as has expelled, giovanni, and that's all for now after the break, especially to be with mock malik brown, looking at the resiliency of democratic institutions as india, the us and the u. k. face crucial elections receive more headlines in 45 minutes to the these places in europe stepped into a bold adventure the treasure map for modern globetrotters discovers some of us regular reading sites on youtube and also into the discovery change your mind. just click away, find out best document trees on you to see the world,

the subscribe. know to dw, talking entry the in the end of you today lot mark miller, brown, president of the open society foundations. we want to talk about the decline and democracy and human rights and how to stop it mocks over 2000000000 people. the go to is a po, it says here in local, regional or national elections. given this see expect taishan specific tasks was the outcome of cc elections? i you void very will be. it's the end of the year. well, it does seem to be a year where there are more elections involving more people going to vote than ever before. but it comes at the end,

the 20 years of study annual democratic decline. so you know, we could end up with a year of a record number of elections and a disappointingly less amount of democracy. and it's, that's a strange place to be because these elections take place at the time of huge crisis in the world. we've just come off halter this year and well, rec board. people keep being killed in conflict has reached the numbers we've not seen since the 1980s. we're seeing extraordinary breakdowns of a little of the lore of conflicts with civilians being targeted with human rights being pushed back in many countries in many fields. so that might set you up for a set of elections which will bring real change, but failing incumbents would be injected and right, you leaders who spoke for these frustrations and problems which i for the better or

for the well, you might hope it would be for the better, but to be honest, when you look at the likely full costs for each of these elections individually, what you see is a much more disappointing part of the will be elections like in my own country the day when the fairly traditional way. it's likely that a long standing come, government gets replaced by, you know, a fresh, a new position. but, you know, in other places you've got russia where i put in will face no serious opposition. you have india where, you know, i'm, is to moody is doing remarkable. things in many ways, but is no friend of human rights and yet seems cruising through to a big victory. and you've above all, got the drama of the united states where either president trump has just won the 1st. quote, chris wrote in iowa in a dramatic fashion,

setting up an almost certain contest between him and president biden in november. and, you know, i think this doesn't exactly suggest the fresh generational change of lead is around the world that you might hope the situation merited. and so other countries which gives you particular to cause for concern, but you say, i'm very bored about the possible outcome in this country, for example. well, i think one has to begin with the united states because the us influence globally is so significant. and this has remained such an important leader for good and sometimes so bad in the world that you know it's democracy perhaps coming off the rails in november is key. i mean, we've done polling as a santee, which shows that 2 thirds of americans are worried that will be violence around the

election. and you know, there is plenty of posing evidence that neither side will accept the results. the other side wins. we have a dramatic breakdown of trust in the imagined body politic massive overrides ation, on one side, threatening to a rule. do anything it takes to impose its will going forward. so it's a very dangerous place. but, you know, there are other elections to where we will see in the european parliament trail actions, you know, a huge cross country exercise. you know, the current polling suggests that there will be a surge in the odd right votes and an incremental increase in an incentive right votes. and that's the center i'm left is likely to get, you know, quite

a code shot in those elections. well, you know, if it was just swing from the center left to the center, right. you know, nobody would worry, i think these roll the goods, respect, democracy and it's, and the rules of democracy. but, you know, there is continuously now the, the risk in both national european situations as well as the euro level that we're going to see, you know, all star carrion's sitting in the palm and to the right to the left or to the right . well, i mean, the next in particular focus is to the right, but let me be clear, i don't think that the right has a monopoly of extremism. you know, we're seeing on the left to on university campuses as well as in politics. you know, a lot of sort of adult meyer and extremism and failure to kind of build consensus and compromise with other groups. so, you know, this, this issue of polarization,

you know, is, is, is across politics. what kind of strategies to use? so just as the open society foundations to counter in liberal tendencies, well, we were a foundations set foundations, which grew up in the last to years of the cold war where at least grantees and recipients in central europe, particularly. but also in the old soviet union. you know what people who had fought for the right to free speech and potentially f, right in future to vote. and so, you know, we had a kind of classic human rights and democracy mandate give people a vote secure the human rights under the law. and the rest will take care of itself on the history of the last. a decayed,

also as being the rest doesn't take care of itself that people remain in polling allows. and all those, you know, remain very much committed theoretically to democracy. but in judging their own governments and how they're going to vote, much more understandably, driven by issues around that own and that families, security as they go jobs. are those jobs threatened by waves of illegal immigrants have they got access to affordable health? and the education is the cost of living, accelerating beyond that means. and, you know, it's these sets of immediate quality of life, security of life issues and pocketbook issues which, you know, attending voting sort of, people vote for, you know, an apparently or 3rd period government. it doesn't mean that they're into a single,

solitary and is a matter of a democracy more often than not, they're throwing out an incompetent incumbent who might be democratic, but hasn't deliberate for them. and so, you know, i think we've got to see behind the sort of argument of political philosophers around rights and democracy and you know, sure up the effectiveness of government because that's the best way for democracy to prevail is when it's listening to people and delivering folders and to autocrats deliver better results and the end in the end though for a while perhaps. but because, you know, they're able to apparently sort of pray on the shortcomings of government. and you know, a little bit like, seizes in the pos, promising bread and sexes. you know, offer from an image it sort of the tax caught. so, you know,

promising to stop in and immigration all. some other things which, you know, a pledge is which stands out well for the, a short months of an election campaign. but in government often provide a prove much hard to deliver and there's not a single battle authoritarian is in is it tends not to come with a governing philosophy, you know, other than tearing down what was already that. and so it's very usually lacks of sophistication of policy delivery to really address be things have problems like shortcomings in an education system or a health delivery system. and so, you know, mind and, and it also doesn't have the seeds of its own renewal. and it, because, you know, it doesn't respect elections as a means for, for, you know, knowing when it's times out. and it's time for the other luck to come back into

power. and so, you know, over time it is, will prove a set of failed doctrines. but you know, the difficulty is the risk, you know, a risk that donald trump spoken to in the us. for example, if you're winning an election but then tearing up so many of the sort of soft rules of democracy practices. if democracy, by the time the next election comes around, the media is not flat, is, is less free. quotes have been stuff with, you know, pro trump judges of state rules being rewritten in ways that limit the affective franchise. and so there is a risk that or 3rd period is getting out and then pull the ladder out behind them to make sure nobody can clamber up and replace. so what would be a positive outlook of all the election space been talking about in 2024 looked like

for the, the bulk received from your point of view. well, it would be, you know, a set of elections where, you know, popular concerns did come through and it way that politicians had and responded to because this is a well of mounting crisis and has a challenge politics. but to come out of the, you know, with a series of disappointing results would be just not disappointing. but you know, democracy has shown an extraordinary habit to surprise to suddenly produce that extraordinary young leader who is the right woman all mine for the moment. and, you know, i think we shouldn't go into this, you know, with that mindset that the has to end up with a set of bad results. so, you know, politics is a horse race. and so sometimes the long shot horse wins

and you know, so i, we shall go into the years really consensus ends with our eyes on the race and i'm cheering on the exciting on the dogs. ok, thank you. a lot my left for on for this interview. thank you. the answer is the conflicts with sim sebastian, the israel. how much small booth briefly to an open courtroom with the hey, how the city is welcome to move, including my guess we stuff about booty and the westbank who has the power city and the national initiative. we've never been in such a difficult situation. so how will the more and kind garza ever be rebuilt? conflicts the next on d,

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