in. 2 2 should. 2 2 humans close to a chimpanzee in santa chimpanzee is even to a dog. the dog here series about our complex relationship with animals. watch now on youtube, dw documentary, the as with so many african come fix. the latest fighting into don has brought death misery to huge numbers of civilians. this time even the un has been shocked by what zip code the unprecedented speed of this integration. whatever happens to africa's loan of promise to silence the guns, but we bring him 6 ounces to such questions. these are suit, denise born bridges, billionaire, for the foundation, the researches africa's problems and rewards. those who try to solve them. fuzzy ever lose faith in africa. that feedbacks in some countries, unfortunately,

one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for one of the core of africa's problems. he says, is that governance from why is it still so prevalent? how was it that african leaders voted themselves immunity from prosecution to the most serious crimes and what's behind the refused or some states to condemn most goes invasion of ukraine. is it paid back for the rows of colonial occupies but we bring himself most welcome to conflicts of thanks to us. you've tried so many years to promote that governance in africa, in some countries you've had some success, but the violence never seems to go away. in sudan, the country of your bus decades of fighting another killing has become again an honest how personal is this conflict to you?

is the very best at stan at work. and i will be able to have that i've done this. and what we have here is to size this fighting a button in, in our carpet. this is side once power and was power comes financial resources. it's still a blessed story. and this is story of photos. yes, i made it to the cause is essentially old story unfortunately. and enough is enough for all those guys, despite the treasures by both sides to respect humanitarian principles, that hasn't been the slightest effort to avoid civilian casualties. why is that? they don't care? absolutely. i don't see the shift each of them think they can. somehow when this don't, they cannot be

a we're not here to kind of deal with not only who is us ever this find this losing do so that these people are losing the little infrastructure we have is being destroyed, detective really isn't a mess. and most civilians are buying the soldiers. it's, it is, it is very sad. do you ever lose faith in africa? no. despite to this, that's going to get. that's one can 3 out of 54 guns according to the index in the last over the last 10 years. you know, we produce an index. somebody have governance in africa as the majority of episodes of applicants living in a bit of government countries that 10 years ago. so are moving forward. that's it backs in some countries. unfortunately, one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for what but this conflict is you've also said is taking place against the

really dismal tapestry of backsliding. democracy as the number of states, bad governments. you've quoted africa's own goal. and you said we are responsible for how much of africa shows your sense of responsibility for this. we okay. this, the funding governor, governor society. i bought a number of, of, of deliverables. one of them, of course, is human rice delivery about submission, etc. i don't know about digital corner me then easy, human developments and those rules security and the picture. the bishop is really mix. yes. to course, over the last 2 years, africa made the point of progress in the area of infrastructure and human development bits of educational, based on hand, but non secured, no security ever heard of little is going down. and actually why,

why is the connection between the 2 that the problem is marginalization of minorities and sometimes a, it's, it's inclusion, a creative assessment. uh. then you have also extend the effective as like climate change with your end up with conflicts between they have those of the farmers. and if that's not to manage, it ends up. it's a basic, a conflict. so that happened in the for i didn't have a claimant on legitimate, but she is then using the dish just to sort out the problem that end up and see 100000 people get. so it is, it, is, it mismanagement also of natural disaster habiting because of climate. that's one element you, you said earlier this year we started to see cou data, which we saw it was something in the past. we started to see this phenomena of a strong man. it's something we need to fight back against. how do you fight these

so called strong men who are entrenched in the countries across out africa, protected sometimes by foreign policy, often by criminal games that kill for the sake of it. how. how do you fight back against these? i think the young young people are looking at what's happening and custom weatherstone. banners. so that for the test, he is in today's shed general, but she was infection about $430.00 is created for this military organizational route. and there's no time off for him to have an army. he committed to the support forces and called him him id. you know, it just hasn't for him, it is my board fiction and the, the collision center just has an army. his party has him an issue. he had ordered the stuff, which is just kind of kind of just course. so to use hit the same kids who grew up

on the he's or those are the guys were dying of the city for the most a. this is a and b will will give us whole because they will not accept the soldier. they will not accept a tyler and he will not accept the death of ships and you went to the city to 3, it is now green solution. so then, because the young people would not accept this or just you, you say, you say that you say that, but that's one of the more depressing by products of conflict and back governance is that africans are showing increasing tolerance for the role of military and politics. according to afro barometer report last month, that view is particularly strongly young people, 18 to 35 year old. after a barometer reported that over the last decade, opposition to military rule has declined significantly. now a slim majority, there's a majority, is willing to accept military intervention if elected officials abuse that pass. that has to be dangerous for them. of course,

at least it is dangerous. and the problem is you take guinea for example, we have to have as book on the abusing fall off his power and then trying to j was the constitution someplace the, the, the, the position. i'm fed and a guy who was the democrat before getting follow then power gets to his head and now being def data. when electrical care, my game is guy, you understand why people say, oh, as one of the fruit goods they do for him. so don't know to be the supporting somebody to the cool, happy to get rid of the really a quarter of a civilian who really abuses a constituent and that losing his body if uh yeah, its spectrum gets rid of something. but then, but then the problem is you are, you are replacing, the south down was a different, i mean that, that is,

it doesn't work like that. that's why i, i, us, people need to live that there is lives in los, to to seek the 4 of the bad z that's. it's also important to know what you're going for. and this is that instead of ending up mid support, usability. cool again, is that somebody else but the tim, tim, about about the, the, the, the strong man. unfortunately, this is something we can passion about. look only in africa. our guys in africa look at out. i'm do see or just thing mean strong mean all over the place. you know, and we have promptly, not states will have delta t last, russia will have china we had for the beans. what, how many strong men are then? we see this fraction of a song people is, is coming back again. what about this?

i was, i look at this and say all that is wonderful when it comes to do like, are already about why i cannot be like to order the again, why cannot be like this is a painful, strong man, unfortunately. and we need to wake up to that is not an african phenomenon. it's a global phenomena. i'd like to talk back and go back to the bottom of this has taken precedence done at the moment um one to the violence according to the un, which should both sides trampling on humanitarian. now, back in 2010, the new york times bureau chief, east africa reported on how come back in africa had moved from soldier verse a soldier to soldier versus civilian the most domestic despite, as he said, what bevels with the cost table predators. and for them, tara became not just a means, but an end. to what extent is that still it is. it is unfortunately paper that

a number come with some countries or plastic i'll have seen like a blank was in the list in the last few years. unfortunately, we thought we finished, i'm thought that was you. cool. you know the disease at a, in the 70 sixties and seventies, where every morning we used to have a coup with some living ethnic. we thought that this finished unfortunate is coming back and something we need to be careful about this, then that gives us an extra is a question. i mean, i know it is, is today's to say this, but in all honesty, do we need armies elastic? why do we do that? what does the job of the items the items suppose to protect you on the board? that who is it and the applicant can to be? so i think that most of applicant can these 2 don't have any, was it between african countries? i don't recall any why you need the arms who's been though, is this money to get those guys, bags and guns an arrow blades when i want the one to come on to that and yeah,

i'm in a moment to, to i, i just, i don't think we need it, it is all nice and those guys has been goals as many of them. and then they come much with us with the copy that. i mean, what's his last week? so those government told the un human rights council that it was basically none of the u. n's business. what was happening inside 2000 was an internal affairs, they said, and the student is armed forces. so of course of launched attacks. and this strikes intensely populated subsidiaries in the capital, as you said, they were simply doing their constitutional duty. what do you say to a government like that? does it make you angry for the hobby bombing its own people in the capital is just doing its constitution, but that is not the government. that's not, that's not the shipment. what causes those guys government? it's the only government they have. the address is people just took it by paula by guns. yeah. look you lifted that no to dive, look at it, but yeah, i mean, those guy is just, you know, making. busy a lot of shows in general,

those on the f i live or things acting, bouncing this wiles, of african states. that application union actually is, is, is suspended. so then that's it. that's all they've done. what else comes they do? what as the problem is applicant here and it hasn't well, just on the bottom me for a long time, english at this time, the force of the african union actually be finite and should be on then it is able to go and deal with all of those claim and as of categories and whatever, unfortunately, actually comes in and it hasn't been has included. she has plenty of good. you, the tensions doesn't fit, but it doesn't realize all the amount of power. what. what, what happens assignments with guns by one and 220. yes. what happens, what, what about 6, what is the concepts? so get the plastic. i know what i want to go to because what it is including accounts. i think a lot of people have forgotten about the square to cause is defined by the veto is of the 5 comes, i guess, is for her lice. but what is the whole bubbly order is an m. s. the whole

probably the whole or the whole world of this, you know, all these global instructions. i miss you quoted accounts. it is important. cannot do anything. yeah. for can you the dfcs doesn't have the means to look. so they've had all the extra bliss. i think he's more of the wage which included the accounts of kind of even the so we're not seeing much of that. as far as i know that's the, this is that did it. and finish incidentally, that we had to come for us 2 weeks ago and we had most of our keywords or now guys in the conference and just clear what the stand ones they want to do at that. if it's, if it comes to kind of to see what i can look, even expressed on obedience and what's going on for them. shift for you have access all over the come to do you. have you talk to either the generals that are causing this contract and so down at the moment i know i, i don't have enough common ground even to start the conversation. i believe was those guys have given us the should end up in to take?

will they of i to i hold of it, i hope so. what's the, what's the chance of? it was one day it would come one day look, but she ended up in prison. i'd be able to sit all what but, but she understood, nobody can touch him. he was in prison, so it happened to, i'm afraid that is not what happens, the african quotes pushing for african solutions and offering african accountability by what happened to that i thought from guinea and central african republic, where the trial, i think, is important to support the i c, c i o projected to there is an attempt to replace icy without an applicant court. i don't think that was the right decision. actually it's and again you look at the way that quote is good to georgia which is cannot, it cannot, but it's cute but is it is yes. very good. so community for me. exactly. sure. so i, as i said july, as i yeah. is this going to end up really was getting taxi drivers and

official men, but the not my courts can do that. why was this special court? it's, it's, it just, it's city. it just some visits wants to executive sense from vice receipts. and that was a bundle of what to do a i'm sorry about that. so then no quick fixes for this was done that's going on and it will spread to the region. so maybe spread to west stuff for has that. what about south? so don, is that next? okay, is it a different institution so that i've come to it, but i think we cannot give up, then we'll have to deal with it quickly before the fire splits. fluid was all these will continue to hold. what i mean as it is very encouraging to see united states is involved. so you gotta be as involved, both of them phantom shows something, i think i do and you have this in volume and yeah, it does involve the cost is invalid. so our messages, yeah,

most of those guys would have to be conference in there will be our foundation. i noticed as guys was there and the message to everybody is we need to speak with one voice now or the other voice or do you never can. so this was one voice. and we need to ensure that we would this fire out, we need to buy and any x most of our to the division of death. and we need to, to be able to look either we have or we're going to go off to you to you to util, telling me about foreign armies being in african countries. i think there are 13 foreign armies actually at the moment in various african countries. how healthy do you think it is for africans to, to welcome in rushes less than the group? of course, um, 5 minute for instance, notorious in ukraine and not expanding its footprint across from tops of students that are acceptable. and you'll notice who invited them many of the ships

in the number of western countries. this being comes to nation, that some african countries have been ambivalent to, in the case of south africa, mutual over russia's invasion of ukraine. is this payback for the west for them, for the wrongs of the colonial era is that while i know the rule is the colona, the deputy to be fact judge illusion. america is usually called for the a, a good gaming, the violation of the silver and see what it is i can see of you create of your claim and maybe applicant people's head. excuse me. what did america do? any of that was that was that not breach? of security. so for the other countries. so why did they cut them both in a 2nd,

but from us to woods? this is a solution for what was a little bit media on the lice. i think you had mentioned how was this, what is your wish and because your money objected to the invasion of that act, what is wrong for us to what is it as usual? because any excuse me, you have cable, correct? that is neutral. really the size of the, as it is kind of use your boy i, that is it, is i the collection of rules or those you give me out of that. it was only applies to russia. look us this look, be hey, book this is appropriate. this is the problem we need to look at the middle or sometimes and the relies. what can we say and what you do? what happens in libya, would then blogs is category. we never put it together, but again, it says accepted what, what do you make? look, i, i, let's, let's be honest,

i'm dealing with this stuff. so it's not like the width is in the why it on or romantic? nobody side. okay. so, so don't lift, you don't lift, you have other people and say, you look icon them and i think it is a probably is unacceptable for russia to evade euclid. and there's no question back in the samples. i'll call them american invasion of, of that because this is, is equivalence. and we need to remember that i just hope that people, when you talk about the natural rules, this applies to everybody, you know, exceptionally is what we bring. what do you make of america's charge? last week that south africa had loaded onto a sanctioned russian fighter. if you make of that child i, i'm really confused. exactly as to why the bus that i will

just as well. we only have south africa's versions. so saying, he apologized that he didn't know what was your tell, he didn't apologize in public. oh, i saw a guy who wrote that in bbc website actually that he didn't like know south africa says he apologize to that but, but then they denied the judge. but when it, when they did denied, the wording was on big us. they said we didn't approve any arms to russia. it wasn't sanctioned or approved by us. i suggest that was something that took place that i paid with would. i'm afraid that sales advocate has a number of issues i think and where is easy? where is the government? i think in c, broberg we is losing it's, it's a grip on power effectively as it some somewhere today that is possible is that to

them before they even know that we have of what happened. they cannot admit that because they say ok, this is terrible if he's at with i'd say the light is also terrible. i've that made a comfortable song. i was also a medical reports now more accurately done before. uh, i mean, drink act. it has the levels of mazda, of a section on the, which is of the game, obviously actually, but during throwing war, the amenities have been very accurate and they both to so i need to judge not and i don't know what does it to. so what happened death, but i notice digital division of governance in south africa was big public about this. right? in the time we have left, we talked a lot about what african countries have or haven't done. what do you,

what the west to face briefly? what do you want the west to do? 5. i think i think the west need really to we have in a much with that way. look at what is happening here. go with kim. and you'll have to be probably all you to be on the last 20 you'll be at least an applicant, lee that was signed and that was published in 50. nobody save on this ever. what do you see if i think i need support? we need to $100000000.00 budget and then nothing happens. good with, but no the, it's nothing done. then we will hold holding coffee tonight to the nationalist and this other seeing the guides, even our headset, the supports nothing. okay. and that was the, the bad behavior tv, but at this job, because then then let's see if i'm this everybody see if they know that. so right.

know and gauge now for the same as i know it's after we left for the summit, 60 you africa. so yeah, that's what this you have to confirm. it was good it, but you can see the different more. that's very important. look at the after got that. so there's no cover it $23000.00 out of sitting here everywhere. getting money in america, us and, and break it auto seen is $23.00 young dollars for going to go north of there's a new money. it's okay. and now does it say, what is happening when you create has a problem? when greece has a financial problem, the fund will it bank immediately searches out now what's happening in zambia, what's happening instead of the 2 years? does it act and you want them to close that? um and you want them to come down also on the list. it cash,

and this is find the most to do a $100000000000.00 a $100000000000.00 they get most let me not advocate will wisdom companies sunday night and price me back on the best pricing and broke it down. you know, a lot of shifting and you know that i'm sick, i just want you to act. and so with these really the bits of the heavy i'm for my friends and the was really is a bit of what it, all of them who did have a bit of financial institution because these financial institution, i'm not sad of in this house that dominated by wisdom most do know some ideas on the boards, etc. there's no voice in the board decision institutions from the guys and supposed to be the customer to decline. so this of this balance, that's why these banks would focus on greece or focusing on your credit. right? but so the lack of where to submit to the board that doesn't know what is what does

that be a small even we run out of time. thank you very much in the dining room. come fix on that and see if she is. thank you. the

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