slash drones during this attack and health israel by doing so defend itself. but as i said by my calling time you out as usual, i'm the by the administration is very, very, very keen on really putting a lift on this. now. 1 iran apparently has concluded or has said the un mission the, the wrong and mission permanent mission at the u. n. has early on relatively early on said today, still a said, okay, that concludes the matter for us. we originally retaliated and the by the ministration is now as we also reported in telephone calls and communication with, it's really kind of prod, saying now a return to measured responses is necessary, not a retaliation by israel to not escalate this into a wider, full scale regional comp, and we can speak now to hands you all commissions are a senior director of the counter extremism project. thank you so much for speaking with us on the w news. i'd like to start with your thoughts on what has happened

here. what do you make of the a tac last night? thank you so much for having me. it was really a you raining explanation which is nicholas and unfortunately, really complicates things, but it was an escalation, again within the reading and twist. so what happened is, immediately after the drones and the records for launch from the ring in the territory, united states tv officially announced the launch giving these re lease hours in the case of the drones. and very long time the case of the missiles to actually get ready to defend themselves, including with the help of the men i can. so clearly the radians wanted to show make a show force and minimizing the damage that the actual force would uh meet upon is around. um, in a including then of course getting the un mission. yeah. new york. and there's going to be a security council meeting later today. evening time in germany again,

new york on this attack, getting the right emission of all places to announce that this could be it from our side. this is already on the ation case closed. if you choose to close the case and then having the family representative to say we no longer want any escalation. and we only made use of our right to self defense according to the writing cop. which of course, totally negates the points that it has to be a proportional response. and then that rockets and drones is not exactly a pop in the eyes of the radiance a proportional response. so if i understand you correctly, it sounds like you think in this case, iran needed to be seen to be doing something in response. do you think that iran it could have mounted a stronger attack and whether this was something it considered? yeah, i mean to have him put on all the stops, don't forget. so his spot is it packed and the extension of the re,

new regime in liberty county does have a very sizable house. now that has the potential to actually over around is really a defense as, as we have seen in ukraine. it's not the individual side drones of uranium. so the problem, it's the number of sight drones that i fired. that is the problem in this number that was fired last night really was not sufficient to. busy around these really defense is not, in my opinion, what the design to do, so simply show a force inside there on. now, of course the resume celebrates these. as the great success of the problem is all the sites i forgot to turn into. these really is not for most of the trends because it is i'm present into that is the 1st times and since not me, revolution, but you're on the tax itself from each time we don't know why i broke seek as well . but also do you mean you really failure to get anything literally anything in israel means they now just demonstrated that potentially their systems are not good enough to withstand is around which then of course was what on the middle of those

. and he's ready to say, this is a good time to do a very for us for responds and will be of a lift. the price goes to the readings just showed us their systems, not as good as they thought they were. so with a deterrents compromise, as you say, do you think that now after, after almost a more than a decade of proxy war, some kind of threshold has been crossed here, where we've seen a direct iranian attack on his really swell. i'm just a small correction. the proxy war between is really the wrong, didn't stop, they get a go and started much, much longer to go from the beginning, the enmity and they need against israel was part of the core ideological tenants of these let me group optical, 3 rock. so it's been at a higher level in the last decade, but it's always been there. it's always being one of the, as i said, core ideological themes of the main reason. what happened now is really be in a new situation in the middle east. and there's really no good way out of this

because both sides have to find and use it. really read them again and we have not yet that, that it becomes clear what that you really feel actually would mean. how concerned are you about the likelihood of escalation here? how do you expect to be as re lease to react? i mean, it's a very, very, very 10 situation. and any misstep from either one of the sites is going to really detroit potentially uncontrollable escalation. yeah, we already have a what you're shooting war not only with guy but also with a full face and is pull out for many, many months since october 7th. and we now have this direct attack here, if these really responds is attacking inside the rod. and then they're also the levels of escalation that we use ratings could choose, they could just simply attack some of the many james donations for which those records and drones launched. this would be

a classic us response to hit those spaces from which you are attacked by these radius could also decides to last the finally solve what these really government has always said he's, they may just read the actual speech, but it won't be wrong if it's nuclear program and attack the they ran into threatened solutions inside the rod, which would be a now the major major explanation hands. these are named us officials. why you know, talking to the media. united states saying, i'm biden said to nathaniel, i won't be able to defend you and be, i haven't dropped on your side, but we will not support your manual offensive operations inside the wrong. now if this is really what the american president sits to the biggest read your prime minister was country just got attacked. it is a very, very, i'm president statement from anybody can a president. and it really shows how deep deep the concern is in the was administration that this now and get out of control. do you think the us

administration is also concerned about spread outside the region as well? you know, i mean my personal assessment was that it's very likely that maintenance would respond with the tax against is randy. diplomatic and also she institutions outside the future. and which is something that the maintenance have done before i remind you that was attacked in uh, south america in argentina, against the embassy and a control center in ninety's ninety's, even in berlin, where you are right now. in 1992 there was coming off from ag remaining exile politicians. and then we can also tax there was a bombing, obviously the tourist in 2012 in full gospel dario. so you're in, iran has demonstrated that you can also attack and strike outside of the region with the help by the way of respond operatives in each one of these days. so, you know, there are levels of retaliation that you're on has not yet taken. and what do you

expect around proxies in the region like has the law and the who the rebels to do here to? well, i mean one has to defend differentiate between the proxies and the control that you're on ultimately has with its proxy. this now is paula is a 100 percent remaining creation. it was at the core of forming his phone off during the civil war in live and on the 1980s from the on the same. so is it really is an extension of the stomach republic, either proxies, especially the whole face, of really being newly added to the union portfolio folks. he's only really after 2015 and the attack or so they may be out there for you or e n d r states. under with these in yemen, you mean in see a opportunity yet strength and their relationship build up the fees in order to essentially net their regional rival. so they read the a fleet. now the one piece i left for less in depth. it's due to convenience and these are nice and therefore you run with i'm always be able to go that route these

to shoot if the maintenance ultimately can tell that with these to stop shooting and they will, that still remains to be seen. for example, leave for months now, really being attempts to tom tom down the fees and to tell them that it's not worth continue to harass shipping the right seat. and i will find the means even if the drive doesn't seem to be able to stop there. so the escalation can also come inadvertently by these folks, these, oh, are you know, in various measures of control of as you say, we've seen shipping disrupted in the red sea? what you think the effect here might be on energy markets? if we do continue to see an escalation of the region to so far international transport tasks managed to emerge a real crisis. and then when it comes to the red sea, of course contain a spices of double shipping insurance have tripled,

and ships need to go now around the african constant, which adds 10 days. however, this is not really affecting energy, it explodes sofa. however, the radians just before they launched those records and drones actually took a is really own or link chip to the sodium group of the offer. i v m s m s. c. our use in the straight up from was off the portable data uh to try it out hostage. essentially like pirates to guy like opt out and basically forced the ship to enter in the reading hob. now if this continues, the straight, the foremost is actually a very large energy supply route, not only for saudi and u, e o l, but also for energy from tom, which supplies in a major way of australia and japan, and then and increasing manner. european union during germany because as the, the german government, i mean your sign gas and

n g deals with cut in parts and substitute the gas and they no longer purchasing promotion. so any dropping industry to from what was of course, a major emitted set for energy prices on the growth. however, this is also a huge loose proposition for the maintenance because that time cuz also need to straighten, needs the straight for or for most and us has enough military assets in the persian gulf to make sure if other ships conte, leave for and definitely rain and time does also won't be for inter street, so this is hopefully escalation stage that you mean is that not to contemplate to be taken whatever these rates that will centers if you could tell us what kind of diplomatic efforts we've seen from israel's allies in europe, including germany to try to de escalate the situation here. well, in the run up to this uh, the american administration really put all pulled out all the stops. they were very

clearly communicating. i remind you, a prison by them said simply, don't let the radiance shouldn't attack israel. they asked the china techie germany, the u. k. your pain stage as well as ab states to talk to the radians to tell them not to do this. i'm not enough. this came to formation. now of course the is going to be the g 7 meeting later today. that is the security council. think china has already warned against escalation. it is certainly not in the interest of russia to see it's new and you found allowing your brain walking around significantly weakened. so there is significant, the forces that i'm told down. do you mean? so it's all really depends on what these really decides decides. now, when your main design a very uncomfortable position, you'll always can decide to start an explanation. you're rarely on the one voice deciding when to stop. well, thank you so much for joining us today with your insights that attends young option

there from a counter extremism project. we appreciate your time. thank you so much for having me, us. and that is our show for now. i will be back at the top of the hour with more news headlines. thank you so much for joining us. the . this week we are a library of capital old ones over us. the concept of the, for the nation should tell me a little bit about that. there are rules,

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said they're never giving up or to sign every weekend on d w the this week on the 77 percent street debate. i believe the main uh the weekend being or as i would say um independent. does that bother you? yeah. well, mine was based on this, it may even be a hot spot in the old. we sometimes think of them as babies. yeah. alpha as possible. when you come on the baby, we're sure to allow weston us to impose the quadrant understanding of what a family is. one african wasn't, was not ready. ok, cool for well i do, but i, i can't read it. enjoy. and when you find me x or the even holding have let me re a feeling so single today on this.