and so with this now for a documentary about the abduction of hundreds of thousands of babies, find a catholic church in spain during and after the franco dictatorship and the consortium. i'll have more headlines at the top of the next hour. hope to see you then the ice cold beer. jessica needs an expedition ventures on 2 places that no one has the climate research in the ice, the dos march, the d w. the . this is the story as l. lopez. just over 40 years ago, she gave birth to

a child imagery clinic. she should have seen one of the happiest moments of her life. but it turned out to be the worst the guilt video to me. that is the end of the book on the letter, stacy? yeah. i don't remember anything except to moment when the bus was already over it up to relo, was leaning over me saying i'd give him bus 2 a daughter, but that she wasn't very well. so he wanted to have had baptized right away of the day. you see black level, i was still very hazy and said yes to everything. the charlotte already you don't to then i left the delivery room with a non unreturned. does it like to with a baby or wrapped up in a towel? or maybe says, i said 6 to give your child a case and i kissed the little face and it was freezing me. so i saw the whole bundle was ice, cold, a lady just then we free a letter that the news. but the only

way that the gap i found that's what i saw that 2 hours later talk to then i came back and told me my child was dead. i left for you at the back home i sank into a deep depression. you'll be here one day my husband came in with the newspaper and said don't event as being arrested. someone reported him for baby trafficking, southern i believe he does. a generalist was investigating the photographer, found a frozen baby in the clinics, freezer and secretly took photos. a best yeah, no. yeah, yeah. you'd have so i said to my husband for the, this is the child i was shown with the o d u and then i told him the whole story. he did either to okay. leather. it has to be here. yeah. this is really good. that was a study of the ladies the,

the transfer, the for i to else a lopez is not an isolated case. around 300000 women in spain have had the children stolen only in the past 10 to 15 years has the full scale of the crime come to light. since then mothers have been looking for the children and children for their best parents. but this is proving extremely difficult because most of the evidence has been covered up the the, the origins of the child safety can be traced back to the 19th. thirty's, spain was a backward impoverished arch conservative country at the time. 1931 new democratic elections were a source of high hopes,

the but soon general frank coast right, we military forces stage. the crew against the young republic or risk, civil war ensued with hundreds of thousands of deaths. the general franco emerged victorious in 1939 and subsequently ruled within the insist about 500000 political opponents, ended up in prison. among them many women who would vote for the republic. they brought the instance with them to prison, but the children would never registered, which left them dangerously vulnerable the it'll come and then the by the, when i say to foothill mean to like every step in 10 to the ideological basis for the kidnapping of children that was provided by the military psychiatrist via so

not correct for him left us ideas were a kind of mental illness that are sort of is crucial to prevent the babies from feeding on the milk is coming to some of the month, the democratization of the country. i've caused the to generation and the spanish race in order to regenerate that for the children of the red. so i have to be removed from the influence of their parents and you want it above all from the influence of their mother's phenomena. the female in general, had a tendency towards perversity evil, a tendency that was only intensified when women interfered in politics. they don't, as was frequently the case in the republican come after. they said that if you upset about the this uh, this frank host justification no phone lisa, motoring and imprisoning dissenters. but also the taking away the children. when you're putting in hope you're having no deductible is get there to meet and effectively thought of getting a 1940 to even created laws to save the children of republican parents. this is the,

this was a phrase you provided a legal veneer for taking children from their parents and revolting parental acosta . you saw in the, at the age of 3 years or the children of imprisoned women were collected from the prison by soldiers with no explanation. but of and taken to convince or church homeless for re educating it. i think i already hear some of you. i think there's an opportunity of yeah, the re calvin uses research has revealed that by the end of the 1940s, some 30000 children have been abducted from their parents for political reasons. and given under full names to couples loyal to the regime or placed in homes. ready ready according to virginia's, the church was a willing partner and frank coast painted with increasing privileges list. you know,

i was on the list here either principle to say the catholic church collaborated with front goes dictatorship is an accurate seventy's will easily say the catholic church was the heart of franco isn't very niche was frankly, someone can come to see if he could, frankly, wisdom could not have existed without the catholic church, for the honesty pays for the church sees the reason to apologize to this day. it hasn't budged an inch. tiny question. the truth, i just don't want to navigate, because i've got a to accept the rate of the 1945, franco, who described himself as a 70 loyal son of the church, declared catholicism to be the official state religion. the agreements granted the church control over the education and health sect is

now nothing stood in the way of the re education and the legal adoption of red children from the fifty's on which the political rational was no longer necessary. by then, franco had spain. suddenly in his grief the abduction of children now developed into a business model involving doctors, lawyers, and above all, the catholic church. childless couples did the most to present themselves as a good family. a baby cost about as much as a condominium, while adoptive parents were led to believe that the bus mother did not want the child. the unmarried pregnant women were branded as full and goes for prostitutes. as

punishment, they was sent to church homes where they were forced to do backbreaking work for no pay. these homes were controlled by a state institution run by franco his wife one such home was pena grundy. on the outskirts of madrid. now a modern school, nothing recalls the disappearance of hundreds of new bones there up until the early 19 eighties. however, old footage shows how things were back then. dolores gomez, right. and impregnated by her own father when she was 15, also remembers when the you got us, nobody made okay. they put it went on, i'm to say that the she's supposed to be and when you arrived and your grand a as a pregnant young go, the nuns didn't ask, how are you? but rather, what happened? do you want to keep the child or give it up for adoption syrup?

and so i was getting them home and i don't think any of us that even thought about the question, guess we were still getting used to on you invited your boss. notice that hard, but they didn't let home because they kept questioning till they had you stuff. don't this? uh huh. to install. this is a young single go, no family in the background, which means no one will ask questions and the case if and the don't forget about the bottom. i didn't even after that, they would just, i'm relenting from what i can do. i'll give your child up for adoption and it can grow up in a good christian family as god will, and somebody else monday nor to switch. you won't be able to raise the child any way to know what's happening. you know, was anything you're nothing. i said, i know they were so brutal list. yeah. got it out. but who started the

the also consuelo go see, a deal said was one of the 1st to take a close look at child trafficking and penny a grunting through facebook. she contacted women who were in turns there and recorded the stories, a separate unit, a sort of tablet. but my area and they'll say to me, i run into this deputy and i'll probably tell it was in the human watch pain tonight. the nuns even took advantage of the women's name of painters. they left the pregnant woman alone in a room, a cold, and they do have sorrows. and when the pain go to unbearable, they came with the adoption paper and said, well have your baby adopted sign now you to sign now to mail it out. and if not doing what they do often say you'll baby has to be incubated. it's very similar to that. i looked at the incubators where one flora and after 2 days they tell you your child has died in your family. i said, yeah, those, those they have sending them with them. but these children will not dead if they've

been given up for adoption in another. yeah, the elsa lopez's child, was also pronounced dead in him, a treat maternity hospital and allegedly buried the same day without her the mother being permitted to attend the funeral. some women heard being told similar lives, have since had the graves of their allegedly dead children opened and found them empty. the medicaid, on the lucky you have the time they told me at the clinic, so they'd buried my child's here in a mood in a symmetry maker when he got but it was an eye as i realized last time,

you have the to another. and this and you, of course i went to the cemetery administration, but they didn't know anything in the state of that. but much later off this other inquiries they claimed today that i read the remains at the corpse in an anonymous mass grave. this was the custom when no one came forward within 10 years issue. i filed a cool complaint and also took it to the police or they got their response then was to say that they didn't informed me of everything at the time when i got up at the end of this year. and i still don't even know where this alleged mass grave is supposed to be, and i need to start getting rid of or settled why or the cover ups? why the silence for continues to this day explains bloodless transition from dictatorship to democracy. came at a high price, says both as the throne he was once feigns, most fame is judge prosecuting crimes against humanity. the will doza

internationally reviewed and nominated for the nobel peace prize. gallstone failed in his own country. in 2000 and nights. he was the 1st day and prosecute the crimes of the franco dictatorship in spain, including the 5th of $30000.00 children from republican parents. his investigations prompted an accusation of abuse of office on grounds of his violating the 1977, amnesty little the guaranteed impunity for post perpetrate has no further charge heard by the supreme court which met with public protest and intense media interest . he was removed from office and banned from practicing his profession for 11 years . um, what is the other one though? they already committed when franco died, theoretically,

it could have meant the end of repression. but in reality, nothing changed. the video that should have been a rupture, a democratic reckoning. yeah, but it's always responsible. so frank coast regime should have been held accountable for their abuses. but that didn't happen. some of the total under the hosting's here in the spanish judiciary clothes that i used to it all. it was the same judges as during franco's arizola nice. there was no transparency whatsoever until it's done that it wasn't even a symbolic break with a dictatorship. it was and is a pact of sign, and that's why the spanish state hasn't investigated the kidnapping of children. well, the out the crimes of the franco era, even though they are all crimes against humanity. and so the franco dictatorship, which lasted almost 40 years, continues to shape the country to this day. since gallstones owls to constantino who's trying to continue his work, the victims of baby snatching to enjoying

a lawsuit in the odds and teeny and coolants against the perpetrators of franco is a glimmer of hope. l. lopez often meets up with fellow suffer is that common fight unites them feel. navarro is also still looking for her daughter and christina moore, i show for her son in law, courteously that we just had to get by so couldn't get it. yeah. how's the little susie notion, tina going p e? let's see for us. okay, 0 at the info. there's a typical stands to let the moment a conflict on the horses. the spanish authorities are still refusing to cooperate with the argentine in judiciary, april official cassettes have, we've tried everything, they will not gone to the highest cool that of these to see on but nothing has come of it. keeping that so that i spit on 2nd. most then, yes,

it sides hopes that come to nothing in this though. so me those. by the way, i've had a genetic test done in the us. it's been feeling at any the genetic test in the us increases the chance of finding relatives because the u. s. has the world's largest databases of genetic profiles, but comparison, these matching process really occurs in spanish and the bar trees. flatow is key, is that my you or the other? no, that's why the majority of us, half of the dna testing done in the us army, the condo human, which we also distrust with the genetic look bar trees in this country. komatsu, they're always strange things happening. we like it says the test is negative when in fact it is positive experiences and things like that come via the 1st week that it was updated or not. what i thought he, us, communal for the level that thought you get for it up and there's 2 new state run dna lab for us in spain for us that, that so he's been off the phone for

a long time now. so and then, and we don't trust the private library rather back in because we know that many of them are connected to ultra conservative clerical or political cycle con, legacy on my rescue. as certainly not interested in bringing the crimes of a friend to era to long provide or pick it up, i thought i space 30 a gabby to understand the dope to a villa is considered one of the key figures in the nationwide network of baby traffic is you know, the 1000 cases, victims named team and he's the assistant system, maria, from the order of the daughters of charity as the perpetrators. despite being reported dozens of times, dr. villa continued to work with impunity in 2018 challenges were finally brought against him. in one single case,

as reported by the spanish press, the 85 year old appeared in court for the oral hearing, where he stated for the record, but he couldn't remember anything. is the next day the trial was suspended due to the defendant's health problems. 5 months later, villa was found guilty, but was acquitted to, to the statute of limitations for the crime. in 2019, he died. many spanish knowns were involved in the baby snatching. but system maria. dr. villas, right hand woman, was the alleged main perpetrator. yet she too was not charged until 2 cases in 2012 of the non by then in her late eighty's refuse to testify. shortly before a new trial date, the order announced that she had died suddenly and had already been buried.

why did the order only announce system marie is pausing after she had allegedly been quietly buried wise and ex you mation as demanded by victims groups still the 9 to this day in 2015 it emerge. the 2 different death certificates exist, the original signed by the physician. doctor beto co has a different sequence of digits than the copy. oddly enough, doctor barrow county was not even the attending physician. however, his father was a friend of doctor villa system, maria's former pulse since our interview request was denied, we visited adult to barrow call at home. how does he explain the different death certificates? however,

he was north of the talking at the registry office, the different number sequences caused 1st on the shipment to get out. and it didn't mean to the head of the department promised to look into the master. she would email us in a week at the latest but despite several follow up inquiries, we received no answer. no, thank you to finally we searched for the grave of the daughter of charity in the sand whose those symmetry and madrid with system. maria is purportedly buried as officially the symmetry of thor is. these are not allowed to tell any one way. the grave is located. the religious order does not meet at last but not least, we visited the order of the daughters of charity. although they too refused us an

official interview. a short conversation ensued. a sister died. we don't give statements, no comment. who our lives onto ashamed of what sister maria did. know why our sister did what she had to do. we loved her as she is. she did her job well. the common del mazda was also once a nun in the order of the daughters of charity. on sundays, she often help system, maria, at the o'donnell clinic and was surprised that the flow where the incubators were located was always closed off on that day. no one was gone to the entry only lights or did she find out that babies was sold there on sundays the i store

and lots of folks don't human and i also so women coming into the clinic with a pillow under the addresses and then walking out with a baby in their own, in the study that i'm not accusing all of assistance from the former order. but those who participated in these crimes must be punished by the state justice system notes by the judge in york. i want to touch the guy deals. i wanted to help people, so i became a none of the me, but i gradually realized how intolerant the church was much. it was on this side of power and notes on this side of the pool, the whatever the level of the, what does the official church in spain said to the accusations? what does it think about the baby theft? we asked, co said, shall vieira, communications director of the a piece, skip it when i jump it. okay. and that's the way they actually weigh it out. at least that got to look. i don't think you can say the catholic church was involved

in the babies to have to yeah. it hasn't been confirmed by any court decision or otherwise. there were some perpetrators who may have been associated with the church who worked in church institutions for setting up the church as an institution has nothing to do with the baby steps. it's individuals who acted on their own initiative ability got to blame the church as an institution. it's kind of a range of simple even fun thing about a family, you know. so could someone like system, maria have been selling children for years without her own and knowing it bounces. but i so such an accusation would have to be substantiated in court. the court would then have to decide whether an institution should be prosecuted because it had knowledge of certain actions of its members. either you and there, i can determine that. so not a problem was that they gave me to new york. the

madrid's hospital district was the center of the baby abductions up until the 19 ninety's. there were thousands of cases kia alone in spain as a whole. close to 20000 cases have been reported in the last 15 years. move in 90 percent of the cases have been shelved the rest and making little progress. or it's a matter of too many fools leads into little interest on the part of the judiciary . says, john, list marie jose as disapprove as the years she's been trying to track down the truth. doing this, the guy though, who run through the assign your sister say in the close of my 10 years of research shows, i discovered numerous sports papers that prove the baby abduction yet. it may be one example is a document where a clinic doctor gave the cause of death to several babies as a title, which is upset because of tied to is a homeless ear infection. he got

a feeling that but on sundays, according to the doctor's signature, 5 children died from a title in the us. the numbers you the when top is especially before christmas and around the tiffany. because the demand for babies was particularly high that he lives, there is a problem for me, maybe sort of popular christmas gift low spots. because if a family wanted to be socially acceptable in those days, they had to have children. they specify because e, england, and is a couple, couldn't have children is their own that less then they just went and bought one to the coma. cnn kid. a lot of stuff for us to color spa. this is based off the image piece of the catholic church, clearly supported these practices. for example, i discovered a pre black to explaining to a couple exactly how to proceed from selecting the baby of the mentality hospitals . do you want me to picking it out and registering it? does that? do you want to say we're making noise? is to you whether it was

spain, ireland, australia, sheila or raj and tina? the catholic church was always involved in babies matching. how could it has come to these feeling they feel that means when religion makes a pact with the powerful gets rewarded with privileges and becomes and tolerance in dire guns, the religion is an instrument of power. of course the happy movements in the catholic church that of trying to break the pattern. for example, liberation, theology invites in america and also some clergy in this country. but the still that of the very dock side of the charge that prevents the truth coming out. yeah, it's round to itself in silence. it is going away with it to that to this very day . she lives here. even although according to a recent survey,

fairly 19 percent of the spanish population are still practicing catholics. the power of the church exists on its block is still strong. today thomas sent on drew an ex priest from the okay. attributes these primarily to the churches ambiguous, sexual morality. and when they go pick out of it will say it's the only thing that really accounts for the church is facts. yeah. by declaring sex a sin can dominate the faithful. whatever we have. the homeless on time drew was right. is a child's by a priest. when he disclosed the abuse, the bishop rebuked him. he was the c. know he'd seduced the priest. but for some time, drake, it's about mold in his personal experiences, he's particularly disgusted by the church as involvement in the baby abductions that too, could only work. he believes because the nuns were trapped in a sexually hostile system,

like listening opinion. like once you have that ready to see that piece of his day, the church believes that they were doing good to meet the 50000 non took away a woman's baby because in a non xyz, an unmarried woman was a prostitute. and not fit to be a mother knew. so she was saving the child and by giving it to an affluent christian people, that was her belief use that is like what the for the institution of the church, the baby trade was a profitable business. but for the individual, none, it had nothing to do with money. i'm gonna hate the little guy, whatever. but if you had the money she received for the sale of the children was not had a report and she took it straight to the mother superior. look, you know, if you want to win over a non, when you don't give her money, would you give her a pilot? it shows her the keys to the delivery room or the keys to

a pallet. well then that's how you get out on your side. i didn't ask him for that . the perhaps some nuns got stuck in a kind of treadmill. the demand for children kept increasing. collateral, inc guy. so those kind of crazy and it says 2 or 3 cases, they could certainly have told themselves, we'll say this child's moment, but as time went on the demand to multiply the level at some point the non wasn't concerned with them saving a child. but with getting the job done, they will come looking good in front of the boss, the doctor, and also the doctor's wife, needed a child and i'm gonna call the wife at the kennel general and that's the to she was supposed to procure. a child may be once a yeah, but then once a month, they to once a week will need and maybe eventually and every day. yeah, keep the church, she's silence on the massa and keeps its archives closed. and the victims lancaster

on united movement to force clarification that such as he has he and there's but at least that kind of it's a mess. yes. it's really a problem that we didn't join forces and they were just too many victim groups guessing folks down in problems and petty jealousies to the brain sapient. what we need is one strongly agree with one or 2, no is or or no that would get the publicity we need. there's a must have the data, the same of the unless of course the sinus he has forgotten office case under governments. the hey, this is on the list that he had a seat in most his title in congress. from those who novel, we have been to congress in bones the senate accommodating bodies, promises promises last time that nothing happened was okay, but then then they said basically waiting for us to give up for dying, moody, and almost lost. his mother's half died in the meantime. e the greatest to of

course k, i need to is the school daily the closer to me small? oh no. margaret, when the 5th mother who's lost a child's thoughts campaigning for the truth. she went stone, you know, she caught up in the and so we'll continue to, we've done most of talking no more than the, the solar dad, luca delgado who's looking for her twin brother as also being campaigning. so many years, she found that a victim support group and is the press spokesperson for the joint action lawsuit, teen hodgen, tina. and perhaps most importantly, she introduced a bill in the spanish parliament that requires the state to recognize child abduction as a crime against humanity. is not a absolute commenting full sense. it's an absolutely crucial law for the victims of baby snatching because it would finally compel the state to search for the

dissipate children to deal with the individual cases and to bring the culprit to justice. specifically, we demand 1st and foremost, the opening of the archives, the state, and probably, but to be that is because it's the special that i'm asking for in the case of private all kinds. we're particularly interested in the archives of the catholic church, which is being hermetically sealed to this day. it's imperative that the church finally opens these archives and make schools irrelevant him to make should accessible for not only so that the victims can learn the truth. but also says that they can finally conduct research into their own respective cases of the, in $1000.00. we are not asking for money for the need on any kind of compensation. low nick. okay, the only thing we're asking for is psychological and medical health. but as a d h and to help civic tennessee mass may but comfortable to put you in a list that i may be se on. now. in barcelona,

we need to consolidate. present who's been searching for his biological routes for over 20 years. he's lost faith in the goodwill of politics. some yeah, sure negligent for sure. even if the church were legally obliged to open its archives, which would take immediate legal action, the years would pass before anything actually happens english. i know because most cases of infant abduction followed a similar pass and involving doctor's nuns and nurseries. in barcelona. there was an additional profit to you here until the 1970s is joseph care. us ran an ultra catholic relief organization that offered young single pregnant women apartments extensively as a retreat to hide the shame from the public kind together as also took care of all

the women's medical arrangements from hospitalization to delivery. once the child was born, the business operation began. according to investigations, find the public prosecutor's office. around 2000 newborns was sold by shall, safety, care, us. desperate unmarried young mothers with coaxed and co worst into giving upset babies. all the infants were declared, still borne by medical accomplices, consolidate posts, and he's one of the stolen children. his mother had died and his father was suffering from dementia. when he 1st sold the documents that showed something was wrong. in his birth certificate, the crucial entry was missing the name of his parents, the english. they actually discovered fairly quickly that i hadn't even be legally adopted, but sold by figueroa. so that's a huge difference of course,

thinking logically eating disorders. the good introduce the documents to his perception of a happy childhood. and he trying to get more information once again for us. who was this man? a form a keeps going up. he'd quickly worked his way up through to the highest church circles before handing over a child to adoptive parents. pierre us 1st had them to what cost with him on christian child rearing. and the babies tend to be baptized. it will happen here in the rectory and in the poorest sema concepcion church. make only in that kind of populations a line, and assessing dicey and that you discover more about my birth. i went to the nuns who worked with joseph vigorous from 1967 to 1974. and they told me i that's very difficult to find out anything. yeah. because there was

a big flood that destroyed all the archives. yeah, the only other option will just kind of try it again a week later, but i forgot about it. and they told me that there being a fire here's ago which had destroyed all the documents photo 9 and not the on the yeah, no one i didn't call not that, that's a possibility. yeah, probably if they say, oh gosh, i don't think would probably be of tells me about of ok know that going to be for maybe an earthquake chess that i'd be swallowing up all the documents, property law and even have the stuff properties we visit the religious order which has been linked to easton, to directions on numerous occasions to old nuns welcome us. but when we say we journalists stay, a friendly smiles fade. that was a long time ago. it was in the eighty's in some hospitals, but it has nothing to do with us to come with at this. we are tired of talking

about this subject. you gen lists claims, things that are not true. i'm sorry if it sounds vulgar, but the more you deal with shit when the more it starts, just leave me much willie. and we also meet the notary who signed for the adoption papers put together as at the time. what does he have to say about people still searching in vain for their identity? what do you mean those consent and go to the residents registration office and boss elona at any time to ask for that bus that it's good to get it immediately. there's nothing to hide but those concerns present. it's quite different. maybe the go. oh stop it. they just want to melted, but what, it's what? so they say they stole me. so there's nothing behind it. nothing new to their, of the consolidate posts and he's well acquainted

with all the lines and cover ups in the front coffee valid on get into effect is what a single document has been handed over and nobody attempts to knowing anything about us. on the contrary, they don't believe they've acted for the better. good. for me personally, i've given a copay that i keep going, especially from my doctor. so she'll know one day where she comes from school, she had to draw a family tree. the top of her tree was empty. probably i think that i mean the winds and despite told the promises, because the church not opened dates on college to this day. and rescued hello said to us about going to a does have to you lose the subsidy, was the last nothing is due to of these children that actually stored mainly in the archives of public institutions. for instance, in the archives of the maternity awards and clinics where the babies were born and

then stone and the church archives. on the other hand, step up to small registers that to you, they never storage such data, except they're only interested in the religious side of a person. nothing would be noted that could give any indication of a child's origins. no story about testing or registers or not a suitable means of finding out where this child comes from. what there's a stone and not some sense. yeah, let me though they sending you. oh, see, i see the oh no, the amnesty international disagrees with these statements. and points out the church. all kinds do have documents that could help victims in this search. the clues after old, the majority of maternity clinics and maternity hines on the church management touring the franco era. only a few mothers and children have found each other. but even this disappointment is often inevitable if expectations are too high,

the your, in the way less pity is here. i once don't, i had found my daughter when there was a point to match in the same clinic in madrid, my the same day to best i miss must be bad. and so we had to dna testing, and i mean, but unfortunately the result was negative for not again our full time for now i do, i use the drunk winter on me. and even if i were to find my son today, get it and it's might not be the dream ending with a little play, but he wouldn't want to know anything about me handle it. that would be terrible. i mean, hires me so they don't mean holding. we apologize, me whole issue is that even the of course you have to lower your expectations of this child is now in idaho civil most 40. yes. perhaps shaped by influence is you

wouldn't like what is that just got a warranty? the hosting of the one year that's good for the expect that the best basically i no longer believe all that's assigned to my door so that the other thing is if the other hands, i often think if this child is happy with her adoptive parents, why should i bring her back into my wealth. yes. these are for me. when i want to some my child to know, i know that i didn't give her away and i wasn't to prostitute or any ghost as they said, it feels like any that she was stolen from me. thinking that i never stopped loving . how would that be with this? but it did, it was that are for dealing with anything else is a 9, but as the to the tech a they who are they get it and that's all i care about and say the solution is they'd be there in that. and i don't that in throw hazel leave, but of time it's so late in the the

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