more ranging in europe, and then ever more a sort of china, this seems to be the moment for nato to prove itself. but there is another task looming for host joe, biting and many heated debates about his age and fitness. the president of nato's most powerful member will have to make the case to the leaders gathered that he is . in fact, up for the job, i'm nicole fairly in berlin and this is the day the, this somebody to be a successful decisions for the future of the test on the 1st of the pieces on gravity. i don't have any concerns from the many conversations i've had with the american president. i know that he is prepared to summit very well and very precisely together with us. i have also seen that with

president bio and everything he's the last of the place that is proven cannot divide us. he can out, not out last us, cannot. we can us and ukraine, not russia will prevail, is also on the day tight rope act in moscow. is india's prime minister and the render moody visits flooding were put in for the 1st time. since rush us full scale invasion of ukraine, a mighty some months. our relationship is extremely important. visual galia not only for our 2 countries today, but also for the entire world. the going ahead welcome to the show at 75, most of us hope to be enjoying the purse of retirement and taking things a little bit slower. well, for nato that couldn't be further from the truth. it's been 75 years since the us,

canada, and western european countries forged an alliance to deter, associate expansionism, keep peace in europe. and encouraged european political integration began with just 12 members, has now grown into an alliance of 32 nations. today, their leaders and partners are meeting in washington for assignments that will be much more than just a birthday celebration. the challenges facing them are many, some old, some new supplying grain with what it needs to find off rushes invasion will be top of the agenda. so once again, natal faces the question of how to contain russia, but the big picture is more complicated. now, among other issues, leaders are seeking ways to push back against russia, china, north korea, and iran in the and no pacific region. we use in his pull reports or nato was created on a promise to us and best on europe would defend each other as they would defend

themselves, their common enemies in this subject union. also, the end of the cold war, the west seemed to have one blood rushed us invasion of ukraine. more than 2 years ago changed everything. nato suddenly became relevant again and its future is now in the political spot. when he does for a member of the countries comma in washington, it's not just for a birthday party and the celebration of its recent expansion to so to, to member states and also discuss changes already taken in those still necessary. the response of restaurants invasion to ukraine, that'd be anxious to be looking at america's future engagement. and that'll be also looking beyond your nato's increased presence in the in the pacific region is designed to defend democracy and protect the region crucial to the global economy. but some say, this increased presence will not be welcome. i think nato and his member states and

other european institutions do suffer from a charges of double standards hypocrisy when it comes to a universalizing. their mission. and the feeling in many parts of the global south is that uh, the standards only apply when your insecurity or need to interest started stake. but our convenient fee set aside when other country share similar concerns about things happening in their regions and their countries. considering the many conflicts, owens in which nato is engaged, it's likely to need more money. that makes the question of how american support will look in the future even more important, summer, austin, even if the united states government keeps paying money, will they continue paying attention? well, nothing is deaf, i'm very godless of who the next president of the united states is up in regard to

this important political agenda. he or she has. the americans might focus more on the end of the pacific and for reasons involving china and other factors. and then if they do that, it's not so that they will be able to maintain that engagement in europe, to the same extent as our prospects units. we have seen that an effect. and if that's the case, if that happens, then we must prepare ourselves for it. that is the challenge. we must collectively face and you're on the phone with them as we wants to minds. i'm an old punched day and the prospect of of seconds donald trump presidency puts a shadow over all of this. well, i think trump will cause nato severe difficulties, even if he doesn't withdrawal, although i think it's more likely he will withdraw. outwardly, the summit will celebrate and they do 75 year success story. delegates will be wrestling with many sensors 1st and i'm drawing now by rows. gotcha, miller. she was the deputy secretary general of nato for 3 years under a secretary,

generally in stoughton work today. she's the lecturer at stanford university. freeman slowly institute for international studies. welcome to the day rose at this summit marks nato's 75th anniversary. where do you see nato at 75? at 75, i've seen nato as a surprisingly strong and coherent organization. it is the, i would say, longest surviving alliance in history, and it has in recent years, continued to build a, develop it strengths and coherence in really countering this aggression helping ukraine to fight a russia and to push back against russian aggression in europe. and so i do think that the alliance is added 75th birthday in a relatively good spot, at least in terms of its internal coherence and its strength of purpose. looking at the state of the world more broadly and with one of your areas of expertise being arms control. do you think we're now in a more dangerous new clear situation than we were during the cold war?

frankly, it's true that vladimir putin has been rattling was the nuclear saber, as well as his loyal deputies throughout this war and ukraine. i think frankly, that the greatest in some ways, threats has passed. there was a time in october, november of 2022 when the russians thought they were losing and they seemed to be ready to pull the nuclear trigger. but now they seem to be in, i think they think they are in a better situation. so although they continue to threaten nuclear use, i think in the end of the day that they feel more confident in their conventional capabilities now. and they're playing the waiting game. also. they think that time is on their side in this war. you're the 1st and to this day, only woman to serve as deputy secretary general of nato. there has never been a female secretary general. i want to know from you because, you know, the alliance from the inside. you know, the structures is nato. still

a boy's club to this day. i as well, i hope i won't long be the 1st and only deputy secretary general of nato who's a female. but we'll see what happens there will be a new deputy secretary general selected at the same time that mark router is assuming his post as the new secretary general. so i think it's sort of a good moment to think about who the next one might be as a female. but you know, it's interesting. i have seen a big change in nato, even in the time i was there. i think when i arrived in 2016 in october, yes, nato was still significantly a boy's club. but in that time and i give you an installed and berg, and his assistant secretaries general full credit for this, they have really pushed hard to bring women into not only the top leadership of the organization, but where it's important to change the culture. and that is into middle and lower management levels as well. so i really do think that nato isn't a better place than it was in 2016 when i arrived. what are the effects of giving

more women a seat at the table at a place like nato, a defense alliance? and i think that having women at the table in any event brings the different problem solving dynamic, women don't tend to get into the same 0. some stand offset ma'am, can sometimes get into when they're butting heads. women are willing to look around for ways to, to bring the temperature down and, and to try to find a solution that makes sense for everybody. they're also very good at bringing a lot of stakeholders to the table and making sure that everybody is satisfied. so that in the end of the day, you don't have kind of attempts to undo a decision in the, in the back office as i'm in the corridor. so i think in many ways, having more women managers up of nato at every level has helped of the lines to be a better organization. now that you mentioned stakeholders, many of them are in washington this week. what's at stake for the alliance and as

partners at the summit? or i think really the resolve of nato is the big question on the table. the resolved to continue is assistance to ukraine, front and center, but also the resolve to continue to move into the future because there's a lot going on in innovation and technology. there's a lot of developments we're seeing on the ground and ukraine in terms of the use of drones and so forth. so many, many changes occurring and how more will be fought in the future. and they don't needs to stay ahead of that curve. so technology and innovation, how will nato adapt, towel nato continue to move into the future as an effective military and fighting force? this is going to be a very important aspect of, of what made it was working on as well as at the summit. and it's a big challenge because it's expensive, it requires those investments that some natal member states have been reluctant to

make in the past are doing better now much better. but nevertheless, it will be a big resource investment in future president job. i'm hospice summit and he does so under intense scrutiny. how big a role do you expect a discussion about his fitness for office to play at the meeting as well? you know, joe biden is our most experienced politician in my view and over the years he has taken a norm this amount of interest in for him and defense policy. so he is also very experienced in terms of the nato agenda and in terms of what is a priority for nato. so i do believe that he is certainly in terms of his experience and knowledge. he is a very fit and ready to continue that. that leadership role of courses age has been a huge question in our election campaign. it really burst even more onto the scene after the debacle of the debate was with mr. trump a couple of weeks ago. but i do hope that the members will find that the president

is focused on the issues that matter to them, and also the issues that matter to future strength and coherence of nato. what do you think nato allies and foreigners are right to be concerned about buying them? after all these episodes that you just name? i think it will be up to president biden during the summer meeting to convey that he is, as he said, time and time again, ready to carry his presidency forward into a 2nd term. and so he's going to have to make that case to be allies. there's no question because there are many, many questions on the table. so he's going to have to, to uh, answer to those concerns. and uh, i think he will be able to do so. but a lot depends on you know, what else is happening in the world these days and these days are pressures arrives at verizon from all directions, referring to the terrible attack that the russians perpetrated on the children's hospital. in key of, i'm expected, i'm expecting,

i'm worried about more such mischief as the summit unfolds, you know, whether or not he'll be able to reassure partners there are serious doubts about whether he'll be able to beat donald trump. what would a 2nd term term mean for the alliance as well? you know, i was deputy secretary general of nato during trump's 1st term and office. and i saw him during a several summit meetings at nato. he was unrelenting, clearly in pushing the alliance to spend more the allies in europe and canada to spend more on their own defense. and they have committed apps. wells, the summit in wales in 2014, after putting invaded crimea, they committed to spend 2 percent of their gross domestic product product on defense. and so tremples, unrelenting pressure was very high, but to be honest with you sector, joining us still under my boss. and i felt that it was important that the president

was pressing those point. american presidents from jack kennedy on have said that the allies are free loading, they need to be spending more on their own defense. the united states cannot carry the burden alone. and so that message in some ways was very welcome. so i say trump got the momentum going during his 1st time in the office. i think you'll be please now that more allies of stepped up $23.00 out of $32.00 allies are now spending 2 percent of g. d. p on the fence that's because uprooted and then the threat he poses you haven't had also made remarks along the lines that, that countries that don't reach that 2 percent kind of a goal would be in a way. and i'm paraphrasing here a fair game for russia. where does that leave nato as a whole because that defeats the purpose? doesn't that as well? trump says a lot on the campaign trail that i don't know if he would bring into office with him. if you can say anything about donald trump, he is unpredictable. but i think it's going to be up to the allies,

those remaining 9 allies who have not reached 2 percent of g d p to really get themselves into gear and add work to approach that, that level because the allies are also agreeing at the some of the interesting way about 2 percent is not a ceiling, it's a floor. and then all allies need to be prepared to spend more on their own defense and go beyond 2 percent of g d p. so there are, there's not going to be any space for the laggards, essentially. and i think that that will have to be a very strong message coming out of this of this summer. as for trumps of threats that we would have a kind of to speed alliance with some countries, you know, under the protection of the article 5, a treaty commitment to defend them should they be attacked. and the other is not because they haven't spent enough. you know, this is a recipe for touring the alliance of parts. so i think it's, it's an idiotic idea. and frankly, it's going to be something that the allies are going to have to. i think work hard

to address should come, come back into office again. now we are celebrating or nato except and celebrating the 75th anniversary this year. 75 years from now, do you think nato will still exist as well? 75 years from now. it would be wonderful when that if the, if all the principles of the un charter were equally embraced and, and agreed by every country around the world. and there was no more aggression and no more for us to sovereignty and territorial integrity. so i would hope for that nirvana to appear, but i kind of doubted. so yes, i think that would be a role for nato 75 years from now. and i think it could come in to that 70 at that point 150 of birthday as strong and coherent as of as ever. that was roosevelt and miller, former deputy secretary general of nato. pleasure of speaking to you. thank you so much for making the time. my pleasure.

all nato leaders match a washington india's prime minister, new friend promoting, made his 1st state visits to moscow since russia's full scale invasion of ukraine came with a hug for president of letting me put that one. not twice but at least 3 times the leader of the world's largest democracy, embracing a man internationally wanted for work. right. those hugs are now going viral. ukraine's president will let them or the landscape, call them a huge disappointment and a devastating blow to peace efforts. during his talks and moscow, moody said, as he told vladimir putin, that piece was of quote, close importance. but again, he stopped short of condemning the war and ukraine. he said that indians economy had benefit from a strategic partnership with russia. india stepped up in ports of russian oil, despite criticism from western countries at a foot sanctions on long scale and cheese. this. my next guest is an expert on

india, n as relations, a broad. i'm pleased to welcome to the day michael google when he's the director of the south asia institute at the wilson center thing tech. he joins us tonight from washington dc. good to see that. let's at the seeing 1st, how important is russia for india? quite important. on a very concrete level, there are things that russia has long provided and continues to provide india in india. believe that cannot get from any other country. and certainly not at the cost point that it gets them from russia. one of those things that energy, particularly oil, we've seen india increase its oil imports from russia in recent years and including since the invasion of ukraine. and the other thing is, weapons other certain types of a weapon re significant levels of weapon rate that india has long relied on for russia and these days, one of the main examples is missile defense. this is something that india has continued to look to from russia. so even as india has been strengthening its

relations with so many other countries around the world, as we know, continues to look to russia. russia is also in india, as you certainly a new delhi and also within the general public, it has a special kind of a, there's a special kind of view of russia, which i think is rooted in a solid or from cold war days when the relationship 1st formed, and that is to look at russia is essentially india is most trusted and most dependable friend. what's in this for russia? because boot and has been forwarding closer ties with china, especially as well since the launch of the full scale invasion of ukraine. why does he need india as well? i mean, russian doesn't have many friends these days, or i should say that it doesn't have many powerful friends, right? indeed, it is friends in its ties with china, particularly since the war and ukraine began. but otherwise, it doesn't really have many powerful friends, not named china, in that sense. india as important. india is a critical customer getting, receives

a significant levels of energy from russia, significant levels of alarm supplies. and at the moment when russia's economy is very uncertain, as it's bogged down and you train, it really cannot take any friend for granted. and particularly a longstanding friend and a globally significant friend like india. so india will continue to be a very important country for russia. india has maintained neutrality in the war against ukraine, downloading, says he discussed the conflict openly and in detail with poor. what do you think the conversation looked like as well as i understand it, the money repeated a message that he has been putting out there ever since russia invaded the ukraine, and that is the, essentially, the war needs to end. um, as i understand it, money had said that, uh, this is a war that can't be settled, settled on the battlefield. and he essentially pushed for the war to end through diplomacy, dialogue, de escalation and so on. now that is,

that certainly false sort of outright condemning the war, but this is something that india is not willing to do because of its special relationship with russia. so i think that for, for india, which certainly does not support the war and indeed its interests are not served by an ongoing warren, you train. india hopes that by continuing to pressure russia, including foods, and to try to figure out a way to end this war, that eventually that will take dividends and eventually we will start to see at the escalation. but of course, you know, even if a close friend like, like india, is pressuring russia to try to bring the war to an end. that is not going to in my view, at least that is not going to prompt tutoring to decide, okay, let's end the war now. in india stands of this public neutrality you mentioned it earlier, has been dictated, mostly by national interest. how has that affected india as ties with the west? they would have liked to see a strong condemnation of the war. i'm assuming, right, i mean, the west, including washington and other nato countries,

have grudgingly accepted india's position. and that is to refrain from contending the war, but still oppose it. and i think that the, for india it's, it's been experiencing a major diplomatic challenge. this is one of the many reasons why it doesn't support brushes, war and ukraine is put, ending in a very difficult spot where it has indeed sought to appease both the west and russia by, you know, essentially standing on the fence and, and refusing to, to condemn the war but also calling for it to, to, to and it's very difficult for, for india to maintain this position for now. so long as we continue to see that stalemate planning on ukraine, i think i can continue to, to do that successfully in the sense that it's, it's eyes with both russia and the west have remained quite robust still for the last 2 years despite the war. but if we were to see in the coming months or the coming years, if this war at the nature of this warmer to change, if it were to intensify,

if it were to somehow extend or expand to other countries. well that would put in india in a very difficult spot. it would stay significant levels of pressure from the west. and i think that would make its balancing act all the more difficult to pull off. but this is, this is what india's foreign policy on the whole, has been for many years what it describes a strategic autonomy, this idea of maintaining an independent foreign policy where you don't throw yourself in any camp and where you try to manage relations with countries that don't lot get along with each other in order to maximize your, uh, your options and flexibility in which your foreign policy hasn't paid off so far as well. i mean, it has in the sense that, um, you know, today india is relations with russia are, are in a very good place that's relations with the us and the nato states on the whole aren't a very good place that's relations with the west or in a good place, it's relations with the global south, which generally has good relations with russia, are in a very good place. and you know, for this reason, some has,

has indicated that perhaps indeed could be one of the very few countries that might have the capacity to serve in the role of a mediator to try to get the warring parties, the russians, and the ukrainians to, to wind down this war and do you have good relations with russia? it also had a fairly good relationship with ukraine, though. clearly crane for good reason was very upset about motives visit to, to russia. because of this, this situation where india has been relations with these. but with, with all the belligerents, it might have the capacity to play that role. but only if the belligerents actually want there to be mediation and one india to play that mediating role. and quite frankly, it doesn't seem like anyone is ready. none of the religions belligerence are ready for this war to wind down, but india does have that special status thing in that special relationship with russia. a good relationship with ukraine. it might have that capacity to play that role of a mediator, but not, not, not any time in the immediate future. fascinating and side. so as michael told them

when the director of the south asia institute at the wilson center thing to thank you so much. thank you a lesser time, but make sure to stay informed. stay engaged and stay in touch. you can fall our team on social media, oriental there is at the the we news if it's really the headlines we're looking for . there's always our website dw, dot com for now though from the entire team here on the day. and you so much for spending part of your day with us by the

name the number one, shaw, sophia. but how is the multi 1000000000 euro business failing in the age of renewable energy? even the saudi arabia is banking on a green future. all the oil multi nationals cooling eclipse logo us next d w. because the river is really easy in uganda is under threat. sand mining, water contamination and plastic waste of destroying this imposing voltage source

communities are taking steps to protect the ecosystem, piece of material. he has a new and i'm here we bring it the law process. i knew today's victims. why is that before that? 16 minute on dw, the sometimes it's hard to find what you're looking for. but we've got something for you talked about why does that? because now i'm leaving the new host to join us for an exciting explanation of everything in between.

this is a video and audio production by d w. i hope the video will tune in whether it's baskets themselves, to don, for goals and india. sometimes sports are more than just the game. the saudi arabia has plants to reach carbon neutrality by 2016. so why is it still investing in oil and windmill supplies of the fossil fuel run out the .