[000:00:00;00] the happiness of such a war, because i still do not see the happiness of peace even in the most optimistic perspective, and i know that there will still be a way out of the low-level war, because the putin regime is not eternal, it will be absolutely incomprehensible to the russians, why keep it all in this form , when something else can be captured there, their aggression can be channeled on weaker, opponents and enemies, that is, it can be anything , but again for a low- intensity war. you understand, you need a strong army, you need everything that the general talks about zaluzhnyi, it is necessary that the russians are afraid of losing what they are occupying, it is necessary, even if they are, we will occupy everything, if this happens in some conceivable prospect, so that the russians are afraid to cross our border, that they are afraid exclusively there on borders for some border regions, that is, but you understand that these

options should be considered as options in development, and we are always considering options, as options that something ends, so we reached the state border, and that's it, russians say oh god, what, that's it, we went home, what , or we left stopped at some contact line at a stalemate, and that's it, russian woman, well, a stalemate, we can't break through, oh, we prayed, sorry, please , in what general. the meaning of general zalozhny's article, he talks about military decisions, uh, in principle, we discuss military decisions all the time, war does not end with military decisions, the armed forces of any country can only create the preconditions for a political decision, the armed forces can resort to an apolitical solution only in

one single case. in the case of genocide, if the armed forces of a country destroy the entire population of the captured country, they do not need any political solution, russians, and what about you, i am just telling you the pages of russian history, here putin tells, and i tell when ivan grozny, the favorite of the russian people and so on, took the kazan and astrakhan khanates, and the kazan and astrakhan khanates were practically cut off. urban population, kazan, which, by the way, was then already a protectorate of russia, and in principle accepted all these political schemes that are being offered to us now, it was destroyed, the entire muslim population was evicted from the city, as well as the insured, and the tatar population of the kazan astrakhan khanate, as well as all the adjacent territories, for many centuries it was forbidden to settle in cities, and now they began to recover in kazansk, on the territory

of the modern republic of tatarstan, only there to live in cities, etc., in the astrakhan khanate, in the current astrakhan oblast the russian federation, they never recovered, 10% of the tatar population, where there were 100, uh, and there is no need for any political solution, as you understand, there are no people, there are no problems. another great example of how no political solution is needed is the annexation of crimea, i mean, not this one, but katerynynska, because the annexation of crimea, at the time of the annexation of crimea in crimea. lived 90% of the tatar population, the crimean tatar population, due to the efforts of the russian government, this number was reduced there to 20-25%, which then they turned into 10, there is also no need to sign any decisions with anyone, there is no one to sign with, just everyone is expelled, and such examples, there are many such examples, we

look at the southern caucasus, well, there, the same, no people were simply driven away by the vauls , they created guard fortresses there, there is a formidable makhachkala, these are not the cities of the south caucasian peoples, these are russian fortresses in order to shoot at the inhabitants of the auls who come close to some trading cities, well, there is the whole story, everything is very simple, if the russians cannot destroy ukrainians, they always tried , and the holodomor is an excellent example of the fact that they... also always understood that if we do not agree with the ukrainians, they must be gone, and we cannot destroy the russians, because we are not fighting at all their territory, in general, we live in the 21st century, fortunately no one is destroying anyone anymore, although the russians are trying, uh, hmm, one way or another, then in any case we will have to think about a political solution if russia is not ready for this political decision, so this political decision must be made the west, well, if the west is not ready for this

political decision, then. instead of a political solution, there will be constant permanent military operations on this territory and maybe on some others, as long as these military operations can continue, as long as necessary, as long as... the warring parties have enough manpower, enough for five years, five years, for 10, 10, by 15, 20, we will finish sooner than the russians , well, so when we finish, then i will not, no political decisions will be needed, then russia will be here, you are right, so what do we need, well, now our viewers will say that the west is draining us, no, it means that we need it not to be like that, uh, at the moment, while we are not finished yet, while tens of millions of people live here, we need to demand a political decision. ukrainians in their power or in our power to the west in our power from the west and ukrainians from the west. ugh , we must clearly say that we have two options for a political solution, the first option,

the european one, when we become part of nato, we are talking about european integration there, but it now has a three-tiered meaning, of course everyone really wants to defeat corruption and everything else, i understand all this very well, there will be no ukrainians, there will be no corruption, in order for corruption to exist, you also need... for someone to steal, someone must be alive , you see, they don't steal corpses in a refrigerator, they just freeze there, so that's what we need, and then we will overcome corruption, when we will be a peaceful state that will go to the european union and we will not get anywhere like this, because there will be nowhere to go more, so the main thing is an invitation to nato, it is a guarantee of security from nato parties, which in principle will say to russia, something, let there be a passive situation somewhere, somewhere something has frozen, but then you... what the hell, it means to freeze so that it can only be from our side, but the president of ukraine says that the borders of 1991, it's great, if we succeed, it will be very good, the president is absolutely right , he's right, well, we won't understand when, if it doesn't work, we're reality, it

comes to any house , so far, why do we have to say now that it is not so, the president speaks with absolutely correct statesmanship position, the border of 1991, it is necessary that this statesmanship position be supported by reality, firstly, secondly, there is another option, not european, middle eastern, which consists in the fact that the army of israel should be stronger by such and such a number of times than the armies of neighboring countries, well, we are not considering the issue of whether some hamas or some hezbollah will defeat israel, we are considering the issue of a high price for such a victory, not only from the point of view of the army, the defense of israel, but from the point of view of the civilian population, the gas sector and if hezbollah will join lebanon in this struggle, if a war suddenly starts in the north of israel, lebanon will simply disappear from the political map, well, there will be something there, but lebanon will not exist, and all those in lebanon, by the way, understand perfectly well, so they do not want hezbollah to abandon them

in this furnace, there is nothing good in this, but israel will not disappear from this, israel will not disappear if lebanon disappears, we simply do not want lebanon to disappear and we do not want the civilian population to suffer, gases, but the balance is such, strong the army of israel can repulse the enemies, and one way or another, the enemies are forced to find a peaceful way of coexistence with israel, coexistence, not friendship, friendship between russians and ukrainians will never happen, so we need such an option, such an army, in human terms our army is well trained, but technologically we are dependent on our paraty , they have to equip us technologically, and at the same time it does not matter much how many people live here, lesci, because there are fewer people living in... there are 8 million, or 10 million jews, yes, who serve in the army, because arabic the population isn't even there, it's 2 million there, and

how many people are there in the arab world? hundreds of millions, well, first of all, the world is divided, the russian world is united, it's worse, but in any case the fact remains, israel has always repelled enemy attacks and it is necessary that ukraine, if... it is not taken in nato, if the fear of a nuclear war with russia is so great, then it is necessary to at least arm the ukrainian army so that the russian army does not have the idea of ​​the possibility of aggression, simply put, the ukrainian army must be technologically stronger, and we are talking about that by the way we are not talking from the 22nd year, but from 2014, do you remember when oleksandr turchynov, the secretary of the national security and defense council of ukraine, said that without missile armies, we would be doomed to a new attack by russia, and that and where are the missile armies, where are our missiles? as they say, we could do everything, but then we couldn’t stop the road, and this by the way, the meme does not refer to volodymyr

zelenskyi alone, we refer to ukrainian society, which all the time wanted to live in a rich, successful, democratic country, such a country will not exist during the lifetime of the current generation of ukrainians, it will not be rich, it will not be prosperous and it may not be successful , and i really hope that it will be democratic, although i also have certain doubts about the extent to which it will be able to do this afford, but... it can be a country that will focus all its efforts on military resistance, and as a result, only people will remain in this country who will be ready to dedicate their lives, the lives of their families, the lives of their children, to the idea of ​​preserving ukraine , before the possibility of a russian takeover, to live here as in a fortress, poorer than those ukrainians who will leave here, ugh, but i apologize, i still believe that i have a full moral right to say this from this simple

point of view, that the jews of israel, i do not live in israel, in israel, people have always lived worse than in the united states and in european countries, worse and much less safe, as you can see, if you are an american jew, you live well, until a certain point, jews who lived in ukraine also lived safer, maybe not richer, but safer than ours compatriots in yevreisk. state, i remember very well how my palestinian classmate, ugh, in the university, told me, you will never go to israel, because you love life very much, good wording, i am even ready to take it to my account, i don't know there, that i love life or not life, or something, i have other priorities, but the people who went to live in israel, they dedicated their lives, their lives, their families, their lives, their children, to the protection of the jewish state and the readiness to give for this state life at any critical moment will be like that

life... new generations of ukrainians, there will be no others, those who want a different life should pack their bags, after the war ends, and live peacefully in some safer world, build ukrainian towns there, go to concerts, folk songs, cries, come here with a suitcase of gifts for relatives, and that's all, i even think that some of these people may, like the israelis, when the next tour starts, they will pack a suitcase and come come here, as it was, by the way in february 2022, defend this country, hide and more never return to your cozy ukrainian towns in the united states and european countries, but it will be like this, it will not be otherwise, if there is a middle eastern option, and you and i talked about the national option, the national option says that this will be the last war, it will end, we will simply be a part of the civilized world , russia will fight on... on other grounds , we will be in the audience box looking at it,

sympathizing with the foreign civilian population, arguing that the unfortunate children live under bombings in bomb shelters, do not have medicines, products of normal life, to come to this warring state, to be volunteers there, to help them, as europeans help us, and everyone will say, oh, thank you very much, you came from ukraine, and we will say, oh, you know, our parents, they also experienced this, you know, when i was a little girl. i sat in a bomb shelter, there were terrible rockets, i remember it, i have such a childhood trauma, i even then went to a psychologist for three months, and now i came to you, to some country there, let's not say country x, so as not to to scare people to help you, because everyone helped us then, people from europe came , good people, helped us with weapons and food and money, and we ukrainians also really, really want to help you, this can be the way it is, our life, the light life, this is the life of people who will live all the time, contemplating the free, but will also be their direct participants, such an option is also not excluded,

well, why not, i say, but you have to choose a political solution, the general is diligent for president biden, for president macron, for for federal chancellor scholz, for ursula fonderlajen, for all western leaders, he will not be chosen, general zaluzhnyi can simply inform you of the nomenclature of weapons, it is not his task, but if general zaluzhnyi will inform you of the nomenclature of weapons, then they will give you weapons, see how it all happens, then, well, well, you got it, now you got here, and now maybe you will get here, and now you got here, and now you have to stand here to defend yourself, our main task, why were you not a party to the conflict, okay , so then the middle eastern version, and we walk in these pine trees, and here is the whole truth about these articles, well, if general zaluzhnyi addressed this article to our western partners, why so... this article was offended, for example, in

the president's office, why the president did not comment on her in any way, why did he comment, today at the press conference with ursula fonderlein, the president said that there is no stalemate in the war, we are just at the press conference, he is basically recording a video message and, well , i think that the president does not should be in controversy with the head of the command with its own armed forces, not in a polemic, just to communicate, one thing, that's what the head of command says. but i would like to hear from the supreme commander -in-chief, look, the commander-in-chief says that there may be a stalemate if there are no new weapons, the president says that there is no stalemate because ukraine is waiting for new weapons, don't go. differences in these reactions, uh, why do you always want to find differences in the positions of zelskyi and zaluzhnyi, in the positions of zelskyi, people talk about what is confrontation, people live in their own wonderful world, let them live in it, reality will always come to their house , call me, hello, i'm reality, you're still alive, very good, let's talk about what

's going on with you, the main thing is that you don't die, it's such an eternal encounter with reality, and we 're talking about real positions, here's what i read, what i said. the president to shuster , simon, what he says at the press conference, what zaluzhny says, these are identical positions, maybe there, one can naturally assume that it confrontation, but i zaluzhnyi has a nomenclature of weapons, this is not the task of the president, he is a civilian, he is as you remember, but the office of the president's office did not like shuster's article, there are some people working in the president's office who need to like the president, because this their dance, they do it, if they don't do this dance, they won't work in the president's office, in some other city, probably they should work in the president's office, because they see it as their mission, so it doesn't matter what the clerics react, ugh, reality matters, the real position of the president, the real position of the squire, they are identical to me, i don’t see any particular differences, again, i don’t see a difference for another

reason, if the president says no, we don’t have a political party the situation, we are decisively advancing now, he doesn't say that, ugh, he says what he needs. so that ukraine waits for a new technique, he names that technique, which is also mentioned in the nomenclature of those military-technical solutions that are in general zaluzhnyi's essay for ekonomist, again, the task of the president is not to look for a military-technological solution, but to look for a political one, if the president says that he does not want any negotiations and concessions with russia, this is also his position as a person who defends the territorial integrity of the state, and what should he... do as the president, to say, oh, you know, we thought here, we will surely give them crimea and donbas, well, if that is the case, if we are standing now, no, it will not be like that, any new situation will require new political and military-technological solutions, this first, second, are absolutely also for me it is obvious that i do not even know how

to formulate it correctly, that again, the position of president zelensky cannot be separated from the position of president putin. ugh. if president putin tells you that ukraine is the zhytomyr, kyiv, and chernihiv regions , as you absolutely rightly quoted here, then what can you talk to him about, he sits to himself, he has some historical delusions, he lives in them, and he feels great, listen, everything is fine with putin in general with his ideas about life, because putin also lives in the world own reality, and reality will definitely call putin someday and tell him there is such a problem, volodymyr.' that you cannot advance further, that you have economic or political problems there, what else do you want, please tell me, you have already devastated a quarter of ukraine, all the caucasians were killed at the front, all the buryats and tovintsians were killed, all the kalmyks were killed, you

wonderful russian state, what more do you want, this is what you are, what you are fighting for, you understand that you are nothing more. reach, putin will first struggle there, beat his feet, pens, and then he will go to beijing and say, let's think about how to get out of this situation, it can also be the case, the question is when, now there is certainly no such desire, we still need to live until this xijin ping summit with biden, see what they will talk about, well, that is, the situation may take major turns, but we have a chance with you, if we discuss all this, to determine what we need, we need to save the people. and we need to save the state, right? this is not even the task of the president or the office or the employee, it is ours we have a task, it follows from this that we all want something, we need to preserve the state and we need to preserve the people on ukrainian land, there will be no people on ukrainian land, there will be no state, which means that we also need to create the conditions for

total mobilization , we need to create the conditions so that we always have the opportunity to solve the territorial issue, whether total mobilization corresponds to the preservation of the people, this must be asked, well, and now another question will arise, and total mobilization in the conditions the absence of the technical series that general zaluzhny is talking about makes sense, because in total, it will be just local assaults, as the russians do, but, but, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine speaks of the need to improve mobilization as the last point from those points that he leads, he says, you need to have this, this, this, this and people who can do it, this is work, if you do not have equipment, there are not even cars to put military personnel on them, and we are holding a meeting for the purchase of cars? that will change the total mobilization will increase the number of people, well, again, is this the right approach in the war with russia, russia has unlimited

mobilization potential, moreover, i repeat once again, russia is interested in this mobilization potential from the simple point of view that putin needs to decide not only ukrainian issues, tatar , bashkir, chechen, kolmyk, dagestan, tuvin, buryat, mordovian, and so on, and he decides, by the way, i looked at these statistics in the department. mortality in the republics of russia federations, i’m generally in a joke, i’ll tell you honestly, i can’t say that the bolsheviks didn’t do this, they did a lot, they made whole nations happy, but this is what is happening now in the 21st century, this is a typical solution for me, the national question in russia, as they know how, that's why they only said, there are no people, there are no problems , killing two birds with one stone, well, by the way, for them, they are all the same peoples, these peoples are conquered, just this big, one tool is needed for it, you just have to throw them away, you know, when the buryats are killed

ukrainians, there is no better sight for the colonel of the state security committee of the soviet union from the city of leningrad, and it must also be clearly understood that he is not very concerned there if the polls of ukrainians change, their moods change, can we then talk about any will there be any other political decision or will volodymyr zelenskyy say something else? again, polls of ukrainians may change, but this is a tango, two people are dancing, ugh, if putin's mood does not change, putin's mood depends not as much from the interrogations of the russians as from his own desires, the ukrainians can wish for anything, by the way, he will want even more, you understand what it is like to compromise with putin, show him the finger, he will want to bite off your whole hand, in him it's like, by the way, in the middle east, we've seen many times already , as soon as you start the negotiation process and start saying , oh, you know, we want to give you this, and

this, and this, they always say, and you can also this , give it all, please, i, we see, you they are scared, give everything, and the negotiations do not end there, even with the russians , i think that the issue is not in the sociology of ukrainians, ukrainians can really change their opinion over time, the most important issue is in the sociology of putin, not even russians, by the way, sociology the russians are also quite interesting, you see, in principle they are not against peace, but also with the preservation of the zagarbene, but as soon as you tell them, the zagarbene will have to be given, and it is not about krymde, but about everything, at once the number of those who believe, that the war must stop decreases, this is the instinct of a nation that has always conquered foreign territories. the real imperial instinct, that we are not against peace in principle, uh, but we are what

we have in our mouth already, we will not give up, you see, this is how you can drive away a python, but if he already has a rabbit there , he won't give you a rabbit, how much putin listens to these polls of russia, i think he derides them, uh, i think that such polls, if there are any, they in one way or another ... create for us an idea that what can in principle to leave moscow, if she has any desire to talk about something at all, because then she can rely on it, if such a desire arises, i do not see this desire, according to popular opinion, well, people, you wanted crimea and donbas, we have it, everything is fine, the russian people don't suffer anymore, no, but we can't give people over to the nazis, they are all there because it's a horror, just a horror, and everyone and all russians don't want it, so in this regard, it's either - what a sociological survey in the russian

federation, it is such a signaler, well, it is also an absolute reality, if you agree with putin about the fact that people who are pro-ukrainian should be able to go to the territory under the control of ukraine, oh , you are again starting a conversation about the fact that we should give some territories to putin, he will talk to you about it, but i do not see putin has none yet. to talk, this is in the case when he has the desire, but he says: i won't give it up and that's all, we have to somehow save our people, putin won't give it up, but we are ready to talk about it , which we will not return our territories by force , let's put it this way, you don't think that we can recognize the occupation of the territory in any case, so what should we agree on with putin, if we have a truce, it's a truce. that means the borders are opened during the armistice, which means that it is obvious that everyone allows everyone to leave, russians, those who live in

the occupied territories, and ukrainians, we also have open borders, people can take them for themselves and go from some territories to this one, but it seems to me that the majority of people have long since left, those who wanted to leave, well, maybe someone doesn't like people, there are different circumstances, but again, i don't know how timely it is to talk about it, i repeat, we don't even have a price right now, that we can agree on something with the russian federation, and by the way, if a real stalemate really occurs, not the one we are talking about the possibility of stalemate, but a real stalemate, then all this can be stopped without negotiations. well, it also happened, well, what, well, the troops are standing, uh, there is no negotiation, well, they are standing, not moving, it’s just such an actual line of contact that we hold, and they hold, it can also be like this for a certain time, well, it can be anything, there is another sociology, it is a sociology that is carried out in western countries, for example, already there in america, already a larger number of people believe that that america

supports ukraine too much, and this is something that putin did not hope for, he always wanted to drag out this war. the moment when people will begin to believe that it is all a stalemate and there is nothing to support, but it is of great importance how the political elites think, since there is, as far as the technical the possibilities for this support, there are shells, weapons, all the things that the old man is talking about, two, and three, even if we imagined that people say, no, we should not support ukraine like that, ukraine should agree on peace with russia, and russia does not agree on what to do, to us, not only to ukraine, but measures, here is president zelensky. says: well, in principle , we can talk about stopping the war, and putin says, what kind of a stop to the war, demilitarization, denazification, recognition of territorial realities, well, what are we doing, you see, for all this time, with on the russian side, there were no realistic conditions for ending the war. everything that russia issued under the condition of ending the war, in fact , looked like an absolute provocation with the aim of forcing ukraine to say that it will

continue to fight. the conditions for the end of the war look completely. not so, the conditions for ending the war, especially when we talk there about the situation when the troops stand on the demarcation line, they involve compromises, especially if we were not talking about victory, but where do you see even a hint of compromise from the russian side, for russia's negotiations with ukraine - this is the capitulation of ukraine, so we move to the first option, to the option of defeat, and i do not think that this option should be considered, because you and i already said at the beginning of this conversation that russia may want the defeat of... ukraine, but there is no military-technological capability, at least for today and tomorrow, to ensure this desire, so what's the point, in any case we need to wait for a situation where everything will look completely different, and for this we need to wait, that what will be

will happen in the future and we will see how they will now react to this text of the industrious in the united states, i will solve my problems president biden with the congress, how will the congress vote, we are in a situation that is obviously developing, we are not discussing it, but the news they are leaving, but you see, mr. vitaly, thank you for the conversation, thank you to our viewers, saturday's political club was, stay with espresso, lesya vakulyuk, well, now iryna koval appears on our air, which means that she will tell you about the results of the week, iro , congratulations, you have the floor, i congratulate you too, lesya, well, in just a moment , i will really tell you about the most important thing that our team has prepared for this week, so

wait. how to win a war from valery zaluzhny and the lonely struggle of volodymyr zelenskyi, high-profile articles in the economist and time, which have already ignited discussions in ukraine and abroad. how will this affect us aid to us, and what is the situation: at the front now, about this and much more in today's edition, congratulations, i, iryna koval, am in the studio, and this is news, summaries week on the espresso tv channel. so, valery zaluzhnyi's article for the british publication the economist caused a real resonance, not only in ukrainian society.