the environment is not responsible make up your own mind, dw, made for mines. the valuable thing has been open media aggressive when you create for more than 2 years now. but as far of concourse is not confined to you pray, he's also clearly exhibiting influence on other fama. so if you have states as well, for instance, in georgia and model of georgia has falls to controversial legislation that labels non governmental organizations as foreign agents leading to be so heavy. but that the legislation is being regarded as a copy of a similar russian law. and model of all which is due to void presidential elections and a referendum on joining the e u. later this year. russia is being accused of targeting the public space by

spreading this information. i mean, my us secretary of state anthony blinking is considering allowing ukraine to use american veterans on russian territory. so down to the point we are discussing instructions about the for, into, in spreading from ukraine to georgia and model the hello and welcome to, to the point on each of how do you sign in here in berlin. and today, my guess the gustavo dress a, he is a senior policy fellow on military expert with the european council on foreign relations, e. c, f r. i stuffy off balkan bun. she is on a list for eastern europe. the gentleman council on foreign relations. d g a be joining us via skype from parcel we have danny shows she is you made the reporter

at the w a very well and welcome to you all good stuff. um, the gentleman, farming stuff was in ukraine recently and she said that the situation has wilson drastically. now we know she have planned to go to hockey if she could not because of security reasons. how is the situation now in your plan has to be more than 2 years? well, ukraine is other very difficult time in small. um, it has been difficult to really be difficult. a part of that was the delay in 8, both from europe and us. um, it's mildly known that the us were late, but also european munition initiatives that relate the problem is that the crane on forces had lost a lot of personal because of this delayed losing soldiers means losing skills, losing people that have experience losing people that have

a noise and what they're doing, it's very hard to re train people to something. um, so that is something that has damage their come with power quite considerably. the 2nd thing is that the russian army has compared to with the russian army. that housing waited in 2020 to grow and to roughly twice the size in terms of man, even more. but in terms of material, dig through twice the size, but on ukraine inside you have not even the losses replaced by wisdom equipment. uh the last as that of course, since 2022 also you have a large problem of the fact old solicit sense of equipment. you can find i'm a nation full, particularly of car sip. so 1st the air me science defense me. so i was, well, that effects old a lot of ukraine in artillery tank,

forest making eyes vehicles where you don't get spare parts or you don't get, i'm a nation for it. and that has led to ukraine's practical combat power decreasing. and russian compet, though increasing on russia now with the some of offensive trying to make gains on that for you. cream is clearly not in a good spot on associate technically sell excuse 5 year term, as president ended on the 28th of me. but of course, he would continue being the president because of martial law. now his critique said that this is non constitutional. how a people looking at this, and you claim, i mean it's a fair question and if has been discussed a lot, especially last year and do the critique, most of it comes from russia, russian allies. it was also an idea launched by the us last year. but it was quickly dismissed as well. and the, your partner's support inquiry and it's not causing connections that are multiple

reasons why elections would not be appropriate to the current time. for us default, your credit is not able to ensure a safe and fair and secure elections more than 20 percent of your current territories occupied at the moment. the 4 people cannot vote in the standard taurus . it would be very difficult to insure the people on the control line i able to vote due to increased has as well increased security concerns. then you credit has around 8000000 references a all around the world. ensuring their presence of devoting stations would be as well, very complicated. and this is not just sticking with the from night financial concerns . where would the money come from? for elections instead of it has made it very clear that the mind coming formula to the equipment and for continuing the work cannot be use to for elections. and additionally, a group of opposition passed and so, so agree that the elections would not be now appropriate. because this would also

mean electro competition. it would mean the sources file. all the efforts with cars should go for the war. and i have to say, i mean, they're also constitutionally pen would need to change this constitution to hold elections. but at the same time also, it would be important. it's not to do go not to have it actions at the moment. so we have precedence where the come to can continue the dissertation before before some sort of a piece comes in place. and the last november around is you percent of people in ukraine supported the idea of waiting with the elections. so of course it is difficult, extremely difficult to hold elections at this point because of practical reasons. the or the reason i ask you this question is because since the beginning of the war, we're talking about democracy versus an authoritative a team. and now if someone's continues to be the president without being elected again, would that not fuel, within a propaganda machine? as you said it in the beginning also that the critique mostly comes from joshua. i

mean, what, we will not for the, for to the pro 500 resume. you know, i think we should not look at what russian propaganda is coming with. you know, we have the 2 mentors and why ukraine can know told elections. and also, i believe, as european partners putting this pressure on your plan would not be right just at the moment due to the reasons i mentioned. and i mean, i think, sure what can be done this to dismiss this arguments between the state where we know how the president was elected in russell a racist and democratic concerns about your grade. i think it was, i've been taking the students, this is also, i don't know. what does it say about us and our democracy? i was a mind odd. none of the opposition parties wants to run against the president who is commander in chief in the war situation. because if you start to criticize the president and then also for you trained a lot of what looking at to try and going into the gulf coast,

there are some things that after the war can be politicized. but now you would, you can't do cons. have a really good debate about all this stuff. so in, so the old content, those old possible content as those politicians will think they might challenge sled ski at a later point. no one wants that this will come off to the wall because now they, they would just lose out and, and do more harm to them and their country then. and that the 1st the train from all the situation was by you have and no position that wants to run their election against a, a sitting president me. i mean, in belarus, of course they also say she wants drum, a fair election against the states in president of a but this, this is totally different than ukraine insights. we should, we should also talk to the opposition and, and take them seriously on that. right. let's go to tell you quickly, she has been waiting for us patiently. time for your patients day. now,

ever since the beginning of the war now being concerns that ukraine would not be lost, country rev put in would try to have instruments. and there been talks about countries like mando. now, dennis, just how one of the is a country like mazda, of, of which does not even share border with russia to fulton's encroachment. so, there been concerns much longer than since the beginning of rushes were on your brain. and that's because putting ensures that mold over worries about this kind of thing. you know, it has a piece of territory trans nature, which is about 4000 square kilometers and about 400000 people, which has remained loyal to moscow since the soviet union crumbling. so for more than 30 years, and this is a tiny area, um, sometimes even asks for protection. now remember when it says that he needs to protect russian speakers, this is the kind of language that we heard before he and dated don boss in 2014 and

took crania, he said these kind of things again in 2022 before he went into ukraine. it's sort of language that people in the countries near to russia understand that this could signal that putting wants to go into this territory. he would absolutely love to create a land core door between russia and trends me straight. because as you mentioned, he doesn't have a border with mold over, but this is something that the country has has always lived with since a, since it's re independence. and that's why the pro e u president. my assigned to has very much strength and ties with brussels. now, minova is neutral by constitution. so there's not a lot of talk about joining nato, of course. but she just this week signed a defense agreement with the european union, and she would also have done this earlier, bilaterally with friends. and this is going to help security cooperation with the european union in areas like cyber security. uh, uh, counter terrorism. um, even border management, so this is something that will go but has always known as vulnerable and it's doing

what it's can in this uh, you know, very uh, very vulnerable, a neighborhood to, to strengthen itself to become more resilience. thanks, jerry. now, mazda of, of does not share the border with joshua, but george, out of the country, has approved a contribution to the farm agent law that has spot weeks of moscow this under the new law. so it was a psyche, organizations, and media that receive more than 20 percent of their revenues from abroad. really be obliged to register as organizations subbing the interest of a father and follow people into police are continuing to protest without rest. even after the georgian parliament passed the controversial law, classifying certain organizations as foreign agents, opponents are calling the new regulation russian law. from now on, according to russian president, n g o's and independent media must disclose their financial support from abroad

the standing here today. pete's as the basic one of the research. so it's both researchers, one of the non government organizations organization. and nowadays to day up the author of the important urgent care i'm sending here, the forwarding good debates about the law is revealing the division in georgia and society. young people especially are afraid of pollutants growing influence and that their country might turn away from the west. well, george and it be the next day to fall back into russia. sphere of influence on the stuff you invited georgia of feel the need to bring and such an anti democratic though this to say in person christian because everyone asks this to

know. and in fact, george and jim didn't have to do it. they could have preserved the power without bringing in this law. and i would say that is really a fear coming from the leadership of the part of the day i losing the power at this law. while it's labeled this russian law and very much inspired by russian legislation doesn't come on russian dumont, it's really comes from the judge and the district from georgia. dream in the attempt to preserve the power over the country and the fewest where the desk at the upcoming elections, georgia. george and jim was not to get the majority to am. however, i mean, i believe that the part to under estimated charge in population. and this is not so depressive resume, this is the come to full of people who want to preserve the democracy and people will be on the street. so i, i, i think it was really an under estimation from the, from the ruling 5 to they have been in power already for quite

a long time. and their support has been declining of over the past years. and talked to him a specific does a very corrupt power to that, that trying to maintain the grief on the power and really sliding george and to look at the project and democratic regime. but that people are resilient and the content. and i think this was maybe i, it's very hard to say which was the expectation from the judge and dream. and what was the motivation behind this because they could have, they have been getting the elections before. so i think that could have been of a tool supply to maintain the power. and to me this step is also shows that they at the to good to for, for less than to be on this to the georgia dream. i, i honestly, i mean, i see it's more optimistic, but i really thing that to georgia and population a little bit stronger than this. let's look at the effects of crossing this legislation. well, it's not just the process of getting the e. u has one that the adoption of the slogan, handbook, tonsils of joining the blog. georgia has candidates. he states the status at the

moment. and then you also have us saying that the georgia will become an ad was read or other than a partner. how is the georgian government reacting to all of this? and you also have nato. i should point out. also, i'm speaking out against this. and georgia has traditionally very much wanted to become a member of nato. so you really got all the major organizations um, plus the us putting pressure on, on uh the georgia dream basically, but it has seemed to backfire so far. you know, they haven't back down on this. and in fact, they're saying, well, look at all the undue influence that for, and the, you know, for an asters want to put on georgia. this is why we need this rule. so it really hasn't worked so far. of course the law has not been implemented yet. so that there's still time perhaps for these kind of levers to work, but at the moment they don't show any sign of backing down. at the same time you, you asked about about you membership and they have not also backed away from

wanting to become a member of the european union. so that may be where the pressure can still be applied. at the same time, the you is, is so angry about this, but it's talking about rolling back some of the privileges that georgia has had, like visa, free travel, for example. and there are some countries that are saying there shouldn't be sanctions put on georgia. so this is really a long way from the joy where the country was, you know, introduced as a candidate and an e. foreign ministers are going to talk about this next week. so securely backfiling talking of you, gustavo, now you likes to be seen as this big family that has, that was obedience. and it wants to include as many countries as possible. but by doing so isn't you weakening it? so now you have the examples of slovakia. you have the example of hungry ret, we realize that it did become counter productive. and now it's not just georgia. e was also thinking about serbia, about montenegro, about

a baby. what do you make of it? what was the thing is most enlargement. uh, the or a large one per se. the problem is you need to be tough on the democratic style, the freedom of press independence of the judiciary. because if you let them slide on, not what's happened in hungary, then this opens up for this kind of clause, the author retiree and rule that then destroys a policy making a new uh and, and that is why, for example, on georgia, of course, the always no strict, uh uh, it's not a, a just sort of issue of taste, but the problem is the georgia dream has been criticized for states capture for rolling back to destroy reform for um, for nepotism uh for hindering the fight against corruption over the

past years. um and um, basically now all these grievances break into the open monday when they try to call tail or criminalize those organizations that still report on, on all these misdeeds. and that is, that is of course the issue where you can say no. yeah, if you, if you're going down that road um the, the, the door to the us coast, on the other hand, we see other countries that knock on the used doors that have made remarkable progress on this. and that have reformed. and you see country side the you that have done all those they, i'm just like, i'm 3 that actually have, you know, inactive was like this and kicked out of the influence positive influence from other countries. so george also sees that example. and if you have a critical or so, so the issue inside and outside is to be more principle list about democratic values and, and basic freedoms. and that,

that is the respective of accession and not, um, it is, it is a shame that our article 7 procedures are so cumbersome. and then now of course that hungary, fines allies to protect itself within to you. um. but on the other end, you feel, for example, look at you train in the progress of ukraine and reforms over the years. um, uh they rightfully knock on the door and say, look, guys view, i mean, the all bets on democratic stuff is much better than hunger itself. why, why shouldn't a so i would, i would separate the issue of enlargement. um uh with that if it just makes everything fit as i think most of the environment has become part of transactional and hungry is trying to obtain deal. so no, no to block session. and i also think it would be the same with georgia hungry is loved being very strongly for georgia in terms of the york session. and this can be used to know to offer now excessive talks for your client and we'll devise

a bargain talking. and i think here it's really important what was that was how much of the previous to that you use to maintain. so it's norms and values. and this by the transactional environment that's relevant going on all of the very poisoned offer. i mean, the hunger is one serbia and then it won't charge it in because of their damage the deficit. sunday, they're not the only ones the austrians also pushing for. so it'd be a because survey on, on the, which would be a role block for the you to be strict on financial controls on fight against this, by a nice on russian influence on corruption laws. the whole the do you prosecute to reserve is on financial tribes. that is a horrible scenario for victor oil. but it also on the minds the kind of usually the policy making into the n o a practice law. and they want to have the rescue against that on the see the georgia dream or what judge are or, and unreformed balls. and you are are a kind of risk to service and allies to,

to dilute onto corruption policies within you. and so, so, so again, yeah, it's, it is about democratic standards and they should govern who we take and then whom not. right, it's, it's a, it's a long debate about what's happening into you, but let's come back to ukraine because got it cleared up. is that put in maybe getting the upper hand in ukraine losely due to the rest in adequate support? analysts say ukraine hasn't faced such a serial mandatory challenge since the early days of the war. the situation has prompted a new plan that outlined specific steps for ukraine's membership in nato as early as july 2028. the paper suggests that ukraine could become a member of the western military alliance by 2028 regardless of whether the war has ended or not. in the meantime, allied countries are called on to increase their aid to 0.25 percent of their g. d . p. error defense for western ukrainian border regions could also be

managed from new tow territory and until the ukraine joins and 8 hope all types of conventional weapons could be supplied the stipulation that they not be used against targets and russia should be dropped. what are the chances of this new draft paper being implemented during the 28th? isn't that too late? that was from a position of booker as 2008. it's much delight, but the problem is now the boys already there. um, well looking at sweden and finland on how difficult task force i think it is a bit loose if to propose exact dates for membership because this is an negotiation process amongst totally to allied countries. and that will be difficult with the

respect of some countries on the other hand, or you see a huge inconsistency in policies that especially looking back at the building is last year when you're trained talked or once at a, at least a political commitment to an invitation if conditions arise then that those countries who are either formally or informally in favor of a negotiated settlement with russia do not support or are very hesitant on ukraine's nature membership. because if you have a kind of stall made the agreement, we had these in the past and none of them work neither means one norman school nor, and your other agreements. if you want to have the war really, to end a, you need a security net for your brain. so it's significant to most go, nothing further, and that's would be natural membership. the most practical and the most actually effective would be need to membership. so here,

the worst is also the inconsistent. and of course this paper pokes into, into the political inconsistency. we have 2 minutes left to e mail, and we know that russia is military has big andrias involving tactical nuclear weapons bills that have an effect on this decision on this proposal. rather, it didn't rush. it has, has nuclear tests, you know, nuclear exercises, we should say all the time. the important thing is that nato consistently says that they have not seen russia making a true change in its, its military pastor when it comes to nuclear weapons. and that way, that's what would be the key for, for real concern about whether russia intended to use nuclear weapons put and has threatened it many times and has not made those moves that would indicate to the alliance. but it needed to really worry about a russian nuclear attack. thank you. on a 2nd last question. now you're clearly seeing here,

there are 2 different strategies use um does this military method in ukraine there's a non military methods, hybrid metro's as they're called in other countries. georgia. i'm on the one with strategy according to you is working better for prevent to as things when it's not a comparison. that's the issue about special all of the stuff that just comes together and this is what we should to tear. we should not look on the military attacks by the hybrid attacks, including in the you contrast and the candidate such as the same as a package that put in is having as a strategy together. that's all the time we have. what do you think about that which strategy is working better? hope with that. if you're watching us on youtube to let us know your thoughts, be reading your comments. thanks for watching. the

the there is a village in kenya. oh yeah. where women, my mama knows my husband would have killed me if i had the wrong, we should be. they escaped violence. both marriage, tennis will need to license a new malia, the women take a stand against the patriarchy of the tribes, december and many on most and in 15 minutes on the w, a swing to the right seems imminent of the upcoming european elections. right?

swing populous policies are leading in surveys. what are the reasons for this? what part as fake news play in the success of the euro? skeptics? and what will happen if they gain more insurance in calling him and focus on us. in 90 minutes on d. w, the do you know which should be c industries has the highest c o 2 emission rates, which is good. concrete, transforming business to live is on to figure out what's the real new deal. but just green, blushing, the watch now on the music can be destroyed.

you can try. so it's impossible to see how nice, you know, sweets or the was the nazis the do you musicians who lives in the savannah office? i assume about the sounds of power and inspiring story about the vital signs to music. fetch the chandler play. oh, well, the only one i'm super lucky music under the swastika thoughts may 25th on d w. the

. this is think about the news live from julian gemini, 5 rod al tentative for deutschland, this kicked out of it's a political block. if you are paying parliament. i asked a members have been expelled from the parliaments, identity and democracy faction as 5 broad parties in france and italy moved to distance themselves from the gym, and right wing is also on the program. presidents of should have been its welcome at united nations decision to commemorate the 1995 genocide of bosnian muslims, bosnian serbs protest, claiming the incident as they misrepresent and amend calling says a growing inequalities.