humans, we to review one. you have, you have a one does not delete this. of course you can respond and unexpected side supplies in presidential elections in russia of the usual full gun conclusion with nothing left to charles, not even the death in jail as the leading opposition figure. i'll explain about me whose name postern couldn't bring himself to speak. my guest is the russian commentary to andre kalashnikov, who heads the economy. he rush, are you ready just sent that in moscow. wasn't a valid the such a serious threat to put in his regime. but he had to be killed even be in prison, that when it was a threat to pretend that competitor maybe invisible in an information field about the same time, quite mighty, and way to compress it for, for the parts it was that population. and because of that, it was important to,

let's see, eliminate him from the political fuel. so what's it like to live with a government that kills its political opponents, unseen from moscow? why the southern states of warnings by nato officials about a russian attack over the next few years. what do they know? but we don't on the right color of welcome to complex of excellence. it's much, it's time for the presidential elections in russia of letting me a put in once a 5th time. that'd be my post and always gets what he wants is this is close to absolute power as it gets in russia. yes, so this is one more step to choose actual power. but so when we're asking yourselves where was this turning point for she seems as a decrease of michigan mostly because the development of history june was somewhere in the year 2020. when he told the referendum about some of the med,

most of the constitution, the main think about 0 and copious present initial terms. and now she is over to the president. and after that, all the doors were open for any steps from his sites like to this war of february 22, 22 unfortunately of no other means the same year 2020 it doesn't have much to do with democracy. it doesn't these elections, even mr. perkins spokesman, dimitry pest golf told the new york times last year, a presidential election isn't really a democracy. it's a costly bureaucracy. so why bother with this show? because this is one more attempt to, to demonstrate to the majority of the rough can population that they, they are still the majority, which is obedience, indifference and ready to continue to accept the contents initiatives.

and this is important, that's minority minority is a must understand that they are still minorities as they can to influence anything because this country because we have a majority which is in flash which supports proteins. so nothing to do with this political system. we can't change and i think because of that, so this election starts to know a significant is the same times. it's just one more really rounds aflac way not to, to repeat. so this kind of really and to refresher as a legitimacy or for your to correct. oh, credible candidates of being eliminated way before the polling stations opened bar? it's not just in the anti war candidate. he was disqualified by the states because some traction for awhile. was he a, a threat? was he didn't that's right. the edition was squares attracted to the public who was

liberal views. and you know, in the rush or millions of people who are sharing to liberal pro the critic pro western the anti portion of the vision of the world. and because of that, in addition to what kind of a folk for this people wednesday sent and it for she and it was understandable that's a criminal decide. it's not till auction to participate because she keeps it undermines the feeling of absolutes comes to the dish. and around put him in a case of getting, i don't know, 56, even 10 percent of it man into it could means that the paternity is not the only one who is so who does are. so the supports and there are people with the enter your agenda, not to mention the 10s of case. and that doesn't include demonstrates enter your agenda via television and the code. so shake because of use. so for the majority, which is still not connected to the tv set. so, so with no,

they decided not to not to risk. you run that slide risk. i'm alexa, nevada, me that in a prison camp in the optics circle, once he ever really elect, true threat to prove to or was it that he and others like him. we're never going to be allowed to get anywhere near that status. the one that didn't have an opportunity to participate in the legal political process. but so when she did participate in the year 2013 during moscow's mayor's elections, he was extremely efficient. astonishingly efficient for kremlin. and after that, they decided to, you know, to allow him to participate in any kind of like options. so if it was a real threat to put an end to some moments, it's a moment to the means that pasta the whole political process reduced, busy. now this is fine between the fall knee and approach him

and is that sense even being can prison that when it was a threat to pretend that competitor may be invisible in an information field about the same time, quite mighty and square to compress it for, for the parts of that population and because of that, it was important to let's see, eliminate him from the political field. do you by the story that he was about to be swapped for a kayla. so having time in germany, do you by that story? of, we don't know the truths maybe will not know it, but it looks like blows and bull story. and in that sense, simple, it wasn't requested dance. uh that she was, let's say, maybe killed maybe by some maybe something else. so we have to wait for some

results. so if you see what a search true maybe is the key on the clear up some good deals. and i found this family is pretty clear and his colleagues are pretty clear that the state did kill him. you wouldn't seriously argue with that, would you? i would say, likes the so the experience of this regime demonstrates that it's as possible. let's remember as a case of st policy or in any other cases and put in the several times repeated. you're anxious courier that the my pets, realty color oriented order. again, since people do that some of these and because of that among people with uh, let's say liberal views, there is no doubt that's nobody put the keels. uh no, no, we don't have the controls if evidence of it so,

but the feeling is very strong. comp, russian civil society. we know that they tried and failed to kill him back in 2020 and we know because the millions listened to a government assassin describing his previously unsuccessful attempt to kill him about me. little realizing that he was actually talking to him about the i'm being recorded by him at the time. so nobody's going to believe any government denials of a underscore. uh, you know, which means what do we mean by nobody to because of the majority to still to 1st to believe freedom main unofficial version. or prefer us not to think about this. the horrible story you know, so low to for russian. so they didn't know about the person, things that i didn't know about the, the so it's not what it means is in this camp near arctic circle. but

uh, the majority prefers not to boulder itself. uh uh, not to pay too much attention to, to this for us in order to keep for themselves mentally normal. um, this'll be more old, but the majority prefers not to know. and it seems about, uh like, uh, uh cuz you know, it is still with his dad, so i threw, it cetera. and because of that, that's more about belief. these belief among people with the normal view suisse a democratic, fused record, revive from a lawyer at the human rights group. memorial said, if they could kill no violently, they could kill anybody else. if he's right. where does all this and all the killings all the political prisoners. why does this and i know the real threat is to political prisoners. i'm sure we don't have

a political position in the proper sense of the words right now because of a higher level of impressions. kyra's in the, in names a substitute new new orleans of last year or so for his existence and i, i, i would say that unfortunately, for instance, people like to let him know cut them. it was a, or, yeah, yes. and could be under threats, but not everyone in dissidence community, but the main one of the most vocal people from mazda, of political a position, because barto was a political position as a broad sup parts. so for the literacy are in prison. so for people who are in prison, so there was a real threat, i think unfortunately, you spoke off the volume, this funeral about moral resistance among the population, people carrying flowers and candles to his memorials. how much of that more resistance is the less than russia?

i guess trends of sorts moral because as i said, political position isn't so efficient right now. and this is more about a moral resistance and about political resistance. this people can fight as a juvenile, to want to fight for power. they don't have for literacy, they don't have organizations which are totally liquidated by the regime, even small in jewels. but the dose of no, only demonstrates as a funeral and around the dentist way to that this civil society still here. we must be for a society of such which is very different from the passive and the full of confirm is and civil society, the society of responsible citizens who, to who for the best, who for the country, for in a permanent order because of this war. they've demonstrated that they are here,

it was actually a rich step for people club for, for we're going to was a funeral because of the, the face recognition system is working and sometimes a policeman are coming to a to is a flat. so it was this people after a different kind of evidence of funerals like the link flowers as a man, as a place, as of man, there we go for political repression, so it's cetera, et cetera. so if you want to see the so civil society in the rush, we can overcome. for instance, the website over then for with the concrete statistics about persecutions, about the criminal prosecutions, administrative persecutions, extrajudicial persecutions. a lot of examples of these kind of problems for russian citizens, but she resist civil society, which is still ready to resist and ready to at least to

think of all the constitution, think about so as a responsibility, collective responsibility you, you talked about values, legacy. i'd like to know how long you think it will last, isn't it inevitable that as the years go by, there will be less and less opposition? a moral or real repression works best and it progressions efficient yes for business work, but at the same time, no. this fatigue from regime is also sheer and in a case of a minor success for a civil society and demonstration that was to use uh, some people quite hesitating corpus difficult for me says they can't share the view sofa. and this actually, if a single society activities, so in that sense or actually isn't hopeless and i've seen it with just like and so the times we, when men else people were ready for change of skin color,

which of key when government, which refers to cook, the power ends is being a bunch of population is also ready for changes, but so, you know, in current circumstances kind of a single though must came from the very top and the was out a change in the 1st person, i guess. so the serious changes in russia are impossible. veteran now, extraordinary efforts and you've outlined some of them to, to clamp down on even the slightest infractions of this expanding penal code that the authors keep adding to. we hear of teachers in schools reporting a 1011 year old pupils to the security police books, a band people are arrested on the metro because they were reading something. but the fellow passengers didn't like every case pursued with the utmost vigor and brutality. and i suppose my question is, is the state really that's in secure about its hold on paul, and it's people,

you know, it smarter bell cell development of russian style. all sorts here is my would say this is not simply in a sort of terrorism is more about a name, it's high, but it's a tell it to it. and it's the same utilitarianism because the state is trying to infiltrate into all this for yourselves. a private life of people you to want it wants to control, for instance, theaters repair to ours. uh, uh, book markets, libraries, etc, etc. but nevertheless, this societies mother in law has it's this a sort of a well educated society and people are trying to keep for the private space to see more on more or less normal situation. and it looks us to print it's some, some movies are pretty cool cause appear in this such a strange hospitality or in space. so yeah. is there a difference?

the threats like denunciations from your competitor else, but the nose of us, it is still, it is still civil society and i can repeat it as not so hopeless and get the chance survives this period. but the, the space of labor to you for free to my snare rooms. this is through but if you wants to do something, you can try. and some people are trying to, to write to articles, to be vocal and to, to, to talk at least to talk about the current situation. it's, it's not a sales, or it's not help does it by the fact that so many ordinary citizens pay a willing to inform on each other on their colleagues and their families and their friends. how destructive is that to the fabric of russian society destroys trust of the yes it's true as to the trust is not so the strong side

of the society is a trust each other. but some people simply prefer not to talk with the unknown persons. they prefer to talk to canal so who they are trying not to be so vocal sitting in congress for instance, to say preferred not to discuss political issues. this is true, but you know, it's a same time uh again who, who wants to resist can try to do it. for instance, if there is such a new magazine which was initiated by the noble lord, it's a mentor more out there is a title going to be in the corporation was gonna butcher foundation. and this is one of the attempts to, to, to, to, to create something to you,

even in the circumstances. there was some problems with this magazine, but it is still in the fields. so why not to transfer this? i'll think uh, and let's see it's, it's a, it's contributes to something. so i hope for the future. when we talk about hope, let's also talk about the war in ukraine, which has, of course, exacerbated the repression level. good cough, leading russian sociologist says as a high degree of support for the war highest among the educated and the educated in moscow does not surprise you. yes, uh, is there a lot of surprising stories, especially in the field of mess psychology in meso searching. and uh, you know, this is all about people who are afraid of changing their life. so they are trying to avoid problems with themselves. which means that as a full flip, say,

double thinking of a pretending the war doesn't exist. so they can to avoid the mentioning fee to thinking about the boats. they trained not to do it publicly, maybe the same people, but who they want to continue as a career, as for instance, in the university. so something like that, but as a, a private spacing, their quizzes selected to us. and so we have time so they can discuss freely the current situation with the core with the some assessments which are not public. let's see, this is more about privates assessments private life. so this is more about double thinking. you said recent pay that pretend as make clear russia is fighting a permanent background war with the west. best argument gives is him his rational, his way to maintain power. does put in one fact war in your view.

oh yes, she wants me. she's a man in the truth or i'm sure is that, and is this personal, this decreasing, put in was the main source of, of this war. was this idea. ology, which justifies for the russian id, was nation alanta in nationalistic and imperialistic ideas. very archive and the deals to the, to the tradition send the spiritual values, et cetera, et cetera. and she must invent. so the goal for the society. so is this just not coping is more capitalism and they invented some kremlin this permanent for it was the best, the best was also taking us. so we must defense our sales. and even though we're expect expansions, this is kind of, this is more about defense. and uh, the reason the reports re, so i'm sorry to interrupt you,

reset the intelligence reports in the west of suggested russia. it intends to double the number of its troops on the border with the baltic states and finland. and people have spoken officials, government officials in several countries have spoken of the fact that that could possibly be attacked by russia on the nato countries over the next few years. how plausible do think that these things is suspicious. p r. o to be so then to to, to, to, to look so mighty, so impressive. uh, uh, and i guess he wants to create i am, she's a political philosophies. this is a part of russia for sure. and she wants to return and strengthen as he says. so this territories it, she doesn't care about voltage stays freelance or, or pulled this as a lip service. in my opinion. she will not have enough resources for one more flank,

one more front. uh, she simply wants to continue this permanent toward was the best as a goal for the society, but at the same time in the practical terms and apply it to her. and she doesn't want to, to take the, for instance, voltage stays because it will mean the real world was native. it would be much more serious. so that's just sort of attrition. that was ukraine. does nato know week to russia to put in a not. so we could but to what was this very majority of the society, which in looks like a strong man, coolly who is equal to the tomato nature. this more of both a mature for the main enemy and united states of america. nathan in europe is kind of as such a line to of uh, of nato in the ends of united states. you said last month that despite all the new,

clear se but rattling, but we've heard from fulton, they don't want the afraid of nuclear war. what makes you so sure of that held as a you know, so as you settled, they must understand that. so even the use of the technical the ukes could be suicidal for uh for say every gene for the country. uh they want to leave for. they want to enjoy this life and because of that, so yes, so the, so nuclear black mailing, she's quite impressive and quite effective as it is quite effective because it's presented to prevents as the west from giving the sophisticated weapons to you. correct? yes. as a problem for actually so that's a very conversations that talk about the nuclear, where it became such a light. my talk, we can do it. why not? this is a main danger to proceed. so the domestic public's death. it is possible. this is

a danger. a british historian wrote recently that society is like russia, autocracies, don't bend, but they can break. do you believe that after all russia has broken, the soviet union broke up, the budding wall came down, communism was denounced as a failed experiment. under what circumstances do you think russia could conceivably come apart? now, you know, when we're talking about this, the future ends, the behavior of our leads. they're behaving like that, according to the drover up in order to look after us as it is a slot. and in that sense, they hopelessly, as they have enough resources to continue this work until the physical end of uh, putting them to his team. but uh,

the resources could be depleted and the next generation though, for petitions they will have to take responsibility for the country for the european security. and this as an interest of the west coast call and interest mutual interest of the russians at west said to have a new generation of people who can recreate discounts for you from 0 this summer full count because the resources i'm not to the terminal. so the bills are full, russia, that's like saying the value you talked about does exist somewhere down the line and you'll view it exists in the, in your soul, southern brain. so for pro democrats and russians as they are here and those they will be ready for changes when the time will count. i'm very proud of. thank you very much for being on conflict. so thank you. thank you for having me here. the,

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