a full con dreams of another world. the boss starts june, 1st d, w, the people are coming, but those people have not the qualified spend that's that we need. it's not, i mean, vision, even though it has been landed. so if i understand you correctly, you are suggesting me to import more run european immigrants. no, i would never use the word before to get what you know about the usual political debate. for the 2024. you repeat election? we flipping the script walters will be at the center of the debate, and politicians will ask questions on topics chasing the election. like migration i'm doing. yeah, i do think that or do you is fading mind once right now we're not supporting the most people. we are seeing the mazda threats. my name is so there's one do you is

not failing in regards to migration at the moment. i think the, you, you know, said we have enough migraines. did we need to end of it now? society? yes or no. do you think e u countries are a maximum capacity when it comes to migration? events of course have tragic backgrounds and when debating this, we cannot seeing that these are just numbers on the next us, but 2 dash human beings. but at the other hand, we as germany, especially face dire situations, economic growth, and to almost half of our social, half of the money we have as a federal nation, goes into social systems. and we add on maximum capacity and disregard. not starting to talk about our society. i think the 2 lou cuts the migration dynamics and trends. so you find doubts that at least 80 percent of the people will flee or

move from the context of origin remain enabling context. that means that only a very small portion of those fling, the region 7 countries come to europe. it's not adding the asian, even though it has been law, but so often to at least 60 year. and often just before the elections, the numbers that are coming 1st of all, are still to be manageable each the shirts. second, if we look at capacity, we still have capacity, no total intensive reception sensors. but hosting terms of house use. and i come from a context where many apartments are empty. if we look at jobs, so we have my label got see many of our societies not only easily, not only our money, but across the you. we need to not only from a human perspective, but we also need more workers to reset. dropping starts to, to, to right to the population is aging. and we have a small managed support number of people that are willing to come to our society

and help us. where is the problem? it's not the rocket science from all right. first of all, i haven't talked about invasion. that's like some come to be a good conspiracy kind of thing. that's not the topic today. so 1st one up, 2nd one you were talking about. we have a dire situation of people not finding enough houses, enough possibilities to live in the city state are studying. so we have at least in germany, a huge problems with housing might be better than like the small land this kind of countries and the sort of things. yes, people are coming. but those people have not the qualified stand. that's that we need an education is very expensive when i was and i think it's called high school . i was like a substitute teacher to german crosses and i was for refugees and i did a very heavily a. it was a great time and good people, but they were coming year, unable to read, unable to write. and it was a huge, a huge task to get them to, to stop learning language. and the huge task is to start them to learn german. so

it's, it's cost a lot of money to like make these people educate enough to get like the highly specialized jobs we have. we don't totally needed the highest cubes that many of our labor gaps are in small to medium companies, or all the jobs that they use in europe doesn't want to do anymore. because the conditions are very taxing and people wants to do all the jobs. we also needed that's workforce, the workforce in the field. so the workforce for the care of the elderly, the nurses office and we already take them from, from all the context. so we need that those people. and the fact is that if we don't, i think if we don't include them well in a structured way, these people will arrive, but they will for cook with cleaning all networks. because if we don't offer them a way to properly learn the language, to learn also how it works in our society,

become just normal taxpayers. those we are contribute as the county know what societies was gonna profit of them for us is the mafia which is already doing just during the last few years we have seen migration on so as a tool in the, in the more at the moment, for example, the russian finish folder is complete, the closest there is per month and pressure on the lease. so a lot to and then polish folders with the russian bellows because the russia to get a lot of us using migrants as hybrid war tools. and this is, i would say completely different situation comparing with so called metro emigration . so what would be your comment? i think we have to be careful. we're not talking about some things that are used as tools. we are talking about people. i've been to the places which are mentioning

and i've seen people dying. i've seen families left in the same moments, plans with no one supporting them. i've seen our n g also not being able to provide food or a sca there. so the fact that some dictators, so some i go there know, see some countries use people for their own interest, which is a problem i agree with you. so probably we should use that were due to march excuse . and the sanctions, or whatever you guys have to convince dema to change course. first of all, 2nd, the state to use it's an migration instrumentality, but maybe we can get better at that. we keep dealing with migration, we turn emergency and security sation approach, instead of for example, create, lead me that struck those say tend to go fast way so, so all the people can not houston and put them on our board. this just to create fear, to which we can not. so by the way, cope was with c. if i come in on that, um, yes of cause the tragedy is uh, rio,

but we cannot oversee the fact that bet iris was using migrant welfare. i would call it in 2021, out on and 20 to one who was using a model. cool. did use it in 2021. it's a tool for them. so we need to, as a european union, make clear that we are not up to date games. we need to deal with these people. it's, it's a problem that we might need to talk to big data. so people who are not democratic, but for the sake of the people, we need to talk to them so we can make it as humanly as possible. so as you probably upset and also in general and the also the netherlands in the last time you observe grow. so the influence of right wing parties. so what the main reasons you think, why it's so it's a good question for me because i'm doing my ph. d and extreme include extreme isn't research. so to make it simple, if you look at today as we're sitting here,

the german statistics, i'm try my being released the 5 percent knife related crimes arising and 41 percent of the crimes committed in germany. i commented by my friends, they as a fact, they is somewhat of a danger coming from accessing my friends that we cannot integrate, but at the other end they are profiting of fear. so what can we do to make a solution for this? first of all, the people who are here, we need to integrate them. second of all, we need to make clear to all people's political uh, education, that the people who are here are not the threats. and 2nd of all, we need to address the call problem. then we have unregulated migration to this too much for the civil society to take at the moment. so do you really believe that this will be only small amount of my to and school would come to the european union? mutari and we had the over $13000000.00 next pups yates some of them in the past to

germany. us guest workers, not all of the till the move to chair money at that point. i don't think everyone we've come, most of because i've met so many people in my work as an engineer worker, i mean federal conflicts with didn't actually want to come to you or they wanted to stay on. we tend to think that you a piece the best in the world and when you appeal, i love you are but to people that there are homes that have the communities to have the societies they want to stay there. they come to you because they haven't all the way often to survive. they have to provide for the families, speed on some of them free from war, from an extreme poverty from desertification and climate change, which again we are completed offer and then they're forced to come here a lie to you. if i understand you correctly, you are suggesting we shoot, import more non european immigrants to europe because we need tax payers and we have short that you on our labor markets. is this correct?

no, i would never use the working poor to this is used for good. so that's why people have to, it's wrecked these pieces. now i just have, i want to go into the detail of the. so if we are talking about a highly skilled labor, aren't these people necessarily use in the countries of origin to develop these countries? a 2nd thanks. we are talking about the lowest skilled labor at this moment. the reality is that my country, belgian 50 percent on non european migrants are not working at all. and why statues inc, because they don't have the skills to work. and i, you know, highly develop because they don't have access to the labor market. because we've seen something very similar in each study where we have over 300000 people that are either regular in the territory. no documents mean no access to jump. so we have to label gaps, but the microns cannot feed them because we don't allowed them to. and so what concerns the highest kids in the lowest queue that i think we should lets people decide for themselves. i think all of us here we have been like once at some point

a we've had someone says, so that's mostly because they wanted to move for law for family, for work for study. so i wouldn't put top cop took. i would just create to or like, ask for the 2 students to create this, not to my jump safe and legal boss waste and also agreements that we had a lot to be. so we also in europe, i mentioned before, the guesswork is from utility to germany is not the 1st time we did which migration is just the now we are deciding to deal with it. but just to use it as a scapegoat in 2016 next to election. so that's my problem with that. so i can understand like what you're meaning with fear and stuff, but we have what he's saying is probably right. i don't know from which part of you come from, it might be like some of the might be from the wrong direction. but what he's saying is probably right, i'm from a small district, it's called the non cost casa, and we are thinking about like a work duty for my van's because we have a lot of them. i think about 60 percent of the americans and social welfare. yes,

i know it's a problem to be able to get with the permission to work, but some of them simply, i'm not interested. so we are trying like a different way. if you're here, if you're living or social welfare, then be something back to like the society. we have like a work do you do? so you do easy job slows, go jobs. and i think that's live one way. if the people here that you that they have to do to, to work to give back to all social and it's a social um community. i agree that some people, some migraines hosted in our societies, don't want to work as much as so many times. yes. and some germans don't want to work as much as somebody thought, you know, since some gems are claiming us. i do think to this, we are re scheme to creates pockets. so when their abilities and marginalization were by not offering appropriate inclusion, possibly to people language courses and, and so forth. what struck to the inclusion pathways, we do end up preventing them from really integrating in our societies and,

and accessing jobs, accessing the dictation and so forth. and i think that's the problem with then you have this paul cuts, these group of people that's without the stable home and without the stable job. and that often said, pray of criminal networks menu. in those situation, we will do the same. it's always up to personal decision for sure. so you always have to choose between the right thing to do and to become a criminal. so there is no obligation to become criminal. i'm originally a teacher before i started my ph. d. and we're lacking the resources to build good schools. we cannot leg comprehend even more money into integration and measure us. and it's the key problem you have right now is did we have so many problems of war climate change um education, migration, and it's all pulling from all sides. so we need to prioritize get all the things in europe straight, and then help the and i think i'm the only person in this room who's actually a refugee. so point one about wanting to work. my mother was in the netherlands for

4 years. and because our state is, wasn't confirmed by the netherlands, couldn't work for years. she was manic depressive on the couch, wanting to work with the legal system. and the fact that the european systems are so slow did not give her the opportunity. so before we start talking about who wants to work, who doesn't want to work? if there are no clear numbers on it, let's not assume 2nd, which is a question which is about the housing prices. obviously, a lot of the migrant population concentrates around big cities. partly because those are the cities that wants to accept them. how do you kind of unite the fact that smaller cities were you could spread out. and in order to combat the housing prices in the cities and students, cities where you need housing also for students. how do you unify that with the idea that migrants are somehow making it worse when politics are also not helping with that problem, my mother works. we're doing like a solemn kind of things for those people. and she said that

a lot of good people of costs, even though i have side of the crime. so this is of course those people want to work. so we need to get them to work faster. it's a issue and we need to tackle it as germany, as europe, as a collective. so that's number one, second of all the housing problems. so we have to probably offer this on to most in some parts of germany in some parts of europe. that is because of costs to people are somewhat afraid of the other. so this is like an underlying problem that we, i think that's really how to check it. so education at play can also help you. but at the opposite side, i said it before, my desk, this problem that if people come here and we have a lot of issues, a lot of problems that are happening, gang violence, etc, rather people lose trust and sort of all yes, politics that play. so we need to mix out of education, good examples and good integration. and so these people are accepted. i think it's a matter of investment. so how do we do that? how do we manage that? if we don't have money?

yes, and we will have less and less money going forward because we, we have less and less taxpayers. so if we decide to prioritize migration as an investment to the, to somebody than useful for the european union, i think we will see the prophy that comes out of that. i'm not saying let's go and import people. i'm just saying let's create struck 2 ways. so that if someone wants to come and they can do that in an orderly way in a safe way and once they arrive, they don't have to wait for years, which is a totally normal number of use to wait till so you need that. it's good that we agreed that we need probably a different answer. so different countries because the situation is different in the country. so would you agree with me that we need to tool a mechanism that allows people from 3rd countries that seek for jobs in the, in europe to apply to european jobs where we have shortages? yes, i think we need to have already got validated tools. i've already got the 2 books.

i do think we can not put a quote on the refugees because of the nature of the onside newman. people who come flying from war to hours doors we have international obligations. so we have to, has them, we have to host and support them. but i do think we need to have tools to managed migration into officer jobs. so it's not only del, sorry to use that have to fund that many companies in the private sector. they want to find out these instruments because they need it desperately, people to work for them. and then people can travel safely and not to not didn't get but on a flight. and then when they arrived, they have a job but which is meant for them. that's what we're discussing. could you repeat level, as of course also tell them full tell them partnerships, but that includes any kind of whatever kind of cooperation with for a country. maybe you can, you can give a short comment. also on, on what would be the criteria because we cannot corporate or ask for cooperation

and then at the same time, dismissed cooperation. if we don't like him. the results we've seen in the past, at least from my point of view, from easily, easily striking these sweets lead me out with tanisha. now we took pena this once. he comments with a jeep the. we have seen the taxpayers money going to fund the directly, some armies or unofficial detention centers. and this is a fuck the where people have been thought you'd abuse in any way. so my, the taxes i pay went there and i don't know how we can sleep but nights, but we try, i think something like that should not happen. i think we should and strikes the switch, not democratic countries. first of all, or, and i know it's a big blow to what use them across the board is not much where we have the eastern seas of countries. perpetrating abuse is the, the security on that is ation violence. like we've seen also recently which tanisha, when the dealer was made, we tanisha. and the type of from that we had,

there were migrants were certainly big from the cities and abundant into this, that we've seen people, women and keeps dying there because of stockton. and also because of our policies and also because of i would deal, i think that should not happen. then of course if we exclude that, then we have another pool of countries. we can cooperate wasted. there are many corporation agreements already ongoing for other issues. so i'm sure we can find a solution also there for the migration schemes, china, assuming some bad things will cooperate with them. and so i would say we should corporate, but the states, even though it hurts a bit, but we will cooperate with also other wrong stats as well. so we need to put that on the same level and don't to try to get him to different stand. that's a 2nd question. we've discussed a lot about of causal integration. maybe you can elaborate with a bit more on what would your perspective on what should the european level do? what need the member states need to do, which at the local level to for what concern?

so what should the different levels do? i'm not the politician. i don't know. i do think though that we should deal with it as europe and not as individual countries because if we take them to be like boss, we don't go anywhere. we've seen also what's happening now. what happens with the we do you okay, the u. k. left, do you not only because of migration because of many, many reasons, but they also had an issue with migration and now that they are outside, has that been soft? i have the salt in my personal issue is still there, so they only do for us now is that that you can use alone. we don't want to be alone. we want to be together, everyone contributing with what they, how they can for consent, a national level of course. then you need specific policies. but then i think your role and of the people here is certainly to try and, and provide a collective solution that is linked to these needs. but it also brings us as a collective for their do your opinion union as

a whole should work together. so 1st of all, your team level bought a security, very important european level, have like a solution for people to legally migrate into europe, europe, same level, make sure that the conditions and the pick and the congress that the people comfortable improve and on the nation and level of calls like um, make sure that the way cells or people can get into if they get here, that they can do good fast and the local level is probably the most pressure. it's like also suicide on the local level. first of all, when macro was tons of on germany, the federal level sounded like the local level that ran out certain local levels on the big pressure at the moment. so we need some kind of relief there. and the in general, like the local level, they are therefore like the big part day during the integration day are doing, at least in germany, the teaching they are doing like, um, the social kind of stuff. so they need support and money and manpower. and

i don't see that in the continent was 460000000 people. the number of arrivals are too high. and regarding asylum seekers, if they are in need of protection flying will and persecution, the have to be protected. whatever the qualification is. what do you think is of the qualification of those who are arriving if they get asylum? yes or no. and what do you think of the needs we see within our member states? what i'm trying to say is that, 1st of all, i agree with my condo padia, that we don't need like only high school people and it's offend to see that people come here. and i like perfectly mazda degree mathematicians or something like that . i no, no, no, and i, i'm just reinforcing to be done the need that but we need people who do it special last jobs. so if we, for my example, start from people who are unable to read and try to bring them to

a level way to do high school tasks, need to communicate, have very different kinds of ways in the foster facing the environment where something evolves quickly. then it's very hard to get them educated to that level of takes a lot of time. and so this is a problem at the same time. i said we have also manual labor who's like in workforce. so we need to kind of find a way like to balance things out to the question, to julia on the question of a lack of a european solitary too. because we are coming from a country which is a country with our ex tunnel bottom of the european union. and so i would like to see, did you hear a bit more about? what does that make with it tells you it's a, it's a nice italian society. indeed, the, the show and you tell these quite to 1st by people and we have park the, a polarized society where some people want to welcome the and want to have, but there is

a lot strong see the society part. and this is also the something that the correct arise europe and that we should cherish. but i would want to stress that even though easily, geographically east, the context at the moment and probably forever, we'd receive would be the door to the you. people will come to come pick you up, the people who manage to enter easily, either from the send somebody to run your route or the western botkin router. they have crossed a much worse board there as than you tell the front utility austria util the switzerland. so it is that it is, he thought he shouldering a lot for what concerns the 1st entry, but the people will be on you will be an issue. and this is another reason why we should look at the migration together. thank you for this. the bates, uh for this remarkable would you be because you're talking with things called harmony. we are all involved in the zimmerman migration issues. and we never have

such discussion. so as does it happen for you into featured in georgia and i know cash to, to be able to discuss with people or i think or the opinions than yours, of course and the discuss it kind of renew if possible, with facts and i think it's a brilliant question also because i personally, i tend to surround myself with people that's more or less things like me and probably we all do. so when i was close to do this, i found the super interesting to hear another perspective because to me what i'm saying is not rocket science. it's not that i'm so pre and just just as fox and the reality around us. so it was very interested to hear someone else come from another european context a and having a different experience for me, which she's her, in this case. he's on ideas and the type of arguments with everyone to find a way for what i'm not trying to establish myself of you or the opposites. we are

trying to find some solutions like she will be on. so let me tell a short story of being a teacher when i was learning to be a teacher in germany studying it was in the class and that was discussing politics with them. and one people said, i don't need to discuss that. i've already made up my mind, i watched a take talk of some of the sd of the alternative for germany, and he pretty much said zeiss lot of your blo be smotts vote blue. and the key problem number one is that a lot of people don't get into discussions. second problem is that sometimes especially a german university is as a student. so i presented this, there is no reason that would bade we and germany have a huge wave of like issues where i people try to storm discussions. so the space for all the discussion is at least that university is getting smaller. so the point is, we know it's, it's easy to say that, but we need political education more than ever. the problem is that it's easier to

use 5th and reasonable arguments. so this is a problem by a lot of but i'm not reached. and sometimes i've convinced of democracy. i actually loved the format, it's nice to get the opportunity to listen to citizens and to see how they think about these different issues. but i appreciate the host is just having a come to beat about migration. this almost never happens, a is aggressive, it's the humanizing, it makes people feel very uncomfortable. and i feel within this format actually got to hear the fears. people have around migration, but also the solutions we talk about migrants often as some of the people that need help and whether we should help them or not. but the reality of our daily lives in the question i ask for them is, every single time we enter a car that we weren't from our phone of us, or we buy something in the supermarket. when we go to a medical center,

the people there often are migrants. they are here because they wants to be here, and we need them to be here. it's also for our own help in the sense they are helping us. i believe actually that we should revisit what it means to be a refugee as the world is burning. as so many places in the world become inhabitable we should be at least open to give people protection that come from places on difficult. it takes a european added finally, when it comes to migration on a site, which is the most divisive issue in the piano agenda. but it takes a lot of european energy and, and then you'll be on a scale of responses of this. and she'll take it seriously, particularly the younger generation, because europe belongs to you and you belong to the of

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this is dw news lie, but from berlin donald trump says that he will appeal his historic guilty verdict. the 1st former us president to be convicted of a crime, shows that he will fight what he claims as an unfair conviction. the jury yesterday concluded that he did falsify documents to cover up pushed money that was paid to an adult film in stock. also, coming up in berlin follows washington and saying that it will now allow ukraine to use weapons western weapons to hit targets inside rush up la scale warning, the move could lead to an all out war and the party. that's the route south africa . since the end of the parts i think is major loss is as the election results come in.