system installed in the white house, but he wanted to take it one step further that you wanted to record all his conversations with his record as an employee. both offices and telephone lines. there were 6 microphones embedded in the president's desk up from bottom to top. that turned out to be not a very good idea. because normally, when the presence discussing things with his aids at the desk, their coffee cups on the desk, which rattled over by the fireplace, where the president always sits with a very important state visitors. there were microphones in the face of a lapse in the cabinet room. they were on the face of the lamps on either side of the wall, then or on all the office telephones, and in the present and sitting room over in the residence. he had a habit of sitting in the lincoln room, which is just a sitting room that phone and that room were also booked. and later on he had his

telephone and his little private study up at camp david's book and his office across the street in the executive office building. but i learned that i learned it only inmate of 73. about 6 weeks before the taping system was established, when general egg became adviser, it told me that i would shock and but the strange thing was a bit it 1st. and so i have to be careful when i'm in, in uh, but after 3 or 4 days, that was really no choice. you could not compose something for the tape valuable,

talking to the president. so for the 6 weeks, the tape submitted an operation that i knew about it. i'd be interesting to compare. but of what i said was significantly different from before i've, i've never bought that to do this. i would guess not. but it's, it's, it that it will system the kissinger also had a deep sense of miss cost. is leisha, he to record is his conversations. and he to release his grip on the system. i recommend it to him. i said henry, it is the only way. unless you're going to write notes to yourself and then bring people into the office and say, here's what i said to him. this is the only way you can make a record of what you talked about,

what you committed to it. and also to remind you of if you want to write a book later on, you've got these things here that you can pull together and get some sense of what you're renewing. so he did it. one of the problems of that period is that we all kept so many that code that any body who wants to prove sample and can pick out his sentence and then make that that sign post for the whole period and the without expanding the context, the why it's happening also impacted really front. the german chancellor implemented us to politic susie intentions with the communist eastern block in favor of a peaceful coexistence. the approach may kissinger suspicious, even if his recollections of that period he said from his aides, i had develop normally to admit anything for really brand. then it was made up and

then the end tables, a symbol of existence to the soviet union and the at. so i had very high to god for him. i don't remember him having a particularly warm feelings, but i think he thought basically, so that he was a socialist. therefore, one had to deal with him very carefully. he wasn't while about him to put it mildly . he had serious questions. i don't think he had my missed brought very much i'm being canceled. i will put it by the way. i think he thought that the really bronze was a terrible mistake for the federal republic case and just sold the german chancellor as an adversary when it came to managing relations with the eastern block. really branch teeth of the line between allied and rifle for ms. thomas,

i just got tired of elizabeth search, been sitting on some of this stuff, but i am in my know, one of my tasks at that time as defense, minister and leader as finance minister was to erase any doubts in the united states regarding germany's reliability as an ally adoption, i told henry kissinger villi brandt is a decent man. you can take him at his word. i trimmed up under his not in the least said. i can take you at your word, but i don't know him of this. that was his mentality and he didn't say that word for word, but that was how he felt that the large event brand and to the washington on the house. what does i was in washington was very pond to and we stayed at the blair house. you need to have an image on spoke very openly about how little he thought of an extensive artificial. and i cautioned him that he should be a bit more careful that these rooms would no doubt be bought. that gives us groped, and he said, i don't believe that we're not in moscow. he said, and i replied,

well, i do believe it's possible. in any case, he grew more cautious, and in the end, it was true that it was bogs. of course, it ended up on nixon's desk, and nixon asked 10 rates. and then, and of course, henry told his president, who was a difficult man. it's like a logically what he wanted to hear was actually a goodness of some one day of the recording of his conversation caps. you'd make some quoting french and dom kissinger, greed adding frank was lazy and this nice, right? but the real tension between fully bryant and the americans ran deeper kissinger hop and his social political jealousy, appearing the germans would become too cozy with the russians.

the that includes experience of us because we thought it could be the beginning of a separate driven approach. and lead to a new kind of to them. and that's, and that is the politics in henry's view. and i think with some justice sliced underneath henry's attempts at what, what was the term we call we were describing, they, tod brant, pursue his policy openly. something to send you a couldn't afford to do. he had to circumvent the public tie when reaching out to the communists or else the backlash and the you with what has been to christ, to since you wanted to visit china. but the trip needed to be kept under wraps. it has to go the 5 pack us down. the cover story was going to be the case and you was going to get a stomach ache and have to spend time in a hilltop, which we were covering. the problem is you've got a real stomach ache while it was in india before he even got that back as to him.

and he had to hide that because it couldn't have to stomach ache. so he had to suffer the real stomach a to preserve his carpet store. we got to pakistan, and his loved the bad kissinger greeted reporters as he would have on any other trip. it was crucial that no one could catch wind of the fact. the mix and security advisor was headed to beijing was all the big groups in which the pipe of stony preston played alone. in the middle of the night. we packed in a hotel and were driven secretly to the as, while i'm about airport by the pack is not a foreign minister and got on the president pakistan's airplane. the most dramatic point in my entire life, i think was that 1st secret airplane created from his arm about the pages because the flew by k to the 2nd highest mountain in the world. beautiful morning,

the dawn coming up in the snow, glistening. none of the world knew where we were, except for very few people who were about to meet the chinese and jo online particular that we had not seen for 22 years. so you had a huge historical and geo political ramifications. you had the james bond secrecy to match the china the case in july to didn't same time extra to the opposed to the united states, a closed society to from about the ideological directives of a test, part of the pinnacle of power. the china under met. she was a pretty nasty place in the opening to china was a product of the belief that we needed to work with china in order to balance the soviet union a that was a real politic and

a very important example of it. and in terms of henry kissinger has a history on slice. a nixon made a special visit to beijing nixon going to china represented a complete turn around in one of the central tenants of american foreign policy. throughout the late 19 forties. all of the 19 fifties and essentially all of the 19 sixty's. and that was that we could in effect make china go where you're by pretending that it didn't exist. the kitchen, just back channel diplomacy paid off us officials steps pushed into the world. if there audiological adversaries for the 1st time, as the world watched, henry kissinger had news, the needle marching the nation into into the chapter, a foreign policy. the meeting with mount c tool had the potential to stay at the cost of history in

a different direction. he lived in a residence in the big city, which was very simple. the 1st few times i saw him, there was a bed actually in his study. don't nobody had that more polite sort of residence, which he didn't show he himself. but there was this admin fee to my 3 the he had a very shop good to to mind. of course, it's also responsible for more crimes and for more that's than any other contemporary. so the fact that he had disappeared into that is no justification. it doesn't excuse what he did

in domestic politics, but as a strategist in foreign policy, he was extremely impressive. but kissinger had other ideas in store. china was part of a grace applying to him. removed china from the complex of foreign policy issues that we had to view as, as closely related to the soviet union, we broke that relationship clearly publicly. it gave us an opportunity to play the chinese against the soviets, and vice versa. the head of nixon's main, 1972 visits and most of kissinger arranged the details in the background americans . misgivings about the associates with 2 great the sides, nick some point, spotlight fixed on him. but the super pulse was still tangled up in

a piece of proxy warranty. at 9, when the us was in danger of losing the upticks for critical. the summit in most could not look like a meeting between a window and a loser. behind closed doors, kissinger full with associates of the protocol, they had agreed to continue the summit. despite the fact we were then finding about hanover and i saw the single bows at alex. so we had a special session and a dot your country home a present from which i was involved just a few of us with the for watching leaders and brezhnev and the others lectured nixon for 3 and a half hours mercilessly on a terrible policies in vietnam. and how we want to get out and uh, and the mood was very test. when this was finished we went upstairs and brezhnev all the others completely changed. they moved off it as barker started singing and cracking jokes. they had obviously done this session so they can send

a transcript to at no additional hotels. they were the you did not have the brain power of the chinese leaders or of that good. so you can do, you had that sort of fundamental instinct and i thought that he really wanted to achieve peaceful negotiations for the united states. and he was willing to cut some corners in order to do it. and in some ways, i sort of him later, it's sort of afford on a fraction of, of garbage, of, in the sense that he had understood. there was something wrong with that. just someone with those met face to face was right with symbolism. but in reality, it came down to the withdrawal from feeding them in your to your head, who was calling the shots to since you had precious little time to figure out

oppression and strategy. he had other good. good april, i'm confident page is america would drain that sylvia union and so on practical negotiations on weapons. he was very nice to have great co operative and i know there was a big debate in america that they was threatening to the chief of foot stride capability. i never believe that in history has shown that it was totally concept. cocktail diplomacy went to foster many people's tastes, and the us was henry kissinger. gambling was the nation's pride. he believed that he had to maneuver in a, in an agile and sometimes quite cynical way in order to compensate for the the absence of strength from the american position. and if you ask about re,

i'll pull it take in the context, i think it was the view that you have to be prepared to do things that you would rather not do and that you wouldn't do if you were not in the circumstances that you found yourself there and it doesn't go as far as saying the, the end justifies the means. but it certainly tends in that direction. so much in moscow did not bring it in to the vietnam war. increasingly desperate to nixon increase in just steal themselves against the possibility of defeat. they threatened their enemy with the phones as but done in previous years. president nixon was becoming increasingly unpredictable. most i need to his enemies,

but to his closest aids. there was speculation with the us present was truly sound of mind kissing just really capitalized on his president's weakness, turning it into a strategic strength the madman approach. true to international relations was quite unique. uh, you know, nixon nixon had this theory that if he could project a, kind of your rationality in his behavior that it would intimidate, frighten a, these foreign governments, the soviet union in china, the v of the maze and so on. so he cultivated the image of the unpredictable president who might do something really crazy. something really awful. people wanted. how file would nixon go? really? would he use nuclear weapons? anybody who knew next would tell you that he often made

that exhibit in statement that it's because it's way of letting off steam. it never meant that it was an actual policy. so it's not hard to go through all the telephone conversations that you that beyond and find that he made some delinquent statement . kissinger frequently use the unpredictability of president nixon as a tool sometimes as a rather delicate tool, sometimes almost like a sledge hammer. uh, but the line would always be, look, i understand what you're trying to say. i understand what your point of view is, but you have to understand. i am representing this, this very unpredictable sometimes i think he might even go so far as to say there's

maniac back at the white house. and while i might be inclined to go along with your point of view, she would not or so she used nixon. nixon used to make some deliberation deploying, you see a width and the worst case scenario to, to send you a headlong. so it's considered the what he said was actually matter on what he was saying was that again to get the nuclear x that is still good at so great that unless you can convince your intact and it's that you might go further than you would normally expect even that take it seriously. that was it correct analysis. but if you act, if you look at what he actually did,

he did in foreign policy and i cannot think of any international act it took. the new cable mongering did not seem to intimidate the north vietnamese. you said you travel to paris at 1st cuz at lee and then repeatedly for pace towards the negotiations carried on. phoebe is much like the war and the far east i was directly involved in the 1st secret negotiations by the end of 1969, the beginning of 1970. we had a basic agreement on a, on a withdrawal schedule for both the north vietnamese and the united states. a kind of coalition arrangement with south vietnam sharing power with the viet cong in kind of what we called a leopard spot arrangement in south vietnam. where, where they control part of the territory and the south vietnamese government. the

other part we could have ended that war by them, by the middle of 1970, if it hadn't been for the, the cambodian crew and any invasion. when you have 550000 troops involved and you have already lost 35000, you can trust it. and it's all like a television said and said, we don't care about the people who it rely ends on. i would have cast if they'd uh, with us and just technically how to get 500000 people out of a country. if you would think of the problems, people have no evacuating a few 100 people. so be to the system and they could retreat and strength name. the people that we had supported was a necessary cause and effect. and i

think there was no answer because the americans pictured the whole ending in trial . instead, they were dependent on the goodwill of their enemies and kissed interest to go. she had to encounter pots later, tow superpower with humiliation. she said you have to give his old package to the face as the honorable withdrawal which has been promised. it was not a pleasant experience because the strategy but the breakout spinet. the strategy was to maneuver us into positions in which the demoralization of the american body politic continued. in essence, the what it seemed is beautiful. it is, the

town is been poisoned and the government is doing nothing to submit it. if i still challenge was once the pride of sadie, but now in chinese ownership, it's become a dreadful pollution. kanza is on the right. environmental activist sufficing doc and demanding action focus on fuzzy minute w. europe's largest house made by

a 3 d printer, is being assembled in the southern german city of heidelberg approach to building that promises to be economical. climate friendly and quick. leading only 3 workers on site for 3 d printers. the builders, the this is data bure news, and these are our top stories. the palestinian militant group, tomas has handed over another 6 hostages. these really armies says based on information from the international red cross. it follows the release of to is really women earlier on thursday. the freedom of the hostages raises hopes that the troops between israel and the moss could be extended for another day. 3 people have been killed and more than a dozen wounded after gun an open fire.