of all the rest of the classify as disgusting. w series about our complex relationship with animals. the great debate, what's, you know, on youtube, dw documentary, the full month terms of the browser will i'm as know and do site to the killing. i'm the suffering. how long could israel continue? it's minute you can pay as its allies would increasingly, but too many palestinians are by my guest this week here in tel aviv is from harvey former ahead of israel's foreign intelligence service, the most side for now, europe and america are insisting that this war ends with a pos way to palestinian statehood. jerusalem says no. in the midst of this division. who and what can stop the blood chit from probably be welcome to come 6 or 4 months into the cause of war as well has failed

to achieve the 2 objectives. it sets itself crushing moss and bring back the hostages. what's going wrong? i think the war is taking longer than was expected. i think the estimates of the capabilities of the some us to continue to fight and to be relevant to at pfizer again. so the idea and i also believe that too, is also results of a miscalculation on up out as to how long this law would take and the games even achievable, crushing how much. i think it's too early to say. i think the war is no, it's over yet. i think most of the strip is no longer under the control of the time us. the major area where the fighting is going on is in the

south where the concentration is all the major combine depositions of if i'm us, which have not yet been penetrated to entirely. and i think it is too early to judge whether it's the end with the final defeats of some us or something. some of the less you said recently, if we end the war without a clear cut victory of a mosque, we will not to win the war. we have to carry on as long as we can in order for the other side to raise the white flag. what if they don't raise a white side? if they don't to the raise the white flag, we will continue. i think defending, of course, on the patients of the international community. depending on many other aspects, including the problem of the israel, is as hostages which are being held by the other side. i think that it is

a too early to make a final of the estimates of how this will ultimately and you talk about the patience of the international community while acknowledging the israel's right to defend itself. some of the old closest allies have expressed considerable disquiet about your military campaign. do you guys or do share any of these concerns? a week of to the campaign began, i gave an interview to the london times of which i said that i thought that to have a uh, what do you call the territory? and the new the uh, would be a mistake on our part because i felt as i said, and then they do would own the leads to agony versus i've been a i think we are fast to reaching that point. but we have not reached it yet. and i think that is really has a lot of capability now to continue the war. even if we will have to also devote

attention greater attention to the developments in the north of the country. one of the most damaging accusations about is we have some of that you tactics came from joe. by december he accused israel of indiscriminate bombing in gaza. and so shocking accusation isn't it? especially for the military that prides itself on being the most mar, allow me in the world. well, i don't to forget it myself. the confidence to uh, disagree with the president of the united states. and he probably has more information that i have for his conclusion. i would go the do different difference and know to accept this particular statement of his. but it is certainly entitled to think so he's in the position to the what he speaks about his intelligence service has the process connections with yours doesn't. it says so he, he wouldn't make it up with the oh no, no,

but not really no means especially during the fact that to the present to director of the c i a is a man of the great ship your station. and i have a note of him and i've met him in the past many times, nothing in my capacity is headed with most of it. and he was the investor to jordan when i was a, the secret invoice during the arounds for a drop being. the problem is in order to get the pastry to and i think he's a man of the annual most capability. and also he is a done things that especially on the ukrainian the a c does have been unprecedented to this accusation wouldn't have been made. logic would it's, i mean, a good discriminant bombing could amount to a well crime couldnt it. yes, i think it's a uh, a statement which is, in my view,

uh, okay, to, uh, strong the, a term to use. uh, when you have a domain, the sometimes when the scope of the bombing is, is so a big deal has to take into account the tier and there they might be a hitches in the operation. but i don't think this is the main character of the way is really office is working and is that a performing? and i think that they are very much aware of the, the rules of the international concerning a law firm. if you're using a 1000 pounds. 02000 buttons and into the found bouldin's in the densely populated area. it's hardly pinpoint targeting is defends, what else there is in that particular area area. if of a, the people they're using to their own a population as human shields, it's very difficult to can to,

because you haven't attacked and took a, maintain an operation without having here. and there a, a, a, uh, a certain event which it was probably not intended to, but i do think of it to by and large israel and these ready forces. i know. so the apples i being very careful in the way they have uh, operates in the way they have the buttons, the, the areas that they needed to them. the style of a cutting food board to unmet soon to be garza strip is also prevent outrage in many quarters at the beginning of the war, a senior is ready, official major general costs on the, on the coordinate of government activities in the territories. declared that in gaza that will be no electricity, no water that will only need destruction. you wanted help, you will get hell. in your view, what military am has been achieved by cutting food?

water met some during the civilian population under what circumstances is that not collective punishment out to it by the geneva conventions. the will began in a certain way, a sudden as to actions were taken, as you have described them very quickly. the israel changed as follows. is i never without the food for to be brought into the area, some fruit and lots of food. a larger and larger quantities of food are being taken to the area. unfortunately, this has been taken over by the time us forces the and the in many cases the population did not to benefit from these a surprise, the supplies of a being continuing all the time and increasing all the time. and the israel has, i think, to realize that uh uh, it is in its interest not to prevent a larger and larger quantities of food to enter the territory. unfortunately,

as i say, and i said that the moment ago the, some us has taken over controls and food. and we know that for a fact we know that i know that for a fact is definite. the, and this is, by the way, is also created at the beginning of an uprising of the population against the, from us. this very reason i'm was that by the design, by cutting food, water and electricity was that was the design of the is read. it was the design of the from us. no, i mean the, the design to limit food limit essentially supplies. so the population would rise up against the. i mean, this is close to charge. you know, i don't think that that is what happens. uh, we are from our point of view of the, the analogy greater and greater quantities of food and the other essentially to reach that does a still fun, that's who was coming in before to but they, but the problem is that the, the,

some us is using the distribution of the what we are allowing to enter in a such a manner. that's a many parts of the population. the many areas do not receive well if we're allowed to enter. again, coming back to a point about a international community using patients 800 european, the newest civil 7 to this, to the non president. it statement criticizing their own governments, what they called complicity and your military operations. and they say as well showed no boundaries in the middle of jo patients and gaza, which resulted tens of thousands of preventable disability. and that's a deliberate blockade of age, putting thousands of civilians at risk of starvation and slow death. it's not blowing out. i think they're absolutely wrong. i don't think they have the right, the numbers of people who dies. i don't think they have the capability to

add to the area and to know exactly how many people died in a certain moment to a certain day. i believe in number of casualties. there's have been a suffered in the gaza strip, to some extent, not only a casual tissue which is red is rosabelle, but also what, how much is responsible? because a, if we're talking about the rules of law and international law in war, the commercial, the last and the was, we're tearing to the rules of, into the national little concerning the how to conduct a ministry operation. but under what circumstances can limiting food was to have met some not to be a little crime to 7 in population under what side we are not preventing the food because they said or to know we did not have,

we did not prevent the distribution of food to every person in the strip, every person the strip who are not to a hostages were given food and water as much as they wanted it to be addressed me and they be to come us. and we cannot be responsible for all crimes. the mouse has continued a committed and for which we were not responsible. the international court of justice recently throughout, refused to throw out that ization of genocide leveled at israel. the quote went so far as to say that at least some of the acts and emissions alleged by south africa to being committed by israel and gaza appeared to be capable of forming within the provisions of the genocide convention. do trust the court to rule fairly. i am not sure that the composition of the call to the guarantees

a farrah outcome. but the fact of the matter is that the court did not all of the a cessation of hostilities. it did not all till the end of the war in a month from now, israel will be presenting reports on methods that they called has requested to be examined by israel. and i think that by the judge of all those who believe that the call to a to get up and a simply uh, a whistle, a, a look for claim that the houses are still dismissed. and this has not happened. and the call to and its composition is another called which is a automatically, uh, uh, on his ro side. now if it told me with that we have a, a button judge you as a very problem man and a very capable of a man and a very honest man and an international lawyer of the, of great repute. and he's there as well. and i think that to,

from the point of view of israel, the result, the nets, results the nets, results of the decision of the i, c j, is that we can continue the operation. and that's what we're doing for mazda is a militant, is the best organization, designate is a terrorist group by the us and many other countries. that is what we're seeing, revenge what your prime minister cold might, the vengeance or self defense. i don't want to be responsible for a wonderful uh, the statements of the problem is that you don't have much time. and uh, i don't think that this is something which i have to repulse on all to protect. so to defend. what i will say is that i believe that we are acting in a way which is a commiserate with international law on come back. an estimated

26000 palestinians, 101-1500 children among them. huge areas, reduced to rubble of, to, to monetary and suffering. another $10000.00 children be left without i, the parent of mother or father. does that come to a point where it can you view? it's morally indefensible to continue inflicting so much death on innocence with the how must plays a role this role that corolla parent is. well, you still in the role of execution? yeah, someone that will began on a certain day when i'm us, evaded israel. and the 1st day was the day of and which are the type of the, the actions that the forces took. all of the genius of those types of ice cream and data to bid. i can imagine raping women trying to take out the

babies from the rooms of the taking the people his buddies, and cutting them up in thoughts which would prevent it even identification. i think that is where it is never enrolled itself in this kind of activity. and i don't think that we should be responsible for what become must have done in the 1st days in which they were active. i have myself a travel it in the south and seeing entire villages that being the become ruins. small the towns and is road in the south where people can no longer live for the moment. and i think that once we entered the area of the, what we wanted to do is to push the inside population as far as weight. good. down to the south in order to limit the number of people who are innocent and would not be liable to suffer as

a result of that. and i think that in many ways we have the, i paid the price for that for the some of the cases in which people have been killed and being treated not to speak even of the way the hostages are being held. which is obviously a matter which is absolutely totally against international to and the people, the young people, baby is children, the elderly people, all these people being kept in a know in a way which i think is the most distance you can imagine in terms of what international permits, you were asked in an interview last year, what you would say to the people of guys in the wake of this destruction, the new replied i would say to the people of guys, or that it's your fault that you have paid hosts to this group do really think that

but i didn't understand what the materials say. do you really think it's the fault of the people in gaza on the people in god's, in that they tried hostile, homeless eh, i think that it's their responsibility if they believe and understand what the most of the doing to them for many, many is, is against their interest is there a duty to rise up against the homeless activity by the way, in recent days, that will be in the growing demonstrations and the self of, of a uh, a guy is a strip against some us and people who are accusing the most exactly of the things that i have mentioned, but they live with and so with some of the executions torture repressions, those who protest routinely being arrested, tortured, beating, subject to arbitrate. the touch of ale cheat is it. is it really fair to claim that

organ regardless, is paid, hostile must, when in fact, many kenny bookshop cowed and beaten into submission by this group, pulled back. yes. but we do not to have responsibility for the way the son must race their own population. that's not our job and it's not our uh, should we say a desire that the they already population should be treated the way the car must repeat to treat them if they wants to change the situation there, it's for them to rise up and it's for them to go through the most uh, i think that is the book it we shouldn't be expected. i don't think it's our job to save the population of goes up from what the come us doing to them. but we now know israel actively assisted in the funding, that's how my student is account to wait to the post and into effect in order to keep private students, dest,

united. so that i'm able to form their own govern of israel, do use to the end to send a monthly quantity of, uh, of uh, food and other things. uh, also financial help from us on a uh, monthly uh, uh, agenda to gather with the categories and uh, this enables the from us to, into some ways to uh, maintain it. so i'll talk to you in the, in the gaza strip. the they were in charge the and we did not want that they should be unable to buy food and to do other things as well. by the way, i would say for many years, the people, the from the, the gaza strip. a used to enter a israel daily as workers, and this also gave them the private and also of funding. and these

really the hospital, the system has ro i played hosts to many people in the some us who received treatment there. and also underwent a very complicated operations in the best hospitals we have. so i didn't think of it is any way to choose israel. and this way of, of being uh, uh, improper in its treatment of the mouse. if you take the entire to over so many is israel trying to create a new buffers and gaza, whether it's move it's borders into gaza. and despite the opposition care opposition from america, i do not believe that israel will enter the gaza and overtake possibly the territory. there is a part of the of the,

of the connects. it's of these. we have apartments. has it one or 2 potters which would like israel to a return to the as a after we left gaza by the way. uh, ask of our own, but ition the decision to lead because uh in uh, 2005 and 6 was a, a decision of israel. you still controlled everything that went in and out. yeah. it's basically a lot of goods, but we're going to have to because of our own, but ition and, and it was the, the desire of the vin prime is the shuttle. and that we should not negotiate. we should simply leave and not to impose upon them that any uh act. so any obligation towards us. a uh, i think that uh, that was uh, in my way, uh, in my an estimate i'd say a wrong thing to do from uh,

point of view. i don't believe in any of those asian, which on some is a you say, ok, i'm going to move the the area and do whatever you wish. i think it would be better if we had negotiated with them. that was the wish of mr. shut on. because he didn't want to recognize them as a force in the area and it just them, it force in the area. but they were afraid to do what they wanted to count. prime minister has ruled out a sofa and palestinian state a 2 state solution. your west and allies are insisting that there is a pathway to palestinian state. how do you get there? do they deserve palestinians? thank. do you want to see why i'm? i'm come to ever be peace if that is. and i believe the ultimate and my personal opinion is that uh, ultimately, uh, billing be a palestinian state. that is my understanding of what will have over the state

a southern states. yes. the southern states. uh, it is also uh my understanding that if the palestinians are able to get that house in order and this is for them, i think a, you need a, uh, a chance to uh, be able to achieve sovereignty. if cause this will only be achieved, if they do not uh, continue to uh, allow a tenor isn't to be bused as a tool against israel, but they have to have something to hope for something i think. so. i think the, some of these real has taken that away. i think that the, in, in, in a real negotiation between us and them. i think we could reach a understanding which would be supported by the international community by the arab

load. we are also in touch on these that matches together with united states and with saudi arabia. and to some extent, even we've cuts out to see to it that there would be an option, a viable option for a better city and state and one way or another. and if there is one, we have just one more often another. i hope not. i don't want to be a despondent in advance. i want to hope for the better to uh, i think that uh, maybe uh the time will come when the majority uh, on the other side of the border at the moment. well the realize that it isn't that interest to find a motor as a vendor with israel, a 5 mile away and sprinkler tab down complex. so thank you. back on the side of the

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