this is india is new generation. what are they doing? and the road commerce help in this country. what do they want to change in the society full of contrasts? the indian aids stuff, june 5th. i'm d. w. is europe on the verge of a major shift? well, supporters of vladimir putin and friends of china soon have more power in the european parliament. according to polls a head of the european elections, right wing populous and nationalists are attracting more voters. but europe's the far right is also seeing divisions between the alternative for germany, a, f d, and the french national rally party, around some of the independent out stream. do you voters want the union to be? what alliances are being forged? pulls it up on the line. conservative president of the new commission is openly courting the votes of the italian head of government. george,

i'm alone each and her ultra arrives so that they lead the young. on to a point we ask europe's far right, tempting partner, support and service the welcome to this week's to the point, i'm how you navigate us. it's good to have you with us. and let's meet 2 days guests that he lives now is a new berlin correspondent for germany's thoughts and focus specialized in east german politics and the the party which i like to not is dw news. chief political editor and book has built a is a freelance journalist he has previously worked as a correspondence in paris and brussels solve. you're welcome. thank you for being with us. and i'd like to start with you book on all of your up seeing a shift towards the riots, even countries that have a tradition of liberal politics like sweden or the other ones, are seeing extreme right. when politicians and their governments,

what did traditional parties do wrong? while it seems that the traditional parties did not attend the needs of the preoccupation of the citizens, like the question of migration, i mean that the flows come that this some countries like italy agrees which were just overflowing, due to the dublin agreement that used to rain in the yeah, your opinion. secondly, i think that's just the inside thing, which we see in many of the governments, for instance, in germany, a dollar, a famous collision between liberals, queens and social democrats is leading to the point that the people just get desperate. they don't want the people to fight at the top that govern the bodies to fight, but to act and we have inflation. we have pandemic. we have the war in ukraine. and these are nice that really people are looking for direction for a strong hand. and this is why we see a movement also to more or to retire and isn't. and har tend to rules. and i think

this explains some of it that also the european union cannot answer the basic questions. it has not been reform pass, not the big as my crime has always proposed and wanted to do. and so the people few left alone then turn to national to stick. how people to speak party. we're definitely seeing that on a national level. the question is that's also going to happen on the e, you level. and nadine, how much power do these political parties have to actually change you politics at the moment? while i think until now they are divided into 2 fractions or 2 groups within the european parliament. this is the id, the identity and democracy. and on the other hand, the cut out of the european conservatives and reforms. so until now they haven't really joined forces yet, and it will be very interesting to see what happens after the 9th of june after they are applying election to see if they will join forces. if they will find new park most may be within the const or if it is and it will there be like one shoot

right when the group within the european parliament i think then they can really change the politics and brussels if they fail to phone that in a core, listen, i think they will stay fragmented. but on the other hand, the point is, the shift to the right within germany, within other countries, within the economy, ignored by the conservatives, also maybe by the social democrats. but all the parties who rule within the u. s. u commission. so i think there will be changes in the politics even though, right. when politicians are not really impala but they were producing invisible change and definitely more pressure towards the traditional parties. now me try like living in germany these days, it seems like you are exposed to have on boardman of political ad saying this election is crucial. this election is important. go vote, it matters. what do you think makes it different from previous you elections?

well, elections always crucial, but clearly we all see what could be a potential force or said moment of the right and the extreme right. actually playing allowed to role in brussels. when you see old enough on the line who's the top candidate for the p for the conservative central is conservative book and really vying for support from someone like george and bologna, who is as actually mazda of the game of being a fall vice at home. but actually being a surprisingly pro european politician one sees in brussels and that is in itself a change in the way brussels works in the way european politics works. so the question is whether the fall rights can actually become a main stream full stack can no longer be seen as exactly that. the small fragment fragment at the end of the spectrum of what is mainstream politics and that will ultimately depends on the orders. if we take a deeper look at germany,

voters of the far right party seem to be very resilient. the alternative for germany has been monitored by the federal office for the process of protection of the constitution. for years, the german domestic intelligence service classified the party as a so called suspected case of white wing extremism. and rightly so, as a chord confirmed a few weeks before the european elections. it's one of just many scandals. here's a look at the parties leading figures. beer and hooker is the a of these leader in the german state of touring. yeah. where he's sprinting, a radical nationalist ideology that some have called fascist inmate. a court imposed a find on the former history teacher for knowingly using a band nazi slogan. maximilian call is the a of these top candidate for the european elections. one of his employees allegedly spied for china a course buys or a problem. crawl has also been accused of accepting money from russia in the

chinese secret service, which he denies in one attribute call claims, but not all members of the s s were criminal of sparking international outrage. the attributes from is number 2 on the 8 of these european election list. he is also currently under investigation for allegedly accepting money from russia to promote pro russian propaganda, which he also denies is the day of the $2.00 extreme 3 europe's rate when populace were about to see now that even if the supporters dismiss all those allegations as nothing short of a media conspiracy to damage the party ahead of the elections. how significant are those revelations? well, this will be an interesting point to see on the 9th of june, because until now we don't see really, how can i say a tumbling in acceptance within their but with us we see them with like 17 percent with which is a huge class compared to the 11 percent the, the had end of 2019

a new election. so still more people are supporting the f d. i think we have 2 points that are really important. well, on the one hand a, the support does have a huge skepticism about traditional or established media. they don't really trust what they hear and see with the media. and on the other hand, i think there's like a strong what evasion to vote, a f d to show some disrespect against the leads i think to vote for a d as an elite vote. and i think this motivation is stronger than the then the skepticism about the scandals and sometimes a of d offers. they support us some rhetoric regarding oh, also. but then the other part is that also have the scandals, phone deadline has some investigations where there's caps. i gauge within the u parliament, which concerned the social democrats. so i think they have some rhetorics to defend

themselves, and their support is, believe them. they definitely do it. however, even though the party is acting as if nothing is happening and more or less, and we say that it does have an impact. is this a big problem for the if the, internally, all these scans are going on? i tell you what of what i see is the biggest problem is that somebody in the pen basically said that they don't have a leadership which discredits them at the european level as anyone you can actually work with. and at the national level, you can see how they are it, i'd say in a panics mode to get a grip on the situation. i mean, you couldn't make this up. the top candidates has been banned from actually appearing for election rallies. he's been spotted appearing publicly a just a day ago, so that is already being looked at with suspicion within the their own policy. number 2 on the list is also no longer palatable as we just saw. so number 3 of the

list is the one who's carrying the weight of the company right now. so, so that raises them by the fundamental questions on how they, they even present themselves over this very, very long couple of days until the 9th of june. until that boat actually takes place. so with a public, the discredited and but that's the reason raises the point. where does the support come from? and if you speak to potential voters on the street, it's more a symptom of got the politics of people resenting an establishment. and, and that is something that is not going to go away. i've spoken to if the board has to say, well, they just wanted to demonstrate to the established of a system that they're against it. so it, it feeds into a reduction in support for democracy as the favorite form of government that still has a last resort here in germany. but also there is a growing sense of people being more open to more of story, terry and style of politics. so the question is, are they

a political forcing themselves in the future? i think there's some huge question marks right now here in germany, or do they remain the symptom of a rejection of politics as it's done by now? and that's, of course, a very important question. do they have policies and suggestions for the future of vision for other countries that actually appealed to voters? or is this more the protested or what that we so often hear? it's funny, yes, because we were just discussing before the program that we have the impression that most of the of the voters don't even read the program. the cost is often that applies to all parties actually. yeah. yeah. because they got things in there like, uh, abolish the, the tax on, on the, on gasoline. and so, i mean, this is a realistic, whoever they do is you get the payments back, you know, are, are all this, all this euro says scepticism. i think it's really a protest party especially and um, what i'm seeing here is a little bit of from pissing because what does the term to it so which i'm to

always say about me is not true. i'm assuming this is a little bit the attitude i see at the moment on, at the top level of the a if the, because they try to is to, to say for this to say. but i mean, they're being rejected even by their right wing partners in euro, which was really a slap in the face and the so that should give them to think. but i mean, all the moderate elements has been eliminated from the leadership and the course of the year. so what is left is that there is a party that's turning more to what's the stream, right. but to voters care about that we junction for about those scandals to protest. apparently not if you look at the latest polls, i mean the if the went down from 22 and the scandal came yet to 15. know they're up again. that's 17. you know, um the defects a little bit, but the real tests will be touring. yeah. when we have a local election regional election and the federal, the state of to ring g a. so we will see how strong they get there because they,

they used to be that could be the strongest party there for a long time in the boats, the strongest party there. but i mean, there's the, the, the firewall that the other part is want to set up against them. but i wonder if the christian democrats really would cooperate with a left, you know, in order to avoid cooperating with the f d. that is to be seen. that's notion of the firewall has been so far. holding up here in germany, we say it up. do you think that's going to change in the future? or i think it has already somewhat changed. if you speak to the top, see, do you candidates of the cd you in, in eastern states in the ring? yeah. for instance, they are finding it hard and if you speak to local politicians, they find it must be impossible. i had one speak about it and say look, are we going to refuse to agree to building that bridge because it was something to if they came up with yes. so that is getting more difficult. but in terms of german

politics overall, that somebody's not going to happen that you're going to see a co lesson with the fall, right? if the party at the national level, anywhere i guess so you're not going to see a full co listen, would be a if the anywhere in germany a, whichever level at. but then this day to day politics to where you need to get stuff done. and, but i don't think that that is necessarily the key question. i mean, you also have been this the wagner next year, which is the left leader who is now actually surprising the successful with being i was described as being so, so less that she comes out on, on the vice you. and because she manages to, to combine left wing politics, a key on social issues and market economy issues with and on 3 migrations. dawn, so that appeals to different comes and in see may be the most effective political

tool against the far right. a if the at the regional level because he's already up and above 5 percent, sometimes above 10 percent in some regions picking the squared matches so much. if we found something we thought was unthinkable just a few years ago and just seeing enough stay of that full piece in ukraine, i mean pro russia to, to do is to really finish off with this conflict, which is also, i just wanna say everybody is full piece and you correct? yeah, yeah. but the argument is as you don't need to give russell whatever it was. exactly like actually that's also a stance that divides therapy and parliament for sure. and coming back to what book i mentioned about the rejection on a european level, how significant do you think it is for the sake of the likes of money, the pen to reject a if the at this moment, while that thing for marine dependents, a decision that comes on marine the pen. i think it's not fault for her. the fate of the d is not really important thing for her. the year 2027 is really important. then we have the presidential election and friends and she wants to be the next president of from so she has to win more than 50 percent of the voters and friends

. so it's important for her not to only find the right wing both just but also to attract most of the, of the middle. so she needs to finish her course of the abilities ation or of how can i say and her idea of make the are in the rest of the more nothing know of many of make it more electable to vote. as of all comes. so i think for her the a, if the it's not really useful for her, it's more, it can be more of a problem. but on the other hand, i think we still have to see the whole. right. so it does the whole right wing politics in europe. is no really fragmented. that's still we have to see what happens of the 9th of june. i think we have like 2 major questions. the 1st question is, what do we have like a super crew within the parliament? and then also the question is maloney supporting was a fund that line see more or less switching to come going more to right middle come

the supporting her and i think to me it, georgia maloney is the most crucial the most the size of figure right now in the game sheets she will, she will be the one who gives the most decisive impulse store. the whole scene will take a look at exactly that. the turmoil and the european parliament is paving the way from you alliances. even those that were previously a no go in order to secure her re election for a 2nd term. you commission president was that i found the line from the conservative iep block is openly courting george time is only italian head of government and her party. the post passes brothers of italy. this is prime minister, georgia maloney is being forwarded by 2 different political idealogues including rightly nationalist marine la pen and conservative politicians, person live under lion and the run up to her re election bid. the head of the european commission has demonstrated that she's open to cooperating with maloney's far right for tell. he did tell you

a party in the european parliament i have been working very well with a georgia maloney into european council. the topics we going to offer, then we're going to see whether those who are pro your p and she is clearly prose your pin against 14. she's been very clear on that one and pro who else role if this whole and then we offer to work together in response lieutenants proposing a joint parliamentary group that includes her party members together that would make them the 2nd largest block in the european parliament le pen who's national rally parties even further to the right, says that she and maloney agree on the main issues. pen or vander lion, who when, when maloney support it's not easy to tell, but i throw the question to you both have to do. do you think it's going to be qual, maloney, and the pen is also a proposition of a victo on from hungary. i mean he wants these 2 groups to cooperate,

but i think that the fund, the line would be very cautious of cooperating with the pen. but you will be eventually willing to cooperate or to us to be elected by the votes. of fact, the lead the thought out by george, i'm alone his party because as he mentioned, formally charge on bologna a false hopes, the criteria she is pro ukraine. she's pro european, as far as of now is during her government and she's pro rule of law. so these are the 3 criteria and the pro creek reading and spent. my read the fan in the past, i must say in the past has been thoughtful, you know, uh with our stance pro russia. um so um i think in the case that the majorities will be that funded line need some more votes than maybe just the social democrats and green so so or doesn't get done about i think she will

rely on the conservatives of the, of the c, r group and the fatality to tell you, i think she will rely on either talking about these 3 criteria to be pro european if you're willing to do it seems like a pretty low standard d space. and i think you know, that they slide one point and it's really interesting that's on the line, doesn't mention that because from the line had one like really central unimportant project within like a 1st 5 years was the green deal. and was one of the major projects and i think to her it must be really clear that you can't follow that you can't really finish the green d a when she's 6 full support from the right wing politics because like climate politics is not, is like on the top of the list of stuff that directly pull the things the want. so i think for her it, it must be clear that it will be a huge step back. we have seen it with the, your re not to ration role that the conservative side with the u. c. r or seeking support from the right thing and well, in the end, the whole project for us really

a danger. so and received the protests of the fall most within germany also within the lens within friends with in other countries within the us. so there's like a huge push also from that side to make the politics more liberal there to focus less on climate spend that's on, and barbara memphis fund. that's me try it out. we often talked about these parties as the nice parties, but in the end, they will say that they are the better representatives of democracy in europe. that they represent the voters interest more. do you think with a stronger rights wing, if you will, in the european parliament that will also see policies are closer to the people or the so the answer's no. uh, because that's not how the european union works. and this is actually a huge and a notable difference between the european union and the united states. for instance, it's not the one that takes it, all compromises have to be made. it's like a quiet, it will only determine how loud in the fall, right?

it will be heard in the european parliament, which has to sign off on any european project laws. so it is a very powerful environment at the same time. and you need the heads of state as well and so on, on key issues like trade. how is funding in brussels but on many issues it's, it's still rest with the individual states. and i just want to point out one huge difference, which i think is kind of a tell tale sign that this is not just about money as well. a bernie sanders and the left just a sense of the united states. his argument in the states is that you can be right when populism, by having something like, well, social security for the health care people taking care of well, you're past all of this. yes. so so it's not just about the money it's, it's more complex than that. and so yeah, that was a long answer. and yeah, but it wouldn't be

a nowhere near the right wing. takeover of the you were just not what are we close to then book i would just say that it will become more difficult to govern in the european union. um, you mentioned how important that is to have leadership and to have strong a strong notion of what's where we're going to be definitely more difficult to govern europe. although it has some share your last mentioned, i mean the european parliament has limited to competence. so i mean, they liked the commission president, but in, in the end, as we saw last time, they had to states can overrule yeah. and they have to a point to approve the, the, the commission us. and so they have a say in the budget of the you, but in the end and on international agreements. so like the free trade agreement with mark or so could fall. if the i'll try to conservative a try. right. does not agree eventually that could be a possibility, but in the end, yeah, most, you know, the most the of the say is with the,

the council of ministers still and, but the national states. but what i see is that the people in the different states are looking for identity for. yeah, that, that is what leads to more nationalism because they see that the, you does not really solve the problems. and i am so disappointed that i'm going to america did not agree to the proposals of him on the crawl. many years back to reform the you, we need a reform of the you, we need a european parliament that really has the legislative powers. i mean it's, it's upset, the executive, i mean, the cons of ministers is at the same time the, let's as to, by the, i mean, this is upstart is just like the echo from them and the concert of ministers for economic and currency questions of the finance ministers of the countries, i mean they will never punish themselves for not fulfilling the criteria of stability. so there are many construction faults in the european union, but you need to be attendant and hasn't been attended which lead to

a dissatisfaction in the population. and furthermore, i think this election, this european election is also about the national politics of the people bowed to, to approve or disapprove of the national government speed in spain. be it, and the german you'd be it in france. that's where we see a disapproval, for instance, of germany and the strong if the are strong, my really depend on hence that big difference between national politics and that you politics. that's all we have time for unfortunately. but i want to thank all 3 of you for joining us today. of course you for watching. and remember that you can always watch our shows in our youtube channel and just look for the delay news and the lead us to the point show. i'm sorry, you know, i guess so next time. take care. bye. the the

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. this is due to the news live from berlin guilty on all counts. from november, donald trump is defiance after becoming the 1st former us president to be convicted of a crime in new york, jerry finds you committed business fraud when he made payments to an adult film star will go to washington for more also coming up us officials say president biden has given the green light for ukraine to fire american weapons across the.