doubts shows the geopolitical reality beyond the board is what makes things to the way they are mapped out, navigating a changing world. now on youtube the this week on the 77 percent street debate can just come to the dealership on this one. so many times we had slugs. what type booklets in mosques? how does that compare the police officer to use a munition? again, it's no more a use when you by the police from using the tools required for the entry. you mean live? i munition you can live, i mean, nation. it is equivalent to telling the police dad the police station. let us protest was it's necessary to shoot text my site in the box. was it proportionate to for that kid in kids like us nights? those are the kinds of questions want the police to answer the hello and

welcome back to the service of epithet street debates. my name is edith kimani, and this week we have back in kenya as capital of ne ruby. now this city has been the stage of ongoing protests initially started a guest, a controversial finance bill, the proposed sweeping increases in taxes. now those protests have tied it to something else, demanding better, accountability as the real corruption from this government. but we're here to ask a protest. the only way for can is to get their voices, hud, and what next would the young people of this movement, who better to answer that question than the actual members of the movement? but i want to start with a general question. you know, the purchase has been going on and i'm seeing ongoing because it's still happening for a while now. but how many people have attended at least one of those protests? let me see by show heads. that is all bucks to people. i'm not surprised the so we to is the protest. what do you find out who keys later you understand why, but check your, let's start with you because you've become almost like the face of this movement to

your face is in a mural. how does that make you few and why did you attend the protest and the 1st place, it is very sorry for me and humbly because i know myself so i feel almost like i do not this of this level of um, attention. but again, i understand that kind of impacts, that's the specific viral means cop chad. so the viral moment you're talking about, obviously the kenyans know what it is, but i'll explain it to a global audience. you stood up to a police officer and you said, you're not taking me anywhere. i'm standing up for my rights. why? why you so angry that day? that's was the 2nd be of the protest and under fuss to be. i had been, i raced it. i wouldn't even use the time i just said, because i was, i'm bushed by pain clips of he says, and they threw me into a vehicle. they harassed me. the beats me and they took me to central police and we were detained among the protest as until 8 pm. so it's a,

i didn't understand why the people in the minds and had to be met with such brutality. and in my opinion, we did not besides to experience what we were experiencing. so i was like, if this moment, if i help is to me i get, i have to be able to speak up for myself. and it just so happens that people have that in the field moment and to be honest, i was kid. that's my and got in frustrations, requested my fia at that point. and that's why i stood up against this police. me, right. so, shakira is uncle superseding of fear mohammed. you are a journalist to communicate to but very much also involved in these protests. so i did ask the question, what sparked the approaches? because i mean canyons have been known to purchase for a while, but not like this, not a big scale. what triggered this? i think people just a good time because for the longest time, can you come to the brink of the police on so many times. but the revolution that's a very strong what it is, a very strong board. it's a lot that i'm using because i know it has come to that being for so many,

many times. i think we can go back all the way to the ninety's when you had the multi party out when we will fight them for multi part to democracy in this country . 2002, when all of us well who to talk and saying your to is a kind of belong way. 2007. unfortunately, what happened followed by the, the, the coordination of government and then print agent, 100 government. there's one uniform flock swapped, and that is $0.42 or just come in and hijacked the movements and make it about themselves. so what's the difference, this thing don't i think the people that they got tired of that, but like every time we come to the bank of general change in this country, pollution is coming. i ducked to move it to make it about themselves, and then went back to square one. so now it's like no more. yeah. and another defining characteristic of this movement as we are calling it is that it's was national. you know, it wasn't just concentrated in the urban centers and your from our allow in some blue and you come all the way from the i know you also participated inputs us the, tell me how the environment was, where you from these issues. i don't know the affecting us on the national level,

but also a back up the account to live with a lot of things i don't know typing in. right. so um, days that level and especially no one to us because we have a huge population of youth, whether not employed, underwater, disregard, that not even given testing, decision making processes. our government is like, i know the toner means, but at the middle of the night they are pulling up some moves. mickey moves and at the end of utah is the give us a very, very due to mental effects of finance. be the tax issue and then on the stuff. and you know, if people have really exhausted all the possible ways to dialogue was the possible ways to find the tenants to talk. yeah. so the kinds of talk anymore, they just have to use a states to speak. ok. so then what is the message now? because at the beginning it was very kia, right? rejected the finance bill. i don't want to speak to some people who participated in the protest. i did that involve binding buildings looting businesses,

because this is also what the young people have been accused of criminality. a spot of the protest have been there from the very 1st day, like the 1st day when direct is good for it was in there beside. it was and cbd up full of as excited to go home because it's the end of the day night time was coming . the streets will generally know going to be safe. people left. but then the meetings are coming to downtown. you're being towards all the people who are here, the lagoons, people's businesses were in fact before kept splitting, social vendor less by the board by their lives in the evening. most of the professors were trying to go home. all of us wanted to go up and we were tired. ok . yeah. now i asked how many people had protested for how many of you was this the 1st time being out on the streets, protesting how many of you were doing this for the 1st time. okay, what did you see? what did you feel? let me hear from some people and so on the street, that kind of like a festival vibe people in the shooting took talks. people are talking to each other,

people giving out what information codes people are selling. gus must, it was peaceful, mostly the 1st jews do where it came. there was no problem. we'll just discuss backups after the thursday after the week after is when. now we could see other people and you could tell who they are. because the post had the placards dressing this come with the handkerchief coupling the site. and so you could tell the difference from the 4th test. let me bring in a child. so we know who you might recognize as a form us books best on for the police, based on your own assessments, an observation, how would you rate the behavior of putting use to was the protest of in those early days that they sometimes they'll be conflict that police find themselves in because as you had the young man took to most of these issues of the political problems between the public and pollutions police officers coming to enforce laws and regulations of midland. a kind of constitution is that'd be tomorrow by brent and i

think with the 7 of the constitution provides that you can demonstrate to you can assemble, you can pick it to kind of present petitions to authorities, piece in place. and then that is the best way. so we've had, we had those kind of, uh, those kind of products. but you kind of yeah, the 1st day it you said was so beautiful. but you can see as it progressed, wait, wait till you check your racing. it wasn't like i said i was, i stayed on this past tuesday or there protest throughout over 200 people in central police. i learned from what i witnessed and what i experienced. there was no sadness from the wide. cool. i did not mean fan is too high, but i mean who is, who is the fan is to be the same. i've said this situation was that'd be fair compared to the preceding base. but before we continue, i just wanted to canary to hear because who did the police respond and serve? do they consider us 1st or the politicians? the police can see does the nation every one of you?

because for example, she's a business woman. if you brick into hardship and you still everything and she has a loan and basically with no insurance, that will pay these. what happens to her? that's why we say, if the police is the devil, let them be mended, but don't go breaking into people's properties. so from where i seats, i don't want to defend anybody, but what i'm saying is kind of, we follow the law. okay, let me hear from some people here because i'm seeing the house coming up. i hope you came here to hop on on the screen. being on his thoughts of the default position of the police of this country. since independence has told us that has always been filings. what is what is known can is 15, and one is pretending to heights. nope. do you think that the aisles definitely most of the forests. some of the people who came out during the support is that kids well for middle class families privilege funding these well, funding is from good neighborhoods. this is the 1st time protesting this before the police brutality for them. it's things they see on

t v or they need them to peoples. but this time on the face that head on as executive from the fuss. be sure to tell you this. if you go to these low income for these neighborhoods, this informal settlements, the my thought is to keep, does, this is the data if you had it. so you start getting that data to entities, things. that's the fist every single day. but those funds killed without any due process. yeah. so is that being honest off of the police of this country, they've never been a force for good. okay, let me speak to a do it because it's just joined us from hockey, africa, which is the right scoop. and you've heard what the former police books best and has said, what are your results to respond to? goodness is that day we would have already under discussion because i'm just from, you know, thinking we already know. well, we tried to trace information that was been given by police and check if, if activities are really, we have good individuals that walk in by bullets. but the police have registered them the majority as victims of a, you know, as it is, is it as

a van of accidents yet? when you go to the east side, you find graduates, we've individuals lector, individuals that walk into the in the last product in them in a good and good luck. but the point is i just had them as individuals that had to put accidents into john. so we need to be honest, i think from where we, i think we, we need to ask what kind of be some of that going to be looked emission. has that you need to put in place because as, as we speak now, i pod looked have the kids to bite. and as we're speaking out also, we can a tab, the police, investigating the philip with this accused of of give me knowledge. okay. let me give me so you know, a chance to, to respond and by the way, let's just be clear. he is no longer a police officer, is here, out of got to seek it, right? but when you hear people speaking like this about police officers, surely you must agree, but there's something wrong fundamental. what, what i can tell you from my experience that nobody has the right to have another, including a policeman. and that is why they have many cases where police officers have been

charged that being jailed because one thing i want to tell you is we will never fail to have the policeman. and even then, what do you not a life where they would be no policeman, you would find people fighting and killing one another. if i don't meet that some policeman and make mistakes, i would be the if you don't admit and that this done was specials, must be peaceful and we must be and you will also be, oh okay, let me, let me, let me, let me bring it because for the interest of time, we have somebody here from the law society of kenya, and they feel like post protests, everybody is a little bit of a lawyer. so we're talking about provisions. what does the law say about peaceful protests and what the police on the right? because we saw images of people holding just the flag, and yet they're being sprayed with what's a kind of the unfortunate thing that we have weakness in this country, is that the keep up with treated by the states and obviously of these because we saw a quote in modeling the issue, i know that

a directing that the police officers should know to use the reporting that, you know, to use foss with, you know, see, was what the economy. and it was created directed to the inspector general of police to ensure that they probably, that combined the following. the there was a product has failed and that is in the video cities in the record, which is the police wait until the validation of that order. the 1st time, the progress part of that is on the 18th of june of the central police station. as low as we just pointed to, at least as close to provide legal supports to some of the people with united states. because of this for products. when the book is that i have the police met, eh, what do i mean by the police brutality, useful flat garcia to do advocates and to seek legal and provide google council to these the protest us. so you can see the non cooperation by the state agencies to provide it to comply with the low comply with the low low income to according to both the, the rights to the legal representation that it's 2 se console that i spoke to the out left eaves i'm going to give me, so we're not just respond to that,

and then it wants us to move away from the issue of felicia, when you buy a of the police from using the tools required for the treat. you mean like munition? it went live. i mean, nation, yes, i don't want to lie. i want to be very honest. yes. even live i munition is totally of, of is a tool of trade for the police. we have had cases of terrorism here, people coming with the bombs and fire. and so what i'm saying is that when it comes to the, i guess the court trying to stop the police from having to using t i guys what are using but on what when using his get, it is misplaced in the sense that it is equivalent to telling the police the police station, let us protest. there's a difference between peaceful assembly and play with the assembly. when do become riotous, when 12 or more people assembled within it, does that mean that he intends to disrupt overbooked to costco? so they become ready for testing. i'm not sure. let me, let me let,

let me give you, let me give the, i'm trying to have it. okay. but i know be allowing me, i love you. i love it. also to give other people to the purpose of protesting is to disrupt because otherwise would its needs to protest. and if we do not course, a disruption of normal day to day activities, then the message doesn't go out. we had slugs. what of buttons and mosques? how does that's a, a equates to how your team, how does that compare the police officer to use a munition? goodness, no more a use. and then my last going just from the way he's speaking the fact that he's started as a police officer and where he is right now, it shows that to be something fundamentally a role for them, how policemen actually ins and how they are put into a force which is something we also have to deal with as a country. okay. do you guys agree? okay. okay. so what tell you that you took out the 2 of you?

i was just okay. talk to me. talk to me. yes. uh why is that the acting from wherever uh, the muscles are saying that to the mind, to political equitability, because we think that the police has these to be independent. and we also think back to the mind, the image, the police, the relationship between the police of the month, this is just, we had just extreme in terms of question. and that's why the young people are saying that on the context of the kind of situation there is need for the president, the lives in the mall. and for the people i don't to present the lives in most of the young people. and the empty logs would that you should see the in the open, they don't have to have a discussion board that would the last thing that didn't corruption did what was political ability, you know, dealing with the issue issues of trust. but is it so this is, this is out of the public domain as to the bottom line is we expect the president to just do what the people, what and when we see them through those issues. we go knocking a bunch of go straight back. i told them to present that i've been like all the

time and all the time. so great, let me get some more responses. the police are governed by knocked the national police on this. ok. and then if there's a provision that guides police officers, when the load will, how they're allowed to use firearms, was it necessary to shoot fixed my site in the block? was it proportionate to for that kid in good like last night? those are the kinds of questions you want, the police to answer. okay, so i just want us to move away from the issue of police because this is not a debate about police officers. it's about the protest, right? the president has already made some concessions, fired nearly his entire cabinet, has now re appointed. some people are to still be made to them. 6 of whom had been fired. have now been nominated. how do you feel about that? do you feel like the president is listening to the demands of the youth? honestly, i don't think he is. because if you see that a shuffle, it's like he just switched positions. you know, it's like this person was here. come stay here. you go. stay here. just just to

show people it's like is great that'll just people's mind. like i'm, i've done something. but for me as a business person, let me tell you this port has affected me personally individually because on that tuesday the 1st shops for pretty good was for the good i'll was quick, much was looked at, was for shops, one new ted in the police. there was no one to show up. we made called realistic police to show these just them come according to is just a well, just a few meters away. but the one, not the end, as you, as, as we still really see that the police are supposed to protect us. so when you hear the young people are getting ready to go back on the streets again, this following week, and perhaps for many more weeks to come, my question becomes how sustainable is it? i mean, will people be on the streets for a year or 2 years? when does it end and what are the other options? sometimes you have with that with what next, what he's going to happen instead of why and to be playing the stage because they

have been very clear, very clear on what they want, which is accountability. the mind that government, that those parcels, we know wellbeing involving what options condos, for instance. uh, we saw that the appointment that they don't meet, they propose the munition list still some of the members of the company such as and some of them, we know them to be what we see the as as condos. so the apostles that do not meet the, the, the sheep and integrity test the as should provided. and of course, did you know, it's up to 6. so how long the part is that going to take that depends on how fast of the state is really listen. ok, the concerns of the game. okay. uh so what are the real issues? let's come back to that. i'd like to go to the main tagline of what's this james? the movement has been, which is through to him. i school. and it's, it's evidence that when we say route to him, i school, we don't specifically refer to roots so much of the anti government that he's the backing him up. they've been given a chance. time and time again,

cause this up with you to chance of had about since i was that you could go. so i think it's just time we it's like it because tracking everything and start afresh for my new foundation. let me hear from one more person and then we get some solutions, right? there's a social construct that has been reached and can use of understood that yes, there's the government and there's the government. the government gets the legitimacy from the consent of the government. when you saw people in studying parliament about today on the 25th of june, that was people think this is an attempt to government and we don't recognize them that's. that's the frosting. that's a dependence. i've understood that it, let me walk down to the other thing i would say is how do is points for dialogue. but how do dialogue with someone who is going since you is that 80? so the, the president who meets 11 was that you live in company. it's such a dance among those people was the meanest of going to do. this is a month and i said this was all true of contradiction. who was blood on his hands? this is someone who over so the mother and the, the gunning, don't you know,

send on civilians on that or like adults like animals. so that's the false. most of the other persons was retained was the cs of defense. this is a positive unconstitutionally deployed. the media type is what you did just mid. it looks so extension to the company. so now when brutal brings bucks, lots of people to the company, that's what he's doing. and speaking with the games with the people who died in the, in the past one month. so you're comfortable with such a possible cuz he has no between no so no dialogue is what you're saying, right? and you're saying to me that so long as the core issues and not addressed, people will continue to go back in the streets. so what are the solutions? i'm going to plead with a youth. we need a saw, you show on how this protest are going to go on from no chance for if they're going to last longer. personally, my children go to school in that will be, i walk in that will be that means if this protest of going to be happening every tuesday, every 5 days in such a days, that means my children and will go to school. i was no good to walk and i am a single mother of 3 children kindly as

a human being. i wish i hope that this protest can take a big time to change this strategy. yes, kindly. so when you support the movement, you don't want lots of business, you don't want the loss of life. okay. understood? i, i do understand where you, i try to understand where you're coming from. but uh, we are trying to talk with a problem. and as use, we feel the only only a venue we have left is protesting. why don't fit business people like you, our mazda, as a part of our grandparents try and come with an impala of voice to what's the problem? because we are not the program. it is the government which is a problem. okay? yes. so they m p 5 so that we can actually talk with the actual problem. all right, let me get some more points. my solution is simply a band people you,

i didn't my unit us 70 percent of the population of this country. stop, tribal is of the, excuse me, you know, the problem is failing to listen. don't say you out a tribal least. i say we have been practising tribalism you identify mission should stop. i want to see the next elections. i want to see an election where you are going to elect people based on, on or not based on the policies that they want to send to you. so that when i go to maybe june, where you come from, let us not be able to guess that in this region, if so on. so he's given a ticket, then he gets it because at the end of the day, what do we help you to change systems? is the democratic space you have in voting okay? because got in place. that's a fair point. i'd like to give this gentleman a chance he hasn't spoken. i think he'd also trickles down to the cfo's and we,

as individuals on how we can extensively conduct the civic education before the next elections. because you'll realize that some of us as condense, we have protesting, but we don't even know the rules of or govern us. oh mc is, i've seen it says so the cycle continues. it's a, it's another she'll cycle, they'll come in the means to symbolize as they need and we'll be back in the street show doing the same thing. so we need to fix this thing. and it starts with we as individuals and also the government donates back because i don't see why the government funds see we can control for them to teach us how to vote and not teach us why we shouldn't be working in the 1st place. all right, i like that point. so getting formed, make sure that you know what you're doing before you get to the ballot. and finally, i'd like to hear from you more. let's close this with you. we're still gonna talk to about debate until the next election. that's testable, that's what it takes of the bundle, what you on site and always politics of oversight, of,

of civilians. we're going to take a civic duty very seriously from now. and that's something that you've seen already the other day on to to we had to different similar thing, a street spaces on wednesday. well, one group was teaching people about the bills that are being tabled in parliament and the other group of stitching people. if a group of him, lawyers were teaching people about the country, but the, the constitution and breaking it's don't in of it accessible to me. so that's from the investigating. we're still going to sustain this. we're still going to read teaching a point to they're going to make life very uncomfortable for politicians and the non violent fee. okay, let me just clarify it right now for us to continue with the discuss that we discussed, but they will continue. all right, so we have to rock that because as of the times, but i did ask a question, you know what next? and i think the answer has been very clear here that even if it's not on the streets, it's going to be somewhere online or perhaps that's what debates like this. right? so i thank you all for participating. i did read somewhere that these protests will not so much on side government,

but pro good governance. and i think this debate has clearly illustrated that. thank you a for watching the the,

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