ryan ground context next on dw, so much these are the news on in the, in the notes 5 months into the war and gaza and deadly chaos around in a convoy has glaringly highlighted the desperation and climbing death toll among civilians. the cottage of humanity is something we haven't seen protected by guess this week on complex own is not to find me. former egyptian foreign minister and long time diplomat of what points as egypt have no choice. but to consider opening its border 2 thousands on 2 monetary and grounds. have the shocking scenes of suffering, process conflict to an inflection point. not to find the welcome to conflicts own.

thank you. tragic deaths around and aid con boy in northern gauze, have highlighted the desperation of civilians for food and the lack of security in the enclave. after everything that you've seen in the past days is it time for egypt to open its border to civilians from gaza. as the top of the boards engines is this would be participating in a premeditated consistent effort by these ladies to decrease the density of palestinians on their own territory. and its something was pleasant they, we would not do because we supported by the city and state side by side with us that we continue to take part of the tenants in need of medical supervision or medical help we take. so, but a large scale, a number of palestinians were basically, we were playing into these very acts. but you know, it just has certainly made that red line quite clear. they will not accept any

force displacement of palestinians. but how do you balance the humanitarian desperation? i mean, you know, saved the children just out this past week, saying that we are quote, witnessing a mass killing of children in slow motion because there is no more food left. how do you, how do you balance that with your red lines? it's an absolutely great question. we are in a very difficult situation. we cannot allow products, they use the star. we don't want them to be shot it at the same time. we don't want to be forced into a position where we collaborate. indirectly with these ratings fired by decreasing the that's what i cities. so what they're doing is provide the as much assistance as we can ton of order. we had dropped also just about 48 hours ago and they continue to host negotiations with these varies and the cost of these to try to deal with all these issues. but i guess my point is, you know, at what point does egypt have no other choice morally then to open the border?

because you know, we know what this is not a crisis of you're making, but does egypt need to do more to help the people on the ground? i think we are doing quite a bit. but yes, i agree with you. there will be a situation where if they are forced across the board, we will have to make very difficult decision. but how we respond to we, we clearly are not going to care for our students. but that being said, uh it should not be interpreted as meaning. push them across the border. and we will that yes, because pushing out across the board is not only a violation of punish penny and rights. it's also by the way, if violation of egypt is 80 percent we know of consequence. yeah. and um, you know, i'd like to ask you a little bit about what is happening right now on the ground at the border because there's been a lot of questions about that. egypt has been building some sort of security perimeter at the border last month. your foreign minister classified as what he called maintenance on the border is in egypt planning an area to house palestinians

in case of and it's really offensive on rafa n o i, i don't know exactly it, but let me tell you what i do now. the area where there is construction was originally an area of license buildings. they were taken down and people were to move out. the government rebuilt that area and invited the junction to go back to that, that they have not yet gotten back to that period. and it's something that has been going on for over a year. you had the, the guys, a breakout during the last 5 months. so the pressure also became, uh, what are we going to do is the by the cities are forced across support. uh, we will have to deal with a very dire you might charity situation, but we will also have to deal with the situation where we will not in any way direct or indirect condone is maybe action that virus by the city and rights. and i

suspect, but also that violates the dictionary piece of view. and that needs to be clearly understood. yes. so let me ask you a little bit more about the diplomacy that might be going on behind closed doors right now because and israel's foreign minister has said that they have to and i'm quoting here, deal with rafa because they cannot just leave him off there. and that it would coordinate with egypt to address concerns about refugees. what conversations do you think are happening right now between egypt and israel, especially when it comes to, you know, potential incentives, for example. i mean, you know, money and incentives for egypt to take refugees wouldn't hurt what it this is not an issue of money and it said, this is an issue. we are committed to it to states used to stay out of city, and part of that of the just states is guys in the west. like if we were to, to reduce the numbers there, that would be very, very gauge. some is

a politicians in the cabinets have opened. he said, yes, we need to move by the seniors out of guys that are entered egypt or even into your and will fight finance and can do so that's the advocate paused so we can make this look. oh, but we have made it also clear that we will not participate in this process. uh and i can tell you that effects on national security and that's a violation of the piece of it. taking it back to getting aid and air dropping of aid is picking up even the united states has joined in. there are currently discussions on how else to expand the flow, and you know, it's been reported that president biden spoke last week with president. i'll cc about urgency of negotiations and bringing more 8 into gaza. i mean, as egypt your next door, you're trying to get calm boys in. do you see the potential, if anything shifting on the ground so that more aid can enter?

yes, i do see if there is a hostage, a partial positive change versus incarcerated, and a temporary cease fire that can facilitate a going in the least most recent incident that we saw just put 3 days ago. this was a actually you brought in and organized by palestinians and his race. but given that it was a caustic, some is raised themselves. the fact the, the group of people who gathered around these vehicles, they are so you can't have a state a substantial amount of it going in, in a war zone in a culture. so there's no way to work secure area. so yes, we want, why are we austic the negotiations on the safe side also to change? one of the reasons stop getting people killed but also about for more effective. you mentioned your name, right. and just to pick up on one thing that you said there,

i mean the idea is actually said that indeed they did fire, but they didn't actually fire on individuals who were seeking to get a. but again, there's, there's 2 sides of the story. so i just want to highlight that that's, that's the perspective that they are bringing in and the official statements. let's take it back to the ceasefire talks because they, they were due at the time of this interview. they were due to kick off in cairo, egypt, and could tar have been mediating between israel and from austin. and your foreign minister has said in the past days that he's optimistic about a temporary cease fire being reached before ramadan. what do you think that she sees that might point to optimism for deal? well, again, you have to assemble. just let me tell you what i think he meant he meets up. if you simply listen to all of the international uh, report everybody and everybody has been telling these rays and thomas, let's have these 5 before rum about. they're worried about the situation on the

ground, humanitarian and political, but they're also worried about it breaking out. beyond the borders in the states on the on, on east baseboard. so there's also the strength of expansion. uh that's, that is what i think we're seeing. now. again, 2 points to fabulous here. one, this is not a full face for, nor at full hostages 6. this is a partial positive exchange versus those incarcerated and a temporary spot. so it will be a positive step towards a complete ceasefire. you're not going to get the use of the conflict or, and the ability to start rebuilding what has been destroyed unless you get a complex. but as one of the, you know, the traditional mediators between these parties. um, so what is a little bit about how you think the pressure on those parties might be right now?

because we, we have world leaders speaking out loudly against the scenes of suffering right now and gaza even the us is real strongest allies, seems frustrated. do you see this as an inflection point in the crisis? do you feel the mood could change the dynamics on the ground again? so it goes up to that question. i think it does, but it has a section point from either we. we start a process of trying to deal with the imaginary situation. we're substantially and hopefully then the post politics, the policies and the security situation or inflection point will be that it will want to move towards a highly of all the time regional context. i don't mean sol slips out is where he was. they told me you see everything from tension and lexie literally in order to the syrian border stuff. right. what's happening inside guys

that problems on our border as well. this is going to break out of hand. so the inflection point is either we find a way to slow this boxes down and try to resolve, it's always going to break out beyond control. so you've made the bridge, they're basically from the temporary cease fire talks now to something a little bit more longer term. and there seems to be a lot of will and diplomatic momentum. we have to say from both arab states and israel's allies, including the us and the u. k. to secure such a long term lasting piece that would indeed include a 2 state solution. you know, you, you've seen over many decades the, all of the previous efforts that have failed is something different. this time yes. the college of getting humanity is something they haven't seen for tactics. it was always a horrible incident in our insight, israel or

a month brought us to new territories into such a nation of meters by the way, not by the other side, but private, wrong people. so we've seen that, but to see 5 months, 30000 people killed, at least because there are those under the wrong that we don't account for 70 percent of home women and children start. we have not seen that in a very long, long time. so that's something which, frankly, i come for egypt, we were the 1st to have a piece of people with these ladies. and that's almost 50 years ago. these 2 years after the 1st place agreement with isn't to say not only a lack of control, you know, a comprehensive piece completely but to see the level of cubic and, and, and, and, and counter buttons is frankly quite shocking. and it really birds and my

god as how have you been part of this process for so long and as, and as you are coming from egypt, i'd like to ask you about the saudi lead group of arab states that includes egypt. jordan katara, the u. a e, which is reportedly now pushing this post floor plan that would include a reformed palestinian authority, govern and gaza. and a reversible pass towards the 2 state solution. from the perspective of arab diplomacy. what could be offered to sweeten the deal for israel because any, you highlighted the trauma of these societies is that the violence of bloodshed, there is no appetite right now for 2 states, solution israel after october 7th. so that's why i mean, what i let me talk about what i think can be done rather than what's on the table by the, our group. because i don't know actually how far they've gone talk. i said crisis and concert, or we need to say, i'll give you 10 quick points, intense x,

6 fire hostage exchange doesn't cost the rate that you want a terry support. uh, security arrangements between palestinians is ways in does that include the withdrawal of israeli forces of a a declaration to recognize you find a city and state based on 6.67. but as soon as they under occupation, by we must say it's it's, it's stopped by the city and say under occupation based on 67, every information by the arab countries of their era. they would summit where they said they were all have relations with as well. if there is an end of, of occupation, i want to put all of that under a security council resolution every one of these points, by the way, a supported by, oh gosh, i create i want to have that adopted by the tasha by the security council in an

affirmative vote, and then we go to the parks because that will also require by the way, elections initially. elections that aren't part of city. it's essentially the government. let me ask a lot of settings. yep. i mean it's, it's, you know, you're presenting here a plan, but i, i also wanna ask you how you get that planned on with the move that is currently on the ground. these really cabinet right now has said that any recognition of a palestinian statehood in the wake of the mos terror attacks on israel and october 7th, which as we know, killed 1200 people and 250 were taken hostage. they've said, and i'm quoting here, it would give a huge reward to unprecedented terrorism. so this adult day took package and go with it. so these varies and by the city showing that the okay, you have a ceasefire, you'll have secure it has, it will have security. but as soon as we'll have a release from what's happening, you're going to have to establish a new government. i've sent it to deal with guys and the west bank,

so we're dealing with the whole thing as to to get it and slowly within a 2 year period, we can get there if you go to the, to the, to the address today. cuz i know you probably got in your mind. okay, why can't the take charge of guys and manage that and provide security? and that's a question. which injections have been i asked for hundreds of times. it's probably the most logical, you know, responsible question. anybody can think of because we will not be surrogates, varies, but you know, there's that they were preserved. let me just continue. but here's what i say, go they what they want, but i just need to follow up with you on that because you know and ask you to actually respond to what israel has put forward. they set out this competing plan for postwar garza, it does not include a 2 state solution. it does include overseeing security in the enclave. you've talked about security there. and in fact, netanyahu says that israel should have security control over the philadelphia cord . or we know that's that borders own between garza and egypt. do you see any

circumstances you've talked about coming together? do you see any circumstances under which egypt would be willing to accept that the opposite? cuz not because that's what basically me. so what are the alternatives we occupied a security perspective? this is my point. yeah, let me just tell you if you tell me that this 10 point plan or a point of a number of points, you want, what ultimately need joel at the city and state down the road, then you can get you anything and it will not involved is way the security supervision over guess the out of state. i would definitely be ready to help rebuild not to know what the rate of the bill and we'll train and create mechanisms for better management engaged with the westport. but they're not going to be so if it's a visual secure, is absolutely no way that they would accept that for you more. the reason why say that responsible. if we were to put addiction forces or training is in, we have

a piece of human with these weights. and these weight is inter amendments here. what do we do to them? we end up shooting, but as soon as it is ready, it's not going to happen. you've highlighted all the challenges spoken, but what all the alternatives that go through this. give me a structure for a plan and then we can look at ok, is a guarantee managed by an arrow international, contingent or international contingent, palestinian contingent with our oversight. the details are, are, are plausible. and we can look at creative solutions, but not solutions that end up with the fact on his way up to patients of guys that cannot. but i, we, i, i look again, we was a 1st design, a piece of human with this. so there is a lot of security, we accept that and we're looking at ways to achieve that, but only based on you can't have security unless you solve the problem. the problem

is occupation or, and these ladies want more transparency and more effectively security that we can, that we could look at, provided that the principal and the doctor patients there. let's, let's move on because um, you know, egypt has been also part of this rethink of politics and palestinians. air palace sending areas and part of, you know, the plans for potential governance within goals itself. how do you see the prospects for fragmented posting in politics to be able to unite after the war? because i mean, the palestinian authority president lockwood, a boss, is looking set to stay in his position along with his security chiefs. do you think palestinians will accept that and that the p a might administer garza is widely unpopular. let me put it this way. the only way to really administrative does that in a way that's the sectors were part of sentience. and also we also were accepted by these varies uh without occupation, is to have

a policy in published and you understand whether we like it or not. promise have less support before october 7th. now they have more support, not because of what they did, but because it is a reaction to, to what they did that kind of without a doubt it loaded p a's authority based credibility. excuse me. uh, but we need to rebuild that. it may require new leaders, i've not had lost it to that. all i'm saying is that, yes, you're, you're heading to the point right on the, on, on the head. we need to get published and use to look for a new for me. that's why i said we need to elections and we need to just take the got a government, and there's both what's back and get. there is a big debate also raging right now about whether or not to what extent him off should be involved in all of that. egypt for its part has acted as a mediator between our mazda and its foes, israel, in fact, as we've highlighted,

it's also worked with him boss in recent years to counter and his lovek insurgency and the sign i. but you know, for you personally, when you look at the situation after the horrors of october 7th can be really be part of a post war scenario. again, typically the scenario if it's a plus worst scenario, where we continue to have cyprus, a violence, they'll be clark. there's no question that be fine. because the symmetrical, even though many countries around the world consider them to be a terrorist organization. the united states, a do israel, and so this isn't the, this is the be careful year. i didn't say a postwar scenario where you have peace. i said if we continue to have a cycle of buttons, then they, they are others. other forms of comments will continue to exercise what they pursue as their policy. what i quit 40 forwards is i want to rebuild about a senior constituency that is effectively supported and presented to it. just

a seduce is parties don't want to accept that then such as a cat qualified himself, they part of that process. if they do, they will have to change. and let's also be civically, can you want, who are we to motion and with now appear to have to austin, to change fluid as well with now with us with now, what was it my question for you is how much so they are. is it my issue is not whether they're, they're not, they are the my issue is how do i built a, a scenario that allows for addictions for hours where the piece, including but it seems like a piece. those who don't want piece, we will that work again. but frankly, i'm the one that were being asked to talk to thomas, who's relations with egypt, were always very, very care uh,

but were asked to talk to them now and then we hear, but they're not part of the parents. well. okay, so it was, we talked so then i mean, you know, when you look at all of the scenarios that are possible coming out of this, 1st of all, how do you think the war and gaza ends? and when do you see it ending? uh, do you think you'll see a permanent and size off like any time soon? i don't, i don't, i don't say you will see a short or complete and you will probably fine get what hostage agreement temporaries fire and then another. but then you'll have outbreaks from the agreement and regression. neither side really is way to make a strategic decision. we got these varies or permits and that's, that is what is required that that's why at the beginning i said,

let's put together a package that we outside the region. but i, we, we, beyond the park is accept. and then we start talking to the party's, their center, to see if we can sell this piece of me. i, i agree with you. they said that it's not for 2 states use, but actually it's the only ones will get them out of this process. as a former negotiator do, i think i could go and and do it tomorrow. of course, now the state's largest cannot be reached then what i mean. what realistic alternative do you see to a 2 state solution that can provide peace in the region or is there not a? there's a, there is not which is the others alternative is a once the reality, which would be a continuous concept, same person is raised because they also want national identity on a very small piece of land. and neither side will give it up completely to the other. furthermore, if you don't allow that equal rights,

you will have conflicts with in the one state. so to speak, to usually is extremely difficult. and one states and yours is computing you boss as it is. and what's the reality us going to have concept not off on a we have unfortunately run out of time. we thank you so much for joining us here on conflicts on thank you for your time. thank you. the

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