which leads to other questions like how families organize themselves and what role the state plays and providing care options. and that's all we have time for, for now, for this episode of business beyond. we thank you for watching. and we hope to see you soon. the following super tuesday, it's looking ever more certain that the us election in november will be a re match pitting incumbent president job either against his predecessor and rival donald trump. 2 elderly white man vying to leave the us into the future with very different visions for that future on issues from energy to immigration, from abortion, to taxes, and on foreign policy. many americans are tired of acting as world policeman and pay master salvage choice. they make could transform america's role in the world.

today we're asking trump versus buying a race that poses worldwide risk. the hello and welcome to to the point. it is a pleasure to introduce our guest starting with ralph one and he is the vice president of republicans abroad germany. i'm also pleased to welcome matthew cottage, nick. he is a chief europe correspondent for political based here in for less and engine. no. do milan is with us, she's dw, is washington correspondent, and she joins us from the u. s. capital, great to see you. and to know, i know you've been traveling around to a number of the states that did in fact a vote in the primaries on super tuesday. what were your main takeaways from that experience? or?

well i suppose and a sentence judging from what we've seen from the results as well donald. * has a firm solid group on the republican party and jo from done on we just have to hold onto our seats. and are we sure that this will indeed be a rematch? there are a lot of complicated variables surrounding both candidates, aren't there? yes, there are. i mean, chief of them, i suppose it's a lot less complicated for joe biden, when we talk about when we talk about sort of the process and the yeah, their primary election process and how he is to be the candidate. he is the incumbent. but of course, there are complications surrounding his age. he might have in there, there is even talk perhaps of the possibility of replacing him during the convention. but this is, see, that's something that is quite unlikely indeed. and it would require

a lot of job items, cooperation. he would have to step aside to do that. as for donald trump, but nikki haley dropped out of the race. she was his only challenge or she did not manage to come close. somehow there was a problem becoming a, the republican nominee, if no republican seemed to vote you would like vote would seem to want to vote for you, her hold seems to be mostly on moderates and independence. so the only thing that may be challenging donald trump's candidacy, of course, at this point is under numerous legal trials. he faces, he is facing $91.00 charges across 4 cases. but even the timelines of those are complicated. they could bleed into well after the election and any conviction after the election might then render those legal cases moved. so i'm going to, i want to come barring yeah, very significant events. yeah, thank you. i want to come back to the legal cases. i'm in a bumper, i want to come back to them in a moment, but let us 1st talk about some of the vulnerabilities that both of these candidates

do have um and ralph, despite the rezoning support of his base, donald trump seems to have some trouble winning educated, suburban voters, those are essentially many of the ones who in fact chose nikki haley. and she quite explicitly did not recommend to her voters to vote for donald trump. will that wind up being a problem for him? absolutely. at least not at this point. she did not make any comments towards her voters, to support now donald trump, and that could be an awesome asset for her in order for further developments. maybe to put that into the res, maybe to support the on time. if there is a given take between 2 of them, but up to now, she has not declared anything. but more important. trump doesn't just not have the grip on the us republican party. she has all the grip now under delegates a at the convention. but i'm also remarkable is trump is really facing his

voters, a clean sound group of people. he's not building bridges to any thing in the middle or even more liberal. he's not building purchase, i'd make you healy would do. so he's only motivating his people. and if his he's proven in 2016 that, that could lead to the white house, but has also shown the mid term so it could also fail. so there is a bottom or ability at this point in a very narrow lead divided electorate. matthew, it's often said that that it will be key to when those undecided voters. interestingly enough, there are a number of undecided voters within the democratic party with in jo biden's base base. if we look at the super tuesday results, there were some states where we saw as many as 20 percent of democratic voters voting uncommitted to send a message to joe biden. again, could that become

a problem for him going forward? the buying campaign seems to assume they're going to rally around him eventually. so it could of course, become a problem, but i think it will depend on the next several months of the campaign. the campaign is only beginning just now. i think one factor that might not be getting enough attention here is the possibility that you could have up to 3 3rd party candidates on the ballot in many states, including robert kennedy, the, the son of the former attorney general of the united states who was assassinated in 1968, who is a figure that many democrats and republicans um find compelling. so this is the kind of thing where, you know, you could have a candidate in key states, drawing enough votes away from bite and that he might not win that state or drawing a votes away from trump. we don't know which way that will fall, but we have seen that in the past. we saw it in 2000 with george

w bush who beat our gore because there was a 3rd party candidate. then ralph nader and we saw it again in 2016 with hillary clinton because there was a green party candidate for wait around on. yeah. who was running again, and she's got a few 1000000 votes back then if i'm remembering correctly. so this is, this is the kind of thing that could really be crucial in the end to the result. let me do to now let me come back to those legal cases against donald trump. the 1st criminal case will begin on march 25th. this is a historical novelty. we have never seen a criminal case against a former us president. as you said, the case is involved 91 criminal charges, some surrounding interference with the 2020 election. it seems that the buying campaign believes that those cases will essentially crystallize resistance to donald trump, even among wavering republicans and certainly amongst undecided voters. do you think that is true? how much do voters actually know about these cases?

i think that's a very good question. and i can tell you from following all these cases, what i can tell you is that they're very complicated. and it is hard to imagine any sort of media and voter following the day to get the day to day on these cases with any sort of uh, with any sort of a deep assassination. the polling is kind of mixed on this. on the one hand, do do have undecided and moderate saying that they do not find it, they would not find it good at all. if a convicted criminal would become the president. on the other hand, you have the very committed trump republican voters who say that, you know, in fact, it does not matter at all what he does and they will, they will support him any way they are. they are right or die for donald trump. i

think what's the by then come, pain has been trying to do is while, you know, not waiting on these cases specifically because it would not be seen as appropriate for them to do so. i think what they're trying to do is kind of talk about these cases and how and what they mean in terms of in terms of voting for donald trump and why one should not do it. what they're trying to do is kind of attack it from a sideways way. so they talk about what donald trump needs for this a version of democracy. what, what, who sort of thought, what his attitude towards institutions will mean for the nation. so they're not, they don't seem to want to, you know, take on the cases directly and say, this is the reason why you should not vote for donald trump, but they are sort of alluding to them in a more symbolic kind of way. thank you. let's take a closer look at what this election could in fact mean for america standing in the world. in 1630 on one of the 1st votes of english puritans that set sail from

massachusetts. their leader gave a famous speech warning that the eyes of the world wouldn't be on america as it embarked upon the historic undertaking. and certainly that is true today. both allies and rivals are closely following an election that could have a profound impact on america's world in the world. with the middle east conflict us, president biden has a strategic dilemma on his hands. he's clearly on israel side, but he has to increasingly address the palestinians position in order not to lose non traditional voters. donald trump, on the other hand, is proclaiming that neither the war and gaza, nor the war in ukraine would have started with him in office. supporting ukraine with all available means is crucial to president, fight and in the fight against russia. but trump's republican allies have been blocking these very aid measures for weeks and it is the same with nato.

in contrast to biden, trump keeps questioning the nato alliance and threatening not to protect the member states that do not spend enough on defense. american public opinion is skeptical of china. both democrats and republicans are capitalizing on this by becoming confrontational with our asian rivals, biden or trump, who are friends and foes routing for and let me pass that question right on to matthew and tucker, carl. since interview with vladimir put to the letter claim that he prefers bide. do you think he was just joshing to? yeah, i think he was to use it sort of, you'd speak trolling, trolling the united states with that. he has a very good relationship is donald trump keeps reminding us with donald trump, so i would see no reason why put in would not want trump to return to the white

house. and how about this agent ping? who do you suppose he'd be rooting for here? if you really look at the concrete policies and positions of trump and binding, are they really all that far apart on china? know, and i think that's a very important point because both parties of the united states are now extremely hawkish on china. both see china as the main geo political arrival for the united states for the coming generation. and they see this as an unavoidable confrontation if you will. one that they hope will not result in an armed conflict. i think for the agent being, it might be the case that joe biden is a little bit more predictable. the problem i think, for a lot of world leaders with, with trump, is that you just never know what he's going to do. he threatens to pull out of nato . does he really mean that or does he just want to sell more weapons to the europeans? i think bite, and probably what we've seen so far is

a little bit more predictable on that front. meanwhile, ralph, many republican see in donald trump a strong man who can protect them in uncertain times. yeah, he, as we heard in the report, he questions the us commitment to nato conservatives, like the former us national security advisor, john bolton says he means it. does that really make america stronger? well, it makes it, 1st of all, less responsible makes it to his voters, may be less, i'm cost intensive, but i think it's a very, very dangerous game to violate international relations and also trust against domestic lead. um, you know, like i'm battles in order to get into the white house and i think this is very harsh. and if, if, if, if you look back in history, that most of the times did not convinced the voters. i think if you are supportive

to allies, i think this will also have in the long run also, and you will receive support. and in the and also the u. s. has fellas, bases around the world, he needs the logistics, some of the allies, he needs support from the allies. he cannot achieve this, us cannot achieve that all by themselves. i think it's also a given take relationship. it's not that easy just to step out of nato. and yet ralph, there are plans that were put together by a think tank that is known to be advising. trump, that referred to a dormant, they say beeping wouldn't necessarily have to pull the us out of the alliance. he could simply, for instance, recall the supreme allied commander who is always an american, or he could perhaps simply stop contributing money. yes. but we'll just have to see what's going to happen if he's in office. we just look back in history. when he, when he told the world that he will talk to and seem young one, the rocket mad and north korea. and then what happened after all,

and ignore square shot more missiles in into the ocean than ever before after the talks. so he said there, i don't believe at this time of the day with what kind of an arguments he would be able to a, to, to achieve his goals without his a lice. jenna many, meanwhile, many of those uncommitted democrats that we were talking about earlier are angry about joe biden's, middle eastern policies, most particularly the fact that they say he doesn't push is real hard enough to curb it's offensive in gaza. so far the administration has tried a very careful path in the middle east. would you expect to see it put more pressure on is real and future as well, considering that there is a very real chance that. d his is really policy could impact his re election child and his re re election chances. one could expect that they are looking at their

vast array of options in terms of how to pressure israel. i just wanted to note that i have been to michigan sort of the origin of this uncommitted movement and it is a state with a large era, but american muslim american population. and they feel very personally about this issue. uh and how israel has been treating gaza and in turn, the u. s. has unwavering support for israel. now, of course we're starting to see movement in the messaging already campbell, i heard a so just the other day use the word ceasefire. as far as, as far as i can remember, she's a, it's the 1st time she has done that. people are also waiting to see whether joe biden uses that word in the state of the union address. so which is going to be on thursday night. what, uh mm hm. there is also

a lot of talk around what exactly the u. s. can do. short of stopping weapons transfers to israel and stopping aid. there is the search many of arrows which are the options in that box, which many of those democrats do in fact advocate, but we could spend our entire show on that topic. so i will leave the middle east there. but i would like to ask you, matthew about isolation isn't because we're hearing a lot of talk about rising isolation, msm. and yet when we look back, weariness with so called endless wars has been with us for at least a decade or more. is it really any different this time or? well, i mean, this was the memory that it was by and actually that pulled the us out of afghanistan, which trump then it says. so, you know, these are sort of labels that people throw around and it, it fits well with the american 1st agenda, i guess in trump's base this is the kind of thing that they like to hear. but on the other hand, you know, you hear him talking about guys that the need to finish the job in guys a dis,

trump this week. so i think for the truck he can pretty much say whatever he wants on these international issues to his base and they're gonna lap it up. it doesn't really matter. i mean, he can, he doesn't have the, the challenges that bite in has with israel and gaza. for example, trump is all in pro israel and you know, whatever happens to everybody else doesn't really concern him. so that's a real advantage. i think for him as we entered the final phases of, of this campaign or the next, you know, 77 months or so. then let's switch and talk about domestic policy because in fact, many people say it is ultimately domestic policy. that is determinative of us elections. let's take a closer look at what the concerns are that are uppermost in the minds of americans, orders. the economy is the most important issue for us voters. in fact, the us is in better economic shape now than it has been in

a long time. unemployment as low inflation is falling, and the u. s. has the highest growth rates of any g 7 country. but many americans are not benefiting from this up swing, nor from rising stock markets. and other top issue is migration. hundreds of thousands of people across americas southern border, illegally every month. more than ever before, many americans find this frightening bite and is pushing for bi partisan border security. so instead of playing policy to the issue, why don't we just get together and get it done. but trump wants to seal the orders and is still king fears. we got 1516000000 people came in and they came in from prisons and jails. they came in from metal institutions and insane asylums, the terrorist, the drug dealers. the issue of abortion ever since the supreme court overturn the

right to abortion in 2022. there have been different laws in each state fight and is committed to legal access. trump is strictly against it. president biden has made climate policy a central issue of his term and office. the republicans, on the other hand, rely on cheap fossil energy and want to reverse biden's climate protection measures button or trump, which america will when pass that question straight over to ralph, combined with a reference to one remark by trump, that's gotten a lot of attention, namely his pledge to be a dictator for the day and to use that day, among other things, to close the border to mexico. that pledge even the reference to dictatorship doesn't seem to bother republican motor stood it. well, it should bother. i mean, one of the key assets of democracy is trust in, in,

in the legal system. and if you, if you cut that out, if you'd damage that i think as also demonstrate democracy, i believe it shouldn't do that. well. trump's, you know, an agenda is clear, um, if it comes to the economy, he just, he, he describes the us economy as a 3rd world economy is going down, is dying, but he delivers the solution himself. so 1st of all, that's the patient and the patient is suffering the us economy, but i'm the doctor. i can help you out. and that's his simple message in order to point out his um, his leadership to know when you talk to voters, what are you hearing about what issues are absolutely top of mind for them as well? you mentioned some yourself thought immigration and the economy the economy is proving a particularly sticky one, because obviously the by the dividing campaign has been hoping to really make it so really make its mark on voters with by the nomics, you know, broadly his handling of the economy is doing better,

but voters really aren't feeling it everywhere. i go. people seem inclined to blame bite in a for prices that have remained high and haven't gone back down since the pandemic . now obviously, you know, the, they're not going to come back down. this is the new normal and i think there is this hope that the closer it gets the election, the more people would have gotten used to the new normal of these prices. and the more they will start to feel the benefits of all the investments that the bite and administration has made into the country. this is something that he really wants to highlight, but so far it has not yet been reaching voters. so to say no to you, in fact, historically high number of american citizens say that america is on the wrong track. is that really driven by economics or something else? i think it's driven by the political environment, by the polarization, by everything that we've seen since 2016. there's no doubt because if you look at

on paper the data speak for themselves, the economy is doing pretty well. unemployment is the lowest that it's been over such an extended period since the 1960s. and you know, there is some hope in the democratic camp that these factors will start to filter down and people will start feeling it more. but you can see the importance of perception here on all of these issues and because of the bifurcated media environment in the united states now, where many people are just getting their information from a partisan source, be it on the left or the right the they, they don't give and receive other arguments that counter the narrative of one party or the other, and i think that is reflected in these, you know, we in, in, in the surveys about the economy. certainly, you know, if i come back to our title, we ask whether this is a race that poses worldwide risks by stoking polarization and both candidates are doing that. are today in a way, playing with fire. well,

i think we're seeing that all over the world, to be honest, this isn't just an american phenomenon. certainly they're playing with fire. but once you go down this road and we started down this road a long time ago in the united states it's, it's hard to, it's hard to turn around and, and this is where we are. some people think that this election will ultimately bet it'd be about democracy. other people say, oh, that's ridiculous. you know, trump is a democrat. the dictator comment was just a joke. you can't take him so seriously. and you know, this is unfortunately, the dynamic that we have now in our, in our political debate. let me ask you uh, to talk to this very quickly if you would ralph about the same point. uh, in fact a bite and is saying, trump is ready to sacrifice democracy to put himself in power. donald trump is warnings that the country is dying, that it's becoming a 3rd world country. how worried are you that by playing the fear card, both of them are undermining the trust that is essential to democracy? well is definitely damaged to democracy and i believe it is getting worse sides.

and so what i would at, even after the, the, the, the nomination of the candidates in the summer, i believe afterwards. we'll see you, we'll, we'll fist fight. and i think this will create a lot of damage to, to the market. and again, what's the political message, trump is just motivating his his, his on voters. he has a sharp group of voters and they support him heavily. but compared to i'm biting by and has the broader range, but he's not as supportive to his motor. so, so we'll see who's, who's going to win the battle to no one sentence a race with worldwide risk? yes or no? yes, definitely. thank you very much. all 3 of you for being with us, and i'm sure we'll have plenty of opportunity to talk more about the election and future. thanks to our viewers. take a look at our website and tell us what you think the of

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[000:00:00;00] the, this is the deputy news line from the potential new lifeline for the people of gaza with just a trick left, a region civilians us present. been joe 5 minutes to announce the establishment of a point on the cause a coast to facilitate the delivery of a central supplies. also on the program, to see a tax on international shipping turn. deadly demons revel. striker commercial investment, the gulf of 8 and killing 3 people survive as abandoned ship and to rescue by the indian navy. president bivens dear to deliver his state of the union address,