the young people clearly have the solution. the future is 77 percent. every weekend on dw, the 3 months ago israel became the target of an unprecedented terror attack. the terrorist group of moss went on a killing spree. october 7th, became the deadliest day for jews since the whole. the cost on today of the international court of justice is real, was accused of genocide, of trying to exterminate the palestinians in gauze of israel says that the claim is baseless tonight is real. a country at more now, on trial, i broke off in berlin. this is the day the

israel has suggested god to what has been described as one of the heaviest, conventional bombing campaigns in the history of modern will fit. is it all, you have a genocide? i intend against the palestinians because there's nothing more pro system preposterous than the most out of propaganda. it is not as committing genocide, it's from us. and here is the nation that prides itself on being the anti racist nation. giving legal support to how much the the, how this product responsibility and their actions. we'd be just biased also coming up toxic politics, deepening division. a new government is getting to work in warsaw and supporters and those behind that the former government or clashing over. he stands for the real poland, to our service,

the i used to fall asleep in poland and knew i would wake up in poland. now i go to bed and i feel like i'm waking up in a foreign country. let's do our viewers watching on tv as in the united states in to all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today with the case for and against genocide, the international court of justice in the hague. today, media and hearing why south africa is accusing is real, a genocide against the people in gossip on tomorrow friday. israel will begin telling the court why that charge is deplorable and baseless by minister benjamin netanyahu has already called it a twisted world, praising these really military calling it the most moral army on the planet or south africa sees it differently, pointing to numerous public statements made by is really government and military leaders allegedly revealing the intent to wipe out not only him off,

but also the palestinian people who have no choice but to stand in the way. on the 1st day of a genocide case against the state of each row in the hague, demonstrations on both sides, much to the u. n's top court in search of 2 different visions of justice. inside the quotes and the legal team for south africa. she brought the case against israel, made the opening arguments to the publicly available evidence of the scale of the destruction resulting from the bombardment of garza and the deliberate restriction of food was. so let's, let's do lecture. such, are you available to the population of casa, demonstrates that the government of israel are no jewish people, is really citizens. so government of israel and its military

is intent on destroying the palestinians because as a group of lights under the, the proceedings could take use. in the meantime, south africa is asking the court to order israel to stop. it's no true operations in gaza, highest civilian casualties and the humanitarian catastrophe have led to international condemnation of these really expensive. the mosse run health ministry says more than $23000.00 palestinians have been killed. the un says one and 4 people in gaza, a staffing but israel vehemently denies allegations of genocide. it insists its campaign is about targeting him us and not the palestinian people. israel says it is acting in self defense after that. how must

terror attacks on october 7th, 2023 is good to a terrorist organization that committed the most terrible crime against the jewish people since the holocaust instruments. and now there are those who come to defend it in the name of the all the causes of what a destiny, an upside down world. israel will address the quote on friday. a decision on emergency measures is expected later this month. ordering a ceasefire is one possible option, but as the court has no way to enforce its rulings, there was hoping for a quick end to the war may be bitterly disappointed. are my 1st gifts tonight is omar bartel fee is a professor of holocaust engine design studies at brown university. he's the author of numerous books on more of the holocaust genocide and anti semitism. he joins me tonight from cambridge, massachusetts, professor. both of it's good to have you back onto the program. even though i, we spoke late last year, i think it was around november,

right after you had written the piece for the new york times in which you said it was crucial to a warrant of the potential for genocide before it occurs. and you added in that article that there is still time to do this now that was november. here we are in january. is there still time? well that's a, that's a very good question. and i guess the international court of justice will have to determine the only place the bank that um look, i mean my, my own says says i just read the 84 pages of the south african i filed and file to the i c j. and so many indications, if not of jealous, i don't know if genocide who acts and thirdly, for crimes and crimes against humanity. and it's a loving operation of ethnic cleansing. so whether this is a fully general set or not will have to be determined. but in the situation on the

ground, the direction that is, is taking has to be reversed as quickly as possible. i want to talk about this, the case of being put forth by south africa just a moment. i want to play a clip for you now from the is really government spokesman mark reg, of the spokesman. a company that was given today. and i want to get your reaction to it. take a list to the south. african government prides itself on hitting a country. they call it the rainbow nation, a nation which has a n t racism is its core. and yet, here we see the south africa, unfortunately a lying and is lining itself with the how much terrorist organization, which is an openly and about lead racist organization. it's a travesty of history. what do you say to that professor, you know, allowing itself with a mouse well, i mean,

let's try certainly, nonsense. i mean, i don't know where the, i guess reads the finally by south africa. it's us. the other line itself will come us is to talks about extremely involved with actions by the ideas, the case of police standing population of guys i don't know if rank of as many other spokes put people generals put efficiency in israel. think stuff from us and the population of god is the same thing. and you could say that that means that statements that were made against from us by various spokespeople industrial actually directed to the entire population, which is very much the case. that is, that is a kind of confusion between come us, which is a terrorist organization. and that would be nice thing if it could be removed from

guys between the 2300000 people who lives a offer for my children. how significant is it to that south africa has brought israel to the world court by invoking the 1948 genocide convention. i mean, is this a historic moment? it is a so small minute on, on various levels of festival because the joe size convention from 1948, which came into force in 1951, the year of it. israel joined it as well. the, the roots of the really the heart, of course, in other cases of mass killing in world war 2. and this was what was the impetus for the newly found to the un to resolve, to, to have such a convention. so that is one side of it. is that is this for a state like israel, which was found to the many ways on the, on the ashes of the heart, of course,

to be accused of genocide is a very tragic moment. the 2nd is the south africa was a country that as we know until 1994. so for the regime of if a brutal regime of a part, i then became a provider of states. and because of the eventually, because of international pressure. um, as soon as you ultimately clubs and the additional island is the one of the only states that's worth to where the south african apartheid regime, particularly in military cooperation, was the state of israel. so there was a fair amount of blood between those 2 states was in fact, as i said, they should have been much closer together. the, they're both countries founded on historical strategies and vision finally coming path rather than going to be able to work. you know, you, you mentioned

a pariah in the international community, you know, as well as i do that a ruling by the board court may take years to come and by then the war between is really the last will probably be over there. there could even be peace in the middle east, and we know that this court has no enforcement authority. so is the court a public opinion here? public pressure is that most relevant with what we're seeing happening? so this is the 3 things that are relevant. as i say. one is that you will have an international body of the assess the injustice of plus one from south africa. and one from israel happens to be a very distinguished choice. who will, did you think i disagree with deliberating, and that's important on its own. the 2nd is a yes that, that there will be um, pressure simply because of the fact that the i c j would be talking about it.

the 3rd is the south africa. aware of that, so the delivery ratios could take a year or longer could be several years, is asking for provisional measures. and those provisional measures can be decided on by the i c, j in the next couple of weeks. and those with have judgements needing much more even if they're not implemented, which one expects they would not be would have that much rate to immediate effect of pressure and both in israel and the police of the united states. so you're here, i've said, and i think you said this when we talked last year that it's important to show that a country is sliding towards genocide when it is sliding towards genocide. that means that the presence of intent has to be there. how does one prove intent when we're talking about is real allegedly committing to genocide against the palestinian people? and so you know, even when i,

i publish the new york times in early november, i science says many cases of the is ready, political and ministry meters. people with executive powers making general side of statement. so the statement says could have 2 implications. one is that the inside the pool and the inside soldiers and when they have hundreds of thousands of reserves. so just we're just history of the citizens in uniform hearing the, the combined us and the political leader is making such a statement and says the schools has an impact on the conduct. and secondly, that that is an element improving genocide, which usually is very hard to prove. now, since then, there's be many more such statements made in the filing by the, by south africa. there's a very long laundry list of statements from top to bottom around the country,

even over the last few days, which of course, some people in israel say is, is, is crazy because this is not the moment to keep making for statements. the question would be whether the statements made being made in the heat of the moment. they're just sort of rhetoric, but they don't actually have to do with actions on the ground that the, that there's a so there's no actually intend to destroy the part of sending people a such a latrice. it's prompting garza but by this i mean, how does it prove that the professor a how do you prove that there is a true intent? even if you have people in the cabinet saying horrible things. how did you make that connection that what they say? what is translating into conduct on the ground and gaza and an entire people and an ethnic group is being extinguished. correct? so this is, this is the,

you have to make the link. and the link can be made or might be made by looking at what the actions of trulia and the ashes be. the 85 percent of the population of casa has been displaced, and are now mostly in the south west in tip of because of the strip where they uh, also under conditions of lack of food, lack of water, lack of sanitation, the lack of medical assistance to the places from which they were displaced has been largely destroyed. and it is no clear plan of ever coming back there and no political horizon because likes or any government refuses to speak of the next stage. but is it true that i mean you're, you're describing a humanitarian catastrophe? i mean human suffering between the images is true. but can we say that there will not be a plan for recycling draws or for these people to go home?

i mean, we know that there are mechanisms in place already to finance reconstruction of god and no one is talking about the, the annihilation of gauze in its people. what many people are talking about in, in, in israel states. and this will be made by 2 senior ministers and these are in the cabinet precisely about encouraging the public fitness to leave, encouraging, obviously, as a, as a collide to, to pushing them up. i think that i in a sense we want to know whether this is an operation of as the closing with genocide, the intent of cause requests, depending on what happens next. if indeed the plan is implemented before the thing is to go back to where they were to to rebuild their lives. then potentially we could say ok, this was very close,

but it didn't quite come to the 23000 people were killed. thousands and thousands of voted and mutilated, but maybe it didn't get to be jealous of the classic because people came back. yeah . but i'm not sure that this will happen. final question, before we run out of time, you know, south africa, as you said, it says it has a history of solidarity with the palestinians that they both have stories of apartheid oppression to tell. other groups in the world are also targets of all kinds of horrible treatment. i'm thinking about the week years in china. they were hinge of me in mar, it seems though that some get more attention than others. that solidarity likes to pick and choose to. does it as well. so this is also, this is true. i mean the, we don't live in the, in the fair in just well, but i would say that the only other case in which one state filed

with the i c j 4 case of jennifer goes to, can be a about the general side of the bringing in miramar, in 9th, in, in 2019. and this did go um, was that liberated by the i c j and is in fact one of the only a precedent for what we're seeing now. secondly, i would say that this really isn't a particularly the sort of delicate moment. israel has claimed always to be the only democracy of the middle east that have had a very moral or the most more army in the world. it has built itself on the legacy of the article. so for a country like israel to be even charged with this is not just that it's unfair to the people of going after israel and also has to do with a sort of lack of disability and understanding of its own historical political

position in the well by it's really this and that i find tragic internally domestically not only into naturally but that israel would bring itself to this point professor and brought home. unfortunately, we're out of time. we appreciate you taking the time to talk with us great conversation. i'm sure that will be reasons to talk again in the future. thank you . thank you very much for having or the polish politics are not pretty at the moment, but was president andre due to it and has announced that he will pardon to populist former lawmakers who were arrested 2 days ago on corruption charges at the president's residence. mario's kaminsky and mind j one check were members of the opposition law and justice. pardon? well, they're no longer in political power, but they are support among voters. apparently isn't weaker

protests on the streets of also thousands of people on the cool of polish president andre, do to, to gather outside the parliament and denounce the new governments over the whole of state media and also to condemn the recent arrest of 2 politicians from the oppositional and justice policy. marius kaminsky, unmatched a voc, check out the since i came here because i don't agree with what's happening in our country right now. i'm concerned about lawlessness and we're not used to it after so many years since the fall of communism. i was pulling a suite in poland and i knew i would wake up in poland and now i'm not so sure. now i'm waking up in a kind of foreign country. tell me what you mean. we will be on top. we will be free. we will do nights and we will show the poland should stay you, poland, to some of you. yes, the background was we were standing next to the wives. do just said that the rest

of the 2 men was a breach of the constitution broke. what i thought it was the, to the volume should not following the request of the wives of the arrested ex ministers. i have decided to initiate the pausing proceedings. simple one is i want this proceeding to be done according to absolutely more constitutional and legal standards. kaminsky was the interior minister of the form of government and vice check his deputy. they was sentenced to 2 years in prison in december 2023 for abusing that power when they were ahead of the central anti corruption bureau. these, the 2 of those men were arrested at the presidential palace on tuesday. they denied the charges, are kaminsky, and eventually it could base been sentenced to 3 years in prison on similar charges

back in 2015 but were pardoned by due to a few months later i to see. 8 the rest this week sparked anger amongst supporters of the law and justice party adding to mounting tension in the country. as the prime minister donald took twice to unpack the last 8 years of leadership by the law and justice party. by reforming political institutions and restructuring the legal system in his aim to lead poland into a more progressive pro european era. but he w, corresponded monica she arrived. scott is following the story for us and with president due to about to pardon, to arrested opposition. politicians. he is the president, is he on a collision course with the new powers that be in warsaw? the next step in this book, both of them will be released. and i hope from day after department of the

president, and which might say, take some time, but it will, it will come from a be in the couple of days or weeks was they, it where, lo, makers before and they are already announced that they will try to they will try to enter the parliament building again and one of them uh, the former interior menus that are coming to you said that a she was do it until uh she, she was do it. and she wanted to attend the complimentary sessions at unless you stopped by force. mm hm. so uh, even if they are not uh, no lawmaker anymore because the they are convicted so according to the law, they are no, it'll make her any more, but they don't accept the situation in monica. how that, how do you, how do you read this situation? i mean, the president, in opposition with it, with the new government,

you've got people protesting on the streets. is poland. is it heading into a severe political crisis or the police, the police go seen and the police society is clearly divided into 2 major groups. one of them recognizes some verdicts on of some cards or some judges and the other girl is a really nice thing. the other judges and the other, the verdicts of other courts. it's on an unprecedented situation. um, it's the 1st such to be constitutional prizes in poland. and police, a good price is important since poland to regain to the independence in 1989. so we are now living in the kind of double parlor words of and, and in the kind of legal do at least

finally, the world's largest elvis presley festival is underway. down under hip shaking and we're wearing elvis fans cabinet and sydney central station to show their burning love for the king. and after a little song and dance they boarded the eldest express valley for a small town in the outback. 25000 elders. incentives are expected to put on their blue suede shoes and makes the pilgrimage to the 5 date extravaganza. this year's theme is the 1957, tim. as you can hear, the music house from the it's almost friday. the day continues. don't mind your point is when x also known as twitter, youtube, that need to be news. you can probably be for dot tv. and remember whatever happens

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conservation panda. but what about animals that are list cuddly? they often find themselves on the side in law. researchers want to change all that and call for more courage to be ugly. step aside and the in 90 minutes dw, the state shall encounter in the late 19 seventy's former concentration camp inmates, shlomo smiles, not met the man who had to maintain him. go stop bog. now 2 years later, bog now was dead. was it suicide? drives to don't really have to go smooth and not c

starts january 27th on d, w. so you don't think and do the same way you expect. and one different thing is from life than your parents. i just want to pursue what that's nice on the side or you think your kid is 2 different, risky, irresponsible, reasonable stopping porters? those nonsense? i want my son to read. i'm a doctor, joe. in the clubs. it's time to, to get your generation with a sleep asked and then when generations flash starts, january 14th on dw is kind of fun. it feels like therapy, the

or the this is dw news live in from berlin. tonight is real before the international court of justice. the charge genocide, south africa, is accusing is really reaching the humans genocide convention. didn't gossip allegations that is real calls baseless. also coming up tonight in mass protests outside poland, parliament, tens of thousands rarely to denounce the new governments overhaul with state media and to demand the release of to jail. former politicians the

i bring golf is good to have you.