it was secret sly behind these discovered benches in 360 degrees and explore fascinating. both heritage selling dw world heritage 360. now, the slow progress in the counter offensive and winter setting in there is a growing number of voices calling for a re think of what the priorities should be in ukraine and how to achieve them on the special edition of conflicts. soon from the berlin foreign policy for i'm, i'm joined by ukraine's ambassador to germany or lexi my task. is ukraine getting closer to being forced to consider tough compromises invested or make a book into conflict? so thank you for me. there's been slow progress in the counter offensive and you're facing a lot of challenges including more fatigue, which we'll talk about. but 1st,

a growing number of voices are looking at the challenges they're calling for, re think of a media priorities and how to achieve them. for example, former nato secretary general and long time paid advisor to ukrainian politicians address. whereas most in has proposed that ukraine join nato, but stripped of the territories occupied by russia. what do you think? well, i think everybody's absolutely correct about the fact that the best security guarantee for you prayed for, for a european country. the gulf today is bumper shift tonight and strong comp. horses. we have seconds, but we don't have a 1st and a tops absolutely clear that in order to, to win this war, we need to return our territories and our people,

which now what is the kind of gets security guarantees for all of your territories . but well, security go to, is it just to liberate for the territories. and then security guarantee, as, as we know, it's uh from uh, from your atlantic security is the membership uh, in nato. so there is no better security guarantee in your up to date for germans dodge weren't more cheques as they to membership and strong problem for so you can consider rest my sense proposal. should nato allies consider the proposal? no, we don't create a way of territories. so no, it's not something that you would consider you know, in the meantime there is the so called kids security packed. these are, you know, intended bilateral security arrangements intended to rage to full nato membership.

d 7 countries have agreed to provide that or bilateral guarantees, but none has done so fully so far. how do you see the prospects for accelerating the bilateral deals? well, the bi electro negotiations are going on with, with a number of, of countries. the 1st round of such consultation between ukraine, germany also took place recently, so we are in the process, and indeed the keeps security compact foresees of those security guarantees on the way of ukraine tonight, while supporting ukraine with weapons, with uh, financial uh, help and uh, to make sure that we can win this war, but again, um, you know, talking about the timing. one of the arguments of rep rasmussen is that time is really of the essence that you can't wait that this maybe needs to happen within the next year or so. and i'd like to highlight one of the reasons for that because you are facing the challenge of shaky support on the political front,

both in the you and the united states. let's begin 1st, you know, here in the you where you are serving as an invested or not all and you countries are back in ukraine anymore. let's have a look. slovakia, once one of your biggest supporters will stop its military aid hungry blocking new e u funding for the war or waiting of course to see the make up of what the government's in the netherlands will be. and what they will do call concerning when you look at the picture in the you is all of this for you. and do you worry that other countries might break away? well look one as diplomats look at what our guys and girls are delivering at the front line. i think it's absolutely possible for us diplomats to deal with respect to the governments which might be skeptical and winning the hearts of minds of people into full additions as well. my job here in germany and to jump with my

colleagues overseas or in hungry and and, and in slovakia i think that europe both today realizes it's, it's power and port and it's role in the international relations. we've been talking today a lot about leadership here of this, this for this is something which i think you ukrainians for fighting this war against the powerful russian army are expecting from leading european countries, for example, from german. well, one thing is the expectation, but the other is, was actually getting delivered. so let's hop across the pond to the united states because us support is also at a critical juncture, biden and defense. secretary austin, have announced more weapons, but getting a packages through congress has been locked. it's been said by the white house that

more than 90 percent of the approved military funding for ukraine has been spent. how risky are these delays in getting additional funding approved for ukraine? and is there the risk that you can start to feel this on the battlefield as well? on one hand? so i'm, i'm, i'm 50, i'm invested to germany and not dealing with the united states. and canada combined that in, in details. but on the other hand, type i absolutely agree with you. if you just think of sex and that every day is spent in this war means those is given hundreds of ukrainian soldiers dying that every day counts. and this assault might be a message to all the decision makers saying in terms not of the territories, but the people of a military and civilians on the russian of

a patient dying every day. and with those sticks being so high again to bring it back to the funding and the political support um, you know, your, your politicians have been saying how vital the support is from your western partners. what happens if donald trump, for, you know, a politician who shares his beliefs, wins the white house next november? because there's within his party, the republicans of local group opposed to further aid to ukraine. it's a real issue with a potential problem for you, isn't it? because i mean, trump has demonstrated an affinity, for example, in russia, and she hasn't always cited with your country has a, as well it's, it's about the american people to decide who will be governing the. what is that fair decision? what if the my decision? what if they decide on him or somebody who's like, well, i'm, i'm, i'm hopefully not the best way to the uh, what was that states, are you great and how are you met repairing for that problem?

i know what, what the americans value was. this is freedom and democracy. this is, these are core american values by the way, also core european values. and i do hope that the role of the support and the united states for this fight for democracy and freedom will also reflect in the results of, of the election. how high do you see the risk that your partners can't keep up? the pace to meet ukraine's needs well, from what i heard from my german colleagues and from what i hear from my fellow colleagues diplomats and domestic souls, ukraine to different countries. the support will not be diminished. and i got a direct calls from my colleagues from the ministry of defense minister for the 1st of, of germany saying guys, we will continue support you and look at the figures in the budget

of the administrative defense of germany for the next year for so for 2 of you, frank, it's dumb and this is the right way to, to approach things. i, i, we, we all, not only our part, this whole face, this problems of, i'm going to sure enough air defense systems because i can count all those systems. and uh, just imagine where if i were uh, kind of chief of stuff where can i place those 5 or 6? uh or a defense system, which we got come from germany, where a place some, some safety of good part, a flock pluck pumps or to to protect critical infrastructure, which has been daily show by russians or protect our troops. this is why our coal is to, to give us the weapons to defend,

defend cities and the trips, and to the defense and for advancing. we need a debt curve. we need a metal tanks and infantry fights we cups and of course are to learn. this is the war which combines features of the world, one with particularly virus and world 3 with immense, if use of drones and official intelligence. we've been hearing from the ukranian administration that one of the biggest priorities has been pushing to increase your own production of weapons and equipment. tell us why is this so important and how quickly can you do it in a meeting full way to really make a difference? well, because we, we, we need to reconsider the way the weapon is being produced. for example, the, the usual delivery of

a air defense system will be supported by the number of rockets which will develop the deliver to the, to the client. so the number of focus which has been delivered in peaceful times we use within one or 2 days. that means that if we get a patriot system for iris team system types of for it must be supplied by a bigger number of rockets. the same is with the tanks and i'm on hold with her how many shells are being sheltered by a hold with her in germany in peaceful times as we do it kind of hundreds a day. and this is a different approach to production system and technologies. and this is why we say an invite the producers of weapon systems from germany, and from all over all over the world to start the r n d and production localization

in ukraine. this is the place where the weapon is needed. so then give us some concrete examples of the types of contracts. indeed that you are hoping to attract and sign, because you're pushing these joint ventures with companies from around the globe to manufacturing ukraine. as you've highlighted, there's a big industry conference in washington next week. would you want to come out of that just briefly? well i, i have seen a list of companies which are be invited from, from what i understand. there's a lot of hopes riding on this be pardon or there's a lot of hopes riding on this particular conference though, isn't there? well, we had a 1st, the def, defense industry for them in ukraine. back in september, the ministry of strategic industries was a part of your brand new and delegation back in october here in berlin, meeting main german companies and we, we can't exclude that sasha by let's row for them with ukranian and german defense

companies will be held later this year or next year, but the 1st company, i think, the 1st company which will open up a repair hub would be a german cup. why? right? why would these companies want to do business in ukraine? because the challenge is, there's some major challenges ramping up domestic production while we're is raging investors in particular. and this has been highlighted as the biggest one. they're concerned about and unreliable legal system and corruption. these of course, are not problems that are easily solved. and the predict, the more when you, when you talk about the, about this with the woodrum business, they 1st the, the think about security security of problems is security of people. uh and uh, well your finance minister has how did the, the corruption and the legal system is what he,

he is hearing of some of the biggest things among these low concerns of this company's been times before. uh there is no a tolerance, 0 tolerance in our population towards the corruption. just imagine every morning ukrainians wake up a look at the reports about the air defense system down in russian rockets and uh, and drones. and uh, just a of sending the money to the armed force of the crate. how those people would accept a science of corruption in the law and in the government sole eradicate and corruption. and we have established in the last 6 years, a highly effective system of counter and corruption, which is by the way, was highly evaluated by the european union in terms of preparing ukraine to grant

us the status of the country to start that goes each. so then tell me, when we look at the defense industry, you have a new defense minister. as of september of his predecessor, he made some big promises because when we're talking about the particular corruption, we have to look at that ministry. there have been allegations of mismanage military contracts. it's really put a stain on the ministry. the former minister who was not personally implicated, he said, when he left office, that he was confident, the ministry would return. prepayments to suppliers that have gone missing. we're talking about about $980000000.00 and weapons contracts that missed their delivery dates at one point this year. some prepayments for weapons and simply vanishing into overseas accounts of weapons sealers can you, can you really guarantee that all of that will be will, will be sorted. well i, i've, i hear it for, for the 1st time about overseas, the accounts and once again,

those are according to reports made to parliament and again, our government and this minister changed the team and introduced. and you may come as a to make sure there is no possibility of for a corruption and look at the interest of the defense companies to step into the business they since early not talking to us about a need, a legal trans or problems or obligations about corruption, they see here no challenges, but opportunities to help us create a future un motor ukraine and armed force. and this is what we need and many of european countries that need that to i'm going to move on now because you know, besides what we have been discussing with regard to corruption, especially in the defense ministry. there are also

a lot of public disagreements that has been gathering attention recently in particular between your presidents and your commander in chief general. but larry physician, a solution, you made this comment saying that the war is that a stalemate. unless you have some sort of massive technological leap to break the deadlock. so let's get very publicly has refuted this such a public display of disagreement between your top general and the president has raised eyebrows including them on your partners in the west. are there cracks and unity at the top? oh no. you know, i just, uh, jumped in uh to uh, to help uh to communicate about your claim for my minister of defense dom up some of the issue i would jump in for uh, for everybody uh from, from my government. uh, of course. uh, it's a, it's a good sign of diplomacy to always speak with, with one voice. this is the most effective way of communication. but still,

this is all sort of, kind of a democracy. you know, we, we've been dealing with a huge problem of trying to persuade people to manage expectation on the credit encounter offensive. so it was kind of big back in march in may and june this year. so we expect ukraine now to, to break through. but then if you come back and we're going to check out that we're going to get to that. but i want to talk about the politics for a 2nd here in the leadership because you know, the landscape further to that appeared to publicly swipe a general solution e reminding of the hierarchy and warning that the country's military leadership should not be entering politics. so those need, when we look at him, is a figure he's a career military officer, he's usually popular. he is seen potentially as a threat to zalinski. if you were to ever choose to enter politics. do you think so,

lensky? scared of that? is that what's really a play here? well, this president zaleski is a man who no one of the side. i don't need the right. i need to be an issue back at the beginning of the war. so if you, if his think ukrainians can be scared by some way of uh, disagreements which uh came to to pablo. you know we, we are not scared by russian rockets and traction trips and of incidents of, of key if there is nothing that can scale your pregnancy and you know this, this is the reality of, of to day. sometimes i think we're working 25 hours a day and the president's

a lensky and channels the illusion. e. c. charter i such a several times. let's just quickly come back to the general solution is comment the substance of it, which was ukraine and rush hour to sell me. do you agree or disagree? uh, we do not see a major advances of your crane and trips and what generals illusion. it also meant that you agree that we have no major advances well defined, major events. yes. we in comparison with what we achieved, right? that sounds like a cell. me. well it's, it's my best stalemate for, for the moment, but it's not 861. the president's office though says that that and i'm paraphrasing here, um this is one of their swipe box, but that essentially plays into the enemy's hands. a discussion place into the gentleman's hands while quite hard, many times lady,

but at a stalemate. but the stalemate is not because we have discussions. the settlement is because we're not, aren't know the stalemate might be for insufficient. the defense might be because we got from, from our partners a bit more than 50 tanks or, or we have 3 irish t, a systems from germany, which is maximum germany could deliver within those 2 years. but as i always say, just plays those 3 systems with uh, with the range of 40 kilometers on the territory of 600000 square kilometers and you crate. this is the reality. so, you know, one of the things that has been raised when you're, when you're talking about that and what's going on in the battlefield is that

ultimately you need more man power as well. it's not just the supplies that are coming in from your western partners and the ones that you were trying to generate on your own. you've had to resort to a draft. the war has been pro long's. it's been said there are limited opportunities for rotation of soldiers on the line of contacts. there are reports, some, some even evading the draft. we understand that lensky is going to get a list of reforms this week about what might be done to improve mobilization. and i'm just wondering in your personal opinion, um, how can you counter war or fatigue and motivate your citizens more for what might be a long war as well in order to understand this, if you need to, to trial into crane. so any time i'm, i'm back home or i corresponding with my, with my friends at the front line, would you crate in soldiers or be trained to your in durham and you were with, with my pardons. there was no such thing as

a fatigue in ukraine. would sometime to tom, i see this fatigue here in germany, but this is not a fatigue from the war, but rather from the media reports about the war. you know, in times where, when, when you are protecting your, your home and your family, you can adjust. so full back and save it's, it's too much for me. there is so much at stake for your brain. it's our democracy . it's, it's our freedom. it's our future. this is what we all fight for your up against the country that has 3 times your population. and time doesn't really seem to be on your side. and i'm just wondering, you know, when you talk to the, the top politicians of your country, you always hear that the goal is to recapture all of ukrainian territory. and that seems pretty steadfast. and i'm wondering just how personal that goal is for you, and whether or not you still think it's realistic,

given all of the challenges that we've been highlighting the soon as you start thinking not about territories, but about people you realize that you need to go to go forward, that's about maintenance and 1000000. so if you crate ends on the occupied territories, who waits for your trade in sol, joe smoking their door and say you're free. we are here and i haven't your credit insights on, on the occupied territories, it's about people. we are fighting for and this is why we need to liberate those work and russian $0.15 in front of me. yes, that's been done. boss. and in the cafeteria to a freshman since february 2022 in the seldom ukraine. there are some that are saying that the prospects of you winning back all of your territory appear to be dwindling and that maybe ukraine should shift focus. i just like to read you

a quote and this is from. so the breedlove retired us air force general and former nato commander. he says the following, this war will and exactly how western policy makers want it to. and the implication there is that it really hinges on the west support is success in some ways out of your hands. do you see that maybe in the next year, the next 2 years depending on what the mood is your your health might be forced. um, i think what, what we are a blessing in many countries is the reading of the rightness to, to lead the word leadership. i heard they want a 100 times and this is exactly what we need leadership to make right things. and to help us to,

to win this war and to fight the freedom and the peace back to your best. ok, thank you so much for joining us on conflicts on thank you. the

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