so 20 full presence less detention in russia. germany, bella russo in the united states amongst others. and they landed in the trackage capital. after various checks on health and identities and went all sides were satisfied, but not a form of presence got on board new plains and flew off to freedom. so what did it cost to do? the steel? i'm feel get highly value, and this is the day. the deal with this possible performers and french french foldable cartridge shop can try to paper was not an easy decision to the pulled a convicted murderer who had only served a few years in prison today was very good and we're going to build on it drawing inspiration and can continue courage from it for all of those who were held hostage

to mr. c. one is twice as skilled as the 2nd one is by now i'm very excited to hear that he's being returned. thankfully we returned it's wonderful. also on the day donald trump questions, his opponents of racial identity and com a lot higher is condemns. the question is a return to divisive politics. i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black. and now she wants to be known as black. so i don't know, is she indian or she flat? she has the divisiveness and the disrespect. and let me just say the american people deserve better to the american people deserve better. welcome to the day, well, bringing them home the triumphant words of us president joe biden,

today after successfully pulling off a massive prison to swap with russia. this was a complex deal that involved secret negotiations in several countries, including jeremy, each of who admitted that the exchange required some tough decisions of this voltage released by russia's f. s p security agency. so it's something with a free presence being escorted onto whitening planes that include the high profile american dean chinese. the wife on a says there was no direct engagement with russian president vladimir, who is it so what do we know about the size and scale of this deal? well, this was the largest business well in the post soviet era, and it took place into okay, the us, russia and others exchange 24 prisoners and 2 children. 10 people have been moved to russia for 16 west and the russian nationals, perhaps the most well known of them is wall street journal report to evan co

scrimmage. he was detained in russian on spying charges in march of last year. german national rico k who was sentenced to death in bella rooms on terrorism charges is also among those freed honestly is that the chrisy cough, a russian who was convicted of the 2019 murder of a former chechen militant in button. there was speaking about the exchange us president joe biden paid particular tribute to jem anita off shots, particularly on a great sense of gratitude to the chest. the missouri making a may. it required me to get some significant concessions. germany originally concluded they could not do because the person question, but everybody stepped up post up tops of the stepped of turkey stepped out. and it

matters that relationships really does want to have a chance to the life shelves that his government have found it very difficult to arrive at the decision to release vadim crossteck off he moved to people was not an easy decision to the pulled a convicted murderer who had only served a few years in prison after he was sentenced to a life to we had to way out, enforcing that sentence with the dangers posed to the freedom. and in some cases the lives of those on justly and present in russia. and also the political prisoners helps the and that's why i wrote the cation to protect german citizens, was important to us. and also, i was told the diner until you towards the united states. in west. well, let's pick up that difficult decision we've done, you know, gilbert series assistant professor of political science at northwestern university . a welcome to d. w. for the prostate gulf,

they russian assassin released from a gym and present it, killed a chat to him by then under orders from moscow. german germany absolutely did not want to let him go back to russia. so how do you think present bite and change chancellor shots his mind to well, i think this is just an example of how extremely difficult these decisions are. how complicated and frankly unfair. these deals are. but at the end of the day, leaders in the united states and in germany decided that it was worth, make king not painful, difficult decision to secure the freedom of prisoners who would be held unjustly in russia in terms of what divided administration did i. i'm under the impression that the us government was working at the highest levels behind the scenes for months, if not years, to put this kind of deal together. and at both calling on the strong,

allied to the united states, particularly calling on germany and the strength of that alliance, but also making sure that there were prisoners released as part of this deal. it would be important to germany as well. and so that's getting back at german citizens and making sure that russian dissidents were released as part of this deal . what do we make of, of, of the numbers isn't wrong to, to, to look at the numbers in this and 10 people sent back to, to russia for 16, west and, and russian nationals coming this way. so when i look at these deals, i don't actually equate, you know, the numbers and think of that as a way to calculate whether or not i think is a good deal or a fair deal or, or even an interesting deal. and the leaders who are engaged in this diplomacy are trying to do whatever it is they can to get the best deal they can to bring their

citizens home it's, it's really the art of the possible. and so the, the thing that really stands out to me about the numbers of today's deal is just the sheer size of, of this deal. in recent years, the united states and russia have engage in one for one prisoners. wow. and such as the 24 people being exchanged as part of this deal from so 7 different countries investigation, huge amounts of important nation and shows, but sometimes to get a deal done, you have to put more on the table. and i'm also reading the signs, whether they're in russia and by the roots for people who knew how to read them. that something was going to happen. there were stories in recent days and that suggested that this might be coming coming down the pike in the next couple of days. so 1st, there were people who were watching the b travel trajectory of airplanes that had

been used in hostage deals and prisoners walks before and having unusual flight patterns. and so they were watching the flight patterns of these different planes. a lawyer see represented some of these prisoners and disciplines said that they were unable to reach their claim in recent days, which could portend, you know, really ghastly news or could be because those prisoners were being relocated in anticipation of the deal. so there were small leaks and stories in a couple of days leading up to today that this might have been coming in possible. and what was turkey's role in this so turkey, it has served as a really valuable and very interesting 3rd party mediator in the actual swat itself . so when these present or a changes take place that they have to take place is a somewhat neutral 3rd party territory, where airplanes from both countries can safely land and can feel comfortable

allowing the prisoners to cross the term so that they have these kind of simultaneous exchanges of the prisoners from one country to another. so turkey is one of the rare countries that has working relations with both the united states and with russia and is able to serve as the staging ground for that slot. good, talking to you. thank you for talking us through that says so very danielle gilbert from northwestern university. thank you for having me. with joshua yeah, for as a john list and friend of evan gascon rich from his that time in moscow. welcome to the w. how did you find out the news of his release? like a lot of friends and colleagues, we were forensically following the news, not just today, but for the past couple days. as murmur, as of a possible exchange, really started to take hold, both in russian media, western media,

germany. i'm here in berlin, american media. so everyone was scrolling frantically, myself included checking social media. so looking for confirmation of the, of the trade checking flank maps of various planes we thought might be included. and it wasn't until we saw these pictures that you're showing. now, of evan and others actually walking the turmack in turkey. that we all collectively re, is it a deep sign, a relief? the moment when we have been waiting for a 190 days for the duration of evans detention finally happens. and when someone is, is effectively taken as a political, a prisoner. i'm governments always say that trying to sort things out in the quietly in the background and often they don't like it when friends and family and the national newspapers start shouting at about said we getting those sorts of assurances from washington. yes, 2nd hand i,

i certainly wasn't involved in any direct way the negotiations were over and the binding ministration wasn't including me or, or others in those negotiations. i think for good reason and given them difficulty and sensitivity of the deal that we saw. and finally, a merge, but, but evans parents and it wasn't me for any, or certainly kept in the loop. and the wall street journal was lobbying quite heavily, frequently, alternately, effectively for athens, a reason for the binding ministration. now there's to work tirelessly on evans, but hassle there certainly was the feeling that there was a huge have paradis both in government and outside of government. that was keeping evans case a priority. the responsibility of friends and colleagues, other journalists like myself, as we saw it, was to keep attention on evan, to have the public, remember evidence to have that hopefully create a kind of pressure and incentive calculus for various governments to,

to work on athens k. so, so we really thought of ourselves as using the channels and means that we know best from our own work that is, you know, working the media going on shows like this one and keeping evans name out in the press. so his case was forgotten and that put some, some healthy pressure on those in government to keep working the case. okay, so you've been, i'm in contact with his uh, with his family and have you had any contact with athens since he was arrested last year? i yes, one remarkable feature of his imprisonment, despite being held in this maximum security prison in moscow, the 4th of a known as the kind of house prison of the f s. b, the russian security agency. that is a successor to the k g b. i look forward to about a very difficult, like a lot of psychologically place to be held high sense and feeling of isolation. nonetheless, there are letters that go pull forward to that myself. other friends,

supporters of evans could write and letters. i haven't could right hand written replies, you'd get a scan of a hand written letter sent back to you. but, but this worked and in this way we were able, i was able to keep up with that and tell him a bit about my life. what was happening with me here a bit about his life, his routine, how he passed his days, what was on his mind. and of course, he wasn't able to say everything. we couldn't discuss the case. there was lots that wasn't in those letters. but at the same time, there actually was a remarkable amount in those letters and, and i feel like i and other friends and supporters. i haven't got a sense for what he was go or even as we couldn't really imagine it. but nonetheless, we had evans words to help us picture it. okay, so he and others. i fortunately i sung for late coming. how do you think once he's over there? so i don't know. obviously, i don't know what the terms of the deal, but i wonder what your thoughts are on working in russia from this point as

well. evans arrest certainly changed the calculus overnight. a year and a half ago when he was arrested about what the risk calculus was or what the risk perceived re, or real honest for western journalists working in russia and, and i don't think there's going back to the way things were rushed for. um, that's both because of the reality in russia, the nature of the war time censorship laws that are on the books in russia and the president of them is never going away. and i think that's for the near future as long as per our that's a new environment for reporting from inside russian. good. talking to you. thanks so much for joining us at joshua. yeah. for doing this to friend of ethan cask. image was your us presidential rice with donald trump. slight just attempt to line to blow on his democratic arrival. come

a lot. higher is a pass to back 5. the republican presidential candidate was appearing at the annual conference of the association of black journalist in chicago. i went told me attack about harris, his identity on qualifications. i've known her a long time in direct way, not directly very much. and she was always of indian heritage, and she was only promoting indian heritage. i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black and now she wants to be known as black. so i don't know, is she indian or she black is always the black irish by respect either one, but she obviously doesn't because she was indian all the way. and then all of a sudden she made it turn into when she became a black, just to be clear, is there somebody should look into that too? and this is color how rich responded. donald trump spoke at the annual meeting of the national association of black turn list and it was the same old show

that the under the last b a is an associate professor at emory university's department of political science research specialism include african american politics and political participation. she joins us from washington. welcome back to dw, and let's start with the truthful otherwise of the former president statement. she was always of indian heritage, and she was only promote an indian heritage. how true is that? no, it's not true at all. come a harris's is both to make an american in indian american. she's always been proud of both heritages. and if we look at her, her personal background where she grew up, where she went to college and some of her extra curricular activities, it clearly indicates essentially identifies with an as proud of her black heritage . so the sounds like an odd line to deliver, to

a room full of black generally what, what do you think the former president was thinking? i'm still trying to parse that out myself. and there are some people who are arguing that his audience was not the black people who were in the room with them. but let's assume that they were, i think what he was trying to suggest is that black voters loyalties for complet harris out of a sense of racial solidarity may be misplaced because the feeling may not be mutual . i mean, i think the problem is there's a lot about her identity as a howard graduate. as a member of the applicant, the offices were incorporated that wouldn't suggest that she's very comfortable expressing her african and her black heritage. so it was really, really weird for him to say that and it seems as though president trump didn't actually would think through the comment or the mirror. and then also didn't think about how it would be perceived in that particular context. to make that type of

a false and outlay of the statement to the african americans, even in the context of a really intense and aggressive interchange with black reporters, would be perceived as actually being especially offensive. okay, so you're the only thing that the space that these comments then what, what possible the new trump campaign that target think of coming on. how is this was just a trump speaking off the cuff? you know, i don't, i think he, i think he was doing more than speaking off the car. um we know that in the, in the past week and a half the trump campaign has been trying to figure out how to change their strategy to go. busy after a new opponent and when it comes to issues of race and gender, both donald trump genie vance and the story gets, have been loving a lot of different attack lines basically to try to figure out what's going to lead it'd be most effective. i think that this was just another evidence of the trump campaign, throwing something on the wall to see what sticks this one just like do land in

a very spectacular way. and it was, it didn't land in such a spectacular way that it could have been foreseen as being a bad strategic move to make. right. so just focus are some of the lines that they have been throwing up the wall. i mean, there have been a lot of smears that have been levied against vice president harris in the last week. so whether it's jd events doubling down on the child's cat lady comments. so they were comments he made a long time ago where he had implicated vice president harris, but he hasn't apologized for them since they've become a campaign issue in the past week. and he still wants to imply that democrats are, are anti family by using sometimes the lack of child bearing as a, of, as evidence of sort of a lack of the for children and children's issues and family issues. we can talk about the republicans who, you know, were deriding vice president harris as a, b, e. i candidate such to the point that there are other republicans, we've actually tried to get them to stop saying that implying that she somehow on

qualified for office, we just have other things that president trump said in that interview at an a b j where he described her as dumb as a rock where he brought up the fact that she failed the bar exam the 1st time she took it over 30 years ago. she clearly has passed it. that's because the practice last, you know, for decades after that. and then you could talk about some of the rumors or the murmurings about her prior romantic relationship with former san francisco mayor willie brown and the implications that she slipped her weight to the top. we could talk about ged meant, right, you know, suggesting okay, but i'm guessing about a lot of stuff or bed. so. yeah. so that, that's a lot of stuff. i mean, like, as a lot of was a that said the vice presidents hasn't been shy about the own campaigning. will play a clip from one of her rallies and then come back to you, us and the find somebody or something just be plain weird. the,

well, the you will reconsider to meet me on the debate, say the because as the saying good, if you got something to say the glasby from emory university tell us about the high risk compounds attack lines. so it adds the idea that a trump and vans are seeing weird things seems to be something that they think is resonating with them or credit motors, not only thing vice president harris use that line. we've seen some of her sarah

gets, especially some of the leading candidates for vice president, also pick up on the year trip. and i think they're also trying to sort of play into the idea that this a, you know, in keeping with the wrong everything at the wall to see what 6 paradigms that have grown things out there that are contradictory. but you can be a better child was cat lady, and be a welfare queen, or does bell at the same time. they don't go together. and you know, just the idea that she is willing to challenge donald trump, to a debate and actually use the idea of say things to my face. kind of remind some people of, of what school yards bites the i used to look like back in the day, but she is a standing up to and she's making clear that she is responding to these attacks and as direct away as possible. or how big of backlash has that be? again, stay the full, the president's comments questioning. com, a harris's, a race and how they real or just politically motivated outrage as well. i mean, i think it's gonna remains to be seen how viral these comments were,

but you know, i'll use a personal example. my mother heard about this and called me, she probably never really thought that much about any b j. though i have been to an a b j conferences, and i know she's never watched one of their interviews before. so the idea that there might be a certain variety to this, i think, is what makes this dangerous. there's some argue that, you know, trump did this and was, you know, intentionally provocative because he wanted to put himself back at the top of the news cycle. but i think it becomes a question of whether or not this was a bridge too far. and whether different audiences are going to see this and react negatively to what they saw is basically going to be determined by anything that he said yesterday. but i think the question is, do waiver and voters do those a small sliver of, of undecided voters in the united states see this and then determine that he's to mean or doesn't have the temperament to be re elected president of the united states. i think that that's going to be a real question. we should see that kind of come out in some survey data in the

next couple of weeks. but i will say is that especially an african american communities where there may have been some wavering when joe biden was the nominee . this is the type of thing that could reinforce support for vice president harris . and it's the type of evidence that i'm sure people are going to be using at back yard barbecues and pull parties, and conversations and parties over the next couple of months as exhibit a of why you can't believe that donald trump, it turned to the page on race relations and plans on being kind, blur kinder and more gentle. and all that car into is that car into poland on the, to a would be presidents. we 5 and after the race and memory of the assassination attempt against donald trump fading or yeah, i mean, so we can look at um, some new pulling that come out in uh, the last few days. and so, uh, what we see is that uh, the race is a statistical tie even more so than it was under joe biden. so uh, you know, uh donald trump was leading uh, uh, joe biden,

by larger margins sometimes outside of the statistical margin of error. which meant that he would be statistically ahead of the most recent pulls that i have seen. so just that com, what harris is more clearly when innocence is going margin of error and would only be, you know, a couple of points behind donald trump into what that suggest is that this is anybody's race. okay, thank you for talking us through that clear as ever dr. underclass be from emory university. thanks so much. thank you to and that's the lowest cost on social media at cdw and use latest headlines on dw, don't coma on the d. w. a good the,

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but nobody really knows the truth. so how to the millions of.