to definitely pull just a yellow if that's what you present people. samples. very special. that's in the georgia. choose your favorite color. people are coming, but those people have not the qualified spend that's that we need. it's not, i mean the asian, even though it has been landed. so if i understand you correctly, you are suggesting me to import more one european immigrants know i would never use the word before to, to get what you know about the usual political debates. for the 2024. you repeat election. we, flipping the script walters will be at the center of the debate, and politicians will ask the questions on topics, shaping the election like migration i'm doing. yeah, i do think that or do you is fading wide once right now we're not supporting the most people. we are seeing the most us right. my name is so this one do you is not

failing in regards to migration at the moment. i think the you, you know, said we have enough migraines. did we need to integrate in our society? yes or no. do you think e u countries are a maximum capacity when it comes to migration? events of course have tragic backgrounds and when debating this, we cannot seeing that these are just numbers on the next us, but to dash human beings. but at the other hand, we as germany, especially face dire situations, economic growth, and to almost half of our social, off of the money we have as a federal nation, goes into social systems. and we add on maximum capacity in this regard. not starting to talk about our society. i think the 2 lou cuts the migration dynamics and trends. so you find doubts that at least 80 percent of the people will flee or

move from the context of origin remain in neighboring context. that means that only a very small portion of those fling, the region 7 countries come to europe. it's not adding the asian, even though it has been lab. it's so often to at least 60 year and often just before the elections, the numbers that are coming 1st of all, are still to the manageable piece, the shirts cycle. and if we look at the capacity, we still have capacity, no total intensive reception sensors, but also in terms of house use. and i come from a conflicts where many apartments are empty. if we look at jobs, so we have my label gap seen, many of our society is not totally easily, not only our money, but across the you. we need to not only from a human perspective, but we also need more workers. so there is a dropping 1st unity, right? the population is aging and we have a smoke may not support number of people that are willing to come to our society

and help us. where is the problem? it's not rocket science from all right. first of all, i haven't talked about invasion, that's like something to be a good conspiracy kind of thing. that's not the topic today. so 1st went up, 2nd phone, you were talking about, we have a dire situation of people not finding enough houses, enough possibilities to live in the city stair studying. so we have at least in germany, huge problems with housing might be better than like the small land this kind of countries. and the sort of thing is yes, people are coming. but those people have not the qualified spend. that's that we need an education is very expensive when i was in, i think it's called high school. i was like a substitute teacher to german crosses and i was for refugees and i did a very heavily and it was a great time and good people. but they were coming year, unable to read unable to write, and it was a huge to shoot each task to get them to, to stop learning language. and the huge task is to start them to learn german. so

it's, it's cost a lot of money to like make these people educate enough to get like the highly specialized jobs we have. we don't totally need to the highest cuter, many of the, our labor gaps are in small to medium companies, or all the jobs that they use in europe doesn't want to do anymore. because the conditions are very taxing. and people wants to do all the jobs we also need that's workforce, the workforce in the field. so the workforce for the care of the elderly, the nurses office and we already take them from, from all their context. so we need that, those people and the fact is that if we don't, i think if we don't include them well in a structured way, these people will arrive, but they will for come, which cleaning all networks. because if we don't offer them a way to properly learn the language, to learn also how it works in our society,

become just normal taxpayers. those we are contribute as they can't in our societies. what's gonna profit of them for us is the mafia which is already doing just during the last few years we have seen migration on so as a tool in the into more at the moment, for example, the russian finish folder is completely closed. that is permanent pressure on the lease right, and left to and then polish folders with the russian bellows because the russia to get a lot of us that using migrants as hybrid war 2. and this is i would say completely different situation comparing with. so quote, not trust at immigration. so what would be your comment? i think we have to be careful. we're not talking about some things that are used as tools. we have talking about people. i've been to the places which are mentioning

and i've seen people dying. i've seen families left in the wood signalman slammed with no one supporting them. i've seen our angel's not being able to provide food or else cuz they're so the stopped it from the door. so some go there. know, see some countries use people for their own interest, which is a problem i agree with you. so probably we should use that word to come out to excuse, and the sanctions or whatever you guys have to convince dogma to change course. first of all, 2nd, the state to use it and migration instrumentality, but maybe we can get better at that. we keep dealing with migration, we tend emergency and security sation approach, instead of for example, create lead me that struck those se sending us both ways. so all the people can not houston and put them on that we're bored this just to create fear, which we cannot by the way. cope was with c. this is of my coming on that. um,

yes of cause the tragedy is uh, rio, but we cannot oversee the fact that bet iris was using migrant welfare. i would call it in 2021 out on and 221 who was using a model did use it in 2021. it's a tool for them, so we need to, as a european union, make clear that we're not up to date games. we need to deal with these people. it's, it's a problem that we not need to talk to big data. so people who are not democratic, but for the sake of the people, we need to talk to them so we can make it as humanly as possible. so as you probably observed, also in german, the also the netherlands and the last time you observe grow. so the influence of right wing parties. so what the main reasons you think, why it's so it's a good question for me because i'm doing my ph. d, and extreme x. we extreme isn't research. so to make it simple, if you look at today as we're sitting here, the german statistics,

i'm try my being released. they up 5 percent nice related crimes arising and 41 percent of the crimes committed in germany. i commented by my friends as a fact that is somewhat of the danger coming from accessing my friends. that'd be kind of integrated by the other hand, they are profiting of fear. so what can we do to make a solution for this? first of all, the people who are here, we need to integrate them. second of all, we need to make clear to all people's political uh, education, that the people who are here are not the threats. and 2nd of all, we need to address the call problem. then we have unregulated migration to this too much for the civil society to take at the moment. so do you really believe that this will be only small amount of my to and school with come to the european union? mutare and we had the all the so to me your next pups yates some of them in the

past to germany. us guest workers, not all of the, tell the move to share money at that point. i don't think everyone we've come. most of because i've met many people in my work as an engineer worker, i mean, federal conflicts with didn't actually want to come to you or they wanted to stay on. we tend to think that you a piece the best in the world. and when you appeal and i love you are but people that there are homes that have the communities to have the societies they want to stay there. they come to you because they haven't all the way often to survive. they have to provide for the families, speed on some of them free from war, from an extreme pull, the t from desertification in climate change, which again are we are completed offer and then they are forced to come here a lie to you. if i understand you correctly, you are suggesting we shoot import more non european immigrants to europe because we need tax payers and we have shortage on our labor markets. is this correct?

no, i would never use the working poor to this is used for good. so that's why people have to, it's wrecked these pieces. now i just have, i want to go into the detail of this. so if we are talking about a highly skilled labor, aren't these people necessarily use in the countries of origin to develop these countries? a 2nd picture, you're talking about the lowest skill graybar. at this moment, the reality is that my country, belgian 50 percent on non european migrants are not working at all. and why is that you think of? because they don't have the skills to work and i, you know, highly develop because they don't have access to the labor market. because we've seen something very similar in need study where we have over 300000 people that are, you know, regular learning the territory. no documents mean no access to jump. so we have labeled upset, but the microns cannot feed them because we don't allowed them to. and so what concerns the highest kids didn't the lowest q the i think we should lets people decide for themselves. i think all of us here we have been migrants at some point a

we've had someone says so. so let's move because they wanted to move for law for family, for work for study. so i wouldn't put tech cop took, i would just create to or like, ask for the $0.02 to create this, not to my job safe and legal boss waste and also agreements that we had the low to be. so we also in europe, i mentioned before, the guesswork is from utility to germany is not the 1st time we did, which migration is just that now we are deciding to deal with it, but just to use it, but it's capable, it's in 2016 next to election, so that's my problem with that. so i can understand like what you're meaning with fear and stuff, but we have what he's saying is probably right. i don't know from which part do you come from? it might be like some of the might be from the wrong direction, but what he's saying is probably right, i'm from a small district, it's called the non cost casa, and we are thinking about like a work duty for my friends, because we have a lot of them think about 60 percent of the americans and social welfare. yes,

i know it's a problem to be able to get with the permission to work. but some of them simply, i'm not interested. so we're trying like a different way if you're here, if you're living well, social welfare, then be something back to like the society. we have like a work do you do? so you do ease of jobs, low school jobs, and i think that's live one way. if the people are here that you, that they have to do to, to work to give back to all social and it's a social um community. i agree that some people, some migraines hosted in our societies, don't want to work as much as so many thought. yes, and some germans don't want to work as much as somebody thought, you know, since some germans are claiming us. i do think though this, we are risk into creates pockets. so when their abilities and marginalization were by not offering appropriate inclusion pathways to people, language courses and, and so forth. what struck to the inclusion pathways, we do end up preventing them from really integrating in our societies and,

and accessing jobs, accessing the dictation and so forth. and i think that's the problem with then you have this pockets, these group of people that's without the stable home and without the stable job. and it's often said, pray of criminal networks menu. in those situation. we will do the same. it's always up to personal decision for sure. so you always have to choose between the right thing to do and to become a criminal. so there is no obligation to become criminal. i'm originally a teacher before i started my ph. d. and we're lacking the resources to be good schools. we cannot leg comprehend even more money into integration and measure us. and it's, they'll do a key problem you are right now is, did we have so many problems of war climate change, um education, migration, and it's all pulling from all sides. so we need to proud dries good all things in europe straight and then help the i think i'm the only person in this room who's actually a refugee. so point one about wanting to work. my mother was in the netherlands for

4 years. and because our state is, wasn't confirmed by the netherlands, couldn't work for years. she was manic depressive on the couch, wanting to work with the legal system. and the fact that the european systems are so slow did not give her the opportunity. so before we start talking about who wants to work, who doesn't want to work? if there are no clear numbers on it, let's not assume 2nd, which is a question which is about the housing crisis. obviously, a lot of the migrant population concentrates around big cities. partly because those are the cities that wants to accept them. how do you kind of unite the fact that smaller cities were you could spread out. and in order to combat the housing crisis in the cities and student cities where you need housing also for students. how do you unify that with the idea that migrants are somehow making it worse when politics are also not helping with that problem? some of the work we're doing like asylum kind of things for those people. and she

said that a lot of good people of costs, even though i have side of the crime. so just because of cost those people want to work. so we need to get them to work faster. it's a place you and we need to tackle it as germany as 0 as a collective. so that's number one, second of all the housing problem. so we have to probably offer this on to mos in some parts of germany in some parts of europe. that is because of costs to people are some of the freight of the other. so this is like an underlying problem that we, i think that's really how to check it. so education at play can also help you. but at the opposite side, as i said before, my desk, this problem that if people come here and we have a lot of issues, a lot of problems that happening, gang violence, etc. rather people lose trust and sort of all yes, politics i play. so we need to mix out of education, good examples and good integration, and so these people are accepted. i think it's a matter of investment. so how do we do that? how do we manage dots if we don't have money?

yes, and we will have less and less money going forward because we will have less and less taxpayers. so if we decide to prioritize migration as an investment to that is valued in useful for the european union. i think we will see the property that comes out of that. i'm not saying let's go and import people. i'm just saying let's create struck 2 ways so that if someone wants to come and they can do that in an orderly way in a safe way. and once they arrive, they don't have to wait for ears, which is a totally normal number of use to wait till say, need 30 it's good that we agree that we need probably a different answer. so different countries because the situation is different in the country. so would you agree with me that we need to truly a mechanism that allows people from 3rd countries that seek for jobs in the, in europe to apply to european jobs where we have shortages? yes, i think we need to very got validated tools very good to,

to books. i do think we can not put a quote on the refugees because of the nature of the outside people who come flying from war to hours doors we have international obligations. so we have to, has them, we have to host and support them. but i do think we need to have tools to manage migration into officer jobs. so it's not telling the story to use that have to funds that many companies and the product set to what they want to find those these instruments because they need it desperately, people to work for them. and then people can travel safely and not on. i think the bus on a flight and then when they arrive they have a job but which is meant for them to what we're discussing. could you repeat levels of course, also tell them full talent partnerships, but that includes any kind of whatever kind of cooperation with our country. maybe you can, you can give a short comment. also on, on what would be the criteria because we cannot cooperates or ask for cooperation

and then at the same time dismissed cooperation. if we don't like him, the results we have seen in the past at least from my point of view, from italy. each of these striking these sweet sleep out which to me shot. now we have been yada. this once he comments with a jeep, we have seen the taxpayers money going to fund the directly some armies or unofficial detention center. and this is a fox, the where people have been thought you'd abuse in any way. so my, the taxes, i pay, you went to there and i don't know how we can sleep but nights, but we try. i think something like that should not happen. i think we shouldn't strike the switch, not democratic countries. first of all or, and i know it's a bit blurred to what you see them across. the quote is not much where we have the eastern sees of countries perpetrating abuse is the the screen. and then these ation volume events, like we've seen, also recently which tanisha, when the dealer was made, we tanisha. and the type of from that we had there were migrants were fairly big

from the seat, is an abundant into that. and we've seen people women and keeps dying there because of stockton and also because of our policies and also because of our deal. i think that should not happen. then of course, if we exclude that, then we have another pool of countries. we can incorporate wasted. there are many corporation agreements already ongoing for other issues, so i'm sure we can find a solution also there for the migration the scheme. so china is doing some bad things. we will cooperate with them. and so i would say we should corporate, but the states, even though it hurts a bit, but we will cooperate with also as the wrong steps as well. so we need to put that on the same level and don't to try to get in just different standards. a 2nd question we've discussed a lot about of causal integration. maybe you can elaborate with a bit more on what would your prospectus be on? what should the european level do? what need the member states need to do? which at the local level to, for what concerns?

so what should the different levels do? i'm not a politician. i don't know. i do think though that we should deal with it as europe and not as individual countries, because if we take them to be black box, we don't go anywhere. we've seen also what's happening now. what happens with the we do you okay, the u. k. left, do you not only because of migration because of many, many reasons, but they also had an issue with migration and now that they are outside, high stepping soft. i have the salt in my personal issue is still there. so they only do for us now is that that you can use along, we don't want to be alone. we want to be together, everyone contributing with what the, how they can for consent, the national level of course. then you need specific policies. but then i think your role in of the people here is certainly to try and, and provide a collective solution that is linked to these needs. but it also brings up as a collect teeth for their do your opinion union as

a whole should work together. so 1st of all, your team level bought a security, very important european level, have like a solution for people to legally migrate into europe. your team level, make sure that the conditions and the pick and the congress that the people comfortable improve and on the nation that level of calls like um, make sure that the way sells or people can get into if they get here, that they can do good fast and the local level is probably the most pressure. it's like also suicide on the local level. first of all, when macro was trying to and germany, the federal level funded like the local level that ran out. so the local level was on the big crash at the moment, so we need some kind of relief there. and in general, like the local level day are there for like the big part day during the integration day are doing a lease in germany, the teaching they are doing like, um the social kind of stuff. so they need support and money and manpower just

i don't see that in the continent was 460000000 people. the number of arrivals are too high. and regarding asylum seekers, if they are in need of protection flying, war, and prosecution, the have to be protected, whatever the qualification is. what do you think is of the qualification of those who are arriving if they good asylum? yes or no. and what do you think of the needs we see within our member states? what i'm trying to say is that, 1st of all, i agree with my condo padia, that we don't need like only high school people and it's offend to see that people come here. and i like perfect the mazda degree mathematicians or something like that. i know no, and i, i'm just reinforcing to be done the need that but we need people who do a specialized jobs. so if we, for my example, start from people who are unable to read and try to bring them to

a level way to do high school tasks, need to communicate, have very different kinds of ways in the foster facing the environment where something evolves quickly. then it's very hard to get them educated to that level. it takes a lot of time. and so this is a problem at the same time, i said we have also manual labor who's like in workforce. so we need to kind of find a way like to balance things out to the question, to julia on the question of a lack of a european solitary too. because we are coming from a country which is a country worth or external bottle of the european union. and so i would like to see, did you hear a bit more about? what does that make with it tells you it's a, it's a nice italian society. indeed the, the show and you tell these quite to 1st by people. and we have park the, a polarized society where some people going to work on the and one to has. but

there is a lot strong see the society apart. and this is also the something that the correct arise europe and that we should cherish. but i would want to stress that even though easily, geographically east, the context at the moment and probably forever, we'd receive, wouldn't be the door to do you. people who come to come pick you up. the people who manage to enter easily, either from this send somebody to run your route or the west and botkin router, they have crossed a much worse board there as than you tell the front utility austria util the switzerland. so it is that it is, he thought he shouldering a lot for what concerns the 1st entry, but the people will be a new repeal issue. and this is another reason why we should look at the migration together. thank you for these debates. so for this remarkable debate, because you're talking about things call harmony, we all are involved in the zimmerman migration issues. and we never have such

discussion. so as does it happen for you into featured is judy on a new crush to, to be able to discuss with people or i think other opinions than yours, of course and but discuss it kind of renew, if possible, with facts. and i think it's a brilliant question also because i personally, i tend to surround myself with people that's more or less things like me. and probably we all do. so when i was codes to do this, i found the super interesting to hear another perspective because to me what i'm saying is not rocket science. it's not that i'm so pretty and just just as fox and the reality around us. so it was very interested to hear someone else coming from another european context a and having a different experience for me, which she's her, in this case. he's on ideas and the type of arguments with everyone to find a way for what i'm no trying to establish myself, whether you or the opposites,

we are trying to find some solutions like she will be on. so let me tell a short story of being a teacher when i was learning to be a teacher in germany studying it wasn't the class and that was discussing politics with them. and one people said, i don't need to discuss that. i've already made up my mind. i watched a take talk of some of the if the, if the alternative for germany and you pretty much said does i slow via blo, be smart vote blue. and the key problem number one is that a lot of people don't get into discussions. second problem is that sometimes especially a german university is as assume. so i presented this, there is no reason that would bade we and germany have a huge wave of like issues where like people try to storm discussions. so the space for all the discussion is at least that university is getting smaller. so the point is, we know it's, it's easy to say that, but we need political education more than ever. the problem is that it's easy to

use 5th and reasonable arguments. so this is a problem by a lot of we've not reached and sometimes not convinced of democracy. i actually loved the format. it's nice to get the opportunity to listen to citizens and to see how they think about these different issues. but i appreciate the host is just having a come to beat about migration. this almost never happens a is aggressive, it's the humanizing, it makes people feel very uncomfortable. and i see within this format actually got to hear the fears. people have around migration, but also the solutions we talk about migrants often as some of the people that need help and whether we should help them or not. but the reality of our daily lives in the question i ask for them is every single time we enter a car that we are the from our phone, abbas, or we buy something in the supermarket. when we go to a medical center,

the people there often are migrants. they are here because they wants to be here and we need them to be here. it's also for our own help in the sense they are helping us. i believe actually that we should revisit what it means to be a refugee as the world is burning, as so many places in the world to come in. habitable we should be at least open to give people protection that come from places and difficult. it takes a european added finally, when it comes to migration on a site, which is the most divisive issue in the pin agenda, but it takes a lot of european energy and, and then you'll be on a scale of responses of this and she will take it seriously, particularly the younger generation, because europe belongs to you and you belong to the

the, to the points. strong opinions, clear position. international perspective is europe on the verge of a major shift. our right political parties are gaining strength ahead of the european elections and it seems like you've gotten are the days when conservatives dismissed them to form coalitions this week on to the point of europe so far, right? attempting parker support and service to the point, the change 30 minutes on d w the

. this is the deputy news line from the job and he follows the us. i'm changes. it's paula city, on ukrainian weapons balance as well. now a lot of keys to use gym and weapons to hit certain targets inside russia. moscow was the move could lead to old out. we'll also on the program. donald trump becomes the 1st us president to be convicted of a crime. a jewelry in new york finds him guilty of falsifying documents to cover a sexual encounter with an out of film stuff in order to influence the outcome of the 2016 election.