unreasonable all stuff and what is this nonsense? i want my son to, the doctor joined the clubs. it's time to to and then when generations flash dogs january 14th on the w 2 months. and so the guys of war america is still insisting, as well as killing to many palestinians. but the administration is also on the pressure itself. this time from an unprecedented number of its own officials. the members of the democratic party. a vista by the support for the war. aaron, david miller was a former senior official of the state department. he says the timing is good for the president. if this were playing out in october of 2024, i think it would have a, a very significant impact on what promises to be

a very close election. miller is now in the economy. he endowment for international peace with plenty of experience negotiating with israel and the palestinians. what does he think of his ro, tactics in battle, and what kind of country might emerge from this conflict? and david miller, welcome to come pick zone. again. it's pleasure to be here. thanks for having me. israel risk strategic defeat if it goes on killing civilians at the current rate and gaza. this last week from the us defense secretary lloyd austin was this is close to a public rep for him on those washington will go or is the administration just but you signaling for public consumption ministration. frankly, the rhetoric increasing rhetoric, impatience, frustration with the humanitarian catastrophe. and gaza and the rising number ex financially announced, and in this i think, reflects that the bind, the buying,

the divide mystery. on one hand, the administration of from the get go, is tethered it's a itself, these are of orange which are very ambitious eradication of a mouse is military and infrastructure above and below, around freedom of officers and the killing of at least 2 of the 2 top leaders, our youngest one on a day full plan, the october 7, 7, terre surge, but do take the same time. they're under enormous pressure internally and externally, i think they have signal. do these rallies privately on this issue. nature of time a lot. these rarely is want much you ministration. i'm told privately, as i do, these really is you will have weeks. they are not prepared yet. all right, thing to say that publicly. no american president and i've worked for half a dozen ministration republicans and democrats wants to fight with it is really prime minister chalkboard is messy. it can be politically costly. and frankly, based on my experience with some exceptions and there it can be counter counter

productive. so based on who joe biden is, and the butchery of october 7, i think it's going to take some effort still to move him to the point where these i would term them. i don't think virtually signaling is the right word. i think they're cautionary advisories. they may even be warning. what the real question is, a warning without a cost or consequence is just that. it's a warning and they keep warning, go back, they keep warning, but has it, has israel stop listening to the us? stop listening. i think it's it is my analytical view. it's certainly not pretty, and it's not comforting in terms of the exponential rise in palestinian destined shepherd. it is magical. think magical. think to believe that in area twice the size of the district of columbia with 2300000 people,

2 thirds of home have been been displaced at least once, maybe twice with the population density of anywhere from 18221000 humans per square mile that you can achieve israel's military objectives, particularly how much is embedding in an around under, on top of civilian facilities and populations. and you can achieve those objectives without doing catastrophic car. and that is, and that is priced in now, is it best catastrophic. com as far as israel is concerned, they're gonna keep pushing back against these warnings. i think that these rallies are made a judgment, that in the week of october 7 in the hostages, which is a, an issue with a dynamic that keeps on driving the anger. the resentment of frustration on the part of the mattress is government,

which is the most right wing extremist in the history of the state of israel. the bottom of the top part of the local a part of is really, is generally there's tremendous support for these words. october 7 was the degree of, of watching the israeli palestinian conflict through 2 into fighters through 4 or 5 is really how mosque on jason's several is really lebanese wars were, palestinians were involved this, that level of violence exceeds anything that we've ever witnessed in terms of it's indiscriminate killing, it said isn't explore tally and, and i think this is important and not fully appreciate the i'm just reporting here . so please don't shoot me. the contrast between the government then and those who govern was fundamentally rooted on october 7th. the contracted most israelis make with their government is very simple. we're prepared to agree to mandatory

military service. we're prepared to put our sons and daughters in harm's way with the real possibility that they can be seriously injured or killed by an exchange u, the government guarantee to be extended, humanly possible. our security and our normal, which had failed to do, which it has collectively failed to do. and i think that dynamic influence is, i know he's really don't like the notion of the term vengeance intervention. but i cannot believe if you are a member of these really intelligence establishment. i'm interviewing next week, both former head of should bed and the former head of most john, if you are a member of the intelligence community or these really military, this sense of guilt for what you failed to anticipate and operationally,

what you failed, how you failed to respond for as many as 12 hours. once the terror search began. i can cannot help but effect influence and drive the determination of these relays . if you asked me or are they prioritizing the lives of the rooms, soldiers over the lives of palestinian civilians in garza the last almost 2 months now. i think tomorrow is the 2nd month beginning the 2nd month of this conflict. the answers are, of course, they are, like most military and i, i, i, i, i pressed military american military experts, folks who actually been involved, david trey is in lieu john mosul. nobody has come up with an answer to the problem with how you do what these really want to do without endangering the

population. the answer is, i guess he's really should not be doing what they're doing then. then you end up with a i don't even know how to a conundrum. i don't know how these really operate with every single searchable backlash and there is considerable backlash among political appointees last month, 500 political point. ease of the bite and administration, representing around 40 government agencies, wrote to the president to protest at his support for israel in the war. i wanted to ask you how rare it is, but so many people were moved to object on a key foreign policy issue. yes, press enter. my i will say i worked in the pharmacy for 25 years for half a dozen ministrations republicans and democrats. i was not in government during the vietnam, but i must say, i have never ever seen a degree of internal turmoil member. we don't have many resignation,

so we're not talking about us nami, of protests that we do, resignations, another matter for civil servants, certainly a political appointee to consider resigning over principal lab takes a lot of courage to do without seeing there. but we are seeing it on the staff level congress, the white house department of state usa, i. d. not to mention the public pressure on their progressive democrats or bringing even mainstream democrats or bring if this, if this were playing out in october of 2024. i think it would have a very, a significant impact on what promises to be a very close election and it might still have that impact. i mean, we are, we are only a year away from the presidential election. right. oh, you know, i have to remind myself, sometimes in american politics that here is still an attorney, the any number of other issues are going to be higher on the minds of the

republican and democratic voters and independence like the economy, for example, well, the economy. so i'm not prepared to make a declarative. i just don't think we know and that's, that's a good conclusion. i think that people will follow american politics and the granular level. i do not. oh, would probably tell you was, well, we just, we just don't know, but if you freeze framed it right now, i can't imagine young american voters, air of americans, michigan, critically important state dearborn, the anger, the frustration is passed and it's not just directed against these railways i mean, it all that up and more morse and do involves too much darker sort of dimensions. why can't i say i'm, it isn't. it's also angry at the administration. and this, this is what's moving. i think at least the public mood. i need those operation

with some of the whatever the administration has or hasn't done to come concerns in its own ranks about it's israel policy, there appears to be a huge gulf in the us and is really visions of the future. just a few days ago. we had cobbler harris, the vice president directly addressing israel's talk of creating a security buffer zone between guys in israel. the us would not permit, she said, not permit the redrawing of the board as of gaza. is that just more tough talk or is there is now looking like an immovable red line for washington? well, you know, the administration has been clear in the numerator and for what i call the 4 or 5 know is related to post construct. guys. guys will not be used as a platform to launch chair that we know forced relocation of the population that we know reduction in territory. garza in the west bank constitute a storage unit. and i'm presumptive notion that, that a 2 state solution,

which is the administration you how this should all land um is still very current. i think there's a merging between the ministrations notion of there should be no reduction of territory. and israel's intention, we don't know, you know, not even pippi of york or delphi reading the best of coating trails. could tell you, tell me right now how this is going to. and the one thing is unmistakably clear to me. they'll be know, mission accomplished, sort of speech on the part of these early defense forces, and then they're leaving god with no transitional mechanism. to guarantee a mazda is resurgence pertaining resurgence, there will be as longest residual as long as they know mazda elements. i suspect they will continue to operate and pose how fundamental problem i can say, but these rid of these are not simply going to pull out what they're going to do is,

is to create and they will try to assure the administration that this is simply a function of a transitional issue until some sort of mechanism can be worked out and maintain whatever it is whenever you're, you know, you're magical thinking of it does, your is an error to turn force hardly likely in international force is a possibility. us is that already said his are contributing to him, forces with britain and france, contribute forces. so when come comma harris says, we want to see a unified west bank and gaza on the palestinian authority and palestinian voices and aspirations must be at the center of this what? it's not going to happen, visit it at least as far as israel is concerned. let's be clear, we haven't even talked about the impact of this on on is really politics. the average length of it is really government since independence is one point. 8 years this december, mr. newton. yeah,

i was government most stream right wing supremacy is taught homer for big government in the history of the state of israel, which is one year or more. i don't want like making predictions. i don't think there is a mechanism right now to remove benjamin. nothing. now is own party does not have a history of devouring its own. and each from our bank of year and this allows mode rich. the tooth stream is ministers. see god frankly, as a positive distraction for them to carry out their jewelry, carry out their policy. just try and do an extra westbank and every every but name only. you cannot create a stable situation and god long link it to the pursuit of a, a, a meaningful negotiations. and 2 state solution with this is really got a full stop. there has to be a political reckoning. there will be in $73.00 after until october 6, 7 was the greatest intelligence failure in the history of the states. there was a state commission of inquiry in our report was fire fire maybe 8 months after the

war did not identify the my here government or my here in particular as having responsibility. but she was forced to reside under, in, under, of prep hold. but it, it, it undermined greg's credulity to the breaking point to believe that a year from now benjamin at. anyhow, we'll still be heading this particular government, but there is in that critical year. this is why it's so important between now and november of 2024. this is the period where the administration needs to have a policy toward what to do in gaza and how to link it. how that tethered to the pursuit of a political rise and serious political arise based on 2 states. i know people said that 2 states solutions gone the way of the dodo. i do not believe that this crisis has demonstrated 1. 1 thing was terrified clarity to me, and that is,

there is absolutely no way is realism, palestinians are going live happily ever after, in one house, either in one state solution or a by natural state. it makes no sense. they are going to have to separate through negotiations. that's the key into something that approximates to states with border security, jerusalem, refugees, end of conflict at all, claims on the table negotiated seriously. i would, i would argue if us, per be a good, honest broker, effective mediator. it's not saying it's not seen as an honest broker in the products among palestinians as well. is it a meanwhile, israel continues ignoring demands from the white house. isn't america going to stop looking pretty? we come in to national stage when it comes to this real, the gap between our words in our deeds have always been more or less grand canyon. i mean,

i haven't been time. you're familiar with 1956 as of mine i as an hour threatening sanctions, is really did not withdraw from china. they did ronald reagan, delayed delivery invest exchange over his rows of extension of administrative law. i'm going to go on the tools. there are tools that washington can use basis, my own view isn't what they must do. as you said, a frame, a public referential frame that puts the united states clearly unequivocally and publicly on the record as saying exactly what it believes needs to evolve. i don't think this is going to be a, an issue for a 1st turn by the administration. we're going to be running out of time. but if the president is re elected, you could see a serious effort. in the 2nd term you're going to need leadership is really is not

capable right now of entering into any serious negotiation with this government and the palestinian boss now in the 19th year before year term with no credibility to cancel elections in 2021. also is not capable to making those sorts of decisions so that that's the problem. in your view, to what extent does washington have to distance itself from the more controversial methods that as well as employed on the bathroom feel? i mean, versus where are you on the accusations that israel has imposed collective punishments on the people of gaza? well, i think the blockade, which was the 1st at the ease really just took in the wake of the terror serge on october 7, could easily be interpreted as their new shoes of distinction, proportionality, which the 2 key legal concepts of international humanitarian law. i think there's

no doubt you have to be detached from reality driving or a conclusion that these is really rules of engagement have expanded. how could, how could they not, even if you don't fully matches of palestinian ministry of health stat. and by the way, i learn for the 1st time today that those, those figures include not just civilians but come back, you know, distinction made between the 2. but even if you believe those are inflated significantly, that's that $15000.00 including $5000.00 or most fighters, these really claim they kill. you're talking about an export that an exponential rise in bellas, jeanine, das, which is extraordinary. do you think the bite and the ministration is afraid of criticizing israel? remember what happened to jimmy carter? he was pilloried. most of those to be when he talked about the criticism of the condition and they occupied territories was never jimmy carter was a and

a nurse respect for courier in terms there would have been no egyptian drawing peach tree without jimmy carter for joe. mike is not jimmy car. joe, mine is a loan among american present. a guy who is preacher naturally has run throughout most of his career, all those career choices original. he considers himself literally part and parcel of these released their story and he's dealt with every label. every is what is really lead to for decades. no, nobody has 2nd did not in terms of his support for his question is can that support be used to have not just to have the uncomfortable conversations, but at some point to basically say to benjamin isn't yeah. what else? because it's harming america's reputation as well. by standing close to an ally that is doing the things that nothing yahoo is doing. i think that certainly the, the key consideration on the part of part of these really is whether or not is this

administration has reached a conclusion that my proposition, that it's magical thinking to believe that israel kind of jewish subjected without a reeking tremendous harm under college senior population, whether that be that's no big deal. i don't know. i do, i do think this, however, it would be no hostage releases without drove by. it would be no humanitarian a into god without job i. there's no question about that. and there isn't that much any way, is there? well, we need more. and over the last 48 hours, again, my understanding administration under enormous pressure from the administration has agreed even as their operational tempo picks up in the south to increase in the amount of humanitarian assistance, but no amount of a man at tearing assistance that is being allowed and could even begin to deal with the humanitarian catastrophe that's occurring in winter's coming. and i just,

i mean i, i don't know how to reconcile these 2 things to you. i mean, i, i really don't, i don't know if i mean, if i were part of this administration, i'm not sure what i would advise and whether or not that advice would be taken seriously because i do not do not see. and i think this is part of the problem why the administration lacks leverage. it cannot offer to these riddles a compelling, the old turn it is to how to accomplish it's an errand to which and, and drop by the doors. those words that october 10th speech, which set the stage swift, comprehensive, and decisive, think those were the 3 words at the present use. to say, that's how america would approach this problem. if what happened to israel on october 7 had happened to the united states. swift, comprehensive, and decisive?

i, i don't, i don't have an answer for you, which i readily admitted. maybe i'm not smart enough. i just don't see how you do this. that means that at some point, administration may say no, i don't know how long it was. you would take these rarely to accomplish their objectives or if in fact they can accomplish them at all. what kind of israel do you think is gonna emerge from this war? we're seeing continued violent spite settlers against palestinians in the west bank . no move to whole that despite biden's warning that it must stop, there are also reports of arrest, job losses and interrogations. for those who dissent from the war, what kind of country very briefly, do you think as well as becoming you know, well becoming, uh, did you just, you overall, the only good news about this free of horrors is the fact that you, different little draw is get that benjamin the now and is extreme,

is ministers efforts to rearrange the political furniture and israel and to basically make majority rule with no projection of minorities. the, the order of the day is fair. and those 41 weeks have convinced me. i do not know another country certainly would not have been here. spite our democratic system for 40 plus weeks, hundreds of thousands of israelis are in the streets pushing for the kind of israel that they want. a human is liberal democratic israel. admittedly, the occupation figures prominently and presents all kinds of contradiction to that image. but i think the majority of people in that, in that small country with 10, almost $10000000.00 people to $1000000.00 to any citizens of israel. what that kind

division for their country. and i am persuaded that this crisis, even though many military crises are led to a, even a further right wing drift. i think you're going to get out of this eventually and it's not going to be a less lift. the federal government and it will be a right a right is government. will it be center, right? will it be responsible? will it be willing to face the reality that there could be no real security without a diplomatic political solution to these really published any conflict in any of these really occupation? i would like to think that is the case and david miller, we could go on for much longer, but we've run out of time. thank you so much for being on the program. good to see you. ever, jim. you too. take care. thank you. by the,

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this is dw news live from berlin. israel's defense minister lays out his vision for a post tomorrow because of strep. us colanda says that palestinians would be in charge after her mazda is defeated, and he says that there was no faith. there would be no is really settlers in the territory. also coming up rescue prose in japan, keep up the search for survivors of the devastating new york state earthquake. but the chances of finding people alive are fading and northern germany struggles with days of flooding that could get worse as flood barriers threatened to collapse, the.