one way is there another way officer ruled, the environment is not responsible make up your own mind, dw, made for minds. as with so many african come fix. the latest fighting into don has brought death misery to huge numbers of civilians. this time, even the un has been shocked by what zip code the unprecedented speed of this integration. whatever happens to africa's low loss promise to silence the guns, but we bring him 6 ounces to such questions. these are suit, denise born bridges, millionaire, for the foundation, the researches africa's problems and rewards. those who try to solve them. fuzzy ever lose faith in africa that feedbacks in some countries. unfortunately,

one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for one of the core of africa's problems he says is by governance. and why is it still so prevalent? how was it that african leaders voted themselves immunity from prosecution to the most serious crimes was behind the refuse, or some states to condemn most goes invasion of ukraine? is it paid back for the rows of colonial? occupies the suff most welcome to conflicts of thanks. i us, you've tried so many years to promote that governance in africa, in some countries you've had some success, but the violence never seems to go away. in sudan, the country of your bus decades of fighting another killing has become again an honest how personal is this conflict to you?

is the very best at stan at work. and i will be able to have this, i've done this. and what we have here is 2 sides to this. fighting a button in, in our capital. each side wants power and was power comes financial out as well as this is still a blessed story. and this is tory of, for just a minute to the cause is essentially old story, unfortunately. and enough is enough for all those guys, despite the treasures by both sides, to respect, humanitarian principles. that hasn't been the slightest effort to avoid civilian casualties. why is it okay? absolutely, i don't see the issue of them think they can somehow when this don't the kind

of be a we're not here to kind of be will not only who is us able to find this losing and so that these people are losing the list and then for a flash card we have is being destroyed, detective easy is in a mess. and most divisions of buying the soldiers. it's, it is, it is very said, do you ever lose faith in africa? no. despite all this, that's going yet, but that's when can be out of 54 countries according to our index in the last, over the last 10 years. you know, we would use an index, somebody, you have governance in africa. the majority of episodes of applicants living in a bit of government countries that 10 years ago. so are moving forward. that's it backs in some countries. unfortunately, one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for what but this conflict is you've also said is taking place against the

really dismal tapestry of backsliding. democracy as the number of states, bad governments. you've quoted africa's own goal. and you said we are responsible for how much of africa shit is your sense of responsibility for this? we okay. this the funding governor, governor to z d. i bought a number of, of, of deliverables. one of them of course, is human rice delivery about submission, etc. i don't, the boxes are quarterly, then these are human developments. and so there's a ruler of security. and the bitch of the bishop is really mix yes. course over the last 10 years after got made the point of progress in the area of infrastructure. and human development bits of educational, based on hand, does not secured no security on the root of low is going down. and actually why,

why is the connection between the 2 that the problem is marginalization of minorities and sometimes a or its inclusion, a creative assessment. uh, then you have also extend the effective as like climate change with your end up with conflicts between they have those of the farmers. and if that's not to manage, it ends up. it's a basic, a conflict. so that happened in the for i didn't have a claimant on legit 100, but she is then using the dish just to sort out the problem to that end up and see 100000 people get. so it is, it is a mismanagement also of natural disaster habiting because of climate. that's one element. you you, you said earlier this year we started to see cou data, which we saw it was something in the past. we started to see this phenomena of a strong man. it's something we need to fight back against. how do you fight these

so called strong men who are entrenched in the countries across out africa, protected sometimes by foreign policy, often by criminal games that kill for the sake of it. how. how do you fight back against these? i think young young people are looking at what's having and thoughtful weatherstone . banners. so that for 50 years, encouraged jenna. but she was infection about $430.00 is created for this military organizational. now there's no time off for him to have an army. he committed to the support forces and called him him id. you know, it just hasn't. for him, it is my board fiction and the, the collision center just has an army. his party has the main issue. he had all the stuff which is just kind of just chords. so to use, hit the same kids who grew up on the he's or go to the buys. what volume you this

city for the most a. this is a and b will will give us whole because they will not accept the soldier. they will not accept a tylen need. they will not accept the death of ships and you went to the city to 3, it is now green solution. so then, because the young people would not accept this or just you, you say, you say that you say that, but that's one of the more depressing by products of conflict and back governance is that africans are showing increasing tolerance for the role of military and politics. according to afro barometer report last month, that view is particularly strongly young people, 18 to 35 year old. after a barometer reported that over the last decade, opposition to military rule has declined significantly. now a slim majority, there's a majority, is willing to accept military intervention if elected officials abuse the past, that has to be dangerous for them. of course,

at least it is dangerous. and the problem is you take guinea for example, we have to have as look on the ap using fall off his power. and then trying to day was the constitution someplace the, the, the, the position i'm fed. and that a guy who was the democrat before getting follow didn't power gets to his head. and now being data. when electrical came again, is this guy you understand why people say, oh, as one of the for a good today to for him. so down, know, 3, the supporting committed to the cool happy to get rid of the really a corner of civilian who really up using is the quickest issue. shouldn't end up losing his body if uh yeah, if i can get rid of something. but then, but then the problem is you are, you are replacing the south around was a different, i mean that, that is, it doesn't look like that. that's why i,

i us be, we'll need to live that there is also a loss to to seek z for of a bad z that's. it's also important to know what you're going for. and this is that instead of ending up mid, somebody giving me 3 cool again, is that somebody else looks tim, tim, about about the, the, the, the strong men. unfortunately, this is something we can passion of work with only in africa. our guys in africa, lou cut out. i'm lucy or just string, been strong. mean all over the place. you know, and we have probably not states will have delta t last. russia will have china with philippines. what. how many strong men of them? we see this fraction of a strong board is,

is coming back again. one of the best i was, i look at this and say all that is wonderful when it comes to do like, are already about why i cannot be like to look at why cannot be like this is a time for a strong man unfortunately. and we need to wake up to that is not an african phenomenon. it's a global for me. i mean, i'd like to talk back and go back to the bottom of the suspect concussions done at the moment. um, one to the violence according to the un, which should both sides trampling on humanitarian go back in 2010, the new york times bureau chief, east africa reported on how come back in africa had moved from soldier verse a soldier to soldier versus civilian the most domestic, despite, as he said, what bevels with the cause, they were predators. and for them, tara became not just a means, but an end. to what extent is that still the case?

it is, it is unfortunate to paper that a number come with some countries or plastic i'll have seen like a blank was in the list in the last few years. unfortunately, we thought we finished last. it was you who, you know, the disease at a, in the 70 sixties and seventies where every morning we used to have a cool with some living ethnic. we thought that this finished unfortunate is coming back. and something we need to be careful about is send, that gave us an extra is a question. i mean, i know it is, it's today's to say this. but in all honesty, do we need armies in africa? why do we do that? what does the job of the items the item is suppose to protect you on the board? who is it in the applicant category? so i think i don't have applicant categories to, to have any, was between applicant countries. i don't record any why you need the arms who's been though, is this money to get those guys, bags and guns an arrow blades when i want the one to come on to that and yeah,

i'm in a moment to, to i, i just, i don't think we need it, it is all nice and those guys has been goals as many of them. and then they come much with us with the copy that. i mean, what is this last week? so does government told the un human rights council that it was basically none of the u. n's business? what was happening inside 2000 was an internal affair. they said, and the student is armed forces. so of course of launched attacks. and this strikes intensely populated subsidiaries in the capital, as you said, they were simply doing their constitutional duty. what do you say to a government like that? does it make you angry? but the hobby bombing its own people in the capital is just doing its constituted. but that's not the government, that's not that's not the shipment. what causes those guys? government? it's the only government they have. i just it always people just took it by paula. by guns. yeah, no, to lift it down. no, to drive look at it, but yeah, i mean those guys just, you know, making. busy a lot of shows in general,

those on the f i live or things act announcing this while the african states, the data applique on union actually is, is, is suspended. so then that's it, that's all they've done. what else comes they do? what is the problem is applicant here and it hasn't. well, just on the bottom me for a long time in which i just started the force of the africa. you any action be finite and should be on, then it is able to go and deal with all of those claim and as a terrorist and whatever, unfortunately, africa internet hasn't, hasn't good. it has plenty of good you. the technicians doesn't to but the 2003 and i saw the amount of power. what happens asylums with guns by one and 220. yes. what happens? what? what about the sort of the concepts? so there's a plastic on, you know, what about security? because what it is, including accounts, i think a lot of people have forgotten about the square to cause is defined by the veto is of the 5 comes, i guess, is finalized with the whole bubbly order is in a mess. the whole public, the whole or the whole world of this, you know,

or the global instruction. i miss you quoted accounts. it is important. cannot do anything. yeah. for can you help me? because this doesn't have the means to accept it. they've had all the extra bliss. i think he's more of the wage which included the codes have kind of even thing. so we're not seeing much of that. that's where i saw it on the sidebar. this is that did it. and finish incidentally, that we had the confidence 2 weeks ago, i had most of our keywords or now guys in the conference and it was clear what the stand ones you want to do at that. if it's your village come sit down to see what i can look even expressed on obedient and what's going on for them. shift for you have access all over the come to the you. have you talk to either of the generals that are causing this concept to sit down at the moment? no, i, i don't have enough common ground even to start the conversation. i believe was guys of goodness the shouldn't i've been to take will they?

if i to i hold. ready i hope so. what's the, what's the chance of? it was one day. it would come one day look. but she had ended up in prison. i literally said, oh, what, but she unnecessary. nobody could touch him. he wasn't prison. so what happened to me, i'm afraid that is not what happens, the african quotes pushing for african solutions and offering african accountability by what happened to that i thought from guinea and central african republic, where the trial i think it is important to support the i. c, c, i o projected to there is an attempt to replace ices. he was an advocate court. so i don't think that was the right decision actually. and again, you look at the weight that quote was good, you too, which is which is cannot. it cannot. but it's cute but is it is yes, i came on cells in the other 2 for me. exactly. sure. so i, as i said, why is i? yeah, is this going to end up really persecuting taxi drivers and official men,

but the not my courts can do that. why really special court? it, it just it city. it just some but is once a protective sense from vice. you see? and that was a bundle of what to do a i'm sorry about that. so then no quick fixes for this was done that's going on and it will spread to the region. so maybe spread to west stuff. what has that? what about south to down? is that next? okay, is it a different institution so that i've come to it, but i think we cannot give up until then. we'll have to deal with it quickly before the fire splits. fluid was all these will continue to hold. what i mean as it is very encouraging to see united states is involved. so you gotta be as involved, both of them phantom shows up the ethnic i do and you have this in volume and yeah, it does involve the cost is invalid. so our messages, yeah,

most of those guys would have to be conference in there will be our foundation. i noticed as guys was there and the message to everybody is we need to speak with one voice now or the other voice or the nearby cancer. this was one voice, and we need to ensure that we would this fire out, we need to buy and any x, most of our to the division and what they ask. and we need to to be able to look. either we have or we're going to go off to you. so you talked earlier about foreign armies being in african countries. i think there are 13 for an armies actually at the moment in various african countries. how healthy do you think it is for africans to, to welcome in rushes. most of the group of course, have 5 of the, for instance, victorious in ukraine and not expanding its footprint across from tops of students that unacceptable. and you'll notice who invited them many of the ships

in the number of western countries. this being comes to nation, that some african countries have been ambivalent to in the case of south africa, mutual over russia's invasion of ukraine. is this payback for the west for the, for the wrongs of the colonial era is that while i know the rule is the colonial ear templates be fact judge illusion. america is usually called for the a, a good gaming, the violation of the silver and t. but why does that consist of you create of your claim? and maybe after can be was head, excuse me. what did america do? any of that was that was that not breach of security? so for the other countries. so why did they condemn both?

but from us to woods, this is a new shift for what was a little bit media on the lice. i think you had mentioned have was the sort of a new issue on because your money objected to the invasion of that. but is long for us to what is it as a new shot? because any excuse me, you have him to correct that is neutral, really the size, the as it is kind of use your boy. i, that is it, is i the collection of rules or those you give me. and out of that, it was only applies to russia. look us, let's look be hey, book this is appropriate. this is to a problem. we need to look at the met or sometimes i'm the relies. what do we say and what you do? what happens in libya would on brooks is company we never would you to be able to get is that acceptable? what do you make? look, i'm not going to be honest. i'm dealing with this stuff. so it's not like the width

is in the why it on or romantic? nobody side. okay, so, so don't lift. you don't lift, you have other people and say, you look icon them. and i think it is a problem is i'll acceptable for russia to video created. and there's no question, but in the same place, i have called the american invasion of, of that act. because this is, is equivalence. and we need to remember that, i just hope that people, when you talk about the natural rules, you should applies to everybody, you know, exceptionally while we bring. what do you make of america's charge? last week that south africa had loaded onto a sanctioned russian fighter. if you make of that child i, i'm really confused. exactly as to why the best level of these

guys as well. we only have south africa's version. so saying he apologized that he did not know what was your tell? he didn't apologize in public. oh, i saw a guy who wrote that in bbc website actually that he didn't, i know south africa says he apologize to that but, but then they denied the judge. but when it, when they did denied, the wording was on big us. they said we didn't approve any arms to russia. it wasn't sanctioned or approved by us. i suggest that was something to some place that i paid with would i'm afraid that south africa has a number of issues i think. and where is easy? where is the government? i think in c, broberg we is losing it's, it's a grip on power effectively as it some somewhere today that is possible. is that to

them of was that even though that we have of what happened. they cannot admit that because they say ok, this is stead of what if he's at with i'd say the light is also terrible of that medical group. what's wrong with those? no medical reports now more accurately done before. uh i mean, drink act. it has a web as of mazda, of a section on the, which is to kim, could i be actually budgeting throat in the world? the amenities have been very accurate and i bought it. so i did it. so it's not. and i don't know what does to, so what happened death. but i notice danger to innovation of governance in south africa was big public about this. right? in the time we have last we took to learn about what african countries have or

haven't done. what do you, what the west fate briefly, what do you want? the west to 5. i think i think the west need 3 the do we have in a much with our way, look at what is happening here. go with kim. i don't have the problem. all you, it'll be under the last 20. you'll be at least i think at least that was signed and that's out of published in 50. nobody see if i'm this able to what do you see if i click on the support we need to $100000000.00, which is it? and then nothing happens. good with but no the, it's nothing done. then we will hold, holding coffee next to the nationalist and this other seeing the guys even our had surfaced the supports, nothing. okay. and that was the, the bad behavior tv, but at this job, because then then let's see if i'm this everybody see if they know of that. so

right. know and gauge now for the same as i know it's after the left for the summit . 60 you africa. so yeah, that's what this you have to confirm. it was good it, but you can see the different more. that's very important. look at the after got that. so there's no cover it $2300.00. out of said yes, everyone gentlemen, in america, us, an inflicting auto seen is $23.00 young dollars for going to go north of there's a new money. it's okay. and now does it say, what is happening when you create has a problem? when greece has a financial problem, the bank immediately searches out. now what's happening in zambia, what's happening instead of going to years? does it act as you want them to close it out? and you want them to come down also on the list it cash. and this is financial loss

is a $100000000000.00, a $100000000000.00. they get most living on advocate will wisdom companies like united pricing and the best pricing and broke it down? you know, a lot of shifting and they know that i'm sick, i just want you to act. and so with these really the bits i'll be heavy and for my friends and the list. so it is a bit out of. when did all of them who did have a bit of financial institution? because these financial institution, i'm not sad of in this house that dominated by wisdom most do know some ideas on the boards it's, it's a, there's no voice in the board decision institutions from the guys and supposed to be the customer to decline. so this of this balance, that's why these banks would focus on greece or focusing and your grid, right? but so the lack of where to submit to the board that doesn't know what is,

what does that be a small even we run out of time. thank you. very much in the dining room complex, i'm going to give you his tax. in the,

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