is required tomorrow today on devin, enjoying the views and come to take a look at this out to the highlights every week in your inbox, subscribe now and does being referred to as the next global supervisor with significant economic growth in deal has become a solid off the international partner, thoughts behind and deals growth story. now the more the has been and follow for the last 10 years and he seems to be on course to win a toad consecutive to him as a prime minister of to both largest democracy modems to modernize india and throwing it into a significant geo political class. he's skilfully navigating between the major follow blocks and for the should make india as the voice of the bill of a solid. so down to the point we are discussing is india and the more the on under

data. so by the hello and welcome to to the point i'm, you show a party, assign him here in berlin and today my guest thought was the jail and now he is an ex german diploma. he wasn't bossa to of to him need to india from 2019 to 2020 to join. sandoval is head of global dialogue on presentation of the bill republic policy institute, g, p, a in berlin. and joining us via skype, from handbook we have media, improve thompson, cheese leaders such a major search fellow at the german institute for global ad adf. so they've got a very long to come to all a few. thank you for joining was, are you have

a long standing relationship with india un that as a 21 year it'll or to discover the country to discover yourself, and then you to diode as a mazda bill. now you've seen him deal from 1970 is to 20 twenty's. how hasn't yet changed? well as, as a lot of things, in india, everything is to other countries onto to, so it has not changed at all. and it has changed completely. no, it did change completely because of course it's no more than the state. you don't see the elephant on the streets anymore and you have of skies is a scope as everybody, if you go to move by this is a different, a different rules. now every the, the cause i'm more than 0, it is nothing reminds you on the india for 50 years ago. but if you look deeper and then you see to the ritual to see, to do see to the culture 7000 views in incoming comparison to 7000 useful just 40 or 50 is nothing's all you have to reach was you have to campus if the most cuz you have all the culture of the insignia and, and the so this is all,

it still doesn't have to go through run india, you'll find the india of which you have seen 50 years ago, maybe 200 years ago. so modern india with traditional values. now you're not only an extra for the module, also musician. you'll also an all time you've written a book into a 95. me think about it a little later on state and save the old address on the new south. what we should learn from india before it is too late. what should the rest loan from india? for those points, of course, one is to see the europe and the rest is not the rest of the road. it is 20 percent of the roads and 80 percent of the roads are a global sales countries. so when the heads of the very often we look too much into a euro, scientific way, german centigrade and think this is what the rest of the world has to think. no, it is not. because still other points if you're in the rest of the world. so this is, you'll see a more globalized world with indians indians have, have, and uh, all the indians living in our countries, in the most of the condition of,

of the was maybe in 190 countries. you have with us for an indian desperate. then of course, did you this ation done a young, a young, a generation 50 percent under $35.00. and then you have to risk taking into bruno ships innovation to god, which is something typically new also. so there are lots of things which we can learn from india and most of all the, the shoots they decayed more time and should listen to india. thank you. let's go to a medium. medium voltage is gave us a glimpse of how india has changed in the last 5 decades. now, if you could specifically tell is how india has changed in the last one decade on the more deep. could you think there's a picture? yes, i mean i fully agree that that's a lot of continuity going on. um, i mean with my focus on sort of in yes, foreign policy and in the field of stature, i think the addition to play, and i think this is a quote from

a ministry or external sales report to play the rightful place at 2222, re se received the rightful place on the world stage. i think what has changed significant, significant base that india is now very close to this sort of self defined a global role. and i think moody them and his sort of very vicious, international outlook on it. the global position, i think has contributed a lot to that. so i think um, where is india has always been on the way of reaching global stature of having a extremely important and retro my school position has always been there. i think it's never been closing to joseph for actually achieving this. now you'll go out to the report card in the off to 2024 elections and more the same set to win this election. so yeah, what do you think is going to change in the next 5 years under moody?

i would expect not too much to change. i think the challenge is, i mean the most domestic through them in the, at keeping up. so if the economic development and the economic growth at the level that that india needs to be to achieve some rich goals. i mean, that's been calculations that well in order to reach the, the, the size of, of marketing the size of the economy that is aspire to any growth rates of 10 percent. and i think that's a massive challenge. so i think that will be probably more or they're just very likely to be more engagement, more reforming the sector. i think in terms of again, foreign policies. i think in yes, doing a very good job at the moment to to go for its own interest in the way. so i don't, i do not expect too much change, but more going to genuity on, on that right front the, you'll see any change in the next 5 years. i think the big thing for the moody governments will be to really keep up this promise of, you know,

making india developed country by 2047. the economy is growing at a 7 percent g, d, p growth rates, which is very admirable. and it's set to leap frog germany and japan, if it continues that to 3rd position behind the us and china. and so i think the economy and ensuring that job creation is there because it has an average 8000000 people go into the labor market. they need jobs to make it competitive and to also finding ways to continue not only economic growth but counterbalance to different security, and the challenges that it has in the region. and making sure it in gauges with partners across the globe. while at the same time, protecting its own national interest, which is economic development. so i think the big hurdle will be to continue this and i think that will be the biggest challenge for the, for the government to continue talking about the economy. me,

my voting is on the way in india, an open in full suggest an easy victory for not into more days. the heart, the agenda about the to be to be. so why doesn't more the have to worry about any opposition in the election? it seems to boil down to the often repeated phase. it's the economies to but would also do more. these identity politics induce 1st. that's the ideology being used by prime minister moody to govern the world's largest democracy. and it's making him popular around 80 percent of indians are hindus, minorities, and opposition. members, on the other hand, have reported instances of intimidation. moody is popular because he has invested heavily in infrastructure and launch the social programs. during his 10 years of leadership, india has gone from 10 to the world's 5th largest economic power surpassing its former colonial ruler. great britain. india also wants to overtake germany and japan, by the end of the decade, the what the other high profile successes like the 2023

moon landing only underscores in these impressions to become a high technology nation. and yet poverty is still invisible problem and a country of approximately $1400000000.00 people with an average annual per capita income of around $2400.00. india barely out earns nicaragua, demographics, democracy, and diversity. from moody's point of view, this trip effect is responsible for india as new york. right. is india on its way to becoming a superpower? let's go to a medium and understand what is a sofa file. exactly. everyone's talking about india being the next supervisor, but what does that mean as well? i think i think it's hard to going to be talking about super powers in the current international systems. i think we're going to talk about several great palos or oppose in our, in our sort of multi polar system. but i do think, i mean, very concretely, it means for in the likely seat and the un security council,

for example, it means to play. and i think that's trying to india a string to not having to decide for one or the other for china or for the united states. i think that's one particular power that it yeah at the moment exposes, um, and i think it's a b, b not being able to be overlooked in importance of well political decision making the climate change. be it a, whatever resolution to their ukraine, cries it, be it sort of the next pandemic, so not to be overlooked, and to be considerate in and to actually not only be considered as by to shape sort of the rules or norms that are gonna structure the solution also the global challenges. so i think that so considering all of that in your opinion is india on the right path? is india on its way to becoming us? what about um yes, i do think that in. yeah,

um is going to have to be considered in all of these issues. i mean, if we're looking to climate change, the paris balls cannot be achieved without the indian action on climate change. for example, india does have to watch out that it's sort of, it's, it is rising conflict of tensions with china, of distracting it much from the past. but i do think overall now as the sort of indian moment in the sort of times of polarization and conflict where you can play this sort of independence foreign policy out to its own strength. the right good. when we talk about sort of our economy plays amazing and you were talking about the economy of, you know, there are these 2 extremes. you have the rising economy, the infrastructure is getting better, absolutely. no doubt about it of whoever has been doing there recently would say that the apple, it's a matter that i'm gonna have is that more data is etc. but forward you an unemployment data mean big issue as well. how does that go hand in hand?

look, i mean, india and indians have ambitions and aspirations. right? india is being quoted by countries all over the world. it says, you know, it's the voice of the global self. it has an economy that is the 5th largest in the world. but at the same time, it has a wealth gap that is tremendous. and it's got one of the largest income discrepancies in the world between those were really wealthy and those were really 4. but you have to keep in mind that the indian government has to do a balancing act. on the one hand, it's trying to go in the economy, but it also has to, it's responsible for 1400000000 people in this country. and it's not going to happen overnight. this will take time and the india is one, the world's largest democracy's. it's one to misuse democracies and you know, it's not going to just happen from one day to another. it's not going to happen within a decade. it'll take decades. so, um i do question if india is on its path to becoming

a super power in the most traditional sense, right. like if you talk about the us hedge many decades ago, i don't think i think that will just behind us. but india is an important power, it's an influential power and it's voice matters. and it will increasingly matter as we move forward. but i asked is because it's symmetrical and intuitive that the economy is rising and yet they need an economy is not able to generate employment for such a big huge it does generate employment and the government will tell you that it, it has generated employment. but the issue and critics, what they say is that the employment is in low paid jobs in agriculture and in jobs that are involving dates like they jobs, where much of it gets unpaid. for example, women do a lot of unpaid care work. so it's not that to jump to not there, but they're not necessarily the jobs that the youth and people coming out of university want because it's not being generated as quickly as 8000000 people enter

the workforce annually. that's the challenge for any government surveys show that you're unemployment is one of the biggest issues in this election. despite that most of your domains extremely popular and especially amongst butte, how do you explain that popularity? but like i said several reasons, of course one is, i mean he is, he is $12.00 twice a landslide victory. you can win of a landslide victory and the world's biggest democracy without being popular. so something along the way he must have done right. that people vote go out and vote for him in such a must be for a 2nd. um, there must also be some of something in the records which he lives behind. economic reforms of shop creation says, confidence, building and other things of which are positive to devote us. thirdly, i think of course the concentration on his person and his p r machinery around him

is also make, seem uh, a pop star um with fellow follow us like for our obama, i guess, and inch popstars. um so, so there are lots of reasons and of course i was maybe one of the reasons is the critics say he's not, he's the, the, the, into the station of the country. of positives is new set is raising the self confidence and awareness of indians that they have a set in 1000 via all unit culture. of course, criticize this is shrinking spaces for the, for saving society, whatever. but this, the, both of the decides. but i think there are a lot of reasons and after all this, he has also a kind of a background which is a very humble family background and is kind of us, kate, the lifestyle while maybe others into opposition cuz they don't have this and then it has also had an old position which was for

a long time not really sure of. should they go for elections and should dave, which would be, who should be the candidate. so this was also a fact to be checked in. i would, i agree with the investor said, but i would respectfully also challenge this notion of why he's so popular. it's not just because of everything he said, but the critics have said that he has glowing mainstream media coverage at the expense of suppressing press freedom. on the other hand, opposition leaders have their finances frozen in the bank. so it hampers campaign financing. and you also have opposition leaders who are imprisoned on n t corruption charges shortly before the run up to the election. so when you close down the spaces, it's not too difficult to become the main voice that people see. people here give it to you that he's done a fantastic job with social media since 2014 elections when he 1st came on. he

really capitalized, but it's let's not paint or overly rosy picture. i think there's still a lot to be scrutinized and that's always $65.00. i mean that's what it's in terms of lens light. i mean, we are, we have sort of 1st past the post election system where like 42 percent give you a vast majority in the parliament. so i think there's a lance light also is sort of an effect of the voting system. and you have to do it more than half my body for moti as well ma'am, if you're going to follow the report that we just played in the studio, no more the stresses the importance of demography democracy. and that was that the now with everything that joined is also said to declare that democracy and diversity of exactly what is under threat under movie. and that's what he is advertising that you know, this is what we need. even in your report, you have mentioned in the us and echoed, ever less democratic country. now, movie is also seen as a victorian figure in the west. i would like to understand for someone who is that

of how to do, how is it that we talk about landslide victory? isn't that he's going to get a majority of how isn't that? so many people want to vote for someone who is such a victor told you the personality i want, but i think i, i think it would be a little bit capitalistic tutorial. but i do, i mean, what has just been said, i think the encroachment on democratic freedoms has been very tangible. but at the same time, i think moody has managed to pick up a, a sentiment that has always been there. sort of the nationalistic hindu focus sentiment that has always been there. i in preparation of today i've read about a polar where in 2974 percent of the sort of a survey set that india, this is sort of, should be very proud of itself. and has a better system than most other places, something along the lines and that, that has not shifted them with some of the 74 percent in 2009. and in the 2019 it

was still over 70 percent. so i think the managers to pick up the sentiment very much while at the same time that of utilizing that of you know, cause it makes it somewhat under democratic means to, to enhance his brand and his grasp also on, on a, on society. right. and investment countries, i've also expressed concerns about this what at the same time, we also want to strengthen that dies within the independent of its democratic regard. meanwhile, in the us, foreign policy is based on the principle of non alignment. whether it's that i show you a green bar or the goals or conflict india and the movie has decided not to take any sites. let's take a look at how india is navigating between the various power blocks or indian prime minister. moody received

a standing ovation when visiting us congress in summer 2023, where he was celebrated as a champion of democratic values. chose to our partnership to our people, to the possibilities of life, had 2 great friends, 2 great nations, and 2 great power. the western democracies are according moody, partly because they see india as a strategic geo political alternative to be increasingly aggressive. china. but india has its own objectives. it has not clearly condemned. is war against you claim, and it continues buying oil and weapons from russia. the moody presents himself as a confident spokesman for many countries in asia, africa, in latin america, countries for whom europe's problems feel more distant. she said this today, india is the voice of the global sales. what foreign policy interesting is india

pursuing under moody? walter, how do you explain more these foreign policy? i think he has a very skilful of 5 minutes. so that's one of the points which is i think a big asset of what they do of today are very skillfully but mere inside the other side. he is maneuvering among all these big power interests and he's doing a great show up in, in making clear that india is not willing to be to follow the decisions of a new blog sunbale. but there are some nations gathered together and think they can make decisions for the rest of the road this time. so passed and going and i think he's very right. doing so, if you see 20 percent of your, of, of, of the world this is, is your being and the rest is not here. so why should 20 percent pass script? uh, well how, how the rest of the road should look. so i think there he has done

a good job, but of course he's, it's back by and by the, by the, by premier to the movie. so this kind of maneuvering and among different interests, where do you find these days? a country big country, which has a good relationship to the design and to the pilot stones and to ukraine, who was just the other person and to russia and to the us and even to china. very. those are kind of a pragmatic way of dealing with it. so doing this, i think you have to be skillful, and i think this is something that we have the which we really need in the future more because you would need to countries like them, like like india, which could, i wouldn't not say made the age of but, but would be there to balance international interest in the, in the 21st century drum. there are a lot of the dogs that have come up in the so called a movie. and i like um, body has origin to make in the other ritual. go to the jumping of the word,

the leader of the word, and india is the wish for me through the friend of the word. how does this trend walk the tightrope with east and west of the 2 ends? and that's a good question. i would also question whether non alignment still really exists because what i see is india is moving slowly from non alignment to multi alignment . and what i mean by that is look at it security blocks and other blocks that it's part of. if you look at the sion high corporation organization, it's a security block. it's working alongside china and russia. if you look at the or breaks, it's again working alongside russia and china. but then if you look at the quote, it's working with the us, which has long, contentious relationships with both russia and china. so i think india is and the indian government is very carefully maneuvering this balance between on the one hand and becoming more open economically and security wise. but it has to balance this with also the political economic realities at home. and it's were willing to

work with other countries that maybe it didn't get along with tool in the past, so long as it's pushing forward. india's agenda, which is economic development. and that is the main main balancing act there. let's go to meeting before we close the show meeting, we don't have a lot of time. but as you saw in the board meetings at the end of today is the voice of the globe as though now india has bought at the entrance with china relations with india and started with focused on have gone from back to us. and we saw this diplomatic grow with motives. so with all these tensions, how does end up become the leader of the global south as well? i, i think that that phrase has become very important in. yeah, but i don't think it's that important positively to the rest of the south, which still is very good relations with china. for example. i do think that it's a good sort of marketing way of putting in the even more the map am but a set i think as india has become most of the transactional and pragmatic,

i think other countries of the global south as well. and so i think if interest align with in the great, if the line with china. great. so i don't think this sort of voice one voice for the global south as an exemption in this regard. thanks mate him. that's unfortunately all the time that we have. but i would still like to us in one sentence by when can you expect and go to become the supervisor of time will tell was that it's it's already done a good way. so i think it's very close. that's all the time. the god, what do you think about it? well, and that'll be the next up hour if yes by right. and if you're watching us on youtube to let us know your thoughts, me breathing your comments. thanks for your time. good. by the,

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